PDA

View Full Version : Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes!


Mediator12
09-13-2011, 06:52 AM
I know this place is about to go to blame mode central with the usual cast of characters, but this game was a simple rivalry game gone bad that increased the level of mistakes DEN made in all three phases of the game. OAK sure made more than enough to let DEN take advantage of them, but somehow DEN made just as many or more. Here is what I saw yesterday before the game:

Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes.

There was some real solid football played THU, but yesterday was about losing teams making critical errors with the game on the line. I just finished watching about 80% of the games on shortcuts and taking notes and the teams who lost gave games away, they did not have teams take it from them.

I think playing at home, playing conservatively on offense, and having a revised defensive scheme should benefit DEN tonight. Unless they hand this game to the Raiders, like KC did to BUF yesterday, its a close game. We all KNOW OAK will make a bunch of errors, but Will DEN turn those into TD's or suck in the red Zone again?

Well the answer to that is:No they made bigger errors!

No predictions, this is rivalry game and no rules apply. However, I like our chances with the way the Raiders have looked with mistakes, attrition, and a stupid mentality ;D

This game was bad, but it is fixable to some extent. Both teams quit playing football and were playing playground ball. DEN took the bait and for some reason stopped run blitzing. They looked like they had a new Defense, they looked horrible on the OL run blocking, and they played with a chip on their shoulder the wrong way.

The blame is solely on the team losing its cool, getting drawn into the raiders ineptitude, and not having an OL or DL worth a damn.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 06:56 AM
Denver's MVP was the Raiders for beating themselves and handing Denver a win on multiple occasions.

The Raiders' MVP was the Broncos for refusing to take the win.

TonyR
09-13-2011, 06:56 AM
...they looked horrible on the OL run blocking...

...and not having an OL or DL worth a damn...

These are the main things I saw. Most people apparently only noticed Kyle Orton.

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 07:03 AM
Denver's MVP was the Raiders for beating themselves and handing Denver a win on multiple occasions.

The Raiders' MVP was the Broncos for refusing to take the win.

DEN got drawn into the old 1980's raiders BS and forgot they suck at that! It was, exactly what I thought it would be. Ugly, but the degree of ugly it went to was playground ball ugly. DEN allowed themselves to stop playing football and playing on raw emotion. Not a strength and I am definitely not a fan.

They lost the game upstairs in their heads. They lost their mentality. I hate weak ass minded players. Well, the OL showed their resolve last night. Plus, the Raiders DL is power based and they used poor footing on DEN's OL to just Bull rush the hell out of those guys. When they finally went from power to speed the OL could not handle it at all....

DEN just lost sight of winning and started caring about not getting pushed around. Bad, bad coaching and even worse veteran leadership IMHO!

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 07:14 AM
The Raiders had something like 22 penalties called against them. Gave the Broncos 6 First Downs. Extended drives even when we put ourselves in 3rd and Never situations.

Here is a play that epitomizes what most Broncos fans see and why they are sick of Orton. When Moreno took the screen down to the 6 yard line there was absolutlely no confidence that we would actually score a TD. When the announcers were talking about Moreno being smart for covering up the ball and not worrying about the TD, I thought I wish he would have just sold out going for the endzone... Of course Orton threw a horrible ball and took another sack. Orton makes the OL look a lot worse than they are.

Ray Finkle
09-13-2011, 07:15 AM
DEN got drawn into the old 1980's raiders BS and forgot they suck at that! It was, exactly what I thought it would be. Ugly, but the degree of ugly it went to was playground ball ugly. DEN allowed themselves to stop playing football and playing on raw emotion. Not a strength and I am definitely not a fan.

They lost the game upstairs in their heads. They lost their mentality. I hate weak ass minded players. Well, the OL showed their resolve last night. Plus, the Raiders DL is power based and they used poor footing on DEN's OL to just Bull rush the hell out of those guys. When they finally went from power to speed the OL could not handle it at all....

DEN just lost sight of winning and started caring about not getting pushed around. Bad, bad coaching and even worse veteran leadership IMHO!

After the last few years and last nights game, I have little hope for this team in the future....

TonyR
09-13-2011, 07:17 AM
Orton makes the OL look a lot worse than they are.

And vice versa. It really does go both ways. We can replace Orton with Tebow but unfortunately we can't replace that offensive line so easily...

jhns
09-13-2011, 07:20 AM
The defense has improved a lot, even with the stupid penalties and mistakes. The offense is definately a work in progress. Fox should get some time to build his team but I may start thinking otherwise if they play that sloppy all year.

Ray Finkle
09-13-2011, 07:24 AM
And vice versa. It really does go both ways. We can replace Orton with Tebow but unfortunately we can't replace that offensive line so easily...

at least a mobile QB can create yards with his legs. I lost all confidence in Orton being a starter after the drop, it wasn't a fumble, numbnutz just dropped the ball.

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 07:28 AM
DEN got drawn into the old 1980's raiders BS and forgot they suck at that! It was, exactly what I thought it would be. Ugly, but the degree of ugly it went to was playground ball ugly. DEN allowed themselves to stop playing football and playing on raw emotion. Not a strength and I am definitely not a fan.

They lost the game upstairs in their heads. They lost their mentality. I hate weak ass minded players. Well, the OL showed their resolve last night. Plus, the Raiders DL is power based and they used poor footing on DEN's OL to just Bull rush the hell out of those guys. When they finally went from power to speed the OL could not handle it at all....

DEN just lost sight of winning and started caring about not getting pushed around. Bad, bad coaching and even worse veteran leadership IMHO!

Not that I disagree with anything you're saying... but we were given so many opportunities last night and as usual Orton couldn't take advantage. He is incredibly weak in the redzone. And per his normal MO, he didn't make plays until it was too late.

When you watch the tape again let me know what you think about the Raiders Pass Pro vs Von Miller. I recall at least three times where he was hooked and tackled and it was never called once. Franklin does something similar to Wimbley and the flag flies. Very inconsistent officiating (over officiating at many points) but if that is the way things are going to go for Von Miller then he is going to need to develop an inside move b/c they wrapped his speed dip up all night long.

strafen
09-13-2011, 07:35 AM
These are the main things I saw. Most people apparently only noticed Kyle Orton.What's your assessment on Orton's performance last night.
Tell us something we may have missed...

Ray Finkle
09-13-2011, 07:38 AM
What's your assessment on Orton's performance last night.
Tell us something we may have missed...

he throws a great ball while crapping his pants....

fontaine
09-13-2011, 07:42 AM
Sorry, but what's the point of this thread?

That teams that lost badly last year and have an entirely new coaching staff and huge roster turnover make mistakes?

Thanks Med, but that's nothing new. We can't replace the OL/DL with better players because we don't have any.

The reason why the QB situation is in focus isn't because people are saying it's ALL Orton's fault, but because even Tebow can play better than the limited, mistake prone QB play we got from Orton.

It's strictly replacing a limited player with someone else from the bench who can immediately upgrade:

1. the mobility
2. red zone threat
3. and long ball of the passing game

I'd take Tebow's flaws over Orton's piss poor, mistake prone, gutless play last nite any day of the week.

If we had some potentially great DL/OL/MLB just sitting on the bench, then sure bring them on also. The FACT is we don't so nobody is going to go on about Walton/Beadles/Vickerson/Mays sucking, because the guys behind them suck even more.

Understand?

TonyR
09-13-2011, 07:57 AM
What's your assessment on Orton's performance last night.
Tell us something we may have missed...

He wasn't, and isn't, good enough. But neither was/is our O-line, D-line, and RB position, just to name a few. If it makes you feel better to put all the blame on one guy have at it.

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 08:03 AM
John Fox on the play of Kyle Orton:

“All and all, like all of us, it probably wasn’t good enough.”

Fox on Orton‘s fumble where the ball slipped from his hand:

“That was a pivotal play, no doubt.”

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 08:14 AM
He wasn't, and isn't, good enough. But neither was/is our O-line, D-line, and RB position, just to name a few. If it makes you feel better to put all the blame on one guy have at it.

DL really didn't play that bad. A lot of times their plays are designed to just crash into a gap and let the LB fill in the backside.

Well... turns out our LBs suck (aside from a valiant effort by lil Wesley) and can't do that and we gave up a ton of ground to draws thanks to our awesome 52 defense Miller scheme.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 08:14 AM
John Fox on the play of Kyle Orton:

“All and all, like all of us, it probably wasn’t good enough.”

Fox on Orton‘s fumble where the ball slipped from his hand:

“That was a pivotal play, no doubt.”

omfg

TheDave
09-13-2011, 08:15 AM
Yes there were mistakes everywhere...

But IMO, the title of this thread should be talent, talent, talent.

Follow me on this crappy little journey... Between 2000 and 2005 Shanahan drafted worse than I thought humanly possible. Then he rights a whole lot of wrongs with an inhuman 2006 draft... followed by a typical 2007 & 08. Yes, Shanahan sucked at drafting this century.

Enter McD... he takes 2006's moment of genius and trades most of it away for studs like Knowshon, Ayers, Smith, Beadles, and Walton. I know people hate this game, but if Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler are on this offense we do a lot better than 10 pts.

The point of all this... we are lacking the talent to compete almost everywhere. Sure our players lost their cool and committed stupid mistakes, but that frustration was born out of the fact that they were physically getting their ass handed to them play after play.

Right now, we do not have the talent to compete... Especially in the trenches and especially against a talented Oak D-Line.

P.S. Just to be a complete downer. As bad as I think we are, I still don't think we are bad enough to compete for the #1 pick. Oh we will be in the top 10 so Landry and Barkley are possibilities, but the "suck for luck" motto is going to fall short.

Gort
09-13-2011, 08:21 AM
Denver's MVP was the Raiders for beating themselves and handing Denver a win on multiple occasions.

The Raiders' MVP was the Broncos for refusing to take the win.

what made the game even worse, was Dilfer's commentary all night long. he took a bad game and made it unbearable. i'm pretty sure he must get a royalty on every remote control manufactured with a MUTE button. ESPN is really awful at doing NFL games. thank God this is our only monday night appearance this year... it is our only appearance, right?

Archer81
09-13-2011, 08:24 AM
Yes there were mistakes everywhere...

