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-   -   is the US driving the world toward Armageddon? (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=115470)

mhgaffney 05-13-2014 05:11 PM

is the US driving the world toward Armageddon?
 
Yes, according to Paul Craig Roberts. Read why...

May 13 (King World News) - Washington Is Driving The World To The Final War

By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

When the Soviet Union collapsed, it cleared the way for the rise of the neoconservatives and their ideology of U.S. world hegemony. The neoconservatives concluded that the Soviet collapse brought the end of history, by which they meant that history had chosen “American democratic capitalism,” which is neither democratic nor capitalist, as history’s final statement. History’s choice gives the government of the “exceptional, indispensable” American people the right to world hegemony. The problem for the neoconservatives is that not all of the world agrees with “history’s choice.” Independent states, such as Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Iran, China, and Russia did not see themselves as provinces in Washington’s empire. Neither do India, Brazil, South Africa, Venezuela, Bolivia, and Ecuador.

The neoconservatives made a concerted and successful effort to take control of U.S. foreign policy and military doctrine. With the Clinton regime’s attack on Serbia, Washington began eliminating governments that are obstacles to its hegemony.

The U.S. government has overthrown the Iraqi and Libyan governments with military force, instigated a military attack by outside Islamist forces on the Syrian government, demonized Iran as a precursor to military attack, captured the former Russian province of Georgia in a U.S.-financed “color revolution,” overthrown the elected Honduran government, unleashed orchestrated protests against the government of Venezuela, threatened Bolivia and Ecuador, routinely attacks with drones and missiles populations in Pakistan and Yemen, and has been at war against the Taliban in Afghani- stan for 13 years.

Iran, Russia, and China are being surrounded with U.S. military bases, and now the neoconservatives in Washington have captured Ukraine with a Washing- ton-sponsored coup against a democratically elected government. Washington claims that the Ukraine government was corrupt. Corrupt like who — Washington and the EU?

Washington’s coup in Ukraine brought not only a threat to the Russian population in Ukraine but also a direct strategic threat to Russia itself. The Russian government got in the way of Washington’s march to hegemony by, together with the UK parliament, blocking Obama’s military invasion of Syria and by producing a diplomatic solution to Iranian enrichment of uranium for nuclear energy. Washington was much annoyed as Washington had invested much time and money in setting up Syria and Iran for military attack.

Washington concluded that Russia needed to be confronted with, or distracted by, problems that would leave the Russian government less confident or able to counter Washington’s aggression elsewhere....

Ukraine presented the perfect opportunity for Washington to advance its hegemonic agenda. In
a speech at the National Press Club last December, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland boasted that Washington had invested $5 billion in non- governmental organizations (NGOs) in Ukraine. Allegedly, the purpose of NGOs is to “teach democracy.” However, Ukraine already had a democracy. In reality the NGO organizations are U.S. fifth columns that can be used to organize protests and to provide support for Washington’s candidates for the Ukraine government.

Western pressure was applied to the democratically elected government of President Victor Yanukovich to join the EU. The Ukrainian government considered the proposal and decided rationally that the Ukraine economy was integrated with the Russian economy and that the trade, subsidy, and loan advantages of its association with Russia were worth more than EU membership, which would likely bring an IMF adjustment program that would result in the looting of the Ukraine economy. When Ukraine declined EU membership, Washington set in motion its NGO fifth columns. Protests began in Kiev demand- ing that the elected government change its mind and join the EU.

The protests were nonviolent until well-organized ultra-nationalist organizations, such as the Right Sector introduced violence and took over the pro- tests, changing the demands from joining the EU to overthrowing the democratic government. President Yanukovich had reached an agreement with EU representatives to implement constitutional changes that could result in Ukraine being voted into the EU, but this agreement fell by the wayside with the rise of the Right Sector’s takeover of the protests.

for the rest...

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne...Final_War.html

mhgaffney 05-13-2014 05:19 PM

Ukraine is going to be a trial - maybe a nightmare -- for clowns around here limited by a very short attention span.

Why?

Because according to Zbigniew Brzezinski Ukraine is part of the heartland of Europe -- and is crucial for the stability of Europe. This is not the Balkans. The present crisis may well continue for many years.

mhgaffney 05-13-2014 05:26 PM

New York Times
 
Why did the US deploy advanced patriot missiles in Poland, near the Russian border, in 2010?

