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montrose
09-10-2011, 10:16 AM
Sorry if repost, but didn't see anything, from The Denver Post. Contains some good stuff from #7 on how he wants to build his team and what he's looking for:

"You need the guy to win you a championship from the pocket, to be a leader, to make it go. And you're looking for the athlete at the position who can operate from the pocket and get out when he needs to." - John Elway

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18827084

Part of Denver Post's 2011 NFL Preview: http://www.denverpost.com/broncosspecial

DENVERDUI55
09-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Draft Luck then John. Sell the farm for him.

TheDave
09-10-2011, 10:29 AM
I know people are trying to make this out to be a "John hates tebow" thing, but I don't get it.

Archer81
09-10-2011, 10:36 AM
I know people are trying to make this out to be a "John hates tebow" thing, but I don't get it.


Makes two of us.

At this point these articles barely merit a "meh" from me. Whateve. Bring on the season already.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
09-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Thread title must be off.

Should say "Dan Marino". There's no way Elway said something like that.

Bigdawg26
09-10-2011, 11:03 AM
Translation- We WILL draft a QB next year to be our guy!

Gcver2ver3
09-10-2011, 11:08 AM
I know people are trying to make this out to be a "John hates tebow" thing, but I don't get it.

they should look at it as "John hates Tebow AND Orton"...

because that description doesn't describe either one of them...

WolfpackGuy
09-10-2011, 11:14 AM
They had a guy like, but he's in Chicago now...

And nope, I'm never gonna let the fools who tried to justify what was going on in 2009 and 2010 forget it.

Kaylore
09-10-2011, 11:14 AM
I read it the complete opposite. He used the word athlete and he wants a passer that can move. Orton is non of those things.

DivineBronco
09-10-2011, 11:16 AM
They had a guy like, but he's in Chicago now...

And nope, I'm never gonna let the fools who tried to justify what was going on in 2009 and 2010 forget it.

cutler could have chosen to bash bowlen and mcd but yet he chose to call his fans 6's true colors were show don't ever pine for him

Bob's your Information Minister
09-10-2011, 11:17 AM
Translation: We don't have a QB.

DeuceOfClub
09-10-2011, 11:18 AM
personally, I much rather have a QB that can't operate from the pocket, and get out when he doesn't need to.

ColoradoDarin
09-10-2011, 11:25 AM
I'd rather just win.

In the pocket, out of the pocket, I don't care. If the guys a statue and wins - I'll take it, if he throws ducks all day and yet wins, I'll take it.

Win. Period.

Bronx33
09-10-2011, 11:28 AM
I read it the complete opposite. He used the word athlete and he wants a passer that can move. Orton is non of those things.


He basically wants somebody like himself ( which is fine with me).

ZONA
09-10-2011, 11:33 AM
Yes, I think for sure what John is really saying is, we're drafting a QB next year who I think is a pocket passer type who is accurate but is athletic enough to escape when he needs to.

Doesn't mean he isn't giving up on Tebow. It just means He doesn't think Tebow is the right type of QB to lead this team as he is right now. He must develop better throwing mechanics and become much more accurate. Orton is gone. Aint nothing he can do about being slow.

McDman
09-10-2011, 11:36 AM
personally, I much rather have a QB that can't operate from the pocket, and get out when he doesn't need to.

We have him, his name is Tim Tebow.

Pony Boy
09-10-2011, 11:46 AM
I think Elway will get us that QB but I'm afraid we won't have any draft picks for the next 2 years.

Swedish Extrovert
09-10-2011, 11:52 AM
Elway wants QB who can operate from pocket and "get out when he needs to"

Don't we all?

oubronco
09-10-2011, 12:10 PM
Landry Jones come on down

elsid13
09-10-2011, 12:16 PM
Landry Jones come on down

Try Ryan Tannenhilll (TAMU) instead....

Agamemnon
09-10-2011, 12:17 PM
He's already said that Tebow needs to develop as a pocket passer if he's going to make it. How is this news? This doesn't preclude Tebow in the future in any way. Elway may go another way, or he may not. This article doesn't say anything one way or the other.

oubronco
09-10-2011, 12:30 PM
Try Ryan Tannenhilll (TAMU) instead....

I'd prefer Landry or Luck

UberBroncoMan
09-10-2011, 12:32 PM
Guess Peyton Manning wouldn't have worked out here :p. There's many types of QB's than can win games. Elway seems to be looking for a clone of himself.

oubronco
09-10-2011, 12:33 PM
Guess Peyton Manning wouldn't have worked out here :p. There's many types of QB's than can win games. Elway seems to be looking for a clone of himself.

Luck it is then

DarkHorse
09-10-2011, 12:47 PM
cutler could have chosen to bash bowlen and mcd but yet he chose to call his fans 6's true colors were show don't ever pine for him

Sorry guys, I can't get into the conversation because i'm still trying to figure out WTF this guy said?

Anyone have a translation for this?

gunns
09-10-2011, 12:53 PM
Don't we all?

Yes, the problem is we don't have one.

This Elway hates Tebow thing is so contrived. I'm sure he likes Tebow the person, but he doesn't see the QB he wants. Nor in Orton who can't get out when he needs to. He was exactly what he wants, a QB who could operate from the pocket very well, and get out when he needed to.

Jay3
09-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Sorry guys, I can't get into the conversation because i'm still trying to figure out WTF this guy said?

Anyone have a translation for this?

"cutler could have chosen to bash bowlen and mcd but yet he chose to call his fans 6's true colors were show don't ever pine for him"

Cutler should not be looked upon with longing, because when he was traded he did not, as one might expect, "bash" Bowlen and McD. Rather, he made derogatory remarks about Denver fans, calling them "6's." [whatever that is, typo probably]. This revealed Cutler's true colors. I implore you not to pine for such a cad.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2011, 01:19 PM
He just described Tebow to me, but he's not ready yet.

The Joker
09-10-2011, 01:27 PM
Coming tomorrow.

Elway wants a RB who can run between the tackles, and bounce it outside when he needs to.

TheReverend
09-10-2011, 01:29 PM
...Does anyone know if Elway wants a defender that can tackle the opposing ball carrier?

I'd like a public statement to provide some clarity on that issue.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 01:29 PM
Sorry guys, I can't get into the conversation because i'm still trying to figure out WTF this guy said?

Anyone have a translation for this?

"This LSD has messed me up. I'm laying inside the floor."

s0phr0syne
09-10-2011, 01:43 PM
Landry Jones come on down


haha, as an OU alumnus (and current student), I certainly hope NOT!

Landry is...He's basically Orton with a cannon arm. I like the guy (I like Orton), but I think that his best case scenario will end up being a lot like Orton where teams like having him, but are always trying to replace him. And that's only if Landry can get wayyyyyyyy better in the cerebral/mental aspects of his game.

hambone13
09-10-2011, 01:43 PM
"cutler could have chosen to bash bowlen and mcd but yet he chose to call his fans 6's true colors were show don't ever pine for him"

Cutler should not be looked upon with longing, because when he was traded he did not, as one might expect, "bash" Bowlen and McD. Rather, he made derogatory remarks about Denver fans, calling them "6's." [whatever that is, typo probably]. This revealed Cutler's true colors. I implore you not to pine for such a cad.

This constant ridiculous comment about Cutler calling the fans a "6" and his making that statement out of honesty is ridiculous. Have you been to a Bears game and a recent Broncos game? Our fans are light in the enthusiasm space. Just because you're not doesn't change the reality of those around you. Our fans have become wine and cheese fans, through and through. I hate to admit it but we're a city that is a melting pot of other fans. Old Mile High is dead and now we're Red from the sky and weak at the seat. This isn't about Cutler. He was speaking the truth.

Lolad
09-10-2011, 01:44 PM
I think Elway also said he wants a receiver that can run routes and get off the LOS without being jammed. Oh plus catch the ball

Durango
09-10-2011, 01:45 PM
He basically wants somebody like himself ( which is fine with me).

This. No question about that.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 01:49 PM
...Does anyone know if Elway wants a defender that can tackle the opposing ball carrier?

I'd like a public statement to provide some clarity on that issue.

Yeah, he has been ambiguous on that issue.

I think he's trying to criticize Tebow by not being upfront there.

bowtown
09-10-2011, 01:54 PM
They had a guy like, but he's in Chicago now...

And nope, I'm never gonna let the fools who tried to justify what was going on in 2009 and 2010 forget it.

You must have missed this part:

]"You need the guy to win you a championship from the pocket, to be a leader, to make it go. And you're looking for the athlete at the position who can operate from the pocket and get out when he needs to." - John Elway

strafen
09-10-2011, 01:54 PM
haha, as an OU alumnus (and current student), I certainly hope NOT!

Landry is...He's basically Orton with a cannon arm. I like the guy (I like Orton), but I think that his best case scenario will end up being a lot like Orton where teams like having him, but are always trying to replace him. And that's only if Landry can get wayyyyyyyy better in the cerebral/mental aspects of his game.

He's Orton for sure!!!
Is there ever was a college QB that resembles an current NFL QB, it's Landry.
Jesus, the guy is as fast dropping back out of the pocket as Orton.
He's got cement block on those feet.
No thank you!!!

hambone13
09-10-2011, 01:57 PM
Yeah, he has been ambiguous on that issue.

I think he's trying to criticize Tebow by not being upfront there.

