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ghwk
09-13-2011, 09:51 PM
I would rather watch Tebow fail at trying to succeed than Orton succeed at trying not to fail.

I know that is a bit lopsided and backwards from being a homer but from a fan excitement standpoint I'd at least be willing to watch a whole game because of the randomness of the outcome rather than the certainty of an impossible come from behind defeat.

'nuff said

Dagmar
09-13-2011, 09:59 PM
http://pics.livejournal.com/fallenwarrior/pic/0006s9fs

Just bustin' your balls.

baja
09-13-2011, 10:02 PM
It looks like Fox was the worse choice for HC for Tebow. He has no imagination, old school is not what Tebow needs I hope he ends up on a team that sees his possibilities. What a waste!

vonqkilla
09-13-2011, 10:05 PM
Reports tonite say the players are sick of the controversy, and if I read it right, its really bothering Neckbeard, not that we didn't know that.

ghwk
09-13-2011, 10:11 PM
We're not sick of controversy we are sick of losing.

Dagmar
09-13-2011, 10:17 PM
Reports tonite say the players are sick of the controversy, and if I read it right, its really bothering Neckbeard, not that we didn't know that.

Link? Where did you get this info?

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 10:19 PM
Good, it will lead to cutting or trading Tebow and then fans will really show Elway what its like to be booed at home. I don't envy EFXs position at all right now. Sorry ass team and your biggest fears as an organization will come true if you cater to the vets anymore than you already have. Cut or trade Tebow and they will end up with boo birds everywhere followed closely by empty seats all over SA Field. They're pretty much fu***d at this point. Not trading Orton will turn out to be their downfall.

It's all pretty simple too. Tebow stinks up the field and they get their QB in 2012 and fans stop boring b/c they finally got to see what Tebow could do... If by some miracle he does well and is promising enough, you're a year further into building your team and can focus on the trenches finally. Don't play Tebow and the fans will always hold that against them. Cut or trade him and watch him have success like Hills and they will never live it down. I get they can't do that just yet, the Vets will give up... Tells me all I need to know about these vets. But anyhow, in three weeks when Orton leads us to an 0-4 record they can sell the change easily enough.

baja
09-13-2011, 10:24 PM
Good, it will lead to cutting or trading Tebow and then fans will really show Elway what its like to be booed at home. I don't envy EFXs position at all right now. Sorry ass team and your biggest fears as an organization will come true if you cater to the vets anymore than you already have. Cut or trade Tebow and they will end up with boo birds everywhere followed closely by empty seats all over SA Field. They're pretty much *****d at this point. Not trading Orton will turn out to be their downfall.

It's all pretty simple too. Tebow stinks up the field and they get their QB in 2012 and fans stop boring b/c they finally got to see what Tebow could do... If by some miracle he does well and is promising enough, you're a year further into building your team and can focus on the trenches finally. Don't play Tebow and the fans will always hold that against them. Cut or trade him and watch him have success like Hills and they will never live it down. I get they can't do that just yet, the Vets will give up... Tells me all I need to know about these vets. But anyhow, in three weeks when Orton leads us to an 0-4 record they can sell the change easily enough.

Drafting Tebow will become known as McD's revenge. The HAVE to play him or lose what's left of their fan base.

SoCalBronco
09-13-2011, 10:31 PM
Reports tonite say the players are sick of the controversy, and if I read it right, its really bothering Neckbeard, not that we didn't know that.

Why should we care whether its really bothering him?

I'm also not sure why we should care whether the players are "sick" of this controversy.

There's a way to stop people talking about an uncomfortable situation: Play better....or at least do something other than get physically manhandled at home by a division rival.

Is their mental focus that weak that they're upset about fans talking about the QB situation. Newsflash: After the CIN and TEN game, the schedule becomes absolutely brutal for a while. If they don't get better fast, their is going to be an absolute ****storm of criticism that will make this post-MNF discussion seem like a walk in the park.

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 10:33 PM
Drafting Tebow will become known as McD's revenge. The HAVE to play him or lose what's left of their fan base.

Seats I have heard were offered to fans that were on the list for only two and three years. 3 years ago that was at least a 10 year wait. You don't fix that by thumping your nose at the fans. I wonder how mnay people finished all of the games last year. BTW, fans were bailing out of SA Field by the 3rd quarter. Not much faith in this team to recover when faced with adversity.

How long before Elway and Co. See it themselves?

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 10:35 PM
Why should we care whether its really bothering him?

I'm also not sure why we should care whether the players are "sick" of this controversy.

There's a way to stop people talking about an uncomfortable situation: Play better....or at least do something other than get physically manhandled at home by a division rival.

Is their mental focus that weak that they're upset about fans talking about the QB situation. Newsflash: After the CIN and TEN game, the schedule becomes absolutely brutal for a while. If they don't get better fast, their is going to be an absolute ****storm of criticism that will make this post-MNF discussion seem like a walk in the park.