Poland to Deploy U.S. Missiles Near Russia

By JUDY DEMPSEY
Published: January 21, 2010

BERLIN
— Three months after the United States announced a reformulated missile-defense plan for Poland, the Polish defense minister has announced that American surface-to-air missiles will be deployed near Russian soil.

The minister, Bogdan Klich, said Wednesday that an undisclosed number of missiles would be deployed in the vicinity of Morag, in northern Poland, just 35 miles from the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad. He said the missiles could arrive as soon as late March or early April.

He said the decision to base the missiles near Morag, and not Warsaw, had no political or strategic significance. “The only reason was the good infrastructure,” Mr. Klich said.

The United States had promised the missiles to Poland in October, after President Obama had scrapped a missile-defense system proposed by President George W. Bush.

Morag is already home to a Polish military base. Mr. Klich said it could easily be adapted to the needs of the new missile battery and the American soldiers who would be based in Poland once the missiles were sent there.

While the placement of the missiles so close to Russia could be seen as provocative, Russia denied a report that it planned to increase the arsenal of its Baltic Fleet in response to Poland’s announcement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/wo...land.html?_r=0

mhgaffney 05-13-2014 05:29 PM

We are told these missiles will protect Europe from Iran. Does anyone believe this? Except for idiots like W*gs and Elsid, even the man on the street has enough brains to see this for the lie that it is. MHG

W*GS 05-13-2014 06:07 PM

More gaffe swallowing of PCR spooge.

elsid13 05-13-2014 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4111755)
We are told these missiles will protect Europe from Iran. Does anyone believe this? Except for idiots like W*gs and Elsid, even the man on the street has enough brains to see this for the lie that it is. MHG

You keep on posting like that, and I'm going to take you off my Christmas Card list.

cutthemdown 05-13-2014 07:35 PM

THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!

Rohirrim 05-13-2014 07:38 PM

The U.S. government has overthrown the Iraqi and Libyan governments with military force, instigated a military attack by outside Islamist forces on the Syrian government, demonized Iran as a precursor to military attack, captured the former Russian province of Georgia in a U.S.-financed “color revolution,” overthrown the elected Honduran government, unleashed orchestrated protests against the government of Venezuela, threatened Bolivia and Ecuador, routinely attacks with drones and missiles populations in Pakistan and Yemen, and has been at war against the Taliban in Afghani- stan for 13 years.

Iran, Russia, and China are being surrounded with U.S. military bases, and now the neoconservatives in Washington have captured Ukraine with a Washing- ton-sponsored coup against a democratically elected government. Washington claims that the Ukraine government was corrupt. Corrupt like who — Washington and the EU?


Uhh I hate to break it to you, Gaffo, but this guy is nuts.

DenverBrit 05-13-2014 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 4111828)
The U.S. government has overthrown the Iraqi and Libyan governments with military force, instigated a military attack by outside Islamist forces on the Syrian government, demonized Iran as a precursor to military attack, captured the former Russian province of Georgia in a U.S.-financed “color revolution,” overthrown the elected Honduran government, unleashed orchestrated protests against the government of Venezuela, threatened Bolivia and Ecuador, routinely attacks with drones and missiles populations in Pakistan and Yemen, and has been at war against the Taliban in Afghani- stan for 13 years.

Iran, Russia, and China are being surrounded with U.S. military bases, and now the neoconservatives in Washington have captured Ukraine with a Washing- ton-sponsored coup against a democratically elected government. Washington claims that the Ukraine government was corrupt. Corrupt like who — Washington and the EU?


Uhh I hate to break it to you, Gaffo, but this guy is nuts.

Gaffo knows that. They share a rubber room. :loopy:

W*GS 05-13-2014 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverBrit (Post 4111862)
Gaffo knows that. They share a rubber room. :loopy:

gaffe always brings the rubbers when he's PCR's "bottom".

baja 05-13-2014 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS (Post 4111768)
More gaffe swallowing of PCR spooge.


That's all you have to do to get paid?

Can I get a job with your outfit.

I can post pics of lizards & refer to male bodily fluids with the best of them.