Whatever. As much as I'd like to see Tebow in action given the complexities of what might transpire around Orton, he's just making a public statement that makes sense no matter what. We don't currently have (on the team) what he is generally stating is his preference. Leave your jackass statements, seemingly for the soul purpose of drama to your clipboard. No one on this site has any interest in your glib momentary points of comment with no roots to anything valid.

ColoradoDarin
09-10-2011, 01:57 PM
Elway wants CBs that can cover and make an occasional interception.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2011, 02:00 PM
Elway wants CBs that can cover and make an occasional interception.

I heard it was more than occasional.

hambone13
09-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Elway wants CBs that can cover and make an occasional interception.

LOL, that takes rules that allow CBs to be CBs. This is a WR league now.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Whatever. As much as I'd like to see Tebow in action given the complexities of what might transpire around Orton, he's just making a public statement that makes sense no matter what. We don't currently have (on the team) what he is generally stating is his preference. Leave your jackass statements, seemingly for the soul purpose of drama to your clipboard. No one on this site has any interest in your glib momentary points of comment with no roots to anything valid.

LOL

Did you hear that sound?

Rock Chalk
09-10-2011, 02:03 PM
From what it sounds like to me, Elway doesn't like Peyton Manning.

strafen
09-10-2011, 02:08 PM
Elway is not saying which QB he's talking about because that gives us a competitive advantage...

hambone13
09-10-2011, 02:12 PM
LOL

Did you hear that sound?

Did you see all the comments supporting all of your glib statements? :thanku: You post everywhere, all the time and almost no one supports you but they do contest you. Do the numbers.... they're Epic.

elsid13
09-10-2011, 02:15 PM
I'd prefer Landry or Luck

Luck most likely will be outside Denver reach, and I don't think Landry is going to be a QB that Elway likes from mobility stand point. Tannehilll comes from Pro-Style system and is above average athlete that I think pro scouts will like.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 02:17 PM
Did you see all the comments supporting all of your glib statements? You post everywhere, all the time and almost no one supports you but they do contest you. Do the numbers.... they're Epic.

That woooooosh! you just heard was dry humor going right over your head. :P

Dedhed
09-10-2011, 02:20 PM
Translation- We WILL draft a QB next year to be our guy!Or...Tebow is that guy once he develops his pocket game a little more.

hambone13
09-10-2011, 02:22 PM
That woooooosh! you just heard was dry humor going right over your head. :P

Wow, now you've really topped me. Must have been so dry it floated with similar particles in conjunction to your logic and wet humor. I'm assuming you'll respond with something as equally intelligent and clever, so let's just leave it to the wind until you have some real weather.

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 02:26 PM
Sounds to me like Elway's (again) telling Tebow (quite specifically) why he isn't "the guy" in Denver yet.... precisely what he needs to work on before he can become "the guy". And the listener could also justifiably reach the conclusion that what remained unsaid is... if Tebow doesn't do that, other options will be explored.

HAT
09-10-2011, 02:27 PM
Elway wants CBs that can cover and make an occasional interception.
It'd be even better if they could seemingly grab them out of mid-air. :thumbs:

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 02:29 PM
Wow, now you've really topped me. Must have been so dry it floated with similar particles in conjunction to your logic and wet humor. I'm assuming you'll respond with something as equally intelligent and clever, so let's just leave it to the wind until you have some real weather.

Dude.

Take one of these:
http://www.mexicanpharmacy.com.mx/images/products/atacand_32x14s.jpg

Take a walk here:
http://www.cvent.com/en/destination-guide/colorado-springs/images/america-beautiful-park.jpg

Then come back and re-read this whole series of exchanges.

Everything will be okay. Really. It will.

Willynowei
09-10-2011, 02:31 PM
he's talking about this kid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2IcJ0tH30&feature=player_embedded

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 02:35 PM
he's talking about this kid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2IcJ0tH30&feature=player_embedded

Ha!

Noooooooo!

Goodness...our franchise has become a joke.

Willynowei
09-10-2011, 02:38 PM
Ha!

Noooooooo!

Goodness...our franchise has become a joke.

I'm not saying the kid is anything close to the duke, but that clip has to give any Denver fan shivers.

What would've happened if Shanny got 3 seasons to groom him?

Eh, we'll never know.

ColoradoDarin
09-10-2011, 02:39 PM
TEs



block




catch

TheReverend
09-10-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm not saying the kid is anything close to the duke, but that clip has to give any Denver fan shivers.

What would've happened if Shanny got 3 seasons to groom him?

Eh, we'll never know.

Wait... he DID have 3 seasons to groom him. It resulted in franchise records, a pro bowl berth and a couple injuries out of a half billion away from not losing a tie breaker to the playoffs.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm not saying the kid is anything close to the duke, but that clip has to give any Denver fan shivers.

What would've happened if Shanny got 3 seasons to groom him?

Eh, we'll never know.

We know what happened instead:
http://cbssports.com/images/nfl/photogallery/Josh_McDaniels_Broncos_Video_Tape_Investigation.jp g

oubronco
09-10-2011, 02:49 PM
Wait... he DID have 3 seasons to groom him. It resulted in franchise records, a pro bowl berth and a couple injuries out of a half billion away from not losing a tie breaker to the playoffs.

Just think what could've been if they would've had a Defense

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 02:50 PM
Just think what could've been if they would've had a Defense

Shanny had loaded up some serious assets.

Then McD promptly wasted them.

Miss I.
09-10-2011, 02:51 PM
http://youtu.be/seKiJQvzpDA


yes, Jay has his strengths, but he does enjoy a good interception or 4.

He's gone, now we have to find another one. Let's look forward and stop wallowing in our losses.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2011, 02:53 PM
Sounds to me like Elway's (again) telling Tebow (quite specifically) why he isn't "the guy" in Denver yet.... precisely what he needs to work on before he can become "the guy". And the listener could also justifiably reach the conclusion that what remained unsaid is... if Tebow doesn't do that, other options will be explored.

This stuff is always on the table and Tebow knows it.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 02:54 PM
http://youtu.be/seKiJQvzpDA


yes, Jay has his strengths, but he does enjoy a good interception or 4.

He's gone, now we have to find another one. Let's look forward and stop wallowing in our losses.

No wallowing, Wonderwoman. Those turns off of the highway got us to the nowhereville we're in now. Now we're waiting for someone to deliver us from Deliverance.

ColoradoDarin
09-10-2011, 02:56 PM
Just think what could've been if they would've had a Defense

I know, I'm still pissed about the whole drafting a QB when Ngata was sitting right there for us!!

Dagmar
09-10-2011, 02:58 PM
He just described Tebow to me, but he's not ready yet.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who read this into it. Seemed pretty simple to me.

Willynowei
09-10-2011, 03:00 PM
Wait... he DID have 3 seasons to groom him. It resulted in franchise records, a pro bowl berth and a couple injuries out of a half billion away from not losing a tie breaker to the playoffs.

Ah forgot about that half season he started..

Yeah, he was breaking out and getting better every week.

It's kind of depressing that Denver the last couple seasons has been the prime example on how to disassemble a talented unit.

EDIT: I want to add that with McDaniels gone, I have reason to be optimistic again. We have two premier rushing ends and we have the best young offensive lineman in the league. Sometimes in the NFL all you need are good linemen to be a great team.

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 03:08 PM
This stuff is always on the table and Tebow knows it.

It's more than fair to Tebow that Elway lays it out on the line (exactly what he's looking for in a starting QB) like this though. That's far better than just vaguely saying "He needs to improve" without specifying which areas need work.

Like Kaylore, I took the remark to mean that Orton isn't a part of next year's plan.

elsid13
09-10-2011, 03:15 PM
I know, I'm still pissed about the whole drafting a QB when Ngata was sitting right there for us!!

The priorities for any team are

1. Franchise QB
2. Defense End that get to the QB
3. Left Tackle
4. Everything else.

Denver didn't have franchise QB and Cutler looked like he had the ability to be one, you make that move every time.

Rock Chalk
09-10-2011, 03:18 PM
Just think what could've been if they would've had a Defense

What could have been if Plummer had an offensive line.

The thing that strikes me is that Denver this last decade has had all the parts for a great team, just never in the same year.

Coyer's defense with Wilson + The current offensive Line + Portis + Plummer (or ****ler if that's your cup of tea) + Champ + Dawkins/Lynch + Dumervil + Von Miller + Pryce

IF we could have ever gotten all of those players on one team that would have been epic.

broncosteven
09-10-2011, 03:18 PM
It's more than fair to Tebow that Elway lays it out on the line (exactly what he's looking for in a starting QB) like this though. That's far better than just vaguely saying "He needs to improve" without specifying which areas need work.

Like Kaylore, I took the remark to mean that Orton isn't a part of next year's plan.

I don't think Orton wants to be here either.

It is really up to Timbo to show enough progress that he can become a pocket passer. He has speed and is an excellent athlete. The lockout killed any chance of him starting this year.

I think Timbo has a decent arm, he just needs to get comfortable reading D's from under center and fixing his delivery enough that he can get the ball out in time.

I don't Timbo will ever totally fix his delivery but they should be able to tweak it enough where he could be effective.

Rock Chalk
09-10-2011, 03:23 PM
I don't think Orton wants to be here either.

It is really up to Timbo to show enough progress that he can become a pocket passer. He has speed and is an excellent athlete. The lockout killed any chance of him starting this year.