Yup!

baja
09-13-2011, 10:37 PM
Seats I have heard were offered to fans that were on the list for only two and three years. 3 years ago that was at least a 10 year wait. You don't fix that by thumping your nose at the fans. I wonder how mnay people finished all of the games last year. BTW, fans were bailing out of SA Field by the 3rd quarter. Not much faith in this team to recover when faced with adversity.

How long before Elway and Co. See it themselves?

Oh they see it they are just too steeped in the NFL ways to do anything constructive about it.

If McD were here you can bet Tebow would be starting and lighting it up.

With Tebow we win last night.

Taco John
09-13-2011, 10:41 PM
Good, it will lead to cutting or trading Tebow and then fans will really show Elway what its like to be booed at home. I don't envy EFXs position at all right now. Sorry ass team and your biggest fears as an organization will come true if you cater to the vets anymore than you already have. Cut or trade Tebow and they will end up with boo birds everywhere followed closely by empty seats all over SA Field. They're pretty much *****d at this point. Not trading Orton will turn out to be their downfall.

It's all pretty simple too. Tebow stinks up the field and they get their QB in 2012 and fans stop boring b/c they finally got to see what Tebow could do... If by some miracle he does well and is promising enough, you're a year further into building your team and can focus on the trenches finally. Don't play Tebow and the fans will always hold that against them. Cut or trade him and watch him have success like Hills and they will never live it down. I get they can't do that just yet, the Vets will give up... Tells me all I need to know about these vets. But anyhow, in three weeks when Orton leads us to an 0-4 record they can sell the change easily enough.

This is spot on and exactly the way I feel. I think at this point, the coaches and the front office are sinking in to the reality that Orton is a not-so-insignificant part of the reason why we only won 3 games last year, and the visions of grandeur that Orton can lead this team to a significant number of wins are delusional at best. But this is a people oriented game, and the front office has to give Orton every chance to succeed before they move on and finally move forward. This means four games at a minimum. And I would think the bar would be set pretty low - 2 wins in four games should allow Orton to keep his job. That puts us on pace for 8-8. 1 win in four games should cost him his job.

There is no way that this fan base is going to allow Orton to start all year though. That stadium will be empty by the end of October win or lose. We saw it on Prime Time television. Nobody wants to see Orton struggle when they can watch Tebow struggle.

SoCalBronco
09-13-2011, 10:48 PM
This is spot on and exactly the way I feel. I think at this point, the coaches and the front office are sinking in to the reality that Orton is a not-so-insignificant part of the reason why we only won 3 games last year, and the visions of grandeur that Orton can lead this team to a significant number of wins are delusional at best. But this is a people oriented game, and the front office has to give Orton every chance to succeed before they move on and finally move forward. This means four games at a minimum. And I would think the bar would be set pretty low - 2 wins in four games should allow Orton to keep his job. That puts us on pace for 8-8. 1 in four games should cost him his job - we can win 4 games with Tebow and give him the development he needs.

There is no way that this fan base is going to allow Orton to start all year though. That stadium will be empty by the end of October win or lose. We saw it on Prime Time television. Nobody wants to see Orton struggle when they can watch Tebow struggle.

Yep. The large majority of fans (except for the hardcores) simply aren't going to watch the product if its garbage AND boring at the same time. I think most of us knew from the outset that it was likely to be a rough year, but fans at least should be excited to watch the game, so after awhile, they HAVE to throw us a bone to at least make it exciting and relatively entertaining....if for no other reason than to keep our minds and eyes off the scoreboard.

The team has backed itself into a corner. There's no way out.

vonqkilla
09-13-2011, 10:49 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6967901/denver-broncos-players-peeved-quarterback-controversy-persists

DENVERDUI55
09-13-2011, 10:59 PM
Pretty simple solution. Play tebow if he struggles all year than sets up great draft position for franchise q. If he land out and shows promise great. That's solution.

baja
09-13-2011, 10:59 PM
Why should we care whether its really bothering him?

I'm also not sure why we should care whether the players are "sick" of this controversy.

There's a way to stop people talking about an uncomfortable situation: Play better....or at least do something other than get physically manhandled at home by a division rival.

Is their mental focus that weak that they're upset about fans talking about the QB situation. Newsflash: After the CIN and TEN game, the schedule becomes absolutely brutal for a while. If they don't get better fast, their is going to be an absolute ****storm of criticism that will make this post-MNF discussion seem like a walk in the park.

The Raiders have bigger stronger better players, hard to not be manhandled under those circumstances.

maher_tyler
09-13-2011, 11:01 PM
Tebow could get his start as soon as week 7.

SoCalBronco
09-13-2011, 11:03 PM
The Raiders have bigger stronger better players, hard to not be manhandled under those circumstances.

And who's fault was it when the team sat on its hands as bigger, stronger and better players signed elsewhere?

KO5K
09-13-2011, 11:03 PM
"I don't think anything is going to change with our depth chart," linebacker Joe Mays said via phone Tuesday. "I don't think that they're going to bring Tebow in. We just have to execute with what we have."

"Do you want Kyle to complete all those throws? Absolutely," said Broncos linebacker Mario Haggan. "Is he human? Yes he is. Is he going to make mistakes? Yes he is, and he did. So that's what we have to live with."

