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-   -   Broncos at Giants – Battling the Over Front (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=112052)

TheReverend 09-12-2013 11:48 AM

Broncos at Giants – Battling the Over Front
 
Earlier this week on the podcast, I mentioned one key match-up for the coming Manning Bowl: Julius Thomas vs. Justin Tuck when NY shifts into the over front:

http://patrickturley.org/wp-content/...in-300x148.png

We can expect to see Kiwi over Clady’s shoulder in the 5 technique or open end, Cullen Jenkins at the nose over Manny’s left shoulder (1 technique), Joseph in a 3 technique under tackle sitting in the B-gap on Vasquez’s right shoulder, and Justin Tuck heads up on Julius in a wide-9 technique as the closed end.

Clearly this is a match-up the Giants hope to exploit with even more regularity than a Von Miller arrest warrant, so what can Gase and Manning do to prevent NY from exploiting this match-up without blowing a timeout to substitute in a two TE set? Check to the run! A weakside handoff gives Denver a substantial matchup advantage as Clady matches up on Kiwanuka as he tries to control the C gap while squeezing the B, Beadles does what he does best upfield and seals the Sam-backer (Keith Rivers), and our mammoth perimeter receivers successfully block subpar corners a foot smaller.

It’s interesting to note that if Denver were still a read-option team (2011-the Tebow year), they could have Julius chip and release to the second level to seal off the will backer and run the option at—and functionally PAST—Tuck and get the one-on-one against the safety (Rolle) for 6. The Giants can expect division rivals Philly and/or Washington to execute this if and when the front presents itself.

More of my ramblings at: http://patrickturley.org/broncos-at-...he-over-front/

TonyR 09-12-2013 11:53 AM

Thanks Rev, good stuff. No mention of JPP?

ColoradoDarin 09-12-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Offense:
Will score like crazy until proven otherwise.
I laughed. Because it's true.

pricejj 09-12-2013 12:15 PM

Great follow up after peaking interest in the podcast.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty much the only difference between the over and under front is that the SAM (for us Von) backs of the LOS and shifts to the weakside? If that's the case, Broncos actually played a little of the over front in preseason with mixed results I think.

Mediator12 09-12-2013 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 3913104)
Earlier this week on the podcast, I mentioned one key match-up for the coming Manning Bowl: Julius Thomas vs. Justin Tuck when NY shifts into the over front:

http://patrickturley.org/wp-content/...in-300x148.png

We can expect to see Kiwi over Clady’s shoulder in the 5 technique or open end, Cullen Jenkins at the nose over Manny’s left shoulder (1 technique), Joseph in a 3 technique under tackle sitting in the B-gap on Vasquez’s right shoulder, and Justin Tuck heads up on Julius in a wide-9 technique as the closed end.

Clearly this is a match-up the Giants hope to exploit with even more regularity than a Von Miller arrest warrant, so what can Gase and Manning do to prevent NY from exploiting this match-up without blowing a timeout to substitute in a two TE set? Check to the run! A weakside handoff gives Denver a substantial matchup advantage as Clady matches up on Kiwanuka as he tries to control the C gap while squeezing the B, Beadles does what he does best upfield and seals the Sam-backer (Keith Rivers), and our mammoth perimeter receivers successfully block subpar corners a foot smaller.

It’s interesting to note that if Denver were still a read-option team (2011-the Tebow year), they could have Julius chip and release to the second level to seal off the will backer and run the option at—and functionally PAST—Tuck and get the one-on-one against the safety (Rolle) for 6. The Giants can expect division rivals Philly and/or Washington to execute this if and when the front presents itself.

More of my ramblings at: http://patrickturley.org/broncos-at-...he-over-front/

Interesting, but I would prefer splitting Thomas out in that situation and making the LB declare pre-snap. Keep Thomas out of that situation IMHO, and Let Manning rotate protection to Franklin if needed.

BTW, I love the Pistol so Manning can fan protections without giving it away by moving the RB.

