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-   -   Raise minimum wage to $15/hr? (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=111304)

TonyR 06-25-2013 12:28 PM

Raise minimum wage to $15/hr?
 
Quote:

The fundamental law of capitalism is that if workers have no money, businesses have no customers. Thatís why the extreme, and widening, wealth gap in our economy presents not just a moral challenge, but an economic one, too. In a capitalist system, rising inequality creates a death spiral of falling demand that ultimately takes everyone down.

Low-wage jobs are fast replacing middle-class ones in the U.S. economy. Sixty percent of the jobs lost in the last recession were middle-income, while 59 percent of the new positions during the past two years of recovery were in low-wage industries that continue to expand such as retail, food services, cleaning and health-care support. By 2020, 48 percent of jobs will be in those service sectors.

Policy makers debate incremental changes for arresting this vicious cycle. But perhaps the most powerful and elegant antidote is sitting right before us: a spike in the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour.

True, that sounds like a lot. When President Barack Obama called in February for an increase to $9 an hour from $7.25, he was accused of being a dangerous redistributionist. Yet consider this: If the minimum wage had simply tracked U.S. productivity gains since 1968, it would be $21.72 an hour -- three times what it is now.

Cultivating Consumers

Traditionally, arguments for big minimum-wage increases come from labor unions and advocates for the poor. I make the case as a businessman and entrepreneur who sees our millions of low-paid workers as customers to be cultivated and not as costs to be cut.

Hereís a bottom-line example: My investment portfolio includes Pacific Coast Feather Co., one of the largest U.S. manufacturers of bed pillows. Like many other manufacturers, pillow-makers are struggling because of weak demand. The problem comes down to this: My annual earnings equal about 1,000 times the U.S. median wage, but I donít consume 1,000 times more pillows than the average American. Even the richest among us only need one or two to rest their heads at night.

An economy such as ours that increasingly concentrates wealth in the top 1 percent, and where most workers must rely on stagnant or falling wages, isnít a place to build much of a pillow business, or any other business for that matter.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would inject about $450 billion into the economy each year. That would give more purchasing power to millions of poor and lower-middle-class Americans, and would stimulate buying, production and hiring.
Read the rest here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...imum-wage.html

TonyR 06-25-2013 12:32 PM

This guy agrees. Both good reads.

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmo...wage-stimulus/

Pony Boy 06-26-2013 11:50 AM

Yes, we should raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour because I'm sure that a business would not pass that increase on to the consumers. Why not just print more money and give every family in the U.S. a million dollars? There would no longer be any poverty in America, why didn't we think of this earlier?

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 11:54 AM

If they did that i would get a part time job doing something really easy for like maybe another 20 hours a week. Probably just down at a local music store. But right now they pay like 10 bucks an hour so I dont see how they would survive having to pay 15.

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 11:55 AM

Hernandez shuld have grabbed what money he could and headed straight for an airport to Russia.

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 11:56 AM

Tom Brady must be sitting around right now saying to himself what the **** happened to my offense?

Welker gone, Woodhead gone, Gronk injured, Hernandez a murderer, and Lloyd makes people want to puke so they cut him also. Maybe they were afraid hernandez would kill lloyd but ya know, now they can bring him back? :)

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 11:58 AM

Holy cow he is on tape coming home with a gun lol. He's getting life in prison. He's friggin the new Oj Simpson.

houghtam 06-26-2013 12:00 PM

I wonder if people having more disposable income will have an effect on commerce. It's not like we have any statistics on that.

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 12:06 PM

I'd love for our workforce to be so skilled and all the jobs good enough to pay everyone 15 20 bucks an hour. The reality is though that some jobs not worth 15 bucks an hour Houghtam.

Fedaykin 06-26-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 3869110)
I wonder if people having more disposable income will have an effect on commerce. It's not like we have any statistics on that.

Totally sillyness. We all know that money sitting in an account in the Caymen Islands does a lot more for our economy.

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 12:42 PM

Well fed are you talking about illegal money taxes not paid on? Or are you talking about profits earned overseas not returned to the USA? Because that is a huge issue and i would love to talk about it. I have tried several times but no one seems to see what a huge disaster our corp tax law is.

We need to go to a dual zone system where domestic rate and international rates are different. Companies dont bring the money home because after earning it they pay big fees to the host countries. If they bring it back to the USA it gets taxed again so they just leave it offshore in some country that wont tax it.

This is all legal and most be changed. For one it puts domestic corp not making money overseas at a disadvantage. For another we want that money re-invested in America, and we want some of the tax right?

We need a tax % high enough to make some revenue, low enough to make companies still competitive overseas, but then also a law forcing them to bring at least half of what they make overseas home.

There is billions just sitting out there waiting to come home to america.

TonyR 06-26-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 3869110)
I wonder if people having more disposable income will have an effect on commerce. It's not like we have any statistics on that.

It's clear that neither Pony nor cut read either article.

errand 06-26-2013 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyR (Post 3869280)
It's clear that neither Pony nor cut read either article.

So why stop at $15 hr?

Why not make it $20 hr?

Why not just make it $50,000 a year?

peacepipe 06-26-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3869214)
Well fed are you talking about illegal money taxes not paid on? Or are you talking about profits earned overseas not returned to the USA? Because that is a huge issue and i would love to talk about it. I have tried several times but no one seems to see what a huge disaster our corp tax law is.

We need to go to a dual zone system where domestic rate and international rates are different. Companies dont bring the money home because after earning it they pay big fees to the host countries. If they bring it back to the USA it gets taxed again so they just leave it offshore in some country that wont tax it.