Do we get paid by the post or by the word?

ant1999e 05-14-2014 11:07 AM

How Russia Defeated the United States
 
http://kerry-patton.com/how-russia-d...united-states/

Controversial for many, I am sure, but truth be told, whether anyone likes it or not, Russia has all the trump cards stacked against the United States right now. This means, in reality, they defeated us—well, at least during this iteration of the ongoing Cold War. But how? How did Russia accomplish this task is a question that must be asked.
Unlike the United States, Russia, like the majority of countries, doesn’t play any game based on time. Time is on their side. And when it comes to Russian operations against the United States, they stayed on track keeping their eyes and ears close to the monitor tracking our every move. Unfortunately, during the late 80’s, when President Reagan confronted the old Soviet Union, most Westerns believed the game was over and we won. Unfortunately, we didn’t really win anything. But worse, we took our eyes off the ball.
Russia played a very methodical infiltration game that took a prolonged amount of time to actually play. It was a game of old school influence operations. They groomed their own citizens at birth to learn how to become masters at infiltration into western societies. Today, oligarchs run rampant behind the scenes in Hollywood and American media influencing a magnitude of information that socially conditions us. Just ask yourself why the 2012 remake of the 1980’s Patrick Swayze hit Red Dawn had nothing to do about Russia but instead everything to do with North Korea.
Russian Spy Anna Chapman and her crew were not necessarily conducting the traditional spy-game of espionage. They were infiltrators. And once they infiltrated the system or network of their choosing, they would begin a unique influence campaign. Maybe we should keep a closer eye on Mikhail Prokhorov, owner of the Brooklyn Nets, and begin asking the critical question as to why he really wishes to relocate his team to Russia.
We have been influenced by Russian operatives and many believe this is all some black helicopter conspiracy but ask any US intelligence officer who works Russian operations and they will confirm everything here. But how good has Russia been with their influence operations?
Look at today’s Department of Education, Common Core, nationally mandated testing of public school children. Look at our Department of Environmental Protection and the ridiculous rules and regulation for what land owners and companies can and cannot do. Federal entities are full of agents of influence.
Look at US natural gas production. Understand that we are the world’s number one producer of natural gas but ask, why we are not the world’s number one exporter of such a commodity. The answer is simple. We placed too much red tape on our refinement that fails to allow exportation into Europe. Think someone or several people here in the United States with some Russian influence had anything to do with making those strict rules and regulations? Count on it.
Who cares about natural gas, right?
It just so happens to be that Russia is the world’s number one exporter of natural gas. For them, that is their first trump card. Now begin to look at their physical actions throughout Eastern Europe. What would sanctions do to stop Russia’s expansion in the Ukraine? Where will they go next—Georgia, Albania, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland? You tell me. Scary question here though, but what would stop them? I assure you it won’t be sanctions.
Sanctions cannot stop Russia. They can easily play against sanctions and merely stop all exportation of their natural gas into Western Europe. That would be a vital blow to Europe not only crippling their energy infrastructure but also economically. The cost to import the limited amounts of US natural gas we actually could export today would be overwhelming (unless of course, refining red-tape is lifted and we begin the processing immediately).
Economically, Russia has a trump card. But they have even a bigger trump card few ever thought about—Space. As The Telegraph reported earlier today, Russia has decided to ban the United States from using the International Space Station. The biggest mistake in modern US history was ridding our space program. Think about it. How much of our own military might is dependent upon our space systems? Shut our space assets down, and our military might is crippled. To me, that is the biggest trump card Russia has today.
Let me be blunt. We are screwed. Sure, we are screwed but this doesn’t mean anyone needs to enter a state of paranoia. We just need to realize through some gap analysis our own shortfalls and be willing to rectify them—and fast. Russia took off the gloves and we continue to sit in the corner listening to our cut man when in reality we should have realized we are not in a boxing match. We are in a street fight without any rules. We can still win the ongoing war against Russia but right now, we are getting our asses kicked in this current battle.

W*GS 05-14-2014 11:46 AM

Russia "beat" the US because Putin is a virile man with a huge cock, and Obama is a weak fag.

Right, righties?

baja 05-14-2014 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS (Post 4112105)
Russia "beat" the US because Putin is a virile man with a huge cock, and Obama is a weak fag.

Right, righties?

That's all you have to do to get paid?

Can I get a job with your outfit.

