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View Full Version : Hey Elway/Bowlen/Xanders: F Off! I am done


Que
09-13-2011, 02:29 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.

mkporter
09-13-2011, 02:38 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.


Just so we're clear, you gave a new coach and executive one game, after having no off season, before you bailed? And you bailed over a 3 point loss? Enjoy fishing, you clearly have the patience for it.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-13-2011, 02:39 PM
http://www.urineremover.net/caturine.jpg
http://worldofwardcrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/vader_no.jpg

OBF1
09-13-2011, 02:42 PM
Just so we're clear, you gave a new coach and executive one game, after having no off season, before you bailed? And you bailed over a 3 point loss? Enjoy fishing, you clearly have the patience for it.

I have a question for you MK.

You make mention that there was no "Off season". But all teams had no offseason... How do you explain Buffalo, Tom Brady and Cam Newton???

That One Guy
09-13-2011, 02:43 PM
Just so we're clear, you gave a new coach and executive one game, after having no off season, before you bailed? And you bailed over a 3 point loss? Enjoy fishing, you clearly have the patience for it.

If a 3 point loss is how you viewed that game, you missed something.

Rigs11
09-13-2011, 02:44 PM
one game to rule them all

bendog
09-13-2011, 02:45 PM
He missed the Saban era and before. LOL I admit I only came aboard with cool lou.

Que
09-13-2011, 02:45 PM
Just so we're clear, you gave a new coach and executive one game, after having no off season, before you bailed? And you bailed over a 3 point loss? Enjoy fishing, you clearly have the patience for it.

I left Fox out of it except questioning the intelligence of hiring him. Bowlen and Xanders - given them way too many seasons. Elway? He should know better.

The product is garbage, had been for years and given the course they are on is only going to stink worse. So ya, I am done contributing $ to it.

Lates

peacepipe
09-13-2011, 02:49 PM
I left Fox out of it except questioning the intelligence of hiring him. Bowlen and Xanders - given them way too many seasons. Elway? He should know better.

The product is garbage, had been for years and given the course they are on is only going to stink worse. So ya, I am done contributing $ to it.

LatesI hope you post a better thread next week.

mkporter
09-13-2011, 02:50 PM
I have a question for you MK.

You make mention that there was no "Off season". But all teams had no offseason... How do you explain Buffalo, Tom Brady and Cam Newton???

The point is that giving a new coaching staff a little more rope might be worthwhile. Did you miss that?

Why pick the HOF Coach/QB combo to make your point? If anyone was going to benefit from the lockout, it was those guys. Also, Buffalo played the Chiefs, and Cam Newton lost.

Que
09-13-2011, 02:52 PM
I hope you post a better thread next week.

If I do it would be the most tasty crow I have ever consumed...

I reality I will post some pics if I catch anythig pic worthy

mkporter
09-13-2011, 02:54 PM
If a 3 point loss is how you viewed that game, you missed something.

Oh, it was an ugly three point loss, for sure, but hardly worth giving up on the season for.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 02:55 PM
In b4 cannibalism

mkporter
09-13-2011, 02:58 PM
In b4 cannibalism


29175
Just barely...

Goobzilla
09-13-2011, 02:58 PM
I feel your pain. I really do. It's a poor product that they are trying to force on us and tell us it's really not that bad. There is a financial and emotional investment that many fans including myself don't feel we're getting a return on.

KevinJames
09-13-2011, 02:59 PM
good riddens

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.

A glance at your avy... and I'm afraid I have to call BS on the bolded sentence. Or rather "if you'll buy that, I'll throw the Golden Gate in free" (to quote a George Strait song).

Smiling Assassin27
09-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.


May as well make it a clean break...beat it, pansy. Somebody give this guy a shot of man the f** up.


Sincerely,

John Elway


p.s. Please accept this Washington Redskins tumbler as a token of our indifference.

OBF1
09-13-2011, 03:01 PM
The point is that giving a new coaching staff a little more rope might be worthwhile. Did you miss that?

Why pick the HOF Coach/QB combo to make your point? If anyone was going to benefit from the lockout, it was those guys. Also, Buffalo played the Chiefs, and Cam Newton lost.

A freeking rookie QB with ZERO offseason out performed kyle freekin orton who is an experienced NFL qb in his 8th season and 3rd overall in denver.

Remember dude, you were the one that used NO OFFSESON as an excuse.


PS: If you did not notice Denver/Orton lost just like Can Newton did, but Cam Newton put up numbers in his first ever NFL game that kyle orton has never come close to.

mkporter
09-13-2011, 03:02 PM
good riddens

redicules.

Smiling Assassin27
09-13-2011, 03:06 PM
redicules.

definately

mkporter
09-13-2011, 03:12 PM
A freeking rookie QB with ZERO offseason out performed kyle freekin orton who is an experienced NFL qb in his 8th season and 3rd overall in denver.

Remember dude, you were the one that used NO OFFSESON as an excuse.


PS: If you did not notice Denver/Orton lost just like Can Newton did, but Cam Newton put up numbers in his first ever NFL game that kyle orton has never come close to.

I'm not making an excuse for anyone's poor play, I'm pointing out that a new coaching staff deserves a little patience. The fact that there was no offseason is relevant for teams that had significant changes. I'm really happy that Cam Newton threw for so many yards, but that doesn't really change my point. Orton sucked, and I want Tebow to start, but I'm still going to watch the rest of the season, and I'm still traveling out to see us play the Chargers in October.

Smiling Assassin27
09-13-2011, 03:14 PM
I'm not making an excuse for anyone's poor play, I'm pointing out that a new coaching staff deserves a little patience. The fact that there was no offseason is relevant for teams that had significant changes. I'm really happy that Cam Newton threw for so many yards, but that doesn't really change my point. Orton sucked, and I want Tebow to start, but I'm still going to watch the rest of the season, and I'm still traveling out to see us play the Chargers in October.


pssst. hey man, need tickets? :devil:

Que
09-13-2011, 03:15 PM
A glance at your avy... and I'm afraid I have to call BS on the bolded sentence. Or rather "if you'll buy that, I'll throw the Golden Gate in free" (to quote a George Strait song).

I saw the same preseason game you did. I would give Quinn a try because at least that is doing something that can help this franchise out. I'll take that over John Elway feeding us consumers the same sh*tsandwich and calling it a burger while crowing about how he is going to reengage the fan base. Ummm John, psst, you're doing it wrong. Or worse - Bowlen and Joe "Wormtongue" Ellis are using you.

Que
09-13-2011, 03:16 PM
definately

Your so right

broncocalijohn
09-13-2011, 03:19 PM
Your so right

You can always resign with us later if you want to come back.

Smiling Assassin27
09-13-2011, 03:21 PM
Buck up. We won't loose this next game. We're better then the Bungholes.

Swedish Extrovert
09-13-2011, 03:24 PM
Just so we're clear, you gave a new coach and executive one game, after having no off season, before you bailed? And you bailed over a 3 point loss? Enjoy fishing, you clearly have the patience for it.

LOL

BroncoBuff
09-13-2011, 03:25 PM
Week 17 is gonna be interesting ... if we're in the Luck-running, let's hope Taco John changes our background from orange to red. Even for just one week.

Orton is 100 PERCENT the wrong QB here ... Orton is a guy you go with when you have some players, some stability, kind of like a Trent Dilfer+2001 Ravens situation.

With new management, new coaching staff, 3 rookie starters and numerous free agents, Kyle Orton is a pointless waste, even a detrimental influence. He adds ZERO to the rebuilding effort, and will win just enough games to screw us out of Luck and land us another Ayers or Moreno at pick 8 or 10.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 03:25 PM
I saw the same preseason game you did. I would give Quinn a try because at least that is doing something that can help this franchise out. I'll take that over John Elway feeding us consumers the same sh*tsandwich and calling it a burger while crowing about how he is going to reengage the fan base. Ummm John, psst, you're doing it wrong. Or worse - Bowlen and Joe "Wormtongue" Ellis are using you.

Point is... if your avatar is any indication at all... it would certainly appear that you're emotionally invested in Tebow starting and Quinn instead would only work for you if the team won with Quinn under center.

Sir_Robin
09-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.

I hope you stick with it and I wish more people would join you. I've not handed over any $ for a couple of years now. I was close to throwing in again after those three entertaining games last year - glad I waited to see if the team was serious about change.

Dagmar
09-13-2011, 03:36 PM
Instead of a message board post why don't you email the Broncos PR? Fat lot of good posting it here will do.

Agamemnon
09-13-2011, 03:36 PM
I certainly wouldn't pay to go to see this team play if I had season tickets. I'll say that much. Any team that starts Orton over a young, promising QB to save some money isn't a team I'm going to waste my time or money. Truthfully I'd need to be paid to go watch Orton **** up live, not the other way around. There's no power button that can turn it off when you're actually there...

Agamemnon
09-13-2011, 03:37 PM
Instead of a message board post why don't you email the Broncos PR? Fat lot of good posting it here will do.

At least here someone will actually read it...

Agamemnon
09-13-2011, 03:39 PM
Point is... if your avatar is any indication at all... it would certainly appear that you're emotionally invested in Tebow starting and Quinn instead would only work for you if the team won with Quinn under center.

Why wouldn't any Broncos fan be emotionally invested in Tebow starting at this point? I just don't get it. Orton is garbage, and Quinn **** the bed the last game of preseason so there isn't much to be excited about there.

Taco John
09-13-2011, 03:39 PM
I can understand the frustration, and hitting them in the pocket book is the only place you can hit them... But I think you've got to give Elway and Co credit. They inherited a mess that Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis made - and it is a serious mess. They owe it to the team they're coaching to give Kyle Orton a chance to win. Whether we like it or not, this team has been behind, and is currently behind Orton. If September ends, and we are still looking for a win, then I'll think that's when they'll owe it to the fans to make a move.

I don't blame anyone for stopping spending their money on the Broncos right now. But you have to give the new regime a chance to get this thing jump started.

Que
09-13-2011, 03:40 PM
Point is... if your avatar is any indication at all... it would certainly appear that you're emotionally invested in Tebow starting and Quinn instead would only work for you if the team won with Quinn under center.

Meh, I just built this avatar to replace my "Hubris" Josh McDaniels avatar when we finally ended the BigMistake. I liked the Quinn pick back when the Browns picked him and would love to see what he can do - especially after the game he had in the preseason. Big improvement from last year's PS. Would I prefer Tebow gets the first shot? Sure. But what I really want and what every football minded fan should want (and dare I say everyone in the front office should want) is whether at the end of the season we need to draft a QB. That's progress... This... This.... This is just mailing it in and banking that the good people of this state keep paying to see crap week after week after week.

mkporter
09-13-2011, 03:40 PM
I certainly wouldn't pay to go to see this team play if I had season tickets. I'll say that much. Any team that starts Orton over a young, promising QB to save some money isn't a team I'm going to waste my time or money. Truthfully I'd need to be paid to go watch Orton **** up live, not the other way around. There's no power button that can turn it off when you're actually there...

Yet, here you are...

Agamemnon
09-13-2011, 03:41 PM
I can understand the frustration, and hitting them in the pocket book is the only place you can hit them... But I think you've got to give Elway and Co credit. They inherited a mess that Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis made - and it is a serious mess. They owe it to the team they're coaching to give Kyle Orton a chance to win. Whether we like it or not, this team has been behind, and is currently behind Orton. If September ends, and we are still looking for a win, then I'll think that's when they'll owe it to the fans to make a move.

I don't blame anyone for stopping spending their money on the Broncos right now. But you have to give the new regime a chance to get this thing jump started.

**** this team if they are behind the **** stain maned Orton. **** them. Period.

Agamemnon
09-13-2011, 03:41 PM
Yet, here you are...

I meant in terms of actually going to the game. Thought that was pretty clear. Guess I need to spell everything out for the morons...

Que
09-13-2011, 03:43 PM
Instead of a message board post why don't you email the Broncos PR? Fat lot of good posting it here will do.

Oh I did that too. Sent a personal letter to Elway without as many explicatives though... He still is John Elway - a guy I once went on record saying that if he needed my kidney I would give him one, two if he autographed the scar.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 03:44 PM
Why wouldn't any Broncos fan be emotionally invested in Tebow starting at this point? I just don't get it. Orton is garbage, and Quinn **** the bed the last game of preseason so there isn't much to be excited about there.

I'm not at all emotionally invested in Tebow starting, especially not "at this point". He's not ready and if you think the media is brutal to him now... the criticism would increase exponentially if he were starting. Because he would struggle... and every wrong move would be "topic #1" discussed on every sports show that week.

BroncoBuff
09-13-2011, 03:45 PM
EXACTLY, give them a chance ... Miller, Moore and Franklin look great so far ... the only obviously weird move they made was pulling Orton off the trading block and demoting Tebow. But we don't know all the facts, might've been an off-field problem.

DHallblows
09-13-2011, 03:46 PM
I meant in terms of actually going to the game. Thought that was pretty clear. Guess I need to spell everything out for the morons...

"Any team that starts Orton over a young, promising QB to save some money isn't a team I'm going to waste my time or money."

Well hopefully when you spell it out for us morons, you'll use complete sentences...