But IMO, the title of this thread should be talent, talent, talent.

Follow me on this crappy little journey... Between 2000 and 2005 Shanahan drafted worse than I thought humanly possible. Then he rights a whole lot of wrongs with an inhuman 2006 draft... followed by a typical 2007 & 08. Yes, Shanahan sucked at drafting this century.

Enter McD... he takes 2006's moment of genius and trades most of it away for studs like Knowshon, Ayers, Smith, Beadles, and Walton. I know people hate this game, but if Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler are on this offense we do a lot better than 10 pts.

The point of all this... we are lacking the talent to compete almost everywhere. Sure our players lost their cool and committed stupid mistakes, but that frustration was born out of the fact that they were physically getting their ass handed to them play after play.

Right now, we do not have the talent to compete... Especially in the trenches and especially against a talented Oak D-Line.

P.S. Just to be a complete downer. As bad as I think we are, I still don't think we are bad enough to compete for the #1 pick. Oh we will be in the top 10 so Landry and Barkley are possibilities, but the "suck for luck" motto is going to fall short.

...with Orton as our QB we have no idea what the rest of the offense is capable of. We know what the floor is...no idea about the ceiling.

:Broncos:

Archer81
09-13-2011, 08:25 AM
what made the game even worse, was Dilfer's commentary all night long. he took a bad game and made it unbearable. i'm pretty sure he must get a royalty on every remote control manufactured with a MUTE button. ESPN is really awful at doing NFL games. thank God this is our only monday night appearance this year... it is our only appearance, right?


His waxing poetic about reese was almost Hillisian in scope.


:Broncos:

jhns
09-13-2011, 08:26 AM
what made the game even worse, was Dilfer's commentary all night long. he took a bad game and made it unbearable. i'm pretty sure he must get a royalty on every remote control manufactured with a MUTE button. ESPN is really awful at doing NFL games. thank God this is our only monday night appearance this year... it is our only appearance, right?

This. I had to turn on some music it was so bad. Probably the worst I have ever heard.

fontaine
09-13-2011, 08:26 AM
Yes there were mistakes everywhere...

But IMO, the title of this thread should be talent, talent, talent.

Follow me on this crappy little journey... Between 2000 and 2005 Shanahan drafted worse than I thought humanly possible. Then he rights a whole lot of wrongs with an inhuman 2006 draft... followed by a typical 2007 & 08. Yes, Shanahan sucked at drafting this century.

Enter McD... he takes 2006's moment of genius and trades most of it away for studs like Knowshon, Ayers, Smith, Beadles, and Walton. I know people hate this game, but if Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler are on this offense we do a lot better than 10 pts.

The point of all this... we are lacking the talent to compete almost everywhere. Sure our players lost their cool and committed stupid mistakes, but that frustration was born out of the fact that they were physically getting their ass handed to them play after play.

Right now, we do not have the talent to compete... Especially in the trenches and especially against a talented Oak D-Line.

P.S. Just to be a complete downer. As bad as I think we are, I still don't think we are bad enough to compete for the #1 pick. Oh we will be in the top 10 so Landry and Barkley are possibilities, but the "suck for luck" motto is going to fall short.

Most teams aren't stacked with offensive talent.

You just need talent at the right positions like QB, LT, WR, RB.

We've got it at LT, WR but our starting QB is playinig like a rookie.

THAT'S why I've changed my mind about Orton (and pretty soon Fox will too). Nothing personal against Orton, but if a veteran QB plays like a rookie then might as well insert a far more physically talented Tebow in the starting line up.

Never mind the complete lack of mobility, throwing the ball away, the red zone incompetence, holding on to the damn ball too long and all of that. In the very least if you're veteran QB is throwing interceptions/coughing up the ball untouched then . . . he's . . . not really. . . a veteran QB.

Time for Tebow.

ColoradoBuff
09-13-2011, 08:27 AM
surprised there is no talk of Joe Mays here. Guy flat out sux! Guy should not be starting. I was totally embarrassed by his play! get him out of here!

Gort
09-13-2011, 08:32 AM
His waxing poetic about reese was almost Hillisian in scope.


:Broncos:

i can almost imagine how the game prep went for Dilfer this week.

ESPN Producer: "Hey Trent, you're doing the Raiders game on Monday night".
Dilfer: "Cool. Who are the Raiders playing again?"
ESPN Producer: "Doesn't matter. Here are the game tapes for the Raiders from last year and this year's pre-season. Watch them all and take notes."
Dilfer: "Ok."
ESPN Producer: "Oh, one last thing. Do not allow there to be even 1 second of dead air. The moment you think that dead air is about to happen, just raise your voice and say whatever stupid **** comes into your head, ok?"
Dilfer: "Sure thing boss."

Archer81
09-13-2011, 08:39 AM
i can almost imagine how the game prep went for Dilfer this week.

ESPN Producer: "Hey Trent, you're doing the Raiders game on Monday night".
Dilfer: "Cool. Who are the Raiders playing again?"
ESPN Producer: "Doesn't matter. Here are the game tapes for the Raiders from last year and this year's pre-season. Watch them all and take notes."
Dilfer: "Ok."
ESPN Producer: "Oh, one last thing. Do not allow there to be even 1 second of dead air. The moment you think that dead air is about to happen, just raise your voice and say whatever stupid **** comes into your head, ok?"
Dilfer: "Sure thing boss."


The other announcer was not exactly better. "I did my homework for this game...Franklin, a 6'7 340 pound mauler"...at the same time they show Franklin to be 6'5 316. Yeah...thanks, ESPiN.

The chart topper was Dilfer questioning the intelligence of the Broncos fanbase for daring to boo Orton. "This is a stats and fantasy driven fanbase, all they look at is stats..." no, Trent. They are booiing 33 games of this bull****.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 08:42 AM
Yes there were mistakes everywhere...

But IMO, the title of this thread should be talent, talent, talent.

Follow me on this crappy little journey... Between 2000 and 2005 Shanahan drafted worse than I thought humanly possible. Then he rights a whole lot of wrongs with an inhuman 2006 draft... followed by a typical 2007 & 08. Yes, Shanahan sucked at drafting this century.

Enter McD... he takes 2006's moment of genius and trades most of it away for studs like Knowshon, Ayers, Smith, Beadles, and Walton. I know people hate this game, but if Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler are on this offense we do a lot better than 10 pts.

The point of all this... we are lacking the talent to compete almost everywhere. Sure our players lost their cool and committed stupid mistakes, but that frustration was born out of the fact that they were physically getting their ass handed to them play after play.

Right now, we do not have the talent to compete... Especially in the trenches and especially against a talented Oak D-Line.

P.S. Just to be a complete downer. As bad as I think we are, I still don't think we are bad enough to compete for the #1 pick. Oh we will be in the top 10 so Landry and Barkley are possibilities, but the "suck for luck" motto is going to fall short.

Yeah... the 08 draft netted 5-6 starters, sooooooooo not sure where you're getting that from.

vonqkilla
09-13-2011, 08:42 AM
Orton quit on so many plays, him scrambling is like watching ray charles juggle.

Gort
09-13-2011, 08:45 AM
Orton quit on so many plays, him scrambling is like watching ray charles juggle.

ha ha. not bad.

however, i'm 100% certain that watching Ray Charles trying to juggle would be more entertaining than watching Orton trying to scramble.

:)

TheDave
09-13-2011, 08:47 AM
Yeah... the 08 draft netted 5-6 starters, sooooooooo not sure where you're getting that from.

Yeah I corrected that in the other thread... But thanks for running around and picking out my one mistake ;D

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 08:49 AM
Yeah I corrected that in the other thread... But thanks for running around and picking out my one mistake ;D

I'm here for YOU :)

TheDave
09-13-2011, 08:57 AM
Folks, change the QB all you want. I'm fine with it, I think just about everyone is.

But if this line plays like they did last night we are in for a world of hurt regardless of who is throwing the ball.

jhns
09-13-2011, 08:59 AM
Folks, change the QB all you want. I'm fine with it, I think just about everyone is.

But if this line plays like they did last night we are in for a world of hurt regardless of who is throwing the ball.

Tebow did pretty good last season under these same conditions. In fact, he did seventh best offense in the league good.

The pass blocking wasn't that bad though. Orton had room to move in the pociet most of the night. The guy just doesn't know how to work a pocket. Sure he didn't have much time when they blitzed multiple guys. No QB does. Good ones make the defense pay for sending those extra guys though.

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:02 AM
at least a mobile QB can create yards with his legs. I lost all confidence in Orton being a starter after the drop, it wasn't a fumble, numbnutz just dropped the ball.

I'm curious as to how many QB's throughout time have had this happen to them?

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 09:04 AM
Sorry, but what's the point of this thread?

That teams that lost badly last year and have an entirely new coaching staff and huge roster turnover make mistakes?

Thanks Med, but that's nothing new. We can't replace the OL/DL with better players because we don't have any.

The reason why the QB situation is in focus isn't because people are saying it's ALL Orton's fault, but because even Tebow can play better than the limited, mistake prone QB play we got from Orton.

It's strictly replacing a limited player with someone else from the bench who can immediately upgrade:

1. the mobility
2. red zone threat
3. and long ball of the passing game

I'd take Tebow's flaws over Orton's piss poor, mistake prone, gutless play last nite any day of the week.

If we had some potentially great DL/OL/MLB just sitting on the bench, then sure bring them on also. The FACT is we don't so nobody is going to go on about Walton/Beadles/Vickerson/Mays sucking, because the guys behind them suck even more.

Understand?

The point of this thread is that people like you, who I used to think had a lick of sense, are going to overreact. Neither team played decent football, but you want to focus on Orton. The teams played awful, but YOU want to focus on Orton.

Go join any of the Orton sucks threads and stay out of the actually what happened thread with your pathetic emotional overreaction.

That is the point of the thread.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-13-2011, 09:04 AM
I'm curious as to how many QB's throughout time have had this happen to them?

Im sure a lot, I remember Elway did it in the..hmm 93 or 94 opener against SD. Obviously cutler did it too. But this game was supposed to be proof that Orton was the best man for the job. He was crap all night, finally was putting together a nice drive, and then just drops the ball instead of lofting it up to his wide open TE.

