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-   -   The Liberalization of Colorado (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=113582)

Guess Who 01-01-2014 01:37 AM

The Liberalization of Colorado
 
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makes me all warm and fuzzy

Johnykbr 01-02-2014 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guess Who (Post 4012583)

I wouldn't throw legalized marijuana at the throne of liberalism. This has been a tenant of libertarianism for a long time and it's pretty bi-partisan now.

houghtam 01-02-2014 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnykbr (Post 4013145)
I wouldn't throw legalized marijuana at the throne of liberalism. This has been a tenant of libertarianism for a long time and it's pretty bi-partisan now.

Libertarianism and liberalism are not exclusive. Libertarianism generally espouses fiscally conservative and socially liberal ideals. The legalization of marijuana, being more or less a social issue, is a liberal ideal that is supported by many libertarians.

Johnykbr 01-02-2014 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 4013160)
Libertarianism and liberalism are not exclusive. Libertarianism generally espouses fiscally conservative and socially liberal ideals. The legalization of marijuana, being more or less a social issue, is a liberal ideal that is supported by many libertarians.

They are not but my point was legalization has been a talking point for libertarians far longer than it has been for liberals and conservatives. Now both parties seem to be in favor of it because the Dems say grow it and tax it and the GOP says stop wasting money fighting it. Either way, I hope it works out well and the projected figures are returned. There are a lot of influential organizations just waiting to pounce on a single mishap.

B-Large 01-02-2014 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 4013160)
Libertarianism and liberalism are not exclusive. Libertarianism generally espouses fiscally conservative and socially liberal ideals. The legalization of marijuana, being more or less a social issue, is a liberal ideal that is supported by many libertarians.

In a sense yes- on the subject of recreatonal drug use, I would say they are very much in line. However a Libertarian would disagree that free people's have to pay excessive taxes and fees on a plant they can be grown easily with the right equipment.

houghtam 01-02-2014 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Large (Post 4013400)
In a sense yes- on the subject of recreatonal drug use, I would say they are very much in line. However a Libertarian would disagree that free people's have to pay excessive taxes and fees on a plant they can be grown easily with the right equipment.

That's why I was sure to say "legalization" and not "taxation".

spdirty 01-02-2014 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Large (Post 4013400)
In a sense yes- on the subject of recreatonal drug use, I would say they are very much in line. However a Libertarian would disagree that free people's have to pay excessive taxes and fees on a plant they can be grown easily with the right equipment.

Well you can grow 6 plants in your residence if you want.

I just wish 5 or 6 states would do this at the same time. I hate being the guinea pig.

Sometime I'll probably get a wild hair up my ass and go do it. Too tempting for me not to.

Guess Who 01-03-2014 08:52 AM

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/qZ...7067005b84.jpg

I think people like this law

B-Large 01-03-2014 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 4013561)
That's why I was sure to say "legalization" and not "taxation".

I knew what you meant, it was a good point.

houghtam 01-03-2014 09:10 AM

I think people like this law, too.

One other thing I've noticed is that there seems to be a lot more educated and civil discourse these days. It used to be on any story or discussion like this you'd find a ton of people just making stupid pot jokes and not being serious.

You have to look for that anymore, or like I said, at least it seems that way. People are taking it more seriously because it's really happening. It's inevitable now.

B-Large 01-03-2014 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdirty (Post 4013696)
Well you can grow 6 plants in your residence if you want.

I just wish 5 or 6 states would do this at the same time. I hate being the guinea pig.

Sometime I'll probably get a wild hair up my ass and go do it. Too tempting for me not to.

It will be inetresting to see ho many people opt to grow and maintain. I assume there is a space and equipement/ nutrtional hurdles, but 6 plants will yield alot of product of done well.

B-Large 01-03-2014 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 4013927)
I think people like this law, too.

One other thing I've noticed is that there seems to be a lot more educated and civil discourse these days. It used to be on any story or discussion like this you'd find a ton of people just making stupid pot jokes and not being serious.

You have to look for that anymore, or like I said, at least it seems that way. People are taking it more seriously because it's really happening. It's inevitable now.

The medical MJ was a good segway to mitigate the "pot jokes" you referenced. Medical ran just fine for years here and there were no mass murders, robberies, rashes of kids getting stoned at every turn... so I think the recreational step is logical and well planned.

Now I just hear most opponents trying to make an argument for how MJ is more dangerous that Alcohol, or that it is the gateway- if there is any Gateway, it is alcohol... or maybe that Gateway ntoion is BS, and some people just get into drugs and experiment, some don't.

Johnykbr 01-03-2014 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Large (Post 4013939)
The medical MJ was a good segway to mitigate the "pot jokes" you referenced. Medical ran just fine for years here and there were no mass murders, robberies, rashes of kids getting stoned at every turn... so I think the recreational step is logical and well planned.

Now I just hear most opponents trying to make an argument for how MJ is more dangerous that Alcohol, or that it is the gateway- if there is any Gateway, it is alcohol... or maybe that Gateway ntoion is BS, and some people just get into drugs and experiment, some don't.

My buddy who was an accountant for one of the medical dispensaries in Northern Colorado said that robberies were pretty common actually but he had never heard of a violent one. He said most of the time the owners didn't report it because they were rarely cash rich and they didn't want negative publicity for the industry. In fact, his boss made so little money that he kept trying to encourage him to accept marijuana in payment rather than money. He told me he did calculations, not that he would act on it, that if he took the weed and sold it he would have probably made around 250k to 300k a year on the conservative side rather than the 15k he was making being legitimate.

