The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community

The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/index.php)
-   Orange Mane Central Discussion (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Super Bowl XLVPRII3: Choking the Seachickens (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=114178)

TheReverend 01-27-2014 07:43 AM

Super Bowl XLVPRII3: Choking the Seachickens
 
How to win against the Seahawks Man-Cover 3?

First and foremost, with a dozen sacks coming from their back seven, Denver needs to have their protection schemes properly prepared to handle the blitz. Fortunately, Manning/Gase/Ramirez and company are the best in the business in this regard, allowing a league low 20 sacks throughout the regular season (despite lining up against the likes of JJ Watt, Robert Mathis, Suggs and Dumervil, etc) and none throughout the AFC playoffs.

Now, what is Man-Cover 3? A traditional cover 3 has both corners and the free safety covering a deep third. In this coverage, the corners cannot allow someone to slip behind them in coverage as the safety couldn't realistically get to the ball in time, so you see corners surrendering the underneath stuff and not breaking on short routes until the ball is in the air. In Seattle, however, Earl Thomas is so damn good, corners are able to break and squat on the underneath routes, giving the defense more man-coverage elements... and weaknesses.

Despite the Icarus-esque parallels of flying too close to the sun, as opposed to the traditional “shut down corner”, Richard Sherman does not travel. While I have no doubts that Manning and DT/Decker are very capable of melting his wings and drubbing him out of the “Best Corner in the league” nonsense, this presents a substantial amount of superior matchup opportunities for Denver’s immensely talented, base 11-personnel package.

Denver excels at attacking the underneath stuff (a weakness of the cover 3) and grabbing YAC yards in chunks. Expect the latter to be limited by the fundamentally-sound, solid tackling Seahawks defense, but far from eliminated as our monstrous receivers will minimally be able to continue falling forward for a couple more yards.

I would expect Denver to attack those “deep-third”s with some deep crosses out of Twins formations (twins away from Sherman—Sherman is a cerebral player who is easily capable of disguising his coverage pre-snap and baiting our receivers into the wrong read stemming into their route). This will not only isolate Maxwell and <del>Rapist</del> Cox (if Demaryius lines up opposite Cox, do they play “Smell my finger” before the snap?), but it will also force some last second decisions by the corner and mid-field safety (Earl Thomas), and likely result in at least one big play. The Broncos would be wise to send Julius deep mid-field to threaten and hold the safety.

Much more at awful-hack website: http://patrickturley.org/super-bowl-...e-seachickens/

Kaylore 01-27-2014 07:47 AM

This is overdue. I'm still reading, but had to come post after this

Quote:

(if Demaryius lines up opposite Cox, do they play “Smell my finger” before the snap?

Popcorn Sutton 01-27-2014 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 4041924)
<em><strong>How to win against the Seahawks Man-Cover 3?</strong></em>

First and foremost, with a dozen sacks coming from their back seven, Denver needs to have their protection schemes properly prepared to handle the blitz. Fortunately, Manning/Gase/Ramirez and company are the best in the business in this regard, allowing a league low 20 sacks throughout the regular season (despite lining up against the likes of JJ Watt, Robert Mathis, Suggs and Dumervil, etc) and <em>none</em> throughout the AFC playoffs.

Despite the Icarus-esque parallels of flying too close to the sun, as opposed to the traditional “shut down corner”, Richard Sherman does not travel. While I have no doubts that Manning and DT/Decker are very capable of melting his wings and drubbing him out of the “Best Corner in the league” nonsense, this presents a substantial amount of superior matchup opportunities for Denver’s immensely talented, base 11-personnel package.

Denver excels at attacking the underneath stuff (a weakness of the cover 3) and grabbing YAC yards in chunks. Expect the latter to be limited by the fundamentally-sound, solid tackling Seahawks defense, but far from eliminated as our monstrous receivers will minimally be able to continue falling forward for a couple more yards.

I would expect Denver to attack those “deep-third”s with some deep crosses out of Twins formations (twins away from Sherman—Sherman is a cerebral player who is easily capable of disguising his coverage pre-snap and baiting our receivers into the wrong read stemming into their route). This will not only isolate Maxwell and <del>Rapist</del> Cox (if Demaryius lines up opposite Cox, do they play “Smell my finger” before the snap?), but it will also force some last second decisions by the corner and mid-field safety (Earl Thomas), and likely result in at least one big play. The Broncos would be wise to send Julius deep mid-field to threaten and hold the safety.

Much more at awful-hack website: http://patrickturley.org/super-bowl-...e-seachickens/


Somebody is messing with you. Had a poor rating on WOT. I went in and rated positively to help balance the scales.

TheReverend 01-27-2014 07:53 AM

Just added in, in case you've already read:

Quote:

Man-Cover 3? A traditional cover 3 has both corners and the free safety covering a deep third. In this coverage, the corners cannot allow someone to slip behind them in coverage as the safety couldn't realistically get to the ball in time, so you see corners surrendering the underneath stuff and not breaking on short routes until the ball is in the air. In Seattle, however, Earl Thomas is so damn good, corners are able to break and squat on the underneath routes, giving the defense more man-coverage elements... and weaknesses.

