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-   -   Poll on Fiscal Cliff (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=109283)

gunns 12-12-2012 08:04 PM

Poll on Fiscal Cliff
 
It's quite a lengthy poll asking numerous questions regarding Dems, Repubs, Congress, Obama, fiscal cliff, but quite interesting.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...cal-cliff?lite

Meck77 12-27-2012 02:14 PM

I think we should go over the cliff and layoff the president, most of congress, and about 5 million federal workers. These jack asses have us in wars all over the world and they can't even pass a damn budget plan.

These idiots are going to kick the can down the road and raise taxes on everyone. The poor included. This political uncertainty is already having adverse effects on the economy. On a personal level I know of major deals being shelved because people don't even know how much they are going to be taxed!

Bottom line they are creating a disincentive to hire people, take business risk, and quite frankly make more money.

peacepipe 12-27-2012 02:27 PM

The senate already passed a bill extending the tax cuts for the middle class 250,000 and below. They're just waiting on the rightards in the house to put it to a vote.

BTW, I agree with you we should go over the fiscal cliff.

Fedaykin 12-27-2012 02:31 PM

If the right weren't controlled by loons, this wouldn't be a issue. Even "Saint Ron" would have understood that we need to tackle the problem with both revenue increase and spending cuts.

Meck77 12-27-2012 03:04 PM

Rightards? loons?

Fellas the democrats have been in charge for 4 years now. Had our economy actually grew instead of debt ceiling raises, quantitative easing, operation twist, and other fed tricks we wouldn't be in this mess.

Meh....I think when all of you see your tax bills, new fees, and you paychecks shrink you'll be wishing a guy like Ron Paul got in office instead.

Our federal government is so bloated it's disgusting.

Fedaykin 12-27-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3764033)
Rightards? loons?

Fellas the democrats have been in charge for 4 years now.

Not at all true. Why do you guys insist on lies all the time?

Quote:

Had our economy actually grew instead of debt ceiling raises, quantitative easing, operation twist, and other fed tricks we wouldn't be in this mess.
Hard to get anything done when even the ideas the right _agrees_ with they block just for the sake of blocking. It's childish and absurd, and you're the same if you deny it's going on.

There's finally some GOP leadership that are acting like grown ups, but color me unimpressed.

Quote:

Meh....I think when all of you see your tax bills, new fees, and you paychecks shrink you'll be wishing a guy like Ron Paul got in office instead.
You know, I do my own taxes: they've done nothing but go down since Obama took office (by almost 3%). Most of the middle and working class has seen a significant tax cut under Obama (mostly due to the FICA tax holiday).

Overall tax rates (as a % of GDP) are at a 60 year low.

But keep drumming the tax scare tactics. There are plenty of folks that will believe you.

Quote:

Our federal government is so bloated it's disgusting.
No argument there.


And the Saint Ron I'm referring too isn't Paul it's Reagan. You know, the president who raised taxes almost twice a year during his presidency when even he realized that the huge cuts he was part of couldn't be paid for with just money stolen from SS?

peacepipe 12-27-2012 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3764033)
Rightards? loons?

Fellas the democrats have been in charge for 4 years now. Had our economy actually grew instead of debt ceiling raises, quantitative easing, operation twist, and other fed tricks we wouldn't be in this mess.

Meh....I think when all of you see your tax bills, new fees, and you paychecks shrink you'll be wishing a guy like Ron Paul got in office instead.

Our federal government is so bloated it's disgusting.

Have ever read what you actually post. It might answer the question on why I refer to reps/teabaggers as rightards.

SoCalBronco 12-27-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacepipe (Post 3764007)
The senate already passed a bill extending the tax cuts for the middle class 250,000 and below. They're just waiting on the rightards in the house to put it to a vote.

BTW, I agree with you we should go over the fiscal cliff.

Why would the House pass just that? Where would the future incentive be to make major changes in spending if that's already done?

Meck77 12-27-2012 03:41 PM

We are approaching 17 trillion in debt. If you enjoyed any tax break kiss that goodbye.

Facts are facts.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...ebt_chart.html

Fedaykin 12-27-2012 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3764064)
We are approaching 17 trillion in debt. If you enjoyed any tax break kiss that goodbye.

Facts are facts.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...ebt_chart.html

Nice strawman. I don't recall anyone but the wingut contingent claiming we can solve the debt problem without tax increases.

The wingnut contingent wants to have their cake and eat it to: pay off an enormous debt without actually you know, paying anything.

cutthemdown 12-27-2012 05:07 PM

Obama acts like he just wants a few tax raising things though fed. People don't realize how much he is raising them just to try and pay for Obamacare.

Now the whole mood of the country is ****. Retailers had a horrid xmas and that accounts for 50% of their nut in some cases. We are so screwed right now and the funny thing is liberals still think it was because of Iraq lol.

Enjoy the ride. The last time xmas sales were this bad was 2008 right before the recession. We may be headed into a recession again. Obamacare starting to kick in and its plain to see the states do not have the money to meet their end of the deal.

cutthemdown 12-27-2012 05:09 PM

I hear rich people having trouble figuring out what the charitable deduction will be? I can't believe Obama and Congress waited this long lol.

Also I think its funny that Clinton was so awesome but even liberals scared to death to go back to his tax rates.

peacepipe 12-27-2012 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3764122)
I hear rich people having trouble figuring out what the charitable deduction will be? I can't believe Obama and Congress waited this long lol.

Also I think its funny that Clinton was so awesome but even liberals scared to death to go back to his tax rates.

What libs? Gwb tax cuts need to expire in its entirety. IMO

W*GS 12-27-2012 05:36 PM

The whole thing is stupid - based solely on GOP extremism and servicing Grover.

Fedaykin 12-27-2012 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS (Post 3764136)
The whole thing is stupid - based solely on GOP extremism and servicing Grover.

Gotta 'respect' the huge brass balls it takes for a party to put in writing a refusal to compromise on fiscal issues (particularly taxes) while at the same time calling the other major party "extreme".

W*GS 12-27-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedaykin (Post 3764145)
Gotta 'respect' the huge brass balls it takes for a party to put in writing a refusal to compromise on fiscal issues (particularly taxes) while at the same time calling the other major party "extreme".

Rigidity in the face of the facts doesn't earn respect - good use of the quote symbol.

ant1999e 12-27-2012 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco (Post 3764061)
Why would the House pass just that? Where would the future incentive be to make major changes in spending if that's already done?

I like how they conveniently ignore your question.

Cito Pelon 12-27-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedaykin (Post 3764055)
Not at all true. Why do you guys insist on lies all the time?



Hard to get anything done when even the ideas the right _agrees_ with they block just for the sake of blocking. It's childish and absurd, and you're the same if you deny it's going on.

There's finally some GOP leadership that are acting like grown ups, but color me unimpressed.



You know, I do my own taxes: they've done nothing but go down since Obama took office (by almost 3%). Most of the middle and working class has seen a significant tax cut under Obama (mostly due to the FICA tax holiday).

Overall tax rates (as a % of GDP) are at a 60 year low.

But keep drumming the tax scare tactics. There are plenty of folks that will believe you.



No argument there.


And the Saint Ron I'm referring too isn't Paul it's Reagan. You know, the president who raised taxes almost twice a year during his presidency when even he realized that the huge cuts he was part of couldn't be paid for with just money stolen from SS?

You're wasting your time with Meck. You can try to talk logic, compromise, moving forward, dialogue, bi-partisanship, nope he has all the answers, it's his way and everybody else is a dope.

The nope-you're-a-dope method of government. It's always somebody elses fault he's not King of the World.

SoCalBronco 12-27-2012 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant1999e (Post 3764223)
I like how they conveniently ignore your question.

Gutting the Bush tax cuts above 250K is not something I'm opposed to. I welcome it. It's a major deficit reducer....but it has to be coupled with very, very significant spending cuts, especially in our biggest long term debt drivers (Medicare). While new revenues are needed, we also need to make difficult choices on spending. Spending can't be addressed if you give away the leverage for free.

12-28-2012 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3764001)
I think we should go over the cliff and layoff the president, most of congress, and about 5 million federal workers. These jack asses have us in wars all over the world and they can't even pass a damn budget plan.

These idiots are going to kick the can down the road and raise taxes on everyone. The poor included. This political uncertainty is already having adverse effects on the economy. On a personal level I know of major deals being shelved because people don't even know how much they are going to be taxed!

Bottom line they are creating a disincentive to hire people, take business risk, and quite frankly make more money.

Taxes will go up, but they will be able to pass loophoes and other gimmicks to ease the tax burden on the poor... the wealthly will just out their money elsewhere and avoid taxation on many fronts... its really the middle income earners, 50-150K that get the biggest hit.. not poor enought o qualify for the breaks, not rich enough to hire an accountant to figure it out.

My Aunt just sold her business for 26 years, the collective tax liability on the assets was just a smidge under 50 percent, and her annual income form the business over the years, over 40%. She said she would not do it again considering hours worked and stress undertook.

I say let the cuts take place and let taxes go up. We have been living on the national credit card for a decade and not paying our bills.... the bills Politicians have run up.... its time to pay the tab, and only then in the high tax environment will the true Fiscal Conservatives be taken seriously.... until then, we live on borrow time and money

12-28-2012 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3764001)
I think we should go over the cliff and layoff the president, most of congress, and about 5 million federal workers. These jack asses have us in wars all over the world and they can't even pass a damn budget plan.