His play was horrible and a lot of the blame goes to him. That play was a huge momentum changer

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:07 AM
Im sure a lot, I remember Elway did it in the..hmm 93 or 94 opener against SD. Obviously cutler did it too. But this game was supposed to be proof that Orton was the best man for the job. He was crap all night, finally was putting together a nice drive, and then just drops the ball instead of lofting it up to his wide open TE.

His play was horrible and a lot of the blame goes to him. That play was a huge momentum changer

I get it but this game was lost in the trenches, as so many before, and not squarely on Orton sorry

Archer81
09-13-2011, 09:08 AM
I get it but this game was lost in the trenches, as so many before, and not squarely on Orton sorry


Two Orton turnovers = 10 Oakland points.


:Broncos:

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:10 AM
Two Orton turnovers = 10 Oakland points.


:Broncos:

No running game and the O-line getting ragdolled every play had alot to do with it and it wouldn't have mattered if Tebow was in there or not they still would have lost

Rohirrim
09-13-2011, 09:13 AM
Folks, change the QB all you want. I'm fine with it, I think just about everyone is.

But if this line plays like they did last night we are in for a world of hurt regardless of who is throwing the ball.

Exactly. Watching Orton is bad enough. Tebow would be twice the disaster that Orton is behind that line. At least Orton can occasionally hit a receiver. With the Raiders team speed, Tebow's running talents would have been a wash. I guarantee you, Knowshon is a better runner than Tebow, and he could barely get out of the backfield. This team just flat out does not have the talent to compete. You could resurrect Bill Walsh and put him in charge of this team and nothing would change. How many of these guys would take starting jobs on the Pats or GBay, for instance? Not many.

strafen
09-13-2011, 09:14 AM
He wasn't, and isn't, good enough. But neither was/is our O-line, D-line, and RB position, just to name a few. If it makes you feel better to put all the blame on one guy have at it.After WE ALL SAW what WE SAW, are you going to come here and tell us that putting all the blame on Orton's not right?
If the offense plays good, the whole team plays good.
To now say the DL was also part of our problem is ridiculous.
The defense held the raiders down as long as we could.
Had we gone up a couple scores on them, their offensive game plan it sure would have changed, don't you think?

Bottom line is, Orton is what he is.
He's not going to win for you when we're trailing, and he's not going to blow anybody out of the water, either.
He's a mediocre NFL QB collecting a paycheck while showing how inept he really is.
We've seen this before, do we need to see this **** play over, and over, and over again?
Are you freakin' kiddin' me?

Get Orton's ass out of town on a rail, please

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 09:14 AM
Two Orton turnovers = 10 Oakland points.


:Broncos:

Completely unpressured and unforced turnovers, no less.

Dude scored as much for Oakland as he did for Denver (and for Denver he needed the flag's help)

fontaine
09-13-2011, 09:14 AM
The point of this thread is that people like you, who I used to think had a lick of sense, are going to overreact. Neither team played decent football, but you want to focus on Orton. The teams played awful, but YOU want to focus on Orton.

Go join any of the Orton sucks threads and stay out of the actually what happened thread with your pathetic emotional overreaction.

That is the point of the thread.

1. I already acknowledged the main content of your OP, but you seem to miss that. Why? Here it is again:

I don't think anyone expected a Bronco's team with a new coaching staff, roster turnover, in a strike curtailed off-season to come out and play flawless football.

Did you?

So again, what's the point in discussing the obvious when it's not really going to change.

2. I'm not blaming it all on Orton, but yes I'm focussing on Orton for very valid reasons which I explained and you missed also. Why?

We don't have a better C/G/DT/MLB/RB options on the bench so how do we get better there immediately? I don't think we do. It's going to be a season long struggle.

However, I focus on Orton because WE DO have an option on the bench that can at least come in and provide better mobility/red zone options/intermediate or long ball passes than Orton.

3. Finally Orton played like he didn't give a crap. Throwing the ball away, not staying in the pocket and willing to take a hit to complete a crucial pass in the 4th quarter, so yes he quit and that's not something I've seen from Orton before.

Last night Orton played like he didn't care along with his individual mistakes, turnovers and lack of any impact or even mediocre veteran play.

Anyone else we can discuss who can come in and play better than a current starter? Unrein, McBean, the scrub backup OL we have? Lance Ball?

No, not really.

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 09:14 AM
Orton played poorly last night, but its not like he had ANY help whatsoever.

DEN had 38 yards rushing and got decimated at the POA all night long. How are you going to score in the redzone when you can not even run between the 20's ???

Again, typical fan overreaction because Tebow is not starting. Hell, even I want him to start just to shut all the people up. People here are just exasperating. Screw it.

alkemical
09-13-2011, 09:16 AM
the 2010-2011 Denver Broncos is my argument on legalizing drugs. All of them.

alkemical
09-13-2011, 09:17 AM
Orton played poorly last night, but its not like he had ANY help whatsoever.

DEN had 38 yards rushing and got decimated at the POA all night long. How are you going to score in the redzone when you can not even run between the 20's ???

Again, typical fan overreaction because Tebow is not starting. Hell, even I want him to start just to shut all the people up. People here are just exasperating. Screw it.

Right....I know man.

I.am.over.it.

Can you just post your info on a blog somewhere and tell me where to find it. It'd save me time. :D

LOL!

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 09:17 AM
Orton played poorly last night, but its not like he had ANY help whatsoever.

DEN had 38 yards rushing and got decimated at the POA all night long. How are you going to score in the redzone when you can not even run between the 20's ???

Again, typical fan overreaction because Tebow is not starting. Hell, even I want him to start just to shut all the people up. People here are just exasperating. Screw it.

He had tons of help... Decker ran a TD 90 effing yards. Miller forced a fumble in opponent territory.

And let's not forget our MVP:
















































http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0575/4742/35156_crop_340x234.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
09-13-2011, 09:17 AM
I get it but this game was lost in the trenches, as so many before, and not squarely on Orton sorry

I didnt say all the blame, but a lot for sure. Football, above all other sports, is an emotional game. And the QB is your leader. And he's supposed to make things happen and rise about your faults. People are acting like we were blown out of that game, we weren't. We had opportunities to take the lead in the game and Orton let us down when those opportunities arose. These players are human and its hard to stay motivated when your QB has a phantom fumble instead of hitting your wide open TE to take the lead. Obviously we got beat in the trenches, but despite that, we had plenty of chances.

jhns
09-13-2011, 09:19 AM
Exactly. Watching Orton is bad enough. Tebow would be twice the disaster that Orton is behind that line. At least Orton can occasionally hit a receiver. With the Raiders team speed, Tebow's running talents would have been a wash. I guarantee you, Knowshon is a better runner than Tebow, and he could barely get out of the backfield. This team just flat out does not have the talent to compete. You could resurrect Bill Walsh and put him in charge of this team and nothing would change. How many of these guys would take starting jobs on the Pats or GBay, for instance? Not many.

Umm, Tebow played this defense last year with a crap line. Nothing you claimed happened. In fact, we win last night with the same offensive production as Tebow had against them in his rookie year.

Again, this is exactly why I laugh at McFans. You all seem to hate everything that is good for this team and make excuses for the bad stuff. Pathetic.

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:19 AM
I didnt say all the blame, but a lot for sure. Football, above all other sports, is an emotional game. And the QB is your leader. And he's supposed to make things happen and rise about your faults. People are acting like we were blown out of that game, we weren't. We had opportunities to take the lead in the game and Orton let us down when those opportunities arose. These players are human and its hard to stay motivated when your QB has a phantom fumble instead of hitting your wide open TE to take the lead. Obviously we got beat in the trenches, but despite that, we had plenty of chances.

Whose to say the TE catches the ball? The recievers dropped alot last night

Archer81
09-13-2011, 09:19 AM
No running game and the O-line getting ragdolled every play had alot to do with it and it wouldn't have mattered if Tebow was in there or not they still would have lost



Yeah...I dont think this at all. Surprising, I know.

We get into the RZ three times, come away with 13 points. If Tebow is in on ONE of those 2 RZ attempts...its highly likely we get 7 instead of 3. Game completely changes.

When you have a 3rd and goal from the 3 and you have Oakland in a 3 man rush and Orton somehow runs right to Seymour it makes you wonder. Tebow would not have faced a 3 man rush because Oakland would have had to honor the possibility of a run.

...

:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
09-13-2011, 09:21 AM
Whose to say the TE catches the ball? The recievers dropped alot last night

Oh jesus christ. Really? This is your argument?

strafen
09-13-2011, 09:21 AM
I can only imagine had Tebow had that kind of performance last night. Oh my, oh my...
I just imagine...
There would have been no efforts in trying to disseminate the game to see where things may have gone wrong. I can promise you that...

fontaine
09-13-2011, 09:21 AM
Orton played poorly last night, but its not like he had ANY help whatsoever.

DEN had 38 yards rushing and got decimated at the POA all night long. How are you going to score in the redzone when you can not even run between the 20's ???

Again, typical fan overreaction because Tebow is not starting. Hell, even I want him to start just to shut all the people up. People here are just exasperating. Screw it.

You still don't get it.

THERE IS NO HELP.

We don't have a stud OL, running game. About the ONLY thing we have is a decent WR group so when Orton can't get the ball to those guys then he gives this team zero chance.

I don't care who it is, weber, quinn, tebow, just get me a QB who can spread the ball around and take his shots on deep/intermediate passes because that's the ONLY thing this offense can do, but not with Orton playing/quitting the way he did last night.

jhns
09-13-2011, 09:22 AM
Orton played poorly last night, but its not like he had ANY help whatsoever.

DEN had 38 yards rushing and got decimated at the POA all night long. How are you going to score in the redzone when you can not even run between the 20's ???

Again, typical fan overreaction because Tebow is not starting. Hell, even I want him to start just to shut all the people up. People here are just exasperating. Screw it.

He had good pass blocking. The run game sucks. Those claiming the pass blocking sucked are full of crap. The defense also played very good for the horrible positions they were put in. Last years defense would have given up 50 under those circumstances.

