Originally Posted by BroncoBuff
Abides what? I accurately cited impeccable sources that identified dangers, sounded warnings and imposed sanctions against acetaminophen-combination medications. Then Doc came in here throwing wild, over the top insults, saying I had no idea what I was talking about when 99% of what I posted was the FDA actions. He called me (the FDA data) "the most dangerous thing ever posted here."
Whatever. Admittedly some of the WebMD NSAIDs stuff he posted was eye-opening, and kappys confirmed some of those concerns. But don't forget an FDA advisory panel (experts) recommended BANNING these acetaminophen-combination drugs nearly three years ago! Yes, they recommended taking Percocet, Tylenol 3, Vicodin, etc ... OFF THE MARKET ENTIRELY!!
That is a VERY big deal. I'll betcha any sum they've never recommended aspirin be banished.
Later Doc tried to play kappys as his supporter, when in reality kappys went out of his way to provide relevant (and welcome) data and info without taking sides.
And what about this from the LANCET article last summer?! He completely avoided these very relevant points:
Sidestepping counter-points is always poor debate, especially counterpoints as powerful as these. FWIW, I think Doc is a doctor ... the CV he gurgitated is well stated. But in addition to being a doctor he's also one rude SOB. I always liked him before, but I don't get the anger and insults, and I don't appreciate them.
You are the one sidestepping arguments here. Your thread title says "don't take tylenol ever," and you recommend NSAIDs instead. While asprin and other NSAIDs have their place, they routinely cause serious problems. Read my first post. This is the point of my argument. This is the problem I have with your opinion on this matter. You have tried to shift the argument to a different effect of Asprin, particularly regarding a role in cancer prevention. I'm not debating the benifits of asprin. I'm debating the safety of properly dosed acetaminophen vs NSAIDs.
As you stated in your reason to never take tylenol: 400 deaths per year due to acetaminophen overdose
NSAIDs on the other hand: 16,000 deaths and 100,000 hospitalizations per year at standard doseages.
What part of this is not sinking in? Can you honestly not see where I might have a problem with your origninal post?
I said that tylenol is only toxic when dosed in highly excessive quantities. Kappys (an emergency medicine physician and toxicologist) said that in a healthy adult it takes around 10 grams -- 20 extra strength tablets in one dose -- to cause hepatotoxicity. I called his attention to this thread via a PM. I already knew what he would say. Shall I quote him again?
"Dr. bronc is right when it comes to NSAID's versus tylenol when taken at appropriate doses - NSAIDS cause far more side effects principally being GI bleeding which can be fatal though in most patients has a benign outcome with good management - NSAIDS can also cause a significant percentage to develop renal disease. Contrasting that with the use of normal doses of tylenol which cause some mild liver testing abnormalities of unclear significance is difficult - none of the patients in those studies developed any sort of over liver disease but over decades of use it remains a theoretical concern. Actual human data in the form of cohorts(retrospectively looking at people taking 4 grams a day) does not show evidence of liver injury
Kappys however didn't go into detail regarding the "good management" aspect of that paragraph. Quite frequently the medical management requires a significant amount of hospital resources including: ICU admission, multiple blood product transfusions, nasogastric tube, multiple IVs / central venous line, foley catheter, intravenous proton pump inhibitors, and serial labs. That's a significant amount of resources for a side effect of a properly dosed medication. There is signinficant risk for complications with the above and that doesn't even begin to account for possible endoscopic or even surgical intervention.
You personal opinion of me is just that. If your ad hominem makes you feel better, then keep after it. I won't get offended. I certainly won't call you names. I will point out if your medical opinion on this football board is dumb and/or dangerous. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but it's my honest evaluation. I would expect nothing less in return if I offered a comparable legal analysis to this football board.