I can post pics of lizards & refer to male bodily fluids and /or member size with the best of them.

Do we get paid by the post or by the word?

orinjkrush 05-14-2014 11:57 AM

Russia and China have some very very big economic trump cards right now. Gold and Gas and Manufacturing.

But the US has the big military trump card. We could wipe them both out (with a lot of collateral damage, though).

Our real ace in the hole is that we have bigger and a lot more deranged psychopaths running our show, who are not afraid to **** it all up to get what they want.

Putin and Kim Jong Un got nothin on us. We got Henry Paulson and Jon Corzine and Lloyd Blankfein.

Vall Strasse uber alles!

baja 05-14-2014 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orinjkrush (Post 4112110)
Russia and China have some very very big economic trump cards right now. Gold and Gas and Manufacturing.

But the US has the big military trump card. We could wipe them both out (with a lot of collateral damage, though).

Our real ace in the hole is that we have bigger and a lot more deranged psychopaths running our show, who are not afraid to **** it all up to get what they want.

Putin and Kim Jong Un got nothin on us. We got Henry Paulson and Jon Corzine and Lloyd Blankfein.

Vall Strasse uber alles!

LOL


Fear the psychopath, Fear the psychopath, Fear the psychopath - truly Fear the psychopath

bronco militia 05-14-2014 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4111750)
Why did the US deploy advanced patriot missiles in Poland, near the Russian border, in 2010?

Poland to Deploy U.S. Missiles Near Russia

By JUDY DEMPSEY
Published: January 21, 2010

BERLIN
— Three months after the United States announced a reformulated missile-defense plan for Poland, the Polish defense minister has announced that American surface-to-air missiles will be deployed near Russian soil.

The minister, Bogdan Klich, said Wednesday that an undisclosed number of missiles would be deployed in the vicinity of Morag, in northern Poland, just 35 miles from the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad. He said the missiles could arrive as soon as late March or early April.

He said the decision to base the missiles near Morag, and not Warsaw, had no political or strategic significance. “The only reason was the good infrastructure,” Mr. Klich said.

The United States had promised the missiles to Poland in October, after President Obama had scrapped a missile-defense system proposed by President George W. Bush.

Morag is already home to a Polish military base. Mr. Klich said it could easily be adapted to the needs of the new missile battery and the American soldiers who would be based in Poland once the missiles were sent there.

While the placement of the missiles so close to Russia could be seen as provocative, Russia denied a report that it planned to increase the arsenal of its Baltic Fleet in response to Poland’s announcement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/wo...land.html?_r=0

Surface to air missiles are for Air Defense....what is Putin afraid of? Secret Nuclear tipped surface to air missiles?

mhgaffney 05-14-2014 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco militia (Post 4112115)
Surface to air missiles are for Air Defense....what is Putin afraid of? Secret Nuclear tipped surface to air missiles?

Good you mentioned this. The US claims the placement is to defend Europe against Iranian missiles -- which is absurd. Only fools like W*gs believe this.

Why then install ABMs in Poland?

The answer is scary. These missiles are part of the US nuclear first strike policy. They would take out any remaining Russian missiles that might survive a US first strike and be used in a counter attack against the US.

ABMs are ineffective to stop a first strike -- but might be very effective against a counter attack, involving far fewer ICBMs.

In fact, this is the only plausible reason for installing US ABMs in Poland.
MHG

mhgaffney 05-14-2014 12:56 PM

Excellent piece by John Pilger that agrees with PCR. MHG

Break the Silence: a World War is Beckoning

By John Pilger
Global Research, May 14, 2014


Why do we ­tolerate the threat of ­another world war in our name?

Why do we allow lies that justify this risk? The scale of our ­indoctrination, wrote Harold Pinter, is a “brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of ­hypnosis”, as if the truth “never happened even while it was happening”.