TheDave
09-13-2011, 09:22 AM
Exactly. Watching Orton is bad enough. Tebow would be twice the disaster that Orton is behind that line. At least Orton can occasionally hit a receiver. With the Raiders team speed, Tebow's running talents would have been a wash. I guarantee you, Knowshon is a better runner than Tebow, and he could barely get out of the backfield. This team just flat out does not have the talent to compete. You could resurrect Bill Walsh and put him in charge of this team and nothing would change. How many of these guys would take starting jobs on the Pats or GBay, for instance? Not many.

I watched both the Pats and the Ravens games... As I said elsewhere, It literally depresses me when I think of the talent difference between us and either of those teams.

The talent drain over the last 3-4 years has been shocking.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-13-2011, 09:23 AM
I can only imagine had Tebow had that kind of performance last night. Oh my, oh my...
I just imagine...
There would have been no efforts in trying to disseminate the game to see where things may have gone wrong. I can promise you that...

Different situation. To me, this was a referendum game on Orton. We were told he was the best QB on the team, he took all the snaps with the ones. It was Broncos/Raiders on Monday night. And he FAILED. He was HORRIBLE. He needed to step up and prove he was the guy. broncos fans were chanting "tebow" for a reason and its not because they desperately wanted him to play, its because orton was complete **** and they wanted anything else.

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:24 AM
Oh jesus christ. Really? This is your argument?

Reality hurts doesn't it

Traveler
09-13-2011, 09:24 AM
surprised there is no talk of Joe Mays here. Guy flat out sux! Guy should not be starting. I was totally embarrassed by his play! get him out of here!

Thank you! Glad I'm not the only one who noticed it.

The OAK O-Line was getting to the second level quite frequently, but I noticed Mays took bad angles, shot the wrong gap, overan plays, or could never disengage when someone get their hands on him.

Mays really got exposed last night. Hopefully he gets better as the season progresses.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-13-2011, 09:25 AM
Reality hurts doesn't it

You must be some kind of ****ing retard if "well, the TE might have dropped the wide open pass, so who cares if Orton dropped the ball during the most important, momentum changing drive of the day" is your argument as to why Kyle should be blameless.

And, though I didnt understand why Kyle was starting, im not an orton basher. I thought he looked great in the preseason and i was on board. But that was a disgusting performance.

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:30 AM
You must be some kind of ****ing retard if "well, the TE might have dropped the wide open pass, so who cares if Orton dropped the ball during the most important, momentum changing drive of the day" is your argument as to why Kyle should be blameless.

And, though I didnt understand why Kyle was starting, im not an orton basher. I thought he looked great in the preseason and i was on board. But that was a disgusting performance.

I didn't say that! You said they would have taken the lead but reality says that it wasn't a quaranty that the TE even catches the ball

And I didn't say Orton is blameless either What I am saying is the game was lost in the dreadful trenches

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 09:31 AM
I watched both the Pats and the Ravens games... As I said elsewhere, It literally depresses me when I think of the talent difference between us and either of those teams.

The talent drain over the last 3-4 years has been shocking.

You see the Bears and Redskins games?

Just sayin.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 09:32 AM
Reality hurts doesn't it

He's right. You're working a hideously awful "point"

SonOfLe-loLang
09-13-2011, 09:33 AM
I didn't say that! You said they would have taken the lead but reality says that it wasn't a quaranty that the TE even catches the ball

And I didn't say Orton is blameless either What I am saying is the game was lost in the dreadful trenches

Im taking my chances that the TE is going to catch a wide open pass. And, if he didnt, WE'D GET ANOTHER CHANCE. Obviously we got beat in the trenches, but DESPITE THAT, we had plenty of chances to win that game. And every time an opportunity presented itself, every time Orton needed to be great, he wasn't. He deserves the lion share of the blame for this one in my book.

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:34 AM
He's right. You're working a hideously awful "point"

What that the receiver was guaranteed to catch the ball and just walk into the endzone unattested when they had been dropping passes all night

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:35 AM
Im taking my chances that the TE is going to catch a wide open pass. And, if he didnt, WE'D GET ANOTHER CHANCE. Obviously we got beat in the trenches, but DESPITE THAT, we had plenty of chances to win that game. And every time an opportunity presented itself, every time Orton needed to be great, he wasn't. He deserves the lion share of the blame for this one in my book.

He deserves some blame as do the O-line, D-line, LB's, WR'sd, RB's, Coaches, ect. ect.

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 09:37 AM
1. I already acknowledged the main content of your OP, but you seem to miss that. Why? Here it is again:

I don't think anyone expected a Bronco's team with a new coaching staff, roster turnover, in a strike curtailed off-season to come out and play flawless football.

Did you?

So again, what's the point in discussing the obvious when it's not really going to change.

2. I'm not blaming it all on Orton, but yes I'm focussing on Orton for very valid reasons which I explained and you missed also. Why?

We don't have a better C/G/DT/MLB/RB options on the bench so how do we get better there immediately? I don't think we do. It's going to be a season long struggle.

However, I focus on Orton because WE DO have an option on the bench that can at least come in and provide better mobility/red zone options/intermediate or long ball passes than Orton.

3. Finally Orton played like he didn't give a crap. Throwing the ball away, not staying in the pocket and willing to take a hit to complete a crucial pass in the 4th quarter, so yes he quit and that's not something I've seen from Orton before.

Last night Orton played like he didn't care along with his individual mistakes, turnovers and lack of any impact or even mediocre veteran play.

Anyone else we can discuss who can come in and play better than a current starter? Unrein, McBean, the scrub backup OL we have? Lance Ball?

No, not really.

1. You are completely and utterly WRONG! The mistakes will get better and less. They WILL change.

2. You focus on orton, because you think their is a much better option sitting on the bench. Great, so did Shanahan. He put Cutler in with 4 games to go in 2006 with all the crap happening to Plummer. How did that go? Cutler proceeded to do some good things and promptly erased all the playoff hopes with all his errors. He threw 2 pick sixes, fumbled twice in our own red zone, and screwed the pooch under pressure down the stretch of games.

Cutler was not ready to play, and the team lost games because of it. Tebow is talented, but he is not good either right now. Coaches, especially new ones, have to get people to buy into their systems. If they are NOT starting Tebow, it is for a reason. I am glad that you and all the fans know better as usual, when you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Thanks for coming in here and letting us know like it already has not been mentioned :oyvey:

3. Orton was exasperated last night. No running game. WR's, including Lloyd, missed blitz reads and screwed up hot Routes. Guys dropped balls. The OL was doing their best matador impresssions. Did he pull through that and lead this team to a win? No. This is not an Elite QB with a Great OL and multiple weapons who the whole team is designed to run through his greatness. Orton is a solid starter NFL level QB, but he is nothing special. He does not have greatness written all over him. In short, he is the immobile Jake Plummer. At least Jake would run for the play (Oh, BTW he did scramble for a 13 yard run on one of the only times the Raiders played Man and pick up the first down, but nevermind that's irrelevant ;D )

I do not Like Kyle Orton, I do not like having to say what I do. He is a QB who needs to be upgraded to win in DEN or he needs to play on a talented team like BAL where the defense and OL dominate and he can just make plays as they come available and Ray Rice does the playmaking.

However, this TEAM went EPIC FAIL last night on him, and as poorly as he played, the rest of the team leaving him in third and 15 all night with holding penalties, false starts, and stupid ass Personal foul crap put him in a untenable position. Then they ran the wrong routes, missed blocking assignments, and dropped balls too. Oh, and he dropped a wet ball when the play design was set to make a huge play. He made his share of unforced errors, but to be so narrow minded in your assault on him is wrong.

I just hope they play Tebow to shut people like you up. Then, I hope he succeeds and is that Transcendent QB of the future. However, this team is still talent devoid and Tebow may not be the answer.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-13-2011, 09:39 AM
He deserves some blame as do the O-line, D-line, LB's, WR'sd, RB's, Coaches, ect. ect.

No, he's the Quarterback. And with that comes the responsibility of setting momentum and tempo. All he had to do was stay out of his own way and he couldnt do that. His goal line performance was typically terrible. His interception at the end of the half was atrocious, his overall accuracy was atypical of him (it was terrible last night) and, of course, he dropped the ball on the most important play of the game.

F- for Kyle. We win that game if he's competent.

*** and I'm not even saying PUT TEBOW IN NOW. I just am explaining why Orton **** the bed. However, 1st and goal at the 5? Tim's the best goal line threat in the league, why not play him there? Because of some old football understanding that you dont change quarterbacks during drives?

oubronco
09-13-2011, 09:41 AM
No, he's the Quarterback. And with that comes the responsibility of setting momentum and tempo. All he had to do was stay out of his own way and he couldnt do that. His goal line performance was typically terrible. His interception at the end of the half was atrocious, his overall accuracy was atypical of him (it was terrible last night) and, of course, he dropped the ball on the most important play of the game.

F- for Kyle. We win that game if he's competent.

Ok i'm done we win if Tebow plays so put him in so we can go 18-1 please

Taco John
09-13-2011, 09:44 AM
The thing that is especially disappointing about this game is that the Raiders were in a similar situation to us. They had a new staff installed during a lockout season, and to boot, they also lost what were arguably two of their best players in Asomugah and Zach Miller. I really thought we'd win this game.

I hate to give Orton more than his share of the blame, but it's hard to walk away from that game impressed with him. If we go down two touchdowns to any team, it's hard to imagine Orton engineering a comeback.

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 09:45 AM
You still don't get it.

THERE IS NO HELP.

We don't have a stud OL, running game. About the ONLY thing we have is a decent WR group so when Orton can't get the ball to those guys then he gives this team zero chance.

I don't care who it is, weber, quinn, tebow, just get me a QB who can spread the ball around and take his shots on deep/intermediate passes because that's the ONLY thing this offense can do, but not with Orton playing/quitting the way he did last night.

No, you still do not get it! There is such a thing as developing chemistry on the OL. There is such a thing as as eliminating errors and blown assignments. There is a thing about taking the talent you have and winning with Effort and being smart. There is a thing about talent becoming disciplined and executing better than the guy across from you.

