The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community

The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/index.php)
-   Orange Mane Central Discussion (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Ball and Webster, what do they need to do to prove themselves? (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=110867)

JCMElway 04-28-2013 09:34 AM

Ball and Webster, what do they need to do to prove themselves?
 
With a low 2nd and 3rd round pick spent on Ball and Webster, what is their measuring stick for success; this year and in 3-5 years?

This year I would like Ball to become part of a rotation, run for 700+ yards, and score 6+ TDs.

Over the long haul I would like to see him be our feature back (with a 60/40 split of touches) and average 1,300 all purpose yards with 10+ TDs.

Webster -- This year, to become a contributor in a nickel/dime package and on special teams. Over time, a #1 or #2 startng CB after Champ retires. Does he need to be a pro bowler? No. He doesn't need to be Champ. Just a solid starter.

BroncoMan4ever 04-28-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCMElway (Post 3839867)
With a low 2nd and 3rd round pick spent on Ball and Webster, what is their measuring stick for success; this year and in 3-5 years?

This year I would like Ball to become part of a rotation, run for 700+ yards, and score 6+ TDs.

Over the long haul I would like to see him be our feature back (with a 60/40 split of touches) and average 1,300 all purpose yards with 10+ TDs.

Webster -- This year, to become a contributor in a nickel/dime package and on special teams. Over time, a #1 or #2 startng CB after Champ retires. Does he need to be a pro bowler? No. He doesn't need to be Champ. Just a solid starter.

Anything less than 1200 yards rushing, 300 receiving and 12 total TDs is a poor showing by Ball. He has to be a difference maker. 700 yards and 6 TDs is what Moreno or McGahee would give us. He is supposed to be an upgrade, the numbers need to be a lot better than what our holdovers could have done, especially since McGahee is probably gone, KnoShow if he stays is in and out of the lineup so much he is almost a non factor like Lance Ball. Montee needs to be the feature back from day 1.

I'd like Webster to be what you describe but for a kid I've never heard of, I'll be happy if he becomes a good option as a Nickel or Dime corner.

Gutless Drunk 04-28-2013 10:00 AM

"Both Ball and Webster were Broncos fans long before they got the call Friday night. Ball said he patterned himself after Terrell Davis and Webster counts Champ Bailey as his lifelong idol.

Webster said he hopes to get a locker next to Bailey’s so he can pick his brain.

Asked if he had spoken with him yet, Webster said, “No, I haven’t. I’ve talked to Peyton, though. He texted me last night, told me it’s time to work. So, when Peyton texts ‘It’s time to work,’ it’s time to work.”

Ball also got a text from Manning, although he went through the long congratulatory message before realizing who the sender was.

“He texted me, ‘Congratulations. We’re really proud of what you’ve done. All the players are really glad you’re coming in our program.’ He also said, ‘We really loved your work ethic and we hope that continues when you get here,’” Ball recounted. “I didn’t know who was saying all this, obviously it was a player, until I got to the end and it said, ‘Peyton Manning.’

“I was like, ‘Whoa!’ Oh my gosh!’”

Ball hit reply — “immediately.”

“I told him, ‘Thank you, and most definitely, it’s time to go to work.’”

Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/engl...#ixzz2RmJR6moe

baja 04-28-2013 10:28 AM

From the same article;

n the sixth round, the Broncos added athletic, versatile offensive lineman Vinston Painter of Virginia Tech. At 6-foot-6, 309 pounds, Painter can play either left or right tackle and also either guard position.

The Broncos have four starters along the offensive line who are coming off surgeries that will limit their offseason field work, including Ryan Clady (shoulder), who hasn’t signed his franchise tender while awaiting negotiations on a long-term megadeal this summer. Also rehabbing are Orlando Franklin (toe, shoulder), Chris Kuper (ankle) and J.D. Walton (knee).



Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/engl...#ixzz2RmQbGdoQ

baja 04-28-2013 10:35 AM

Anyone know what Webster's wonderlic score was?

DBroncos4life 04-28-2013 10:45 AM

Ball, just pick up the first downs when we go ground and pound.
Webster, just slow down TE's enough to let our front four get to the QB.

FireFly 04-28-2013 08:19 PM

This year for me Ball needs to share the carries this year - at least 40% he also needs to show that he can pick up 3rd and 3 or shorter consistently.

