Veterans defend Kerry, criticize Dole
 

BOSTON, United States (AFP) - Vietnam war veterans defended Democratic White House hopeful John Kerry from charges he lied to get his medals and scolded prominent Republican Bob Dole for joining the critics.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_040823190007

Another Swift Boat Veteran backs Kerry...and he was THERE

Dear Editor,

This letter is in response to the new attacks on John Kerry's war record by a group calling itself the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." As for most veterans of any war and as people who know me will testify, it is not easy for me to talk about my experiences in Vietnam. However, because of these new ads and, I understand, a new book recently published by an old Charles Colson "Enemies List" hit man, I feel compelled to speak out. Unfortunately, the veterans featured in these attacks are being used by extreme right wing Bush supporters to spread their lies and malign John Kerry.

I feel that most of these veterans who are joining this attack are against Kerry for what he did after he was home from the war than for what he did in the war. If they are against him for his stance against the Vietnam War, that certainly is their right, but to spread lies and malicious innuendos about his time on the rivers of Vietnam is not morally right and does a disservice not only to Kerry, but to all those who served and were wounded or died in that war. The people who are using these veterans for their own means obviously do not care about that. They did the same thing to Senator John McCain and Congressman Max Cleland in 2000 with no remorse or care for the consequences.

To me what is worse is that by their silence, the current administration has not, with any real meaning, disavowed itself or distanced itself in anyway from any of these scurrilous attacks, past or present. I feel that this truly shows the Bush administration for what they really are and ultimately, who is truly responsible for these attacks.

Since I happened to be along on one of the "excursions" where the boats that we were on were attacked and after which Lt. Kerry was cited for valor, I thought it appropriate to give my recollection of that event. This happened on March 13, 1969. I was assigned as Psychological Operation Officer for the Swift Boat group out of An Thoi, Vietnam, from January 1969 to October 1969. As such, I was on No. 43 boat, skippered by Don Droz who was later that year killed by enemy fire. We were second in line while exiting the river and going through the opening in a fish trap when a mine blew up under the No. 3 boat directly in front of us and we started taking small arms fire from the beach. Almost immediately, another mine went off somewhere behind us. All boats, except the one hit, immediately wheeled toward the beach that most of the fire came from (a tactic devised by Lt. Kerry, I later learned) and commenced showering the beaches with so much lead, that it could probably be now mined there. The noise was of course, deafening.

Three things that are forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 years ago are: (1) The No. 3, 50-foot long, Swift boat getting huge, huge air; John Kerry thought it was about two feet. (He was farther away from it than I). I think it was at least four feet and probably closer to six feet; (2) All the boats turning left and letting loose at the same time like a deadly, choreographed dance and; (3) A few minutes later, John Kerry bending over his boat picking up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water. All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach; although because of our fusillade into the jungle, I don't think it was very accurate, thank God. Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river.

The picture I have in my mind of Kerry bending over from his boat picking some hapless guy out of the river while all hell was breaking loose around us, is a picture based on fact and it cannot be disputed or changed. It's a piece of history drawn in my mind that cannot be redrawn. Sorry, "Swift Boats Veterans for the Truth"- that is the truth.

To say that John Kerry or any of us were on that river to intentionally collect Purple Hearts really does every soldier and sailor, past and present, a disservice. We were going up those rivers (with an ongoing casualty rate of 86 percent at the time) on the orders of the same people who approved of Kerry's medals and who are now joining in the attacks against Kerry. Unbelievable.

I would hope that the American public sees these evil extreme right wing attacks for what they really are and also pray that the veterans being used by these unpatriotic right wing extremist political operatives will divorce themselves immediately from them and speak to the real issues as to why they oppose John Kerry. I just don't understand how anyone can align themselves with those who intentionally and gleefully painted a decorated triple amputee (Max Cleland) from Vietnam as unpatriotic. I think that this is the most disastrous, un-American thing that can be done to our servicemen and women, especially now with another unending war going on. Your ends cannot possibly justify these means. Come on!

Jim Russell

Vietnam veteran,

USN (1966-71)

http://www.telluridegateway.com/arti.../opinion01.txt

Republican State Rep backing Kerry

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/aug04/252665.asp

No good deed goes unpunished, and these days that certainly includes John Kerry's service in Vietnam.

I'm sure this young Yale man could have found a way to avoid going over there, but Kerry signed up.