"Would it have been different? We don't know, he didn't play," said Haggan on whether Monday night's outcome would have been any different if Tebow had played. "Obviously (Tebow) is more of a runner than Kyle, but I think Kyle also did some things good last night. At this point coach Fox says Kyle is our starter and we're not going to stir up controversy until coach Fox says differently.

"If the coaches feel Tim Tebow is needed. They will use him. That is the same for any position and quarterback is no different."

Those quotes to me sound like people who want a change.

The two supporting Orton are Brandon Lloyd and Jason freakin' Hunter Hilarious!.

baja
09-13-2011, 11:11 PM
And who's fault was it when the team sat on its hands as bigger, stronger and better players signed elsewhere?

Shanahan mostly then McD

The Raiders built their team with top draft picks for several years running while Mike was busy signing busts and head cases and missing badly on draft picks. McD didn't help.

The badness of the current Broncos was a long time in building.

NUB
09-13-2011, 11:13 PM
Yep. The large majority of fans (except for the hardcores) simply aren't going to watch the product if its garbage AND boring at the same time. I think most of us knew from the outset that it was likely to be a rough year, but fans at least should be excited to watch the game, so after awhile, they HAVE to throw us a bone to at least make it exciting and relatively entertaining....if for no other reason than to keep our minds and eyes off the scoreboard.

The team has backed itself into a corner. There's no way out.

Orton has no future here.

Tebow may have a future here, he may not, but you don't find out with him sitting.

Starting Orton, on this POS team, is literally the worst decision possible.

We are wasting games from which we can gleam information for the future. The long-term health of the franchise is at stake and Denver is simply treading water at this point on a lost season. It's frustrating beyond belief and it's not even justified. That is truly the worst part. It's not like Orton is out there winning, being the big factor in all the games. He's flat pitiful out there, barely contributing and just moping along with however the wind blows. I simply do not understand where this clinging to Orton has come from. It is starting in with the media, too, who idiotically back Orton up as if Denver has something to lose by sitting him; or as if Orton has, you know, not played his way out of the starting role with his godawful W-L record.

Wanna know why this team is not exciting? Or why people say they are "bored"? It's because even on the rare occasion it plays well, for the past years, you know deep down that it will be fleeting. That it's just a blip. Another aberration before reality crashes back down the next week and literally nothing has changed from one game to the next. Want to know why the last three games of the past season were exciting? Because it opened the door to the future, just a little. Even in losing there was the idea that maybe, just maybe, there is improvement to be had. Actual potential. Then that door was slammed shut and we're back to square one with a guy whose potential was reached about three years ago.

/rant

SoCalBronco
09-13-2011, 11:14 PM
Shanahan mostly then McD

We've now completed three offseasons where Shanahan has had nothing to do with personnel decisions. The new CBA also eliminated any previously existing dead money.

Keep carrying water for the old man, though. Mike Klis would be proud of your post.

baja
09-13-2011, 11:17 PM
We've now completed three offseasons where Shanahan has had nothing to do with personnel decisions. The new CBA also eliminated any previously existing dead money.

Keep carrying water for the old man, though. Mike Klis would be proud of your post.

I was all over Bowlen long before you, you must have forgotten.

Dagmar
09-13-2011, 11:18 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6967901/denver-broncos-players-peeved-quarterback-controversy-persists

Mays and Haggan don't sound convincing at all. Hunter barely. Lloyds always seemed like a loyal and down to earth guy, but he's backing the wrong horse.

Dagmar
09-13-2011, 11:22 PM
Orton has no future here.

Tebow may have a future here, he may not, but you don't find out with him sitting.

Starting Orton, on this POS team, is literally the worst decision possible.

We are wasting games from which we can gleam information for the future. The long-term health of the franchise is at stake and Denver is simply treading water at this point on a lost season. It's frustrating beyond belief and it's not even justified. That is truly the worst part. It's not like Orton is out there winning, being the big factor in all the games. He's flat pitiful out there, barely contributing and just moping along with however the wind blows. I simply do not understand where this clinging to Orton has come from. It is starting in with the media, too, who idiotically back Orton up as if Denver has something to lose by sitting him; or as if Orton has, you know, not played his way out of the starting role with his godawful W-L record.

Wanna know why this team is not exciting? Or why people say they are "bored"? It's because even on the rare occasion it plays well, for the past years, you know deep down that it will be fleeting. That it's just a blip. Another aberration before reality crashes back down the next week and literally nothing has changed from one game to the next. Want to know why the last three games of the past season were exciting? Because it opened the door to the future, just a little. Even in losing there was the idea that maybe, just maybe, there is improvement to be had. Actual potential. Then that door was slammed shut and we're back to square one with a guy whose potential was reached about three years ago.

/rant

I expected this opinion after weeks 4 and 5, but had forgotton how inept Orton was. It's the overriding opinion on here now.

