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-   -   Von rushing passer only 37% of the time? (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=109911)

Gutless Drunk 01-18-2013 11:14 AM

Von rushing passer only 37% of the time?
 
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...ouchdown-catch

Elvis Dumervil and Von Miller's snap counts:

Attachment 32023



The percentage of snaps in which Dumervil and Miller were rushing the passer in the rematch are horrifying--some of their their lowest percentages of the season. Miller's percentage was his fourth lowest (behind the games against Houston, New England, and week 17 against Kansas City) while Dumervil's was is fifth lowest (behind games against Houston, New England, and both matchups against Kansas City).

The main lesson is that the Broncos can't cause as much damage with their rush when playing in close games or from behinds (or against teams that rarely pass, Brady Quinn). But it also raises another question: Should Von Miller ever drop into coverage a dozne times, no matter the situation? Sure, he's become a complete linebacker, but I'd rather have the next Derrick Thomas rushing the quaterback if I can get it. Had Von rushed the passer in the 59-yard strike to Smith, it may not have mattered if Bailey was beaten or not. Flacco might not have had the time to find out.

In the second half, the Broncos went back to their Cover 2 shell as Boldin thought they might do, and the Broncos had more success--we count the Moore debacle as a freak accident--but by then the damage was done. The Cover 1 had failed, for a lot of reasons, to produce results.

TonyR 01-18-2013 11:25 AM

I just read this article and was going to post. Really good read (I highly recommend reading the whole thing), but certainly not making me feel any better...

Rohirrim 01-18-2013 11:28 AM

Sounds like the Broncos should do what they have to in order to draft Kevin Minter. We've gone long enough without a MLB that can cover.

peacepipe 01-18-2013 11:32 AM

I pointed this out when he was drafted but he is playing OLB in a 4-3. As a result he's going to be limited in the amt of times he's able to after the QB. Doom as DE in a 4-3 is going to have a opportunity on every play whether to play run or pass,and going to have a higher percentage.

Lestat 01-18-2013 12:05 PM

yes, Von was needed in coverage, Rice out of the backfield and their TE's are dangerous if you leave them unchecked.
this further proves that we badly need a MLB in the draft. cannot get out of the first two rounds without a MLB.

Rascal 01-18-2013 12:07 PM

Has Fox and or Del Rio ever started a rookie MLB?

Lestat 01-18-2013 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacepipe (Post 3784283)
I pointed this out when he was drafted but he is playing OLB in a 4-3. As a result he's going to be limited in the amt of times he's able to after the QB. Doom as DE in a 4-3 is going to have a opportunity on every play whether to play run or pass,and going to have a higher percentage.

playing OLB allows him to do more than just rush the passer and come from the DE position.
plus he would need to bulk up to 245-250 to play through the entire season as a pure DE.

this is why so many of us want to see a MLB and DT added via the draft fairly high. the MLB can take more coverage assignments and allow Von to show as a LB but rush the passer and also the DT can help eat up blockers.

jmz313 01-18-2013 12:10 PM

We played with a large lead in the first game. Lots of obvious passing downs. i'm not shocked at all at those percentages. Baltimore abandoned the run in week 15 cause they were getting blown out.

Kaylore 01-18-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 3784291)
Has Fox and or Del Rio ever started a rookie MLB?

They started arookie SLB.

MplsBronco 01-18-2013 12:21 PM

Shouldn't we be counting the number of times rushing the passer on passing downs? So really 28/40 times, so 70%

Lestat 01-18-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 3784291)
Has Fox and or Del Rio ever started a rookie MLB?

Del Rio not as a HC, but only 4 times in his tenure with Jacksonville did they draft a LB higher than the 4th round. most of them were ILB tweener types who had to move to OLB.

Fox started Morgan(i think Del Rio was still the DC then) and Beason at MLB in Carolina as rookies. Will Witherspoon replaced Morgan in his rookie year as MLB when Morgan went down with injury.

if you look at the draft history of fox at LB, a guy like Olgetree would make a lot of sense, considering Fox has always had smaller more athletic LB's.

pricejj 01-18-2013 12:27 PM

Well, looks like Tony Carter is an RFA...so he will remain a Bronco.

I think the Broncos started out the game in Cover 1, in order to practice it to get ready for the Patriots. Bailey was the only DB playing man coverage. That is the coverage I thought they would employ (in order to be able to stop the running game with a 4-man line). It didn't work.

After the Broncos got beat several times deep, they reverted back to a Cover 2 shell. Unfortunately, that leaves only 6 men in the box...which the Broncos could not use to stop the Patriots running game unless they had a major upgrade at either SS or MLB (the Ravens stopped the Broncos running game out of Nickel personnel the entire game).

Would drafting Minter enable the Broncos to stop the Ravens/Patriots running game with 6 in the box? Can the Broncos ever effectively play Cover 1 with their current personnel?

Beantown Bronco 01-18-2013 12:30 PM

They've done studies you know. 37% of the time, he rushed the passer every time.

He's the sex panther of our defense.

LRtagger 01-18-2013 12:31 PM

I noticed that during the game but it really goes to show you how great of a player he is and how he makes up for a LOT of the lack of talent on this defense.

In the first game he rushed a majority of the time and/or played around the LOS and their TE killed us and we kept Rice in check - plus Flacco was under pressure for almost every throw and he was really out of rhythm.

The second game he dropped back quite a bit and their TE was held in check but Rice gouged us and Flacco had all day to throw.

I have no idea why they changed their defensive strategy for the second game.

peacepipe 01-18-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat (Post 3784292)
playing OLB allows him to do more than just rush the passer and come from the DE position.
plus he would need to bulk up to 245-250 to play through the entire season as a pure DE.

this is why so many of us want to see a MLB and DT added via the draft fairly high. the MLB can take more coverage assignments and allow Von to show as a LB but rush the passer and also the DT can help eat up blockers.

