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Old 11-29-2012, 06:18 PM   #1
txtebow
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Default Detroit, once the "Paris of the West" ......

Now a smoldering mess of Liberal ideas and decades of Democratic ideas in action.................................

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/11/...nly-to-obamas/


"“We are in an environment, I think, of entitlement, we’ve got a lot of people who are city workers, who for years and years, 20, 30 years, think they are entitled to a job and all that comes with it,” Bing said
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:02 PM   #2
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:05 PM   #3
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Detroit used to=Paris.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:50 PM   #4
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Detroit used to=Paris.
my thoughts exactly ...I haven been in Detroit regularly since the mid 80's ...never been the Paris of the west ..the op is a blooming idiot
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:04 AM   #5
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my thoughts exactly ...I haven been in Detroit regularly since the mid 80's ...never been the Paris of the west ..the op is a blooming idiot
Of course you didn't see Detroit as being the "Paris of the West"......by the 1980's the destructive effects of leftist policies had already eroded the city into the slum that it remains today....
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:06 AM   #6
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Of course you didn't see Detroit as being the "Paris of the West"......by the 1980's the destructive effects of leftist policies had already eroded the city into the slum that it remains today....
lol ...nice try .. Maybe for Canadians ...new york will always be the main go to city in this country followed by San Fransico
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:03 AM   #7
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Detroit used to=Paris.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archite...is_of_the_West

"In the late nineteenth century, Detroit was called the Paris of the West for its architecture and open public spaces......"

next time try something called a "search engine"...I'd recommend the one they call G-O-O-G-L-E.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:41 AM   #8
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archite...is_of_the_West

"In the late nineteenth century, Detroit was called the Paris of the West for its architecture and open public spaces......"

next time try something called a "search engine"...I'd recommend the one they call G-O-O-G-L-E.
Yeah, late 19th century early 1900's, but it's still funny.

So what was your point? A lot of US cities were in better financial shape during that period.

Are you trying to lay the blame for the decline of every US city at the feet of Democrats? Because that's also funny!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:46 PM   #9
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Are you suggesting we discard the political strategies of failed governments, and adopt the political strategies of successful governments?

I applaud your pragmatic philosophy! Too many people stick to ideals (i.e. taxes are bad, helping the poor is good) without ever questioning them. Let's look at some data,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ates_by_income

