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-   -   Peyton Hillis (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=87093)

Popps 11-25-2009 10:47 PM

Peyton Hillis
 
So, we've heard speculation from a few corners that he's had issues with coaching, or picking up the playbook. Being someone who thought he had starter written all over him, I found that tough to believe. But, I read it in a few places... and then even received a PM from what seemed a reliable source with no reason to make anything up. I didn't discredit the info, but didn't buy into it completely, either.

Yet, two offensive masterminds chose not to make him a starter, despite what looks like good physical tools.

So, after these rumors persisted, I googled a bit and came across this. Apparently, something called a "SIGMA" test, which is part of an "HRT Profile" that I'm guessing scouts use, which cites Wonderlic info, etc.

Again, I think Hillis has the physical tools to be productive, but this was an interesting read, if for no other reason... the detail it includes.

It's a PDF download. Find it by googling "Hillis SIGMA." I'm guessing this probably wasn't meant for public consumption so much as for some sort of scouting use. It doesn't sound like it's written for commercial consumption.

Hillis’s SIGMA test results raise several concerns. The approach he took to learning and preparation in college produced a personal belief that he was not able to consistently execute his responsibilities in games. There are strong indications that he needs to take more personal responsibility for learning what he needs to know. His coaches should make him execute, again and again, his responsibilities in game-like time constraints. During the off-season, pre-season, and practice, he will sometimes give less than his best effort and will let up when he sees an opportunity to do so. As a result, Hillis has not always been able to meet the challenges placed in front of him by his coaches. There were times when Hillis thought he came up short of meeting his own and his coaches’ expectations. He will be concerned about the kind of system he may be placed in and whether he can be successful and meet everyone’s requirements and demands. Hillis will tend to worry that he is not as prepared as he should be going into games. This self-doubt does not speak well for his chances of advancing and mastering his position requirements at the next level. Hillis is usually content to rely heavily on his natural abilities to get by and believes that his past coaches have had little impact on his performance. He thinks that he knows best and is less likely to listen to coaches’ advice and instructions and instead will try to play the game his own way. When things are not going well for him, Hillis will be openly critical and question his coaches and his teammates.

Do with it what you will, but it's interesting... considering the rumors and the circumstances.

Hogan11 11-25-2009 11:01 PM

He's as good as gone next year.

Popps 11-25-2009 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogan11 (Post 2654379)
He's as good as gone next year.

Yea, it's tough for me to believe... but it could happen. He wouldn't be the first guy with physical gifts that couldn't execute them properly.

Who knows how accurate any of this is, but at a certain point... you have to look for reasons.

McDaniels made a 1st round pick inactive last week, showing that (obviously) he's got no agenda of making his draft picks appear to be something they're not. He's starting plenty of Shanahan guys. He's clearly a guy who will start the player that gives him the best chance of winning. I'd say he's probably pretty ruthless in that regard.

So, when you look at a guy with Hillis' ability... and he's not receiving playing time, you have to wonder if some of this stuff carries weight.

Los Broncos 11-25-2009 11:06 PM

You might be right, that sure would piss off the Bronco nation.

Good find Popps thanks for posting, very interesting.

Hogan11 11-25-2009 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Clady (Post 2654389)
You might be right, that sure would piss off the Bronco nation.

Good find Popps thanks for posting, very interesting.

As we have seen, McD has no issue at all with pissing off the Bronco Nation.

Popps said the magic word here...ruthless. A trait no doubt, he learned from his mentor.

Lev Vyvanse 11-25-2009 11:11 PM

He has the same problem as cutler, all pro from the shoulders down and a empty head.

Play2win 11-25-2009 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lev Vyvanse (Post 2654392)
He has the same problem as cutler, all pro from the shoulders down and a empty head.

No doubt I thought I was reading a Cutler analysis, not hillis.

Los Broncos 11-25-2009 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogan11 (Post 2654391)
As we have seen, McD has no issue at all with pissing off the Bronco Nation.

Popps said the magic word here...ruthless. A trait no doubt, he learned from his mentor.

If he isn't going to be around next season I at least want to see him run one more time.

Natedog24 11-25-2009 11:21 PM

It will be pretty disappointing if Hillis goes on to have a great career elsewhere in the NFL. Really thought he was going to be the compliment back to Moreno for many years here in Denver or at least a real force at FB...

watermock 11-25-2009 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popps (Post 2654388)
Yea, it's tough for me to believe... but it could happen. He wouldn't be the first guy with physical gifts that couldn't execute them properly.

Who knows how accurate any of this is, but at a certain point... you have to look for reasons.

McDaniels made a 1st round pick inactive last week, showing that (obviously) he's got no agenda of making his draft picks appear to be something they're not. He's starting plenty of Shanahan guys. He's clearly a guy who will start the player that gives him the best chance of winning. I'd say he's probably pretty ruthless in that regard.

So, when you look at a guy with Hillis' ability... and he's not receiving playing time, you have to wonder if some of this stuff carries weight.

Other than the fact Hillis was a 7th rounder or we traded into the top 10 for an inactive nickleback?

strafen 11-25-2009 11:23 PM

Hillis, a guy who was thrown into the fire last year when all of our RB's went down, and to perform the way he did in such a short notice not only was remarkable, but blows this circulating BS out of the water.
This is the most ignorant crap I've heard in a while.
The guy is not stupid. McD brought his "own" guys to carry the ball for him; C-Buck, Lamont Jordan, and Moreno who he got in the draft.
That made Hillis the odd man out.
Quit trying to speculate and read into BS stories that not me, and not you know anything about what really is going on.
People are trying to get into Hillis head to say stuff like, Hillis thinks this, Hillis thinkls that, baloney. Who does really know what he's thinking?
I just want Hillis to be given a chance to play a whole freaking game solid.
A considerable playing time and let him loose.
I guarantee you that if that was to happen, all of this crap being talked about will change right quick.
There will be a lot of new dumbasses born that day...

