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Old 12-06-2007, 09:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hogan11 View Post
Bay was being shopped based on his 2006 numbers.....2007 was not kind to Bay to say the least and it also brought him into question with the organization. "A beginning of a downturn" is quite possible with him but the main reason why he's being shopped is his salary (surprise, surprise).
If Bay was shopped last season he'd have brought back a hell of a lot more than Shoppach, Gutierrez, and Lee though. I wouldn't be surprised if this deal fell apart because the Pirates wanted a return equal to '06 Bay while the Indians wanted to pay the price for an '07 Bay.

I like what the possible return was....especially Shoppach since Paulino is wayyy overrated (He sucks).
Its not a bad return, but seeing what Miguel Cabrera and Willis just brought back you'd think Bay would be good for at least one premium prospect.

If the deal was really being assessed as equal to Bay's '06 value I could see something like Shoppach, Lee, and Andy Marte (3B prospect, killed AAA for three seasons now but has struggled with each spot of ML action, was a top 10 prospect two years back) being the return.

The lineup is actually Bay, Sanchez, LaRouche and a bunch of rotating parts
well hopefully, but then I wouldn't be surprised to see them move LaRouche in a few years when he starts making higher arbitration salaries. You basically have to ask when are the Pirates actually going to hang onto someone?

The Duke thing was due to tinkering of mechanics only.....same thing that happened to Oliver Perez when he was there. It's hard seeing new pitching coach Jim Andrews making the same kind of mistakes with a young staff that basically ruined those guys but these are the Pirates......snakebitten is a way of life @ PNC Park.
I'm still a big believer that dramatic increases in pitch counts will break an arm, but if the Pirates actually started tinkering with Dukes' mechanics after he reached the majors, well, thats just stupid. Mechanical adjustments need to either be made very early or not at all. When a pitcher is an older vet and he's trying to reinvent himself to extend his career, ok, but at that time he'll have a large amount of input in regards to those changes. Tweaking how a young guy throws at the ML level and still expecting a large workload from him is beyond dumb. All it takes is one significant mechanical mistake and your guy has a torn rotator cuff or needs tommy john.
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