Code:
Rank     State     Politics     2009     2008     2007     2004-2006
1     Maryland     Blue     $69,272     $70,545     $68,080     $62,372
2     New Jersey     Blue     $68,342     $70,378     $67,035     $64,169
3     Connecticut     Blue     $67,034     $68,595     $65,967     $59,972
4     Alaska     Red     $66,953     $68,460     $64,333     $57,639
5     Hawaii     Blue     $64,098     $67,214     $63,746     $60,681
6     Massachusetts     Blue     $64,081     $65,401     $62,365     $56,236
7     New Hampshire     Blue     $60,567     $63,731     $62,369     $60,489
8     Virginia     Blue    $59,330     $61,233     $59,562     $55,108
    District of Columbia     Blue     $59,290     $57,936     $54,317     $47,221 (2005)[3]PDF
9     California     Blue     $58,931     $61,021     $59,948     $53,770
10     Delaware     Blue     $56,860     $57,989     $54,610     $52,214
11     Washington     Blue     $56,548     $58,078     $55,591     $53,439
12     Minnesota     Blue     $55,616     $57,288     $55,082     $57,363
13     Colorado     Blue     $55,430     $56,993     $55,212     $54,039
14     Utah     Red     $55,117     $56,633     $55,109     $55,179
15     New York     Blue     $54,659     $56,033     $53,514     $48,201
16     Rhode Island     Blue     $54,119     $55,701     $53,568     $52,003
17     Illinois     Blue     $53,966     $56,235     $54,124     $49,280
18     Nevada     Purple     $53,341     $56,361     $55,062     $50,819
19     Wyoming     Red     $52,664     $53,207     $51,731     $47,227
20     Vermont     Blue     $51,618     $52,104     $49,907     $51,622
    United States         $50,221     $52,029     $50,740     $46,242 (2005) [4]PDF
21     Wisconsin     Blue     $49,993     $52,094     $50,578     $48,874
22     Pennsylvania     Blue     $49,520     $50,713     $48,576     $47,791
23     Arizona     Red     $48,745     $50,958     $49,889     $46,729
24     Oregon     Blue     $48,457     $50,169     $48,730     $45,485
25     Texas     Red     $48,259     $50,043     $47,548     $43,425
26     Iowa     Blue     $48,044     $48,980     $47,292     $47,489
27     North Dakota     Red     $47,827     $45,685     $43,753     $43,753
28     Kansas     Red     $47,817     $50,177     $47,451     $44,264
29     Georgia     Red     $47,590     $50,861     $49,136     $46,841
30     Nebraska     Red     $47,357     $49,693     $47,085     $48,126
31     Maine     Blue     $45,734     $46,581     $45,888     $45,040
32     Indiana     Red     $45,424     $47,966     $47,448     $44,806
33     Ohio     Purple     $45,395     $47,988     $46,597     $45,837
34     Michigan     Blue     $45,255     $48,591     $47,950     $47,064
35     Missouri     Red     $45,229     $46,867     $45,114     $44,651
36     South Dakota     Red     $45,043     $46,032     $43,424     $44,624
37     Idaho     Red     $44,926     $47,576     $46,253     $46,395
38     Florida     Purple     $44,736     $47,778     $47,804     $44,448
39     North Carolina     Red     $43,674     $46,549     $44,670     $42,061
40     New Mexico     Blue     $43,028     $43,508     $41,452     $40,827
41     Louisiana     Red     $42,492     $43,733     $40,926     $37,943
42     South Carolina     Red     $42,442     $44,625     $43,329     $40,822
43     Montana     Red     $42,322     $43,654     $43,531     $38,629
44     Tennessee     Red     $41,725     $43,614     $42,367     $40,676
45     Oklahoma     Red     $41,664     $42,822     $41,567     $40,001
46     Alabama     Red     $40,489     $42,666     $40,554     $38,473
47     Kentucky     Red     $40,072     $41,538     $40,267     $38,466
48     Arkansas     Red     $37,823     $38,815     $38,134     $37,420
49     West Virginia     Red     $37,435     $37,989     $37,060     $37,227
50     Mississippi     Red     $36,646     $37,790     $36,338     $35,261

I put the 2011 numbers through excel, here are my findings:

Blue State Median Income: $55,020
US Median Income: $50,502
Red State Median Income: $45,325



Note that "median income" is much more forgiving for Red States than per-capita income, which you can view here. In red states it appears wealth is not only more rare, it's also concentrated in fewer hands.

Last edited by Blart; 11-29-2012 at 09:23 PM..
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blart View Post
Are you suggesting we discard the political strategies of failed governments, and adopt the political strategies of successful governments?

I applaud your pragmatic philosophy! Too many people stick to ideals (i.e. taxes are bad, helping the poor is good) without ever questioning them. Let's look at some data,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ates_by_income

