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-   -   Tagliabue vacates Bounty players suspensions (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=109268)

gunns 12-11-2012 10:44 AM

Tagliabue vacates Bounty players suspensions
 
But found their conduct was detrimental to the league.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/P...ensions-121112

12-11-2012 10:48 AM

Sham. I hope Vilma sues the **** out of Goodell.

gyldenlove 12-11-2012 10:55 AM

I don't get the logic behind this, so there was a bounty system and the players lied about it when questioned, but they are not punished despite violating their contractual terms to cooperate with NFL investigations?

gyldenlove 12-11-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaiy (Post 3751215)
Sham. I hope Vilma sues the **** out of Goodell.

For what? he hasn't missed a single game, has suffered no monetary losses due to the actions of Goodell. He already has a defamation suit going and that will be going nowhere.

12-11-2012 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyldenlove (Post 3751219)
For what? he hasn't missed a single game, has suffered no monetary losses due to the actions of Goodell. He already has a defamation suit going and that will be going nowhere.

The defamation suit was what I was talking about.

Lets be real here. Wasnt it the NFL that said they had over 18,000 pieces of evidence proving these players were in fact participating in a bounty program? If that is the case, why were the suspensions vacated? Why did he say the Saints as an organization contaminated the entire case? How is that possible if they submitted all the evidence to the league?

This doesnt vindicate the players at all. This basically says, "we will remove the suspensions but we cant admit we were wrong because that would give Vilma's defamation suit traction."

Also, by vacating the player suspensions and putting it on the coaches, they can still justify keeping Payton and Williams suspended.

gyldenlove 12-11-2012 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaiy (Post 3751226)
The defamation suit was what I was talking about.

Lets be real here. Wasnt it the NFL that said they had over 18,000 pieces of evidence proving these players were in fact participating in a bounty program? If that is the case, why were the suspensions vacated? Why did he say the Saints as an organization contaminated the entire case? How is that possible if they submitted all the evidence to the league?

This doesnt vindicate the players at all. This basically says, "we will remove the suspensions but we cant admit we were wrong because that would give Vilma's defamation suit traction."

Also, by vacating the player suspensions and putting it on the coaches, they can still justify keeping Payton and Williams suspended.

Tagliabue said point blank that the players had committed acts detrimental to the league but he wouldn't punish them for reasons that only he currently understands.

The defamation suit contents that Goodell defamed Vilma by claiming that Vilma offered a bounty on Brett Favre. Tagliabue saying that the players and by extension Vilma did in fact commit acts detrimental to the league (he didn't specify what those acts might be) doesn't mean Vilma didn't offer a bounty on Favre and I doubt anyone would be able to successfully spin it that way.

There is no question there was a bounty program, only a few Saints fans and players seem to somehow live under the misguided notion that it didn't occur. The question is whether the players participated in said program actively beyond what could be expected by being pressured by the coaching staff and if they lied about it during the NFL investigation. It seems that Tagliabue has found that the players didn't participate more than what could be expected by pressure from the coaching staff and for some reason he doesn't feel the need to punish the players for lying.

Bigdawg26 12-11-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaiy (Post 3751215)
Sham. I hope Vilma sues the **** out of Goodell.

I just hope it will all be over with. That whole BS was exhausting! So it is Goodell's ego and control for that matter.

gunns 12-11-2012 11:31 AM

I just don't understand the suspensions for the coaches and Belichick gets nabbed video taping, conduct detrimental to the league, and gets a fine.

12-11-2012 11:42 AM

This reeks of BS. Hey players, lets settle. If you admit guilt, we will drop the suspensions. The players rejected the settlement, and lo and behold, the suspensions were dropped.

Bigdawg26 12-11-2012 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunns (Post 3751233)
I just don't understand the suspensions for the coaches and Belichick gets nabbed video taping, conduct detrimental to the league, and gets a fine.

I donít want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I donít think all of that BS would have happened if the Super Bowl wasnít held in New Orleans. The saints could have been big contenders for the NFC championship if it wasnít for all this turmoil and suspending top coaches. Also, New Orleans is a cash cow for all major sports events because of its partying, low taxes for having events, close proximity of the Superdome to the Casino, French Quarter, Bourbon St., and convention center. The league would have lost A LOT of money if the Saints would have been in it. And we do know money drives the league now a days!

SonOfLe-loLang 12-11-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunns (Post 3751233)
I just don't understand the suspensions for the coaches and Belichick gets nabbed video taping, conduct detrimental to the league, and gets a fine.

I still dont think the videotaping done by the Patriots was a big deal. They were just taping someone everyone saw anyway, and something Belichick even stated didnt help much.

