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Old 12-25-2012, 11:37 PM   #105
SoCalBronco
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Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister View Post
Nice way to twist the facts to make Geno look bad.

Ben Roethlisberger played in the spread, too.

It's no longer the red flag it once was.

Especially since Geno has played in two different system and makes plenty of NFL caliber throws.
The system Smith plays in now was derived from the EXACT system Tim Couch played in at Kentucky in 1997 and 1998. Coach Mumme and Coach Leach attended alot of clinic lectures from LaVell Edwards and Norm Chow at BYU in the 1980s and early 1990s and often went up to BYU to soak in their ideas about the passing game. It was often siad that Mumme and Leach brought the BYU Offense "on steroids" to Kentucky, by taking what they felt were BYU's most successful plays, adding alot of new and interesting screen passes (the bubble screen became a staple in part due to its use in the late 90s at UK and also at Purdue, as did the WR middle screen and quick screen), and running it out of the shotgun, repping individual plays over and over ith a few tags here and there. They began with classic Mesh route from BYU. This was primarily a man to man beater, but they changed one route in the combo that made it deadly vs. zone by creating a triangle on the strongside that included both a horizontal stretch on the flat defender and a vertical stretch on said defender. They also blended together what was the original BYU "66" pass (their All Curl) with the BYU 67 pass (their three vertical pattern) so you would have a terrific pass that would work against all zones (Cov 2, Cov 3 and Quarters). They also took both of BYU's flood patterns, the strongside flood (65) and the weakside flood (69). They renumbered them in their offense and had the HB run an option route on their weakside flood. The weakside flood, known at UK, then T.T. and now W.V.U as "Y-Cross" was a big play waiting to happen and was very difficult for ILB's to defend because it started out looking alot like All-Curl and if they dropped too deep to choke the deep crossing route off, the TE could just sit down in the void. If he "got on top" of the MLB and made the deep cross, then the WLB would always be in a bind with the deep cross at 17-22 yards on top and the HB option route on the bottom. Whatever he does, he is wrong. The FS would also be neutralized by the outside WR's vertical. It is a beautiful three level stretch that has been a big gainer for over 20 years at various schools. Mumme and Leach expanded the BYU quick game which was the basic slant combos and hitch combos and they added the popular Y-Stick route which is prevalent in nearly all offenses. In 1997 and 1998 they ran Y-Stick so many times successfully with James Whalen (played for the Cowboys for awhile) and once teams adapted to try and overplay the stick, they added the Y-Corner route to take advantage of the overreaction. In 1998, Mumme added the "Shallow Crossing Series", which he learned from our very own Shanny. This was a great route that is still used by Air Raid teams today, including Dana Holgerson at West Virginia. Very, very versatile and great vs. all coverages, with simple rules to learn, but hard to defend.

At West Virginia, they are still runnign many of the same classic Air Raid concepts with Geno that Tim Couch ran 15 years ago. They still run the two old BYU flood routes (Y-Cross and Y-Sail) and the Shallow Crossing Series and Holgerson has also emphasized the four verticals route, which everyone runs, but they have tried to perfect it. They do not run as much of the horizontal stuff as was the case at UK (they don't rush Mesh much, except in the Red Zone), but alot of hte classic Air Raid stuff is still there (Stick is still there, Corner is still there). Holgerson has added things which the other two QBs Khan mentioned (Newton and Smith) ran alot in their offenses. We have to make a distinction between pass-first spread offenses (such as the UK/Texas Tech Air Raid) and run-first spread offenses (Urban Meyer Gun option). Smith ran literally the latter at Utah in 2003-2004, featuring the basic read option, the triple option, speed option, shovel option etc., whereas Newton ran a similar offense under Gus Malzahn at Auburn (actually Auburn's offense is not so much a style as it is a tempo, if you read Malzahn's book, his empahsis is not so much on plays, but rather how fast to play, no-huddle, etc.)

What Smith is doing now in the passing game is similar to Couch, and there is some component similar to the run stuff for Smith. Actually, what Holgerson has really done there is try to do both at once and by at once I mean in the same play. They have their "duel read" packages, where you take it a step further from simply passing from the spread when the box numbers arent favorable and running when the box numbers are favorable. Instead, what he is doing is having both a run play and a pass play in the same actual call. There is no need to audible or anything like that. The most famous example is the Y-Stick/Draw combo. They will block the draw up front, which naturally starts out looking like a pass block anyway and depending on the movement of the ILB after the snap, they hand off the draw or throw the Stick route. There is alot of duel read stuff they do. They have a pattern where the OL will all run block, three WRs will be on one side, two of which will block on the defenders one will be ready to catch a quick screen and on the single reciever side they will run an option route, so you have it all there, there's no audibling or anything so that there is no chance of being decieved by the defense. Either the defense will have two guys covering the three recievers which leaves the screen open, or they will only assign one corner to the option route with no deep safety, or they wont have people in the box, so you dont check to anything, its 3 rolled into 1, no communication needed. Just snap it and decide.

Sorry for rambling, but the point is Bob this is not an NFL style of offense, none of these are. The classic Air Raid is not NFL style, the run game aspect of what they do with Geno is not NFL style, and certainly the duel read stuff is not NFL style. Personally, I think it would be fun to try and incorporate some of these things into the NFL (you see Shanny doing some of Baylor's stuff with RGIII, at least trying as best he can to blend together his traditional attack with the RG3 college stuff), but certainly most NFL offenses will be much different for Geno and that means he won't be at a strategic advantage with these special systems like he was in college (and like Tim Couch benefitted from back in the day when no one else ran this and virtually no one, not even in the big bad SEC knew how to defend it. Look at the old Kentucky scores from the last 90s, they had weak talent and still put up alot of points on major powers...same kinda thing for Geno, although he does have some good WRs).

IMO, you would be better served drafting Tyler Wilson. Now he's NOT worthy of the No. 1 overall pick, but I think he is a first round QB talent. I think Geno isn't a first round QB talent. He's a good athlete, but I'm not seeing it as a pro QB. I'm not trying to rag on the Chiefs Bob, this is my honest opinion.
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Last edited by SoCalBronco; 12-26-2012 at 12:57 AM..
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