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-   -   FYI: Democrats have demanded conditions for debt-ceiling increases 21 times since 1979 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=112387)

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun 10-04-2013 09:42 AM

FYI: Democrats have demanded conditions for debt-ceiling increases 21 times since 1979
 
http://www.caintv.com/fyi-democrats-have-demanded-co

Quote:

Unprecedented!

Why, those irresponsible Republicans, risking the full faith and credit of the United States by threatening not to raise the debt limit! It's unheard of! It's unprecedented! It's beyond the pale, I tell ya!

Except for one thing: It's as common as the day is long. In fact, more than half of all the debt ceiling increases since 1979 came with conditions, and no party attached conditions more than the Democrats.

Writing today in the Wall Street Journal, Kevin Hassett and Abby McCloskey tell you what the mainstream media would have told you two years ago if it was not merely an Obama propaganda outfit:

Congressional Republicans who want legislative conditions in exchange for a debt-limit increase are following a strategy that has been pursued by both parties the majority of the time. Of the 53 increases in the debt limit, 26 were "clean"—that is, stand-alone, no strings-attached statutes. The remaining debt-limit increases were part of an omnibus package of other legislative bills or a continuing resolution. Other times, the limit was paired with reforms, only some of which were related to the budget.


In 1979, a Democratic Congress increased the debt limit but required Congress and the president to present balanced budgets for fiscal years 1981 and 1982. In 1980 the debt limit, again increased by a Democratic Congress, included repeal of an oil-import fee. In 1985, the debt limit that was raised by a divided Congress included a cigarette tax and a provision requiring Congress to pursue an alternative minimum corporate tax in the next year.

Hassett and McCloskey also make a good point about the usefulness of the debt ceiling as a check against executive power. A party that controls only one house of Congress can't really govern per se, but its assent is still needed by the president for certain essential actions. A president who thinks he is above consultation with Congress could use a little reining in, and the need to raise the debt ceiling is a useful reminder that if he goes too far cramming his own agenda down the throats of the nation, the opposition party does indeed have an ace to play.

As Hassett and McCloskey demonstrate here, the Democratic Party has not been shy about playing that ace frequently over the course of the last generation.

I would ask why the mainstream news media have not called Obama on his insistence that this is all so unprecedented and shocking, but the question answers itself so I won't bother.

I would say this, though: If you don't want the opposition party holding you hostage with conditions for raising the debt ceiling, why don't you try balancing the budget? Then you won't need to borrow, and they won't be able to exercise that check on you. Debt presents all kinds of complications in life that people who pay cash don't have to deal with. If this situation is bothering Obama that much, he should give it a try.
http://static.caintvnetwork.com/0bb5...n-Archives.jpg

houghtam 10-04-2013 09:46 AM

Already been discussed several times.

Different situations.

Swing and a miss.

Strike three!

Now go hang your head in shame.

:)

Meck77 10-04-2013 10:20 AM

As if your'are the judge of different situations. Opinions. Like aholes.

Opposing parties have always used the debt ceiling to bargain with. Only difference now is we have a president who has helped create a civil war at our capital.

W*GS 10-04-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3930575)
Opposing parties have always used the debt ceiling to bargain with. Only difference now is we have a president who has helped create a civil war at our capital.

That's only because your GOP is being exceptionally uncivil.

houghtam 10-04-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3930575)
As if your'are the judge of different situations. 1) Opinions. Like aholes.

2) Opposing parties have always used the debt ceiling to bargain with. Only difference now is we have a president who has helped create a civil war at our capital.

You said it.

Opinions. A-holes. :)

Rohirrim 10-04-2013 11:24 AM

OP just too dumb to waste time on. Argument has been answered numerous times. The willfully ignorant cannot be saved.

BroncoBeavis 10-04-2013 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 3930624)
OP just too dumb to waste time on. Argument has been answered numerous times. The willfully ignorant cannot be saved.

Answered in the sense that any difference in any sense is considered vindication. Using standards the renders the whole concept of analogy itself null and void.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ow-they-ended/

My personal favorite argument is this one:

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/10/03/reckl...-is-different/

Quote:

The current standoff (which has already reached the three-day mark, with no end in sight) is part of an avowed Republican effort to repeal the 2010 health care reform, whose significance overshadows every other item of domestic policy during Obama’s presidency (and during every Democratic presidency since that of Lyndon Johnson). Obamacare is much, much bigger game than the MX missile, or the contras, or the Fairness Doctrine ever was. (That’s why the hard-right, total-war House faction that’s driving the shutdown wants to kill it.) The Affordable Care Act is much bigger game even than the large Medicare cuts sought by the Republican House and Senate during the two Clinton-era shutdowns of late 1995 and early 1996, which lasted not days, but weeks—exhausting the nation’s patience with government shutdowns in general, and affixing blame to overreaching congressional ideologues.
Translation: When we shut down the government it was only over really petty ****, not the really important stuff. LOL

Garcia Bronco 10-04-2013 01:28 PM

They are different situations, but now that I've seen the rates and the coverage and the mandates of the coverage and the death panels and waviers to exclude people that should be using this....kill it....kill it with fire.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun 10-04-2013 01:32 PM

LOL. Dems are all like "but but but its different......its the republicans!!!!!!!!" LOL

Taco John 10-04-2013 01:42 PM

It was different when Tip Oniell shut down the government 13 times. He was doing it to support stuff that we believe in!