Lestat 12-11-2012 03:03 PM

this whole process was stupid. they never really had any evidence to condemn the players. it was the coaches and GM that had the most damning actions.
they lied more so than anyone else.

bronco_diesel 12-11-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunns (Post 3751233)
I just don't understand the suspensions for the coaches and Belichick gets nabbed video taping, conduct detrimental to the league, and gets a fine.

100% agree!

bronco_diesel 12-11-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751287)
I still dont think the videotaping done by the Patriots was a big deal. They were just taping someone everyone saw anyway, and something Belichick even stated didnt help much.

of course Belichick is going to say that.

SonOfLe-loLang 12-11-2012 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco_diesel (Post 3751325)
of course Belichick is going to say that.

They video taped defensive hand signals. its all out in the open. The advantage had to be minimal. Need proof? 16-0 the next season

Lestat 12-11-2012 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751329)
They video taped defensive hand signals. its all out in the open. The advantage had to be minimal. Need proof? 16-0 the next season

and yet their team hasn't won a super bowl since spygate ended.

SonOfLe-loLang 12-11-2012 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat (Post 3751332)
and yet their team hasn't won a super bowl since spygate ended.

And yet they've been to two and havent skipped a beat since.

So, youre saying David Tyree's circus catch is a direct result of the Patriots not having video of defensive hand signals?

Dont be dumb.

Blueflame 12-11-2012 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751287)
I still dont think the videotaping done by the Patriots was a big deal. They were just taping someone everyone saw anyway, and something Belichick even stated didnt help much.

Of course he's gonna say (after being caught) that "it didn't help much". I'd counter, however... that if it really didn't help much, then why would they have bothered to do it? It seems pretty clear to me that if it wasn't at least somewhat helpful, then they wouldn't have done it (and risked getting caught and sanctioned by the league). Common sense says that the only reason for breaking the rules is if you did, in fact, gain a competitive edge from it. To me, Belichick's statement appears to be nothing more than "damage control" after being caught.... "minimizing and rationalizing" what he chose to do. And had he not been caught, he would still be doing it.

gunns 12-11-2012 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751287)
I still dont think the videotaping done by the Patriots was a big deal. They were just taping someone everyone saw anyway, and something Belichick even stated didnt help much.

I don't believe they would have fined Belichick $500,000 and the team if it wasn't a big deal. I bet Kraft paid it all.

SonOfLe-loLang 12-11-2012 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunns (Post 3751395)
I don't believe they would have fined Belichick $500,000 and the team if it wasn't a big deal. I bet Kraft paid it all.

It wasnt. Clearly it wasn't. He's the kind of guy that looks for any advantage he can, and he was wrong, but it was not the secret to their success. Have they skipped a beat since?

gunns 12-11-2012 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751341)
And yet they've been to two and havent skipped a beat since.

So, youre saying David Tyree's circus catch is a direct result of the Patriots not having video of defensive hand signals?

Dont be dumb.

But is an 8-8 team and a 9-7 team beating them in the SB a result? Maybe, maybe not but a $500K fine is an indication of conduct detrimental to the league that compares to the Saints. Yet, he's allowed to keep coaching.

gunns 12-11-2012 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751398)
It wasnt. Clearly it wasn't. He's the kind of guy that looks for any advantage he can, and he was wrong, but it was not the secret to their success. Have they skipped a beat since?

No matter how you look at it, the fact that they haven't won a SB, as dominant as they've remained, indicates somethings missing, especially when a 16-0 team loses to an 8-8 team.

gunns 12-11-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751398)
It wasnt. Clearly it wasn't. He's the kind of guy that looks for any advantage he can, and he was wrong, but it was not the secret to their success. Have they skipped a beat since?

$500K isn't a big deal???

SonOfLe-loLang 12-11-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunns (Post 3751400)
No matter how you look at it, the fact that they haven't won a SB, as dominant as they've remained, indicates somethings missing, especially when a 16-0 team loses to an 8-8 team.

Considering a gazillion variables go into winning a football game, youre really going to point to THAT as the reason they lost? You guys would have a point if the Patriots were suddenly 5-11 after Spygate, but thyre in the playoffs every year, have been in 2 super bowls that they could have just as easily have won, and havent skipped a beat.

It did nothing. Obviously the penalty is fine, you dont want to insinuate its ok, but taping defensive signals that probably change from game to game is essentially worthless. We all see them anyway!

gunns 12-11-2012 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang (Post 3751410)
Considering a gazillion variables go into winning a football game, youre really going to point to THAT as the reason they lost? You guys would have a point if the Patriots were suddenly 5-11 after Spygate, but thyre in the playoffs every year, have been in 2 super bowls that they could have just as easily have won, and havent skipped a beat.

It did nothing. Obviously the penalty is fine, you dont want to insinuate its ok, but taping defensive signals that probably change from game to game is essentially worthless. We all see them anyway!

We each have our own opinions. My point was that if the league found it detrimental enough to fine that much money why the difference in the punishments.


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