ZONA
09-13-2011, 11:30 PM
I don't get this whole "the vets will give up" if Tebow is in there. It's not like he's the 1st rookie or 2nd year QB to take over a team. And the vets on this team know down deep they are not going to win the superbowl anyway. They're professional athletes and many are getting paid very well so let the organization run the team they want to, play who they want to and just go do your job, play your best. Afterall, the vets were once young and raw too. They needed their shot, so what's wrong with giving Tebow his shot.

I still think Orton is the better passer but without much of a running game, this team needs to make things happen on broken plays and that includes Tebow doing his thing. You might not see teams blitzing all out with Tebow in there. They could get burned big time.

Br0nc0Buster
09-13-2011, 11:33 PM
Those quotes to me sound like people who want a change.

The two supporting Orton are Brandon Lloyd and Jason freakin' Hunter Hilarious!.

yeah not exactly a ringing endorsement for Orton

Houshyamama
09-13-2011, 11:58 PM
Mays and Haggan don't sound convincing at all. Hunter barely. Lloyds always seemed like a loyal and down to earth guy, but he's backing the wrong horse.

He's backing the horse he has the best chemistry with. This is a contract year for him.

HAT
09-14-2011, 12:13 AM
Tebow could get his start as soon as week 7.

Yup.

Denver HAS to be 2-3 (maybe even 3-2) at the bye for Orton to keep the starting gig. 1-4 or worse and Tebow becomes an easy sell for Fox over the bye week. Plus, it's still early enough to theoretically make a WC run if Tebow lights it up. (Not that I think it will happen after getting a look at the run D last night)

If Orton/Denver meet the minimum requirement, then it's still an ongoing tryout. Three of the next 4 are on the road and if Denver/Orton aren't at least 4-5 after that Tebow will start game 10 at home vs. the Jets. That still gives EFX a full 7 games to evaluate Tebow's play as a precursor to next year's draft direction.

If they are 4-5 or better then Orton gets at least 2 more. After that, It's all going to depend on how the playoff / WC race looks. Denver will likely have to be at least 6-6 AND be reasonably sure that 9-7 earns a berth in order for Orton to get the nod vs. Chicago.

Long story short:

Game 6 @ Miami, Game 10 vs. Jets & Game 13 vs. Bears are Tebow's most likely insertion points. (barring injury). That leaves 11, 7 or 4 games to evaluate.

The worst case scenario IMO would be for Denver to go 6-6 > 7-6 > 7-7 > 7-8 (eliminated) and then Tebow only getting a token week 16 nod.

Agamemnon
09-14-2011, 01:05 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6967901/denver-broncos-players-peeved-quarterback-controversy-persists

Lloyd really needs to shut the **** up. He isn't making the situation any better. He's just looking like a guy who's okay with losing as long as he's getting his stats. ****ing tool.

TailgateNut
09-14-2011, 03:06 AM
Drafting Tebow will become known as McD's revenge. The HAVE to play him or lose what's left of their fan base.

He did curse us with wonderboy and his cult like followers. Hopefully they all gether, fly to another continent and drink magic juice together. I'm sick of them all.

TailgateNut
09-14-2011, 03:08 AM
This is spot on and exactly the way I feel. I think at this point, the coaches and the front office are sinking in to the reality that Orton is a not-so-insignificant part of the reason why we only won 3 games last year, and the visions of grandeur that Orton can lead this team to a significant number of wins are delusional at best. But this is a people oriented game, and the front office has to give Orton every chance to succeed before they move on and finally move forward. This means four games at a minimum. And I would think the bar would be set pretty low - 2 wins in four games should allow Orton to keep his job. That puts us on pace for 8-8. 1 win in four games should cost him his job.

There is no way that this fan base is going to allow Orton to start all year though. That stadium will be empty by the end of October win or lose. We saw it on Prime Time television. Nobody wants to see Orton struggle when they can watch Tebow struggle.


:wave:

tsiguy96
09-14-2011, 04:04 AM
lloyd:

"That's the circumstances that we're in. That's the climate that we're in, and we knew we we're going to be in -- so be it. There's no being patient with Kyle. Kyle is ready to go. He didn't perform maybe as well as people expected him to. Whatever. He's our quarterback, and we're going to eventually win games," said Lloyd.

12 of the last 33 games? against who do you plan on eventually winning games against, and does someone plan to perform successfully in the red zone?

Ratboy
09-14-2011, 04:45 AM
Lloyd really needs to shut the **** up. He isn't making the situation any better. He's just looking like a guy who's okay with losing as long as he's getting his stats. ****ing tool.

Never thought I would agree with Skip Bayless.

WolfpackGuy
09-14-2011, 06:25 AM
Who gives a **** what the vets think?

A lot of them will be gone within a couple years anyway, and not many of those will be missed.

I never liked Bore-ton going back to his college days, and when even hardcore Teboz haters like myself say he needs to play, that should be a sign.

Put his ass in already!

Jesterhole
09-14-2011, 06:28 AM
The sad truth is that the best thing that could happen to this team is Orton getting hurt and Tebow going in. The fans get what they want, and the front office don't have to look like they are caving.

Pretty much what happened at the end of last year, and after three games, this board seemed convinced that Tebow was a better option, faults and all, than Kyle.

EmpireOrange
09-14-2011, 06:53 AM
Reports tonite say the players are sick of the controversy, and if I read it right, its really bothering Neckbeard, not that we didn't know that.

I got to say that I have no sympothy for the players point of view right now. If they are sick of it, stop losing, period! Loyd said as much yesterday on the radio. If Orton thier guy, quite getting cornholed at home by the Oakland Raiders.

Gort
09-14-2011, 07:10 AM
Reports tonite say the players are sick of the controversy, and if I read it right, its really bothering Neckbeard, not that we didn't know that.

if Orton wants the controversy to go away, he needs to stop sucking when the game is still in doubt. so what if he put up 300 yards eventually? most of that was in garbage time. people who don't follow the Broncos don't see this, but we've had 2+ years of it and we now know why Chicago couldn't get rid of Orton fast enough. he's absent when he's most needed. proof in point, look at our first half drives against Oakland. keep in mind, this ineptitude led to a 16-3 halftime lead for Oakland.

time qtr length start plays yards result
15:00 1 04:00 DEN 20 6 34 Punt
10:50 1 00:55 DEN 15 4 5 Field Goal
05:48 1 02:37 DEN 20 4 18 Punt
13:28 2 00:00 DEN 20 1 3 Fumble
11:14 2 02:54 DEN 20 6 13 Punt
06:27 2 02:15 DEN 28 7 34 Missed FG
01:27 2 01:03 DEN 20 6 33 Intercepted Pass

Gort
09-14-2011, 07:17 AM
He did curse us with wonderboy and his cult like followers. Hopefully they all gether, fly to another continent and drink magic juice together. I'm sick of them all.

you've really backed yourself into a corner. what if Tebow comes in and wins his first 5 or 6 games after Orton has lost all of his starts? then, you're gonna be "that guy" on the forum who is applauding every Broncos mistake and unable to enjoy any victory by the team... and it's all because you decided to go "all in" with your Tebow hate. i'm going to laugh at you when that happens. probably laugh out loud. i might even roll on the floor and laugh out loud.

gunns
09-14-2011, 12:59 PM
We've now completed three offseasons where Shanahan has had nothing to do with personnel decisions. The new CBA also eliminated any previously existing dead money.

Keep carrying water for the old man, though. Mike Klis would be proud of your post.

And we've still got the same mediocre team we've had for years. Doesn't matter at which point someone did it, just that they did. And Shanahan did.

gunns
09-14-2011, 01:01 PM
you've really backed yourself into a corner. what if Tebow comes in and wins his first 5 or 6 games after Orton has lost all of his starts? then, you're gonna be "that guy" on the forum who is applauding every Broncos mistake and unable to enjoy any victory by the team... and it's all because you decided to go "all in" with your Tebow hate. i'm going to laugh at you when that happens. probably laugh out loud. i might even roll on the floor and laugh out loud.

I'd love for Tebow to start. Lose one way, lose another. I sincerely doubt you will be laughing at anyone, but at least you'll enjoy the losses.

Peoples Champ
09-14-2011, 01:04 PM
agreed, if it aint broke dont fix it. If its broke then FIX IT.

TheReverend
09-14-2011, 01:04 PM
Why should we care whether its really bothering him?

I'm also not sure why we should care whether the players are "sick" of this controversy.

There's a way to stop people talking about an uncomfortable situation: Play better....or at least do something other than get physically manhandled at home by a division rival.

Is their mental focus that weak that they're upset about fans talking about the QB situation. Newsflash: After the CIN and TEN game, the schedule becomes absolutely brutal for a while. If they don't get better fast, their is going to be an absolute ****storm of criticism that will make this post-MNF discussion seem like a walk in the park.

THAT THAT THAT THAT THAT

It's no coincidence that pussies that got their asses kicked around on national television are the same type that are going to sit around with their feelings hurt over the people that pay them to suck getting sick of them being such a bunch of ****ing queers.

A bunch of broncocalijohns all of them.

Gort
09-14-2011, 01:06 PM
I'd love for Tebow to start. Lose one way, lose another. I sincerely doubt you will be laughing at anyone, but at least you'll enjoy the losses.

my comments were aimed at TGN who really has backed himself into a corner. if Tebow is the starter and Tebow is winning, TGN will not be able to enjoy it because he's too invested in hating Tebow.

TheReverend
09-14-2011, 01:09 PM
We've now completed three offseasons where Shanahan has had nothing to do with personnel decisions. The new CBA also eliminated any previously existing dead money.

Keep carrying water for the old man, though. Mike Klis would be proud of your post.

3 seasons where the NFL sees an average turnover rate of over 30%... and that's dramatically higher through regime changes.

So through TWO regime changes you could expect well over 100% turnover rate over a 3 year span...

...yet ALL of our best players are still Shanahan guys?!?! Weird. What a personnel disaster he was, huh?

epicSocialism4tw
09-14-2011, 01:33 PM
Good, it will lead to cutting or trading Tebow and then fans will really show Elway what its like to be booed at home. I don't envy EFXs position at all right now. Sorry ass team and your biggest fears as an organization will come true if you cater to the vets anymore than you already have. Cut or trade Tebow and they will end up with boo birds everywhere followed closely by empty seats all over SA Field. They're pretty much *****d at this point. Not trading Orton will turn out to be their downfall.