I'm not advocating that miller be moved to DE, if its a problem that miller is not rushing the QB enough then it would be better to switch to a 3-4 base defense.

pricejj 01-18-2013 12:34 PM

You could always draft a monster NT (who actually needs to be double-teamed) so the Broncos can generate pressure out of a 4-man Defensive Line...because they sure can't now.

Lestat 01-18-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pricejj (Post 3784302)
Well, looks like Tony Carter is an RFA...so he will remain a Bronco.

I think the Broncos started out the game in Cover 1, in order to practice it to get ready for the Patriots. Bailey was the only DB playing man coverage. That is the coverage I thought they would employ (in order to be able to stop the running game with a 4-man line). It didn't work.

After the Broncos got beat several times deep, they reverted back to a Cover 2 shell. Unfortunately, that leaves only 6 men in the box...which the Broncos could not use to stop the Patriots running game unless they had a major upgrade at either SS or MLB (the Ravens stopped the Broncos running game out of Nickel personnel the entire game).

Would drafting Minter enable the Broncos to stop the Ravens/Patriots running game with 6 in the box? Can the Broncos ever effectively play Cover 1 with their current personnel?

i like Minter, but the MLB i really want is Andrew Jackson of WKU. he's not a typical Fox LB but he's going to be really good and i think can be had in the 2nd round. which would allow us to focus on DL or OL in the first.

Lestat 01-18-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacepipe (Post 3784307)
I'm not advocating that miller be moved to DE, if its a problem that miller is not rushing the QB enough then it would be better to switch to a 3-4 base defense.

switching to a 3-4 base means another shift in personnel and getting a elite NT.
the 4-3 is fine, we just need a MLB and another good DT to pair with Wolfe(though granted he spends a lot of time at DE)

Cito Pelon 01-18-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRtagger (Post 3784305)
I noticed that during the game but it really goes to show you how great of a player he is and how he makes up for a LOT of the lack of talent on this defense.

In the first game he rushed a majority of the time and/or played around the LOS and their TE killed us and we kept Rice in check - plus Flacco was under pressure for almost every throw and he was really out of rhythm.

The second game he dropped back quite a bit and their TE was held in check but Rice gouged us and Flacco had all day to throw.

I have no idea why they changed their defensive strategy for the second game.

Count me in also.

SonOfLe-loLang 01-18-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacepipe (Post 3784307)
I'm not advocating that miller be moved to DE, if its a problem that miller is not rushing the QB enough then it would be better to switch to a 3-4 base defense.

For all intents and purposes, we play a 3-4 now

SonOfLe-loLang 01-18-2013 12:51 PM

Last sat was a crappy loss and a crappy gameplan. Overall the broncos defense is pretty good

peacepipe 01-18-2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat (Post 3784311)
switching to a 3-4 base means another shift in personnel and getting a elite NT.
the 4-3 is fine, we just need a MLB and another good DT to pair with Wolfe(though granted he spends a lot of time at DE)

That's what FA & the draft is for. KC runs a 3-4 & they don't have a monster NT. You act as if the entire scheme depends on having "elite" NT. I'm not saying NT isn't important but it is not the most essential part of the scheme.

Beantown Bronco 01-18-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3784319)
Last sat was a crappy loss and a crappy gameplan. Overall the broncos defense is pretty good

This. We had the #2 ranked defense at the end of the year and led the league in sacks. Can we get better? Sure. Do we need to completely change our system? No.

Lestat 01-18-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacepipe (Post 3784321)
That's what FA & the draft is for. KC runs a 3-4 & they don't have a monster NT. You act as if the entire scheme depends on having "elite" NT. I'm not saying NT isn't important but it is not the most essential part of the scheme.

the Chiefs LB's are pretty damn good as a unit though. plus Poe played pretty well as the season progressed. we also don't have a Eric Berry.

the problems we had before when playing the 3-4 are the same now as they were then. we don't have guys who can swallow up blocks and allow the LB's/DE's to make plays. we have a suspect secondary and outside of Ayers no real DE who can anchor the end to hold the run game in check.
Wolfe is still learning, Doom is ok against the run but not ideal in a 3-4.
the personnel we have is fit for a 4-3 and while we can run a hybrid front at times we can't run a 3-4 as a the base without overhauling the DL and LB positions.

also, Elway likes the draft to improve, look at the DT's we've passed on in FA.

peacepipe 01-18-2013 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat (Post 3784346)
the Chiefs LB's are pretty damn good as a unit though. plus Poe played pretty well as the season progressed. we also don't have a Eric Berry.

the problems we had before when playing the 3-4 are the same now as they were then. we don't have guys who can swallow up blocks and allow the LB's/DE's to make plays. we have a suspect secondary and outside of Ayers no real DE who can anchor the end to hold the run game in check.
Wolfe is still learning, Doom is ok against the run but not ideal in a 3-4.
the personnel we have is fit for a 4-3 and while we can run a hybrid front at times we can't run a 3-4 as a the base without overhauling the DL and LB positions.

also, Elway likes the draft to improve, look at the DT's we've passed on in FA.

You're underestimating the personal we have & overestimating the move to 3-4.
Doom & miller are both prototypical 3-4 OLBs. Both have 3-4 experience. As matter of fact quite a lot of the players we have at LB have 3-4 experience. Yes we have to draft a not but to say the personel on defense isn't suited for a 3-4 isn't correct.

BTW,although I prefer a 3-4 base over a 4-3 doesn't mean we change up what we are already doing on defense.


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