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-   -   Heller: If someone in the Aurora cinema was armed, this tragedy could have been avoided (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=110547)

03-23-2013 06:04 PM

Heller: If someone in the Aurora cinema was armed, this tragedy could have been avoided
 
I agree wholeheartedly. See link for full article :thumbsup:

Heller: If someone in the Aurora cinema was armed, this tragedy could have been avoided

The plaintiff in the landmark gun rights Supreme Court decision, District of Columbia v. Heller, re-affirmed his support of restoring gun rights in the wake of July 20 Aurora, Colo., cinema spree shooting in his exclusive interview with Human Events and Guns & Patriots.

Dick Heller, who is an armed special police officer in a federal office building, said it was about 9 a.m. Mountain Time when he got the news that a madman had opened fire on in the Century 16 movie house showing the new Batman movie, “The Dark Knight Rises,” hitting more than 70 people in the audience and killing at least 12.

“I was at work and I called one of my friends, who is an armorer in West Virginia, and who has a Class III license to manufacture machine guns, and he broke the news to me,” he said.

“In Colorado, I am surprised someone wasn’t armed to be able to defend themselves or to shoot back,” he said.

The best defense against a crazed spree shooter is an armed citizen, he said.

“Gun ownership isn’t about duck hunting, it’s about saving your life and defending all the civil liberties we enjoy in this country,” he said.

W*GS 03-23-2013 06:08 PM

More of the ol' "I woulda taken Holmes down because I sat in a seat in the theater" bull****.

03-23-2013 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS (Post 3819769)
More of the ol' "I woulda taken Holmes down because I sat in a seat in the theater" bull****.

So if you were in there, you'd not have wanted someone with a gun to help save your life?

You're lying.

03-23-2013 06:48 PM

And yes, Wog. I have sat in seats in that theater, several times. Most recently last evening, in fact. Olympus Has Fallen is currently playing and a scene in it in which North Koreans are storming the White House is so graphic by the mass murders of OUTGUNNED Americans that a woman behind me began crying and had to leave the theater to compose herself, the movie obviously connecting with her memories of where she was sitting.

In order to help illustrate to clowns like yourself who enjoy armchair quarterbacking from your Lazyboys while you munch your bonbons who have never been there but think they know a damned thing, I took a couple pictures while I was there to illustrate to people such as yourself what it's like being in there and imagining James Holmes ascending that staircase and pointing a rifle in your face. Perhaps you'll find these two photos a little instructive and you'll admit if you were there that night you'd wish someone was there with a gun to help you.

By accounts of the Aurora PD, the most lethal section of the theater was rows 8 to 12, in which 6 deceased victims were found. Last night I sat in row 11, and from that row I took this photo looking down the stairwell that Holmes ascended while shooting into the seats.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2r59h8p.jpg

Imagine yourself sitting there that night. Would you have wished at least one person had a defensive weapon in that theater while you were being shot at and trying to hide as you hear those around you screaming in horror and begging for their lives or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Next picture. Row 9, a couple seats from the stair Holmes ascended, which according to reports is the exact spot that Jon Blunk was shot to death in. Imagine if it was you there on that floor hiding. Would you feel happy that no "Rambo" was there to try to take out Holmes, or would you wish that someone could have helped you from being shot several times in the back with a rifle?

http://i47.tinypic.com/e5k8ko.jpg

I think a simple yes or no response to the above question suffices here, also.

cutthemdown 03-23-2013 06:55 PM

Liberals are crazy if you think someone couldn't shoot a gunman in a theater because its dark. You can see people. If some fool was standing over you with a gun you could see well enough to shoot him.

Would armed citizens sometimes lead to crossfire casulaties? probably. Would armed citizens stop mass killings? probably not because reaction time will always lag behind someone with a plan. It could though stop some earlier. But everyone being armed would be pretty scary. Sure it makes you safer but only if the other guy is unarmed.

I haven't made my mind up yet on whether open carry would make people safer. I tend to think it wouldn't. Still though i do believe if i was armed and in a theater while someone was shooting people I would have a reasonable chance to shoot him with my gun.