I work in change management, and this hail mary mantra of the backup QB coming in and saving the team is simple emotional frustration combined with an "I want it Now mentality". It's dangerous to organizations and it's obviously dangerous to a fanbase. We lost by 3 points in a game we would have won if we stopped making errors and played solid football. We did not get blown out by 34 points at home to a weak team like KC did.

I wish Tebow would play to see if we have something there as a fan. I hold ZERO delusions that he will suddenly make this Offense better, because the pieces around him suck. If you want to espouse those delusions then feel free.

TheDave
09-13-2011, 09:45 AM
You see the Bears and Redskins games?

Just sayin.

I bet... My buddies said the exact same thing regarding the GB-NO game.

When you think about the talent needed to play with the elite teams we are most likely 2-3 VERY GOOD offseasons (both FA and Draft) away from having the horses.

Then we get to figure out if our staff can develop all the talent... Yeah!

(insert head shot warning sign)

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 09:51 AM
1. You are completely and utterly WRONG! The mistakes will get better and less. They WILL change.

2. You focus on orton, because you think their is a much better option sitting on the bench. Great, so did Shanahan. He put Cutler in with 4 games to go in 2006 with all the crap happening to Plummer. How did that go? Cutler proceeded to do some good things and promptly erased all the playoff hopes with all his errors. He threw 2 pick sixes, fumbled twice in our own red zone, and screwed the pooch under pressure down the stretch of games.

Cutler was not ready to play, and the team lost games because of it. Tebow is talented, but he is not good either right now. Coaches, especially new ones, have to get people to buy into their systems. If they are NOT starting Tebow, it is for a reason. I am glad that you and all the fans know better as usual, when you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Thanks for coming in here and letting us know like it already has not been mentioned :oyvey:

3. Orton was exasperated last night. No running game. WR's, including Lloyd, missed blitz reads and screwed up hot Routes. Guys dropped balls. The OL was doing their best matador impresssions. Did he pull through that and lead this team to a win? No. This is not an Elite QB with a Great OL and multiple weapons who the whole team is designed to run through his greatness. Orton is a solid starter NFL level QB, but he is nothing special. He does not have greatness written all over him. In short, he is the immobile Jake Plummer. At least Jake would run for the play (Oh, BTW he did scramble for a 13 yard run on one of the only times the Raiders played Man and pick up the first down, but nevermind that's irrelevant ;D )

I do not Like Kyle Orton, I do not like having to say what I do. He is a QB who needs to be upgraded to win in DEN or he needs to play on a talented team like BAL where the defense and OL dominate and he can just make plays as they come available and Ray Rice does the playmaking.

However, this TEAM went EPIC FAIL last night on him, and as poorly as he played, the rest of the team leaving him in third and 15 all night with holding penalties, false starts, and stupid ass Personal foul crap put him in a untenable position. Then they ran the wrong routes, missed blocking assignments, and dropped balls too. Oh, and he dropped a wet ball when the play design was set to make a huge play. He made his share of unforced errors, but to be so narrow minded in your assault on him is wrong.

I just hope they play Tebow to shut people like you up. Then, I hope he succeeds and is that Transcendent QB of the future. However, this team is still talent devoid and Tebow may not be the answer.

Hey bud, take a look around... we aren't going to be making a playoff push here.

You want whats best for this franchise you start taking a look at what you have for the long haul. EFX may very well decide that Tebow isn't the answer and never give him a chance. I trust their ability to evaluate talent and put the right players on the field. What I don't trust is their ability to spin the PR machine in the right direction.

The affect of booing Kyle Orton trickles down. Even Ayers was upset about it... and it won't stop. So throw the kid in and let him get punched around. If he plays well and does some good things then great. If he plays like crap then the Broncos have managed the PR machine effectively and can proceed with a QB in 2012 without fear of having the fan base boo their every move and decision. For me, this is about the long term success of this franchise.

They keep playing Kyle Orton and then decide that they want to draft a QB in 2012 without ever putting Tebow on the field, then there will be additional obstacles for the front office AND the new QB b/c there will be a large population of fans that say we already had the answer at QB in Tebow, he was just never given the chance.

Seriously Med, what is the worst that can happen with Tebow? We lose 15 games and miss the playoffs... BFD, I can handle that knowing that we're going to step in the right direction. What I can't handle is Kyle Orton winning 4 or 5 games and continuing this same PR nightmare the Broncos are currently in. Booed in the first home game of the season during an Orange Out... something has to change b/c this is going the same direction McD started and it leads to empty seats!

TonyR
09-13-2011, 09:51 AM
After WE ALL SAW what WE SAW, are you going to come here and tell us that putting all the blame on Orton's not right?

Yes. And there's a few other sane people here (Med, TheDave, Roh, etc.) saying pretty much the same thing. You have to have a little bit of perspective and common sense to see beyond one player/position. This team has lots of problems. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 09:53 AM
Orton is a solid starter NFL level QB

Not even close.

In NO areas.

Not in game managing (dude gets SO many delay of game, huddle, formation, etc penalties and blows time outs)

Not as a passer (receivers catch balls with hands not feet!)

Not as an athlete (casually saunters into closest DL after 5 seconds of protection)

Not in the mental aspect (show three plays from last night where he goes through progression and hits a #3 option)

Not as a leader (whole offense of "frown cannons" last night)

NOTHING about him is "solid starter".

zdoor
09-13-2011, 09:54 AM
Yes. And there's a few other sane people here (Med, TheDave, Roh, etc.) saying pretty much the same thing. You have to have a little bit of perspective and common sense to see beyond one player/position. This team has lots of problems. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

It does have lots of problems and Kyle Orton is one of the many...

TonyR
09-13-2011, 09:56 AM
However, this TEAM went EPIC FAIL last night on him, and as poorly as he played, the rest of the team leaving him in third and 15 all night with holding penalties, false starts, and stupid ass Personal foul crap put him in a untenable position. Then they ran the wrong routes, missed blocking assignments, and dropped balls too. Oh, and he dropped a wet ball when the play design was set to make a huge play. He made his share of unforced errors, but to be so narrow minded in your assault on him is wrong.

This, among other things, bears repeating. Orton certainly wasn't out there failing alone.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 09:56 AM
I bet... My buddies said the exact same thing regarding the GB-NO game.

When you think about the talent needed to play with the elite teams we are most likely 2-3 VERY GOOD offseasons (both FA and Draft) away from having the horses.

Then we get to figure out if our staff can develop all the talent... Yeah!

(insert head shot warning sign)

Haha I got yelled at for that one last night. Sent it to GF and went to sleep. She woke up and freaked out wondering if it had any seriousness to it.

Anyway, I posted in an earlier thread... if we take Luck/Barkley/etc this coming season, it will be 6 years after we drafted Cutler.

6 year set back thanks to the firing/trading... awesome.

jhns
09-13-2011, 09:56 AM
It does have lots of problems and Kyle Orton is one of the many...

And one of the bigger ones...

TonyR
09-13-2011, 09:58 AM
It does have lots of problems and Kyle Orton is one of the many...

I agree. My point is that most people are putting most, or all, of the blame on him. Which is ridiculous. And which is the point of the OP.

jhns
09-13-2011, 09:59 AM
This, among other things, bears repeating. Orton certainly wasn't out there failing alone.

No one has claimed otherwise. Some of that is crap though. I saw two dropped balls, it wasn't happening all the time. There is no way you could know they were running wrong routes. Try harder with the protectinv your hero thing. We will continue seeing tyat Orton is one of the bigger problems on a team with multiple problems.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 09:59 AM
I agree. My point is that most people are putting most, or all, of the blame on him. Which is ridiculous. And which is the point of the OP.

Most is probably right.

Certainly not all, but most is about right.

TheDave
09-13-2011, 09:59 AM
Haha I got yelled at for that one last night. Sent it to GF and went to sleep. She woke up and freaked out wondering if it had any seriousness to it.

Anyway, I posted in an earlier thread... if we take Luck/Barkley/etc this coming season, it will be 6 years after we drafted Cutler.

6 year set back thanks to the firing/trading... awesome.

I know, but we were the idiots. ;D

WolfpackGuy
09-13-2011, 10:00 AM
Orton got sacked by the blame.

LOL

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 10:00 AM
Hey bud, take a look around... we aren't going to be making a playoff push here.

You want whats best for this franchise you start taking a look at what you have for the long haul. EFX may very well decide that Tebow isn't the answer and never give him a chance. I trust their ability to evaluate talent and put the right players on the field. What I don't trust is their ability to spin the PR machine in the right direction.

The affect of booing Kyle Orton trickles down. Even Ayers was upset about it... and it won't stop. So throw the kid in and let him get punched around. If he plays well and does some good things then great. If he plays like crap then the Broncos have managed the PR machine effectively and can proceed with a QB in 2012 without fear of having the fan base boo their every move and decision. For me, this is about the long term success of this franchise.

They keep playing Kyle Orton and then decide that they want to draft a QB in 2012 without ever putting Tebow on the field, then there will be additional obstacles for the front office AND the new QB b/c there will be a large population of fans that say we already had the answer at QB in Tebow, he was just never given the chance.

Seriously Med, what is the worst that can happen with Tebow? We lose 15 games and miss the playoffs... BFD, I can handle that knowing that we're going to step in the right direction. What I can't handle is Kyle Orton winning 4 or 5 games and continuing this same PR nightmare the Broncos are currently in. Booed in the first home game of the season during an Orange Out... something has to change b/c this is going the same direction McD started and it leads to empty seats!

Kyle Orton is never going to be OK with this DEN team. There are so many holes to cover, and he is not an Elite QB who makes everyone around him better! He can not be that guy.

However, looking at it as a coach, you might just lose the whole lockerroom if you started Tebow with as many problems he had mentally during the preseason and TC. You send the wrong message to the team on your first attempt to get them to buy into your system.

If Orton continues to lose, hopefully they will make the switch. Then we can all watch Tebow sink or swim. This is entertainment right ;D

jhns
09-13-2011, 10:01 AM
I agree. My point is that most people are putting most, or all, of the blame on him. Which is ridiculous. And which is the point of the OP.

The defense played pretty good considering the position the offense put them in. Special teams made it a game. The offense, and Orton, had tons of chances that they blew. You claim Orton isn't one of the bigger problems as the rest of us live in reality.

