Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic
All the time? Ok. Lets see more examples then. All the time after decades would mean tons of examples. There's only a handful of players who can even use that term truly "elite"
Warren Moon - undrafted, refused to switch positions. Now in the Hall of Fame.
Every team in the NFL passed on Joe Montana twice.
Joey Porter was a practice squader for the Steelers, they cut him, the Ravens picked him up, cut him again, and then he wound up back with the Steelers. He since has won DPOY.
Arian Foster was an undrafted FA, he's now one of the best backs in the NFL.
Shannon Sharpe was a late 7th round pick.
The vast majority of the Broncos best offensive line players during Shanahan's tenure were late rounders and undrafted FAs.
Terrell Davis was a 7th rounder, just like Sharpe. That means ever team passed at least six times.
Tom Brady - also passed on nearly half a dozen times by every team.
Dude, this isn't even hard. We're talking about a league where Tim Couch was a former first overall pick, followed up by Akili Smith. The NFL talent evaluation process is a massive crap shoot.
Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton
That's why I asked the question. How many teams need to give up on him? How many GMs and personnel men need to say the words "he's just not a quarterback at this level" for Drek to believe that maybe, just maybe, the people who get paid to know might actually know.
1. In most professions the level of failure that GMs in the NFL show would be grounds for termination at a minimum, incarceration in some. They are far from infallible, most of them are pulling **** from their asses.
2. I'm a strong believer in what John Madden once said when asked about how great a "genius" Bill Belichick is - that if it wasn't for the NFL these guys would be teaching PE, so it's pretty hard to call 'em a genius when that's the alternative.
A success rate a little better than 50/50 on employee evaluation would be shockingly awful in most circles of highly skilled professionals. That's the average first round success rate for GMs in the NFL.
Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster
Then again this was the same person who kept saying all last year how he was better than Cam Newton, so not too suprised
Cam Newton plays in an incredibly friendly offense to his (and Tim Tebow's) skill set, has been given all the snaps since day one, and still hasn't won ****.
Tim Tebow has been a square peg pounded into round holes from day one and he's got a division title and playoff win to his credit.
Seriously, how any Bronco fan could see last year's Wild Card round playoff game and not think that Tebow has real talent is absolutely beyond me. He carried us to a win over one of the best teams in the NFL that day with big play after big play.
The only difference between Tebow and his peer group is that the more "traditional" passer types have been allowed a much greater degree of freedom to fail as a passer. You jump on Tebow for having a 50% completion rate but that ignores:
Sam Bradford having a 53% completion rate in year two with the Rams.
Eli Manning having a 48.2% completion rate his first 9 games as a rookie and only a 52.8% completion rate in 16 games as a second year QB.
Peyton Manning only completed 56.7% of his passes as a rookie over 16 games.
Steve Young was a 53% or worse passer his first four seasons, which totaled over 30 games played.
Drew Brees was only a 55% passer his rookie season.
Needless to say, I could continue. Last season Tebow wasn't even allowed to try a real NFL offense because this staff had zero faith in him and were unwilling to even try. The previous season he had three starts against real NFL defenses that were actual real passing situations and he had a 50% completion rate, not wildly worse than many good NFL QBs today. That was a dumped into the deep end of the pool scenario with very little prep, while most of the seasons above came from QBs who had entire off-seasons of preparation with at least half, if not all, of the practice reps.
Tebow has never gotten a shot because his throwing motion is awkward, that is compounded further by him being left handed, and he spent his time in college being utilized in a spread option offense that relied heavily on his legs. Other than that its mostly negative image tied to his fan base, not his talent level.
Regardless, that is all about Tebow the passer. This thread is about Tebow the football player, being utilized in a different role. In said different role Tebow could be one of the most dynamic ball carriers in the NFL TODAY. Not a few years from now after being groomed, but next Sunday.
Mike Alstott was a very productive ball carrier. Jerome Bettis is a borderline HoF candidate. Tim Tebow has the size and power of either one of them. He could be an incredibly capable running back while his passing is developed in the off-season. If it never materializes then so be it, but he'd still be a valuable contributor to any team willing to find ways to put the ball in his hands.