Every year the American historian William Blum publishes his “updated summary of the record of US foreign policy” which shows that, since 1945, the US has tried to ­overthrow more than 50 governments, many democratically elected; grossly interfered in elections in 30 countries; bombed the civilian populations of 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons; and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/break-t...koning/5382248

Rohirrim 05-14-2014 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant1999e (Post 4112082)
http://kerry-patton.com/how-russia-d...united-states/

Controversial for many, I am sure, but truth be told, whether anyone likes it or not, Russia has all the trump cards stacked against the United States right now. This means, in reality, they defeated us—well, at least during this iteration of the ongoing Cold War. But how? How did Russia accomplish this task is a question that must be asked.
Unlike the United States, Russia, like the majority of countries, doesn’t play any game based on time. Time is on their side. And when it comes to Russian operations against the United States, they stayed on track keeping their eyes and ears close to the monitor tracking our every move. Unfortunately, during the late 80’s, when President Reagan confronted the old Soviet Union, most Westerns believed the game was over and we won. Unfortunately, we didn’t really win anything. But worse, we took our eyes off the ball.
Russia played a very methodical infiltration game that took a prolonged amount of time to actually play. It was a game of old school influence operations. They groomed their own citizens at birth to learn how to become masters at infiltration into western societies. Today, oligarchs run rampant behind the scenes in Hollywood and American media influencing a magnitude of information that socially conditions us. Just ask yourself why the 2012 remake of the 1980’s Patrick Swayze hit Red Dawn had nothing to do about Russia but instead everything to do with North Korea.
Russian Spy Anna Chapman and her crew were not necessarily conducting the traditional spy-game of espionage. They were infiltrators. And once they infiltrated the system or network of their choosing, they would begin a unique influence campaign. Maybe we should keep a closer eye on Mikhail Prokhorov, owner of the Brooklyn Nets, and begin asking the critical question as to why he really wishes to relocate his team to Russia.
We have been influenced by Russian operatives and many believe this is all some black helicopter conspiracy but ask any US intelligence officer who works Russian operations and they will confirm everything here. But how good has Russia been with their influence operations?
Look at today’s Department of Education, Common Core, nationally mandated testing of public school children. Look at our Department of Environmental Protection and the ridiculous rules and regulation for what land owners and companies can and cannot do. Federal entities are full of agents of influence.
Look at US natural gas production. Understand that we are the world’s number one producer of natural gas but ask, why we are not the world’s number one exporter of such a commodity. The answer is simple. We placed too much red tape on our refinement that fails to allow exportation into Europe. Think someone or several people here in the United States with some Russian influence had anything to do with making those strict rules and regulations? Count on it.
Who cares about natural gas, right?
It just so happens to be that Russia is the world’s number one exporter of natural gas. For them, that is their first trump card. Now begin to look at their physical actions throughout Eastern Europe. What would sanctions do to stop Russia’s expansion in the Ukraine? Where will they go next—Georgia, Albania, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland? You tell me. Scary question here though, but what would stop them? I assure you it won’t be sanctions.
Sanctions cannot stop Russia. They can easily play against sanctions and merely stop all exportation of their natural gas into Western Europe. That would be a vital blow to Europe not only crippling their energy infrastructure but also economically. The cost to import the limited amounts of US natural gas we actually could export today would be overwhelming (unless of course, refining red-tape is lifted and we begin the processing immediately).
Economically, Russia has a trump card. But they have even a bigger trump card few ever thought about—Space. As The Telegraph reported earlier today, Russia has decided to ban the United States from using the International Space Station. The biggest mistake in modern US history was ridding our space program. Think about it. How much of our own military might is dependent upon our space systems? Shut our space assets down, and our military might is crippled. To me, that is the biggest trump card Russia has today.
Let me be blunt. We are screwed. Sure, we are screwed but this doesn’t mean anyone needs to enter a state of paranoia. We just need to realize through some gap analysis our own shortfalls and be willing to rectify them—and fast. Russia took off the gloves and we continue to sit in the corner listening to our cut man when in reality we should have realized we are not in a boxing match. We are in a street fight without any rules. We can still win the ongoing war against Russia but right now, we are getting our asses kicked in this current battle.

Can't run a space program while doling out 50% tax cuts to the rich and their corporations. Fortunately, they're keeping those piles of money safe in offshore banks so if we ever need it... wait a minute.

bronco militia 05-14-2014 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4112126)
Good you mentioned this. The US claims the placement is to defend Europe against Iranian missiles -- which is absurd. Only fools like W*gs believe this.

Why then install ABMs in Poland?

The answer is scary. These missiles are part of the US nuclear first strike policy. They would take out any remaining Russian missiles that might survive a US first strike and be used in a counter attack against the US.