But with that said, I think Youtube and social media played a huge part in destigmatizing medical marijuana. It is damn tough to still be against the stuff when you see videos of people with cancer or severe epilepsy showing signs of recovery/relief when using...

cutthemdown 01-03-2014 09:13 PM

I heard price soared to ridiculous amounts in colo though? how is that a good thing?

houghtam 01-03-2014 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 4014550)
I heard price soared to ridiculous amounts in colo though? how is that a good thing?

Well gee, genius. I thought you were a fan of the free market? Do you even understand how it works? Once more and more places open up, guess what? Competition.

spdirty 01-04-2014 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Large (Post 4013939)
The medical MJ was a good segway to mitigate the "pot jokes" you referenced. Medical ran just fine for years here and there were no mass murders, robberies, rashes of kids getting stoned at every turn... so I think the recreational step is logical and well planned.

Now I just hear most opponents trying to make an argument for how MJ is more dangerous that Alcohol, or that it is the gateway- if there is any Gateway, it is alcohol... or maybe that Gateway ntoion is BS, and some people just get into drugs and experiment, some don't.

The Gateway argument is a case by case deal. Pot, alcohol, even cigarettes are a gateway for some people. For most others, not so. The whole argument gets jacked up when you start generalizing.

cutthemdown 01-04-2014 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 4014571)
Well gee, genius. I thought you were a fan of the free market? Do you even understand how it works? Once more and more places open up, guess what? Competition.

Well the problem is the regulations on where you can get weed, who can own a shop, where you can open one will make sure to stifle that free market. A free market is get your weed from the best supplier not all the rules colo trying. That just drives price even higher.

cutthemdown 01-04-2014 09:59 AM

Same thing in CA they make rules so bogus the shops are way more pricey then underground. Govt has to say its legal period, at the fed level. That way CA weed can flood the market and Mexico can get in on the act as well. That should drop the price down to about 50 bucks an ounce and destroy the American pot economy.

cutthemdown 01-04-2014 10:02 AM

Only a liberal would say a market with tons of regulations, restrictions, which keep the price as high as it was when it was illegal is some sort of free market lol.

houghtam 01-04-2014 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 4014713)
Well the problem is the regulations on where you can get weed, who can own a shop, where you can open one will make sure to stifle that free market. A free market is get your weed from the best supplier not all the rules colo trying. That just drives price even higher. Same thing in CA they make rules so bogus the shops are way more pricey then underground. Govt has to say its legal period, at the fed level. That way CA weed can flood the market and Mexico can get in on the act as well. That should drop the price down to about 50 bucks an ounce and destroy the American pot economy. Only a liberal would say a market with tons of regulations, restrictions, which keep the price as high as it was when it was illegal is some sort of free market lol.

Question for you, cut.

Can you buy cigarettes just anywhere? Can you buy beer just anywhere? Can you buy wine just anywhere? Can you buy liquor just anywhere? Are there restrictions as to the potency and classification of beers, wines and liquors? Are there restrictions as to where, how and how much you can manufacture on your own property for private use? Are there taxes on these things? Do those taxes go to good causes? Are they still affordable? Can you still get ****ed up?

Only a cutthemdown wouldn't understand these things.

DenverBrit 01-04-2014 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 4014713)
Well the problem is the regulations on where you can get weed, who can own a shop, where you can open one will make sure to stifle that free market. A free market is get your weed from the best supplier not all the rules colo trying. That just drives price even higher.

Once enough of the 'shops' open and real competition begins, the prices will plummet by somewhere close to 50%.

My guess is an ounce will settle down in the $180-$250 range, in line with medical pot.

El Minion 01-04-2014 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Large (Post 4013936)
It will be inetresting to see ho many people opt to grow and maintain. I assume there is a space and equipement/ nutrtional hurdles, but 6 plants will yield alot of product of done well.

I figure the same percentage that grow their own tomatoes, herbs, roses and make their own beer, e.g. instead of buying them at the market. This will be just another hobbyists market that is now legal and the home grower is now free from fear of arrest and prosecution.

houghtam 01-04-2014 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Minion (Post 4014758)
I figure the same percentage that grow their own tomatoes, herbs, roses and make their own beer, e.g. instead of buying them at the market. This will be just another hobbyists market that is now legal and the home grower is now free from fear of arrest and prosecution.

I think you're right, although I'm guessing it's probably going to be closer to home brewing than gardening. Probably more to start off until the novelty dies off and they figure out it's just easier to buy it at the store.

And probably just like home brewing, you'll get some people that are good at it, some that suck, and there won't be much consistency between strains. But even the skunk weed will still get you ****ed up for a bit.

Pony Boy 01-05-2014 11:15 AM

Legalized Marijuana Cookie Sends 2-Year-Old Girl To Hospital In Colorado

http://www.medicaldaily.com/legalize...olorado-266338

DenverBrit 01-05-2014 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony Boy (Post 4016358)
Legalized Marijuana Cookie Sends 2-Year-Old Girl To Hospital In Colorado

http://www.medicaldaily.com/legalize...olorado-266338

Thank god that doesn't happen with prescription meds, alcohol or anything else potentially harmful to a toddler.


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