Taco John 11-25-2009 11:24 PM

Someone posted this earlier this year. It's interesting stuff, but none of it changes that the guy has shown to be an absolute beast with the ball in his hands. The guy flat punishes the other team.

So whatever that SIGMA profile says, tell me we couldn't use this in our offense right now:

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houghtam 11-25-2009 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Play2Win (Post 2654395)
No doubt I thought I was reading a Cutler analysis, not hillis.

^ this

400HZ 11-25-2009 11:26 PM

Those results sound a lot like the results you get from a Myers-Briggs or DiSC type personality assessment. The whole point of them is to point out personal weaknesses, and so they almost invariably come off sounding negative.

It's also a pretty well established fact that Houston Nutt is a vindictive prick to players who don't entirely buy into his way of doing things. I know that he has been accused of screwing over former players in the past.

Taco John 11-25-2009 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lev Vyvanse (Post 2654392)
He has the same problem as cutler, all pro from the shoulders down and a empty head.

How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.

watermock 11-25-2009 11:30 PM

It was Popps calling for Hillis to start and draft front 7.

Morono scored less and fumbled more, and was drafted 200 places higher.

SoCalBronco 11-25-2009 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John (Post 2654406)
How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.

Very good point. That was also a very complicated offense and he was able to perform not only in the run game but also the passing game. Shanahan also trusted him enough to leave him in to pass protect. I find it hard to believe that he's suddenly, magically too dumb to play, or unwilling to prepare, or unwilling to be coachable. The note Popps posted is interesting, but I just have a hard time squaring its conclusions with what's already been proven about Hillis in game action (and not just in one or two games, either).

watermock 11-25-2009 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ (Post 2654405)
Those results sound a lot like the results you get from a Myers-Briggs or DiSC type personality assessment. The whole point of them is to point out personal weaknesses, and so they almost invariably come off sounding negative.

It's also a pretty well established fact that Houston Nutt is a vindictive prick to players who don't entirely buy into his way of doing things. I know that he has been accused of screwing over former players in the past.

Wow.

Go figure. Nutt would get kicked out of the KKK. He basically did.

Popps 11-25-2009 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John (Post 2654406)
How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.

He really didn't, Taco. Shanahan did everything he could to keep him off the field. Injuries put him in the starting role. He certainly played well in that role, and I became a huge fan.

But, if he can't pick up blocks, and can't execute the game plan and work with coaching, you can't reward a guy with a starting job.

Again, it's just speculation. I agree... he looks great with the ball in his hands.

He averaged 5.0 yards a carry in college. Why did he last until the 5th round?

Why didn't Shanahan/Turner make him a starter earlier?

Why is McDaniels choosing the same path?

I'm fairly sure McDaniels and Turner have YouTube. They've probably seen him with the ball in his hands.

At a certain point, you have to assume there's a reason.

Or, perhaps Shanahan and McDaniels simply are both incorrect about him being starting material. Who knows... but here we are.

Popps 11-25-2009 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watermock (Post 2654407)
It was Popps calling for Hillis to start and draft front 7.


We've covered that 10 times. Should we do it again?

YES, I thought he was starting caliber.... hence the thread and the repeated explanations as such.

Should we do this a few more times?

Is there maybe someone there at home that can help you, man?

Popps 11-25-2009 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco (Post 2654408)
The note Popps posted is interesting, but I just have a hard time squaring its conclusions with what's already been proven about Hillis in game action (and not just in one or two games, either).

I'd agree with that, absolutely.

But, here we are. McDaniels directed one of the most prolific offenses in history. Why did Shanahan and McDaniels both choose NOT to start Hillis when they had other options?

I don't have an answer, but with so much recent speculation as to how he's the answer to our running woes (where we average about 4.5 yards a carry between our two starters) .... I figured this was thread-worthy.

I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.

watermock 11-25-2009 11:53 PM

He went on IR last year and is probably the reason we had a cellphone salesman at RB and drafted Moreno, wonderlic 13..

Try that one on for size.

houghtam 11-25-2009 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watermock (Post 2654414)
He went on IR last year and is probably the reason we had a cellphone salesman at RB and drafted Moreno, wonderlic 13..

Try that one on for size.

How many other running backs went on IR before he became the starting RB? I think that was Popps' point.

watermock 11-26-2009 12:05 AM

He was the starting FB.

Go check.

Doesn't matter honestly.

He played outstanding till Cutler hung him out from the slot.

Taco John 11-26-2009 12:13 AM

The guy is at least a five tool player: pass blocker, back field receiver, lead blocker, punishing open field runningback, short yardage running back.

It's amazing to me that we can't find a way to use him on a team that has managed only four rushing touchdowns, and is in the top ten in fumbles. Hell, Hillis accounts for 25% of our rushing touchdowns with 1. He's gotten 50% of Knowshon's scoring production with 1 touchdown.

In 68 carries last year, Hillis gave us 6 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 24 first downs (35.3 first down percentage), a 5.0 yard per carry average and zero fumbles.

In 142 carries, Knowshon has 2 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 32 first downs (22.5 first down percentage), a 4.2 yard per carry average, and four fumbles - one more and he ties Tatum Bell's 2006 career high.


I've bolded the number that really irks me. Hillis's number here is elite. Being over 30% is practically unheard of. Nearing 25% is what guys like Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and MoJo Drew have.


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