Rohirrim
09-13-2011, 10:01 AM
Maybe we can talk Dilfer out of retirement?

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 10:01 AM
I know, but we were the idiots. ;D

In hindsight, we WERE. We were saying it was only a "5 year setback" Ha!

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 10:03 AM
No one has claimed otherwise. Some of that is crap though. I saw two dropped balls, it wasn't happening all the time. There is no way you could know they were running wrong routes. Try harder with the protectinv your hero thing. We will continue seeing tyat Orton is one of the bigger problems on a team with multiple problems.

Dude, this whole thread got threadjacked with the Orton thing, so try reading a little. There are plenty of people completely blaming Orton for losing last night, and not enough people seeing that DEN still had a chance to win that game even with the WHOLE team playing like crap.

I said it before the game, the team that makes the least amount of mistakes will probably win. Orton made his share, but the team made 5 times more.....

DontBeMessin
09-13-2011, 10:04 AM
Well... for what it's worth Bronco's - good game!

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 10:07 AM
Kyle Orton is never going to be OK with this DEN team. There are so many holes to cover, and he is not an Elite QB who makes everyone around him better! He can not be that guy.

However, looking at it as a coach, you might just lose the whole lockerroom if you started Tebow with as many problems he had mentally during the preseason and TC. You send the wrong message to the team on your first attempt to get them to buy into your system.

If Orton continues to lose, hopefully they will make the switch. Then we can all watch Tebow sink or swim. This is entertainment right ;D

Yep, I think it's a matter of time. The Broncos could very well be without Knowshon and Lloyd in the coming weeks.

I get that the players are fragile and the staff can't just change, especially this early. But on the same token, do you really think the staff is going to sit back and do nothing out of fear that they will lose the players... the same players that played like shiat?

jhns
09-13-2011, 10:07 AM
Dude, this whole thread got threadjacked with the Orton thing, so try reading a little. There are plenty of people completely blaming Orton for losing last night, and not enough people seeing that DEN still had a chance to win that game even with the WHOLE team playing like crap.

I said it before the game, the team that makes the least amount of mistakes will probably win. Orton made his share, but the team made 5 times more.....

And I agreed with all of this in my first post. I think Fox and Elway are on the right track if they can get the team to play disciplined. The defense did pretty well for the positions they were put in and would have been much better without penalties. The entire offense needs redone though. This is especially true for the QB position.

gyldenlove
09-13-2011, 10:08 AM
3. Orton was exasperated last night. No running game. WR's, including Lloyd, missed blitz reads and screwed up hot Routes. Guys dropped balls. The OL was doing their best matador impresssions. Did he pull through that and lead this team to a win? No. This is not an Elite QB with a Great OL and multiple weapons who the whole team is designed to run through his greatness. Orton is a solid starter NFL level QB, but he is nothing special. He does not have greatness written all over him. In short, he is the immobile Jake Plummer. At least Jake would run for the play (Oh, BTW he did scramble for a 13 yard run on one of the only times the Raiders played Man and pick up the first down, but nevermind that's irrelevant ;D )

I do not Like Kyle Orton, I do not like having to say what I do. He is a QB who needs to be upgraded to win in DEN or he needs to play on a talented team like BAL where the defense and OL dominate and he can just make plays as they come available and Ray Rice does the playmaking.

However, this TEAM went EPIC FAIL last night on him, and as poorly as he played, the rest of the team leaving him in third and 15 all night with holding penalties, false starts, and stupid ass Personal foul crap put him in a untenable position. Then they ran the wrong routes, missed blocking assignments, and dropped balls too. Oh, and he dropped a wet ball when the play design was set to make a huge play. He made his share of unforced errors, but to be so narrow minded in your assault on him is wrong.

I just hope they play Tebow to shut people like you up. Then, I hope he succeeds and is that Transcendent QB of the future. However, this team is still talent devoid and Tebow may not be the answer.

I would like to address several things here:

1. Run game, I am not sure why we are still trying that Mcdaniels single back bull****, the only way you can run the ball with any kind of consistency out of that formation is if you have a truly dominant QB, like Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers dominant - Kyle Orton is not such a QB and as a result whenever we run the ball we tend to run into situations where a LB or S comes unblocked to the RB around the line of scrimmage.

We absolutely need to a FB out there, our TEs are not good enough to warrant having 2 of them on the field in base formation run plays and running out of the 3 WR look is just not a consistent option. I didn't see the first drive, but in the 1st half we didn't have a fullback on the field once after we scored that FG - not once. That **** is not good enough and I believe the main reason the run game imploded as spectacularly as it did, just get rid of that idiotic notion of lining up in the single back formation as base formation it was a bad idea when Mcdaniels did it and it is a bad idea now.

2. Orton has a big weakness with pressure off the edge, he handles pressure down the middle well but when he gets pressure off the edge instead of taking a step into the pocket he pulls the ball down and tries to get between the guards, but when at least one of the DTs have maintained position at the front of pocket he runs into sacks and goes fetal. On the first Seymour "sack" Franklin was giving up ground on the right side and Orton instead of rolling over behind Clady who was holding up or taking a step up and letting Franklin try to push the rusher wide, he walked 2 or 3 steps up with the ball down and ran into the back of Kuper allowing Seymour to knock him down.

3. The penalties were a big issue, we were making many errors and many of them entirely unnecesary, there was a holding on Walton in a situation where Orton was holding on to the ball like it was the ring of power and he was Gollum, and a holding call on Kuper that was declined which looked like a phantom call, but other than that we made too many stupid mistakes - facemask grab, holding and personal fouls it was a nightmare, we got suckered into it and the veterans did not step up and put an end to it.

4. I didn't see any significant drops in the first half, I saw Orton underthrow on 2 or 3 passes, he overthrew on one when he got hit and was very lucky to get away with an incompletion, he underthrew on the pick to Lloyd. Orton looked like he often does, good at times, bad at times but never a guy who was going to carry the team to victory.

5. We lack speed at MLB, we were so vulnerable to screens, draws and off-tackle runs because Mays lacks the speed to get to the sideline. We need to address this position.

6. Dumervil being out changes everything, you could tell we lacked anything resembling pressure in our base formation and having Hunter in there really leaves us with lack of speed at the DE position - Ayers looked very slow yesterday in pursuit.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 10:09 AM
Dude, this whole thread got threadjacked with the Orton thing, so try reading a little. There are plenty of people completely blaming Orton for losing last night, and not enough people seeing that DEN still had a chance to win that game even with the WHOLE team playing like crap.

I said it before the game, the team that makes the least amount of mistakes will probably win. Orton made his share, but the team made 5 times more.....

I honestly see that the other way around. The team made their share, but Orton made 5 times more.

Drek
09-13-2011, 10:13 AM
You focus on orton, because you think their is a much better option sitting on the bench. Great, so did Shanahan. He put Cutler in with 4 games to go in 2006 with all the crap happening to Plummer. How did that go? Cutler proceeded to do some good things and promptly erased all the playoff hopes with all his errors. He threw 2 pick sixes, fumbled twice in our own red zone, and screwed the pooch under pressure down the stretch of games.
This isn't a playoff team. This isn't even a .500 team right now. This is a "Suck for Luck" favorite. So what are we losing by starting Tebow? The joys of watching Kyle Orton play football?

Coaches, especially new ones, have to get people to buy into their systems. If they are NOT starting Tebow, it is for a reason.
Of course there is a reason. I don't think the majority of people here think that Fox and co. are playing Orton out of some irrational dislike of Tebow. The real question is what that reason might be.

Is it because Tebow isn't ready and Orton gives us the best chance to win like the FO claims even though Tebow ran the offense as well as Orton in three games last season and Orton's "best chance to win" carried us to a 4-12 record last season?

Or is it because Tebow's contract skyrockets in value if he plays 50% of the snaps in two years?

Or is it because Elway has no real desire to play McDaniels' QB and is going to dump Tebow for Luck at the first opportunity?

There are a lot of possible reasons for why they have Orton in instead of Tebow. Many of them go directly against giving Tebow any kind of real chance. Which jives with how the FO/coaching has been acting towards him all pre-season.

Orton was exasperated last night. No running game. WR's, including Lloyd, missed blitz reads and screwed up hot Routes. Guys dropped balls. The OL was doing their best matador impresssions. Did he pull through that and lead this team to a win? No.
Thats just it though. You're phrasing your argument like Orton gave a yeoman's effort in a loss despite weak play around him. Yet I seem to recall a game where after doing nothing with the opening possession our defense spotted Orton the ball in the red zone. We settled for a field goal. Where in a end of the half two minute drill Orton sailed a duck into the arms of a raider's safety. Another drive where two consecutive safety blitzes caused him to chuck the ball out of bounds on 2nd and 3rd down, not once making a pre-snap read at all. And who can forget when he finally sees some light at the end of the tunnel and all those receivers who were dropping balls earlier are instead making dynamic catches, with a TE running wide open down the field, Orton literally drops the ****ing ball.

I saw a game where lots of Broncos made errors. But the biggest, most costly, most inextricably mind boggling errors were consistently made by one guy. Kyle Orton.

However, this TEAM went EPIC FAIL last night on him
No, Orton led the charge towards the "epic fail" that was last night's game.


I just hope they play Tebow to shut people like you up.
Me too. Because if we're going to win the Suck for Luck sweepstakes we might as well see what we have in our former 1st round QB on the way there.

Final point: Unless we find a transcendent QB or RB this team won't sniff .500, let alone the playoffs. So why hang onto a guy with 7 years of mediocrity at QB? Why not see if we have that transcendent QB after drafting him in the first round last year? He probably isn't. But at least we'll get to find out and be better prepared to try and find that guy in next year's draft.

This team isn't winning **** until it gets a real QB and a real DL. If we drafted Stephen Paea in the past draft would you want to see Vickerson's act out there game after game while they let Paea ride the pine? At some point there is literally no way the alternative could be worse.

Pendejo
09-13-2011, 10:15 AM
sacked by the blame.

LOL

There's your band name right there.

Mediator12
09-13-2011, 10:29 AM
I honestly see that the other way around. The team made their share, but Orton made 5 times more.

OK, that's fair.

However, I just watched all 16 games and took notes on every single one of them. The teams that made the most mistakes, were KC, INDY, OAK, and the winner by far was DEN. Orton made 4 mistakes and then he lost the grip on a wet ball on a trick play. I had DEN for 31 major minuses on offense last night. Franklin had 8, Kuper had 6, Beadles 5, and Moreno 5. That is 4 guys with as many or more errors than Orton. And, that does not even include the defense yet.

What's your count?

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 10:36 AM
OK, that's fair.

However, I just watched all 16 games and took notes on every single one of them. The teams that made the most mistakes, were KC, INDY, OAK, and the winner by far was DEN. Orton made 4 mistakes and then he lost the grip on a wet ball on a trick play. I had DEN for 31 major minuses on offense last night. Franklin had 8, Kuper had 6, Beadles 5, and Moreno 5. That is 4 guys with as many or more errors than Orton. And, that does not even include the defense yet.

What's your count?

LOL

How do you expect that post to be taken seriously after that?

Orton had more turnovers and "walk into DL" sacks than 4!

Let alone:

Penalties
Poor throws
Missed reads
Blown Time outs
Etc

Four mistakes though! ^5

yerner
09-13-2011, 10:37 AM
I'm hungover and depressed.

2KBack
09-13-2011, 10:39 AM
I must be one of the very few who were a bit encouraged from last night. I saw an undisciplined team making a ton of mental errors, which is what I expected considering what Denver is trying to recover from last season with hardly an offseason.

Mental errors can be corrected and you can become more disciplined. I expect both of these things to happen throughout the season.

Anyone expecting a sudden turnaround was kidding themselves, but we can certainly look for the team to take a nice step forward.

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 10:44 AM
What did everyone think about the Broncos taking Von Miller out and replacing him with Hagan in the 4th?

Drek
09-13-2011, 10:48 AM
I must be one of the very few who were a bit encouraged from last night. I saw an undisciplined team making a ton of mental errors, which is what I expected considering what Denver is trying to recover from last season with hardly an offseason.

Mental errors can be corrected and you can become more disciplined. I expect both of these things to happen throughout the season.

Anyone expecting a sudden turnaround was kidding themselves, but we can certainly look for the team to take a nice step forward.

I'd have been encouraged if we didn't show that we were more than capable from a talent standpoint of beating the raiders, but that the inability to mentally handle the game across the board ****ed us.

McCoy was mentally incapable of deviating from a beaten offensive game plan.

The OL was mentally incapable of sound OL play. Not even stopping their guys, just not committing stupid penalties.

Orton was incapable of making the right decision (or often any decision) on multiple key downs.

We played dog **** football because this team has no discipline or understanding of what they need to do. A big part of that is coaching, a shortened off-season, etc.. So I can forgive Franklin's transgressions, since he's a rookie. I can extend some similar grace to Beadles since much of his playing time last year was at RT, not LG, so he's a 2nd year guy making a big transition with little prep. I can even kind of find a little forgiveness for McCoy since this is really only his first season of actually calling the plays.

But Orton? Its his third year in basically the same system. He's been a starter for the majority of his seven year career. He hangs his hat on being a solid, reliable, mentally savvy QB because lord knows athleticism isn't his calling card. Yet he was at least as big an offender as anyone else on the team last night.

Maybe Franklin, Beadles, etc. mature with time. They're young and they did miss a lot of key work in the off-season. But Orton has been here long enough to know better and he's supposed to be the veteran leader of this offense. When the vet leader is incapable of playing mentally sound football how can we expect that from the younger, less experienced guys?

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 10:59 AM
So Beadles and Franklin shiating the sheets doesn't buy them the hook, but somehow Von Miller did poorly enough to get yanked for Mario Hagan in the 4th... not impressed.

Drek
09-13-2011, 11:00 AM
So Beadles and Franklin shiating the sheets doesn't buy them the hook, but somehow Von Miller did poorly enough to get yanked for Mario Hagan in the 4th... not impressed.

Maybe he tweaked something and they were being cautious. with Miller's play making up to that point I can't believe he was pulled for performance reasons.

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 11:01 AM
What did everyone think about the Broncos taking Von Miller out and replacing him with Hagan in the 4th?

Here's Fox's thoughts on it;

On LB Mario Haggan replacing LB Von Miller
“He’s a young player, and Haggan is more of a veteran player—just trying to mix that up. Mario has earned that right.”

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 11:01 AM
Maybe he tweaked something and they were being cautious. with Miller's play making up to that point I can't believe he was pulled for performance reasons.

See above.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 11:04 AM
What did everyone think about the Broncos taking Von Miller out and replacing him with Hagan in the 4th?

Until he can tackle consistently, it might not be terrible to mix it up like that in the base defense/keep Von for Nickel obviously/trot out Haggan for obvious running downs.

Drek
09-13-2011, 11:09 AM
Here's Fox's thoughts on it;

On LB Mario Haggan replacing LB Von Miller
“He’s a young player, and Haggan is more of a veteran player—just trying to mix that up. Mario has earned that right.”

Fair enough.

Doesn't totally surprise me. The more I hear from Fox the more I feel like he's a veteran's guy and will bury young guys all day to go with a vet out of some "veteran loyalty" mindset.

Gort
09-13-2011, 11:09 AM
Here's Fox's thoughts on it;

On LB Mario Haggan replacing LB Von Miller
“He’s a young player, and Haggan is more of a veteran player—just trying to mix that up. Mario has earned that right.”

i didn't realize the NFL operated on a seniority system.

:olddude:

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 11:10 AM
Von Miller saved two long McFadden Runs last night. One of them a shoestring tackle in pursuit on the opposite side.

I would have to go back and look, was it Von that blew his assignment on McFadden's long run? Maybe that caused DA to pull Von?

jhns
09-13-2011, 11:12 AM
Fair enough.

Doesn't totally surprise me. The more I hear from Fox the more I feel like he's a veteran's guy and will bury young guys all day to go with a vet out of some "veteran loyalty" mindset.

This is exactly how he operated with the Panthers. He loves his veterans.

Broncoman13
09-13-2011, 11:13 AM
Fair enough.

Doesn't totally surprise me. The more I hear from Fox the more I feel like he's a veteran's guy and will bury young guys all day to go with a vet out of some "veteran loyalty" mindset.

That's what I'm seeing too... in fact, I would say he goes out of his way to make the Vets comfortable. These are the same vets that wouldn't make it on any other team and pissed themselves repeatedly last night. I'd go Jason Garrett on their asses and pull their Bronco Logos! ;D

Surprised Fox didn't make Von share a locker and put his name up with masking tape!

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 11:29 AM
Von Miller saved two long McFadden Runs last night. One of them a shoestring tackle in pursuit on the opposite side.

I would have to go back and look, was it Von that blew his assignment on McFadden's long run? Maybe that caused DA to pull Von?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011091201/2011/REG1/raiders@broncos#menu=highlights&tab=recap

2:49

Miller on the weakside 9, runs into backfield, play to the strongside, jogs after McFadden who cuts it back weakside

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 11:30 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011091201/2011/REG1/raiders@broncos#menu=highlights&tab=recap

2:49

Miller on the weakside 9, runs into backfield, play to the strongside, jogs after McFadden who cuts it back weakside

^ To expand, Mays looks stupid right in front of McFadden in the "hole" (but too wide open to accurately be called a hole) but at least he took a blocker...

Dedhed
09-13-2011, 11:31 AM
I would have to go back and look, was it Von that blew his assignment on McFadden's long run? Maybe that caused DA to pull Von?

No. Von was lined up on the defensive right on the LOS. Play went off tackle the other way, Von pursued down the line. Mays overran the play and got washed even further out of it. Goodman fell down.

Traveler
09-13-2011, 11:36 AM
No. Von was lined up on the defensive right on the LOS. Play went off tackle the other way, Von pursued down the line. Mays overran the play and got washed even further out of it. Goodman fell down.

Mays did that quite a bit last night.

fontaine
09-13-2011, 01:04 PM
1. You are completely and utterly WRONG! The mistakes will get better and less. They WILL change.


Mistakes go away if we had talented players that didn't play up to that level.

The major problems in the trenches are to do with lack of talent from the likes of Vickerson/backups/Walton/Beadles. That doesn't go away.

2. You focus on orton, because you think their is a much better option sitting on the bench. Great, so did Shanahan. He put Cutler in with 4 games to go in 2006 with all the crap happening to Plummer. How did that go? Cutler proceeded to do some good things and promptly erased all the playoff hopes with all his errors. He threw 2 pick sixes, fumbled twice in our own red zone, and screwed the pooch under pressure down the stretch of games.

Cutler was not ready to play, and the team lost games because of it. Tebow is talented, but he is not good either right now. Coaches, especially new ones, have to get people to buy into their systems. If they are NOT starting Tebow, it is for a reason. I am glad that you and all the fans know better as usual, when you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Thanks for coming in here and letting us know like it already has not been mentioned :oyvey:

Completely different from the Culter/Plummer situation as we were winning at that point and had enough there in the running game and defense to overcome the piss poor passing. So the situation is NOTHING alike.

I never claimed anything about knowing better etc. Why would you even assume that? I've only said that if this is the kind of play we're going to get from Orton then there isn't a drop off in playing Tebow especially considering the positives in Tebow's game. I'm sure the coaches expected Orton to play like a veteran, he didn't.

3. Orton was exasperated last night. No running game. WR's, including Lloyd, missed blitz reads and screwed up hot Routes. Guys dropped balls. The OL was doing their best matador impresssions. Did he pull through that and lead this team to a win? No. This is not an Elite QB with a Great OL and multiple weapons who the whole team is designed to run through his greatness. Orton is a solid starter NFL level QB, but he is nothing special. He does not have greatness written all over him. In short, he is the immobile Jake Plummer. At least Jake would run for the play (Oh, BTW he did scramble for a 13 yard run on one of the only times the Raiders played Man and pick up the first down, but nevermind that's irrelevant ;D )

I do not Like Kyle Orton, I do not like having to say what I do. He is a QB who needs to be upgraded to win in DEN or he needs to play on a talented team like BAL where the defense and OL dominate and he can just make plays as they come available and Ray Rice does the playmaking.