Might have to wait for your shot but you could get one.

03-23-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3819792)
Liberals are crazy if you think someone couldn't shoot a gunman in a theater because its dark. You can see people. If some fool was standing over you with a gun you could see well enough to shoot him.

Holmes saw well enough to kill 12 and injure 58. Those people had the right to a fighting chance to live, and only an armed person could have given them that.

Everyone should visit that theater, it's quite the learning experience. There are things you feel and learn that even a camera just cannot pick up.

W*GS 03-23-2013 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819780)
So if you were in there, you'd not have wanted someone with a gun to help save your life?

You're lying.

You're so mentally unstable and stupid that if you'd been there with your gun, you likely would have killed the wrong people.

W*GS 03-23-2013 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819787)
In order to help illustrate to clowns like yourself who enjoy armchair quarterbacking from your Lazyboys while you munch your bonbons who have never been there but think they know a damned thing,

You went to the theater so that means you would have taken down Holmes with no problem.

Waddya do? Stay at a Holiday Inn Express ® last night?

Speaking of armchair quarterbacks...

You, being you, are more likely to shoot yourself in the foot than you are to stop a shooter.

03-23-2013 07:20 PM

^^ No response.

Checkmate.

W*GS 03-23-2013 07:26 PM

nyuk in action...

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs47/f/20...y_Plognark.jpg

03-23-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS (Post 3819800)
nyuk in action...

I hope you don't have family that depends on you to keep them safe.

W*GS 03-23-2013 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819810)
I hope you don't have family that depends on you to keep them safe.

Anyone relying on you for anything will be sorely disappointed.

Got the neg rep out of your system yet, Mr. Chickenhawk?

03-23-2013 08:38 PM

SO, Wog, what would you have done were you there in those rows that night?

houghtam 03-23-2013 08:38 PM

I already addressed the theater issue. You don't have a clue what your talking about. Only errand, a highly trained killing machine, and no one else could have stopped him without significantly increasing the body count. But not errand. He's a badass. With 30 year old training.

W*GS 03-23-2013 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819824)
SO, Wog, what would you have done were you there in those rows that night?

Used you as a shield.

houghtam 03-23-2013 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819794)
Holmes saw well enough to kill 12 and injure 58. Those people had the right to a fighting chance to live, and only an armed person could have given them that.

Everyone should visit that theater, it's quite the learning experience. There are things you feel and learn that even a camera just cannot pick up.

I wonder why every theater employee in the world does theater checks from the bottom of the theater facing back, and not vice versa.

03-23-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 3819828)
I wonder why every theater employee in the world does theater checks from the bottom of the theater facing back, and not vice versa.

Facing back? Elaborate please?

EDIT: Holmes moved toward the back so people hiding just about anywhere with a gun could have gotten something off at him. You can sit in those seats and see staff members ascend the very same staircase Holmes used very clearly.

Perhaps you should visit there, too.

houghtam 03-23-2013 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819830)
Facing back? Elaborate please?

When doing a theater check (to throw out unruly teens, for example), you stand at the bottom and look up, using the screen to both illuminate the direction you are looking (from the screen to the projector) while also using the running movie and light from the screen to keep from being noticed. The only way you would not be at a tactical disadvantage is if you were somehow below him when you engaged him, and that would then assume he had already started his rampage, and the likelihood of your LOS being obstructed by runners grows exponentially.

Once again this is all over and above the other stuff that has been discussed, such as the fact that many people didn't realize what was going on until it was too late. From the wiki article: Initially, few in the audience considered the masked figure a threat. He appeared to be wearing a costume, like other audience members who had dressed up for the screening. Some believed that the gunman was playing a prank,[8] while others thought that he was part of a special effects installation set up for the film's premiere as a publicity stunt by the studio or theater management.[9]

Again and for the millionth time, and hopefully the last, I just think its completely ridiculous to assume that a person would be a big enough fan of a film to go to the midnight showing, but have enough situational awareness not to be totally engrossed with this movie they're so excited to go see, that they are able to detach themselves and act before being acted upon, all while being in a dark room with a movie running, with tear gas and/or smoke, and down the shooter without a greater loss of life.