I think Timbo has a decent arm, he just needs to get comfortable reading D's from under center and fixing his delivery enough that he can get the ball out in time.

I don't Timbo will ever totally fix his delivery but they should be able to tweak it enough where he could be effective.

Tebow's problem is that he spent all of college being a college QB and never once was taught anything remotely close to what it takes to be an NFL QB. Taking snaps under center, reading defenses, throwing from the pocket, proper footwork, proper mechanics. Meyer was concerned with winning in college, not developing his talent for the next level. That's fine and good for most positions but the QB position in College is the biggest change from teh QB position in the NFL.

And Tebow spent 4 years playing the college game without any regard to playing in the NFL. Tebow is going to need 4-6 years to really be ready for the NFL because of his lack of collegiate coaching and that may not be a bad thing. Aaron Rodgers sat for 4 years, and didnt really truly break out for 2 more years. ANd now he's a freaking stud and arguably the best QB in the NFL. Maybe (doubtful) Tebow can do the same thing.

Dedhed
09-10-2011, 03:28 PM
Shanny had loaded up some serious assets.


Nate Webster?

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 03:40 PM
I don't think Orton wants to be here either.

It is really up to Timbo to show enough progress that he can become a pocket passer. He has speed and is an excellent athlete. The lockout killed any chance of him starting this year.

I think Timbo has a decent arm, he just needs to get comfortable reading D's from under center and fixing his delivery enough that he can get the ball out in time.

I don't Timbo will ever totally fix his delivery but they should be able to tweak it enough where he could be effective.

But why would Orton want to be in Denver, where he's never been appreciated... much less embraced? I mean people have b*tched about him from the day it was announced that he was going to come to Denver. It wasn't his fault that the way he was brought in... was controversial. All he did was come to town and do the job he was being paid to do. But I don't blame him a bit for wanting to move on to another situation.

Yeah, what Elway's done is to put the ball squarely in Tebow's court. He's publicly (and probably privately as well) told Tebow exactly what he needs to do in order to be Elway's QBOTF and now Tebow will either do what he needs to do or he won't. His success or failure (in Denver) is entirely up to him. He'll either show enough progress during the season to convince the coaches that he can start next year... or we'll be drafting a QB next April. But that's up to Tim.

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 03:44 PM
Tebow's problem is that he spent all of college being a college QB and never once was taught anything remotely close to what it takes to be an NFL QB. Taking snaps under center, reading defenses, throwing from the pocket, proper footwork, proper mechanics. Meyer was concerned with winning in college, not developing his talent for the next level. That's fine and good for most positions but the QB position in College is the biggest change from teh QB position in the NFL.

And Tebow spent 4 years playing the college game without any regard to playing in the NFL. Tebow is going to need 4-6 years to really be ready for the NFL because of his lack of collegiate coaching and that may not be a bad thing. Aaron Rodgers sat for 4 years, and didnt really truly break out for 2 more years. ANd now he's a freaking stud and arguably the best QB in the NFL. Maybe (doubtful) Tebow can do the same thing.

If it takes Tebow that long (4-6 years), it's my opinion that he'll be with another team; not Denver. I think the Broncos want him to be ready next year or they'll go in another direction (spend a high draft pick on a QB).

Dedhed
09-10-2011, 03:45 PM
I read it the complete opposite. He used the word athlete and he wants a passer that can move. Orton is non of those things.

Me too. It rules out Orton completely. It Doesn't rule out Teboe at all. He mentioned athleticism and leadership in addition to pocket passing. If there is a more athletic leader at the position than Tebow, I haven't seen him yet.

WolfpackGuy
09-10-2011, 03:58 PM
Orton said he didn't give a **** what the fans thought.

I guess we are a -6 in his mind.

His tour of duty in Denver can't end soon enough.

McDman
09-10-2011, 04:16 PM
Orton said he didn't give a **** what the fans thought.

I guess we are a -6 in his mind.

His tour of duty in Denver can't end soon enough.

Why should he? Denver has shown him that the majority of people don't want him here, he's been treated like sh1t. He has no reasons to care what the fans think.

peacepipe
09-10-2011, 04:22 PM
Or...Tebow is that guy once he develops his pocket game a little more.

I don't think elway is going to wait that long.

oubronco
09-10-2011, 04:23 PM
Elways a magician and he will get Luck no matter what it takes

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 04:23 PM
Why should he? Denver has shown him that the majority of people don't want him here, he's been treated like sh1t. He has no reasons to care what the fans think.

He has given the fans no reason to be endeared to him.

He has been a loser with an entitlement mentality.

He understands that its up to him to change those perceptions. Its just that he doesn't really care. And that's the problem.

Play2win
09-10-2011, 04:24 PM
He just wants a complete NFL QB.

There is not one on our roster right now.

There is a possibility that Tebow could develop into one. You could say Tebow has the POTENTIAL to be a complete NFL QB, but he is not right now, and he may or may not in the near or more distant future.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 04:25 PM
Elways a magician and he will get Luck no matter what it takes

Nah, I don't think that we're in play for that guy.

The Broncos are trying to win as many games as possible this season. That runs counter to the idea that Denver wants to draft Luck or any other high QB pick in next year's draft.

I honestly think that Tebow is their guy.

oubronco
09-10-2011, 04:26 PM
Nah, I don't think that we're in play for that guy.

The Broncos are trying to win as many games as possible this season. That runs counter to the idea that Denver wants to draft Luck or any other high QB pick in next year's draft.

I honestly think that Tebow is their guy.

I see no more than 4-5 wins and that's close enough to at least try

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 04:28 PM
I see no more than 4-5 wins and that's close enough to at least try

It just doesn't make sense that a rebuilding team who has talked incessantly about using the draft to rebuild the depth and quality of the team would dump a boat load of picks to take a gamble on a position where you already have three players who can do the job.

oubronco
09-10-2011, 04:33 PM
It just doesn't make sense that a rebuilding team who has talked incessantly about using the draft to rebuild the depth and quality of the team would dump a boat load of picks to take a gamble on a position where you already have three players who can do the job.

2 of the 3 probably won't be here next year and the other is a big question mark

I can see Elway doing it

TonyR
09-10-2011, 04:33 PM
he's talking about this kid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2IcJ0tH30&feature=player_embedded

Do you find it at all interesting that Chicago has this All World, veteran QB whose c*ck some of you can't seem to get out of your mouths and yet the Bears aren't considered much of a contender again this year? You know, like all the other teams with top QB's? (Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, San Diego, etc.) What's up with that?

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 04:34 PM
2 of the 3 probably won't be here next year and the other is a big question mark

I can see Elway doing it

Ditka set the Saints back years by trading a draft for Ricky Williams.

I think that Elway is smarter than that.

oubronco
09-10-2011, 04:37 PM
Ditka set the Saints back years by trading a draft for Ricky Williams.

I think that Elway is smarter than that.

It won't take that much and noones going to pull a Ditka for anyone

TheReverend
09-10-2011, 04:41 PM
Do you find it at all interesting that Chicago has this All World, veteran QB whose c*ck some of you can't seem to get out of your mouths and yet the Bears aren't considered much of a contender again this year? You know, like all the other teams with top QB's? (Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, San Diego, etc.) What's up with that?

SB champs are kinda in the same division...

peacepipe
09-10-2011, 04:50 PM
Ditka set the Saints back years by trading a draft for Ricky Williams.

I think that Elway is smarter than that.you're right,not for a RB.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 04:52 PM
you're right,not for a RB.

Andrew Luck will not play for the Denver Broncos.

peacepipe
09-10-2011, 04:53 PM
Andrew Luck will not play for the Denver Broncos.

If they're not in a position to draft him.

Jay3
09-10-2011, 04:54 PM
It won't take that much and noones going to pull a Ditka for anyone

It will take that much. The top pick in this year's draft will be worth a king's ransom. The combination of the new CBA (low salary) and Andrew Luck together.

Heck, I think I'd rather trade the pick for a king's ransom if the Broncos came by it naturally. Load up.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 04:55 PM
It will take that much. The top pick in this year's draft will be worth a king's ransom. The combination of the new CBA (low salary) and Andrew Luck together.

Heck, I think I'd rather trade the pick for a king's ransom if the Broncos came by it naturally. Load up.

No doubt.

This team does not need another quarterback.

peacepipe
09-10-2011, 04:57 PM
No doubt.

This team does not need another quarterback.It will at the end of the season.

DENVERDUI55
09-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Elways a magician and he will get Luck no matter what it takes

As much as I want that to happen they would of traded Kyle for whatever and played tebow. That would of got us on the running. Kyle will win a game or two more that will take us out of running. Will be hard to lose more than colts if manning sits all year.

Dedhed
09-10-2011, 05:07 PM
I don't think elway is going to wait that long.

He should take a look at his own career then and realize that would be stupid.

snowspot66
09-10-2011, 05:11 PM
Guess Peyton Manning wouldn't have worked out here :p. There's many types of QB's than can win games. Elway seems to be looking for a clone of himself.

For all his greatness his inability to work well outside the pocket is part of why he's been such a horrible post season QB. Even during their Super Bowl year he was luke warm. That was the Bob Sanders show.

McDman
09-10-2011, 05:11 PM
He has given the fans no reason to be endeared to him.

He has been a loser with an entitlement mentality.

He understands that its up to him to change those perceptions. Its just that he doesn't really care. And that's the problem.

