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Greatspirits 11-13-2012 10:01 AM

Elway's latest comeback!
 
Nice article about John
http://news.yahoo.com/elway-puts-lin...7432--spt.html

baja 11-13-2012 10:10 AM

Quote:

—Willis McGahee, Brandon Stokley, Trindon Holliday — all have been brought in by Elway, who has also made significant progress in cleaning up Denver's bloated salary cap.
How is that possible? So Cal has often told us (supported by back up charts) that Bowlen was one of the cheapest owners in the league and the reason Mike Shanahan failed to win but one playoff game post Elway.

11-13-2012 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja (Post 3725377)
How is that possible? So Cal has often told us (supported by back up charts) that Bowlen was one of the cheapest owners in the league and the reason Mike Shanahan failed to win but one playoff game post Elway.

Well, Baja all those guys there are pretty much minimum wage guys! McGahee is making a little over two million. Outside of Manning Denver has not spent a lot of money in FA. Tamme and Dreesen were the big off season acquisitions.

Porter is on a 1 year deal Adams is $2 million a year guy. Broncos went pretty cheap outside of Manning, but they are getting a lot of bang for their buck. That is the most important part.

It's not that Bowlen is broke he can just never remember where his check book is!:spit:

baja 11-13-2012 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 3725381)
Well, Baja all those guys there are pretty much minimum wage guys! McGahee is making a little over two million. Outside of Manning Denver has not spent a lot of money in FA. Tamme and Dreesen were the big off season acquisitions.

Porter is on a 1 year deal Adams is $2 million a year guy. Broncos went pretty cheap outside of Manning, but they are getting a lot of bang for their buck. That is the most important part.

It's not that Bowlen is broke he can just never remember where his check book is!:spit:

This is kinda an inside joke with So Cal, goes back before your time here ;D

DAN_BRONCO_FAN 11-13-2012 11:41 AM

LOL @ that ocguy

i suspect the one dislike was MacGruder

Rock Chalk 11-13-2012 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 3725381)
Well, Baja all those guys there are pretty much minimum wage guys! McGahee is making a little over two million. Outside of Manning Denver has not spent a lot of money in FA. Tamme and Dreesen were the big off season acquisitions.

Porter is on a 1 year deal Adams is $2 million a year guy. Broncos went pretty cheap outside of Manning, but they are getting a lot of bang for their buck. That is the most important part.

It's not that Bowlen is broke he can just never remember where his check book is!:spit:

You post too much.

Just saying.

SoCalBronco 11-13-2012 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja (Post 3725377)
How is that possible? So Cal has often told us (supported by back up charts) that Bowlen was one of the cheapest owners in the league and the reason Mike Shanahan failed to win but one playoff game post Elway.

He is one of the cheapest owners in the league and yes that was a big reason why we went .500 the last three years. I've already given you statistical evidence to show how dead money cannot fully explain our spending issues. What actual evidence does this writer have to the contrary?

Spoiler: A one line conclusory assertion isn't evidence.

baja 11-13-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco (Post 3725496)
He is one of the cheapest owners in the league and yes that was a big reason why we went .500 the last three years. I've already given you statistical evidence to show how dead money cannot fully explain our spending issues. What actual evidence does this writer have to the contrary?

Spoiler: A one line conclusory assertion isn't evidence.

Do you have a list of dead cap money for those years?

Can't spend what isn't available. ;D

baja 11-13-2012 12:08 PM

Also Shanny now coaches for the biggest spender in the league what's the excuse now?


Oh ya Injuries.

What will it be next season, record May fly hatch?

SoCalBronco 11-13-2012 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja (Post 3725497)
Do you have a list of dead cap money for those years?

Can't spend what isn't available. ;D

I do have a list of real spending by year. It doesn't take 6-7 really low spending years to make up for 2 years of high spending. The old man needs to think over his sins.

SoCalBronco 11-13-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja (Post 3725499)
Also Shanny now coaches for the biggest spender in the league what's the excuse now?


Oh ya Injuries.

What will it be next season, record May fly hatch?

Umm no he doesn't. They just got hit with a 36m penalty for something the league admitted was permitted under the CBA. I'm getting pissed that Snyder hasn't sent someone to try and catch Goodell cheating on his wife yet.....so that the league can "reconsider" its position.

baja 11-13-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco (Post 3725507)
Umm no he doesn't. They just got hit with a 36m penalty for something the league admitted was permitted under the CBA. I'm getting pissed that Snyder hasn't sent someone to try and catch Goodell cheating on his wife yet.....so that the league can "reconsider" its position.

and what was that "something" that you conveniently left out?

SoCalBronco 11-13-2012 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja (Post 3725510)
and what was that "something" that you conveniently left out?

They claimed cap circumvention even though they admitted later everything Washington did was permitted by the language of the cap. If Snyder was smart he should have threatened he would work with the Union on collusion if the penalty wasn't dropped.

baja 11-13-2012 12:28 PM

cap circumvention = big spender

Does not help you argument. ;D

11-13-2012 02:49 PM

Snyder is a smart man. If he truly thought it was bogus and he could prove it was, he would have proceeded with fighting it by now.