He volunteered to serve as skipper on a swift boat flushing out the enemy along rivers and canals. He rescued a soldier and earned medals for valor and for combat wounds.

Now this band of bothers turns up in books and television ads saying they served somewhere near Kerry in 'Nam and they think he's a no-good liar and an unworthy soldier. And, oh yeah, vote George W. Bush for president.

"I just think it's wrong."

That's not one of Kerry's fellow Democrats talking. It's Terry Musser, a Republican state rep, longtime chairman of the Assembly Committee on Veterans and Military Affairs, and the co-chairman of Wisconsin Veterans for Bush.

Musser served two tours as a paratrooper in Vietnam, and he's disgusted by these attacks on Kerry. And he doesn't particularly like the Democratic presidential nominee.

"He was there. He did it. My opinion is that anybody who served anywhere is a hero. And we should not as a nation be trying to tear down people who served and are serving," Musser said when I reached him by phone Friday. He represents the Black River Falls area in the Legislature.

Given that there were four separate instances of Bush/****yourself '04 coordination with the Swifties revealed since Friday, given that Kerry filed an FEC complaint on Friday, given that there was an entire new round of smears trotted out by Dole yesterday and were met with a relatively low-key response from the campaign...

I'm getting the feeling that Kerry is herding these dumb bastards into a position they will be incapable of wiggling out of, and he's going to drop an anvil on them.

I think he's got irrefutable proof that Rove has directly coordinated with the Swifties. And I'll bet he drops it right before the convention.

Thank you, Jim Russell. Honor speaks. Unfortunately, few Americans are listening.

You mean to tell me EVERY veteran supports kerry? Isn't that kinda reaching. Last time I looked the "swift boat veterans for truth" supported Bush. Kinda kills your argument doesn't it.

According to Mock, Russell's a "clown"... with "questionable credibility"... because he chose to write a LTTE of his local newspaper instead of running to national media to express his support for Kerry.

Kerry flopped on Christmas in Cambodia.

He did a complete 180 on wheter his boat took off when the mine hit #3.

He has given 3 different explanations for the subsequent injuries over the years.


Jack Chenoweth pulled 3 guys from #3 out of the water after Kerry took off and didnt revieve any medal.

"Kerry's false after-action report, prepared to justify his Purple Heart and Bronze Star, reports "5,000 meters" of heavy fire — about 2½ miles, the same distance as a large Civil War battlefield. Not a shot of this fire was heard by Chenoweth, Thurlow, Odell or Pease.

Kerry's after-action report ignores Chenoweth's heroic action in rescuing PCF 3 survivors and Thurlow's action in saving PCF 3, while highlighting his own routine pickup of Rassmann and PCF 94's minor role in saving PCF 3.

When Chenoweth's boat left a second time to deliver the wounded PCF 3 crewmen to a Coast Guard cutter offshore, Kerry jumped into the boat, leaving the remaining officers and men the job of saving PCF 3. It was in terrible condition, sinking just outside the river.

Kerry's eagerness to secure his third and final Purple Heart evidently outweighed any feelings of loyalty, duty or honor with regard to his fellow sailors. Thurlow and the other brave sailors who saved PCF 3 and towed it out did not seek Purple Hearts for their "minor contusions." Indeed, several PCF 3 sailors did not seek or receive Purple Hearts.

Chenoweth, Odell and boatmates who fished out the sailors of PCF 3 likewise had no thought of seeking medals, but only of rescuing comrades and saving PCF 3.

Kerry, however, portrays himself towing the disabled PCF 3 to safety after saving it. Another lie: The damage control on PCF 3 was done by Thurlow. [Thurlow was awarded the Bronze Star as a result of his actions.]

Although Kerry's PCF 94 participated in towing PCF 3, Kerry was no longer on his boat for most of the trip. He was safely on the Coast Guard cutter.

Thurlow and Chenoweth are certain Kerry played no role in saving PCF 3 or its crew. When they, as well as several other Swiftees who were there, first saw the Kerry campaign ads they believed the events portrayed in the ads (as well as in Kerry's campaign biography and the medal citations) had to be different and involve different people. They were horrified when they realized Kerry had received medals for the incident they remembered.

Thurlow's "horror" at Kerry's medal would be more credible if he hadn't recieved a Bronze Star himself after that same battle. In fact, Thurlow's Bronze Star citation (pdf) says that "...all units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." A Bronze Star is given for courage under fire. If Thurlow really heard "not a shot", then his own Bronze Star is just as invalid as Kerry's.