Just because you don't like the guy as a football player don't make sh1t up about him. he has never come off as someone entitled to anything. But you're right, it's definitely his fault our defense was beyond pathetic last year.

People's hate for the guy is f***ing pathetic.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Just because you don't like the guy as a football player don't make sh1t up about him. he has never come off as someone entitled to anything. But you're right, it's definitely his fault our defense was beyond pathetic last year.

People's hate for the guy is ****ing pathetic.

Nobody hates Orton. That's too strong of an emotion to feel about the guy.

He just kind of is what he is. Nothing special, nothing horrible. Wont win you any games, but will lose you some on occasion when the bottom drops out.

He just isn't a player to be excited or upset about.

If we had a dominant defense, Orton would be an alright player to have at QB. But if you're counting on him to be a leader and to make things happen to dictate the course of the game, you're going to lose alot of games. Just like he has in Denver.

He feels some strong emotions for Denver fans though, and they're not positive. I don't want a guy like that QB'ing the team I pull for. He's ungrateful to the people that pay his salary. He delivers the fans losses, fans complain that the team sucks, then he complains about the fans. Douchemagic.

peacepipe
09-10-2011, 05:33 PM
He should take a look at his own career then and realize that would be stupid.

elway already knew how to throw from the pocket when he came into the NFL.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 05:35 PM
elway already knew how to throw from the pocket when he came into the NFL.

Yeah, he just didn't know which guy on the line hiked the ball.

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 05:53 PM
Nobody hates Orton. That's too strong of an emotion to feel about the guy.

He just kind of is what he is. Nothing special, nothing horrible. Wont win you any games, but will lose you some on occasion when the bottom drops out.

He just isn't a player to be excited or upset about.

If we had a dominant defense, Orton would be an alright player to have at QB. But if you're counting on him to be a leader and to make things happen to dictate the course of the game, you're going to lose alot of games. Just like he has in Denver.

He feels some strong emotions for Denver fans though, and they're not positive. I don't want a guy like that QB'ing the team I pull for. He's ungrateful to the people that pay his salary. He delivers the fans losses, fans complain that the team sucks, then he complains about the fans. Douchemagic.

I didn't view Orton's comments as negative toward (all... or "in general") Broncos fans; it seemed to me that what he was trying to say was that he was focused on doing the best job he can for the people who sign his paychecks (trying to win games) rather than on the clamor of the very-vocal group of fans who want Tebow to start regardless of anything else. Basically he meant that the "QB controversy" or the possible booing of "Tebow-only" fans wasn't going to distract him from trying to do his job.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 05:59 PM
I didn't view Orton's comments as negative toward (all... or "in general") Broncos fans; it seemed to me that what he was trying to say was that he was focused on doing the best job he can for the people who sign his paychecks (trying to win games) rather than on the clamor of the very-vocal group of fans who want Tebow to start regardless of anything else. Basically he meant that the "QB controversy" or the possible booing of "Tebow-only" fans wasn't going to distract him from trying to do his job.

Well, he did say that he doesn't play for the fans. Thats a pretty declarative, specific statement.

Given his poor record as a starter in Denver, it looks like he really is just playing for the paychecks.

errand
09-10-2011, 06:13 PM
Orton said he didn't give a **** what the fans thought.

I guess we are a -6 in his mind.

His tour of duty in Denver can't end soon enough.

The context of orton's comment was he doesn't care what the fans think when it comes to who should be the starting quarterback for the denver broncos.... you wanna try and spin that he doesn't care about the fans...

By the way the fans are not his boss.... john fox is

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 06:13 PM
Well, he did say that he doesn't play for the fans. Thats a pretty declarative, specific statement.

Given his poor record as a starter in Denver, it looks like he really is just playing for the paychecks.

Which only acknowledges that the fans aren't making depth chart decisions and/or play calls. Oh, well. When we have fans posting publicly on message boards that they hope Orton sustains a career-ending injury (just to get him out of the way so Tebow can start), do you really expect him to get nostalgic or tearful over the thought of moving on? I don't.

It wasn't his idea to come to Denver... the Bears and Broncos coaches/FOs made that decision. He's stuck with it just like we fans are.

errand
09-10-2011, 06:17 PM
Nobody hates Orton. That's too strong of an emotion to feel about the guy

Are you f****** crazy? You need to go back and read every derogatory post made about kyle orton...... what's sad is that they hate him because of who he isn't.

errand
09-10-2011, 06:20 PM
By the way epic.... the fans do not pay orton's salary..... pat bowlen does. The fans pay Pat bowlen's salary

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 06:31 PM
Which only acknowledges that the fans aren't making depth chart decisions and/or play calls. Oh, well. When we have fans posting publicly on message boards that they hope Orton sustains a career-ending injury (just to get him out of the way so Tebow can start), do you really expect him to get nostalgic or tearful over the thought of moving on? I don't.

It wasn't his idea to come to Denver... the Bears and Broncos coaches/FOs made that decision. He's stuck with it just like we fans are.

I doubt that Orton reads this message board.

However, his enmity towards fans who gravitate toward someone who plays for the fans seemingly as much as he plays for his team and himself, says alot about Orton.

If he is jealous that Tim Tebow has legions of fans because of things like this:
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4sGv2Zw-WQw?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4sGv2Zw-WQw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

...that resulted in this:
http://img2-cdn.newser.com/square-image/47439-20110331234255/florida-tebow-are-champs.jpeg

Then Orton is a bit of a turd and certainly isn't someone that any fan should feel motivated to go out of their way to defend.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2011, 06:34 PM
I'll tell you what you need to know about Orton the man. He's an asshole. He rained down 3 golf balls on the group in front of him on the golf course. Once is an accident. 3 times? Asshole.

Dedhed
09-10-2011, 06:41 PM
elway already knew how to throw from the pocket when he came into the NFL.
lulz

Dedhed
09-10-2011, 06:44 PM
I'll tell you what you need to know about Orton the man. He's an a-hole. He rained down 3 golf balls on the group in front of him on the golf course. Once is an accident. 3 times? a-hole.
I'd start sending them back his way after the 2nd. Not kidding.

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 08:31 PM
I doubt that Orton reads this message board.

However, his enmity towards fans who gravitate toward someone who plays for the fans seemingly as much as he plays for his team and himself, says alot about Orton.

If he is jealous that Tim Tebow has legions of fans because of things like this:
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4sGv2Zw-WQw?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4sGv2Zw-WQw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

...that resulted in this:
http://img2-cdn.newser.com/square-image/47439-20110331234255/florida-tebow-are-champs.jpeg

Then Orton is a bit of a turd and certainly isn't someone that any fan should feel motivated to go out of their way to defend.

We honestly don't know if he does or does not read this message board. It's not inconceivable that he "could".

At any rate... there are some "Tebow-biased" posters here who exaggerate every single little thing Orton does or says (or doesn't do or say), extrapolating it into something negative whether that was the intention or not... and going on endlessly about it. Some are outraged that Orton dares to go out there and play better than Tebow in camp. What an a-hole! How dare he? (nevermind that 's what he's paid to do).

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 08:34 PM
I'll tell you what you need to know about Orton the man. He's an a-hole. He rained down 3 golf balls on the group in front of him on the golf course. Once is an accident. 3 times? a-hole.

That happens. Did it occur to the group in front of him to offer to let his party play through? That's what I would have done.

errand
09-10-2011, 08:46 PM
That happens. Did it occur to the group in front of him to offer to let his party play through? That's what I would have done.

I tried to play golf one day... I did not get a hole in 1 however I did hit a man with a golf ball and that is much more satisfying...

I know I was supposed to yell fore, but I was too busy mumbling "there's no way that's ball is gonna hit him"

RIP Mitch Hedberg

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 09:11 PM
We honestly don't know if he does or does not read this message board. It's not inconceivable that he "could".

At any rate... there are some "Tebow-biased" posters here who exaggerate every single little thing Orton does or says (or doesn't do or say), extrapolating it into something negative whether that was the intention or not... and going on endlessly about it. Some are outraged that Orton dares to go out there and play better than Tebow in camp. What an a-hole! How dare he? (nevermind that 's what he's paid to do).

Its obvious as to why people would be biased toward Tebow. Beyond the fact that he's an all-around good dude who goes out of his way to let fans know that he cares, there are several reasons.

I wouldn't blame fans for wanting to move on from a player who has established a record of losing, who has been aloof and even rude in his public statements toward fans ( I mean really, if you don't like Broncos fans, why do you need to make snarky public statements to make them dislike you more?) , etc. I pull for him because I pull for the Broncos. Outside of football I hope he has a good life. But if he didn't play for the Broncos I would feel no sentimental sense of loss while watching him in another uniform. I'm certain that many other fans feel that way. Its Orton's legacy here.

Some players play for the logo...they feel pride in the franchise and want to win for themselves and the fans so that they can look up at the Ring of Fame around the field and feel like they are doing their part to honor the franchise. Rahim Morris, for instance, probably loves that he plays for the Broncos. I imagine that he has looked around and thought "Steve Atwater did his thing right here." Orton does not appear to be one of those players.

He has every right to act that way, and fans have every right to want someone who will bring honor back to the franchise, and Tebow is certainly the kind of guy who wants to fight for honor and tradition and for the fans as well.

TailgateNut
09-10-2011, 09:15 PM
......am I hearing flutes and violins in the background playing the tune to Kumbaya?

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 09:32 PM
I tried to play golf one day... I did not get a hole in 1 however I did hit a man with a golf ball and that is much more satisfying...

I know I was supposed to yell fore, but I was too busy mumbling "there's no way that's ball is gonna hit him"

RIP Mitch Hedberg

I've been hit by a golf ball straight off the tee.... the first time I was ever on a golf course. Stings like hell and I had a bruise for 3 weeks. But I was fortunate that it hit me in the shoulder and not in the head.

HAT
09-10-2011, 09:37 PM
I love how people actually think Elway is gonna draft a QB next year.....It's pretty obvious that #7 loves Tebow more than MacGuano.

MLB & a DT are the first 2 picks next year......Denver is stone cold SET at QB.

mhgaffney
09-10-2011, 09:38 PM
In Denver we love QBs who can scramble, pass on the run, evade the rush, and improvise to make it happen.

To think we could have had M Vick...

SoCalBronco
09-10-2011, 09:40 PM
Trade for Jay.

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 09:42 PM
Its obvious as to why people would be biased toward Tebow. Beyond the fact that he's an all-around good dude who goes out of his way to let fans know that he cares, there are several reasons.

I wouldn't blame fans for wanting to move on from a player who has established a record of losing, who has been aloof and even rude in his public statements toward fans ( I mean really, if you don't like Broncos fans, why do you need to make snarky public statements to make them dislike you more?) , etc. I pull for him because I pull for the Broncos. Outside of football I hope he has a good life. But if he didn't play for the Broncos I would feel no sentimental sense of loss while watching him in another uniform. I'm certain that many other fans feel that way. Its Orton's legacy here.

Some players play for the logo...they feel pride in the franchise and want to win for themselves and the fans so that they can look up at the Ring of Fame around the field and feel like they are doing their part to honor the franchise. Rahim Morris, for instance, probably loves that he plays for the Broncos. I imagine that he has looked around and thought "Steve Atwater did his thing right here." Orton does not appear to be one of those players.

He has every right to act that way, and fans have every right to want someone who will bring honor back to the franchise, and Tebow is certainly the kind of guy who wants to fight for honor and tradition and for the fans as well.

You're acting like every Broncos fan is biased toward Tebow. And that's simply not true. Some are; some are not.

But the whole "Orton's a bad person" notion... just because he may not be actively wooing (or kissing the collective behinds of) a fanbase that has been openly hostile to him from Day one.. is just silly. Yes, someone is responsible for the fact that in 2011, Kyle Orton is the best option in Denver at starting QB. That person is Josh McDaniels. Aim the vitriol where it belongs. The Patriot did this to us; Kyle didn't.

Me, I'm pragmatic. Orton will be gone next year. Quinn will probably be gone too. And I'm OK with that. Tebow may or may not win the starting job in 2012... or he may soon be gone as well. I'm also OK with that, as long as we have someone on the roster who can start. Someone better than all 3 that McDaniels left us.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 09:54 PM
You're acting like every Broncos fan is biased toward Tebow. And that's simply not true. Some are; some are not.

No, I'm simply explaining why fans would be biased toward Tebow. There are legitimate reasons. You had suggested that Orton was in some way justified in his stated displeasure in Broncos fans because Broncos fans wanted Tebow instead of him.

I think that most Broncos fans would rather have Tebow play this year, but some of those Broncos fans aren't convinced that Tebow is ready.

But the whole "Orton's a bad person" notion... just because he may not be actively wooing (or kissing the collective behinds of) a fanbase that has been openly hostile to him from Day one.. is just silly. Yes, someone is responsible for the fact that in 2011, Kyle Orton is the best option in Denver at starting QB. That person is Josh McDaniels. Aim the vitriol where it belongs. The Patriot did this to us; Kyle didn't.

Kyle has had every opportunity to woo Broncos fans. The best way to do that is to win ball games. He has failed to deliver in that regard. His loss against Oakland last season was a deal-breaker for many Broncos fans, which was compounded by his expressed nonchanance about the deal. So if you're not winning ball games, the best way to woo fans is to acknowledge their concerns and to address them in a way that inspires trust or faith or hope. Orton addresses fan concerns with "I don't care what you think." Not smart.

Right now Kyle is a mercenary. He's just a hired gun with no real allegiance...and he has behaved that way over his tenure here.

If he's going to act like a mercenary, he shouldn't get upset when people rally behind a leader who wants to proudly carry the flag.

HAT
09-10-2011, 10:08 PM
He has failed to deliver in that regard. His loss against Oakland last season was a deal-breaker for many Broncos fans, which was compounded by his expressed nonchanance about the deal.

Hell no....Real football players should be nonchalant about every loss.


"Meh....**** 'em, they got lucky"

Only fags like Rivers & Cutler get all sand-vag in public.

HAT
09-10-2011, 10:08 PM
Trade for Jay.

Feely sucks bro. Do not want.

TailgateNut
09-10-2011, 10:21 PM
I've been hit by a golf ball straight off the tee.... the first time I was ever on a golf course. Stings like hell and I had a bruise for 3 weeks. But I was fortunate that it hit me in the shoulder and not in the head.


Was McD in the group behind you?:~ohyah!:

TailgateNut
09-10-2011, 10:22 PM
In Denver we love QBs who can scramble, pass on the run, evade the rush, and improvise to make it happen.

To think we could have had M Vick...

Even your football takes suck balls.

TailgateNut
09-10-2011, 10:23 PM
Trade for Jay.

Fuque THAT!

OABB
09-10-2011, 10:29 PM
Trade for Jay.

did elway not specify that a qb should play well in big games?

SoCalBronco
09-10-2011, 10:31 PM
did elway not specify that a qb should play well in big games?

Actually, one of the few things Elway has said this offseason that I agree with is that trading Jay was a mistake. Props to him for admitting the obvious.

TailgateNut
09-10-2011, 10:34 PM
SoCal......Your JayLove cracks me up.


Hey, the Bears colors are similar to ours. Hint, hint....

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 10:38 PM
No, I'm simply explaining why fans would be biased toward Tebow. There are legitimate reasons. You had suggested that Orton was in some way justified in his stated displeasure in Broncos fans because Broncos fans wanted Tebow instead of him.

I think that most Broncos fans would rather have Tebow play this year, but some of those Broncos fans aren't convinced that Tebow is ready.

Actually the fanbase is entirely divided and polarized on Tebow. But we "get it" that you are biased toward Tebow (and hence, against Orton) and would rather have him play this year. ;)



Kyle has had every opportunity to woo Broncos fans. The best way to do that is to win ball games. He has failed to deliver in that regard. His loss against Oakland last season was a deal-breaker for many Broncos fans, which was compounded by his expressed nonchanance about the deal. So if you're not winning ball games, the best way to woo fans is to acknowledge their concerns and to address them in a way that inspires trust or faith or hope. Orton addresses fan concerns with "I don't care what you think." Not smart.

Right now Kyle is a mercenary. He's just a hired gun with no real allegiance...and he has behaved that way over his tenure here.

If he's going to act like a mercenary, he shouldn't get upset when people rally behind a leader who wants to proudly carry the flag.

Nothing Orton could have done would have made the slightest bit of difference with the rabid Tebow fans. The fact that he stands between Tebow and the starting job automatically makes Orton the Antichrist in their eyes and they hate him for nothing more than being there and doing what he's paid to do.

Orton's been a mercenary from the moment the Cutler trade was made. It's my contention that he tried to win games (your post suggests that he didn't even try). The Oakland loss was not "his" loss; it was a team loss (football is a team sport).

Anytime a team's defense ranks dead last in the league in both yards and points given up... that team is going to have double-digits in the "L" column. And blaming the QB for every loss is short-sighted and unfair. Again, football's a team sport and there's plenty of blame to go around.

Blueflame
09-10-2011, 10:39 PM
Was McD in the group behind you?:~ohyah!:

LOL No... but can I blame him anyway? ;D

Rock Chalk
09-10-2011, 10:54 PM
I took it to mean that there isn't anyone on the roster that John feels is the answer right now.

That's it.

Now, if Orton goes out there and lights it up and we are exceptionally better this year OR if Tebow ever figures out how to play the QB position we might have that person but I dont think John feels the TYPE of QB he wants is on the roster.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 11:00 PM
Hell no....Real football players should be nonchalant about every loss.


"Meh....**** 'em, they got lucky"

Only fags like Rivers & Cutler get all sand-vag in public.

Defiance and nonchalance are two different things.

Swedish Extrovert
09-10-2011, 11:10 PM
Actually, one of the few things Elway has said this offseason that I agree with is that trading Jay was a mistake. Props to him for admitting the obvious.

Footballnewsnow.com wrote that when asked by a Denver radio station host if Cutler would still be a Bronco if he were in charge at the time, Elway said, "There's a good possibility, yeah. I would say, to be honest, he's the type of player you don't give up on as easily as we gave up on."

I'm all for starting Orton this year, but I would argue that this same statement by Elway concerning Jay, " he's the type of player you don't give up on as easily as we gave up on" would apply to Tebow.

Timmy is elite talent at the NFL QB position, he just needs to get it down as a pocket passer. If OP is true, then Timmy has potential to be what Elway wants.

Quinn is pretty quick, too, and is pretty much a pocket passer. I know he puttered out against AZ, but I wouldn't give up on Quinn quite yet, either, especially since his trade value is shot. Quinn can scramble when he needs to. He just didn't... Quinn needs to use that talent to scramble out of the pocket, rather than force so many rushed throws.

Swedish Extrovert
09-10-2011, 11:15 PM
I know 40 time isn't the say-all end-all barometer by which to judge a scrambler, but it does offer some perspective:

Quinn had a 4.68...
Cutler's was 4.83....
Tim Tebow's was 4.62...
Kyle Orton's was a terrible 5.09

Tebow and Quinn are also the most physically strong of the bunch as well.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 11:17 PM
Actually the fanbase is entirely divided and polarized on Tebow. But we "get it" that you are biased toward Tebow (and hence, against Orton) and would rather have him play this year. ;)

I'm fairly certain that the only people who actually want to see Orton to play want to see him play because they hate Tebow.

On the other hand, you have the contingent of fans who are content with Orton because they are uncertain that Tebow is able to do the job. But I doubt that those fans want to go out and buy an Orton jersey. Those fans would rather Tebow play if they felt that Tebow and Orton are equivalent propositions. I'm pretty sure that this group makes up the majority of people who are okay with Orton playing QB this year.

As for a bias, I think that you are the only pro-Orton-biased person here who is not a downright bigot. I don't know, maybe you are a bigot? ;)


Nothing Orton could have done would have made the slightest bit of difference with the rabid Tebow fans. The fact that he stands between Tebow and the starting job automatically makes Orton the Antichrist in their eyes and they hate him for nothing more than being there and doing what he's paid to do.

That's absolutely untrue. Had Orton established himself as a winner here, there would be much, much less momentum for Tebow. Orton has not done that. Broncos fans want wins. They don't want 59-14 home losses to a terrible Raiders team.

Orton's been a mercenary from the moment the Cutler trade was made. It's my contention that he tried to win games (your post suggests that he didn't even try). The Oakland loss was not "his" loss; it was a team loss (football is a team sport).

Anytime a team's defense ranks dead last in the league in both yards and points given up... that team is going to have double-digits in the "L" column. And blaming the QB for every loss is short-sighted and unfair. Again, football's a team sport and there's plenty of blame to go around.

Orton is equally responsible for his horrible record, and he bears more of the blame than anyone else at any other position. No other player touches the ball every time they are on the field. No other player has had so many NFL rules designed to increase their productivity and to keep them healthy. No other player is given as much responsibility.

What does Orton do with that responsibility? 3-and-out. 3-and-out. Pick 6. 3-and-out. Fumble. 59-14. By not converting plays, Orton is passing the responsibility on to a defense that everyone knows sucks. Orton isn't just some innocent bystander here. He's the crux of everything that happens on offense.

And somehow he remains apathetic about failure. Maybe that's why Broncos fans are ready to move on from him (having Orton back next year would be considered a failure and a source of displeasure by Broncos fans), and not some weird conspiracy about Tebow fans.

Swedish Extrovert
09-10-2011, 11:22 PM
I know 40 time isn't the say-all end-all barometer by which to judge a scrambler, but it does offer some perspective:

Quinn had a 4.68...
Cutler's was 4.83....
Tim Tebow's was 4.62...
Kyle Orton's was a terrible 5.09

Tebow and Quinn are also the most physically strong of the bunch as well.


To me, a scrambler is an athlete... as opposed to a cerebral player, ie Tom Brady. Elway wants both.

Bench reps:
Brady Quinn: 24
Jay Cutler: 23
Tim Tebow: 28
Kyle Orton: 20

Looks like Tebow is the best athlete, followed by Quinn, then Cutler... Orton a very distant 4th.

Also, finding Jay Cutler's bench reps was quite difficult... just try to google "Jay Cutler bench press", lol.

epicSocialism4tw
09-10-2011, 11:25 PM
I know 40 time isn't the say-all end-all barometer by which to judge a scrambler, but it does offer some perspective:

Quinn had a 4.68...
Cutler's was 4.83....
Tim Tebow's was 4.62...
Kyle Orton's was a terrible 5.09

Tebow and Quinn are also the most physically strong of the bunch as well.

Where Tebow separates himself from other QB's isn't straight line speed.

Tebow's lateral agility, explosiveness, and athletic power are elite.

Swedish Extrovert
09-10-2011, 11:27 PM
Where Tebow separates himself from other QB's isn't straight line speed.

Tebow's lateral agility, explosiveness, and athletic power are elite.

I'm arguing that we shouldn't give up on Tebow just yet. I'm on your side dude.

Edit - this goes both ways, though... I think Brady Quinn can still be a very good NFL QB.

Gort
09-10-2011, 11:42 PM
Actually, one of the few things Elway has said this offseason that I agree with is that trading Jay was a mistake. Props to him for admitting the obvious.

if the Broncos ever needed a guy to quit on them during the playoffs, Frown Cannon was that guy.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/23/jay-cutler-branded-a-gutless-quitter-by-fellow-players-on-twitte/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.aolnews.com/media/2011/01/012311-cutler-307.jpg

epicSocialism4tw
09-11-2011, 12:07 AM
I'm arguing that we shouldn't give up on Tebow just yet. I'm on your side dude.

Edit - this goes both ways, though... I think Brady Quinn can still be a very good NFL QB.

I wasn't being combative...just talking about what you had wrote. Ha!

Internetz 4 teh lulz.

Archer81
09-11-2011, 12:14 AM
In Denver we love QBs who can scramble, pass on the run, evade the rush, and improvise to make it happen.

To think we could have had M Vick...


The snozzberries taste like snozzberries...


:Broncos:

BroncoLover
09-11-2011, 12:19 AM
Translation: We don't have a QB.

Agreed. Cheaps dont have a QB.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 12:54 AM
I'm fairly certain that the only people who actually want to see Orton to play want to see him play because they hate Tebow.

On the other hand, you have the contingent of fans who are content with Orton because they are uncertain that Tebow is able to do the job. But I doubt that those fans want to go out and buy an Orton jersey. Those fans would rather Tebow play if they felt that Tebow and Orton are equivalent propositions. I'm pretty sure that this group makes up the majority of people who are okay with Orton playing QB this year.

As for a bias, I think that you are the only pro-Orton-biased person here who is not a downright bigot. I don't know, maybe you are a bigot? ;)




That's absolutely untrue. Had Orton established himself as a winner here, there would be much, much less momentum for Tebow. Orton has not done that. Broncos fans want wins. They don't want 59-14 home losses to a terrible Raiders team.



Orton is equally responsible for his horrible record, and he bears more of the blame than anyone else at any other position. No other player touches the ball every time they are on the field. No other player has had so many NFL rules designed to increase their productivity and to keep them healthy. No other player is given as much responsibility.

What does Orton do with that responsibility? 3-and-out. 3-and-out. Pick 6. 3-and-out. Fumble. 59-14. By not converting plays, Orton is passing the responsibility on to a defense that everyone knows sucks. Orton isn't just some innocent bystander here. He's the crux of everything that happens on offense.

And somehow he remains apathetic about failure. Maybe that's why Broncos fans are ready to move on from him (having Orton back next year would be considered a failure and a source of displeasure by Broncos fans), and not some weird conspiracy about Tebow fans.

I'm actually completely neutral about all 4 of our QBs. I want the one that the coaches believe gives us the best chance of winning football games on the field. I don't have a "dog in this fight" and I won't be buying an "Orton" or a "Tebow" jersey. If I were going to buy a Broncos QB's jersey it would be a #7.... because I know he won't be playing for another team... perhaps even a division rival... next week or next year.

Dunno where claims of bigotry are entering this discussion... unless you're suggesting religious intolerance is an issue? Any bias of that nature I might have is... my opinion is that religious faith should be intensely personal; between each individual and God. Proselytizing annoys me as it inherently suggests that one's existing beliefs are "inferior" to those of the proselytizer.

No. There was always going to be a call for Tebow regardless of whatever Orton did. There always is when you draft a player who was unusually high-profile in college. Tebow has brought with him an influx of (college football) fans who couldn't care less about the Denver Broncos and would have no clue who Floyd Little was. And these fans want to see Tebow on the field even if that meant chaos and discontent in the locker room and lost football games for the team. They don't see... or care about... the big picture.

Dunno that I've ever seen the claim before that it's the QB's fault that the defense ranks 32nd in the league in yards and points given up. We'll have to agree to disagree that the defensive struggles were Orton's fault (I blame the injury to Dumervil for a lot of it, fwiw).

Bottom line? Like it or not, this team needs Orton this year. Hopefully we have better options next year.

Durango
09-11-2011, 12:54 AM
I'm fairly certain that the only people who actually want to see Orton to play want to see him play because they hate Tebow.



Not true at all from my perspective. I like Orton and I like Tebow, but according to the coaching staff, Orton gives Denver the best chance to win now. I'm ok with that, regardless of the personality factors.

I also believe Tebow will get his shot and contribute this year in special packages. I like this coaching staff top to bottom. I think they actually know what they're doing, and will figure out ways to use the talent they have.

baja
09-11-2011, 01:06 AM
Well any way you slice it we are two seasons away from a pretty darn good team.

epicSocialism4tw
09-11-2011, 01:10 AM
Not true at all from my perspective. I like Orton and I like Tebow, but according to the coaching staff, Orton gives Denver the best chance to win now. I'm ok with that, regardless of the personality factors.