Webster, he just needs to see the field on a regular basis and not get completely shown up. If he's our No. 4 then he will have done well.

Both would obviously need to improve on that going into year 2.

pricejj 04-28-2013 09:04 PM

1. I hope Ball can come in training camp and look like an impact starting RB right away, giving the Broncos an option to go in whatever direction they choose.

2. I hope Webster can come in and get some buzz in training camp, continue to improve, and show a fast learning curve in press-man skills..

Baba Booey 04-28-2013 09:06 PM

I think Webster's role will be predominantly on special teams in year one. He's got four proven corners ahead of him and Bolden to compete with for the fifth spot.

Bigdawg26 04-28-2013 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baba Booey (Post 3840185)
I think Webster's role will be predominantly on special teams in year one. He's got four proven corners ahead of him and Bolden to compete with for the fifth spot.

This. But I think Ball play the same role as Willis did last year. Ball might get 1000 yards this season.

maher_tyler 04-28-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever (Post 3839873)
Anything less than 1200 yards rushing, 300 receiving and 12 total TDs is a poor showing by Ball. He has to be a difference maker. 700 yards and 6 TDs is what Moreno or McGahee would give us. He is supposed to be an upgrade, the numbers need to be a lot better than what our holdovers could have done, especially since McGahee is probably gone, KnoShow if he stays is in and out of the lineup so much he is almost a non factor like Lance Ball. Montee needs to be the feature back from day 1.

I'd like Webster to be what you describe but for a kid I've never heard of, I'll be happy if he becomes a good option as a Nickel or Dime corner.

I think your expectations are a little high. Considering he will likely be sharing carries with at least 2 other guys. If he has those stats he's easily rookie of the year and we most likely will have the #1 seed in the AFC.

BroncoMan4ever 04-28-2013 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maher_tyler (Post 3840195)
I think your expectations are a little high. Considering he will likely be sharing carries with at least 2 other guys. If he has those stats he's easily rookie of the year and we most likely will have the #1 seed in the AFC.

what 2 other guys? before injury it was the Willis show in Denver with Ball getting a few carries and Hillman the occasional play. Moreno was inactive the majority of the season. McGahee's price tag is too high for a backup and he doesn't help special teams so is more than likely gone. Moreno's role if he remains on the team will probably be the same as last season. Emergency in case of injury, otherwise inactive most of the time. Ball will split carries with Hillman. Probably at a rate of 2 carries to every 1 Hillman gets. Lance gets the occasional carry giving the starter a breather.

Ball was drafted to be an impact player from day 1, not in a year or 2. because of that the expectations need to be high. Average stats is what we have had for years, it is time for above average output.

fontaine 04-29-2013 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever (Post 3840199)
Ball was drafted to be an impact player from day 1, not in a year or 2. because of that the expectations need to be high. Average stats is what we have had for years, it is time for above average output.

Except that's not what you said. You're expecting 1200 yards rushing with 300 yards receiving (even though we've got 4 better pass catchers in DT, Decker, Wes, Tamme) with 12 total TDs.

TD in his rookie season put up lesser numbers, so yeah your expectations are not grounded in reality.

cutthemdown 04-29-2013 03:52 AM

All draft picks have the same path to prove themselves. You have to get on the football field and make plays. Then at some point you have to start. Otherwise you don't ever matter and are forgotten quickly.

kent156 04-29-2013 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life (Post 3839897)
Ball, just pick up the first downs when we go ground and pound.
Webster, just slow down TE's enough to let our front four get to the QB.


pretty much what I was thinking

04-29-2013 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever (Post 3839873)
Anything less than 1200 yards rushing, 300 receiving and 12 total TDs is a poor showing by Ball.

Hilarious!

Tomlinson didn't even reach all those numbers his rookie year and he was the 5th pick in the draft.

Adrian Peterson didn't reach all those numbers as a rookie either.

And they were at the center of the offense.

Anything LESS is a poor showing? In a pass heavy offense? While splitting carries?

So what are you saying? If he put up those numbers he'd be average?

He was drafted at the end of the 2nd in what is supposed to be, a bad draft class...

Your post is horrible beyond imagination.

Oh yeah, and lets not forget he's running behind a line that couldn't run block for **** last year..albeit the running plays called were horrible too.

