View Single Post
Old 10-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #26
Ring of Famer
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
Meh. Anyone can.

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 34,492


Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
Objectively, it is. This is not to say that we will achieve perfection (fat chance with an inherently flawed starting position), but do you deny that modern Western society is better than those societies that came before and those societies that still cling to "traditional" ideas like monarchy and theocracy?
There's a fundamental difference in opinion here... a Conservative believes that modern free-Western Society was an improvement because of the principles it was built on. Private property and incentive driven by free markets. And we'd argue that the move toward centralized command-and-control economies is a move to something that more resembles the old nobility/monarchy system that what we have today.

In sympathetic terms, a Conservative believes in conserving what he/she believes are the strengths handed down to us through 'tradition.' You and I didn't create individual property rights or market freedom. We were given that via tradition. We only really choose which direction to take it from here.

You are correct here. What you describe is, again, exactly what has happened throughout history. The only way to improve ourselves is not to stick to things dogmatically, but to always be examining, testing and striving to improve based on evidence. Saying you won't break with tradition simply because it's tradition is foolhardy.
I didn't say you can't break tradition. Just that it ought to be very well reasoned. As Westerners, living in the wealthiest, most opportunity-rich population in the world, we should err on the side of caution when it comes to demanding significant change in areas where we obviously excel in the grand scheme of things.

This does not mean we should reject tradition simply for being tradition either.

Conservatives tend to stick to idea not because they can be objectively shown to be better, but simply because they are viewed as traditional. The proof is in the pudding on this. Take marriage for example. What's the argument against gay marriage? That traditional marriage is better. Why? Because God said so.
That is a tendency. But no more so than it is for the 'progressive' to automatically discount some very essential systems and beliefs handed to us via tradition. Both sides need to lean more on caution and reason.

Nevermind for a moment that the modern form of marriage in the U.S. is anything BUT historically traditional, nor does it resemble what the Bible laid out, nor does God exist. Conservatives latch on to the one man+one woman definition of marriage simply because they believe it is traditional, which is what they really mean when they say "because God said so".
Well, there's a little more reason to it than that. At least for some. Nothing is PROVEN to be better for the next generation than to be raised in a prototypical nuclear family with mom and dad around and involved. The NBA "Daddy Who?" Parenting model is a 'change' and a definite distinction from the past (at least in scale) and there's pretty good indication that it's destroying whole sections of our civilization. That's not necessarily a reason to oppose Gay Marriage or single parenthood. There are plenty of kids out there desperate for anyone who cares, whose life will be made better by anyone who does care, regardless of race or sexual orientation.

But the larger 'Progressive' argument of "whatever's new or different goes", is viewed with suspicion by Conservatives. And it's not hard to see why.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote