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-   -   OT-Verdict in Stubenville Rape Case (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=110496)

gunns 03-17-2013 10:20 AM

OT-Verdict in Stubenville Rape Case
 
2 guilty, will convene grand jury to see if anyone else charged.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ape-trial?lite

rmsanger 03-17-2013 10:40 AM

I've now learned what digital penetration "rape" is and it wasn't what my first thought was. Wonder why they were charged as minors?

Dr. Broncenstein 03-17-2013 10:46 AM

Was it rape, or was it rape-rape? Need to ask Whoopi to clarify.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nZskUvAGyjQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

03-17-2013 11:59 AM

Struggle snuggle

gyldenlove 03-17-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmsanger (Post 3815939)
I've now learned what digital penetration "rape" is and it wasn't what my first thought was. Wonder why they were charged as minors?

Because it is a small town in Ohio and they were white kids....

Dendave 03-17-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyldenlove (Post 3816088)
Because it is a small town in Ohio and they were white kids....

one of the convicted is black

Pontius Pirate 03-17-2013 06:59 PM

These two kids lives are over and that is a great thing. They even cried in court and one of them was like "my life is over!" Yes it is buddy, yes it is. You are a registered sex offender for life and any employer googling your name for the rest of your life will see this as the first thing that come up on google page 1.

Now, some empathetic soul might say "aw that's too bad for these two boys. They were just kids and now some alcohol fuel night is going to haunt them the rest of their lives."

Yes. Yes it will. Let this be a lesson to other dumb kids who think, just because they are on the football team in HS, can do what they want. No you can't.

cutthemdown 03-17-2013 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontius Pirate (Post 3816148)
These two kids lives are over and that is a great thing. They even cried in court and one of them was like "my life is over!" Yes it is buddy, yes it is. You are a registered sex offender for life and any employer googling your name for the rest of your life will see this as the first thing that come up on google page 1.

Now, some empathetic soul might say "aw that's too bad for these two boys. They were just kids and now some alcohol fuel night is going to haunt them the rest of their lives."

Yes. Yes it will. Let this be a lesson to other dumb kids who think, just because they are on the football team in HS, can do what they want. No you can't.

I think it's wrong to label people there whole lives as sex offenders over this. One incident IMO unless its henious does not meet a standard for someone who is a life long threat deserved of being shunned by society forever.

We need to rethink the sex offender registry. How come we can't have a registry of violent people also. Hell make it so once convicted you can't work or have anywhere to live. That will work out well for us when we have 100's of thousands of former criminals forced to a life of crime over one incident.

A more sane judicial system would send these boys to detention for 1 yr. Then probation and on to the sex offenders list for 5 yrs. But after 5 yrs if no more incidents i think they should be able to get off the list.

i agree some people, like rapists of little children deserve to never get off the list but i would honestly rather just kill them and be done with it. Then save the offenders list for people we see as potential good citizens that just made a bad decision like these boys did.

Pontius Pirate 03-17-2013 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3816155)
I think it's wrong to label people there whole lives as sex offenders over this. One incident IMO unless its henious does not meet a standard for someone who is a life long threat deserved of being shunned by society forever.

We need to rethink the sex offender registry. How come we can't have a registry of violent people also. Hell make it so once convicted you can't work or have anywhere to live. That will work out well for us when we have 100's of thousands of former criminals forced to a life of crime over one incident.

A more sane judicial system would send these boys to detention for 1 yr. Then probation and on to the sex offenders list for 5 yrs. But after 5 yrs if no more incidents i think they should be able to get off the list.

i agree some people, like rapists of little children deserve to never get off the list but i would honestly rather just kill them and be done with it. Then save the offenders list for people we see as potential good citizens that just made a bad decision like these boys did.

So you're saying the crime in this case was not heinous?

cutthemdown 03-17-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontius Pirate (Post 3816163)
So you're saying the crime in this case was not heinous?

