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Old 02-21-2013, 09:18 PM   #56
broncosteven
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Originally Posted by errand View Post
In Bold....

Vermont has very few gun control laws. Gun dealers are required to keep a record of all handgun sales. It is illegal to carry a gun on school property or in a courthouse. State law preempts local governments from regulating the possession, ownership, transfer, carrying, registration or licensing of firearms

Vermont law does not distinguish between residents and non-residents of the state; both have the same right to carry while in Vermont. The state of Vermont permits the concealed carry of handguns without a permit.

Yes, that's right. In Vermont, you can carry a handgun concealed on your person without obtaining any kind of permit or license.


With that kind of crazy right-wing law in place, the murder rate in Vermont must be through the roof!

Oh no, it's not. The murder rate in Vermont is about 1 per 100,000 of population. That's roughly equivalent to the UK, every liberals' shining example of "common sense gun laws."

Meanwhile, in Chicago, the murder rate is about 16 per 100,000 of population. (These numbers are as of 2010.)

This despite the fact that, until very recently, Chicago completely banned the possession of handguns.

Explain how that's possible please.....
I am guessing that Cook County alone has 100 times the gang activity that Vermont does. How can you compare the issues that Chicago, a city of over 5 million people has compared to a state that is listed at having less than 700,000 people?

You would be happy to learn that just today the Conceal Carry law is being challenged here in IL.

Again I don't know how adding more guns is a deterrent.

I would not feel safe anywhere downtown while packing heat. I took the family down to the loop last month and felt safe, sure there are homeless trying to sell you street wise but the other types of pan handling have been reduced. I am actually surprised at the volume and persistence of panhandlers in CO compared to Chicago. You don't see them here outside of the loop. As long as one doesn't go into Lawndale or south of 35th street your fine. There is crime everywhere and you have to be alert but these shootings are not occuring on State Street and Jackson. These shootings are happening in gang and drug infested communities. Communities where they need more police.


I can't respond to every point. You asked what I would do to reduce gun violence, I believe that we need to be leaders and mentors at home 1st, I am glad you believe the same, but I also think we need to take it to the next level and be active in the communities as well. We cannot tell our country "Well I did my part and took care of me and my own, why should I care about others as well"? I think this is the hart of the problem, kids are having kids they do not know how to be role models or tell right from wrong. Even the kids that do grow up in 2 parent homes who should know better end up acting out and resorting to drugs and violence.

Being greedy and telling people to fend for themselves is not the solution. Expecting every person to pack heat and protect themselves because you pay too much in Taxes already is unacceptable. Do you expect the disabled an elderly to pack heat and leave there safety up to weather they can put down a perp in a purse snatching? I would rather have a trained officer who's job is public safety patrolling doing his job. I would love to see all these troops who are finally returning home have jobs in expanded police forces if they so choose. Adding police means more jobs which helps the feedback loop that is the economy.

I believe the issue you have boils down to 2 points:
1 - You were in the military (I thank you for your service BTW) and you received more training than an avg citizen or even police officer in how to use a weapon. You can't seem to change perspective and look at the issue from my POV. You keep bringing up the 2nd amendment which is fine, I am with you on guns being available in a truly free society (I don't have to like it) but what measure of ownership is enough? At what point is the gun owners cup full? 10 rounds, 30, 100? Does the public need access to Semi-auto guns? We can't get RPG's, what's up with that!

2 - You don't want to pay more tax and likely feel already your paying way too much. I think to have a society that grows we need to invest in infrastructure and address social needs. Have you ever seen the documentary "The Queen of Versailles"? At what point in the USA does a family or person have "enough" money? 325' Yacht? A G4 Jet? Couple Hundred Billion in the bank? OMG people making over $200k a year will pay more tax! The only people I know making anything near that are my Dr and my Lawyer and both are smart enough to find (or pay someone to find) the loop holes to reduce what they have to pay. I live in a nice area, the median avg income is right at $80k. How much is ever enough. I have nice cars, I want to drive them on nice roads. OMG we have to pay tax to build roads! Who knew! Do I live in fear that a team of armed intruders are going to break into my home and gun us down like the book "In Cold Blood"? Nope, if they did it would be a waste of time, unless they really want a couple old musical instruments and a wall of CD's and books.

I really don't get the fear and loathing of our neighbors. Why is it unacceptable to regulate a product that is built to kill and destroy? Is it crazy to expect our society to move past the hate and on to bigger and better things as one? I don't get why people think it is still 1791 and we are still living in a frontier where WE are brutally pushing the indiginous peoples off the continent. They NEEDED guns for true protection back then. A freaking Jaguar could jump you on your way back from town. Migrating Indians could see you as a threat to your way of life and attack. Now we just have violent crime and drug epidemics that would be better left to police and federal agencies to address. You want to buy a gun "Just incase" or to look at or target practice...fine go ahead and use up whatever money your not paying on taxes in Ammo. Do you really need a 30 round clip, can you live without the semi-auto rifle? Just consider your fellow man, some one who didn't get the breaks you or I got, everyone needs help during any point of their lives. Don't you think being involved in public service for a couple hours change the life of someone for the better?

Put some John Lennon on and give peace a chance!
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