This is all legal and most be changed. For one it puts domestic corp not making money overseas at a disadvantage. For another we want that money re-invested in America, and we want some of the tax right?

We need a tax % high enough to make some revenue, low enough to make companies still competitive overseas, but then also a law forcing them to bring at least half of what they make overseas home.

There is billions just sitting out there waiting to come home to america.

****'em it's the cost of doing business overseas. The U.S. owes them no favors for making a business decision to go overseas. Don't like paying 2+ countries taxes stay stateside.

peacepipe 06-26-2013 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by errand (Post 3869293)
So why stop at $15 hr?

Why not make it $20 hr?

Why not just make it $50,000 a year?

Why not! We live in consumer based economy.

Rohirrim 06-26-2013 02:54 PM

Bunch of soshalist redistributionist bastages!

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont...cutive-pay.png

errand 06-26-2013 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacepipe (Post 3869322)
Why not! We live in consumer based economy.

Now when we do that, what do suppose we should do about those $49 cheeseburgers and $35 small fries?

txtebow 06-26-2013 06:37 PM

I am very concerned for the future of this country and the shrinking middle class. I've been fortunate (as have 2 of my 3 brothers) as we've been able to enter lucrative career fields and had decent financial success even though we came from an average middle class background. But we are more and more the exception rather than the rule and as a father of 5, I genuinely fear for my childrens economic futures. A minimum wage increase for ADULT workers (over age 18) should be instituted. I personally feel as though $12/hr (~$24K a year) is a sufficient wage to pay for an entry level position. That goes from being a cashier at Walmart to flipping burgers. As a business owner and healthcare professional I love profit as much as the next business man, but I also make a point to reward those who in their daily efforts support the overall processes by which we earn capital. $12/hr is fair.

houghtam 06-26-2013 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txtebow (Post 3869570)
I am very concerned for the future of this country and the shrinking middle class. I've been fortunate (as have 2 of my 3 brothers) as we've been able to enter lucrative career fields and had decent financial success even though we came from an average middle class background. But we are more and more the exception rather than the rule and as a father of 5, I genuinely fear for my childrens economic futures. A minimum wage increase for ADULT workers (over age 18) should be instituted. I personally feel as though $12/hr (~$24K a year) is a sufficient wage to pay for an entry level position. That goes from being a cashier at Walmart to flipping burgers. As a business owner and healthcare professional I love profit as much as the next business man, but I also make a point to reward those who in their daily efforts support the overall processes by which we earn capital. $12/hr is fair.

There still needs to be a minimum wage for minors.

Adults who are still listed as dependents by their parents should not be able to reap full minimum wage, either. (If its being raised to a livable wage)

peacepipe 06-26-2013 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by errand (Post 3869511)
Now when we do that, what do suppose we should do about those $49 cheeseburgers and $35 small fries?

It will never happen,cause business owners know no one will pay that much for a burger. They'll go out of business. They'll have to eat the cost. They can take a little less profit and stay in business or go out of business cause they wanna be greedy. There's a reality all business owners know,it's not what they want for a product,it's what someone is willing to pay for it.

houghtam 06-26-2013 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacepipe (Post 3869623)
It will never happen,cause business owners know no one will pay that much for a burger. They'll go out of business. They'll have to eat the cost. They can take a little less profit and stay in business or go out of business cause they wanna be greedy. There's a reality all business owners know,it's not what they want for a product,it's what someone is willing to pay for it.

Perfect example of the mentality of supply side economics. "If we raise the minimum wage, businesses will be able to charge whatever they want and people will HAVE to pay it."

Meanwhile, sane people everywhere realize that if the market truly determines price, businesses will only charge what people are willing to pay, and people aren't going to pay $10 for a burger at McDonald's just because they're making $25k now.

It's weird how the conservative mantra is always to let the market determine prices, but when faced with the reality of that actually happening, they can't really seem to connect the dots.

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 09:32 PM

Umm houghtam you cant force wages to be high then say let the market set the prices. You are not letting the market set the wage and that throws your whole theory out the door.

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 09:34 PM

Lets face it at 15 bucks an hour fast food places would close, discount markets would close, hours at stores would be cut, man who knows what would happen but it wouldn't be good for low wage workers.

So houghtam how much extra money do movie theaters have? Do you think they could pay 15 bucks an hour to everyone?

cutthemdown 06-26-2013 09:36 PM

I'm interested to know what you think. I work with top management for arc light cinema and for Pacific Theaters and from what i have seen they would not be in business if they had to pay the crap workers 15 bucks an hour and the good ones even more. You agree that if you make 15 bucks min wage it would not be fair to the ones who worked 10 yrs to get to 15 bucks an hour right? So they would have to get a raise right?

houghtam 06-26-2013 09:48 PM

#1 - People leave Netflix in droves after a mere announcement that they were raising rates, and you're talking about companies raising prices of hamburgers.

#2 - You don't work with top management at Pacific and Arclight. Your company represents them. YOU are a glorified file clerk and don't have a clue what you're talking about.

#3 - With the txtebow/houghtam bipartisan minimum wage plan (LOL) is actually perfect for theaters as well as fast food, retailers, etc. You simply only allow the upper end minimum wage law to take effect for those who are not claimed as dependents. Don't tie it to age, as that could be challenged for age discrimination, but to my knowledge, there is nothing against discrimatoon based on dependent status. Those types of jobs are great for young people...at my last location there were three maybe four employees (out of about 50) who weren't still claimed by their parents.


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