Smiling Assassin27
09-13-2011, 03:47 PM
EXACTLY, give them a chance ... Miller, Moore and Franklin look great so far ... the only obviously weird move they made was pulling Orton off the trading block and demoting Tebow. But we don't know all the facts, might've been an off-field problem.

Franklin looks way overmatched to me. Still, the only way to get him used to the speed of the game is to get him used to the speed of the game.

Que
09-13-2011, 03:50 PM
EXACTLY, give them a chance ... Miller, Moore and Franklin look great so far ... the only obviously weird move they made was pulling Orton off the trading block and demoting Tebow. But we don't know all the facts, might've been an off-field problem.

Tebow having off-field problems is like alledging that Elmo has a meth habit.

And remember, I am the resident non-believer here.

broncocalijohn
09-13-2011, 03:53 PM
I'm not at all emotionally invested in Tebow starting, especially not "at this point". He's not ready and if you think the media is brutal to him now... the criticism would increase exponentially if he were starting. Because he would struggle... and every wrong move would be "topic #1" discussed on every sports show that week.

Probably so but here there would be every excuse because very few want to admit they are wrong.

Taco John
09-13-2011, 03:53 PM
**** this team if they are behind the **** stain maned Orton. **** them. Period.

I can't agree with that. These guys are football players. This is a football team. They're not fans, they're modern day gladiators. They've rallied around their veteran. I have no problem with this. I think time will make it apparent that something has to change, but I think they deserve a chance to try and make this work. I don't believe that panicking and putting in Tebow or even Quinn at this early stage in the season would be a benefit to our locker room, or the results on the field.

oubronco
09-13-2011, 03:58 PM
Man some of you people are funny LOL

You realize it's just a game.............Right?

broncosteven
09-13-2011, 04:00 PM
I stopped buying full price Bronco gear (outside of Floyd and Sharpe HOF items) when mCd was hired. I did buy a boat load of clearance stuff about 2 years ago but that it was like 80% off stuff.

Not sure if it is working yet...

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 04:01 PM
Probably so but here there would be every excuse because very few want to admit they are wrong.

True... unlike the Tebow fans here though... the media would give Tebow no quarter... and no excuses. They would minutely dissect every mistake he makes (and every young QB makes mistakes, so they'd have plenty of "fodder"). The coaches/FO are protecting Tebow by allowing Orton to take the media criticism instead.

oubronco
09-13-2011, 04:03 PM
Power to the people

http://rachaeldrummond.com/sites/rachaeldrummond.com/files/large_flo.jpg

mkporter
09-13-2011, 04:06 PM
I meant in terms of actually going to the game. Thought that was pretty clear. Guess I need to spell everything out for the morons...

Since I'm a moron, let me make sure I've got this down: It's a waste of time to go and cheer for your favorite(?) team, but incessantly bitching on the internet about them is not?

BroncoBuff
09-13-2011, 04:09 PM
Tebow having off-field problems is like alledging that Elmo has a meth habit.

No, of course not a drug problem, I mean maybe he's universally disliked or something, maybe he's abrasive. I've detected hints of that kind of thing ... seemed for awhile there he had no friends at all anywhere in the organization.

And remember, he and Josh got along really well ... that's another clue.

I don't believe anything on the practice field those first 3-4 days caused John to yank Orton off the trading block and kick Tebow to the curb. And remember, Orton and the O-line guys had some strange bad blood with Tebow in the off-season.

The truth is out there ....

theAPAOps5
09-13-2011, 04:11 PM
Understand the frustration. Been there and done that. Have to refocus what this really is. A game and pastime meant to be fun. Losing sucks but it sucks less when you don't take it so personally.

Just my opinion, but reframing has really helped me put in perspective what this is supposed to be.

Rolandftw
09-13-2011, 04:15 PM
Gawd, Tebow fans are emo.

Eldorado
09-13-2011, 04:18 PM
I meant in terms of actually going to the game. Thought that was pretty clear. Guess I need to spell everything out for the morons...

Whoa. This guy is making a run at TGN's Resident As$ hole title.

Popps
09-13-2011, 04:19 PM
Just so we're clear, you gave a new coach and executive one game, after having no off season, before you bailed? And you bailed over a 3 point loss? Enjoy fishing, you clearly have the patience for it.

Hilarious!

KO5K
09-13-2011, 04:22 PM
I'm not at all emotionally invested in Tebow starting, especially not "at this point". He's not ready and if you think the media is brutal to him now... the criticism would increase exponentially if he were starting. Because he would struggle... and every wrong move would be "topic #1" discussed on every sports show that week.

Just like they would've last year.

But for some reason they didn't, wonder why that was...

I don't remember one negative piece about Tebow between week 16 and the start of training camp.

McDman
09-13-2011, 04:23 PM
I know this game was was terrible but dear God people, it's been one game of the first year of this regime. They need at least four years.

I don't thin you understand the extent that McD killed this team. Yes, we could've gne and got FAs but I think they realized we weren't going to be good for years and didn't want to patch it with band aids. This is going to be a several year project where we build through the draft.

And to the OP, if you're bailing then don't come back in the futrue. We're fans through good and bad, not just good.

KO5K
09-13-2011, 04:26 PM
No, of course not a drug problem, I mean maybe he's universally disliked or something, maybe he's abrasive. I've detected hints of that kind of thing ... seemed for awhile there he had no friends at all anywhere in the organization.

It's difficult to prove one way or another.

I remember a video of Tebow, Decker and Thomas and they all seemed to be having a good laugh and getting on really well, granted this was pretty much straight after they'd been drafted.

On the other hand I could understand people getting annoyed with his whole rah rah thing. There was a bit in that mic'd up segment where Tebow went up to Kuper and was like 'yeah man, lets drive down this field and win this thing baby! You with me?!' and Kuper was like 'yeah, yeah, whatever'.

rbackfactory80
09-13-2011, 04:35 PM
Good for you Que. Do what makes you happy. I couldn't imagine being more bored than I was last night. It was opening f-ing day. Some sad stuff is going on out on the field.

I will hang around because I know I will get what I want. Tebow will be starting soon.

vbplaya
09-13-2011, 04:42 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.

This is the fair weather fan I have seen a lot of lately in Bronco land ... "I'm a fan so I know best ... lets get rid of this guy and throw in this other guy" ... year or two later ... "this guy sucks ... we need to get rid of him and throw in this other guy" ... rinse and repeat.

Lets not consider that the people who have done this for decades know what to do ... no ... you sitting in your lazy boy with one hand grasping a beer while your other hand cycles between scratching your balls and throwing nachos in your mouth knows how to create a winning franchise.

Stop the anger train ... I want to get off ...

Mark my words ... we throw in Tebow to bring back "fans" such as your caliber ... and a few years down the road you'll be bitching to get rid of him and pissed off at the administration for playing him.

vbplaya
09-13-2011, 04:47 PM
Understand the frustration. Been there and done that. Have to refocus what this really is. A game and pastime meant to be fun. Losing sucks but it sucks less when you don't take it so personally.

Just my opinion, but reframing has really helped me put in perspective what this is supposed to be.

^
One of the best posts on here ...

Its a spectator sport ... no reason to take it personal unless you're on the field ... which we are not and that is often forgotten.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 05:16 PM
Just like they would've last year.

But for some reason they didn't, wonder why that was...

I don't remember one negative piece about Tebow between week 16 and the start of training camp.

Back then, the sports analysts had "playoff scenarios" to discuss... now they're looking for something...anything... "controversial" to fill their air time. Even with no new "Tebow topics" to discuss, a significant amount of air time is still devoted to analyzing "what's wrong" with him (they're like sharks with the smell of blood in the water). If he were getting playing time... and had anything less than a perfect performance (a la Brady's Week One performance)... the media criticism would be far worse.

extralife
09-13-2011, 05:47 PM
And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow.


well, I believe you.

yerner
09-13-2011, 05:52 PM
Just so we're clear, you gave a new coach and executive one game, after having no off season, before you bailed? And you bailed over a 3 point loss? Enjoy fishing, you clearly have the patience for it.

this is a great post.

errand
09-13-2011, 05:53 PM
I meant in terms of actually going to the game. Thought that was pretty clear. Guess I need to spell everything out for the morons...

But if you're through with the team then be through with the team......

I understand you don't wanna waste your money why waste your breath what does it matter you don't like the team..then quit following it.

Bronx33
09-13-2011, 05:53 PM
We were one average QB away form beating the penalty infested raiders ( and they know it) pocket sloth doesn't drop that ball and who knows what would have happened and yet you bail?

Kaylore
09-13-2011, 05:58 PM
one game to rule them all
LOL

spdirty
09-13-2011, 05:58 PM
I find myself getting more and more apathetic when I watch bronco games anymore. Seems like nearly every game since 6-0 has a "same ****, different day" feel to it. I actually missed the KC away game last year, first game i missed in 10 years, and didn't give a damn. So yeah Que, you are not alone.

tebowisdabomb
09-13-2011, 05:58 PM
And the Raiders are a few less penalties away from absolutely dismantling the Donks again just like we did last year.

Your team can't stop the run and cannot run, Orton is not a bad QB, he is a very similar QB as Campbell, he is a game manager...Average or slightly below.

Bronx33
09-13-2011, 06:00 PM
And the Raiders are a few less penalties away from absolutely dismantling the Donks again just like we did last year.

Your team can't stop the run and cannot run, Orton is not a bad QB, he is a very similar QB as Campbell, he is a game manager...Average or slightly below.


This is where you lost all credibility.

tebowisdabomb
09-13-2011, 06:07 PM
This is where you lost all credibility.

So Orton is bad because he can't carry the weight of the whole damn team on his shoulders? Look man, this is the NFL, you have to run to pass first, If you can't run, the opposing team either drops people back in coverage or sends the house after the QB. Orton dropped the ball big effing deal, it was slick and anybody could have dropped it.

errand
09-13-2011, 06:07 PM
This is the fair weather fan I have seen a lot of lately in Bronco land ... "I'm a fan so I know best ... lets get rid of this guy and throw in this other guy" ... year or two later ... "this guy sucks ... we need to get rid of him and throw in this other guy" ... rinse and repeat.

Lets not consider that the people who have done this for decades know what to do ... no ... you sitting in your lazy boy with one hand grasping a beer while your other hand cycles between scratching your balls and throwing nachos in your mouth knows how to create a winning franchise.

Stop the anger train ... I want to get off ...

Mark my words ... we throw in Tebow to bring back "fans" such as your caliber ... and a few years down the road you'll be b****ing to get rid of him and pissed off at the administration for playing him.

Excellent post.........

errand
09-13-2011, 06:10 PM
We were one average QB away form beating the penalty infested raiders ( and they know it) pocket sloth doesn't drop that ball and who knows what would have happened and yet you bail?

Once again this is what happens to hero worshippers...

This is what happens when you have a favorite player instead of a favorite team

Bronx33
09-13-2011, 06:17 PM
So Orton is bad because he can't carry the weight of the whole damn team on his shoulders? Look man, this is the NFL, you have to run to pass first, If you can't run, the opposing team either drops people back in coverage or sends the house after the QB. Orton dropped the ball big effing deal, it was slick and anybody could have dropped it.


Orton cant carry the weight cause he stinks (he proved it) heck take the drop away he was inaccurate lacked timing ignored open receivers and flat out lacked any ability to avoid a pass rush ( i am mean completely lacked) the ball was slick bullshyt doesn't fly ( it simply changed the game) and all momentum (which was hard to come by)

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 06:24 PM
And the Raiders are a few less penalties away from absolutely dismantling the Donks again just like we did last year.

Your team can't stop the run and cannot run, Orton is not a bad QB, he is a very similar QB as Campbell, he is a game manager...Average or slightly below.

Unfortunately, McDaniels didn't leave the Broncos with many options. The "trading away of talent" would have been ok if he'd utilized the return (all the draft picks) wisely, but he didn't. He reached and still got crap. FA? Overpaid for still more crap (mostly over-the-hill former Patriots). It will take a couple of seasons to completely rectify the McDaniels blunders.

broncosteven
09-13-2011, 06:25 PM
So Orton is bad because he can't carry the weight of the whole damn team on his shoulders? Look man, this is the NFL, you have to run to pass first, If you can't run, the opposing team either drops people back in coverage or sends the house after the QB. Orton dropped the ball big effing deal, it was slick and anybody could have dropped it.

Unless you are the Patsy's and have Tom Brady to chuck it 500+ yards in a game.

In the past you had to run the ball, now you just have to have the threat of the run to keep teams honest.

We didn't have that last night and that allowed the butt-raiders to bring the house on Orton and the OL struggled.

broncosteven
09-13-2011, 06:27 PM
Unfortunately, McDaniels didn't leave the Broncos with many options. The "trading away of talent" would have been ok if he'd utilized the return (all the draft picks) wisely, but he didn't. He reached and still got crap. FA? Overpaid for still more crap (mostly over-the-hill former Patriots). It will take a couple of seasons to completely rectify the McDaniels blunders.

Yep he reached got crap then gave up on it a year later. The dude was only here about 18 months and yet he traded away his own 2nd round pick he traded up to get.

Glad that douche is gone. I just hope Fox turn it around. I saw a lot I liked last night over last year.

Steve Prefontaine
09-13-2011, 06:30 PM
Once again this is what happens to hero worshippers...

This is what happens when you have a favorite player instead of a favorite team

Hilarious! So anyone that thinks Orton sucks has to think Tebow is the answer.

This is what happens when you make poor assumptions.

Circle Orange
09-13-2011, 06:31 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.

Were you the one screaming for Tebow, up in the 66th row? http://scosoft.com/s/n/44748dea.gif

Bronx33
09-13-2011, 06:32 PM
Damn CO whats with the avatar?

Steve Prefontaine
09-13-2011, 06:37 PM
I can't agree with that. These guys are football players. This is a football team. They're not fans, they're modern day gladiators. They've rallied around their veteran. I have no problem with this. I think time will make it apparent that something has to change, but I think they deserve a chance to try and make this work. I don't believe that panicking and putting in Tebow or even Quinn at this early stage in the season would be a benefit to our locker room, or the results on the field.
First Adrian Peterson, now Taco.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 06:48 PM
Yep he reached got crap then gave up on it a year later. The dude was only here about 18 months and yet he traded away his own 2nd round pick he traded up to get.

Glad that douche is gone. I just hope Fox turn it around. I saw a lot I liked last night over last year.

When the news broke that he'd been fired, it was "happy-dance" time. But much of the damage he could possibly do was already done. Last night I saw mistakes, but a lot of encouraging signs as well. It appears, however, that some Broncos fans were expecting a complete and total 180-degree turn from last season by the first game (an expectation of going from 4-12 to 12-4). And that's just unrealistic. I'm happy with a modest improvement that (I believe) will continue to improve as the season progresses. From the perspective of 4-12, a return to the 7-9 wins area would look pretty good (at least to me).

Kaylore
09-13-2011, 06:49 PM
This is a funny thread. I sympathize with the OP. It's harder and harder to get excited about a lame thing. And it's worth less and less the time. There were games last year I remember not even wanting to watch anticipating the suck. I'll never mail it in on my team, but I understand why so many have walked away from the mediocrity. In this economy its hard to throw good money at things that you don't feel have the same value.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 06:50 PM
Damn CO whats with the avatar?

I'm wondering how Bob got her cell phone number...

db56
09-13-2011, 06:55 PM
When the news broke that he'd been fired, it was "happy-dance" time. But much of the damage he could possibly do was already done. Last night I saw mistakes, but a lot of encouraging signs as well. It appears, however, that some Broncos fans were expecting a complete and total 180-degree turn from last season by the first game (an expectation of going from 4-12 to 12-4). And that's just unrealistic. I'm happy with a modest improvement that (I believe) will continue to improve as the season progresses. From the perspective of 4-12, a return to the 7-9 wins area would look pretty good (at least to me).

+1 signed and repped!

Bronx33
09-13-2011, 06:56 PM
This is a funny thread. I sympathize with the OP. It's harder and harder to get excited about a lame thing. And it's worth less and less the time. There were games last year I remember not even wanting to watch anticipating the suck. I'll never mail it in on my team, but I understand why so many have walked away from the mediocrity. In this economy its hard to throw good money at things that you don't feel have the same value.


Damn you articulated my sediments exactly.

maven
09-13-2011, 07:00 PM
I haven't spent a buck on the Denver Broncos in years. It's not worth it.

Circle Orange
09-13-2011, 07:02 PM
Unless you are the Patsy's and have Tom Brady to chuck it 500+ yards in a game.

In the past you had to run the ball, now you just have to have the threat of the run to keep teams honest.

We didn't have that last night and that allowed the butt-raiders to bring the house on Orton and the OL struggled.

Not to mention Brady had ten minutes back there to pitch and catch...incredibly, no holding calls! Maybe we need that kind of line that holds and grips, making a hero out of the qb. Shoot, even the rook Cameron (Panthers) threw for 400 yds out of the box...the NFL is screwy. What's the new bar for a good or great qb? 600yds and 8 touchdowns?! And I thought the arena league was squirrely. http://scosoft.com/s/n/4cc2da12.gif

Drek
09-13-2011, 07:04 PM
I'll spend money on the Broncos again when Pat Bowlen does.

KO5K
09-13-2011, 07:07 PM
From the perspective of 4-12, a return to the 7-9 wins area would look pretty good (at least to me).

I think everyone would agree that that would be a good step in the right direction.

But I just don't see how you could watch that game and come away thinking we could win 7 games, let alone 9.

Circle Orange
09-13-2011, 07:09 PM
I'm not at all emotionally invested in Tebow starting, especially not "at this point". He's not ready and if you think the media is brutal to him now... the criticism would increase exponentially if he were starting. Because he would struggle... and every wrong move would be "topic #1" discussed on every sports show that week.

Agreed, they would rip him alive. I don't think most people get this. The pundits are already carping about how he still hasn't impressed as a qb. Then you have a frustrated and angry fan base yelling for him to start. I still think Quinn is the most viable option if given the chance. We know what Orton is, and Tebow isn't ready and may never be as a qb. It could be that he's playing the wrong postition, as Mel Kiper suggested. I'm beginning to suspect he doesn't have the best skill set for a qb. He does some things well, but not in the right combination and not well enough.

broncosteven
09-13-2011, 07:12 PM
When the news broke that he'd been fired, it was "happy-dance" time. But much of the damage he could possibly do was already done. Last night I saw mistakes, but a lot of encouraging signs as well. It appears, however, that some Broncos fans were expecting a complete and total 180-degree turn from last season by the first game (an expectation of going from 4-12 to 12-4). And that's just unrealistic. I'm happy with a modest improvement that (I believe) will continue to improve as the season progresses. From the perspective of 4-12, a return to the 7-9 wins area would look pretty good (at least to me).

I agree, it is going to be a long haul, there were way too many holes to fill to turn it around in just one locked-out offseason. If I were trying to turn around a team desimated and discouraged after the short tenure of an immature ignorant punk kid I would do what I could with what I had and try to build one thing at a time.

I think the Von Miller pick was very good, at least it wasn't an RB, WR, or QB. We showed a lot of guts keeping the game close dispite all the mistakes.

I think we should be able to surprise a few teams and eek out 6-8 wins this year. Next year will be hard to because we will be breaking in another QB so I think it will take a good 3 years before we can expect to be a factor in the playoffs.

It just pains me to live in Chicagoland and to see Cutler on a team that plays to his strengths that can bail him out after an INT or 2 or 3... I am going to hear it from duh bear fans.

maven
09-13-2011, 07:12 PM
When the news broke that he'd been fired, it was "happy-dance" time. But much of the damage he could possibly do was already done. Last night I saw mistakes, but a lot of encouraging signs as well. It appears, however, that some Broncos fans were expecting a complete and total 180-degree turn from last season by the first game (an expectation of going from 4-12 to 12-4). And that's just unrealistic. I'm happy with a modest improvement that (I believe) will continue to improve as the season progresses. From the perspective of 4-12, a return to the 7-9 wins area would look pretty good (at least to me).

It's not unrealistic. In a league driven by parity a team can definitely turn it around in 1 year. I spit on modest improvement. That doesn't mean **** in the NFL.

Circle Orange
09-13-2011, 07:18 PM
Damn CO whats with the avatar?

I know it's awful...I'm searching for a better one. http://scosoft.com/s/d/34d98254.gif

KO5K
09-13-2011, 07:18 PM
Agreed, they would rip him alive. I don't think most people get this. The pundits are already carping about how he still hasn't impressed as a qb. Then you have a frustrated and angry fan base yelling for him to start. I still think Quinn is the most viable option if given the chance. We know what Orton is, and Tebow isn't ready and may never be as a qb. It could be that he's playing the wrong postition, as Mel Kiper suggested. I'm beginning to suspect he doesn't have the best skill set for a qb. He does some things well, but not in the right combination and not well enough.

Find me all the articles ripping Tebow late last year...

Some people seem to forget that Tebow already has three games under his belt and performed better than most rookies and the guy who supposedly gives us the best chance to win.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 07:22 PM
I think everyone would agree that that would be a good step in the right direction.

But I just don't see how you could watch that game and come away thinking we could win 7 games, let alone 9.

The team we played last night was not a 4-12 Raiders team... due to nearly a decade of very high draft picks (not all of them could be JaMarcus Russell) they have some good talent. Problem is, during the Shanahan era we got used to the trend of "beating the Raiders both times even if those were 2 of only 6 wins".

From what I saw, last night's game was lost "in the trenches".

Circle Orange
09-13-2011, 07:25 PM
Gotta admit, the raiders got some big dudes. And speed, too.

Eh, at least the fights spiced things up a little. http://scosoft.com/s/e/75f8256.gif

maven
09-13-2011, 07:26 PM
I'll spend money on the Broncos again when Pat Bowlen does.

here here.

If the owner isn't willing to spend why should I spend my dollars.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 07:28 PM
It's not unrealistic. In a league driven by parity a team can definitely turn it around in 1 year. I spit on modest improvement. That doesn't mean **** in the NFL.

If you believe this, then my suspicion is that you might be underestimating just how bad of shape McDaniels left this team in. There are only so many pieces of the puzzle that can be replaced per year (via draft/FA) and we had far too many needing to be replaced... to get it done in one lockout-shortened offseason. As proof, I'd point to Orton's contract which made it impossible for us to trade him or acquire someone better. So we're stuck going with the same personnel we had last year at QB. That changes next year.

maven
09-13-2011, 07:34 PM
If you believe this, then my suspicion is that you might be underestimating just how bad of shape McDaniels left this team in. There are only so many pieces of the puzzle that can be replaced per year (via draft/FA) and we had far too many needing to be replaced... to get it done in one lockout-shortened offseason. As proof, I'd point to Orton's contract which made it impossible for us to trade him or acquire someone better. So we're stuck going with the same personnel we had last year at QB. That changes next year.

Free Agency? What is that? As I recall, Denver sat and twiddle their thumbs amongst the greatest free agency period in years. If you cannot eat Orton's 1 year contract, you have major problems.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 07:41 PM
Free Agency? What is that? As I recall, Denver sat and twiddle their thumbs amongst the greatest free agency period in years. If you cannot eat Orton's 1 year contract, you have major problems.

Modest personnel changes = modest expectations for improvement (IMO). The Broncos are rebuilding and will eventually be making a return to playoff contention (again IMO)... but I don't expect that this season. Before 2010, 6-10 was our "floor".... I do expect better than that this year. Unless the coaches truly do decide to "Suck for Luck"... which I would personally hate. Luck might be "that good", but I hate seeing the Broncos lose.

maven
09-13-2011, 07:50 PM
Modest personnel changes = modest expectations for improvement (IMO). The Broncos are rebuilding and will eventually be making a return to playoff contention (again IMO)... but I don't expect that this season. Before 2010, 6-10 was our "floor".... I do expect better than that this year. Unless the coaches truly do decide to "Suck for Luck"... which I would personally hate. Luck might be "that good", but I hate seeing the Broncos lose.

You're happy with slow potential movement thinking it will pay off big one day.

In today's league, if you're not spending, that's your only hope.

spdirty
09-13-2011, 07:55 PM
Free Agency? What is that? As I recall, Denver sat and twiddle their thumbs amongst the greatest free agency period in years. If you cannot eat Orton's 1 year contract, you have major problems.

I partially agree with why we didnt spend the money on free agents though. Why would an owner break the bank when we have this situation at quarterback? Until we have a qb who can perform under pressure AND throw a consistent accurate ball, 99% of the time the ceiling for this team will never be super bowl champions. Have to have that quarterback before we are going to be serious contenders.

And I'm just as sick of 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 as I am of being this bad. With me it's at a point where I would sell my football soul, which means tank this season, if that means we can get to 12-4 type super bowl contender seasons in a few years.

tebowisdabomb
09-13-2011, 08:02 PM
Unfortunately, McDaniels didn't leave the Broncos with many options. The "trading away of talent" would have been ok if he'd utilized the return (all the draft picks) wisely, but he didn't. He reached and still got crap. FA? Overpaid for still more crap (mostly over-the-hill former Patriots). It will take a couple of seasons to completely rectify the McDaniels blunders.

If the Cutler deal and the Brandon Marshall deal had not happened (McDanials Fault) The Donks would be a force.

I know you people won't admit it, but Cutler would have been an excellent QB on this team for a long time and I jumped for joy when the sht hit the fan and he left.

spdirty
09-13-2011, 08:08 PM
If the Cutler deal and the Brandon Marshall deal had not happened (McDanials Fault) The Donks would be a force.

I know you people won't admit it, but Cutler would have been an excellent QB on this team for a long time and I jumped for joy when the sht hit the fan and he left.

That deal is over and done with. Can't change the past. The discussion is and should be "where do we go from here."

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 08:09 PM
You're happy with slow potential movement thinking it will pay off big one day.

In today's league, if you're not spending, that's your only hope.

What can I say? I'm looking at what is... not complaining over what might be if someone else made different choices with their money.
Had I been the one making decisions for Pat Bowlen, McDaniels would never have been HC of the Broncos. And then we wouldn't need to break the bank in order to be playoff-ready.

But I'm not in charge. (See we can both play the "what if" game...)

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 08:11 PM
If the Cutler deal and the Brandon Marshall deal had not happened (McDanials Fault) The Donks would be a force.

