All hail Hercules!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco
I can take a **** in a box and mark guaranteed on it , but that doesn't mean I have a quality product. The Nazi's practiced economic socialism, period. It's was in their message and actions until the end.
Maybe we can finally put this stupidity to rest. BTW, Hitler didn't name the party. He joined it and took it over. Here's a response to that old chestnut from a poster in another forum that does all the work I am loathe to do for you. Why? Because you'll ignore it anyway:
The Nazis most resoundingly were NOT socialists by the only valid definition extant, and the verifiable evidence is absolutely unanimous and overwhelming.
William L. Shirer in THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH noted that there was little or no socialism in "National Socialism".
Thyssen (I PAID HITLER and many others) pointed out that the "marriage" of business and the National Socialist Party, despite Hitler's contempt for aristocracy and business in general, guaranteed high profits for businesses. Ironically, his steel company was seized over what amounted to a personal hassle with the hierarchy, and handed over for administration and profit to Krupp/von Bohlen, rather than being "nationalized" in the pure sense, which is what would've happened in a left wing state.
Albert Speer, the Third Reich's last Armaments Minister, in INSIDE THE THIRD REICH makes clear that he had great difficulty controlling fiefdoms and bailiwicks of various private firms well into 1944, when the war was already going to pieces. He also notes the privatization of all the formerly state-owned arsenals, even the huge ones at Suhl, Spandau, and Amberg (13 in all!).
Public education, of course, had been one of the key features of all organized states since Roman times. And National Public Health in Germany was enacted 1871-83, before Hitler was BORN, by the Bismarck government.
Hitler's state enacted NO new welfare programs, and eliminated many, sending former "loafers" to the death or work camps. Almost none qualified for military service, as the Weimar Republic had always claimed.
Hitler, of course, much like today's conservatives, attacked the Weimar government as "intrusive" and "socialist", and he HATED "Bolshevism" and "social democrats" (socialists), and proclaimed it loudly on almost every page of MEIN KAMPF.
Bullock, Toland, Heisler, and hundreds of others verify that there was no nationalization in Nazi Germany, and indeed, the general trend was in the other direction. Railroads were amalgamated and standardized for military purposes, but this had been a plan for at least 80 years!
Himmler, well before the Wannsee Conference, and after the "Night of the Long Knives", which eventuated the disposal of any and all left-sympathizing party members, including Ernst Roehm, about 1938, enunciated to a mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.): "We are of the right and of order. We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."
Here's the deal: You can hear LOTS of things, especially if listening to clowns. But every scholar clearly identifies the Nazis with the right wing, and no one serious does NOT identify them with the reactionary right wing. All the historians agree.
The inclusion of the "s" word was a clumsy but sometimes convenient leftover from a merger well described in the literature. They even used it, short term, through tracts written by the Strasser brothers, to con working men into acquiescing to the movement. For their leftist-sounding pamphlets, the Strassers were murdered. And anyone who suggested in Germany, once they took power, that Nazis were "progressive" or "leftists" would've been killed for his statement.
It's the scholarship that counts. Drunks in bars and idiots spewing madness in chat rooms are not sources of ANY kind! And the same applied to uncredentialed and unportfolioed so-called "pundits" who claim Nazis were "progressive" or "liberal", which is a huge, undocumented, insidious, and criminal lie.
No, Hitler and the Nazis were about as far from "socialists" as it is possible to be.
All the valid sources, to include the witnesses, participants, victims, scholars, observers, and anyone who has actually studied the subject matter.