BroncoBeavis 10-04-2013 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John (Post 3930782)
It was different when Tip Oniell shut down the government 13 times. He was doing it to support stuff that we believe in!

Truth of the matter is, if you remember back to when the Proggies had a raging boner for nuclear disarmament, the MX Missile program was an ideological trophy they wanted on their mantle.

And they shut down the government over it. Is that the same as shutting the government over forcing individuals to buy insurance on a platform that clearly isn't ready?

No, it's not. Because it's far worse.

barryr 10-05-2013 07:30 AM

The democrats never see their blatant hypocrisy and double standards on every issue that exists, but they are the "smart" ones as they proclaim.

Jetmeck 10-05-2013 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryr (Post 3931072)
The democrats never see their blatant hypocrisy and double standards on every issue that exists, but they are the "smart" ones as they proclaim.


My dog is smarter than most of you and has better manners.

Your party attached Obamacare to the budget.........made two separate issues one even though there was no way in hell it was going to go their way.

NEVER has this happened over a law, did you understand that ?

A law

DenverBrit 10-05-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmeck (Post 3931112)
My dog is smarter than most of you and has better manners.

Your party attached Obamacare to the budget.........made two separate issues one even though there was no way in hell it was going to go their way.

NEVER has this happened over a law, did you understand that ?

A law

You'd have better luck talking politics to a......
http://www.poodleforum.com/attachmen...223.338510.jpg

BroncoBeavis 10-05-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryr (Post 3931072)
The democrats never see their blatant hypocrisy and double standards on every issue that exists, but they are the "smart" ones as they proclaim.

I've been wondering about this a lot lately but Jonah G wrote something in the last day or two that really takes the mystery out it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...jonah-goldberg

Quote:

Once you realize this it helps explain so many of the Left’s hypocrisies and alleged double standards. I say alleged, because they aren’t really double standards. You can only have a double standard when you actually believe something should be a standard. Ultimately, for progressives these procedural debates about how power is used in America are just that: procedural debates. The alleged standards at stake are evanescent and petty –for liberals. The only true standard is whatever advances the progressives’ ball downfield. That is the very heart of “social justice” — doing whatever “good” you can, when you can, however you can. As they say, behind every confessed double standard there is an unconfessed single standard. And for progressives, the single enduring standard is “whatever works for us.”
Worth a read.

Long and short, their only principle is Machiavellian. If they get their end, any means is justified.

BroncoBeavis 10-05-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmeck (Post 3931112)
My dog is smarter than most of you and has better manners.

Your party attached Obamacare to the budget.........made two separate issues one even though there was no way in hell it was going to go their way.

NEVER has this happened over a law, did you understand that ?

A law

Coming from the guys up who lubed Obamacare up in their Demonpass budgetary wrapper to avoid normal Senate parliamentary procedures, this is pretty rich.

There is no lever your heros won't pull. Get used to them reaping more of what they've sown.

Arkie 10-05-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmeck (Post 3931112)
My dog is smarter than most of you and has better manners.

Your party attached Obamacare to the budget.........made two separate issues one even though there was no way in hell it was going to go their way.

NEVER has this happened over a law, did you understand that ?

A law

Strip away all the regulations added to the law after it was originally passed, or at least take away Congress's exemption and allow the for individual delay to match the corporations, and you can still keep the rest of the 20,000 pages of regulations.

http://muddlingtowardmaturity.typepa...d4df970b-320wi
http://netrightdaily.com/wp-content/...nfographic.jpg

Jetmeck 10-05-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkie (Post 3931195)
Strip away all the regulations added to the law after it was originally passed, or at least take away Congress's exemption and allow the for individual delay to match the corporations, and you can still keep the rest of the 20,000 pages of regulations.

http://muddlingtowardmaturity.typepa...d4df970b-320wi
http://netrightdaily.com/wp-content/...nfographic.jpg


Like most of you clowns, you don't know the facts.

However that said who doesn't know that most business already offer helathcare......it seems you are b****ing about a very, very small percentage.

Individuals without healthcare are OBVIOUSLY the target of the law.