I know you people won't admit it, but Cutler would have been an excellent QB on this team for a long time and I jumped for joy when the sht hit the fan and he left.

Yeah... this team was in far better shape the day Shanahan left... than it was the day McDaniels was fired. McDaniels did a lot of damage.

tebowisdabomb
09-13-2011, 08:17 PM
This team should have never got rid of Shanarat... I couldn't stand the guy but this team has some sort of direction every year even the down years..

baja
09-13-2011, 08:23 PM
It looked like men against boys out there. We are many good drafts away from good.

BroncoLover
09-13-2011, 08:28 PM
Yeah this is a rant but I have given myself over 16 hours to chill and still feel this way. I just dumped my tix for three games this season on stub hub. I just booked a fishing trip next Sunday.

You idiots want to treat this as a business? Fine - I am walking. I have followed the Broncos for 35 years. I can probably count the number of games during that stretch that I didn't watch on one hand. I have an entire wardrobe dedicated to Broncos gear. I buy every ticket I can afford. No longer. I'm done with supporting this team in any way economically until they field a product worth watching. And no, that doesn't mean it has to be Tebow. Hell, give Quinn a try. But doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is about a dumb as hiring the head coach from the only team worse than you were last year - oh wait.

And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.

I am very happy to know, you never made a mistake, making any and will make any in the years to come. I wish there was someone as perfect as you in every house.

/end sarcasam

BroncoLover
09-13-2011, 08:31 PM
Yeah... this team was in far better shape the day Shanahan left... than it was the day McDaniels was fired. McDaniels did a lot of damage.

do you look back at your life and think i should have done this or that ? we cannot do anything about what has happened. There is no point of what if ... I am sure good things are around the corner. Hope we turn that corner soon enough and it is '97 and '98 all over again.

Garcia Bronco
09-13-2011, 08:38 PM
I agree to an extent Que. I am tired of the lack of ability to understand the teams we play in our division and how we have to win these games. And definitely at home. I stopped supporting the team financially until they get it together. It's the only say I have.

Bob's your Information Minister
09-13-2011, 08:40 PM
You guys are being a little harsh on the new regime.

You should have anticipated being crappy this year with the lockout.

Garcia Bronco
09-13-2011, 08:41 PM
I am very happy to know, you never made a mistake, making any and will make any in the years to come. I wish there was someone as perfect as you in every house.

/end sarcasam

People make mistakes. Everyone. The way we separate ourselves is by minimizing these mistakes in the things we do. The Broncos are not minimizing their mistakes. It's a pattern of behavior.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 08:43 PM
do you look back at your life and think i should have done this or that ? we cannot do anything about what has happened. There is no point of what if ... I am sure good things are around the corner. Hope we turn that corner soon enough and it is '97 and '98 all over again.

Sometimes one can have fleeting thoughts of "what if" different choices had been made. And one can acknowledge the "lessons learned" from mistakes that were made. But we have to accept what the situation is now and move forward; hopefully in a positive direction for the team's success.

Popps
09-13-2011, 08:47 PM
Well if this thread doesn't get the front office's attention, nothing will.

MagicHef
09-13-2011, 09:00 PM
Franklin looks way overmatched to me. Still, the only way to get him used to the speed of the game is to get him used to the speed of the game.

I think he'd learn best by sitting on the bench. Also, what if he made a mistake? Someone in the media might notice and write about it. We certainly can't have that.

Que
09-13-2011, 09:02 PM
Free Agency? What is that? As I recall, Denver sat and twiddle their thumbs amongst the greatest free agency period in years. If you cannot eat Orton's 1 year contract, you have major problems.

Just landed in DC and got an earful about Shanny from the cabbie. Too funny. Anyhow ya - this. Wise man says do not buy sushi from a bankrupt restaurant. It is rotten.

Can't support that any more. I hope I am wrong. I really do. But I am trying to make my point in the only language to which the front office seems listen. Because win/loss, talent acquisition AND retention, division records and playoff wins don't seem to be any of their Key Performance Indicators for a long while.

GvPlaya-something et al - call me what you want. That's cool. We all have choices and I no longer choose to spend my entertainment dollars on this product until it changes. Enjoy the seats!

bowtown
09-13-2011, 09:04 PM
Aren't you supposed to be camping or something?

Que
09-13-2011, 09:06 PM
Aren't you supposed to be camping or something?

Naw that's two weeks from now. Working for The Man right now. All good though. Only gone for a few days.

MagicHef
09-13-2011, 09:26 PM
I guess I don't get the whole "media will be mean to him" angle of why Tebow shouldn't play. Did you see some of the "highlights" of Tebow after his first preseason game? I remember one that only showed Tebow getting sacked, none of his throws, and said something about how he struggled. Nothing about being 6/7 for 91 yards.

The media will always portray him as bad until he unquestionably proves them wrong. Yes, there will be more attention and scrutiny if he's starting rather than sitting, but if he can't take it, he chose the wrong profession. The media's opinion just honestly has no place in the discussion of who should be starting.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 10:16 PM
I guess I don't get the whole "media will be mean to him" angle of why Tebow shouldn't play. Did you see some of the "highlights" of Tebow after his first preseason game? I remember one that only showed Tebow getting sacked, none of his throws, and said something about how he struggled. Nothing about being 6/7 for 91 yards.

The media will always portray him as bad until he unquestionably proves them wrong. Yes, there will be more attention and scrutiny if he's starting rather than sitting, but if he can't take it, he chose the wrong profession. The media's opinion just honestly has no place in the discussion of who should be starting.

A lot of Tebow fans have been complaining and hand-wringing over how unfair the media has been to Tebow. The point is that if he's already under intense media scrutiny while sitting on the bench behind Orton and probably Quinn as well, it's logical to conclude that the media spotlight would intensify (as would the complaining of the Tebow supporters) if he were to start and show any imperfections whatsoever. This would be a distraction (not a good thing) for the team, particularly if the coaches... who see him in practice every day... are the ones who are right about his readiness to be "the guy". Yeah, some fans may desperately want to see him on the field... and may not care that he's not ready. But the media circus... and other detrimental effects it could have on the team... need to be factored into the "equation" too.

Dagmar
09-13-2011, 10:26 PM
Well if this thread doesn't get the front office's attention, nothing will.

TJ thinks the Mane is being perused today. I'd be surprised, since they blatantly don't care what we think, just like the starting QB.

Br0nc0Buster
09-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Ive always taken the approach FA should generally be used for supplementing your team, not for buying perennial starters.

Our long term success is going to depend on how we draft, NOT how many FAs we sign
If signing FAs was the path to success, we would of won more than one playoff game under Shanny

I came into the season knowing we are in full rebuild mode, but optimistic we could maybe be competitive

I just want to see improvement
It sucks we are in this position, but it is what it is, its going to take a little time

I kind of assumed after the spontaneous and reckless style of McDaniels people would be receptive of taking a conservative approach, guess not

MagicHef
09-13-2011, 11:29 PM
A lot of Tebow fans have been complaining and hand-wringing over how unfair the media has been to Tebow. The point is that if he's already under intense media scrutiny while sitting on the bench behind Orton and probably Quinn as well, it's logical to conclude that the media spotlight would intensify (as would the complaining of the Tebow supporters) if he were to start and show any imperfections whatsoever. This would be a distraction (not a good thing) for the team, particularly if the coaches... who see him in practice every day... are the ones who are right about his readiness to be "the guy". Yeah, some fans may desperately want to see him on the field... and may not care that he's not ready. But the media circus... and other detrimental effects it could have on the team... need to be factored into the "equation" too.

Oh, come on. The fact that some fans may not like what the media will say is obviously not a valid reason for Tebow not to start.

As for its effect on the team, negative press galvanizes teams into solidarity just as often as, if not more often than, it creates distractions.

The fact that this is the logic you are championing makes it seem that you have no valid reasons for Tebow to sit, so you are grasping at straws and arguing whatever points might defend the conclusion you've already arrived at.

Personally, I think there are really only 2 reasons for Tebow to sit at this point:

1) He really doesn't know the playbook at all.

2) There would be unrest in the locker room if Orton were replaced.

Based on his performance last year and this preseason, I really doubt #1 is true, and if #2 is true, it will become less and less true with each performance similar to Monday that Orton provides.

RhymesayersDU
09-13-2011, 11:36 PM
It's not unrealistic. In a league driven by parity a team can definitely turn it around in 1 year. I spit on modest improvement. That doesn't mean **** in the NFL.

Color me not surprised this attitude comes from a Miami Heat fan.

You can't turn it around in 1 year.

Blueflame
09-13-2011, 11:56 PM
Oh, come on. The fact that some fans may not like what the media will say is obviously not a valid reason for Tebow not to start.

As for its effect on the team, negative press galvanizes teams into solidarity just as often as, if not more often than, it creates distractions.

The fact that this is the logic you are championing makes it seem that you have no valid reasons for Tebow to sit, so you are grasping at straws and arguing whatever points might defend the conclusion you've already arrived at.

Personally, I think there are really only 2 reasons for Tebow to sit at this point:

1) He really doesn't know the playbook at all.

2) There would be unrest in the locker room if Orton were replaced.

Based on his performance last year and this preseason, I really doubt #1 is true, and if #2 is true, it will become less and less true with each performance similar to Monday that Orton provides.

Actually there's only one valid reason for Tebow to sit: His coaches say he's not ready and have placed him behind other QBs on the depth chart. Why would "I" have to defend any decisions that "I" did not make? ???

However, it is my opinion that if the coaches are correct and Tebow's not ready, then they are doing him a huge favor by protecting him from further lampooning from the media (granting him the favor of time... out of the spotlight as much as possible... to get ready). And I also believe that the second item you listed (locker room unrest) would occur if the coaches/FO) bent to fan pressure and elevated Tebow now (unless Tebow has been practicing hard and did something amazing in practice... you know, earned the promotion).

The bottom line is I support the coaches' decision to start Orton... and if, after a few games, they decide Quinn is a better option, I'll support that decision too. And if they determine at some point in the future that Tebow is ready, I'll support that. It's my strong belief that the coaches know what they're doing (this isn't Fox's first HC gig); that they do have the best interests of the team in mind; and that there is no huge conspiracy to undermine Tebow (as some have claimed). There would be no logical motivation for them to do that.

broncocalijohn
09-14-2011, 12:10 AM
^ Im with you Blue but there are always circumstances that the coaches are just plain retarded or hard headed. Putting Tebow in more packages last year was a no brainer yet scraped after the opener. Blowout games would have been perfect for Tebow to come in during the 4th Quarter but not done. Go back to Slowick and we screamed to play closer to the line for our CB when it is 3rd and 3 and our guys are 10 yards off the ball. Tebow might have some limitations now but we know of his strong abilities and Orton's proven weaknesses. Fox wants to see what ORton gies him in the first few games so I get it and won't go off the handle like many have. BUT, if Orton continues to fail inside the 20 and we don't address our need for 7 points instead of field goals, we will have every right to demand something....anything. We did it with McDaniels ****ing up during games and this might be one of those times. We shall see this week or next.

troya900
09-14-2011, 12:18 AM
**** this team if they are behind the **** stain maned Orton. **** them. Period.

Exactly, except for a very, very, very select few, who's opinions and "feelings" should freaking matter at all? Is one of these other douchebags going to feel like the team is being let down if they go with Tebow? **** the lockerrooms "feelings" on who should be startiing, when the whole lot of them are a bunch of f'ing scrubs that deserve no respect from fans and should be more concerned and embarrassed by their own play than worrying about if AbOrton or if Tebow is playing under center. I just don't get this whole "lose the lockerroom" bull**** schtick. As if anyone of those worthless scrubs that can't do their OWN job should worry about Tebow getting a shot over the AbOrton.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 12:30 AM
Actually there's only one valid reason for Tebow to sit: His coaches say he's not ready and have placed him behind other QBs on the depth chart. Why would "I" have to defend any decisions that "I" did not make? ???

However, it is my opinion that if the coaches are correct and Tebow's not ready, then they are doing him a huge favor by protecting him from further lampooning from the media (granting him the favor of time... out of the spotlight as much as possible... to get ready). And I also believe that the second item you listed (locker room unrest) would occur if the coaches/FO) bent to fan pressure and elevated Tebow now (unless Tebow has been practicing hard and did something amazing in practice... you know, earned the promotion).

The bottom line is I support the coaches' decision to start Orton... and if, after a few games, they decide Quinn is a better option, I'll support that decision too. And if they determine at some point in the future that Tebow is ready, I'll support that. It's my strong belief that the coaches know what they're doing (this isn't Fox's first HC gig); that they do have the best interests of the team in mind; and that there is no huge conspiracy to undermine Tebow (as some have claimed). There would be no logical motivation for them to do that.

I said conclusion, not decision.

Did you support Shanahan's decision to keep Slowik as a DC? Coaches make mistakes, too. That's what I think this is, it's not a conspiracy, just a mistake.

It's fine that you think Orton is the best option for now, I'm just trying to show you that media scrutiny is not a very good argument for that.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 12:55 AM
I said conclusion, not decision.

Did you support Shanahan's decision to keep Slowik as a DC? Coaches make mistakes, too. That's what I think this is, it's not a conspiracy, just a mistake.

It's fine that you think Orton is the best option for now, I'm just trying to show you that media scrutiny is not a very good argument for that.