Kaylore 11-13-2012 03:25 PM

I've been digging into Socal's theory on the spending. I'll post my findings when I'm done, but just looking at a six year spread, If you take away free agents that signed with the team they were on (ie Free agents no one had any shot at), it's starting to show that the Broncos actually finished towards the top of the league in spending almost every year but a few - and those few we were up against the cap because of Shanahan's bad spending. The problem is that Shanahan was such a crappy GM that his draft prospects regularly bombed. That left him going after the dregs of the NFL, and frequently overspending for them, when the rest of the league was re-signing their home grown prospects. There are a few exceptions, obviously: Reggie Hayward, which was a good move to avoid, and Bertrand Berry, who didn't live up to his contract, but probably would have helped a line that had no pass rush.

However if you look at who was available, year after year Denver was toward the top of the league in spending. The problem is they were often not worth the contract Shanahan was offering them, were frequently cut the next year and that would bloat our cap and prevent movement the year after.

The real hole is, as I've always said, Shanahan knows how to manipulate the media. He would frequently get things leaked. It was well know that he had cart blanche while he was here and Bowlen never once interfered with the spending habits of Shanahan. Mike Shahanan made ALL the football decisions and everyone reported to him. This is an unequivocal fact.

SoCal loved him (didn't we all?) and is mad at Bowlen for firing him. He wants to create a revisionist history of why Shanny failed as a head coach, and had decided to concoct a story that Bowlen was sabotaging him at every turn. We all know Shanny wouldn't have tolerated that, we all know Bowlen has never behaved that way ever, we all if it happened at any point it would get out - and the evidence shows the numbers from the Forbes report includes free agents that never hit free agency - something that Shanahan's poor drafting (again HIS fault, not Bowlen's) never allowed him take advantage of that often.

Now Shanahan's got a pretty bad record going back five seasons and is showing his mismanagement problems in Wash as he did here. Meanwhile Bowlen has turned the reigns of the franchise over to Elway and "cheap ol' Bowlen" signed one of the biggest free agents ever and has turned the team into a contender again, winning just as many playoff games as Shanahan did while he was head coach after Elway retired.

Shanahan should be grateful Bowlen let him stay on as long as he did.

baja 11-13-2012 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore (Post 3725690)
I've been digging into Socal's theory on the spending. I'll post my findings when I'm done, but just looking at a six year spread, If you take away free agents that signed with the team they were on (ie Free agents no one had any shot at), it's starting to show that the Broncos actually finished towards the top of the league in spending almost every year but a few - and those few we were up against the cap because of Shanahan's bad spending. The problem is that Shanahan was such a crappy GM that his draft prospects regularly bombed. That left him going after the dregs of the NFL, and frequently overspending for them, when the rest of the league was re-signing their home grown prospects. There are a few exceptions, obviously: Reggie Hayward, which was a good move to avoid, and Bertrand Berry, who didn't live up to his contract, but probably would have helped a line that had no pass rush.

However if you look at who was available, year after year Denver was toward the top of the league in spending. The problem is they were often not worth the contract Shanahan was offering them, were frequently cut the next year and that would bloat our cap and prevent movement the year after.

The real hole is, as I've always said, Shanahan knows how to manipulate the media. He would frequently get things leaked. It was well know that he had cart blanche while he was here and Bowlen never once interfered with the spending habits of Shanahan. Mike Shahanan made ALL the football decisions and everyone reported to him. This is an unequivocal fact.

SoCal loved him (didn't we all?) and is mad at Bowlen for firing him. He wants to create a revisionist history of why Shanny failed as a head coach, and had decided to concoct a story that Bowlen was sabotaging him at every turn. We all know Shanny wouldn't have tolerated that, we all know Bowlen has never behaved that way ever, we all if it happened at any point it would get out - and the evidence shows the numbers from the Forbes report includes free agents that never hit free agency - something that Shanahan's poor drafting (again HIS fault, not Bowlen's) never allowed him take advantage of that often.

Now Shanahan's got a pretty bad record going back five seasons and is showing his mismanagement problems in Wash as he did here. Meanwhile Bowlen has turned the reigns of the franchise over to Elway and "cheap ol' Bowlen" signed one of the biggest free agents ever and has turned the team into a contender again, winning just as many playoff games as Shanahan did while he was head coach after Elway retired.

Shanahan should be grateful Bowlen let him stay on as long as he did.