Just completely ridiculous to believe that series of events, IMO.

houghtam 03-23-2013 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819830)
Perhaps you should visit there, too.

Btw, There is likely nothing about theater 9 that is any different than hundreds of other auditoriums I've been in before in my ten years in the industry. In fact, I would guess that if the Aurora 16 location is like any of the other countless Century theaters I've been in over the years, there's at least one other auditorium in THAT building that has the exact same layout. I don't need to go there to know what it looks like. These things are pretty standard. Seen a movie in one, seen a movie in Em all, and when you spend 60+ hours a week for 7 years straight, you tend to imprint these things on your brain.

03-23-2013 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 3819841)
Btw, There is likely nothing about theater 9 that is any different than hundreds of other auditoriums I've been in before in my ten years in the industry. In fact, I would guess that if the Aurora 16 location is like any of the other countless Century theaters I've been in over the years, there's at least one other auditorium in THAT building that has the exact same layout. I don't need to go there to know what it looks like. These things are pretty standard. Seen a movie in one, seen a movie in Em all, and when you spend 60+ hours a week for 7 years straight, you tend to imprint these things on your brain.

Your posts are interesting and yes, theater 8 next door is the mirror image of theater 9. Both are the 2 largest theaters in the building. Holmes chose 9 in part due to the large size and in other part due to the more secluded back exit area where he parked his car.

Considering witness accounts and my contemplations in that theater, I continue to believe that those folks would have at least had a chance. Holmes was walking and firing. He couldn't fire everywhere at once. Those who for example in the front 5 floor rows ducked down and were not shot could have theoretically been able to get a shot off as he passed them as could those toward the top he hadn't approached yet. People ran from him, the upper rows toward the top emergency exit; some on the other side jumped over the opposite ledge near the opposite stair; and some others toward the bottom fled out the emergency exit door on the bottom right that Holmes entered.

Unfortunately the demographic that attend midnight Batman movies aren't the same demographic most likely to be carrying defense weapons.

Aside from that, about what kind of customer flow does a theater of that size need to remain open? The place is lagging in business though on weekend evenings they seem to get reasonably decent crowds.

03-23-2013 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houghtam (Post 3819836)
Again and for the millionth time, and hopefully the last, I just think its completely ridiculous to assume that a person would be a big enough fan of a film to go to the midnight showing, but have enough situational awareness not to be totally engrossed with this movie they're so excited to go see, that they are able to detach themselves and act before being acted upon, all while being in a dark room with a movie running, with tear gas and/or smoke, and down the shooter without a greater loss of life.

Just completely ridiculous to believe that series of events, IMO.

By accounts I've read, once he started shooting, people realized it wasn't a prank and they immediately began screaming and running.

Of course and I admit it is theoretical. I just cannot shake the feeling that a concealed carrier in there (or better yet more than one) could have done SOMETHING to help these folks.

By the way, since you are familiar with Century procedures at least in somewhat, I keep seeing these employees go tinker with the emergency exit door Holmes used. I haven't looked at it very closely, only once having passed by it by a few feet, but I can't imagine them doing much other than superficially checking it for the sake of customer comfort. It doesn't even look like they put an alarm system on it, and the door in Theater 15 has no indication of being alarmed, either. I've never seen them check the emergency exit doors of any other theater of that building I have been in.

Of course if there was a visible, audible alarm, then teenagers would probably have difficulty resisting going over there and setting it off.

Rohirrim 03-23-2013 10:26 PM

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

03-23-2013 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 3819857)
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

A gun is a chance at another sunrise.

cutthemdown 03-24-2013 01:20 AM

Colo need not worry anymore because they did some legislation to make people safe.

BroncsRule 03-24-2013 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk (Post 3819810)
I hope you don't have family that depends on you to keep them safe.

I hope you don't have family.


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