Code:
Rank     State     Politics     2009     2008     2007     2004-2006
1     Maryland     Blue     $69,272     $70,545     $68,080     $62,372
2     New Jersey     Blue     $68,342     $70,378     $67,035     $64,169
3     Connecticut     Blue     $67,034     $68,595     $65,967     $59,972
4     Alaska     Red     $66,953     $68,460     $64,333     $57,639
5     Hawaii     Blue     $64,098     $67,214     $63,746     $60,681
6     Massachusetts     Blue     $64,081     $65,401     $62,365     $56,236
7     New Hampshire     Blue     $60,567     $63,731     $62,369     $60,489
8     Virginia     Blue    $59,330     $61,233     $59,562     $55,108
    District of Columbia     Blue     $59,290     $57,936     $54,317     $47,221 (2005)[3]PDF
9     California     Blue     $58,931     $61,021     $59,948     $53,770
10     Delaware     Blue     $56,860     $57,989     $54,610     $52,214
11     Washington     Blue     $56,548     $58,078     $55,591     $53,439
12     Minnesota     Blue     $55,616     $57,288     $55,082     $57,363
13     Colorado     Blue     $55,430     $56,993     $55,212     $54,039
14     Utah     Red     $55,117     $56,633     $55,109     $55,179
15     New York     Blue     $54,659     $56,033     $53,514     $48,201
16     Rhode Island     Blue     $54,119     $55,701     $53,568     $52,003
17     Illinois     Blue     $53,966     $56,235     $54,124     $49,280
18     Nevada     Purple     $53,341     $56,361     $55,062     $50,819
19     Wyoming     Red     $52,664     $53,207     $51,731     $47,227
20     Vermont     Blue     $51,618     $52,104     $49,907     $51,622
    United States         $50,221     $52,029     $50,740     $46,242 (2005) [4]PDF
21     Wisconsin     Blue     $49,993     $52,094     $50,578     $48,874
22     Pennsylvania     Blue     $49,520     $50,713     $48,576     $47,791
23     Arizona     Red     $48,745     $50,958     $49,889     $46,729
24     Oregon     Blue     $48,457     $50,169     $48,730     $45,485
25     Texas     Red     $48,259     $50,043     $47,548     $43,425
26     Iowa     Blue     $48,044     $48,980     $47,292     $47,489
27     North Dakota     Red     $47,827     $45,685     $43,753     $43,753
28     Kansas     Red     $47,817     $50,177     $47,451     $44,264
29     Georgia     Red     $47,590     $50,861     $49,136     $46,841
30     Nebraska     Red     $47,357     $49,693     $47,085     $48,126
31     Maine     Blue     $45,734     $46,581     $45,888     $45,040
32     Indiana     Red     $45,424     $47,966     $47,448     $44,806
33     Ohio     Purple     $45,395     $47,988     $46,597     $45,837
34     Michigan     Blue     $45,255     $48,591     $47,950     $47,064
35     Missouri     Red     $45,229     $46,867     $45,114     $44,651
36     South Dakota     Red     $45,043     $46,032     $43,424     $44,624
37     Idaho     Red     $44,926     $47,576     $46,253     $46,395
38     Florida     Purple     $44,736     $47,778     $47,804     $44,448
39     North Carolina     Red     $43,674     $46,549     $44,670     $42,061
40     New Mexico     Blue     $43,028     $43,508     $41,452     $40,827
41     Louisiana     Red     $42,492     $43,733     $40,926     $37,943
42     South Carolina     Red     $42,442     $44,625     $43,329     $40,822
43     Montana     Red     $42,322     $43,654     $43,531     $38,629
44     Tennessee     Red     $41,725     $43,614     $42,367     $40,676
45     Oklahoma     Red     $41,664     $42,822     $41,567     $40,001
46     Alabama     Red     $40,489     $42,666     $40,554     $38,473
47     Kentucky     Red     $40,072     $41,538     $40,267     $38,466
48     Arkansas     Red     $37,823     $38,815     $38,134     $37,420
49     West Virginia     Red     $37,435     $37,989     $37,060     $37,227
50     Mississippi     Red     $36,646     $37,790     $36,338     $35,261

I put the 2011 numbers through excel, here are my findings:

Blue State Median Income: $55,020
US Median Income: $50,502
Red State Median Income: $45,325



Note that "median income" is much more forgiving for Red States than per-capita income, which you can view here. In red states it appears wealth is not only more rare, it's also concentrated in fewer hands.
And this entire post is done under the fallacy THAT THOSE WHO HAPPEN TO RESIDE IN A STATE THAT IS MAJORITY BLUE, ALL TEND TO FAVOR DEMOCRATIC POLICIES. Those who have earned their own wealth tend to be fiscally conservative.....states such as CA and NY are full of "takers" hence HIGH TAXES, HIGH COSTS of LIVING and a steady influx of immigrants (illegal and legal) that tend to vote for handouts..it's NOT the wealthy in those BLUE STATES voting for higher taxes and more government programs........AND WHEN YOU TOO GREAT OF A PERCENTAGE OF TAKERS YOU GETS THE RESULTS THAT WE SEE IN TOWNS LIKE DETROIT.