ABMs are ineffective to stop a first strike -- but might be very effective against a counter attack, involving far fewer ICBMs.

In fact, this is the only plausible reason for installing US ABMs in Poland.
MHG

this is a ridiculous argument....nevermind the hundreds of ICBM's in the US, and in Europe, the sea launched ICBM's, cruise missiles on B-52's, B-1's, and aboard other sea vessels. Putin has cried and b****ed about this missile shield for years and finally got his way with Obummer. Putin has been emboldened ever since.

W*GS 05-14-2014 01:25 PM

gaffe ought to move to Russia.

Johnykbr 05-14-2014 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant1999e (Post 4112082)
Just ask yourself why the 2012 remake of the 1980’s Patrick Swayze hit Red Dawn had nothing to do about Russia but instead everything to do with North Korea

The movie was originally shot where the Chinese were the bad guys but China threatened to block all MGM movies that year because of it. Also, the Russians were included as bad guys in the remake as well. They were "advisors" to the task force that invaded the US.

This movie was terrible but had a very interesting history when it came to it being developed.

elsid13 05-14-2014 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4112126)
Good you mentioned this. The US claims the placement is to defend Europe against Iranian missiles -- which is absurd. Only fools like W*gs believe this.

Why then install ABMs in Poland?

The answer is scary. These missiles are part of the US nuclear first strike policy. They would take out any remaining Russian missiles that might survive a US first strike and be used in a counter attack against the US.

ABMs are ineffective to stop a first strike -- but might be very effective against a counter attack, involving far fewer ICBMs.

In fact, this is the only plausible reason for installing US ABMs in Poland.
MHG

You are confusing two different weapon system and their capabilities, and you are making stuff up on the use of ABM to justify your point. The arrival of Short Range Surface to Air Batteries is very non-hostile act. First Russian Military understand the SAM capabilities and know the provide little risk to their military front, second they also understand the symbolic gesture that US in making by deploying force to NATO allies.

Arkie 05-14-2014 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant1999e (Post 4112082)
The biggest mistake in modern US history was ridding our space program. Think about it. How much of our own military might is dependent upon our space systems? Shut our space assets down, and our military might is crippled. To me, that is the biggest trump card Russia has today.
Let me be blunt. We are screwed.

Come at me bro!

http://edge1.politicususa.netdna-cdn...re-485x363.jpg

elsid13 05-14-2014 05:51 PM

I would to point out that AF runs the same program and those assets managed by SPACOM were not dependent on NASA launch program.

bronco militia 05-14-2014 09:27 PM

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9756/...c9b77_orig.gif

DenverBrit 05-14-2014 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco militia (Post 4112441)

Ha!

Guess Who 05-15-2014 12:58 AM

If John McCain was elected we would have had wars in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran and Ukraine. Oh yeah we would also still be in Iraq.

Rohirrim 05-15-2014 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guess Who (Post 4112563)
If John McCain was elected we would have had wars in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran and Ukraine. Oh yeah we would also still be in Iraq.

Don't forget Nigeria. He said we should have sent troops after those girls last week.

mhgaffney 05-15-2014 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco militia (Post 4112153)
this is a ridiculous argument....nevermind the hundreds of ICBM's in the US, and in Europe, the sea launched ICBM's, cruise missiles on B-52's, B-1's, and aboard other sea vessels. Putin has cried and b****ed about this missile shield for years and finally got his way with Obummer. Putin has been emboldened ever since.

I also believed that Obama had wisely canceled the Poland ABMs. I was wrong. According to the NY Times article I posted the US installed patriot ground to air missiles in Poland in 2010.

They can have no use other than to defend against a Russian nuclear counter attack- -- assuming a US nuclear first strike.

The US moved toward nuclear primacy during the GW Bush presidency. Check it out,
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dpress/doc...Primacy_FA.pdf

mhgaffney 05-15-2014 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim (Post 4111828)
The U.S. government has overthrown the Iraqi and Libyan governments with military force, instigated a military attack by outside Islamist forces on the Syrian government, demonized Iran as a precursor to military attack, captured the former Russian province of Georgia in a U.S.-financed “color revolution,” overthrown the elected Honduran government, unleashed orchestrated protests against the government of Venezuela, threatened Bolivia and Ecuador, routinely attacks with drones and missiles populations in Pakistan and Yemen, and has been at war against the Taliban in Afghani- stan for 13 years.