04-29-2013 04:50 AM

Just be better than the last Ball we had on Offense and the last Webster we had on the D.

If they are contributors this year, and they should be, then it will have been a successful draft. Not sure where Webster sees the field though, unless he is going to be converted to safety?

barryr 04-29-2013 06:58 AM

Ball will get plenty of carries if not start. I could see Webster and King being gunners on ST's this year with their speed.

socalorado 04-29-2013 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever (Post 3840199)
what 2 other guys? before injury it was the Willis show in Denver with Ball getting a few carries and Hillman the occasional play. Moreno was inactive the majority of the season. McGahee's price tag is too high for a backup and he doesn't help special teams so is more than likely gone. Moreno's role if he remains on the team will probably be the same as last season. Emergency in case of injury, otherwise inactive most of the time. Ball will split carries with Hillman. Probably at a rate of 2 carries to every 1 Hillman gets. Lance gets the occasional carry giving the starter a breather.

Ball was drafted to be an impact player from day 1, not in a year or 2. because of that the expectations need to be high. Average stats is what we have had for years, it is time for above average output.

Exactly. Montee will be an impact player day 1. He is an experienced runner, who will need little coaching on the DEN scheme.
Unfortunately, this picked spelled the end of McGahee's career in DEN unless he took a big pay cut somehow. And Lance will stay as a healthy depth option.
I also agree. It will be a 2 to 1 spilt at the end of the season, if not even more for Montee.

socalorado 04-29-2013 07:20 AM

As for Webster, i honestly see that pick as a "big Nickel" safety/DB to cover TEs.

BroncoMan4ever 04-29-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine (Post 3840240)
Except that's not what you said. You're expecting 1200 yards rushing with 300 yards receiving (even though we've got 4 better pass catchers in DT, Decker, Wes, Tamme) with 12 total TDs.

TD in his rookie season put up lesser numbers, so yeah your expectations are not grounded in reality.

TD in his rookie season played 14 games and had over 1100 yards rushing and near 400 yards receiving to go along with 8 TDs. just about 1500 yards of total offensive output.

in today's pansy NFL and in this offense with Peyton leading it, meaning Ball will be seeing less 7 and 8 man fronts due to the defenses we face being spread out to stop the pass, there is no reason to not expect comparable or better numbers for Ball.

Hell, Willis last season before he was done for the year and even after a few nagging injuries and reduced playing time due to fumbling had 952 total yards of offensive output. (731 rushing, 221 receiving,) Which would have put him on track for season totals of, 1175 rushing and 350 receiving for about 7 TDs. Ball is here to replace him, and the younger replacement needs to be better.

you guys say i am expecting too much, looking at the stats of previous years, i don't think i am expecting enough.

BroncoMan4ever 04-29-2013 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Action (Post 3840249)
Hilarious!

Tomlinson didn't even reach all those numbers his rookie year and he was the 5th pick in the draft.

Adrian Peterson didn't reach all those numbers as a rookie either.

And they were at the center of the offense.

Anything LESS is a poor showing? In a pass heavy offense? While splitting carries?

So what are you saying? If he put up those numbers he'd be average?

He was drafted at the end of the 2nd in what is supposed to be, a bad draft class...

Your post is horrible beyond imagination.

Oh yeah, and lets not forget he's running behind a line that couldn't run block for **** last year..albeit the running plays called were horrible too.

Peterson had about 1350 yards rushing almost 300 receiving, and 13 TDs as a rookie. in an offense where he was the only weapon and keyed on by defenses. Ball in not the focal point of the offense. so no stacked fronts to stop him. he makes his reads like he can and hits the hole as quick as he does all year he could easily have a YPC average right around 5 and 250 carries is not out of the question for him, in fact it is a lighter load than he is used to carrying.

a lot of you are undervaluing the Peyton Aerial Attack. teams needing to bring in extra DBs to cover all his weapons, means Ball is going to have wider running lanes and be facing less big guys. our OL has been upgraded in the interior.

also Tomlinson had about 1250 rushing, and almost 400 receiving with 10 TDs his rookie year

i mean if you are going to try to bash my post, at least get the facts that you try to make me look bad right.