I supported Bowlen's decision to let Shanahan go if keeping him meant also keeping Slowik. However, I thought Bowlen's decision to hire McDaniels and to give him HC/GM power... was a mistake. So if your question was... do I "always" agree with coaching decisions, the answer is "no". I intensely disagreed with Shanahan's decision to acquire Dale Carter... and hated seeing Carter in orange and blue.

This is the point where we disagree: I believe the coaches when they say Tebow's nowhere near ready to start. And you think they're mistaken. We can agree to disagree on that.

But... given the fact that I'm fully buying the coaches' contention that Tebow's not ready... then IMO, starting him instead of Orton wouldn't be the choice that gives the team the best chance of winning games. And... keeping him on the bench where his shortcomings are not so glaringly obvious to commentators like Bradshaw and Theismann...is a favor granted to Tebow by his coaches. It's a secondary concern; not a primary one.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 01:03 AM
^ Im with you Blue but there are always circumstances that the coaches are just plain retarded or hard headed. Putting Tebow in more packages last year was a no brainer yet scraped after the opener. Blowout games would have been perfect for Tebow to come in during the 4th Quarter but not done. Go back to Slowick and we screamed to play closer to the line for our CB when it is 3rd and 3 and our guys are 10 yards off the ball. Tebow might have some limitations now but we know of his strong abilities and Orton's proven weaknesses. Fox wants to see what ORton gies him in the first few games so I get it and won't go off the handle like many have. BUT, if Orton continues to fail inside the 20 and we don't address our need for 7 points instead of field goals, we will have every right to demand something....anything. We did it with McDaniels ****ing up during games and this might be one of those times. We shall see this week or next.

Can the coaches really bring in Tebow for a play here and there in games while some fans are chanting "Te-bow, Te-bow, Te-bow" though? When there are differing opinions as to who should be starting, the quickest way to end the controversy is to firmly state who is the starter and stick to that decision (show no signs of vacillation) for longer than a single poor performance in a football game. Otherwise, you allow the debate to become a distraction. The clamor for Tebow to start has actually been a distraction to the team from the moment McDaniels drafted him (some of his fans don't realize he's a "project" that will take time... perhaps lots of it).

troya900
09-14-2011, 01:39 AM
Can the coaches really bring in Tebow for a play here and there in games while some fans are chanting "Te-bow, Te-bow, Te-bow" though? When there are differing opinions as to who should be starting, the quickest way to end the controversy is to firmly state who is the starter and stick to that decision (show no signs of vacillation) for longer than a single poor performance in a football game. Otherwise, you allow the debate to become a distraction. The clamor for Tebow to start has actually been a distraction to the team from the moment McDaniels drafted him (some of his fans don't realize he's a "project" that will take time... perhaps lots of it).

Wtf are you smoking? Single poor performance? The whole reason many of us are wanting to see tebow given a shot is because the crap AbOrton pulled monday night is freaking par for the course throughout his broncos career. Redzone troubles AGAIN, when theres a chance to take the lead he ****s the bed and fumbles the ball cocking his arm back? Good job AbOrton bravo, par for the f'ing course with AbOrton. Another big fat L notched in the loser column, thank you AbOrton.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 01:48 AM
Wtf are you smoking? Single poor performance? The whole reason many of us are wanting to see tebow given a shot is because the crap AbOrton pulled monday night is freaking par for the course throughout his broncos career. Redzone troubles AGAIN, when theres a chance to take the lead he ****s the bed and fumbles the ball cocking his arm back? Good job AbOrton bravo, par for the f'ing course with AbOrton. Another big fat L notched in the loser column, thank you AbOrton.

Um... there's only been one game played this season (a single game played since this coaching staff named Orton their starting QB).

The blocked punt was a costly miscue by special teams too.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 02:12 AM
Um... there's only been one game played this season (a single game played since this coaching staff named Orton their starting QB).

The blocked punt was a costly miscue by special teams too.

Why would the coaches naming Orton the starter change anything? If you're looking for a time reference to begin analyzing Orton from, make it one that matters, such as when he started playing for this team, not one that doesn't, such as that one day that nothing changed.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 02:50 AM
Why would the coaches naming Orton the starter change anything? If you're looking for a time reference to begin analyzing Orton from, make it one that matters, such as when he started playing for this team, not one that doesn't, such as that one day that nothing changed.

I'd say "something changed" the day that this coaching staff named Orton the starter. The whining from those who wanted Tebow at all costs; whether he was ready or not... commenced.

Seriously, though... when they named Orton the starter, they set their own... current... depth chart and changing that based on past (as opposed to current) performance would be... silly (if the 3 QBs' performance during the McDaniels era was going to enter into Fox's depth chart decision, it would have entered into the very first depth chart ranking Fox announced). And it would be premature to make a change after a single game of their tenure. Now, if the team continues to lose... and it appears to them that Orton is a liability (and that Quinn or Tebow would give the team a better chance of winning), then maybe they might make a change... but I wouldn't expect one until around Week 4 or 5.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 03:20 AM
I'd say "something changed" the day that this coaching staff named Orton the starter. The whining from those who wanted Tebow at all costs; whether he was ready or not... commenced.

Seriously, though... when they named Orton the starter, they set their own... current... depth chart and changing that based on past (as opposed to current) performance would be... silly (if the 3 QBs' performance during the McDaniels era was going to enter into Fox's depth chart decision, it would have entered into the very first depth chart ranking Fox announced). And it would be premature to make a change after a single game of their tenure. Now, if the team continues to lose... and it appears to them that Orton is a liability (and that Quinn or Tebow would give the team a better chance of winning), then maybe they might make a change... but I wouldn't expect one until around Week 4 or 5.

Operative word bolded.

That actually makes sense, thanks. The reason they think Orton gives the team a better chance to win is because they didn't bother to look at any tape.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 03:37 AM
Operative word bolded.

That actually makes sense, thanks. The reason they think Orton gives the team a better chance to win is because they didn't bother to look at any tape.

If that were true (Fox and his coaching staff not bothering to look at any tape) then that would mean they're completely and totally incompetent and unfit to hold a HC job. How long was Fox HC in Carolina? (9 years) And didn't he go to a SB? (Yes) Didn't his team lose the SB by only 3 points? (Yup) And didn't he take his team to 11 or more wins 3 times in 9 seasons? (Yes) Not bad for a guy who's allegedly too inept to bother watching tape.

Blart
09-14-2011, 04:07 AM
Tebow fan spotted

fontaine
09-14-2011, 04:33 AM
If that were true (Fox and his coaching staff not bothering to look at any tape) then that would mean they're completely and totally incompetent and unfit to hold a HC job. How long was Fox HC in Carolina? (9 years) And didn't he go to a SB? (Yes) Didn't his team lose the SB by only 3 points? (Yup) And didn't he take his team to 11 or more wins 3 times in 9 seasons? (Yes) Not bad for a guy who's allegedly too inept to bother watching tape.


I don't think you can put this on Fox.

Orton clearly was the better practice QB as you would expect since he knows the players, the offense, and wears a non contact jersey.

In other words Fox expects him to play like a veteran but what's becoming clear is that the run game/OL is going to take a lot more work to fix. It wasn't just guys like Moreno/Walton/Beadles were inexperienced, injured etc, they kind of suck too against physical, big DLs.

So now that we know the OL/Running Game isn't going to be all that much better, why keep putting in Orton who's NEVER going to play well in those conditions? It's the basic definition of insanity to keep doing the same things again and again and expect a different result.

Fox no doubt has to give these guys including Orton, a couple more chances to be sure if it was just a bad game or a real problem but most of us kinda realize Orton's heart isn't in this team any more.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 04:52 AM
If that were true (Fox and his coaching staff not bothering to look at any tape) then that would mean they're completely and totally incompetent and unfit to hold a HC job. How long was Fox HC in Carolina? (9 years) And didn't he go to a SB? (Yes) Didn't his team lose the SB by only 3 points? (Yup) And didn't he take his team to 11 or more wins 3 times in 9 seasons? (Yes) Not bad for a guy who's allegedly too inept to bother watching tape.

Hey, don't blame me. I had been operating under the assumption that they made the decision by at least considering game tape, but when you brought up the possibility that they didn't consider anything that happened from the McDaniels era, it made me think "maybe she has a point." We do know that they didn't base the decision off of training camp or preseason games since Orton got all of the snaps with the #1s in both situations.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 04:54 AM
Tebow fan spotted

I guess so. I'm a fan of everyone on the team. I don't think, though, that McBath should start over Moore because he has more experience. Does that make me a Moore fan?

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 04:56 AM
I don't think you can put this on Fox.

Orton clearly was the better practice QB as you would expect since he knows the players, the offense, and wears a non contact jersey.

In other words Fox expects him to play like a veteran but what's becoming clear is that the run game/OL is going to take a lot more work to fix. It wasn't just guys like Moreno/Walton/Beadles were inexperienced, injured etc, they kind of suck too against physical, big DLs.

So now that we know the OL/Running Game isn't going to be all that much better, why keep putting in Orton who's NEVER going to play well in those conditions? It's the basic definition of insanity to keep doing the same things again and again and expect a different result.

Fox no doubt has to give these guys including Orton, a couple more chances to be sure if it was just a bad game or a real problem but most of us kinda realize Orton's heart isn't in this team any more.

I'm not buying for an instant the notion that Fox and his staff failed to watch any tape. Sports shows last week were showing tape of Tebow (and Cam Newton) in slow motion and highlighting the problem areas. Fox & co. are not wrong that Tebow isn't ready.

That said, I can't blame Orton if he does wish he were playing for any other franchise. McDaniels brought the circus to town and all we can do now is watch it all play out...and the cacophony to get louder with every mistake Orton makes (regardless of any good plays he makes).

fontaine
09-14-2011, 05:06 AM
I'm not buying for an instant the notion that Fox and his staff failed to watch any tape. Sports shows last week were showing tape of Tebow (and Cam Newton) in slow motion and highlighting the problem areas. Fox & co. are not wrong that Tebow isn't ready.

That said, I can't blame Orton if he does wish he were playing for any other franchise. McDaniels brought the circus to town and all we can do now is watch it all play out...and the cacophony to get louder with every mistake Orton makes (regardless of any good plays he makes).

And I agree, Tebow isn't ready as a pure passer.

But ironically, in a team that can't run the football, has a mediocre OL Tebow is a better option than Orton.

The only way Orton works is in an offense where he can hand the ball off, go for 3rd and short with good pass protection and isn't asked to do anything special in the red zone.

Everything this offense isn't.

That's why the preseason, training camp QB competition is ALL meaningless at this point.

Put it into perspective. With all the struggles running the ball, OL issues, we were three points away from putting it into OT.

Tebow's mobility and running style gives us those first downs where Orton throws the ball away.

Sooner or later Tebow will come and play. Not because it makes us a better passing offense, but it makes us a more competitive team.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:11 AM
Hey, don't blame me. I had been operating under the assumption that they made the decision by at least considering game tape, but when you brought up the possibility that they didn't consider anything that happened from the McDaniels era, it made me think "maybe she has a point." We do know that they didn't base the decision off of training camp or preseason games since Orton got all of the snaps with the #1s in both situations.

Then you misunderstood me. What I meant was that if the new coaching staff was going to place weight on "past seasons" in evaluating the 3 QBs and making their own depth chart... they would (and most likely did) factor that in before making their first announcement as to who their starter was going to be. They wouldn't announce a starter and then wait until after Game One of the regular season to suddenly... capriciously... make a change; reversing their own assessment of Tebow's development (as you seemed to be suggesting)... and elevate the guy they have (by all indications) penciled in at #3 to the starting job. It just isn't gonna happen that way.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:14 AM
And I agree, Tebow isn't ready as a pure passer.

But ironically, in a team that can't run the football, has a mediocre OL Tebow is a better option than Orton.

The only way Orton works is in an offense where he can hand the ball off, go for 3rd and short with good pass protection and isn't asked to do anything special in the red zone.

Everything this offense isn't.

That's why the preseason, training camp QB competition is ALL meaningless at this point.

Put it into perspective. With all the struggles running the ball, OL issues, we were three points away from putting it into OT.

Tebow's mobility and running style gives us those first downs where Orton throws the ball away.

Sooner or later Tebow will come and play. Not because it makes us a better passing offense, but it makes us a more competitive team.

I think we'll see Quinn first. Tebow's one-dimensional... if his primary receiver isn't open, he just tucks the ball and tries to run (no check-downs). Opposing defenses would notice this trend very quickly, especially with all of the sports shows on tv pointing it out for them (as they did last week).

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 05:25 AM
Then you misunderstood me. What I meant was that if the new coaching staff was going to place weight on "past seasons" in evaluating the 3 QBs and making their own depth chart... they would (and most likely did) factor that in before making their first announcement as to who their starter was going to be. They wouldn't announce a starter and then wait until after Game One of the regular season to suddenly... capriciously... make a change; reversing their own assessment of Tebow's development (as you seemed to be suggesting)... and elevate the guy they have (by all indications) penciled in at #3 to the starting job. It just isn't gonna happen that way.

Oh, I understood what you were trying to say, I just thought that what you actually said was much more interesting.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:29 AM
Oh, I understood what you were trying to say, I just thought that what you actually said was much more interesting.

