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-   -   Obama Sending Arms to Syria (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=111228)

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 06:44 AM

Obama Sending Arms to Syria
 
Stupid move, IMHO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3438625.html

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 07:03 AM

CIA is already carrying out training operations. They're just advisers. I've heard that somewhere before.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 07:03 AM

Great Clinton calls him a wussy and he cracks. I'd rather drop bombs for them then do this. You know Rho then every once in awhile we say ooops did we drop that on Al Queda leadership? Our bad fog of war and all ya know? Giving them weapons is idiotic. If you want to finish assad finish him the same way you did Gaddaffi.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 07:05 AM

Big deal shoulder fired anti tank weapons wont turn the battle. Only air support helps win this thing.

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 07:07 AM

Once again, we're carrying out the same idiotic pattern as we have so many times in the past; Sticking our noses in somebody else's civil war. It's a no-win situation. We seem unable to learn from history.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 07:14 AM

I doubt this gets too messy. Fact is Assad is going to have to go at some point. The question is how long do we want it to take. I don't see how small arms and anti tank missiles will turn the battle but I guess it could. IMO you need some air strikes.

Remember Iraq was a cakewalk but Bush decided to try and play Rome and rebuild the place. As long as Obama doesn't care about the infrastructure or security of the govt he leaves behind he can finish assad rather easily I would think.

Its more he wanted to try and have a great 2nd term. I doubt all these scandals then another war is really great for that 2014 liberal turnout.

Requiem 06-14-2013 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 3862321)
Once again, we're carrying out the same idiotic pattern as we have so many times in the past; Sticking our noses in somebody else's civil war. It's a no-win situation. We seem unable to learn from history.

I have no idea why this is the case, but you certainly are right. It is just depressing seeing this sort of thing. Outside a few instances of operations overseas, we haven't done anything substantial or successful since WWII -- at least in my opinion.

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3862325)
I doubt this gets too messy. Fact is Assad is going to have to go at some point. The question is how long do we want it to take. I don't see how small arms and anti tank missiles will turn the battle but I guess it could. IMO you need some air strikes.

Remember Iraq was a cakewalk but Bush decided to try and play Rome and rebuild the place. As long as Obama doesn't care about the infrastructure or security of the govt he leaves behind he can finish assad rather easily I would think.

Its more he wanted to try and have a great 2nd term. I doubt all these scandals then another war is really great for that 2014 liberal turnout.

The American government seems unable to grasp the concept that some things are none of our business. George Washington warned them in his farewell address and they still can't figure it out.

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem (Post 3862333)
I have no idea why this is the case, but you certainly are right. It is just depressing seeing this sort of thing. Outside a few instances of operations overseas, we haven't done anything substantial or successful since WWII -- at least in my opinion.

It comes from the egotism and arrogance that gives some the belief that we can control all ends to our benefit. You have to have a certain amount of humility to accept the fact that this is just not true.

houghtam 06-14-2013 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 3862354)
It comes from the egotism and arrogance that gives some the belief that we can control all ends to our benefit. You have to have a certain amount of humility to accept the fact that this is just not true.

War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they will profit from it.

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 3862357)
War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they will profit from it.

That, and the military/industrial complex seems to wag the American dog.

06-14-2013 10:42 AM

I read an article that one of the Rebel commanders carves out the organs of his enemies and eats them on YouTube to intimidate and horrify the other side. I know weve pissed on some Korans and made human pyramids with naked Iqaqis...

but eating another human heart, raw... something tells me to stay the **** out of that region and that mess....

Bronco Yoda 06-14-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Large (Post 3862470)
I read an article that one of the Rebel commanders carves out the organs of his enemies and eats them on YouTube to intimidate and horrify the other side. I know weve pissed on some Korans and made human pyramids with naked Iqaqis...

but eating another human heart, raw... something tells me to stay the **** out of that region and that mess....

Hopefully he has the good sense to add some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 12:05 PM

What I also hope is that this is not just another cynical, geopolitical game where we give the rebels just enough guns and ammo to keep fighting, but not win, while Iran gets drawn in deeper and deeper. There are millions of innocent people in Syria who's lives are being destroyed. To draw it out for own purposes would be an act of unspeakable cruelty.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 01:10 PM

drawing it out is exactly what obama is doing Rho. It looks like American policy this time is let the islamists come to Syria to fight. If they are flocking to Syria then they can't go other places and attack us.

Funny though Roh because you can't help the civilians by staying out of it. If you do that they still get slaughtered. So which is it? do you care about civilians or not?