Iran, Russia, and China are being surrounded with U.S. military bases, and now the neoconservatives in Washington have captured Ukraine with a Washing- ton-sponsored coup against a democratically elected government. Washington claims that the Ukraine government was corrupt. Corrupt like who — Washington and the EU?


Uhh I hate to break it to you, Gaffo, but this guy is nuts.

NO, PCR is spot on.

You don't understand the world you live in.

The US encirclement of Russia and China has been policy for many years. MHG

Check it out.
Global Military Alliance: Encircling Russia and China

US sponsored military partnership in the Far East and the Pacific Rim


http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-...and-china/5605

W*GS 05-15-2014 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4112897)
I also believed that Obama had wisely canceled the Poland ABMs. I was wrong. According to the NY Times article I posted the US installed patriot ground to air missiles in Poland in 2010.

They can have no use other than to defend against a Russian nuclear counter attack- -- assuming a US nuclear first strike.

Nope.

You make categorical statements that are utter bull****.

Explain to me why the US would launch hundreds of nukes at Russia as a first strike.

mhgaffney 05-15-2014 02:23 PM

Nuclear primacy is a crazy policy -- but evidently that's what you get when sociopaths run the country.

W*GS 05-15-2014 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4112913)
Nuclear primacy is a crazy policy -- but evidently that's what you get when sociopaths run the country.

Not what I asked.

Why would the US launch a first strike against Russia?

mhgaffney 05-15-2014 03:43 PM

W*Gs, you should put that question to the lunatics running our country.

BroncsRule 05-15-2014 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4112897)
I also believed that Obama had wisely canceled the Poland ABMs. I was wrong. According to the NY Times article I posted the US installed patriot ground to air missiles in Poland in 2010.

They can have no use other than to defend against a Russian nuclear counter attack- -- assuming a US nuclear first strike.

The US moved toward nuclear primacy during the GW Bush presidency. Check it out,
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dpress/doc...Primacy_FA.pdf

Your ignorance truly is breathtaking.

Patriot lacks the range, altitude and technical sophistication to be the least bit effective against ballistic missiles coming in from LEO at mach 26.

They're only +/- 70% effective against SCUD-like short and medium range missiles (the sort that Iran is capable of producing).

So - for their stated purpose, the Patriot batteries in Turkey are at least somewhat combat effective. Slighly moreso as a political/PR tool.

In your proposed hairbrained conspiracy fantasy role, they would be completely useless.

W*GS 05-15-2014 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney (Post 4112951)
W*Gs, you should put that question to the lunatics running our country.

It takes a loony to know a loony.

Now, why would the US launch a first-strike against Russia? What would America gain?

Expain, please.

mhgaffney 05-15-2014 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncsRule (Post 4112952)
Your ignorance truly is breathtaking.

Patriot lacks the range, altitude and technical sophistication to be the least bit effective against ballistic missiles coming in from LEO at mach 26.


They're only +/- 70% effective against SCUD-like short and medium range missiles (the sort that Iran is capable of producing).

So - for their stated purpose, the Patriot batteries in Turkey are at least somewhat combat effective. Slighly moreso as a political/PR tool.

In your proposed hairbrained conspiracy fantasy role, they would be completely useless.

You should do some homework BEFORE opening your big mouth. The Patriots in Poland is only the first step.

Obama reset theUS relationship with Russia after he came into office, and backtracked on Bush's planned ABM system for eastern Europe.

The system that Bush wanted -- US land based interceptors -- was part of a US nuclear first strike plan.

Obama installed patriot missiles instead -- which as you say are designed to stop only short range and intermediate range missiles. However, since the US coup in Ukraine that destroyed an elected government and substituted in its place A US-puppet nationalist government that is now following orders from the White House, everything has changed..

The US intends to revive Bush's ABM land based interceptor system -- and this is indeed part of a first strike plan. They will be installed in Poland next year. MHG

Ukraine Refocuses Debate on US Missile Defense


Originally published at
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...3317828&rank=1

Posted on March 12, 2014 by editor

Tensions with Russia over Ukraine have led lawmakers and former military leaders to suggest the Obama administration take a tougher defensive posture toward Russia and revisit previous U.S. plans to build land-based missile defense technology in Poland and the Czech Republic.

