We need Kuper back

[Kaylore]

I'm not going to go into the stats. They speak for themselves. When Kuper is off the field, we Manning takes more sacks and more hits. When he's on the field our rushing average is better and Manning is better protected. I haven't heard what happened with his ankle, but I assume it is post game swelling that hadn't gone down enough and they wanted to rest him for Baltimore. Hopefully it wasn't re-injured.

Regardless, without Kuper our team is worse. With him, our team is better. We need our best offensive lineman on the field.

[bronco militia]

nice game from Handy Manny last night

ole!

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by bronco militia

nice game from Handy Manny last night

ole!

Clady got his ass kicked too. He's been below average the past two games. And this was against one of the worst sack teams in the NFL. Good for contract talks, I guess.

[bronco militia]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Clady got his ass kicked too. He's been below average the past two games. And this was against one of the worst sack teams in the NFL. Good for contract talks, I guess.

meh...it seems things have been a mess in since Magahee went out and kuper came back too early. I thought Koppen had a tough game last week.

Manning can't seem to get Knowshow in the right spot and lately he sacks himself at least once a game. Hopefully Kupe took the night off to get some rest for the stretch run.

[Requiem]

[DENVERDUI55]

I was at game so and from my seat it was hard to see specifics but it looked like whole OL got worked over in run and pass. 2 of sacks seemed like blown assignments and let a player come free. Run game seemed like a loss of yards and whole OL collapsed or Moreno made a good run. There were also holes that the rbs missed too at times.

[dsmoot]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I'm not going to go into the stats. They speak for themselves. When Kuper is off the field, we Manning takes more sacks and more hits. When he's on the field our rushing average is better and Manning is better protected. I haven't heard what happened with his ankle, but I assume it is post game swelling that hadn't gone down enough and they wanted to rest him for Baltimore. Hopefully it wasn't re-injured.

Regardless, without Kuper our team is worse. With him, our team is better. We need our best offensive lineman on the field.

I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc. I too hope this isn't an indication of a nagging situation that will make his availability iffy into the playoffs. However, I like to look at the positive side of a bad situation. Other people get real time reps. Ramirez, Clark etc. One interesting item of note is the number of ex-Bronco OL still playing/starting for other teams. Myers, Lichtenstieger (sp) and Carlisle. I think I may have missed one.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by dsmoot

I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc.

Pretty much. Every time D Thomas goes out, I know it's only a matter of time before Wills effs up something. He looks very good for a backup for like 5 plays, but then that 6th play, the defense gives them a wrinkle, Peyton reads it and Willis doesn't and it either results in a pick or a near pick. Manning seems to have perfect chemistry with the other three primary WRs, but it's definitely not the same with Willis.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Pretty much. Every time D Thomas goes out, I know it's only a matter of time before Wills effs up something. He looks very good for a backup for like 5 plays, but then that 6th play, the defense gives them a wrinkle, Peyton reads it and Willis doesn't and it either results in a pick or a near pick. Manning seems to have perfect chemistry with the other three primary WRs, but it's definitely not the same with Willis.

Thomas is the most important player on the offense after Manning. He is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of pure ability, the way he has gotten on the same page with Manning is just scary. Yesterday he ran a couple of hot route quick slants, easily caught the ball both times against heavy blitzes. Then he goes out injured, the same situation comes up and Willis is supposed to run the quick slant, but somehow doesn't see that 7 people are going after Manning and he keeps running his corner route leading to a sack.

[Lolad]

Ramirez lets people push him back... I heard on the radio that he has a back issue. I hope Kuper is healed before the playoffs start, so he can get in some game shape.

Our OL definitely has trouble with defensive lineman crossing their face and blowing up the run game. They are waiting for the lineman to engage them on running plays and when they don't they whiff on the block resulting in a negative play.

[Mile High Salute]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Pretty much. Every time D Thomas goes out, I know it's only a matter of time before Wills effs up something. He looks very good for a backup for like 5 plays, but then that 6th play, the defense gives them a wrinkle, Peyton reads it and Willis doesn't and it either results in a pick or a near pick. Manning seems to have perfect chemistry with the other three primary WRs, but it's definitely not the same with Willis.

Yeah, Willis sucks. The offense was definitely not the same when Thomas went out. It doesn't look like Stokely is 100%, either. Him making plays in the slot would've helped tremendously. Fortunately, we were only playing the Oakland Raiders.

[cabronco]

I think it was Fox that said, Kuper had some scar tissue broken up in his ankle and was still sore from it, and they just wanted to give him a little extra time to get better. Ramirez apparently does stuggle with back issues, if its that bad I wonder how Chris Clark would be at guard, could he be any worse? Anyways sounds like we'll see Kuper back in there next game.