Rohirrim 06-14-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3862532)
drawing it out is exactly what obama is doing Rho. It looks like American policy this time is let the islamists come to Syria to fight. If they are flocking to Syria then they can't go other places and attack us.

Funny though Roh because you can't help the civilians by staying out of it. If you do that they still get slaughtered. So which is it? do you care about civilians or not?

When it comes to a civil war that we are not a party to, any action is going to be the wrong action. We can help Turkey and the other surrounding nations with refugee relief.

elsid13 06-14-2013 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3862320)
Big deal shoulder fired anti tank weapons wont turn the battle. Only air support helps win this thing.

Playing COD doesn't make you expert on military actions.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elsid13 (Post 3862540)
Playing COD doesn't make you expert on military actions.

So what? I can read what military experts say and that's air power needed to break the Syrian govt advantage. Thats like saying playing fantasy football doesn't make you an expert on football so why bother making any comments about what you think Broncos need to do to win.

So which is it do we have to be experts to give our opinions now?

elsid13 06-14-2013 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3862545)
So what? I can read what military experts say and that's air power needed to break the Syrian govt advantage. Thats like saying playing fantasy football doesn't make you an expert on football so why bother making any comments about what you think Broncos need to do to win.

So which is it do we have to be experts to give our opinions now?

No you don't need to expert to express your opinion, but you should at least want to have informed statement before you throw stuff out. Air power by itself will not provide either tactical or operational advantage needed at this point to change current kinetic actions. Right now the various rebel groups are relying on civilian small arms, M40 recoilless rifles and self made Anti-armor munitions to counter Syrian government advantage of APV (Soviet/Russian BMP and their variants) in urban environments. Inability to operate in urban environments is hinder the rebel movement ability to turn the fight and lengthening the conflict.

So having Anti-armor munitions will grant them an immediate tactical advantage, something they won't get from air support because their is no C2 ability at this moment to coordinate actions. Plus because we have not begun air defense suppression actions, air support is at least 3 to 4 months off, while anti tank weapons could start having effects within a month.

Giving us breathing room to be begin building the required logistic and training support that going to be needed to support this movement.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 02:49 PM

meh all BS unless we use air power Assad won't fall. Sure anti tank weapons will help but it won't be enough. Assad will still have them outgunned with artilliary, helicopters, air strikes. Really unless Obama sets up a no fly zone I doubt Assad falls.

Now I do agree they would have to take out the air defenses etc first and it would take some time but that goes without saying.

Obama afraid to wade in and instead is doing the least amount he can without doing nothing.

Bill Clinton right he is a wuss.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 02:53 PM

Besides Elsid they are already getting small arms and rocket propelled grenades through Saudi Arabia, who gets them from us. So really Obamas announcement is all just grandstanding and means nothing on the ground in Syria. They already have shoulder fired weapons and small arms. They need a no fly zone to set up rebel bases in free from attack. They need air power called in to help them advance on key installations.

But..... like i said i don't think Obama wants them to win, at least not yet.

Smiling Assassin27 06-14-2013 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 3862306)



/end thread


Dudes in a race with W to the bottom. Somewhere Cheney is climaxing.

elsid13 06-14-2013 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3862563)
Besides Elsid they are already getting small arms and rocket propelled grenades through Saudi Arabia, who gets them from us. So really Obamas announcement is all just grandstanding and means nothing on the ground in Syria. They already have shoulder fired weapons and small arms. They need a no fly zone to set up rebel bases in free from attack. They need air power called in to help them advance on key installations.

But..... like i said i don't think Obama wants them to win, at least not yet.

U.S. officials are expected to meet with Gen. Salim Idriss, head of the rebel Supreme Military Council, over the next two days to discuss details of military assistance that Washington can provide. Rebel leaders said Idriss will urge the U.S. officials to offer a wider range of support.

“We welcome the decision, but it is a late step. And if they send small arms, how can small arms make a difference?” said Louay al-Mokdad, political and media coordinator for the Free Syria Army. “They should help us with real weapons, antitank and antiaircraft, and with armored vehicles, training and a no-fly zone

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...8f8_story.html

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 3862346)
The American government seems unable to grasp the concept that some things are none of our business. George Washington warned them in his farewell address and they still can't figure it out.

You seem to lack a grasp of what American policy has been since ww2. Everything is our business.

cutthemdown 06-14-2013 04:27 PM

Exactly Elsid the want a no fly zone and without out this is not much. Thanks for proving my point.


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