Last edited by txtebow; 11-30-2012 at 06:11 AM..
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blart View Post
Are you suggesting we discard the political strategies of failed governments, and adopt the political strategies of successful governments?

I applaud your pragmatic philosophy! Too many people stick to ideals (i.e. taxes are bad, helping the poor is good) without ever questioning them. Let's look at some data,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ates_by_income

Code:
Rank     State     Politics     2009     2008     2007     2004-2006
1     Maryland     Blue     $69,272     $70,545     $68,080     $62,372
2     New Jersey     Blue     $68,342     $70,378     $67,035     $64,169
3     Connecticut     Blue     $67,034     $68,595     $65,967     $59,972
4     Alaska     Red     $66,953     $68,460     $64,333     $57,639
5     Hawaii     Blue     $64,098     $67,214     $63,746     $60,681
6     Massachusetts     Blue     $64,081     $65,401     $62,365     $56,236
7     New Hampshire     Blue     $60,567     $63,731     $62,369     $60,489
8     Virginia     Blue    $59,330     $61,233     $59,562     $55,108
    District of Columbia     Blue     $59,290     $57,936     $54,317     $47,221 (2005)[3]PDF
9     California     Blue     $58,931     $61,021     $59,948     $53,770
10     Delaware     Blue     $56,860     $57,989     $54,610     $52,214
11     Washington     Blue     $56,548     $58,078     $55,591     $53,439
12     Minnesota     Blue     $55,616     $57,288     $55,082     $57,363
13     Colorado     Blue     $55,430     $56,993     $55,212     $54,039
14     Utah     Red     $55,117     $56,633     $55,109     $55,179
15     New York     Blue     $54,659     $56,033     $53,514     $48,201
16     Rhode Island     Blue     $54,119     $55,701     $53,568     $52,003
17     Illinois     Blue     $53,966     $56,235     $54,124     $49,280
18     Nevada     Purple     $53,341     $56,361     $55,062     $50,819
19     Wyoming     Red     $52,664     $53,207     $51,731     $47,227
20     Vermont     Blue     $51,618     $52,104     $49,907     $51,622
    United States         $50,221     $52,029     $50,740     $46,242 (2005) [4]PDF
21     Wisconsin     Blue     $49,993     $52,094     $50,578     $48,874
22     Pennsylvania     Blue     $49,520     $50,713     $48,576     $47,791
23     Arizona     Red     $48,745     $50,958     $49,889     $46,729
24     Oregon     Blue     $48,457     $50,169     $48,730     $45,485
25     Texas     Red     $48,259     $50,043     $47,548     $43,425
26     Iowa     Blue     $48,044     $48,980     $47,292     $47,489
27     North Dakota     Red     $47,827     $45,685     $43,753     $43,753
28     Kansas     Red     $47,817     $50,177     $47,451     $44,264
29     Georgia     Red     $47,590     $50,861     $49,136     $46,841
30     Nebraska     Red     $47,357     $49,693     $47,085     $48,126
31     Maine     Blue     $45,734     $46,581     $45,888     $45,040
32     Indiana     Red     $45,424     $47,966     $47,448     $44,806
33     Ohio     Purple     $45,395     $47,988     $46,597     $45,837
34     Michigan     Blue     $45,255     $48,591     $47,950     $47,064
35     Missouri     Red     $45,229     $46,867     $45,114     $44,651
36     South Dakota     Red     $45,043     $46,032     $43,424     $44,624
37     Idaho     Red     $44,926     $47,576     $46,253     $46,395
38     Florida     Purple     $44,736     $47,778     $47,804     $44,448
39     North Carolina     Red     $43,674     $46,549     $44,670     $42,061
40     New Mexico     Blue     $43,028     $43,508     $41,452     $40,827
41     Louisiana     Red     $42,492     $43,733     $40,926     $37,943
42     South Carolina     Red     $42,442     $44,625     $43,329     $40,822
43     Montana     Red     $42,322     $43,654     $43,531     $38,629
44     Tennessee     Red     $41,725     $43,614     $42,367     $40,676
45     Oklahoma     Red     $41,664     $42,822     $41,567     $40,001
46     Alabama     Red     $40,489     $42,666     $40,554     $38,473
47     Kentucky     Red     $40,072     $41,538     $40,267     $38,466
48     Arkansas     Red     $37,823     $38,815     $38,134     $37,420
49     West Virginia     Red     $37,435     $37,989     $37,060     $37,227
50     Mississippi     Red     $36,646     $37,790     $36,338     $35,261