Question... do you truly believe that anything Orton does or doesn't do should affect (reverse) the coaches' assessment of Tebow's readiness to start? My take is... that should depend on Tebow; not Orton.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 05:56 AM
Question... do you truly believe that anything Orton does or doesn't do should affect (reverse) the coaches' assessment of Tebow's readiness to start? My take is... that should depend on Tebow; not Orton.

Of course it should, and it will. Starting has never been about being ready, it's about winning games.

Do you think Newton is ready?

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 06:12 AM
Of course it should, and it will. Starting has never been about being ready, it's about winning games.

Do you think Newton is ready?

I think it's Tebow himself... not Orton... who's standing in the way of Tebow winning the starting job.

And no... I don't think Newton is ready yet. But he's closer than Tebow is. Stafford looks to be ready.

jhns
09-14-2011, 06:14 AM
I think it's Tebow himself... not Orton... who's standing in the way of Tebow winning the starting job.

And no... I don't think Newton is ready yet. But he's closer than Tebow is. Stafford looks to be ready.

He has already outproduced Orton in real games. This fact cpunters every argument against Tebow. I will never understand the hate. This wouldn't be an argument if he was anyone other than Tebow.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 06:18 AM
He has already outproduced Orton in real games. This fact cpunters every argument against Tebow. I will never understand the hate. This wouldn't be an argument if he was anyone other than Tebow.

Doubting that he's ready now = "hate", eh? Nice.

jhns
09-14-2011, 06:26 AM
Doubting that he's ready now = "hate", eh? Nice.

What fo you call it? At what point has a player ever outproduced the starter in live games and then been continually called not ready as they weren't given the starting job? There is a lot of history in this league and I can't think of a single example.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 06:30 AM
Doubting that he's ready now = "hate", eh? Nice.

Now I have a question for you.

What happened that caused Orton to go from "on the trading block" to "unquestioned starter?" It wasn't anything that happened in practice or games, because Orton took all of the first team reps in both. It had to have been something that happened before training camp.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 06:31 AM
What fo you call it? At what point has a player ever outproduced the starter in live games and then been continually called not ready as they weren't given the starting job? There is a lot of history in this league and I can't think of a single example.

Yet he hasn't won the starting job over that "sucky" starter...under two different coaching staffs.

jhns
09-14-2011, 06:37 AM
Yet he hasn't won the starting job over that "sucky" starter...under two different coaching staffs.

He was a rookie on one staff and did better when he got a chance. You are giving me the Hillis argument and we see how that turnee out for us.

You are right, he hasn't won the starting job for a coach that has never had good QB play and loves his "safe" veterans. Great argument. Fact: He outproduced anything Orton has done here in live games. Any other tome this has ever happened, that player starts until he shows he no longer is outproducing the starter. Go ahead and claim it isn't hate.

Bahshay
09-14-2011, 07:34 AM
Didn't bother reading the whole thread (or most threads at this bitchfest of a forum), but does anyone realize that the Broncos couldn't give a **** that he sold his tickets? They still got paid for the seats, they don't care who actually sits in them.

jhns
09-14-2011, 07:38 AM
Didn't bother reading the whole thread (or most threads at this b****fest of a forum), but does anyone realize that the Broncos couldn't give a **** that he sold his tickets? They still got paid for the seats, they don't care who actually sits in them.

The cool guy just showed up!

fontaine
09-14-2011, 07:39 AM
I think we'll see Quinn first. Tebow's one-dimensional... if his primary receiver isn't open, he just tucks the ball and tries to run (no check-downs). Opposing defenses would notice this trend very quickly, especially with all of the sports shows on tv pointing it out for them (as they did last week).

As opposed to what?

Watching Orton lock onto Lloyd and if he's not open throw it away, or take a sack, or turn it over?

I'm under no illusions on Tebow's play. He'll make a lot of mistakes but he'll also make a lot of plays purely based on his physical ability.

I understand Fox has to give his starters a chance to see if the OL/DL/QB play was just week 1 jitters/nerves/temporary insanity or whatever, but if we continue to get similar sort of play then Orton's gone by week 5.

Eldorado
09-14-2011, 07:42 AM
I think we'll see Quinn first. Tebow's one-dimensional... if his primary receiver isn't open, he just tucks the ball and tries to run (no check-downs). Opposing defenses would notice this trend very quickly, especially with all of the sports shows on tv pointing it out for them (as they did last week).

Oh please god, no. Quinn's one dimensional too...the dimension of suck.

fontaine
09-14-2011, 07:43 AM
Now I have a question for you.

What happened that caused Orton to go from "on the trading block" to "unquestioned starter?" It wasn't anything that happened in practice or games, because Orton took all of the first team reps in both. It had to have been something that happened before training camp.

The first was a FO decision to get the most out of a player that was bound to leave on a high salary.

The second was purely a coach's decision to start who he thought would give the team the best chance to win at that time.

bendog
09-14-2011, 07:54 AM
The first was a FO decision to get the most out of a player that was bound to leave on a high salary.

The second was purely a coach's decision to start who he thought would give the team the best chance to win at that time.

I think it's even simplier than that. The FO determined that they weren't going to have a playoff caliber offense with a qb who can't take snaps from center but instead has to go shotgun as every down formation. Anyone who can't understand the legitmacy of that decision is pretty much an idiot footballwise.

But Tebow's gonna start pretty soon. If the team can't beat Oak at home in week one, there's not a lot to be gained in not starting him even if he's nowhere near ready. It's not about Tebow so much as not losing the fan base.

Bahshay
09-14-2011, 09:04 AM
The cool guy just showed up!

Don't make me blush. How can I be the cool guy when you spend every waking hour on a forum for a team that you show no signs of actually being a fan of? I'm a long way away from being as cool as you are.

jhns
09-14-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm a long way away from being as cool as you are.

That was never in questiob.

Bahshay
09-14-2011, 09:14 AM
That was never in questiob.

No doubt. I can only hope to make half of the 8000 posts that don't add anything useful or intelligent that you've been able to accomplish.

jhns
09-14-2011, 09:16 AM
No doubt. I can only hope to make half of the 8000 posts that don't add anything useful or intelligent that you've been able to accomplish.

A cool guy is clearly one that comes to a message board to tell everyone how cool they are.

Bahshay
09-14-2011, 09:21 AM
A cool guy is clearly one that comes to a message board to tell everyone how cool they are.

Haha ok champ, I'm not going to argue with you. Now you are just making stuff up to try to win, but that is my fault for expecting anything more out of you.

"The Broncos don't care if he sells his tickets" = "HEY EVERYBODY COME SEE HOW GOOD I LOOK". You nailed it. I'll go grab lunch now, cause I'm cool like that.

jhns
09-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Haha ok champ, I'm not going to argue with you. Now you are just making stuff up to try to win, but that is my fault for expecting anything more out of you.

"The Broncos don't care if he sells his tickets" = "HEY EVERYBODY COME SEE HOW GOOD I LOOK". You nailed it. I'll go grab lunch now, cause I'm cool like that.

You think he doesn't know that? That response just shows that you are dumb...

bendog
09-14-2011, 09:26 AM
Cool? I'll show you cool.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0329/nfl_g_saban01_600.jpg

Bahshay
09-14-2011, 09:32 AM
From the second page:

"I hope you stick with it and I wish more people would join you."

In another post, he also mentioned that he wrote a note to Elway, as if Elway gives a ****.

Clearly, its not as understood as you think it is. I'm sure you just happened to miss that post. Posts like these are hard to see in between all of your posts where you bitch about Orton. (Here is the part where you call me a stupid Ortonite, even though you have no idea whether or not I actually support Orton)

jhns
09-14-2011, 09:35 AM
From the second page:

"I hope you stick with it and I wish more people would join you."

In another post, he also mentioned that he wrote a note to Elway, as if Elway gives a ****.

Clearly, its not as understood as you think it is. I'm sure you just happened to miss that post. Posts like these are hard to see in between all of your posts where you b**** about Orton. (Here is the part where you call me a stupid Ortonite, even though you have no idea whether or not I actually support Orton)

Why would I include Ortonite in that?

Your little rant just proves my point.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 11:27 AM
The first was a FO decision to get the most out of a player that was bound to leave on a high salary.

The second was purely a coach's decision to start who he thought would give the team the best chance to win at that time.

I just don't understand how that decision can be made without any sort of competition, especially when the guy who they decide on lead the team to a 3-10 record last year, and was apparently so important to the team that they were just trying to get rid of him.

bendog
09-14-2011, 11:34 AM
I just don't understand how that decision can be made without any sort of competition, especially when the guy who they decide on lead the team to a 3-10 record last year, and was apparently so important to the team that they were just trying to get rid of him.

Makes ya wonder how bad Tebow must have sucked in camp, doesn't it. Wait, Brady Quinn executed the offense better. OMG.

OABB
09-14-2011, 11:35 AM
Makes ya wonder how bad Tebow must have sucked in camp, doesn't it. Wait, Brady Quinn executed the offense better. OMG.

LOL

gunns
09-14-2011, 12:02 PM
I think a simple bye would have sufficed before it got to 8 pages.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 12:09 PM
Makes ya wonder how bad Tebow must have sucked in camp, doesn't it. Wait, Brady Quinn executed the offense better. OMG.

Not really, because the decision was obviously made before camp. The same holds true for Quinn. He didn't practice with the first team at all in camp. Why?

bendog
09-14-2011, 12:22 PM
Not really, because the decision was obviously made before camp. The same holds true for Quinn. He didn't practice with the first team at all in camp. Why?

Of course, Den never tried to trade Orton. That was a ... mirage.

http://thataintkosher.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/facepalm-dog.jpg

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Of course, Den never tried to trade Orton. That was a ... mirage.

http://thataintkosher.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/facepalm-dog.jpg

Yikes. You are obviously having trouble understanding my point. I'll spell it out again, but if you don't get it this time, maybe ask for clarification rather than responding to... I don't even know what.

At one point, the FO was trying to trade Orton. At this point, they obviously felt that he was not a necessary part of the team.

At a later point, the FO decided that there was not any need for a QB competition, giving Orton every snap with the starters in training camp and the preseason games (except for when he was away at the birth of his daughter). At this point, they obviously felt that he was an invaluable part of the team.

What happened that changed their minds? It wasn't anything that happened in camp, because the decision had already been made by the time camp started.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 01:40 PM
He was a rookie on one staff and did better when he got a chance. You are giving me the Hillis argument and we see how that turnee out for us.

You are right, he hasn't won the starting job for a coach that has never had good QB play and loves his "safe" veterans. Great argument. Fact: He outproduced anything Orton has done here in live games. Any other tome this has ever happened, that player starts until he shows he no longer is outproducing the starter. Go ahead and claim it isn't hate.

Right. Going from #2 to #3 is "doing better". Too funny. The only coach he's had that gave him a starting nod was the temp Studesville who had nothing to lose; as he was only gonna finish the 2010 season as HC anyway.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 03:44 PM
Blueflame, bendog:

I don't blame you for not wanting to answer my question. All of the possible answers are kind of embarrassing, and not very nice to think about.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Blueflame, bendog:

I don't blame you for not wanting to answer my question. All of the possible answers are kind of embarrassing, and not very nice to think about.

There was a question in there somewhere? ???

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 03:55 PM
There was a question in there somewhere? ???

Posts 157 (addressed directly to you) and 181 ask the same question.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 04:04 PM
Yikes. You are obviously having trouble understanding my point. I'll spell it out again, but if you don't get it this time, maybe ask for clarification rather than responding to... I don't even know what.

At one point, the FO was trying to trade Orton. At this point, they obviously felt that he was not a necessary part of the team.

At a later point, the FO decided that there was not any need for a QB competition, giving Orton every snap with the starters in training camp and the preseason games (except for when he was away at the birth of his daughter). At this point, they obviously felt that he was an invaluable part of the team.

What happened that changed their minds? It wasn't anything that happened in camp, because the decision had already been made by the time camp started.

Ok... "I" think that they tried to trade Orton due to his contract. But when that deal fell through and training camp started, they got an unpleasant surprise regarding where Tebow was in his development. I think at that point (when Tebow first went out on the field to practice) they literally went "OMG Tebow's nowhere near ready to start" just like they've repeatedly stated.

With a HC who values and respects experience and veteran players (like Fox) it's not surprising that... going into camp with 4 QBs, the one with the most experience (also the one who started last season) was the presumed starter on the first day of camp... with the others needing to "show something" to change that.

Yeah. What changed is Elway and Fox watched Tebow practice and saw just how much work he needs before he'll be ready.

Eldorado
09-14-2011, 04:18 PM
Ok... "I" think that they tried to trade Orton due to his contract. But when that deal fell through and training camp started, they got an unpleasant surprise regarding where Tebow was in his development. I think at that point (when Tebow first went out on the field to practice) they literally went "OMG Tebow's nowhere near ready to start" just like they've repeatedly stated.

With a HC who values and respects experience and veteran players (like Fox) it's not surprising that... going into camp with 4 QBs, the one with the most experience (also the one who started last season) was the presumed starter on the first day of camp... with the others needing to "show something" to change that.

Yeah. What changed is Elway and Fox watched Tebow practice and saw just how much work he needs before he'll be ready.

