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footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 06:41 PM

Von Miller up to 246...can he play MLB?
 
Don't look now but Von Miller has gained 9 pounds since the Senior Bowl, to 246 apparently. He was 230 just a month before the Senior Bowl, meaning he's added a whopping 16 pounds, so I'm hoping he came by it honestly, but it brings up two interesting questions...maybe three.

Can this guy play MLB? Has he lost any speed at this weight? Why wasn't he bigger in college if he can gain weight this easily?

I wasn't to interested when he weighed 230 or even 237 since people were talking about him as an OLB and we're trying to get bigger and more physical, but he ran a 4.52 and reportedly also a 4.46, which would make him a speeding bullet at MLB...if he can play there.

Thoughts?

03-08-2011 06:51 PM

Not sure if he could play MLB now, but I'm not willing to spend #2 pick to find out. He's a prototypical 3-4 OLB. While he could play in a 4-3 its a waste of his talents and it would be a waste of our pick.

rugbythug 03-08-2011 06:56 PM

Why would you take a very talented player and put him in a position to fail. He can play for us but not at MLB. I think he will be great.

TheReverend 03-08-2011 07:12 PM

I think it'd be a waste of his premier talent of edge pass rushing. Blitzing up the middle is a different ball game of mauling the guard in front of you and creating enough separation to slip through, sneaking through a pulling guard in play action passes or blown assignments.

BroncoMan4ever 03-08-2011 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 (Post 3133002)
Don't look now but Von Miller has gained 9 pounds since the Senior Bowl, to 246 apparently. He was 230 just a month before the Senior Bowl, meaning he's added a whopping 16 pounds, so I'm hoping he came by it honestly, but it brings up two interesting questions...maybe three.

Can this guy play MLB? Has he lost any speed at this weight? Why wasn't he bigger in college if he can gain weight this easily?

I wasn't to interested when he weighed 230 or even 237 since people were talking about him as an OLB and we're trying to get bigger and more physical, but he ran a 4.52 and reportedly also a 4.46, which would make him a speeding bullet at MLB...if he can play there.

Thoughts?

actually Fox prefers speed to size at the LB position. a guy like Woodyard is someone he would be very high on. his LB corps in Carolina was always in the 230-240lbs range.

cutthemdown 03-08-2011 07:25 PM

Von Miller probably only a target if we get a trade offer and move down to say around the 7th pick. I guess there could be a run on QBS and Broncos make moves down?

I just don't see it though. No team will want to part with enough picks.

Truthfully even a 5 spot drop in first round takes more then a 2nd round pick. It would have to be like the first pick in 2nd round etc or have a 4th round pick added in.

cutthemdown 03-08-2011 07:25 PM

If Broncos keep DJ then they are fine at weakside linebacker. DJ starts, Woodyard backs him up. The main problem with DJ is his style is best suited to having some physical players in front of him. Broncos dline been so soft, our small linebackers get pushed around and let the olineman get there hooks in them on the second level. TE's also.

footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primetime714 (Post 3133005)
Not sure if he could play MLB now, but I'm not willing to spend #2 pick to find out. He's a prototypical 3-4 OLB. While he could play in a 4-3 its a waste of his talents and it would be a waste of our pick.

First of all, I"m not talking about taking hiim at #2, because that's where we need to take Peterson if we want him. But if we trade down...say to 5 or 6, that's a different story. Second, he's not a "prototypical 3-4 OLB"...those guys are 6'4", 260 so he's still a little undersized. In any case I see no risk in looking at him there if we wind up drafting him. People have been saying since Al Wilson retired that we are weak up the middle and it's true. We may or not need him there, I'm simply curious if he could play there. MLB in the 4-3 defense is every bit as key a position as the OLB in a 3-4 is, maybe more so.

I'm asking if he's versitile enough to make this a legitimate option. Edge rushing pass rushers don't always pan out as OLB's in the NFL, just curious if people think he can do it in the middle as well. People are raving about this kids athleticism, so if he's that big a stud, shouldn't he be able to slide over if neeed? I like bigger interior MLB's and smaller guys on the wings in the 4-3...but obviously Fox may have other ideas.

Just food for thought...

footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3133031)
Von Miller probably only a target if we get a trade offer and move down to say around the 7th pick. I guess there could be a run on QBS and Broncos make moves down?

I just don't see it though. No team will want to part with enough picks.

Truthfully even a 5 spot drop in first round takes more then a 2nd round pick. It would have to be like the first pick in 2nd round etc or have a 4th round pick added in.[/QUOTE]
Cam Newton is the key. Somebody may fall in love with this guy enough to move up above Buffalo to get him. If so, a move down a few spots (not past 5 or 6 though) might get them another 2nd and who knows what else if there's some competition. I'm just considering all their options.

03-08-2011 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 (Post 3133035)
First of all, I"m not talking about taking hiim at #2, because that's where we need to take Peterson if we want him. But if we trade down...say to 5 or 6, that's a different story.

No, it's pretty much the same story. You'd be drafting a guy at the very top of the first round and putting him at a position which he's never played and would be unable to utilize his greatest strengths. It makes no sense to me at all.