I put the 2011 numbers through excel, here are my findings:

Blue State Median Income: $55,020
US Median Income: $50,502
Red State Median Income: $45,325



Note that "median income" is much more forgiving for Red States than per-capita income, which you can view here. In red states it appears wealth is not only more rare, it's also concentrated in fewer hands.
It's not all red & blue. Every state is a shade of purple. Federal handouts to the more red states make poverty worse, and makes the voters more red. It's getting really divisive in the south because the dependents to workers ratio is much higher. We see the problems growing worse every day. Welfare dependency is contagious in poor communities and it becomes addictive.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blart View Post
Are you suggesting we discard the political strategies of failed governments, and adopt the political strategies of successful governments?

I applaud your pragmatic philosophy! Too many people stick to ideals (i.e. taxes are bad, helping the poor is good) without ever questioning them. Let's look at some data,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ates_by_income

Code:
Rank     State     Politics     2009     2008     2007     2004-2006
1     Maryland     Blue     $69,272     $70,545     $68,080     $62,372
2     New Jersey     Blue     $68,342     $70,378     $67,035     $64,169
3     Connecticut     Blue     $67,034     $68,595     $65,967     $59,972
4     Alaska     Red     $66,953     $68,460     $64,333     $57,639
5     Hawaii     Blue     $64,098     $67,214     $63,746     $60,681
6     Massachusetts     Blue     $64,081     $65,401     $62,365     $56,236
7     New Hampshire     Blue     $60,567     $63,731     $62,369     $60,489
8     Virginia     Blue    $59,330     $61,233     $59,562     $55,108
    District of Columbia     Blue     $59,290     $57,936     $54,317     $47,221 (2005)[3]PDF
9     California     Blue     $58,931     $61,021     $59,948     $53,770
10     Delaware     Blue     $56,860     $57,989     $54,610     $52,214
11     Washington     Blue     $56,548     $58,078     $55,591     $53,439
12     Minnesota     Blue     $55,616     $57,288     $55,082     $57,363
13     Colorado     Blue     $55,430     $56,993     $55,212     $54,039
14     Utah     Red     $55,117     $56,633     $55,109     $55,179
15     New York     Blue     $54,659     $56,033     $53,514     $48,201
16     Rhode Island     Blue     $54,119     $55,701     $53,568     $52,003
17     Illinois     Blue     $53,966     $56,235     $54,124     $49,280
18     Nevada     Purple     $53,341     $56,361     $55,062     $50,819
19     Wyoming     Red     $52,664     $53,207     $51,731     $47,227
20     Vermont     Blue     $51,618     $52,104     $49,907     $51,622
    United States         $50,221     $52,029     $50,740     $46,242 (2005) [4]PDF
21     Wisconsin     Blue     $49,993     $52,094     $50,578     $48,874
22     Pennsylvania     Blue     $49,520     $50,713     $48,576     $47,791
23     Arizona     Red     $48,745     $50,958     $49,889     $46,729
24     Oregon     Blue     $48,457     $50,169     $48,730     $45,485
25     Texas     Red     $48,259     $50,043     $47,548     $43,425
26     Iowa     Blue     $48,044     $48,980     $47,292     $47,489
27     North Dakota     Red     $47,827     $45,685     $43,753     $43,753
28     Kansas     Red     $47,817     $50,177     $47,451     $44,264
29     Georgia     Red     $47,590     $50,861     $49,136     $46,841
30     Nebraska     Red     $47,357     $49,693     $47,085     $48,126
31     Maine     Blue     $45,734     $46,581     $45,888     $45,040
32     Indiana     Red     $45,424     $47,966     $47,448     $44,806
33     Ohio     Purple     $45,395     $47,988     $46,597     $45,837
34     Michigan     Blue     $45,255     $48,591     $47,950     $47,064
35     Missouri     Red     $45,229     $46,867     $45,114     $44,651
36     South Dakota     Red     $45,043     $46,032     $43,424     $44,624
37     Idaho     Red     $44,926     $47,576     $46,253     $46,395
