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Old 05-08-2014, 01:23 PM   #194
Hulamau
Polynesian Paralysis
 
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Malik Jackson
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[QUOTE=broncosteven;4104767]Back in the mid to early 90's they came out with Immetrex for Migraines and the only way you could take it was with a needle. they had an elaborate injection system that hurt like ****. You had to put the cartridge into a box that had a plastic button on the top that only worked some times. So if you had a bad enough migraine to take this stuff you had to go through all these motions just to load the device then when you had the courage to hit the button it rarely went off and you had to play with the cartridge and get your courage back up again because it hurt like hell when it did go off and pound that needle into your leg.

I finally learned how to break the cartridge open and figured out how to just push it in by myself, much easier to pinch some thigh skin and slowly push it rather than go through the Russian Roulette of the spring pounding the needle in and pushing all the meds in at once.


Kaylore, glad to hear you dont have any tumor issues to deal with and got the green light for Testosterone replacement.

However Buddy, that every two week dosing of Injectable testosterone cypionate or proprionate is typical of misinformed docs simply using the out of date dosing instructions from the package insert of those injectable testo formulas

This is a good example of the dilemma many of us who have worked in this area for a long while have predicted would happen once Big Pharma got into the swing more of promoting more testosterone testing and repletion. So many knowledgable docs who fully understand this area of medicine have realized and discussed that this would surely happen when more very well-meaning, caring and no doubt otherwise intelligent and excellent physicians would start prescribing testosterone in droves for their patients with low T, but with having only the most rudimentary and misinformed information on how to manage such patients since they never learned anything about this in medical school and have, for teh most part, not done much, if any, new training and certification in BHRT therapy.

But at least the AMA ( American Medical Association) and CME (continuing medical education credit) approved training conferences and symposiums being held frequently now all over the over a dozen times in the US each year are always packed to the gills now with so many existing MDs from many specialties coming repeatedly to these conferences to fill in this big hole in their medical education they got in Med School.

The reason the drug company package insert for injectable testosterone settles on a ridiculous two weeks dosing is because the drug companies figured that was as frequent as they could get most men to inject themselves IM with such a needle and that most would agree to stop by their docs office for injections if they only had to stop by twice a month for a quick shot and thus allowing the doc another small cut on the deal for administering the injections .. a win-win for everyone but the patient!

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the eminent logic of at least trying as close as is feasible to follow your own bodies daily circadian production cycle of endogenous testosterone!!

As such, a 200mg every two week injection gives you a huge physiologic overdose at first with peak levels within a couple days many times over your optimal range (you might feel like Arnold in pumping iron for a few days or Jack the ripper in need of a dose of salt peter :-) and then gradually your levels will fall back to a more optimal point for a brief while before sinking into a deficient state for the last 4 to 5 days of the two weeks period where your energy and libido flag again.

So in essence, this dosing regimen puts you on a slow two week roller coaster of testosterone levels rather than more closely mimicking your natural daily swings in testosterone which follows a more natural circadian rhythm.

Often times, guys under sixty will do much better with a compounded topical testosterone formula you apply twice a day that gives you robust testo levels but always stays pretty much within the optimal physiologic range, yet without the wide swings from supra-physiological overdose at the beginning of week one after each injection to gradually back to a deficiency state where you feel lousy again the last part of week two. It makes no sence, but thats what the package insert says so like lemmings many docs just jfollow the herd off the cliff, and understandalbly.

If you cant absorb topically for one reason or another and for some there is a good reason they may not, then taking the injections in much smaller twice a week SUB-CUTANEOUS injection dose, dividing in your case a 200mg bi-weekly Intra-muscular doses into four 50mg Sub-cutaneous doses ( around the belly button area and the sides of the hips area rotating areas frequently) give far more stable and uniform 24hour daily levels of testosterone and is by far the best why to do injectable testosterone.

Some doc with do a mix of cypionate with longer acting enanthate testosterone for a two week shot that gives a little better blend of both shorter and longer acting testosterone formulas to better fill in the peaks and valleys of just using cypionate or proprionate by themselves every two weeks in 200mg doses.

But the twice weekly sub-cutaenous using a far shorter needle and not penetrating the muscle works fine and is much preferred by most people in the know who use injectable testosterone.

Anyway, we can discuss this more off the forum Kaylore as I noted earlier if you are interested.

Your doc sounds like a good guy and a good doc, its not surprising that like many fairly new to this he favors still the typical two week 200mg cycle. But that can really raise your estrogen levels a lot to through the body seeing such a big initial dose of Testo and then immediately triggering the aromatase enzyme function that converts what it sees as excess testosterone in the body into more estradiol and estrone .. the two main estrogen metabolites in men.

Men need a decent level of estradiol too for good health and libido, but not too much or it can shut the whole energy and libido system down too, just as can a too low Estradiol level, You never want to get below 20pg/ml of Estradiol (E2) and certainly never below 15pg/ml or you will surely get a flaccid and limp Johnson. Ideally, estradiol in men should be around 25 to 30pg/ml and no higher than 38pg/ml
Cheers!
Hulamau

Last edited by Hulamau; 05-08-2014 at 02:02 PM..
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