I think you are way, way, way too wrapped up in size/speed ratios.

03-08-2011 07:36 PM

Honestly I've never understood any of the consideration for Von Miller with our first round selection. Unless we somehow magically drop out of the top ten, I would hate to be drafting him over other players who could help us more. He doesn't fit our defense and I'm sick of trying to fit square pegs into round holes. We should only be looking at the best defensive lineman or Peterson while we have this opportunity.

footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever (Post 3133025)
actually Fox prefers speed to size at the LB position. a guy like Woodyard is someone he would be very high on. his LB corps in Carolina was always in the 230-240lbs range.

All Carolina's LB's were under 240, but I hardly think we can read into that that he doesn't like size. Besides, they were 1-15 with this setup...in any case this kid's got the speed as well as size.

footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shananahan (Post 3133041)
No, it's pretty much the same story. You'd be drafting a guy at the very top of the first round and putting him at a position which he's never played and would be unable to utilize his greatest strengths. It makes no sense to me at all.

I think you are way, way, way too wrapped up in size/speed ratios.

Why do you make the determination that if he doesn't work at MLB he'd be a bust? I merely asked if people think he's capable of playing there. Say he isn't..so what? He goes back to the OLB spot then...no problem. Second, I'm not talking about the top of the draft, but somewhere around 5-7 if we traded down. Who else at #7 for example, is going to be there if we do trade down? Fairley, Dareus and Bowers are probably long gone. Miller is the fastest riser in the draft...I frankly do NOT want him. I'm merely ASKING (NOT SUGGESTING) if people think he can play there. Why? Because as someone pointed out, DJ can play the Will and right now at least it looks like Ayers is penciled in at the Sam. That leaves our gaping hole at MLB and here's a kid people say is one of the best athletes in the draft, he's fast and he's nearly 250 pounds now. What's so odd about asking if he can play that spot even if he's not done so yet? I'm sure if they wind up taking him they find the right spot for him, I'm just curious if people who have seen him play think he can play inside or not. The same question is being asked about Dareus, Bowers and even Peterson...can they play another position as well?

BTW...I'm wrapped up in size and speed ratios because we are;

1) small
2) slow

Makes perfect sense to me.

03-08-2011 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 (Post 3133045)
I'm not talking about the top of the draft, but somewhere around 5-7 if we traded down.

Do you have another term for that part of the draft?

Also, Ayers isn't playing SAM. I haven't seen any indication that he will be anywhere but DE.

BroncoMan4ever 03-08-2011 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 (Post 3133044)
All Carolina's LB's were under 240, but I hardly think we can read into that that he doesn't like size. Besides, they were 1-15 with this setup...in any case this kid's got the speed as well as size.

i'm not saying he is against having size at the position. just that he prefers speed to size. with that in mind, i doubt the 10 additional pounds Miller has put on was truly necessary for Fox to have been interested in him if he ever had any interest in him

footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shananahan (Post 3133048)
Do you have another term for that part of the draft?

Also, Ayers isn't playing SAM. I haven't seen any indication that he will be anywhere but DE.

Ayers is pretty light at 275 to play DE on the strong side. Maybe he can bulk up.

My other term for "very top of the draft" is "#1 pick overall". I consider the 7th pick not the very top of the draft.

In any case, why is it a problem to ask if a guy can play another position? If he can't...he doesn't...seems simple enough since he can always play the same spot he had...but people are asking if Dareus can play inside since he played the DE in a 3-4 spot...same with Bowers. Some people even want to know if Peterson can play safety. What if they CAN play inside and he's a stud? I'm just asking if he CAN, not saying he HAS TO.

footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever (Post 3133049)
i'm not saying he is against having size at the position. just that he prefers speed to size. with that in mind, i doubt the 10 additional pounds Miller has put on was truly necessary for Fox to have been interested in him if he ever had any interest in him

He's traveling to his pro day so I assume he has some interest. Then again maybe he's a Shanny type that likes to throw out **** about his intentions, who knows?

OABB 03-08-2011 08:12 PM

Is this broncomania?

bronco militia 03-08-2011 08:48 PM

Von Miller gets the dreaded Vernon Gholston comparison

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 8, 2011, 12:56 PM EST
Could Vernon Gholston become the new Mike Mamula?

In the past, any Combine workout wonder was inevitably compared to Mamula as a cautionary tale. Now it’s possible that any deceptively productive, potentially stiff pass rusher could be compared to Gholston.

“[Miller's] got some Vernon Gholston in him,” former NFL scout Dave Razzano told Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com.

Razzano spent two decades as an NFL Scout. His opinion differs sharply from those who see Miller as one of the safer picks in the draft.

“I’m not a big Von Miller fan,” Razzano said. “In looking at Big-12 tape, he does not have a motor. He doesn’t chase hard. They run at him, and he doesn’t fight off blockers. When he gets sacks, a lot of times he’s not getting blocked. He’s a one-move guy.”

Miller was a fast riser after a huge senior season, but was seen as an inconsistent performer before.