38     Florida     Purple     $44,736     $47,778     $47,804     $44,448
39     North Carolina     Red     $43,674     $46,549     $44,670     $42,061
40     New Mexico     Blue     $43,028     $43,508     $41,452     $40,827
41     Louisiana     Red     $42,492     $43,733     $40,926     $37,943
42     South Carolina     Red     $42,442     $44,625     $43,329     $40,822
43     Montana     Red     $42,322     $43,654     $43,531     $38,629
44     Tennessee     Red     $41,725     $43,614     $42,367     $40,676
45     Oklahoma     Red     $41,664     $42,822     $41,567     $40,001
46     Alabama     Red     $40,489     $42,666     $40,554     $38,473
47     Kentucky     Red     $40,072     $41,538     $40,267     $38,466
48     Arkansas     Red     $37,823     $38,815     $38,134     $37,420
49     West Virginia     Red     $37,435     $37,989     $37,060     $37,227
50     Mississippi     Red     $36,646     $37,790     $36,338     $35,261

I put the 2011 numbers through excel, here are my findings:

Blue State Median Income: $55,020
US Median Income: $50,502
Red State Median Income: $45,325



Note that "median income" is much more forgiving for Red States than per-capita income, which you can view here. In red states it appears wealth is not only more rare, it's also concentrated in fewer hands.
lets just skip to Detroit city ummk its a mes compared to of course other cities like it, in case you was going to go pull up stats for some 2 bit town thats barley a city
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:06 AM   #13
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:32 PM   #14
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I think they must be talking about Paris, Texas...
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:35 PM   #15
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Now a smoldering mess of Liberal ideas and decades of Democratic ideas in action.................................


Because the republicans have NEVER supported offshoring manufacturing or outsourcing jobs.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:18 PM   #16
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dunno what to do with Detroit perhaps we can sell the city to china or korea or japan they could use the space to make a new giant size golf course
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:53 PM   #17
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Detroit tries to file bankruptcy...meanwhile, the suburbs are trying to erect walls to keep the "diversity" out of their 'burbs.............http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/07/...ut-detroiters/

"Prosperous suburbs surrounding Detroit — and even the struggling enclaves within — are working to distance themselves from a city in financial ruin.
In Hamtramck, one City Council candidate is taking that idea to the extreme.
Richard Fabiszak has proposed that Hamtramck build a 12 or 14-foot wall around the city, keeping out Detroiters, and requiring state-issued identification to get in."
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:51 AM   #18
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Detroit tries to file bankruptcy...meanwhile, the suburbs are trying to erect walls to keep the "diversity" out of their 'burbs.............http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/07/...ut-detroiters/

"Prosperous suburbs surrounding Detroit — and even the struggling enclaves within — are working to distance themselves from a city in financial ruin.
In Hamtramck, one City Council candidate is taking that idea to the extreme.
Richard Fabiszak has proposed that Hamtramck build a 12 or 14-foot wall around the city, keeping out Detroiters, and requiring state-issued identification to get in."
And here we go again with outsiders making claims they know nothing about. This has nothing to do with being against "diversity", as Hamtramck is about as diverse as it gets. HUGE middle eastern population there and a broad, diverse ethnic base that is embraced in that city.