I think its shocking because they carried her around to different places passed. But fingering a girl, jacking off on her, although repugnant and a violation are not on the same level with other attacks we hear about. You know a person who rapes his niece over 10 yr period. A person who rapes more then once. A person who rapes and leaves someone for dead. Things we hear about every yr. I would like to see people like that executed, and kids like these given about what they got which was yr in prison.

My point was the sex offender registry is a dangerous slope. It has everything from child rapists to men cut urinating in public. Then we make laws saying they can't live by schools, parks, or anwhere children congregate. So they have nowhere to live and are forced out of society.

I'd rather we just kill people who really think are that dangerous. Why let them out? But to lump a HS kid who jacked off on a girl into a group with someone who got caught pissing, with someone who raped 4 women IMO is not a smart thing.

best thing like I said would be a way for one time offenders to get off the list after 5 yrs of probation and no more offenses.

Tombstone RJ 03-17-2013 09:53 PM

Again, where are the parents? Are these under age kids? Yes! Where are the parents? What about this 16 year old girl's parents? I read an article saying that she has been known to party and drink, really? All of these kids have one issue that needs to be addressed--horrible parents.

Hey kids, thank your parents!

Tombstone RJ 03-17-2013 09:58 PM

If you want to put some people on trail, and broaden the scope of culpability, why not look at the parents of all the kids involved? Why not point the dirty little finger at them?

lol, what a lame justice system. It's so fricken pathetic.

Bronco Boy 03-17-2013 11:17 PM

The parents will have to live with what's happened to their kids, on both sides of the case. I think that's punishment enough. You can only control what your kid does up to a point, especially once they become teens.

TomServo 03-18-2013 01:40 AM

do you have kids? do you have daughters? those boys are lucky to have balls if that was my daughter. 12 gauge shotgun justice sounds too good for them. those "kids" sound evil, I don't care how young they seem. that girl is ruined for life. those "poor" boys didn't feel a thing 'til they finally got some justice. the boys didn't even know they did anything wrong til they were gonna get kicked off the football team.

Fedaykin 03-18-2013 03:11 AM

HOly ****, I'm actually more or less in agreement with cutlet.

Sex Offender Registry is a terrible idea. There are roughly two sorts of sex offenders:

1.) People who did something wrong, and should be punished (preferably rehabilitated, but that's another argument) according to normal criminal justice practices (do the crime, do the time, etc.). This case is a good example.

2.) Monsters like child rapists that shouldn't breath free air the rest of their lives.

There's no room for "this guy's so bad we have to keep track of him the rest of his life, but we should let him go anyway".

All that happens now with the SOR is you get people who are put "back into society" but are unable to actually participate in that society, and thus have nothing to lose, and thus are more likely to be repeat offenders. Who's more likely to offend again, a guy who's given a chance to rebuild a life or a guy who's told "you're out, welcome to becoming homeless and shunned the rest of your life: good luck! Oh, and don't commit another crime, it might ruin your life!".

And of course, some of the people on the SOR registry are there for poor reasons: 18yos having sex with their 17yo girlfriends, public exposure, etc.

Even murderers are not treated that way. Not that they have no problems, but they can at least get a job and a place to live.

Beantown Bronco 03-18-2013 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 3816191)
Why not point the dirty little finger at them?

I know I shouldn't laugh in a thread like this, but this just caught me the right/wrong way.

TheElusiveKyleOrton 03-18-2013 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3816155)
I think it's wrong to label people there whole lives as sex offenders over this. One incident IMO unless its henious does not meet a standard for someone who is a life long threat deserved of being shunned by society forever.

We need to rethink the sex offender registry. How come we can't have a registry of violent people also. Hell make it so once convicted you can't work or have anywhere to live. That will work out well for us when we have 100's of thousands of former criminals forced to a life of crime over one incident.