It's all pretty simple too. Tebow stinks up the field and they get their QB in 2012 and fans stop boring b/c they finally got to see what Tebow could do... If by some miracle he does well and is promising enough, you're a year further into building your team and can focus on the trenches finally. Don't play Tebow and the fans will always hold that against them. Cut or trade him and watch him have success like Hills and they will never live it down. I get they can't do that just yet, the Vets will give up... Tells me all I need to know about these vets. But anyhow, in three weeks when Orton leads us to an 0-4 record they can sell the change easily enough.

If the Broncos start out this season poorly, the groaning will get so loud from Broncos fans that EFX will have to do something about it.

The Broncos front office know that winning is the only thing that will change that. They need to shut up and win already. Quit telling fans what they should do, and just win a dang game. Quit whining about fans who want change because they want to see a player fight for the orange and blue, and win a dang game.

jhns
09-14-2011, 01:38 PM
Reports tonite say the players are sick of the controversy, and if I read it right, its really bothering Neckbeard, not that we didn't know that.

No one cares what the players think. They are paid millions to play a game. I hope it does bother Orton. We will show him that he isn't the only ond that doesn't care what others think. He hasn't exactly tried to play nice with the fans...

Kaylore
09-14-2011, 01:43 PM
Good, it will lead to cutting or trading Tebow and then fans will really show Elway what its like to be booed at home. I don't envy EFXs position at all right now. Sorry ass team and your biggest fears as an organization will come true if you cater to the vets anymore than you already have. Cut or trade Tebow and they will end up with boo birds everywhere followed closely by empty seats all over SA Field. They're pretty much *****d at this point. Not trading Orton will turn out to be their downfall.

It's all pretty simple too. Tebow stinks up the field and they get their QB in 2012 and fans stop boring b/c they finally got to see what Tebow could do... If by some miracle he does well and is promising enough, you're a year further into building your team and can focus on the trenches finally. Don't play Tebow and the fans will always hold that against them. Cut or trade him and watch him have success like Hills and they will never live it down. I get they can't do that just yet, the Vets will give up... Tells me all I need to know about these vets. But anyhow, in three weeks when Orton leads us to an 0-4 record they can sell the change easily enough.
Great post, Oskie. This is pretty much the situation. You can lose the fans or lose the locker room. If I'm a coach, I choose to loose the fans and hope the team respects me and rally's around my confidence in the players. If you cave to fan pressure then you risk alienating your whole team against you.

The one thing they can do is play Tebow if they keep losing. George Karl will plays guys when the team sucks just for the sake of chemistry and he'll say it to any reporter. I think in his being candid about the situation with players and the media allows him to do it without losing the team and it keeps the media from harassing him.

If they continue to lose game due to critical errors by Orton, then you risk integrity by not benching someone for performance. The only answer for them is to play Orton and let him play himself out of the position and hope Tebow has improved enough by then to not be a disaster.

Kaylore
09-14-2011, 01:51 PM
3 seasons where the NFL sees an average turnover rate of over 30%... and that's dramatically higher through regime changes.

So through TWO regime changes you could expect well over 100% turnover rate over a 3 year span...

Ehhhhh this is fallacious reasoning. It probably stretches to 40%, but that turnover is most prevalent on the bottom end of the talent pool, where the backups turnover perennially. It's not like every three years teams are completely replaced. Obviously the players that are really talented and were good enough to start for Shanahan are good enough to start for other teams for the most part. So of course they stay. But what about Manuel, Engleberger, Winborn, Koutovides, et al? Are they even in the league anymore? Shanahan sucked as a GM. Drafted bad and wasted money in free agency. In trades he was ninja, though.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-14-2011, 01:54 PM
Oh they see it they are just too steeped in the NFL ways to do anything constructive about it.

If McD were here you can bet Tebow would be starting and lighting it up.

With Tebow we win last night.

With thirty yards rushing from the RBs? Yeah, no.

jhns
09-14-2011, 01:57 PM
With thirty yards rushing from the RBs? Yeah, no.

He was more productive than Orton when he played them last season. You want to know what the RBs did in that game? 25 carries for 28 yards.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-14-2011, 01:59 PM
He was more productive than Orton when he played them last season. You want to know what the RBs did in that game? 25 carries for 28 yards.

Neat. We're talking about Monday's game.

Our running game couldn't drive a Toyota 80 yards.

jhns
09-14-2011, 02:00 PM
Neat. We're talking about Monday's game.

Our running game couldn't drive a Toyota 80 yards.

He didn't have a run game before but now no run game will be what holds him back? Brilliant!

TheReverend
09-14-2011, 02:03 PM
Great post, Oskie. This is pretty much the situation. You can lose the fans or lose the locker room. If I'm a coach, I choose to loose the fans and hope the team respects me and rally's around my confidence in the players. If you cave to fan pressure then you risk alienating your whole team against you.