Not only do the Swift Boat Veterans Who Weren't On Kerry's Boat But Were In The General Area Or Heard About It From Guys Who Were In The Area not have any documentary evidence to back up their claims, a lot of what they say is actually contradicted the the avilable documents.

Might as well save your breath, OrangeDoofus. Yourself and others have repeated the evidence that seriously discredits Thurlow and others numerous times, yet njbil and others just keep citing these same guys as reliable sources over and over, even though their reliability is usually discredited not only by the official Navy records, but sometimes by their own words in the past. They know what they want to hear and no amount of reason can sway them.

Exactly.

As has been the mindset of the average bush supporter since the Boy King's coronation--whether it's WMD in Iraq, 9/11, Plamegate, or "____________" (fill in the blank with your favorite BushCo scandal) or the Swift Boat Pukes in question.

These people are taught to ignore facts and to be loyal to the bush crime family and the GOP no matter what.

If Dim Son was caught on videotape gunning down school children with an AK-47 in broad daylight, he could still bank their votes.

They would dismiss the film as liberal propaganda.

Thurlow said he believed the wording of his citation used "language taken directly from John Kerry's report, which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river."

"I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after-action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day," Thurlow said, adding he had been separated from the Navy for three months before he learned he had been cited for actions taken that day.

There are just as many or more anomalies / inconsistencies with the Kerry nam record but with the help of the liberal media he has intentionally framed the debate in such a way as to completely evade the substantive aspects of what the swift boat veterans are claiming


1. In Douglas Brinkley's "Tour of Duty," which is Kerry's official, approved war biography, he writes an entry after a mission. In that entry he says that after several missions he has not yet taken any enemy fire.

The problem here is that this particular entry in Kerry's diary was made concerning the mission which followed that mission where he earned his first Purple Heart.

2. The whole Christmas in Cambodia fable complete with imagery of drunken S Vietnamese firing weapons recklessly.

3. Despite the show staged at the Democrat convention, most of the officers in Kerry’s division have signed a public letter saying he's unfit to lead.

4. How the hell is Rassman a good witness to anything when in his own words he "swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath" He can't even remember which boat he was on.

Incidently a factoid that is often left out when he Rassman is interviewed is Rassman served with Kerry for exactly 3 days and therefore not the best one to be judging Kerry's ability to command.

5. Kerry's boat went from being the only one to stay behind and fight to being the only one that fled.

6. How the hell did any of these guys make it back, towing a disabled 3 boat through the "5000" yards of small arms fire? Almost 2 1/2 miles of gunfire and noone else was hit?

7.



http://www.swiftvets.com/images/brothers.jpg

Thurlow said he believed the wording of his citation used "language taken directly from John Kerry's report, which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river."

"I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after-action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day," Thurlow said, adding he had been separated from the Navy for three months before he learned he had been cited for actions taken that day.

There are just as many or more anomalies / inconsistencies with the Kerry nam record but with the help of the liberal media he has intentionally framed the debate in such a way as to completely evade the substantive aspects of what the swift boat veterans are claiming


1. In Douglas Brinkley's "Tour of Duty," which is Kerry's official, approved war biography, he writes an entry after a mission. In that entry he says that after several missions he has not yet taken any enemy fire.

The problem here is that this particular entry in Kerry's diary was made concerning the mission which followed that mission where he earned his first Purple Heart.

2. The whole Christmas in Cambodia fable complete with imagery of drunken S Vietnamese firing weapons recklessly.

3. Despite the show staged at the Democrat convention, most of the officers in Kerry’s division have signed a public letter saying he's unfit to lead.

4. How the hell is Rassman a good witness to anything when in his own words he "swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath" He can't even remember which boat he was on.

Incidently a factoid that is often left out when he Rassman is interviewed is Rassman served with Kerry for exactly 3 days and therefore not the best one to be judging Kerry's ability to command.

5. Kerry's boat went from being the only one to stay behind and fight to being the only one that fled.

6. How the hell did any of these guys make it back, towing a disabled 3 boat through the "5000" yards of small arms fire? Almost 2 1/2 miles of gunfire and noone else was hit?





http://www.swiftvets.com/images/brothers.jpg

Bob Dole and the Swift Boat Scumbags for Bush are sending a sick message to our troops currently in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Here is the essence of that message:

"If you're going to get wounded, be sure your injuries are severe enough to warrant a citation for the purple heart you receive, otherwise your service will be impugned and your sacrifice will be minimized when you get home."