Also, I do hope we attack Tuck in the run game and see how disciplined he is. He has had a tendency to attack the gap and get trapped when he thinks its a pass. See INDY game a few Years ago when they tried to let the run game beat them and INDY busted out 200+ yards!

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pricejj (Post 3913138)
Great follow up after peaking interest in the podcast.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty much the only difference between the over and under front is that the SAM (for us Von) backs of the LOS and shifts to the weakside? If that's the case, Broncos actually played a little of the over front in preseason with mixed results I think.

Sorta. Errything gets backwards. You're right that the Sam comes off the LOS and shifts to the weakside, but because all of the backers flip. Will swaps sides with him. Gaps responsibilities totally flip too.

Sec, let me upload some pics that you'll want

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:23 PM

Here Price:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps46f1cd2d.png

Kaylore 09-12-2013 12:27 PM

So does the nose two-gap in our under?

(jeez, that sentence looks like broken English.)

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore (Post 3913156)
So does the nose two-gap in our under?

(jeez, that sentence looks like broken English.)

Ha, yes, keying Center.

Mediator12 09-12-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore (Post 3913156)
So does the nose two-gap in our under?

(jeez, that sentence looks like broken English.)

It all depends on the coverage, but generally no he has a one gap assignment. DC's at this level will also run a few wrinkles like having the NT double gap occasionally to fool the OL and protection schemes on tape.

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mediator12 (Post 3913160)
It all depends on the coverage, but generally no he has a one gap assignment. DC's at this level will also run a few wrinkles like having the NT double gap occasionally to fool the OL and protection schemes on tape.

False. And coverages will only ever dictate linebacker running gap responsibilities.

Kaylore 09-12-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 3913157)
yes, keying Center.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mediator12 (Post 3913160)
generally no

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8...hxxmo1_500.gif

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore (Post 3913164)

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps49de6c9a.png

Irish Stout 09-12-2013 12:39 PM

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Stout (Post 3913166)
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

There's nothing to fight about.

If someone accidentally said 2+2=3 you correct them and move on.

Rabb 09-12-2013 12:41 PM

2+2=5, everyone knows that

Mediator12 09-12-2013 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 3913161)
False. And coverages will only ever dictate linebacker running gap responsibilities.

I am stupid and old. I meant Stunts, not coverages. However, they still do not two gap they play the ball to or away, not two gaps....

Irish Stout 09-12-2013 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 3913168)
There's nothing to fight about.

If someone accidentally said 2+2=3 you correct them and move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mediator12 (Post 3913174)
I am stupid and old. I meant Stunts, not coverages. However, they still do not two gap they play the ball to or away, not two gaps....

Worst. Fight. Ever.

Thanks Rev. This stuff is great! I hope you keep it up through the season!

Houshyamama 09-12-2013 12:44 PM

So, based on what you wrote, I'm guessing this are how the techniques line up?

http://i.imgur.com/3LdgL7U.jpg

What is the wide-9?

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mediator12 (Post 3913174)
I am stupid and old. I meant Stunts, not coverages. However, they still do not two gap they play the ball to or away, not two gaps....

Only matters for ends and backers :)

Eldorado 09-12-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 3913157)
Ha, yes, keying Center.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mediator12 (Post 3913160)
It all depends on the coverage, but generally no he has a one gap assignment. DC's at this level will also run a few wrinkles like having the NT double gap occasionally to fool the OL and protection schemes on tape.

Think you two ****ing idiots can get on the same page? TIA :wiggle::-*

Rohirrim 09-12-2013 12:45 PM

Nah. This is wrong. You go to the bubble screen. :puff:

TheReverend 09-12-2013 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houshyamama (Post 3913176)
So, based on what you wrote, I'm guessing this are how the techniques line up?

http://i.imgur.com/3LdgL7U.jpg

What is the wide-9?

Top left pic:

http://media.nj.com/gloucester-sport...ee637ee683.jpg

Houshyamama 09-12-2013 12:47 PM

OK, that makes sense. Thanks!

CEH 09-12-2013 12:48 PM

I feel pretty good about Denver vs the Giants Lber corp.


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