The one thing they can do is play Tebow if they keep losing. George Karl will plays guys when the team sucks just for the sake of chemistry and he'll say it to any reporter. I think in his being candid about the situation with players and the media allows him to do it without losing the team and it keeps the media from harassing him.

If they continue to lose game due to critical errors by Orton, then you risk integrity by not benching someone for performance. The only answer for them is to play Orton and let him play himself out of the position and hope Tebow has improved enough by then to not be a disaster.

Personally I don't see many names on the roster I'd be concerned with "losing the respect of" and the few that I might probably don't have much, if any, attachment to Orton.

Ehhhhh this is fallacious reasoning. It probably stretches to 40%, but that turnover is most prevalent on the bottom end of the talent pool, where the backups turnover perennially. It's not like every three years teams are completely replaced. Obviously the players that are really talented and were good enough to start for Shanahan are good enough to start for other teams for the most part. So of course they stay. But what about Manuel, Engleberger, Winborn, Koutovides, et al? Are they even in the league anymore? Shanahan sucked as a GM. Drafted bad and wasted money in free agency. In trades he was ninja, though.

So we lose a Webster and replace it with Joe Mays. We lose Engleberger and spend a first round pick on Ayers. We lose Weigman for Walton. Hamilton for Beadles. And on and on and on. Ha!

No thanks, no care. 3 years later we have a significantly WORSE roster while the rest of the NFL has been taking strides forward, and quite frankly, the crappy holes we had on the team are both now more numerous and the pre-existing ones just replaced with more crap.

ol#7
09-14-2011, 02:04 PM
Lets see, when a D isnt afraid of your QB, it makes it darn tough to run!

ol#7
09-14-2011, 02:10 PM
Personally I don't see many names on the roster I'd be concerned with "losing the respect of" and the few that I might probably don't have much, if any, attachment to Orton.



So we lose a Webster and replace it with Joe Mays. We lose Engleberger and spend a first round pick on Ayers. We lose Weigman for Walton. Hamilton for Beadles. And on and on and on. Ha!

No thanks, no care. 3 years later we have a significantly WORSE roster while the rest of the NFL has been taking strides forward, and quite frankly, the crappy holes we had on the team are both now more numerous and the pre-existing ones just replaced with more crap.

Unfortunately, this is spot on. Even the biggest homer on these boards cant look at any spot on this team and say we are better now than we were 3 years ago. Were less talented now, and the decent holdovers are just 3 years older. This is how franchises go into Detroit Lions mode. I still am not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and the only way we are close to being on track is if by some miracle mchoodie got one thing right and uncovered our future franchise qb.

broncswin
09-14-2011, 02:15 PM
Why should we care whether its really bothering him?

I'm also not sure why we should care whether the players are "sick" of this controversy.

There's a way to stop people talking about an uncomfortable situation: Play better....or at least do something other than get physically manhandled at home by a division rival.

Is their mental focus that weak that they're upset about fans talking about the QB situation. Newsflash: After the CIN and TEN game, the schedule becomes absolutely brutal for a while. If they don't get better fast, their is going to be an absolute ****storm of criticism that will make this post-MNF discussion seem like a walk in the park.




Screw the players if they get pissed about all the Tebow talk...if it f***ing bothers them, then apparently they don't give a shiat about losing all the damn time.....I don't even remember the last time we won a game with Orton at QB........................F.....K!!

troya900
09-14-2011, 02:24 PM
Great post, Oskie. This is pretty much the situation. You can lose the fans or lose the locker room. If I'm a coach, I choose to loose the fans and hope the team respects me and rally's around my confidence in the players. If you cave to fan pressure then you risk alienating your whole team against you.

The one thing they can do is play Tebow if they keep losing. George Karl will plays guys when the team sucks just for the sake of chemistry and he'll say it to any reporter. I think in his being candid about the situation with players and the media allows him to do it without losing the team and it keeps the media from harassing him.

If they continue to lose game due to critical errors by Orton, then you risk integrity by not benching someone for performance. The only answer for them is to play Orton and let him play himself out of the position and hope Tebow has improved enough by then to not be a disaster.

I just laugh at this take. OH NOES!!! A bunch of loser scrubs might get mad at the coach if Tebow comes in. If these POS losers in the lockerroom are so concerned about the AbOrton/Tebow situation then while AbOrton is in there go out and F'ING win a damn game and make AbOrton's glaring issues meaningless by picking up his slack.

Kaylore
09-14-2011, 02:29 PM
No thanks, no care. 3 years later we have a significantly WORSE roster while the rest of the NFL has been taking strides forward, and quite frankly, the crappy holes we had on the team are both now more numerous and the pre-existing ones just replaced with more crap.

Yeah McDaniels was a step backwards in most of his moves. There were some (Decker, Dawkins, Tebow) that either have panned out or many end up being hits, but by and large it worsened a bad situation. I still think firing Mike was the best thing for him and the franchise. He's taken a year off and will get the recognition he deserves. Imagine if he's the one that makes Grossman live up to his potential and makes the playoffs after two years. On the east coast for the NFC East he'll walk into the HOF.