A more sane judicial system would send these boys to detention for 1 yr. Then probation and on to the sex offenders list for 5 yrs. But after 5 yrs if no more incidents i think they should be able to get off the list.

i agree some people, like rapists of little children deserve to never get off the list but i would honestly rather just kill them and be done with it. Then save the offenders list for people we see as potential good citizens that just made a bad decision like these boys did.

You're a moron.

rugbythug 03-18-2013 05:54 AM

There was a time when kids at a party would help the over indulged. These kids got a fair judgement.

SleepingTiger 03-18-2013 07:34 AM

I can't believe I am saying this as I am conservative and believe that everyone is accountable for their actions. I think the crime does fit the punishment, but the punishment does not fit the circumstances.

When I was a teenager, I did some real crazy stuff. Did some of the stuff I do define the person I am 20 years later, no. These kids made a huge mistake. Their parents are the blame. As in the article stated, these kids did whatever they wanted and the adults looked the other way. As a matter a fact, the entire city looked the other way. These kids did what they thought was "ok" as the adults left them with no boundaries on their behavior. The kids felt they were privileged, and was not held on the same standard as everyone else. Does that mean the two boys are sex offenders? We don't know that. But to label them as such for the rest of their life is hard to accept. I did plenty wrong as a teenager, but what i did 20 yrs ago does not in any way represent the person I am today.

Pony Boy 03-18-2013 07:47 AM

Let them be Big Bubba’s fresh meat for about 5 years in prison and before they get out tattoo rapist on their foreheads ………….that should do it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton 03-18-2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepingTiger (Post 3816238)
I can't believe I am saying this as I am conservative and believe that everyone is accountable for their actions. I think the crime does fit the punishment, but the punishment does not fit the circumstances.

When I was a teenager, I did some real crazy stuff. Did some of the stuff I do define the person I am 20 years later, no. These kids made a huge mistake. Their parents are the blame. As in the article stated, these kids did whatever they wanted and the adults looked the other way. As a matter a fact, the entire city looked the other way. These kids did what they thought was "ok" as the adults left them with no boundaries on their behavior. The kids felt they were privileged, and was not held on the same standard as everyone else. Does that mean the two boys are sex offenders? We don't know that. But to label them as such for the rest of their life is hard to accept. I did plenty wrong as a teenager, but what i did 20 yrs ago does not in any way represent the person I am today.

Are you ****ing serious with this?

Pretty sure these dip****s knew that what they were doing was wrong. It's called a basic moral decency. Hell, they basically said that much on their social media feeds, which ended up incriminating them.

The ONLY thing that might have slowed them down was thinking that they could in fact get caught and could in fact be held responsible for their actions.

We all made terrible decisions when we were teenagers; most of us haven't raped or ****ed with a passed-out drunk chick, carried her to another party, had others do sexual things to her as well, and post it all on a live feed on the internet. These ****ing morons deserve far, far worse than what they're getting. That they're under 18 is the only thing saving them from a far worse punishment.

Maybe they'll grow from this experience. Maybe this will show other people in other small towns that just because you're a football hero doesn't mean you can get away with whatever the **** you want. And if it's the threat of a life altered by a sex crime conviction that stops other would-be rapists and molesters from doing this, then that's a positive.

But claiming the kid has no culpability is a cop out. You know right from wrong when you're 16 or 17.

SonOfLe-loLang 03-18-2013 08:30 AM

Yeah, from what i read about this case, there actions were clearly deplorable and they thought they were invincible because people let them get away with it. You do stupid **** like this, you deal with the consequences. I dont feel bad for them at all

scrap 03-18-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepingTiger (Post 3816238)
I can't believe I am saying this as I am conservative and believe that everyone is accountable for their actions. I think the crime does fit the punishment, but the punishment does not fit the circumstances.