TheReverend 01-27-2014 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popcorn Sutton (Post 4041928)
Somebody is messing with you. Had a poor rating on WOT. I went in and rated positively to help balance the scales.

I dont even know what WOT is, but thanks?

Popcorn Sutton 01-27-2014 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 4041933)
I dont even know what WOT is, but thanks?

https://www.mywot.com/

Someone is saying your site is unsafe.

Popcorn Sutton 01-27-2014 08:17 AM

Nice writeup btw.

UberBroncoMan 01-27-2014 08:28 AM

I thought Cox was released by the Seahawks and ended up back with the 49ers again.

andyh64000 01-27-2014 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 4041924)
How to win against the Seahawks Man-Cover 3?

This will not only isolate Maxwell and <del>Rapist</del> Cox (if Demaryius lines up opposite Cox, do they play “Smell my finger” before the snap?) http://patrickturley.org/super-bowl-...e-seachickens/

It won't be Cox...the next two DBs for the Seahawks are Walter Thurmond and Jeremy Lane. Cox was released and signed by the 49ers. Thurmond was the starter after Browner until he got popped for pot and given a 4 game suspension (what do you expect from a Duck).

And no love of Cam Chancellor?

Kaylore 01-27-2014 08:48 AM

The real issues for me are as follows:

1. Seattle moving to a more man-press scheme. I think they can do it, but it will be an adjustment, and it opens you up to more screens - which Denver is very good at.

2. Their grabby defense. They lead the league in penalties. They'll cheat and pull knowing it only gets called a third of the time. Denver's receivers need to know if they are going to "let them play" we need to push off, block early, and cheat just as much.

3. Turnovers. Denver wasn't fantastic at protecting the ball this year. Seattle is +3 on give/take in the playoffs. Though they only got one against the Saints, so three have come against one team. If Denver turns the ball over, it will be difficult to win.

4. Protection. You spoke to this a bit, but not the other side that seems to be getting ignored. Denver has handled some good defenses and handled them easily. The Broncos have allowed 0 sacks. What isn't being talked about is how the Seahawks have allowed Russell Wilson to be sacked 7 times - at home. Now granted, both New Orleans and San Fran have top tier pass rushes, but Denver is just a sniff behind them - and has been all year without Von Miller. Denver has been able to sack the QB the last several games and this is going against good offensive lines and All-pro QBs. On a neutral field Denver should be able to harass Wilson.

5. Intangibles. Denver has overcome quite a bit. And I really liked their workman approach after the game and how they've been pretty quiet. The Seahawks have been mouthing off and celebrating like they already won it. They're press conferences they've been putting a lot of stock in that preseason game like "we just need to do that again." Denver got smacked in the mouth then. I am hopeful the Hawks see the AFC, and our team by consequence as inferior. I suspect Denver comes out with a lot of intensity and is up for the task.

I see us losing if: If we turn the ball over and they are able to pressure Manning. If they officiate the secondary pretty lightly and we don't fight back they'll hold our receivers, sack Manning and give their offense opportunities. In those instances they will eventually get Lynch going and it will be a long day. I also could Harvin and some explosive special teams plays going their way and taking us down.

I see us winning: If we get a lead and make Wilson have to beat us. You alluded to this before, but if you stop the run and get some scores right away, you put the whole game on Wilson. That's a tall order for him. Wilson hasn't been asked to win the game for his team very much this year. I could see us getting some turnovers when show blitz and drop nine into coverage. I could also see Holiday finally breaking one.

It should be a good game. If Denver is physical and protects the ball, we should be able to win. If they buckle down and force a few, we will probably lose.

Powderaddict 01-27-2014 08:54 AM

I think Moreno and Ball will be a key to winning this game. As long as Denver can establish a run threat, and make the defense have to defend the entire field. They don't have to bust out huge gains or go TD in XXXII, just have enough of a threat to keep the defense honest, and guessing. We haven't scored a ton in the playoffs, but we have controlled the games and the tempo, much in part to having an effective run game.

They should be up to the task. I'd love to see Ball have a "breakout" type game, I think he has that kind of ability.

Edited: I watched XXXII last night, man was it fun watching TD just take over that game. He really was the "unstoppable force".

DENVERDUI55 01-27-2014 09:06 AM

Good writeup. Seattle rarely sends someone than the front 7 and usually only rushes 4. Wagner has delayed Blitz from time to time. I expect a Seattle to play coverage on the back end early and see how the front 4 is doing. If Denver doesn't turn the ball over they win.

Kaylore 01-27-2014 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powderaddict (Post 4041985)
I think Moreno and Ball will be a key to winning this game. As long as Denver can establish a run threat, and make the defense have to defend the entire field. They don't have to bust out huge gains or go TD in XXXII, just have enough of a threat to keep the defense honest, and guessing. We haven't scored a ton in the playoffs, but we have controlled the games and the tempo, much in part to having an effective run game.