For us, hiring McD was a mistake and we have to pay the price now.

TheReverend
09-14-2011, 03:01 PM
Yeah McDaniels was a step backwards in most of his moves. There were some (Decker, Dawkins, Tebow) that either have panned out or many end up being hits, but by and large it worsened a bad situation. I still think firing Mike was the best thing for him and the franchise. He's taken a year off and will get the recognition he deserves. Imagine if he's the one that makes Grossman live up to his potential and makes the playoffs after two years. On the east coast for the NFC East he'll walk into the HOF.

For us, hiring McD was a mistake and we have to pay the price now.

Very little of this do I disagree with. Probably the only thing I'd argue are semantics over the term "bad situation" (because I think we were in a great situation), and "best thing for the franchise". A raise, a job in Washington with an owner who will spend money was clearly in Shanahan's best interest, but definitely not in Denver's.

baja
09-14-2011, 04:51 PM
THAT THAT THAT THAT THAT

It's no coincidence that pussies that got their asses kicked around on national television are the same type that are going to sit around with their feelings hurt over the people that pay them to suck getting sick of them being such a bunch of ****ing queers.

A bunch of . Now get back to hating all of them.

Hey you have a new object of hate, I feel slighted. I remind you who got you eliminated from Survivor. Now get back to hating your true #1 adversary you punk.

barryr
09-14-2011, 08:18 PM
I have given Orton all of the benefit of the doubt since he has been on the team, but I have no faith in him. I never feel like when the game is on the line, he can make the big play needed. He just does not move well enough or have the big-time arm to make tight throws when needed and worse, I don't think he makes quick enough reads so when the play breaks down, he can quickly spot the open guy. He gets sacked so often in that case holding onto the ball and not ready to make a decision before it is too late. I just don't see this team ever doing much with him at QB and I wish that wasn't the case since I have no problems with him as a person or anything like that. But he isn't a starting QB for a winning team IMO unless he has a stud OL, RB, and defense, which the Broncos don't have those either.

Rohirrim
09-14-2011, 10:10 PM
We lost to the Raiders. At home. Again. I'm not rational.

broncswin
09-15-2011, 01:57 PM
We lost to the Raiders. At home. Again. I'm not rational.

I love this post...I want to make this into a bumper sticker.....this is how we all feel!! :thumbs:

Kaylore
09-15-2011, 02:42 PM
We lost to the Raiders. At home. Again. I'm not rational.

Yeah this.

gunns
09-15-2011, 02:44 PM
my comments were aimed at TGN who really has backed himself into a corner. if Tebow is the starter and Tebow is winning, TGN will not be able to enjoy it because he's too invested in hating Tebow.

And this was my point.....if

I don't know how any fan thought any of these QB's were going to do ANYthing this year for this team. But we can all hope that Tebow starts so you guys can at least enjoy those losses.

gunns
09-15-2011, 02:47 PM
I have given Orton all of the benefit of the doubt since he has been on the team, but I have no faith in him. I never feel like when the game is on the line, he can make the big play needed. He just does not move well enough or have the big-time arm to make tight throws when needed and worse, I don't think he makes quick enough reads so when the play breaks down, he can quickly spot the open guy. He gets sacked so often in that case holding onto the ball and not ready to make a decision before it is too late. I just don't see this team ever doing much with him at QB and I wish that wasn't the case since I have no problems with him as a person or anything like that. But he isn't a starting QB for a winning team IMO unless he has a stud OL, RB, and defense, which the Broncos don't have those either.

The guy couldn't make a TD from the red zone if his life depended on it. Tebow could.....but he's got to get there first. The OL has played badly but I think they are blamed too often for any of the QB's play. Sometimes it just comes down to poor execution by the QB.

Mile High Mojoe
09-15-2011, 02:48 PM
I would rather watch Tebow fail at trying to succeed than Orton succeed at trying not to fail.

I know that is a bit lopsided and backwards from being a homer but from a fan excitement standpoint I'd at least be willing to watch a whole game because of the randomness of the outcome rather than the certainty of an impossible come from behind defeat.

'nuff said

What a short smart and to the point post that just nails it. It's exactly how I feel thank you.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:49 PM
Pretty simple solution. Play tebow if he struggles all year than sets up great draft position for franchise q. If he land out and shows promise great. That's solution.

Your reasoning skills far exceed your grasp of English grammar

:thumbs:

TailgateNut
09-15-2011, 02:49 PM
my comments were aimed at TGN who really has backed himself into a corner. if Tebow is the starter and Tebow is winning, TGN will not be able to enjoy it because he's too invested in hating Tebow.


...and I couldn't stand the "bloodline hype" about Griese. How did that work out. What-****ing-ever. I've been through bad times and good and nothing backs me into a corner. If TimBoy ever becomes an NFL caliber QB for the Broncos, good for him and the Broncos, if he doesn't we've shot our wad on another ****ing loser. Nothing new.

tnedator
09-15-2011, 02:54 PM
Link? Where did you get this info?

Someone posted that Rick Reilly was saying that on one of the Denver radio stations.