Yup. Pretty straight forward. I was just thinking of outlining this. Glad I read on first.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 04:22 PM
Yup. Pretty straight forward. I was just thinking of outlining this. Glad I read on first.

In looking at the series of events, it's the only thing that makes any sense. And this theory is supported by all of the reports from people who made it to camp... and the media as well: that Tebow was struggling noticeably and looked... well, bad.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 04:35 PM
Ok... "I" think that they tried to trade Orton due to his contract. But when that deal fell through and training camp started, they got an unpleasant surprise regarding where Tebow was in his development. I think at that point (when Tebow first went out on the field to practice) they literally went "OMG Tebow's nowhere near ready to start" just like they've repeatedly stated.

With a HC who values and respects experience and veteran players (like Fox) it's not surprising that... going into camp with 4 QBs, the one with the most experience (also the one who started last season) was the presumed starter on the first day of camp... with the others needing to "show something" to change that.

Yeah. What changed is Elway and Fox watched Tebow practice and saw just how much work he needs before he'll be ready.

This makes sense, except for the fact that Tebow and Quinn took no snaps with the first team throughout the entirety of training camp. How exactly did they determine that Tebow and Quinn were so far behind Orton before camp started?

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 04:37 PM
In looking at the series of events, it's the only thing that makes any sense. And this theory is supported by all of the reports from people who made it to camp... and the media as well: that Tebow was struggling noticeably and looked... well, bad.

The very first reports were saying that Quinn looked the best out of all the QBs. Why was he never allowed to practice with the first string?

Punisher
09-14-2011, 04:42 PM
What a quitter smh

baja
09-14-2011, 04:59 PM
Ok... "I" think that they tried to trade Orton due to his contract. But when that deal fell through and training camp started, they got an unpleasant surprise regarding where Tebow was in his development. I think at that point (when Tebow first went out on the field to practice) they literally went "OMG Tebow's nowhere near ready to start" just like they've repeatedly stated.

With a HC who values and respects experience and veteran players (like Fox) it's not surprising that... going into camp with 4 QBs, the one with the most experience (also the one who started last season) was the presumed starter on the first day of camp... with the others needing to "show something" to change that.

<b>Yeah. What changed is Elway and Fox watched Tebow practice and saw just how much work he needs before he'll be ready.

Guess the new $250,000 film machine that McD bought didn't work out so they couldn't watch the three games from last year unless they thought an off season book tour would improve his game.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:00 PM
This makes sense, except for the fact that Tebow and Quinn took no snaps with the first team throughout the entirety of training camp. How exactly did they determine that Tebow and Quinn were so far behind Orton before camp started?

The very first reports were saying that Quinn looked the best out of all the QBs. Why was he never allowed to practice with the first string?

Already answered. Because Orton was the veteran, he was the presumed starter at the beginning of training camp (meaning he took the snaps with the first team). And while Quinn reportedly looked the best of the QBs early on, the difference between the way he was playing and Orton's level of play apparently wasn't significant enough to merit a depth chart change. The coaches apparently liked what they were seeing from Orton. Simple as that...

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:04 PM
Guess the new $250,000 film machine that McD bought didn't work out so they couldn't watch the three games from last year unless they thought an off season book tour would improve his game.

One of the words I remember reading (re: Tebow) from the early camp reports... was "regressed". Which means in this year's training camp, he was playing at a perceived lower performance level than the "3 games" last season. It was new information that the coaching staff couldn't have foreseen from watching tape... and something they had to deal with once they realized what the true situation was.

It's apparent to me that until they saw him live in training camp, Elway and Fox thought Tebow was better (closer to being ready to start) than he actually is.

baja
09-14-2011, 05:04 PM
Early August Orton is shopped late August Orton is named the clear starter and it was reported "It wasn't even close.'

This should tell you all you need to know about the FO. It is populated with bumbling fools hired by a bumbling fool of an owner.

baja
09-14-2011, 05:06 PM
One of the words I remember reading (re: Tebow) from the early camp reports... was "regressed". Which means in this year's training camp, he was playing at a perceived lower performance level than the "3 games" last season. It was new information that the coaching staff couldn't have foreseen from watching tape... and something they had to deal with once they realized what the true situation was.

You don't think the smart (really only) move was to wait to see what they had BEFORE they shopped Orton. To me this screams BAD MANAGEMENT.

baja
09-14-2011, 05:10 PM
If someone that worked for me pulled a stunt like this they would be looking for work. This is no small f uck up

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:12 PM
You don't think the smart (really only) move was to wait to see what they had BEFORE they shopped Orton. To me this screams BAD MANAGEMENT.

Again, Baja... I think they wanted to unload Orton's contract. And like most of us fans, they were shocked to see how "not ready" Tebow is.

TheReverend
09-14-2011, 05:13 PM
And like most of us fans, they were shocked to see how "not ready" Tebow is.

Where'd you see this?

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 05:14 PM
Already answered. Because Orton was the veteran, he was the presumed starter at the beginning of training camp (meaning he took the snaps with the first team). And while Quinn reportedly looked the best of the QBs early on, the difference between the way he was playing and Orton's level of play apparently wasn't significant enough to merit a depth chart change. The coaches apparently liked what they were seeing from Orton. Simple as that...

So you honestly believe that Quinn looking better throwing to 2nd stringers and PS guys than Orton looked throwing to the first string isn't a reason to give Quinn even a chance to throw to the first string guys?

What were Quinn and Tebow supposed to do to even be given a chance to compete? Apparently looking better in a worse situation wasn't enough, I highly doubt there was anything either of them could have done.

Meanwhile, remember, the Broncos were publicly declaring they were having a QB competition, while just the opposite was actually taking place.

I don't even know what to say. You sound sincere, but the things you are saying are so ludicrous that it's hard to think you aren't pulling my leg.

baja
09-14-2011, 05:23 PM
Again, Baja... I think they wanted to unload Orton's contract. And like most of us fans, they were shocked to see how "not ready" Tebow is.

There is a big difference between most of us and the Front Office of the Broncos. Not knowing Tebow was not ready BEFORE shopping Orton is a Millenesque mistake. Mistake is not harsh enough, gross incompetence is more like it.

They are paid to not be "shocked" by something like this and if they were they were shocked they all should fired immediately.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:25 PM
Where'd you see this?

He asked for my "take"... and it was made clear this is "my opinion" of what happened to change Orton from being "expendable" to being "the guy". If you have a different take, I'd love to hear it.

As for Tebow not looking good early in camp, please review one of the many training camp report threads.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:27 PM
So you honestly believe that Quinn looking better throwing to 2nd stringers and PS guys than Orton looked throwing to the first string isn't a reason to give Quinn even a chance to throw to the first string guys?

What were Quinn and Tebow supposed to do to even be given a chance to compete? Apparently looking better in a worse situation wasn't enough, I highly doubt there was anything either of them could have done.

Meanwhile, remember, the Broncos were publicly declaring they were having a QB competition, while just the opposite was actually taking place.

I don't even know what to say. You sound sincere, but the things you are saying are so ludicrous that it's hard to think you aren't pulling my leg.

You're free to think what you will (explain it any way you'd like). :)

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:30 PM
There is a big difference between most of us and the Front Office of the Broncos. Not knowing Tebow was not ready BEFORE shopping Orton is a Millenesque mistake. Mistake is not harsh enough, gross incompetence is more like it.

They are paid to not be "shocked" by something like this and if they were they were shocked they all should fired immediately.

In a normal (non-lockout) year, they would have known months earlier in mini-camps. But this year it was impossible to evaluate the players in person before the beginning of training camp.

I'm assuming that... had the Orton trade gone through, they would simply have acquired another FA QB once they realized Tebow isn't ready. Or they'd have started Quinn.

OABB
09-14-2011, 05:32 PM
In a normal (non-lockout) year, they would have known months earlier in mini-camps. But this year it was impossible to evaluate the players in person before the beginning of training camp.

I'm assuming that... had the Orton trade gone through, they would simply have acquired another FA QB once they realized Tebow isn't ready. Or they'd have started Quinn.

Or they would have let him practice with the first team until he improved.

I mean, that's what you do with a promising young qb who has outperformed your starter right?


amiright?



Oh yeah I forgot.....idiots

baja
09-14-2011, 05:33 PM
<b>In a normal (non-lockout) year, they would have known months earlier in mini-camps. But this year it was impossible to evaluate the players in person before the beginning of training camp. </b>

I'm assuming that... had the Orton trade gone through, they would simply have acquired another FA QB once they realized Tebow isn't ready. Or they'd have started Quinn.

Fine than don't shop your only starting quality QB that knows the offense 1 month before the season starts.

I'm not going to even address your assumption in your second paragraph.

baja
09-14-2011, 05:36 PM
I am surprised more of you don't find the shopping of Orton an incredibly irresponsible move. Worse that anything McD ever did with the exception of spy gate.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:37 PM
You're free to think what you will (explain it any way you'd like). :)

This comment was made toward MagicHef.... but applies to The Rev, Baja, and OABB too.

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 05:39 PM
I am surprised more of you don't find the shopping of Orton an incredibly irresponsible move. Worse that anything McD ever did with the exception of spy gate.

I daresay "shopping Cutler" was a whole lot worse than "shopping Orton". Yeah, it's fashionable here on the Mane to never say a kind word about Cutler, but he's clearly a better/more talented QB than Orton.

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 05:42 PM
You're free to think what you will (explain it any way you'd like). :)

I think they got bullied by Orton into not trading him. Why he is starting makes no sense to me. None. Why he never had to face any competition after leading the Broncos to a 3-10 record ( the worst record in team history ) last year is truly mystifying. I honestly have no explanation for it, the only thing that makes a sliver of sense as to why he was handed the job without having to fight for it is MUG's financial theory, and that scares me. A lot. So much that I'd rather just be in denial than accept it.

errand
09-14-2011, 05:57 PM
Hilarious! So anyone that thinks Orton sucks has to think Tebow is the answer.

This is what happens when you make poor assumptions.

I'm sorry but when people have tim tebow avatars and that's all they ever post is how great tim tebow is.......I'm pretty sure they are hero worshippers......

I mean we got people in here bitching about the team they claim to love.

I support whoever is on our roster.....I'll defend any player I believe is getting a bum rap......but I'd trade or cut any of them if it gets us closer to winning another Lombardi trophy ......

I cannot understand disowning the Broncos.....but then again to each their own

Blueflame
09-14-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm sorry but when people have tim tebow avatars and that's all they ever post is how great tim tebow is.......I'm pretty sure they are hero worshippers......

I mean we got people in here b****ing about the team they claim to love.

I support whoever is on our roster.....I'll defend any player I believe is getting a bum rap......but I'd trade or cut any of them if it gets us closer to winning another Lombardi trophy ......

I cannot understand disowning the Broncos.....but then again to each their own

The part that appalls me is when John Elway is dissed on a Broncos message board... the man who's done arguably more for the Denver Broncos franchise than any individual in team history. That take should be a lot more unpopular around here than it is today.

TheReverend
09-14-2011, 06:05 PM
He asked for my "take"... and it was made clear this is "my opinion" of what happened to change Orton from being "expendable" to being "the guy". If you have a different take, I'd love to hear it.

As for Tebow not looking good early in camp, please review one of the many training camp report threads.

108 QB rating. That's my "take".

baja
09-14-2011, 06:05 PM
I daresay "shopping Cutler" was a whole lot worse than "shopping Orton". Yeah, it's fashionable here on the Mane to never say a kind word about Cutler, but he's clearly a better/more talented QB than Orton.

If we traded Cutler for Orton straight up up would have a point, but we didn't.

baja
09-14-2011, 06:07 PM
The part that appalls me is when John Elway is dissed on a Broncos message board... the man who's done arguably more for the Denver Broncos franchise than any individual in team history. That take should be a lot more unpopular around here than it is today.

Ya well he doesn't wear a helmet anymore and so far he doesn't look good in his new position.

baja
09-14-2011, 06:08 PM
Maybe Elway is "not ready to start" either.

errand
09-14-2011, 06:46 PM
I daresay "shopping Cutler" was a whole lot worse than "shopping Orton". Yeah, it's fashionable here on the Mane to never say a kind word about Cutler, but he's clearly a better/more talented QB than Orton.

Exactly ........I don't think anybody ever disputed jay cutler's talent...... his physical skills were immense compared to orton's........ I think people just got tired of his spoiled brat attitude and his turnovers.

jhns
09-14-2011, 08:09 PM
The part that appalls me is when John Elway is dissed on a Broncos message board... the man who's done arguably more for the Denver Broncos franchise than any individual in team history. That take should be a lot more unpopular around here than it is today.

I agree with this post. Elway is not responsible for this at all. Only McDaniels can be blamed for this mess.

Que
09-14-2011, 09:58 PM
I'm sorry but when people have tim tebow avatars and that's all they ever post is how great tim tebow is.......I'm pretty sure they are hero worshippers......

I mean we got people in here b****ing about the team they claim to love.

I support whoever is on our roster.....I'll defend any player I believe is getting a bum rap......but I'd trade or cut any of them if it gets us closer to winning another Lombardi trophy ......

I cannot understand disowning the Broncos.....but then again to each their own

You gotta get over the avatar thing dude and judge people by what they say.