However, this TEAM went EPIC FAIL last night on him, and as poorly as he played, the rest of the team leaving him in third and 15 all night with holding penalties, false starts, and stupid ass Personal foul crap put him in a untenable position. Then they ran the wrong routes, missed blocking assignments, and dropped balls too. Oh, and he dropped a wet ball when the play design was set to make a huge play. He made his share of unforced errors, but to be so narrow minded in your assault on him is wrong.

I just hope they play Tebow to shut people like you up. Then, I hope he succeeds and is that Transcendent QB of the future. However, this team is still talent devoid and Tebow may not be the answer.

People like me?

Please understand this. If there was a way to improve the DL/ILB/OL/RB play then I'M ALL FOR IT. But again, I don't see the talent that's starting, and certainly not the talent on the bench because there isn't any.

Why is it that when I expect the starting QB who's only got the job because he's a veteran to play like one that it's somehow people like me that need to shut up?

I DON'T EXPECT Tebow to come in and set the world on fire. I just don't think his play is going to be all that worse than what we saw from Orton and given our red zone problems, OL protection, lack of running game, his physical skills might actually be an advantage.

I pretty much have completely stayed off this site in the offseason because of the QB controversy/media cluster ****, but somehow in week 1 because I expect a little better QB play than what we got, you wish Tebow would start to shut people up like me.

Thanks for your other football takes, because this certainly wasn't one.

Taco John
09-13-2011, 01:22 PM
http://i55.tinypic.com/200qsyw.gif

dsmoot
09-13-2011, 01:34 PM
I know this place is about to go to blame mode central with the usual cast of characters, but this game was a simple rivalry game gone bad that increased the level of mistakes DEN made in all three phases of the game. OAK sure made more than enough to let DEN take advantage of them, but somehow DEN made just as many or more. Here is what I saw yesterday before the game:



This game was bad, but it is fixable to some extent. Both teams quit playing football and were playing playground ball. DEN took the bait and for some reason stopped run blitzing. They looked like they had a new Defense, they looked horrible on the OL run blocking, and they played with a chip on their shoulder the wrong way.

The blame is solely on the team losing its cool, getting drawn into the raiders ineptitude, and not having an OL or DL worth a damn.

This game was not lost "between the ears or because of emotion". Don't look for subtle reasons because the cause is physical and it is very glaring and obvious. Their boys are better than our boys and the difference is much greater than the score indicated. In order to run the ball the way they did, they beat us physically at the point of attack. You can blame it on Mays or anyone else who was not able to match up physically to plug the holes and prevent McFadden from gashing us. This was simple, hard nosed, physical, intimidating football and we didn't match up to stop it. We knew what was coming, they didn't hide it or disquise it, they simply beat us up.

If anything, the Raider penalties made the game closer. When we had a better football team, the Broncos would make the Raiders pay for such undisciplined football and we would win the game. Shanahan took advantage of this many times which was a major reason we won many of these games even when the teams respective talent was fairly even.

As for the offense, the same thing happened on the line. We could not run the football because we didn't have an answer for the aggressive, push the pocket style of physical football in the trenches. We were repeatedly in 3rd and long because we couldn't open up the holes to get the job done. Then they pinned their ears back and came after us.

Did we have scoring opportunities, yes, and the same reasons we were unsuccessful last year, we didn't get it done yesterday. It is Orton and it is some others. Defeat never lies on the shoulder of one but everyone carries THEIR portion of the blame. There is a reason a QB is the highest paid player on the team, never lose sight of why that is.

Pendejo
09-13-2011, 01:37 PM
Mays did that quite a bit last night.

Yeah. Middle linebacker is a serious hole on the team right now. Mays might be willing, but he's not any good.

gyldenlove
09-13-2011, 01:49 PM
This game was not lost "between the ears or because of emotion". Don't look for subtle reasons because the cause is physical and it is very glaring and obvious. Their boys are better than our boys and the difference is much greater than the score indicated. In order to run the ball the way they did, they beat us physically at the point of attack. You can blame it on Mays or anyone else who was not able to match up physically to plug the holes and prevent McFadden from gashing us. This was simple, hard nosed, physical, intimidating football and we didn't match up to stop it. We knew what was coming, they didn't hide it or disquise it, they simply beat us up.

If anything, the Raider penalties made the game closer. When we had a better football team, the Broncos would make the Raiders pay for such undisciplined football and we would win the game. Shanahan took advantage of this many times which was a major reason we won many of these games even when the teams respective talent was fairly even.

As for the offense, the same thing happened on the line. We could not run the football because we didn't have an answer for the aggressive, push the pocket style of physical football in the trenches. We were repeatedly in 3rd and long because we couldn't open up the holes to get the job done. Then they pinned their ears back and came after us.

Did we have scoring opportunities, yes, and the same reasons we were unsuccessful last year, we didn't get it done yesterday. It is Orton and it is some others. Defeat never lies on the shoulder of one but everyone carries THEIR portion of the blame. There is a reason a QB is the highest paid player on the team, never lose sight of why that is.

The main reason we were in 3rd and 10 situations was incompletions and penalties.

We did a lot of things wrong, looking away from the penalties, miscues, playcalling and luck, we were not outclassed by the Raiders, they were clearly better than us in some aspects of the game especially their defensive line was miles ahead of our defensive line, but this was a game we could definitely have won - not something we could say of any of the Raiders game last season.

There is not 1 factor that determined this game, it would stupid to claim that, but of all the factors that did conspire to come up with the final score the one that is easiest to address and hopefully change is the mental aspect. We can't suddenly conjure up a more talented roster, so we have to work on the things we can control.

Yesterdays game showed clearly that if you can limit your mistakes and limit the impact of your mistakes and take advantage of your chances you can win many football games. All the points the Raiders scored in the 1st half were scored off our mistakes, the blocked punt, the Moreno fumble and the interception (throw in a horrible piece of defense on a 3rd and 13). You can't eliminate every mistake, fumbles do happen when it rains but you can help the situation by two-handing the ball when you run in the middle in the rain. Can you prevent a blocked punt? yes, Bruton needs to keep an eye on the rushers in that situation instead of taking off down the field. These are little things we can improve, that will hopefully later on during the season mean we can come out ahead in these close games instead of coming up short.

DENVERDUI55
09-13-2011, 02:04 PM
Orton played poorly last night, but its not like he had ANY help whatsoever.

DEN had 38 yards rushing and got decimated at the POA all night long. How are you going to score in the redzone when you can not even run between the 20's ???

Again, typical fan overreaction because Tebow is not starting. Hell, even I want him to start just to shut all the people up. People here are just exasperating. Screw it.

I agree lets start Tebow to shut everyone up.

TheReverend
09-13-2011, 02:24 PM
OK, that's fair.

However, I just watched all 16 games and took notes on every single one of them. The teams that made the most mistakes, were KC, INDY, OAK, and the winner by far was DEN. Orton made 4 mistakes and then he lost the grip on a wet ball on a trick play. I had DEN for 31 major minuses on offense last night. Franklin had 8, Kuper had 6, Beadles 5, and Moreno 5. That is 4 guys with as many or more errors than Orton. And, that does not even include the defense yet.

What's your count?

Btw...

At the time this post was made, there was literally not enough time to have watched and taken notes on all 16 games...

Thursday night game and all of Sunday watching real time.

That leaves 10 games to watch starting at midnight Sunday with a deadline of 7PM EST for the next two games. Which ended around 2 AM to your post this morning.

That's about 28 hours for 10 more games.

Almost 3 hours per game is do-able... if you're focused for literally 2 days straight in a vacuum away from family, not taking good notes on the games and NO sleeping for over 2 days.

...........soooooooooooooooooooooooooo, yeah.

DENVERDUI55
09-13-2011, 02:32 PM
OK, that's fair.

However, I just watched all 16 games and took notes on every single one of them. The teams that made the most mistakes, were KC, INDY, OAK, and the winner by far was DEN. Orton made 4 mistakes and then he lost the grip on a wet ball on a trick play. I had DEN for 31 major minuses on offense last night. Franklin had 8, Kuper had 6, Beadles 5, and Moreno 5. That is 4 guys with as many or more errors than Orton. And, that does not even include the defense yet.

What's your count?

Kuper was horrible along with the rest of OL. They were rag rolled and holding machines. Franklin is rookie so I van accept the mistakes and growing pains. Kuper is paid top dollar and needs to play up to his salary. I don't care if his dad posts here he sucked last night and was outclassed by Oaklands dl.

Retire #30!!!
09-13-2011, 02:52 PM
I want to throw out a big FU to Andre Goodman...
And Vickerson for his facemask that allowed that fat POS to kick the long field goal at the end of the 1st.

As soon as they threw that flag I had visions of a long field goal attempt.
:thumbsdow

maven
09-13-2011, 02:59 PM
I want to throw out a big FU to Andre Goodman...

I agree.

Taco John
09-13-2011, 04:27 PM
Btw...

At the time this post was made, there was literally not enough time to have watched and taken notes on all 16 games...

Thursday night game and all of Sunday watching real time.

That leaves 10 games to watch starting at midnight Sunday with a deadline of 7PM EST for the next two games. Which ended around 2 AM to your post this morning.

That's about 28 hours for 10 more games.

Almost 3 hours per game is do-able... if you're focused for literally 2 days straight in a vacuum away from family, not taking good notes on the games and NO sleeping for over 2 days.

...........soooooooooooooooooooooooooo, yeah.

I'm pretty sure Comcast offers digests don't they?

Bob's your Information Minister
09-13-2011, 04:51 PM
Kuper was horrible along with the rest of OL. They were rag rolled and holding machines.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2011/0912/20110912__RaidersBroncos091211_kuper~p1.jpg

Rascal
09-13-2011, 04:58 PM
What did everyone think about the Broncos taking Von Miller out and replacing him with Hagan in the 4th?

I WAS LIVID!!

Rascal
09-13-2011, 04:59 PM
Here's Fox's thoughts on it;

On LB Mario Haggan replacing LB Von Miller
“He’s a young player, and Haggan is more of a veteran player—just trying to mix that up. Mario has earned that right.”

If he does that again I want a new coach. This team isn't going anywhere. Miller needs the experience. Hell, bench Mays while you are at it.