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Old 12-18-2006, 06:00 PM   #24
Master___Pain
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From Bill Simmons chat.....I agree pretty much 100% with his take on this

Chat with Bill Simmons



Welcome to The Show! On Monday, The Sports Guy will drop by to chat about the Knicks-Nuggets brawl and the ensuing fallout. Simmons recently penned, Now I Can Die In Peace, which relives the years leading up to the Boston Red Sox historic championship season in 2004 and says goodbye to a lifetime of suffering. At least for now.

Bill will kick things off at 2 p.m. ET but in the meantime, you can check out The Sports Guy's website for anything you might have missed.

Buzzmaster: Bill will be joining us shortly!

Bill Simmons: Sorry im a little late - technical difficulties

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nic (Madison, WI): I watched the replay of the fight about 15 times instead of studying for my exam in an hour. I thought that Nate Robinson should have gotten a stiffer punishment for his role. What do you think?

Bill Simmons: Couldn't agree more. Nate Robinson is crazy. Just last week, he nearly got into a fight with Sebastian Telfair for the second time this season. He got in 2 separate fights with teammates last year, including a naked School Ties type fight with Malik Rose in the shower.

Bill Simmons: He clearly has Small Man's Complex. I thought he totally escalated the thing ala Ben Wallace with the Artest Melee.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Koby (New York, NY): Basically the way i see it was Melo got 15 games for sucker punching the 15th best player on the NY Knicks...terrible decision for one of the games best players.

Bill Simmons: Agreed - bad decision and it hurt all the progress he made on and off the court in 2006. At the same time, it was NOT a sucker punch. They had been jawing at one another and Collins was clearly egging him on. The problem was that Melo punched him, then backed up 75 feet like a wuss. If you're going to punch someone, don't run away afterwards ... that was a cowardly move on his part. With that said, 15 games is ludicrous.

Bill Simmons: I also don't like the precedent of punishing guys severely for sticking up for teammates. How does Melo get 15 games and Isiah gets nothing for basically being the John kreese of the situation? MSG had him on tape telling Melo, "You better not go in the paint." a minute later, his worst player cheapshots a Nuggets player. And Isiah gets off scot-free?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tim, santa monica: how is it isiah doesnt get suspended? is a lack of evidence the problem. everything ive read says he was verbally threatening anthony. also, how does this incident further cement his place as worst gm/coach in the league/history?

Bill Simmons: I think the brawl was either the highlight of the lowlight of the Isiah Era. I can't decide which one.

Bill Simmons: One other thing I loved: In the press conference, did you notice that he did the same creepy, sarcastic laugh that he did after saying that Larry Bird would be "just another good player" if he was black back in 1987? Thought that was interesting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gar (NYC): Nate was the worst type of instigator. He would step up and talk BIG, but once someone stepped up to him, he backed off. Did you see how fast he backed off Carmelo and stood besides his teammates once he realized the Nuggets were ready for a brawl?

Bill Simmons: I disagree - I thought Nate represented himself pretty well. He's 5-foot-7 for God's sake. His reverse takedown of JR Smith was pretty nice. I just think the guy is a loose cannon - he's like Stephen Jackson with small man's complex.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jesse (Hartford, CT): First 'Melo sucker punches a rookie, then he back peddles away from the skinniest man in the NBA in Jarred Jeffries, who would have blown out his knee throwing a punch. What I want to know is what Collins said to Anthony? You think he called him a snitch?

Bill Simmons: You're right, it's bad enough to backpedal 75 feet after throwing a haymaker, but backpedaling from Jared Jeffries? What was Jeffries going to do, scratch his eyes out?

Bill Simmons: One more thing: The camera angle of Melo's "punch" was deceiving, I don't think he closed his hand. It started out as a punch but ended up being more of a hard slap. If he had really punched Collins that hard, he would have broken his hand or broken Collins's jaw.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Les (Basalt, CO): It what sense does the video of Thomas warning Carmelo Anthony not to go in the paint, coupled with his response in the post-game interview, not represent "definitive information?"

Bill Simmons: Totally agree. Personally, I think Stern didn't want to suspend Isiah because that would have made it harder for Dolan to fire him. Which will be happening shortly.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan, Orlando: Bill, you said it, it's an outrage that Isiah gets no punishment, and Melo did act like a wuss. How come no one is talking about Melo merely sticking up for his boy? and the fact that it was no sucker punch? I was disappointed that Melo even apologized.

Bill Simmons: Agreed. he should have apologized for backpedaling and that's it. Watch the tape. Collins was basically begging for somebody to punch him - it was a cheap foul in the final minute of a blowout, and then he smugly talked trash afterwards and clearly called out Melo. At some point, the NBA needs to realize when people's manhood is being called into question. These are competitive guys with a ton of pride, you can't expect them to constantly turn the other cheek. isiah ordered a cheap shot, Collins delivered, and then Nate Robinson escalated everything... so Melo gets the most games? That's absurd.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jazz (NY, NY): How come we are not giving George Karl that much slack? I mean, come on, the guys leaves his starters in with a minute left and up by 20

Bill Simmons: That's the piece of this that nobody is discussing - everyone knew there was bad blood with Isiah and Karl stemming from the Larry Brown saga, it was even written about a few weeks ago. Karl is a huge Brown guy ... he left the starters in to Isiah. There's no question. I loved that. Also loved how he left with 5 seconds left as isiah gave him a death stare.

Bill Simmons: My other favorite part of the brawl - how bout 2 of the 3 refs being a 120 year old man (Dick Bavetta) and a female (Violet Palmer)? The only way that crew would have been less prepared for a brawl is if the 3rd ref was 12 years old.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- james (portland, OR): in most of these brawls players are "defending" each other. it looks to me like they just lose it once one player gets involved with another and it gets escalated out of control, but how come hockey, baseball and football can get in fights and suspensions are for 1 game or 2 games and the leagues best player gets 15 games for a single punch thrown?

Bill Simmons: Stern is trying to expunge fighting, but you cannot expect these guys not to rub each other the wrong way every once in awhile. That was NOT a bad brawl. We just live in an era of sports media right now where this stuff is instantly blown out of proportion. For instance, check out this You Tube clip of a Knicks-Lakers fight from 1988 and tell me if it's any different than what happened on Saturday night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVnlPq_kYns

Bill Simmons: There have been at least 100 fights in the last 25 years that were worse than Saturday night's fight.
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