[kupesdad]

Originally Posted by cabronco

I think it was Fox that said, Kuper had some scar tissue broken up in his ankle and was still sore from it, and they just wanted to give him a little extra time to get better. Ramirez apparently does stuggle with back issues, if its that bad I wonder how Chris Clark would be at guard, could he be any worse? Anyways sounds like we'll see Kuper back in there next game.

The scar tissue breaking up actually created more flexibility.... there was a bit of swelling in the high ankle where he was most recently injured. He has an opportunity to rest a bit more which will be helpful.

[ZONA]

Originally Posted by cabronco

I think it was Fox that said, Kuper had some scar tissue broken up in his ankle and was still sore from it, and they just wanted to give him a little extra time to get better. Ramirez apparently does stuggle with back issues, if its that bad I wonder how Chris Clark would be at guard, could he be any worse? Anyways sounds like we'll see Kuper back in there next game.

Yeah, he was a scratch because they thought they could still win this game without him and with the 10 days off, if they held kuper out, that's 17 days off for him. Easy way to get a guy 2 weeks rest to help him heal up. They want him healthy for the Ravens.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Mile High Salute

Yeah, Willis sucks. The offense was definitely not the same when Thomas went out. It doesn't look like Stokely is 100%, either. Him making plays in the slot would've helped tremendously. Fortunately, we were only playing the Oakland Raiders.

That play was not on Willis. Even if Peyton didn't underthrow it and was leading him in on a curl the db had better position to make that int.

[CSU Husker]

Originally Posted by dsmoot

I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc. I too hope this isn't an indication of a nagging situation that will make his availability iffy into the playoffs. However, I like to look at the positive side of a bad situation. Other people get real time reps. Ramirez, Clark etc. One interesting item of note is the number of ex-Bronco OL still playing/starting for other teams. Myers, Lichtenstieger (sp) and Carlisle. I think I may have missed one.

Ryan Harris also.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by CSU Husker

Ryan Harris also.

Yep he was keeper, started just slightly over 50% of the games he could have while a bronco.

Just what I want in an oline guy. Always in the training room trying to heal.

Even when he was in his run blocking was marginal. When Franklin showed up the running game got better.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by dsmoot

I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc. I too hope this isn't an indication of a nagging situation that will make his availability iffy into the playoffs. However, I like to look at the positive side of a bad situation. Other people get real time reps. Ramirez, Clark etc. One interesting item of note is the number of ex-Bronco OL still playing/starting for other teams. Myers, Lichtenstieger (sp) and Carlisle. I think I may have missed one.

+ Polumbus and Ryan Harris

Btw, Clark gets his extra reps in jumbo packages playing a massive inline blocking TE, so Kuper's injury hasn't done anything to increase his snaps.

[Al Wilson]

Kuper is definitely a major upgrade over Ramirez. I think Elway is going to draft a guard in the first 3 rounds either way. Our offensive line is weak (other than the tackles). They get blown off and most of the pressure comes from the inside. Wouldn't mind a reciever or a tight end in the first 3 rounds as well. Need a couple more explosive skilled players in my opinion as our offense lacks that.

[baja]

We also need better depth on the O line

[enjolras]

That last sack didn't seem like a blocking problem. They knew that blitzer was coming and Manning had checked to a hot route with the protection designed to just let the blitzer come. Either the Raiders covered that hot route up or someone didn't do something right and Manning just ate it. He was having a pretty deep discussion with one of the receivers after the play.

[jutang]

I know Willis plays ST, but when I see him play I am left wondering why Caldwell can't beat this guy out, especially when Stokely was injured the week before.

[bronco militia]

8. I'm not saying there's a correlation here, but have you noticed that when Manny Ramirez is in the lineup, it seems like the Broncos give up more pressures and sacks? With Chris Kuper starting, Manning has been sacked four times in six games. With Manny? 15 times in seven games. Of course, Zane Beadles and Dan Koppen deserve their share of the blame, too.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...cos-at-raiders

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by bronco militia

8. I'm not saying there's a correlation here, but have you noticed that when Manny Ramirez is in the lineup, it seems like the Broncos give up more pressures and sacks? With Chris Kuper starting, Manning has been sacked four times in six games. With Manny? 15 times in seven games. Of course, Zane Beadles and Dan Koppen deserve their share of the blame, too.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...cos-at-raiders

You could have argued better pass rushers in those games (JJ Watt, for Example) but last night's game blew up that theory because we faced one of the worst teams at sacking the QB and gave up 3.

[bronco militia]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

You could have argued better pass rushers in those games (JJ Watt, for Example) but last night's game blew up that theory because we faced one of the worst teams at sacking the QB and gave up 3.

a slippery field is a good equalizer.

I think everyone on this thread has done a nice job of pointing out several factors. Bottom line, the offense is much better with Kuper in the lineup.