When I was a teenager, I did some real crazy stuff. Did some of the stuff I do define the person I am 20 years later, no. These kids made a huge mistake. Their parents are the blame. As in the article stated, these kids did whatever they wanted and the adults looked the other way. As a matter a fact, the entire city looked the other way. These kids did what they thought was "ok" as the adults left them with no boundaries on their behavior. The kids felt they were privileged, and was not held on the same standard as everyone else. Does that mean the two boys are sex offenders? We don't know that. But to label them as such for the rest of their life is hard to accept. I did plenty wrong as a teenager, but what i did 20 yrs ago does not in any way represent the person I am today.


The previous points about the blanket SOR are good ones even though I'm in the camp thinking these guys are closer to the child rapists than they are to the 18yo having sex with a 17yo gf. That said, the above is ridiculous. If they don't have the moral compass to know better than to do this to another human,they NEED to be separated from society. It's scary that you actually believe yourself.

03-18-2013 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3816155)
I think it's wrong to label people there whole lives as sex offenders over this. One incident IMO unless its henious does not meet a standard for someone who is a life long threat deserved of being shunned by society forever.

We need to rethink the sex offender registry. How come we can't have a registry of violent people also. Hell make it so once convicted you can't work or have anywhere to live. That will work out well for us when we have 100's of thousands of former criminals forced to a life of crime over one incident.

A more sane judicial system would send these boys to detention for 1 yr. Then probation and on to the sex offenders list for 5 yrs. But after 5 yrs if no more incidents i think they should be able to get off the list.

i agree some people, like rapists of little children deserve to never get off the list but i would honestly rather just kill them and be done with it. Then save the offenders list for people we see as potential good citizens that just made a bad decision like these boys did.

Its depends on the State, and depends on the offense. Sexually Violent Predators (SVP) should never ger off the list, ever, and is most places you don;t have an appeal to the Sex Offender status. Then you have the grey area, the drunken party offense, the text my junk offense, the kids sexually axtive one being 18 one being 17 but consensual. At least in Florida, you have 1 appeal to your placement on the Sex Offender registry, 1 shot.

I have a good friend whose brother was caught in a Sting in Florida, chatting explcitly with a 16 year old girl... when she asked him to meet, he declined and told her he could no longer chat... 3 months later he was arrested. He spent 90 days in jail, is an registered S.O., and finally found one place that would hire him on as a pyschiatrist (only because they emphathize with him as they treat offenders of all sorts, and not underage pateints)... he's still on curfew, get random police checks, can't have a computer in his home, and attends therapy manadated by the State a few times per week and high expense... he has 1 appeal in Florida, one of the thoughest states on offenders, or its a life time deal. The question is, is this harsh, or do these people have tendency to repeat and shoud we protect our children at all costs?

SleepingTiger 03-18-2013 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton (Post 3816251)
Are you ****ing serious with this?

Pretty sure these dip****s knew that what they were doing was wrong. It's called a basic moral decency. Hell, they basically said that much on their social media feeds, which ended up incriminating them.

The ONLY thing that might have slowed them down was thinking that they could in fact get caught and could in fact be held responsible for their actions.

We all made terrible decisions when we were teenagers; most of us haven't raped or ****ed with a passed-out drunk chick, carried her to another party, had others do sexual things to her as well, and post it all on a live feed on the internet. These ****ing morons deserve far, far worse than what they're getting. That they're under 18 is the only thing saving them from a far worse punishment.

Maybe they'll grow from this experience. Maybe this will show other people in other small towns that just because you're a football hero doesn't mean you can get away with whatever the **** you want. And if it's the threat of a life altered by a sex crime conviction that stops other would-be rapists and molesters from doing this, then that's a positive.

But claiming the kid has no culpability is a cop out. You know right from wrong when you're 16 or 17.

i never said the kids were innocent, i just said the parents bare some if not the majority of the blame. these kids were led to believe they were not responsible for their actions when the adults never held them accountable for anything.

I am trying to look at both sides. I just feel that this would of never happened if the adults had held these kids in check.


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