Excellent post Kaylore wish I could rep it more than just one time. ;D

cutthemdown 11-13-2012 04:28 PM

Could elway win that executive of the yr award? He landed biggest FA ever.

lonestar 11-13-2012 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore (Post 3725690)
I've been digging into Socal's theory on the spending. I'll post my findings when I'm done, but just looking at a six year spread, If you take away free agents that signed with the team they were on (ie Free agents no one had any shot at), it's starting to show that the Broncos actually finished towards the top of the league in spending almost every year but a few - and those few we were up against the cap because of Shanahan's bad spending. The problem is that Shanahan was such a crappy GM that his draft prospects regularly bombed. That left him going after the dregs of the NFL, and frequently overspending for them, when the rest of the league was re-signing their home grown prospects. There are a few exceptions, obviously: Reggie Hayward, which was a good move to avoid, and Bertrand Berry, who didn't live up to his contract, but probably would have helped a line that had no pass rush.

However if you look at who was available, year after year Denver was toward the top of the league in spending. The problem is they were often not worth the contract Shanahan was offering them, were frequently cut the next year and that would bloat our cap and prevent movement the year after.

The real hole is, as I've always said, Shanahan knows how to manipulate the media. He would frequently get things leaked. It was well know that he had cart blanche while he was here and Bowlen never once interfered with the spending habits of Shanahan. Mike Shahanan made ALL the football decisions and everyone reported to him. This is an unequivocal fact.

SoCal loved him (didn't we all?) and is mad at Bowlen for firing him. He wants to create a revisionist history of why Shanny failed as a head coach, and had decided to concoct a story that Bowlen was sabotaging him at every turn. We all know Shanny wouldn't have tolerated that, we all know Bowlen has never behaved that way ever, we all if it happened at any point it would get out - and the evidence shows the numbers from the Forbes report includes free agents that never hit free agency - something that Shanahan's poor drafting (again HIS fault, not Bowlen's) never allowed him take advantage of that often.

Now Shanahan's got a pretty bad record going back five seasons and is showing his mismanagement problems in Wash as he did here. Meanwhile Bowlen has turned the reigns of the franchise over to Elway and "cheap ol' Bowlen" signed one of the biggest free agents ever and has turned the team into a contender again, winning just as many playoff games as Shanahan did while he was head coach after Elway retired.

Shanahan should be grateful Bowlen let him stay on as long as he did.

looking forward to the final report..

which should put to bed the Male Bovine Excrement of the mikey is God crowd..

I remember how many years we had to ask TD, John IIRC Rod, Jake and a few others to redo their contract getting up front bonus money instead of salary to get under the cap each year..

Like you said that further screwed us next year because that bonus money was a part of the cap, albeit prorated money, but when you have 4 or 5 of those going at one time and compound that with dead money because the moron mikey signed and never played or was cut the year before killed us also..

I read somewhere that one year we had right at 20 million tied up in the dead money and salary that was prorated..

ZONA 11-13-2012 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 3725381)
Well, Baja all those guys there are pretty much minimum wage guys! McGahee is making a little over two million. Outside of Manning Denver has not spent a lot of money in FA. Tamme and Dreesen were the big off season acquisitions.

Porter is on a 1 year deal Adams is $2 million a year guy. Broncos went pretty cheap outside of Manning, but they are getting a lot of bang for their buck. That is the most important part.

It's not that Bowlen is broke he can just never remember where his check book is!:spit:

To be fair, they had alot of money tied up in Manning without really knowing what they were going to get. Now that they see how things have unfolded, and they see a real chance at getting a Superbowl, I betcha they spend plenty next year. There is a time to save and be frugal and there is a time to spend. It just depends on the window.

11-13-2012 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja (Post 3725499)
What will it be next season, record May fly hatch?

I'm ok with this.

Brown Drakes FTW

lonestar 11-13-2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZONA (Post 3725828)
To be fair, they had alot of money tied up in Manning without really knowing what they were going to get. Now that they see how things have unfolded, and they see a real chance at getting a Superbowl, I betcha they spend plenty next year. There is a time to save and be frugal and there is a time to spend. It just depends on the window.

Realizing they spent a ton last year only had about 10 mil or so left over to spend thinking they would be resigning Clady. Not sure how much I'd going to be available to spend this coming year.

With about 20% of your cap going to one player another 10+% going to doom plus 10 or so for champ, there probably will not be much wiggle room. And we have a load of UFA after this year short term rentals to see if they were worth keeping or not.

Guessing we lose 10 to 12 players to FA after how they have played.

Better have a great draft for some cheaper depth.

baja 11-13-2012 08:28 PM

We need JMCElway to give us a cap run down.

TD4HOF 11-13-2012 08:37 PM

Elway could give Jerry West, Ozzy Newsome et al a run for crown of best player/executive combo when it's all said and done. This is Red Auerbach and Larry Bird rolled up into one. If he wins a SB or three, of course.

BroncoFanDoug 11-13-2012 09:00 PM

Always a bit perplexed when people get mad we don't spend up to the cap or spend tons and tons on a single talent that would definitely help the team.

It's a CAP. There is only so much to spend. You are always gonna want a little wiggle room to manage any unforeseen problems that come up.

And you are always looking for VALUE - added quality to the team per dollar spent.

We want to be about dynasty, not 1 year wonder.


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