I also believe Tebow will get his shot and contribute this year in special packages. I like this coaching staff top to bottom. I think they actually know what they're doing, and will figure out ways to use the talent they have.

Yeah, you fit into the other description of people who would have preferred Tebow, but aren't certain that he could do the job right now.

With the description you are referring to, I was talking about people who would probably be upset if Tebow beat out Orton.

elsid13
09-11-2011, 05:11 AM
Yeah, he just didn't know which guy on the line hiked the ball.

Yes as rookie making his first start against Pittsburgh, he made a mistake. But Elway's situation and Tebow's are not the same. Everyone knew Elway was the ultimate QB prospect and it was just a matter of time for him to become great, Tebow doesn't share that acknowledgment of folks around the league.

FireFly
09-11-2011, 05:28 AM
I'd rather just win.

In the pocket, out of the pocket, I don't care. If the guys a statue and wins - I'll take it, if he throws ducks all day and yet wins, I'll take it.

Win. Period.

Jake Plummer = winner :strong:

strafen
09-11-2011, 06:42 AM
Jake Plummer = winner :strong:**** that! ugh!~thwack

Cito Pelon
09-11-2011, 07:30 AM
If it takes Tebow that long (4-6 years), it's my opinion that he'll be with another team; not Denver. I think the Broncos want him to be ready next year or they'll go in another direction (spend a high draft pick on a QB).

I think Tebow will be ready next year. He was making some progress this PS with his dropbacks, delivery, footwork. And he had decent success, made some pretty passes, made some plays with his feet/athleticism so he should feel confident if he works hard on the details he'll be ready to lead the team out of the gate next year.

I think come next April the BBT will have confidence in Tebow to be the starter also. I hope so, because that's the best scenario, don't want to see a high pick for another QB.

TonyR
09-11-2011, 07:30 AM
SB champs are kinda in the same division...

This would be a legit excuse if there wasn't a Wild Card. But the fact is that nobody is talking about the Bears as a contender this year. They've had plenty of time to build around a centerpiece QB but chances are they actually take a step backward. When the Bears go 8-8 or worse this year I think a lot of you might start coming around to the fact that Cutler just isn't as good as you think he is. Loads of ability but clearly doesn't have the head or disposition to be an NFL champion QB.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 07:40 AM
Nothing Orton could have done would have made the slightest bit of difference
This seems to be a common take in the Ortonite camp. Orton was the innocent victim of a poor defense. Laughable.

If Orton had scored more points, made more plays, won more games, etc there would be a lot less calling for Tebow to start immediately.

As it stands, Tebow came in as a rookie and led the offense to more points and clearly led the team to more inspired play. That, of course, doesn't count for the Ortonites because Tebow was only able to do it in 3 games and it doesn't matter that he did it in 100% of his starts, but whatever.

Ortonites are going to keep imagining that he's going to have a breakout in year 7 of his career right up to the point where he gets benched for Tebow and the team becomes better for it. Then they'll work on reasons why Tebow isn't really more successful despite scoring more points and winning more games.

TonyR
09-11-2011, 07:43 AM
Ortonites are going to keep imagining that he's going to have a breakout in year 7 of his career...

I challenge you to find even one person who thinks this.

baja
09-11-2011, 07:48 AM
I think Orton is going to have a break out year this year.

Play2win
09-11-2011, 08:19 AM
I think Orton is going to have a break out year this year.

Seriously, though, all Orton has to do to truly have a breakout year is to stay healthy in every single game this whole year. But, that might be a big stretch (him going through the entire year without getting injured).

jhns
09-11-2011, 08:21 AM
Seriously, though, all Orton has to do to truly have a breakout year is to stay healthy in every single game this whole year. But, that might be a big stretch (him going through the entire year without getting injured).

And learn to play on third down, and learn to play in the red zone, and learn to score TDs, and learn to step up in a pocket, and learn some balance when barely brushed by a defenders pinky, and etc....

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 08:22 AM
This would be a legit excuse if there wasn't a Wild Card. But the fact is that nobody is talking about the Bears as a contender this year. They've had plenty of time to build around a centerpiece QB but chances are they actually take a step backward. When the Bears go 8-8 or worse this year I think a lot of you might start coming around to the fact that Cutler just isn't as good as you think he is. Loads of ability but clearly doesn't have the head or disposition to be an NFL champion QB.

Ha!

I'll take "Things People Said Last Year Before an NFCCG for $1000"

TonyR
09-11-2011, 08:35 AM
Ha!

I'll take "Things People Said Last Year Before an NFCCG for $1000"

And how'd that work out?

Check this out on the Bears:


The Bears rode an awesome, unsustainable, life-affirming year of luck to the NFC Championship Game last season. Nobody can take that away from them. But let's pick away at that record to reveal why they will be terrible in 2011.

Let's start with the numbers. The Bears were 7-3 in games decided by a touchdown or less, and that includes a mostly meaningless loss to the Packers in Week 17. Winning close games at that rate is not a product of talent. In 2009, with virtually the same roster, the Bears were 3-5 in games decided by a touchdown or less. Since the strike season of 1982, there have been five other teams that were 7-3 in touchdown-or-less decisions in a given season. Those teams were 13-20 in those games the following year. That's not a small-sample fluke, either. If you take the 135 teams since 1982 that won at least four games by a touchdown-or-less and put up a winning percentage in those games of .700 or better, those teams were 496-478 in close games the following year, a winning percentage of .509. In 2009, the four teams who fit that criteria were the Colts, Vikings, Raiders, and Chargers. They were a combined 22-4 in close games. They went 12-16 in 2010. There's no real reason to think that the Bears will be bad in close games in 2011 (that's the Gambler's Fallacy), but there's also no reason to think they will be particularly good in them, either.

The advanced numbers aren't kind to the Bears, either. The Pythagorean method of using points scored and allowed to predict team performance pegged the Bears to be a 9.5-win team. Football Outsiders estimated that the Bears would have won just 8.2 games against an average schedule with average luck. Brian Burke's Generic Win Probability stat said that the Bears would win an average of just 51 percent of their games against league-average teams at a neutral site.

Now, let's throw in the common sense. Those wins included three victories over teams that were forced to play their third-string quarterback for part or all of the contest. Their Week 1 victory over the Lions needed the referees to wipe a perfectly good Calvin Johnson touchdown catch off the slate. Their 11 defensive starters missed a total of only eight games all season three from Zack Bowman (who was promptly benched), one from Lance Briggs, and four from Pisa Tinoisamoa. Brian Urlacher missed more time in 2009 than the entire defense combined in 2010. That's not going to happen again, especially with a team on which at least six of the defensive starters will be 30 or older in 2011.

Finally, there's the harsh reality of the league's taking away the one thing the Bears did best. The one consistent significant advantage Chicago has had over its competition over the past few seasons has been on special teams. The Bears averaged 25.4 yards per kick return last season, the second-highest rate in football. They were third in 2009 and fifth in 2008. That advantage is gone, and while there's no doubt that Devin Hester will make a few scurries out of the end zone, chances are that he won't contribute three touchdowns on kickoffs again. On the other hand, chances are that it won't really matter. With an average amount of injuries and luck, the Bears would have been a mediocre football team in 2010. With a tougher schedule and the league's new special teams rules coming their way in 2011, mediocre might be a stretch this season.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6918507/part-i

Cito Pelon
09-11-2011, 09:07 AM
This would be a legit excuse if there wasn't a Wild Card. But the fact is that nobody is talking about the Bears as a contender this year. They've had plenty of time to build around a centerpiece QB but chances are they actually take a step backward. When the Bears go 8-8 or worse this year I think a lot of you might start coming around to the fact that Cutler just isn't as good as you think he is. Loads of ability but clearly doesn't have the head or disposition to be an NFL champion QB.

Eh, Cutler might make it someday. His problem has been turnovers. Led the league in INT's since his rookie year, then throw in the fumbles lost, and that's hard on a team's record despite all the great things Cutler does. Dude is 34-34 for his career despite all the sweet plays he makes, and the problem is the dude leads the league in turnovers.

Throw Martz into the equation for another season, got rid of Greg Olsen, forced Roy Williams onto Cutler, demoted Johnny Knox who Cutler seemed to have good chemistry with, yeesh. Knox and Olsen had 23 TD receptions from Cutler 2009-2010, but Martz has phased those two out. We'll see how Martz and Cutler get along this year, after Cutler had "hand-picked" Martz as the OC that would get him into elite status.

OABB
09-11-2011, 09:08 AM
what were cutlers stats in nfccg before he was saved by an injury again?

I love reading those. Great qb's step up in big games. he had one of the worst games ever in a cg and would have had the worst if his vagina didn't blow out.

Taco John
09-11-2011, 09:23 AM
what were cutlers stats in nfccg before he was saved by an injury again?

I love reading those. Great qb's step up in big games. he had one of the worst games ever in a cg and would have had the worst if his vagina didn't blow out.


Meh. It was his first showing. You must not be very familiar with Peyton Manning's playoff history.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 09:24 AM
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6918507/part-i

Honestly it's like every Grantland link you've posted has been worse than the previous and considering what you started with, that's an amazing feat.

TonyR
09-11-2011, 09:31 AM
Honestly it's like every Grantland link you've posted has been worse than the previous and considering what you started with, that's an amazing feat.