“There are military options that don’t involve putting troops on the ground in Crimea. We could go back and reinstate the ballistic missile defense program that was taken out. It was originally going to go in Poland and Czech Republic. Obama took it out to appease Putin,” former Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday on CBS’ Face the Nation program.

The prior plan he mentioned involved constructing missile silos in Poland with Ground Based Interceptors, or GBIs, and radar in the Czech Republic. It was implemented and begun when Cheney was in office as vice president during the George W. Bush administration.

While development of the missile silos in Poland had already begun, this plan was canceled in 2009 when the Obama administration reset relations with Russia. Russia had been strongly opposed to the construction of any kind of missile defense technology close to its borders.

Resetting relations with Russia paved the way for the Obama administration to broker the New START Treaty in 2010 — a U.S.-Russian bilateral agreement to limit ICBMs, launchers and warheads.

Also speaking on CBS’ Face the Nation, Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., questioned the Russian reset policy and said the current administration should revisit missile defense in light of the problems in Ukraine.

“I think we should definitely revisit missile defense. I think if President Obama himself revisited missile defense that would be a very strong signal. I think you could charitably describe the reset policy as naive wishful thinking,” he said.

In place of the Ground Based Interceptor site in Poland, the Obama administration chose to implement what’s called the European Phased Adaptive Approach — an effort to use ship-based Aegis radar and Standard Missile-3 technology to provide a protective envelope for missile defense.

Known as Aegis Ashore, the plan calls for land-based missile defense sites in Romania by 2015 and Poland by 2018, said Rick Lehner, spokesman for the Missile Defense Agency.

Lehner did not comment on various opinions about restarting land-based European GBI development, but did say the Pentagon’s Aegis Ashore effort was progressing. Development of the Aegis Ashore site in Romania is already underway, he said.

“The program of record is Aegis Ashore in Romania and Poland. It will be operational by the end of 2015,” he explained. “We will have our first Aegis Ashore flight test from Hawaii in the next three to four months.”

The Romanian Aegis Ashore site will be configured to fire the SM-3 IB interceptor missile, Lehner said. However, the Polish site for 2018 will be able to fire the larger, more powerful SM-3 IIA missile, which has a longer range, he added.

Unlike the SM-3 weapon, land-based GBIs like those planned for Poland are designed to knock ICBMs out of the sky during the midcourse phase of flight when the incoming missile is in space.

“The GBIs are primarily designed against the type of ICBMs that could be developed by North Korea and Iran — and the Aegis Ashore technology is designed for use against short- to intermediate-range ballistic missiles,” Lehner said.

mhgaffney 05-15-2014 06:49 PM

This board is woefully uninformed (and worse, misinformed) about the world you live in.

Here is a golden opportunity to remedy the problem. This backgrounder by former CIA analyst Ray McGovern reviews the history and shows that the US broke promises made to Gorbachev at the end of the Cold War.

These broken promises are at the root of the present crisis in Ukraine

No less a figure than former US ambassador to Moscow George Kennan warned back in 1997 that “Expanding NATO [into eastern Europe] would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-cold-war era.”

MHG

How NATO Jabs Russia on Ukraine
May 15, 2014

Exclusive: The U.S. mainstream media portrays the Ukraine crisis as a case of Russian “imperialism,” but the reality is that Moscow has been reacting to aggressive moves by Washington to expand NATO to Russia’s border in violation of a post-Cold War pledge, writes ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern.

By Ray McGovern

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov used Wednesday’s interview with Bloomberg News to address the overriding issue regarding the future of Ukraine, at least from Moscow’s perspective. Speaking in fluent English, he said Russia would be “categorically against” Ukraine joining NATO.

Lavrov said he welcomed the interviewer’s question regarding whether Ukraine can be part of NATO, recognizing it as a chance to shoehorn background information into the interview. It was an opportunity to explain Moscow’s position to a wide English-speaking international audience – first and foremost Americans. His comments seemed partly aimed at those so malnourished on “mainstream media” that they might be learning the history of NATO enlargement for the first time.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/05/15...ia-on-ukraine/


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