04-29-2013 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever (Post 3840404)
Peterson had about 1350 yards rushing almost 300 receiving, and 13 TDs as a rookie. in an offense where he was the only weapon and keyed on by defenses. Ball in not the focal point of the offense. so no stacked fronts to stop him. he makes his reads like he can and hits the hole as quick as he does all year he could easily have a YPC average right around 5 and 250 carries is not out of the question for him, in fact it is a lighter load than he is used to carrying.

a lot of you are undervaluing the Peyton Aerial Attack. teams needing to bring in extra DBs to cover all his weapons, means Ball is going to have wider running lanes and be facing less big guys. our OL has been upgraded in the interior.

also Tomlinson had about 1250 rushing, and almost 400 receiving with 10 TDs his rookie year

i mean if you are going to try to bash my post, at least get the facts that you try to make me look bad right.

Peterson DIDN'T have 300 yards receiving though.

Tomlinson DIDN'T have 12 TDs though.

So what I said was accurate, they didn't reach your video game standards. Obviously you're not being very rational when you start rounding numbers and manipulating them in your favor.

No one is undervaluing Peyton Aerial Attack, the point you're missing is that Ball won't even get enough opportunities to get those statistics since we have so many RBs back there.

On top of that, football is not as simple as you make it sound. If it was, you'd see much bigger holes in the running game last year. You didn't, we averaged 3.8 YPC.

But that's assuming you watched all the Broncos games last year...but with those statistics you threw out, I highly doubt you watched much of anything but fantasy football and madden.

04-29-2013 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Action (Post 3840817)
Peterson DIDN'T have 300 yards receiving though.

Tomlinson DIDN'T have 12 TDs though.

So what I said was accurate, they didn't reach your video game standards. Obviously you're not being very rational when you start rounding numbers and manipulating them in your favor.

No one is undervaluing Peyton Aerial Attack, the point you're missing is that Ball won't even get enough opportunities to get those statistics since we have so many RBs back there.

On top of that, football is not as simple as you make it sound. If it was, you'd see much bigger holes in the running game last year. You didn't, we averaged 3.8 YPC.

But that's assuming you watched all the Broncos games last year...but with those statistics you threw out, I highly doubt you watched much of anything but fantasy football and madden.

You can always count on Moreno and Mcgahee to get hurt and miss games. That leaves hillman and lance ball. Montee is better than both IMO. Should get more reps than them. The holes are there it's up the RBs vision. Alot of times I watched them run into an Olineman instead of seeing the hole.

BroncoMan4ever 04-29-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Action (Post 3840817)
Peterson DIDN'T have 300 yards receiving though.

Tomlinson DIDN'T have 12 TDs though.

So what I said was accurate, they didn't reach your video game standards. Obviously you're not being very rational when you start rounding numbers and manipulating them in your favor.

No one is undervaluing Peyton Aerial Attack, the point you're missing is that Ball won't even get enough opportunities to get those statistics since we have so many RBs back there.

On top of that, football is not as simple as you make it sound. If it was, you'd see much bigger holes in the running game last year. You didn't, we averaged 3.8 YPC.

But that's assuming you watched all the Broncos games last year...but with those statistics you threw out, I highly doubt you watched much of anything but fantasy football and madden.

All what RBs? You talk like we drafted Ball into a big settled backfield

McGahee...He is good as gone. Salary too high for a backup that has trouble holding onto the ball and doesn't play special teams.

Moreno...probably same role as last year if he makes the roster. Emergency guy who is inactive most of the season.

Lance Ball...he gets maybe 3 carries a game

Hillman...sure he is probably in line for a bigger workload but not more than around 8-10 carries and a few receptions a game.

What other backs are going to steal carries from Ball?

And with the 3.8 YPC average, that factors in Hillman and Moreno falling on shoestring tackles, running into the backs of linemen, seeing the hole too late or not at all. It also factors in a backup interior lineman for the year.

We upgraded the interior with Vasquez. Beadles and Kupe will compete for the LG spot and the best parts of. Ball's game are his vision, decision making and hitting the hole fast

Also McCoy was a terrible play caller especially on runs.


So hate on my standards, but at the end of the year when Ball has right around the stat line I said, remember who said it first.

Also just for your information. I don't play video games, so I haven't played Madden since like 2003 and I find fantasy football to be lame and don't play that either


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.