Learn what you're talking about first. Maybe visit the city a time or two.

Then talk.

Otherwise you look like the idiot you are.
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Old 07-20-2013, 07:30 PM   #19
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This thread is dilrods.....

language filters sucks, Orange Mane.... thumbs down
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:58 AM   #20
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...G0002957&clsrd

The finger-pointing for Detroit’s decades of decline usually starts with the 1967 race riots. High pensions for unionized workers get its share of the blame, as does the global economic trends that upended the auto industry. Meanwhile, racial politics and white flight to the suburbs rightly earn a place as a driver of the city’s blight.

But so much focus on what happened can leave behind the “who.” Yes, a confluence of economic and cultural forces unquestionably led to Detroit‘s decline and its filing, on Thursday, for the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States. But Detroit also failed as a city because of the leaders who failed Detroit.

Some names are obvious. There is former mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, who could face 20 years in prison after being convicted for crimes such as extortion, bribery and racketeering. Obviously, decades of decline preceded the “hip-hop mayor,” but the corruption of his tenure certainly didn’t help. While Kilpatrick was in office, Detroit’s credit ratings returned to junk status.

There is Coleman Young, the combative five-term mayor who led the city for what Daniel Okrent has called, in Time, a “corrosive two-decade rule of a black politician who cared more about retribution than about resurrection.” Though Young’s tenure is caught up in racial divisiveness that some believe make him misunderstood, it’s clear he stayed in office for far too long, did little to try and mend fences broken down along racial lines, and led the city when its debt rating first reached junk status



YOU GET WHAT YOU ELECT.AMERICA IS NEXT
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:46 AM   #21
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...G0002957&clsrd

The finger-pointing for Detroit’s decades of decline usually starts with the 1967 race riots. High pensions for unionized workers get its share of the blame, as does the global economic trends that upended the auto industry.
The idea of a right to live for upwards of 40 years for free of a pension from an old job is preposterous. People need to shake out of the idea. Social Security is meant to be supplemental, which is why it's called supplemental. It's not supposed to be lived off of to the exclusion of all else.

Such programs were put into place when people lived much shorter lives than they do now. You simply cannot have tens of millions living off the dole for free and float an economy and medical system. If you can work, you need to be.

If you work for a city government, for example, and retire in 1990, you should not be entitled to live off the dole until you die in 2030. Ridiculous idea. Mooching. Destructive.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:19 AM   #22
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The idea of a right to live for upwards of 40 years for free of a pension from an old job is preposterous. People need to shake out of the idea. Social Security is meant to be supplemental, which is why it's called supplemental. It's not supposed to be lived off of to the exclusion of all else.

Such programs were put into place when people lived much shorter lives than they do now. You simply cannot have tens of millions living off the dole for free and float an economy and medical system. If you can work, you need to be.

If you work for a city government, for example, and retire in 1990, you should not be entitled to live off the dole until you die in 2030. Ridiculous idea. Mooching. Destructive.
After Jack Welch retired from General Electric it wasn’t until a divorce settlement forced the disclosure of his retirement benefits package that anyone took any notice. At that time, the scandal surrounding Mr. Welch was that his perquisites were valued at $2.5 million a year, and included luxuries such as the use of an $80,000-per-month Manhattan apartment owned by the company, court-side seats to the New York Knicks and U.S. Open, seating at Wimbledon, box seats at Red Sox and Yankees baseball games, country club fees, security services and restaurant bills. No one at the time of his departure had valued Mr. Welch’s full retirement package either, which – at almost $420 million – dwarfs the perks package that Mr. Welch ultimately relinquished.
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/corpgov...en-parachutes/
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:33 PM   #23
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Teacher Upset She Can't Retire at 47

MEA member says reform bill calling for teachers to contribute minimally to retirement is unfair

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Terri List says she would tell her students not to become a teacher in Michigan.