They should be up to the task. I'd love to see Ball have a "breakout" type game, I think he has that kind of ability.

Edited: I watched XXXII last night, man was it fun watching TD just take over that game. He really was the "unstoppable force".

I agree with all of this. I am going through and re-watching all the Bronco games from this season. Ball has shown his ability early on. Even in very limited reps against teams like the Raiders and Eagles he had his moments.

I also re-watched some of the those old Super Bowl segments on NFL network they ran. (The 1985 Billy Ocean rip-off opening is the cheesiest). Anyway I watched the '77 SB that we lost to Dallas. You could tell the team was just happy to be there. They were mouthing off after the Raider game and so hyped up. Dallas was more business-like. Denver was very business-like after the Patriots game and has been pretty quiet.

Also loved watching the part of SB 33 when you see Shanahan dissect the Falcons coverage while the Falcons are on the field - and then the Broncos come right out and throw that big score to Rod Smith. It was Shanny at his best.

TheReverend 01-27-2014 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyh64000 (Post 4041962)
It won't be Cox...the next two DBs for the Seahawks are Walter Thurmond and Jeremy Lane. Cox was released and signed by the 49ers. Thurmond was the starter after Browner until he got popped for pot and given a 4 game suspension (what do you expect from a Duck).

And no love of Cam Chancellor?

Oh you're right about Cox! My bad.

Chancellor's great but most robbers are. Eh. Earl Thomas is the engine that drives that bus.

ludo21 01-27-2014 09:24 AM

Rev great point about a plethora of "Good" pass rushers just not a guy.

This definitely will be a key to us going up tempo, and thus I really do think the weather is such a key factor (which i hate to say)

ludo21 01-27-2014 09:26 AM

Oh and Rev, a lot of write ups I have read state that Kam Chancellor can take Julius 1-1???

Isnt this exactly what Denver would want? Thoughts?

bronco militia 01-27-2014 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore (Post 4041927)
This is overdue. I'm still reading, but had to come post after this

LOL

(he missed all the girl on girl action)

Irish Stout 01-27-2014 09:44 AM

As always, I enjoy your write ups. Thanks for sharing!

How many times do you think Moreno will get open in the flat for 5-8 yard gains given the cover 3 D? One thing I've never been sure of, is a RB going out flat from the QB, is that part of the "underneath stuff" you refer to? I typically think of underneath as a WR or TE coming across a few yards past the line of scrimmage and in the middle.

TheReverend 01-27-2014 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Stout (Post 4042042)
As always, I enjoy your write ups. Thanks for sharing!

How many times do you think Moreno will get open in the flat for 5-8 yard gains given the cover 3 D? One thing I've never been sure of, is a RB going out flat from the QB, is that part of the "underneath stuff" you refer to? I typically think of underneath as a WR or TE coming across a few yards past the line of scrimmage and in the middle.

Their backers will be zoning out the underneath and are all pretty good in coverage. Knowshon will still get a good amount of receiving opportunities, but much more likely to get tackled right after the catch than his usual YAC when he slips out of the backfield.

Does that answer your question adequately?

ColoradoDarin 01-27-2014 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 4042074)
Their backers will be zoning out the underneath and are all pretty good in coverage. Knowshon will still get a good amount of receiving opportunities, but much more likely to get tackled right after the catch than his usual YAC when he slips out of the backfield.

Does that answer your question adequately?

That's why I'm thinking Montee has a big game, he's a bit more slippery than Knowshon (of course that assumes Ball catches the damn ball...)

Rabb 01-27-2014 10:24 AM

I like your write up. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

TheReverend 01-27-2014 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabb (Post 4042084)
I like your write up. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

We have an image to upload and therefore must decline your kind of riff-raff.

Irish Stout 01-27-2014 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 4042074)
Their backers will be zoning out the underneath and are all pretty good in coverage. Knowshon will still get a good amount of receiving opportunities, but much more likely to get tackled right after the catch than his usual YAC when he slips out of the backfield.

Does that answer your question adequately?

Yep. Thanks.

TheReverend 01-27-2014 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Stout (Post 4042099)
Yep. Thanks.

Wanted to expand on short openings in coverage for wideouts vs RBs for you, so drew this up quick:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...psd9dce594.jpg

The underneath stuff is open for wideouts because the corners are in their backpedal and have to keep the play in front of them and the outside linebackers physically aren't there yet.

The underneath stuff is not nearly as open running backs. As they flood to the flat, the outside linebacker is doing the same thing.

Irish Stout 01-27-2014 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 4042163)
Wanted to expand on short openings in coverage for wideouts vs RBs for you, so drew this up quick:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...psd9dce594.jpg

The underneath stuff is open for wideouts because the corners are in their backpedal and have to keep the play in front of them and the outside linebackers physically aren't there yet.

The underneath stuff is not nearly as open running backs. As they flood to the flat, the outside linebacker is doing the same thing.

Got it. The RB only opens up in the flat if the LB drops in to pressure the QB or if they end up moving to cover a slot receiver.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.