These idiots are going to kick the can down the road and raise taxes on everyone. The poor included. This political uncertainty is already having adverse effects on the economy. On a personal level I know of major deals being shelved because people don't even know how much they are going to be taxed!

Bottom line they are creating a disincentive to hire people, take business risk, and quite frankly make more money.

Taxes will go up, but they will be able to pass loophoes and other gimmicks to ease the tax burden on the poor... the wealthly will just out their money elsewhere and avoid taxation on many fronts... its really the middle income earners, 50-150K that get the biggest hit.. not poor enought o qualify for the breaks, not rich enough to hire an accountant to figure it out.

My Aunt just sold her business for 26 years, the collective tax liability on the assets was just a smidge under 50 percent, and her annual income form the business over the years, over 40%. She said she would not do it again considering hours worked and stress undertook.

I say let the cuts take place and let taxes go up. We have been living on the national credit card for a decade and not paying our bills.... the bills Politicians have run up.... its time to pay the tab, and only then in the high tax environment will the true Fiscal Conservatives be taken seriously.... until then, we live on borrow time and money

Meck77 12-28-2012 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Large (Post 3764413)
I say let the cuts take place

I'm a big fan of major cuts. Contrary to cito's idea of me I'm also a firm believer in personal responsibility. We all have a little responsibility in this nearly 17 trillion dollar debt. We've allowed our politicians to run wild with our tax dollars. I feel personally responsible for that but I've done what I can on an individual level.

Cito you just have an ax to grind with me because I think your beloved Israel should be cut from the American tax payer tit. 100+ Billion shipped to a wealthy nation while we have millions suffering at home and our own border lies unprotected. It's a tragedy!

Yes we need big cuts. See my first post on this thread. Instead this has been obama's/geithners debt policy the last 4 years.


I am responsible for about 25 bucks of the debt recently. Had breakfast in the White House last week. I did offer to pay for it though. They insisted it was on the house. ;D

Having spent a week in DC meeting with various people it was painfully clear how out of touch our representatives are and this bubble mentality of the people in DC. The recession isn't even understood in DC. The federal dollars have floated around there so freely those aholes have been living high on the hog on your dime.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9278/debtlimit.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

12-28-2012 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77 (Post 3764420)
I'm a big fan of major cuts. Contrary to cito's idea of me I'm also a firm believer in personal responsibility. We all have a little responsibility in this nearly 17 trillion dollar debt. We've allowed our politicians to run wild with our tax dollars. I feel personally responsible for that but I've done what I can on an individual level.

Cito you just have an ax to grind with me because I think your beloved Israel should be cut from the American tax payer tit. 100+ Billion shipped to a wealthy nation while we have millions suffering at home and our own border lies unprotected. It's a tragedy!

Yes we need big cuts. See my first post on this thread. Instead this has been obama's/geithners debt policy the last 4 years.


I am responsible for about 25 bucks of the debt recently. Had breakfast in the White House last week. I did offer to pay for it though. They insisted it was on the house. ;D

Having spent a week in DC meeting with various people it was painfully clear how out of touch our representatives are and this bubble mentality of the people in DC. The recession isn't even understood in DC. The federal dollars have floated around there so freely those aholes have been living high on the hog on your dime.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9278/debtlimit.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

It the result of our elected official being able to run the Government on borrowed money rather than tax receipts.... The Starve the Beast strategy on works if old Beastie Can't Borrow at Exceptional Rates!! LOL

Low taxes are great and all, but not when your Government spends 30% more than it brinks in for nearly a decade..... but somehow most Americans go about their lives...

Agreed, we will need huge means tested changes to our safety net program primary, and probably have to take the Ron Paul stance on Defense.... We will have to get back to the Safety Nets really being program that give our fellow Americans, who are of meager means a dignified end to their lives... but if you can afford to retire nicely and afford private health insurance as you age, you might be forced to go it alone.

We can do it, Americans just have toget over the manufactured notion that people will die in the streets and civilization will turn on its head and people will resort to bunkers... We can have a limited Government, there is just no reason otherwise..

cutthemdown 12-28-2012 05:35 PM

defense is only what 4% of gdp? something like that? You can cut defense and not make a dent. Entitlements are where the money is.

Fedaykin 12-28-2012 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown (Post 3764669)
defense is only what 4% of gdp? something like that? You can cut defense and not make a dent. Entitlements are where the money is.

So, stealing SS and medicare money once wasn't good enough for your warmongering greed? You want to do it twice?


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