He seemed to win over most skeptics at the Senior Bowl, but clearly some doubters remain.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/03/08/11/R...99&feedID=5936

footstepsfrom#27 03-08-2011 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco militia (Post 3133082)
Von Miller gets the dreaded Vernon Gholston comparison

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 8, 2011, 12:56 PM EST
Could Vernon Gholston become the new Mike Mamula?

In the past, any Combine workout wonder was inevitably compared to Mamula as a cautionary tale. Now its possible that any deceptively productive, potentially stiff pass rusher could be compared to Gholston.

[Miller's] got some Vernon Gholston in him, former NFL scout Dave Razzano told Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com.

Razzano spent two decades as an NFL Scout. His opinion differs sharply from those who see Miller as one of the safer picks in the draft.

Im not a big Von Miller fan, Razzano said. In looking at Big-12 tape, he does not have a motor. He doesnt chase hard. They run at him, and he doesnt fight off blockers. When he gets sacks, a lot of times hes not getting blocked. Hes a one-move guy.

Miller was a fast riser after a huge senior season, but was seen as an inconsistent performer before.
He seemed to win over most skeptics at the Senior Bowl, but clearly some doubters remain.

I'm leery of fast risers also, but in fairness to Miller, he had a bigger junior season than he did last year with 16 1/2 sacks and 21 TFL's. I'd hardly say he's a workout warrior or one year wonder. I'm more interested in how much he did in pass coverage since he seems to have mostly been an edge rusher in college...maybe that's innacurate though, not sure.

alkemical 03-08-2011 09:02 PM

I don'nt want this guy.

epicSocialism4tw 03-08-2011 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3133031)
Von Miller probably only a target if we get a trade offer and move down to say around the 7th pick. I guess there could be a run on QBS and Broncos make moves down?

I just don't see it though. No team will want to part with enough picks.

Truthfully even a 5 spot drop in first round takes more then a 2nd round pick. It would have to be like the first pick in 2nd round etc or have a 4th round pick added in.

I dont know, man...Miller is an impressive player. Look at what he produced with a terrible A&M team. He basically made them competitive.

He produced on the field and in the locker room. The guy was the team leader and delivered big time in getting A&M back to respectability. He was awesome over his entire college career.

He didnt just rack up stats against the little sisters of the poor either. He was a dominant player against the great offenses of the Big 12.

He's a natural leader, and he's a freak athlete as well.

He could end up being a star. The ceiling for him is very high.

epicSocialism4tw 03-08-2011 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 (Post 3133086)
I'm leery of fast risers also, but in fairness to Miller, he had a bigger junior season than he did last year with 16 1/2 sacks and 21 TFL's. I'd hardly say he's a workout warrior or one year wonder. I'm more interested in how much he did in pass coverage since he seems to have mostly been an edge rusher in college...maybe that's innacurate though, not sure.

Miller was awesome over his whole collegiate career.

The idea that he was a fast riser is just propagated by people who didnt know about him before. Its natural that a player at A&M would get overlooked.

He's a national award winner with a deep history. The guy is anything but a one year wonder.

BroncoMan4ever 03-08-2011 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 (Post 3133057)
He's traveling to his pro day so I assume he has some interest. Then again maybe he's a Shanny type that likes to throw out **** about his intentions, who knows?

truthfully, with the number 2 pick, i don't really think you can pull off the shanny smokescreen.

given the sheer amount of guaranteed money(potentially) the number 2 pick will garner and the fact that that pick is being envisioned as a cornerstone of the franchise for the next decade , you have to be as sure as is humanly possible on the guy you are targeting. with that in mind, if there is any interest at all in a guy, the holy triumvirate will meet him and speak to him at least once.

also with so few players at the top of the draft that are worthy of the #2 pick, the smokescreen wouldn't work as everyone in the league or following closely knows there is an extremely select and small group of potential targets that Denver could realistically be going for. it isn't like the middle of the 1st round where there are numerous options and a pick from out of nowhere that was unexpected can be made. the top 5 picks tend to be decided on and the only thing remaining is which one goes where.

SonOfLe-loLang 03-08-2011 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco militia (Post 3133082)
Von Miller gets the dreaded Vernon Gholston comparison

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 8, 2011, 12:56 PM EST
Could Vernon Gholston become the new Mike Mamula?

In the past, any Combine workout wonder was inevitably compared to Mamula as a cautionary tale. Now its possible that any deceptively productive, potentially stiff pass rusher could be compared to Gholston.

[Miller's] got some Vernon Gholston in him, former NFL scout Dave Razzano told Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com.

Razzano spent two decades as an NFL Scout. His opinion differs sharply from those who see Miller as one of the safer picks in the draft.

Im not a big Von Miller fan, Razzano said. In looking at Big-12 tape, he does not have a motor. He doesnt chase hard. They run at him, and he doesnt fight off blockers. When he gets sacks, a lot of times hes not getting blocked. Hes a one-move guy.

Miller was a fast riser after a huge senior season, but was seen as an inconsistent performer before.

He seemed to win over most skeptics at the Senior Bowl, but clearly some doubters remain.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/03/08/11/R...99&feedID=5936

I dont buy this at all. Methinks some scout is throwing this out there for negative press in an effort to maybe make people think twice.


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