I hear you on the rest. But as the speaker of ill/OP you should just realize that when a guy like me hits the wall then ya, it is that bad.

theAPAOps5
09-14-2011, 10:02 PM
Can't believe this hasn't been posted yet......

http://rockthewristband.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/brady-quinn-2.jpg

Now I'm Done!!!

MagicHef
09-14-2011, 11:26 PM
I agree with this post. Elway is not responsible for this at all. Only McDaniels can be blamed for this mess.

I think Bowlen/Ellis/Xanders have plenty of blame to share in this as well.

fontaine
09-15-2011, 02:12 AM
I just don't understand how that decision can be made without any sort of competition, especially when the guy who they decide on lead the team to a 3-10 record last year, and was apparently so important to the team that they were just trying to get rid of him.

I think there may have been some level of competition but Fox and the staff probably decided that it's Orton's job to lose since he's the vet and on paper a safer bet than Quinn/Tebow.

In the preseason that was fine, but as Orton has already shown he's more than capable of aptly demonstrating his ineffectiveness. Fox will give him a couple more chances to be sure but the switch will happen sooner or later.

fontaine
09-15-2011, 02:15 AM
Yikes. You are obviously having trouble understanding my point. I'll spell it out again, but if you don't get it this time, maybe ask for clarification rather than responding to... I don't even know what.

At one point, the FO was trying to trade Orton. At this point, they obviously felt that he was not a necessary part of the team.

At a later point, the FO decided that there was not any need for a QB competition, giving Orton every snap with the starters in training camp and the preseason games (except for when he was away at the birth of his daughter). At this point, they obviously felt that he was an invaluable part of the team.

What happened that changed their minds? It wasn't anything that happened in camp, because the decision had already been made by the time camp started.

This has already been addressed.

You think Xanders/Elway decided Orton was going to start after the trade fell through?

The FO don't decide who starts/sits etc.

Xanders makes no football related decisions on the field. We already know that. Elway probably had some input on it but it was John Fox (and his staff) that make the decision who starts/who doesn't.

And THAT'S the way it should be.

fontaine
09-15-2011, 02:26 AM
You don't think the smart (really only) move was to wait to see what they had BEFORE they shopped Orton. To me this screams BAD MANAGEMENT.

No it really doesn't.

I could be wrong but from what I see is that Fox was brought in to handle the coaching decisions.

Elways/Xanders handle the FO/personnel/contracts etc decisions.

No doubt that they share decisions at times, but this IS the way we/Bowlen/the organisation wanted it going back to when McDaniels was hired: That the HC wouldn't have all the power.

Except when McD was hired, we didn't count on Xanders being a complete yes boy who wouldn't question his decisions from making stupid trades to hiring/firing staff.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 03:55 AM
This has already been addressed.

You think Xanders/Elway decided Orton was going to start after the trade fell through?

The FO don't decide who starts/sits etc.

Xanders makes no football related decisions on the field. We already know that. Elway probably had some input on it but it was John Fox (and his staff) that make the decision who starts/who doesn't.

And THAT'S the way it should be.

Yes it has already been addressed. When the Orton trade went through his contract and the escalators in Tebow and Quinn's contracts dictated who would start. It wasn't decided on the field. They just decided that they didn't want to pay Orton his contract and Tebow or Quinn their escalators. It's really very simple.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 03:58 AM
The part that appalls me is when John Elway is dissed on a Broncos message board... the man who's done arguably more for the Denver Broncos franchise than any individual in team history. That take should be a lot more unpopular around here than it is today.

He's not playing for us anymore. Not sure why his career as a player should mean anything in his current job (a job he is completely unqualified for mind you).

fontaine
09-15-2011, 04:08 AM
Yes it has already been addressed. When the Orton trade went through his contract and the escalators in Tebow and Quinn's contracts dictated who would start. It wasn't decided on the field. They just decided that they didn't want to pay Orton his contract and Tebow or Quinn their escalators. It's really very simple.

If it purely comes down to money then why are Beadles/Walton/Moreno/Ayers starting or getting significant playing time as former high round picks they also have incentives built in?

Why rush back D Thomas on the active roster who as a first round pick also has built in escalators/playing time incentives?

Why pay/fire McD and end up paying the salaries of Shanahan/McD and Fox this season?

If money is the only thing stopping Tebow from being the starting QB then why not renagotiate his contract and cut down on those incentive based escalators.

Hell, we all know Tebow wants to start and knowing the kind of competitive player he is he'll be at least open to renagotiations. There was no such attempt made in the offseason or at any time for his contract.

And I don't rule that out either. At some stage this season, Tebow is going to play, either because Orton can't stay healthy or he remains incompetent and if the FO/Bowlen are really concerned about Tebow's contract when he starts then they could still renagotiate it.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 04:20 AM
If it purely comes down to money then why are Beadles/Walton/Moreno/Ayers starting or getting significant playing time as former high round picks they also have incentives built in?

Why rush back D Thomas on the active roster who as a first round pick also has built in escalators/playing time incentives?

Why pay/fire McD and end up paying the salaries of Shanahan/McD and Fox this season?

If money is the only thing stopping Tebow from being the starting QB then why not renagotiate his contract and cut down on those incentive based escalators.

Hell, we all know Tebow wants to start and knowing the kind of competitive player he is he'll be at least open to renagotiations. There was no such attempt made in the offseason or at any time for his contract.

And I don't rule that out either. At some stage this season, Tebow is going to play, either because Orton can't stay healthy or he remains incompetent and if the FO/Bowlen are really concerned about Tebow's contract when he starts then they could still renagotiate it.

None of those situations are analogous. They have to pay Orton his contract no matter what. There are no pricey players that would keep any of the people you mentioned off the field. Completely different situations.

And if you doubt that we are trying to play on a budget just look at our salary cap and the fact that we signed almost no meaningful free agents. It's pretty obvious when put in context. We don't want to spend any more money than we absolutely have to.

Oh and the player's union would never stand for a player being basically forced to renegotiate their rookie contract to get on the field. And I really don't think Tebow would do it anyway. Tebow's a nice guy, but that would make him a b****. I don't get the impression he's a b****.

fontaine
09-15-2011, 04:40 AM
None of those situations are analogous. They have to pay Orton his contract no matter what. There are no pricey players that would keep any of the people you mentioned off the field. Completely different situations.

And if you doubt that we are trying to play on a budget just look at our salary cap and the fact that we signed almost no meaningful free agents. It's pretty obvious when put in context. We don't want to spend any more money than we absolutely have to.


That's fair enough, but that's pretty much the way most of the league operates in not wanting to over pay for free agents and spending money for the sake of it.

Oh and the player's union would never stand for a player being basically forced to renegotiate their rookie contract to get on the field. And I really don't think Tebow would do it anyway. Tebow's a nice guy, but that would make him a b****. I don't get the impression he's a b****.

Player's contracts get renegotiated all the time. Even the players know that if they're due a $7million roster bonus next year, they're not going to see it and it will be worked out/renegotiated.

Especially now with rookie wage scale/signing bonuses being changed, there is NOTHING stopping the Broncos from approaching Tebow for renegotiations. I'm not saying he should do it, will do it, won't do it.

I'm saying that even the attempt to renegotiate hasn't been made from the FO, and we're expected to believe that he's not starting because they don't want to honor the escalators in his contract?

That makes no sense.

Bigdawg26
09-15-2011, 08:30 AM
It's crazy how many people are jumping ship and cursing the team after one game! What did you expect that all of a sudden because Elway took control of the team he can convert one of the worst teams in the league with hardly any talent into a superbowl contender in one year? McDaniels completely F'up this team with bad pick after bad pick, traded away our young talented players and gets OLD washed up or patriot back-ups, and drives away every good coach because they wouldn't kiss his @ss! Then comes Elway who hires a good coach, and let's a GM actually be involved instead of being the scape goat of every bad decision. They are trying to get this team fixed but I mean there's only one draft, and one FA period (what good free agent wants to play for a bad team) a year! They brought in some talented guys in the first year like Von Miller, Rahim Moore, Ty Warren, Bunkley, and Nate Irving (who I think would have been the starter if he were healthy in camp and preseason) to build on, but it takes time. Besides give these guys a break it's only one game. It hasn't even been a full season yet!

baja
09-15-2011, 09:04 AM
No it really doesn't.

I could be wrong but from what I see is that Fox was brought in to handle the coaching decisions.

Elways/Xanders handle the FO/personnel/contracts etc decisions.

No doubt that they share decisions at times, but this IS the way we/Bowlen/the organisation wanted it going back to when McDaniels was hired: That the HC wouldn't have all the power.

Except when McD was hired, we didn't count on Xanders being a complete yes boy who wouldn't question his decisions from making stupid trades to hiring/firing staff.

Yes I agree, when I say BAD MANAGEMENT I mean all of them.


Ask yourself this;

If Xanders were to be let go how many teams do you think would be knocking on his door to hire him?

Say Elway was available how many teams would seek him for the same job in their organization?

Let's say Fox gets canned would there be a line up of teams looking to hire him?

We have become a below average team from ownership on down.

I blame Bowlen and that is hard to fix.

Meck77
09-15-2011, 09:16 AM
It's crazy how many people are jumping ship and cursing the team after one game!!

BigDawg let me explain something since you are pretty new here. It doesn't matter if the team is doing good or bad for people to be dramatic here.

When we were winning with Jake Plummer they bitched every week that we were "winning ugly". The old posters around here remember that. These posters had an absolutely MISERABLE season while those of us attended the games had the times of our lives!

I chalk it up to the internet. When you go to a game you invest your time and money into the event. It's a great feeling when you win and even tougher time when you lose. With the internet anyone around the globe can jump on her and start spewing ****.

"I'm not longer a Bronco fan!!! wahh whaa That loss was so painful I'm done!". Yeah sure buddy. It was real difficult for you to sit on your couch, knock back 12 beers, kick your dog, and turn your TV off.

Well anyway *turning the dial back to OrangeMane Soap Opera channel*

2KBack
09-15-2011, 09:56 AM
BigDawg let me explain something since you are pretty new here. It doesn't matter if the team is doing good or bad for people to be dramatic here.

When we were winning with Jake Plummer they b****ed every week that we were "winning ugly". The old posters around here remember that. These posters had an absolutely MISERABLE season while those of us attended the games had the times of our lives!

I chalk it up to the internet. When you go to a game you invest your time and money into the event. It's a great feeling when you win and even tougher time when you lose. With the internet anyone around the globe can jump on her and start spewing ****.

"I'm not longer a Bronco fan!!! wahh whaa That loss was so painful I'm done!". Yeah sure buddy. It was real difficult for you to sit on your couch, knock back 12 beers, kick your dog, and turn your TV off.

Well anyway *turning the dial back to OrangeMane Soap Opera channel*


Yep. I remember the phrase, "who do we blame the win on this week?"

Br0nc0Buster
09-15-2011, 11:01 AM
It's crazy how many people are jumping ship and cursing the team after one game! What did you expect that all of a sudden because Elway took control of the team he can convert one of the worst teams in the league with hardly any talent into a superbowl contender in one year? McDaniels completely F'up this team with bad pick after bad pick, traded away our young talented players and gets OLD washed up or patriot back-ups, and drives away every good coach because they wouldn't kiss his @ss! Then comes Elway who hires a good coach, and let's a GM actually be involved instead of being the scape goat of every bad decision. They are trying to get this team fixed but I mean there's only one draft, and one FA period (what good free agent wants to play for a bad team) a year! They brought in some talented guys in the first year like Von Miller, Rahim Moore, Ty Warren, Bunkley, and Nate Irving (who I think would have been the starter if he were healthy in camp and preseason) to build on, but it takes time. Besides give these guys a break it's only one game. It hasn't even been a full season yet!

Pretty much
I figured the way things were going and this more conservative approach the FO has been taking would be appreciated by many fans given the way McDaniels traded away so many players and picks

but instead just more complaining about not drafting specific positions or not signing certain FAs

I guess my opinion is when you are this devoid of talent, you need to get the best players you can. The team is not going to get fixed in one offseason, we are not in a position to draft for need when the majority of our roster could be upgraded

The quality of our drafting is going to determine the long term success of our team, not the number of free agents we sign

of course this process takes time, but I was not seeing this as a playoff team this year anyways

Also as echoed by Meck, I was at the game and did enjoy it even though the result was dissapointing
I checked the Mane a couple times after the game on my phone and just laughed at all the drama queens

DrFate
09-15-2011, 11:32 AM
And no, this isn't a I'm Leaving the Mane post. I am just done forking over money or eyeballs to this sorry disgrace of a management team.

Enjoy your fishing trip!

I've refused to order Sunday Ticket until this team gets fixed (even though the wife has offered to foot the bill). I've refused to buy an tshirts, hats or jerseys. Nothing with an orange/blue horse head is getting purchased with my money until this franchise is no longer a laughing stock. I'll still watch the network games (like staying up until nearly 2AM watching that uninspired performance on Monday), I'll follow the games online. I'll continue to drink from my Broncos Tervis Tumbler and sit in my Broncos folding chair (the one I got before they changed the logo).

But they aren't getting another dime until they get this team back on track. I don't have any input into which players get on the field or which ones get drafted. But I DO have a choice about where I spend my money.