"And, BTW, the people who will judge the severity of your wounds will be a bunch of draft dodgers, deserters, and chickenhawks who have never seen combat themselves."

Bob Dole and these other pieces of filth are the worst sort of political whores imaginable.

I guess njbil hasn't heard the news that the bottom-feeding vermin whose claims he keeps copying and pasting have been thoroughly refuted.

Even Herr ChimpenFuhrer himself has (finally) denounced the Swift Boat Liars ads.

Are you saying bush is wrong, njbil?

Hey, Njbil... only in the warped world of daily Rush Limbaugh listeners does repetition of discredited lies eventually equate truth...

:thumbsup:

http://www.evilgopbastards.com/rusheibmed.jpg
http://www.evilgopbastards.com/Bush_stupidityverysm.jpg

Swift Liar - Change Of Heart

George Elliott recommended Kerry for a Bronze Star in 1969
http://www.bartcop.com/george-elliot.jpg
"2004: Kerry lied."

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0820041kerry1.html

In this report, Elliott said Kerry was "highly courageous in the face of enemy fire" during a fight in March 1969. During that skirmish, Elliott noted, Kerry dodged sniper fire to save a colleague.

Back in Texas, when someone was needed for a beer run, Bush said, "Send me!"

You guys act as if Kerry's story has been rock solid and airtight when in actually it has changed whenever the truth has gotten in it's way.

But I digress, when the democratic party has the media carrying the water for them, it's easy to frame the debate in such a way as to completely evade the substantive aspects of what the swift boat veterans are claiming.

Even if you disregard all that the Swiftvets are saying:

1. Where is Chenoweth's medal for rescuing the rest of boat 3's crew? Why does Kerry's self serving after action report ignore this.

2. Why did Kerry flee against standard protocol

3. How the hell does a guy become the Audie Murphy of Vietnam and not miss a day fighting.

4. How come Rassman is such a good judge of the guy when in fact he only knew him for 3 days.




In fact Kerry has exaggerated/lied about his service on numerous occasions. 3 of his band of brothers even deny they were ever in Cambodia. On his website he takes credit for saving boat 3 when in fact Thurlow performed all the damage control. While Kerry's boat did tow the 3 boat back, Kerry was no longer on it, he was on the Coast Guard cutter getting a Band Aid and a spray of Bactine for his owie.

It's absurd the Swift Vets are being attacked or there source of funding has been questioned while the self serving Kerry is the source of the after action reports that the leftist media has used to "debunk" the Swift Vets claims.

Much ado is made of these guys not serving on Kerry's boat when in fact they were within yards.

People are attacking Kerry's military record simply because they prefer BushII. Every pol in history has padded his vet resume ... except Washington who was a myth even without padding. BushII has certainly done the same. At least Kerry was in Vietnam.

Two reasons for the diss on Kerry's service. 1. The protests after he came home. 2. Partisan. The latter should just be viewed for what little it's worth. If Kerry's policies are wrong, vote for the other guys, but debate his policies. The former is harder, imo. On one hand, his protest was used by the N.Viets. But on the other hand, without the protests Nixon would not have been as pressured to end the thing. And, in a sense, his protest is relevant to the election: if he's saying he's seen corrupt pols play political games with soldiers, and BushII is doing it now, then BushII needs to explain why invading Iraq was the only means left to protect America. But, Kerry's such a crappy candidate that I can't figure out what he's saying.

It's like talking to a brick wall. No matter how many lies are uncovered, how many times a point or fact is proven the brick wall just stands there and never changes.

It would be refreshing if they were candid in why they criticize him.

Michael Moore is editing the footage as we speak.

"He shoots schoochildren with guns bought at gun shows. He is directly responsible for Columbine, The University of Texas Shootings, and he was the man on the grassy knoll in Dallas. He is George W. Bush. In the thrilling sequel to Farenheit 9/11, Michael Moore examines all that has gone wrong since George W. Bush was born."

-"A stunning examination of Bush's life"-raves Moveon.org
-"I've been saying this stuff for years"-Screams LABF
-"My panties are in a wad"-Whines Arianna Huffington

Go see Michael Moore's new documentary, "George W. Bush kills babies, shot santa, and other freaky facts." Coming soon to a theater near you.