Individuals will be the core of the plan and with out these people the plan will not work.

So you are back to defunding and repealing, pure and simple.

Read this looney tunes and reply since none of your republican bretheren have the balls to do so..............


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=112401


Obamacare is saving me hundreds already due to wellcare visits and possibly saved my wifes life............not to mention saving 200 hundred a month on my kids healthcare without any subsidies.

You guys have no clue what you are talking about.

I have real life evidence of that................


Just one more example of your sides incompetence...........

Congress's so called exemption was put in the bill by a republican

senator named Grassley..........it also forces lawmakers to join the

pool with the rest of us. Forcing them off their wonderful top notch

plans they have now.

Whys did Grassley do this ? Because he thought he would get more

NO VOTES TO NOT PASS OBAMACARE.


Republican backfire and they have the nerve to b**** about it.


This bill can and will be amended just like SS and Medicare have

been but not with you wack jobs pointing a gun or holding hostages.

Do it normal business or go **** yourselves.

Jetmeck 10-05-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBII (Post 3931169)
Coming from the guys up who lubed Obamacare up in their Demonpass budgetary wrapper to avoid normal Senate parliamentary procedures, this is pretty rich.

There is no lever your heros won't pull. Get used to them reaping more of what they've sown.


Not gonna happen, check out the polls smart ass. 75% agree you ****ed up................

You smart boys drove right into a dead end street.

Public is gonna ass rape you at the polls if you don't open the governement soon...............

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun 10-05-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmeck (Post 3931204)
Not gonna happen, check out the polls smart ass. 75% agree you ****ed up................

You smart boys drove right into a dead end street.

Public is gonna ass rape you at the polls if you don't open the governement soon...............

Really? Why then is Obama and Reid all freaking out right now? You think the Repubs don't have the polls that are saying the exact same thing yours say?

BroncoBeavis 10-05-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmeck (Post 3931204)
Not gonna happen, check out the polls smart ass. 75% agree you ****ed up.................

Iraq polled really well at first too. Better to be on the wrong side of the polls than the wrong side of history. Elections are over a year away. Lots of time for the ACA Implosion.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/03/ju...-in-obamacares

Quote:

“Very, very few people that we’re aware of have enrolled in the federal exchange,” said one insurance industry official, who like many in the industry, spoke on the condition of anonymity out of concern for possibly offending the Obama administration. “We are talking single digits.”
Oh noes. We cants Offend the Obama administrations! We just cants! LOL

Jetmeck 10-05-2013 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBII (Post 3931242)
Iraq polled really well at first too. Better to be on the wrong side of the polls than the wrong side of history. Elections are over a year away. Lots of time for the ACA Implosion.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/03/ju...-in-obamacares



Oh noes. We cants Offend the Obama administrations! We just cants! LOL



Wait so your saying that 75% of the people are wrong and don't understand whats going on ?

Really believe that ?



Your comment about enrolling may very well be true but millions have been on the site looking around. They have six months to decide.
Most people don't make snap decisions on important things. Also lots of choices.

Even without the exchange my kids insurance rates will drop 200 hundred a month because of Obamacare.

SO lets see your wrong, don't believe polls like when Romney was losing for example and Obamacare is lowering costs and because the website have glitches even though millions have been looking into it so that makes it a failure ?


Go to the corner and shut up.

Jetmeck 10-05-2013 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateHoboW/Shotgun (Post 3931216)
Really? Why then is Obama and Reid all freaking out right now? You think the Repubs don't have the polls that are saying the exact same thing yours say?


No repubs do not have ANY polls showing they are winning this politically..............wanna argue about the Romney polls as well dumbass ?

Again you clowns will argue black was white if it served your purpose and ignore every fact along the way.

I would vote for ANYONE that had a better idea of either party.

Right now a few of your party is holding the whole country hostage by combining Obamacare that already been decided into the budget.

The real clicher is you retards know the dems ACCEPTED the repubs sequestor level budget numbers........accepted their numbers exactly as offered.............complete compromise to your side.

**** you republicans

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun 10-06-2013 09:46 PM

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DEEALSMrXJk?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun 10-06-2013 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmeck (Post 3931380)
No repubs do not have ANY polls showing they are winning this politically..............wanna argue about the Romney polls as well dumbass ?

Again you clowns will argue black was white if it served your purpose and ignore every fact along the way.

I would vote for ANYONE that had a better idea of either party.

Right now a few of your party is holding the whole country hostage by combining Obamacare that already been decided into the budget.

The real clicher is you retards know the dems ACCEPTED the repubs sequestor level budget numbers........accepted their numbers exactly as offered.............complete compromise to your side.

**** you republicans

You're guys are still freaking out. LOL. If you're winning, you're not freaking out.


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