Why?

One of the reasons is because the Saginaw Township Community School District English teacher won’t be able to retire at age 47 as she has hoped.
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“Wow. They have reached the politicians’ level of entitlement,” Drolet said. “She thinks she is entitled to retire at 47? Holy smokes. I don’t know what more to say to that. A government employee thinking that 47 is a reasonable expectation to retire shows just how deep inside their own bubble they live, insulated from the real world.”
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Charles Owens, president of the Michigan chapter of the National Federation of Independent Business, said tongue-in-cheek that List was “spot on” in her complaint.

“If you want to retire if you are 47, apparently teaching is not the place to go,”


Why should a 66 year old private worker pay taxes to take care of these public retirees 20 years younger? In this case, the teacher would be getting $60,000 the first year of retirement and it goes up 3% every year.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:38 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
The idea of a right to live for upwards of 40 years for free of a pension from an old job is preposterous. People need to shake out of the idea. Social Security is meant to be supplemental, which is why it's called supplemental. It's not supposed to be lived off of to the exclusion of all else.

Such programs were put into place when people lived much shorter lives than they do now. You simply cannot have tens of millions living off the dole for free and float an economy and medical system. If you can work, you need to be.

If you work for a city government, for example, and retire in 1990, you should not be entitled to live off the dole until you die in 2030. Ridiculous idea. Mooching. Destructive.


Do you really think there are more than an extremely tiny minority of folks that live 40 years in retirement?

Minimum retirement age for most pensions (private or public) is at or around 55+ for people who are at or near retirement now (most plans have a sliding scale, much like SS). The current federal requirement is 57 years. The current CO minimum is either 55 WITH 30 years of service, or any age if you have 35 years of service (and considering most people wouldn't start a career path until early 20 that means between 55-60 years old.

Retire before then and most pension plans are void.

And, most pension plans have a minimum year of service requirement and a differing benefit amount depending on years of service.

And, most pensions plans either readjust age/service restrictions periodically as life expediency improves (i.e. CO), or have a built in age formula based on birth date (i.e. the federal pension plan)

Also, many state employees (CO being one) and federal employes do NOT get Social Security benefits/credit for the years served with the state.

The idea that there is some huge number of people living off pensions for 40 years of retirement is absurd. The only people who live that long on retirement are the small minority that live into their mid 90s and beyond.
Average mortality of current retirees is still in the low 70s, with typical full retirement benefits (SS and/or pensions) only kicking if you retire at 60+.
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:33 PM   #25
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The idea of a right to live for upwards of 40 years for free of a pension from an old job is preposterous. People need to shake out of the idea. Social Security is meant to be supplemental, which is why it's called supplemental. It's not supposed to be lived off of to the exclusion of all else.

Such programs were put into place when people lived much shorter lives than they do now. You simply cannot have tens of millions living off the dole for free and float an economy and medical system. If you can work, you need to be.

If you work for a city government, for example, and retire in 1990, you should not be entitled to live off the dole until you die in 2030. Ridiculous idea. Mooching. Destructive.
Agree and Disgree here:

1. Pensions were a no-brainer, makes sense, no-can-fail employment perk when your local industry dominated their market. When you don't, when you lose so much market share you need bailouts, those Pension all of the sudden become a nail in your coffin. I don't see it as mooching, but retirees had to see the slow train coming doen the tracks and realize they may have to restructure their packages.

2. Social Security, IMHO, should be a true safety net program, and provide the meekest, most vulnerable of our elders to a dignified end to their lives.. it should not be pension for every American, Americans should be incented to save for their own retirement (which most do) and only of last resort get SS money.
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