Other than perhaps his comments about winning close games I think the analysis was actually pretty good. Be curious to know where you disagree. You think Jay's going to propel the Bears into contention this year? Or is it just not going to his fault if/when they go 7-9?

CEH
09-11-2011, 09:32 AM
And how'd that work out?

Check this out on the Bears:


The Bears rode an awesome, unsustainable, life-affirming year of luck to the NFC Championship Game last season. Nobody can take that away from them. But let's pick away at that record to reveal why they will be terrible in 2011.

Let's start with the numbers. The Bears were 7-3 in games decided by a touchdown or less, and that includes a mostly meaningless loss to the Packers in Week 17. Winning close games at that rate is not a product of talent. In 2009, with virtually the same roster, the Bears were 3-5 in games decided by a touchdown or less. Since the strike season of 1982, there have been five other teams that were 7-3 in touchdown-or-less decisions in a given season. Those teams were 13-20 in those games the following year. That's not a small-sample fluke, either. If you take the 135 teams since 1982 that won at least four games by a touchdown-or-less and put up a winning percentage in those games of .700 or better, those teams were 496-478 in close games the following year, a winning percentage of .509. In 2009, the four teams who fit that criteria were the Colts, Vikings, Raiders, and Chargers. They were a combined 22-4 in close games. They went 12-16 in 2010. There's no real reason to think that the Bears will be bad in close games in 2011 (that's the Gambler's Fallacy), but there's also no reason to think they will be particularly good in them, either.

The advanced numbers aren't kind to the Bears, either. The Pythagorean method of using points scored and allowed to predict team performance pegged the Bears to be a 9.5-win team. Football Outsiders estimated that the Bears would have won just 8.2 games against an average schedule with average luck. Brian Burke's Generic Win Probability stat said that the Bears would win an average of just 51 percent of their games against league-average teams at a neutral site.

Now, let's throw in the common sense. Those wins included three victories over teams that were forced to play their third-string quarterback for part or all of the contest. Their Week 1 victory over the Lions needed the referees to wipe a perfectly good Calvin Johnson touchdown catch off the slate. Their 11 defensive starters missed a total of only eight games all season three from Zack Bowman (who was promptly benched), one from Lance Briggs, and four from Pisa Tinoisamoa. Brian Urlacher missed more time in 2009 than the entire defense combined in 2010. That's not going to happen again, especially with a team on which at least six of the defensive starters will be 30 or older in 2011.

Finally, there's the harsh reality of the league's taking away the one thing the Bears did best. The one consistent significant advantage Chicago has had over its competition over the past few seasons has been on special teams. The Bears averaged 25.4 yards per kick return last season, the second-highest rate in football. They were third in 2009 and fifth in 2008. That advantage is gone, and while there's no doubt that Devin Hester will make a few scurries out of the end zone, chances are that he won't contribute three touchdowns on kickoffs again. On the other hand, chances are that it won't really matter. With an average amount of injuries and luck, the Bears would have been a mediocre football team in 2010. With a tougher schedule and the league's new special teams rules coming their way in 2011, mediocre might be a stretch this season.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6918507/part-i

Want to talk about fluke wins.

Green Bay doesn't even make the playoffs had Desean Jackson not returned that punt against NYG. When was the last time a team had a walk off punt return for a TD.

Had Dodge just kicked it out of bounds most likely GB doesn't make the playoffs and we are talking about CHI and GB in the same light. A 10-6 non playoff team would be looking to take the next step nothing more.

Garcia Bronco
09-11-2011, 10:19 AM
That happens. Did it occur to the group in front of him to offer to let his party play through? That's what I would have done.

There were two groups in front of them. He said they were impatient because it was training camp. It was him and Stokely.

Jay3
09-11-2011, 12:07 PM
It's all about the pageantry. Orton is playing the heel right now. Before he leaves town, he will "put Tebow over" by cursing Denver, demanding a inordinate salary, and challenging anyone who thinks he can do the job better to take over.

Tebow will jump up in the ring, slap Orton and suplex him, and Orton will get out of town.

It's been worked out in advance.

Rock Chalk
09-11-2011, 12:33 PM
Meh. It was his first showing. You must not be very familiar with Peyton Manning's playoff history.

Difference: Manning kept his teams in those games with a bad defense. Cutler kept his team out of that game with a great defense.

Just saying.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 12:39 PM
Difference: Manning kept his teams in those games with a bad defense. Cutler kept his team out of that game with a great defense.

Just saying.

Oh please, the playoff game he had 2 knees in the guy was fantastic.

Tony, remind me again about how/why he sucks? Be sure to reference "elite" teams like Atlanta more

SoCalBronco
09-11-2011, 12:50 PM
Other than perhaps his comments about winning close games I think the analysis was actually pretty good. Be curious to know where you disagree. You think Jay's going to propel the Bears into contention this year? Or is it just not going to his fault if/when they go 7-9?

Jay's kicking the **** out of the Falcons.

Maybe that blog writer should get a real job.

GreatBronco16
09-11-2011, 12:53 PM
Jay's kicking the **** out of the Falcons.

Maybe that blog writer should get a real job.

Actually that defense is kicking the **** out of the Falcons.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Actually that defense is kicking the **** out of the Falcons.

108 QB rating, 70% completion, over 300 yards, 2 scores, 11 of their 17 first downs were passing, etc

Yup, all defense...

Ha!

Miss I.
09-11-2011, 01:31 PM
108 QB rating, 70% completion, over 300 yards, 2 scores, 11 of their 17 first downs were passing, etc

Yup, all defense...

Ha!

Well to be fair, Atlanta went out and sucked on both sides of the ball, offense and defense. But yes, Jay still had a good game either way. I am a little disappointed that when Chicago comes to Wembley this year they are playing Tampa. I am not thinking Tampa will be much of a challenge and the game will probably be boring, but who knows.

WolfpackGuy
09-11-2011, 01:45 PM
108 QB rating, 70% completion, over 300 yards, 2 scores, 11 of their 17 first downs were passing, etc

Yup, all defense...

Ha!

That kind of QB play is just turrible.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 02:00 PM
There were two groups in front of them. He said they were impatient because it was training camp. It was him and Stokely.

Nonetheless, letting Orton and Stokley play through would have been the wisest course of action. I mean, if it's that or constantly having to look for an errant ball that might hit you, common sense says get them ahead of you; not behind you. That said, golf course protocol is to show courtesy and allow enough room that you aren't hitting into another group and I'm surprised the course marshal didn't have words with them if they were endangering other golfers.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 02:01 PM
Grossman lookin sexxxxxxxxy

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 02:06 PM
This seems to be a common take in the Ortonite camp. Orton was the innocent victim of a poor defense. Laughable.

If Orton had scored more points, made more plays, won more games, etc there would be a lot less calling for Tebow to start immediately.

As it stands, Tebow came in as a rookie and led the offense to more points and clearly led the team to more inspired play. That, of course, doesn't count for the Ortonites because Tebow was only able to do it in 3 games and it doesn't matter that he did it in 100% of his starts, but whatever.

Ortonites are going to keep imagining that he's going to have a breakout in year 7 of his career right up to the point where he gets benched for Tebow and the team becomes better for it. Then they'll work on reasons why Tebow isn't really more successful despite scoring more points and winning more games.

No one was a victim. A struggling team suffered team losses in a team sport. Again, there's plenty of blame to go around.

As for Tebow, it's pretty clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL yet. And like all the other starting QBs in the league, he's going to have to go out there in camp and make a solid "statement" to the coaches when he is ready. Y'know... earn the starting job.

epicSocialism4tw
09-11-2011, 02:25 PM
As for Tebow, it's pretty clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL yet.

That simply is not true. Tebow's statistics in the preseason are comparable with Ortons, who you define as the true starter.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 02:38 PM
That simply is not true. Tebow's statistics in the preseason are comparable with Ortons, who you define as the true starter.

They keep repeating what the talking heads are saying and act like it means something. Oh well...

Willynowei
09-11-2011, 03:07 PM
Well to be fair, Atlanta went out and sucked on both sides of the ball, offense and defense. But yes, Jay still had a good game either way. I am a little disappointed that when Chicago comes to Wembley this year they are playing Tampa. I am not thinking Tampa will be much of a challenge and the game will probably be boring, but who knows.

Either that or the Bears are playing well...

That team's terrible O-line is improving, and if they can ever get to the point where Cutler can get comfortable, we'll be seeing a whole other level of play from the kid.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:10 PM
Cutler sucks. Maybe not today, but rest assured, he sucks.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:12 PM
As for Tebow, it's pretty clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL yet. And like all the other starting QBs in the league, he's going to have to go out there in camp and make a solid "statement" to the coaches when he is ready. Y'know... earn the starting job.

Pretty clear based on what?

peacepipe
09-11-2011, 03:18 PM
Pretty clear based on what?on his actual play in games & in practice.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 03:25 PM
Cutler sucks. Maybe not today, but rest assured, he sucks.

:nono:

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:28 PM
on his actual play in games & in practice.

So 25 points per game in real game vs 20 doesn't earn the job?

WolfpackGuy
09-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Cutler sucks. Maybe not today, but rest assured, he sucks.

Must not suck too bad.

Got two firsts and the mercurial Kyle Orton for him!

LOL

epicSocialism4tw
09-11-2011, 03:31 PM
NOT on his actual play in games, BUT SUPPOSEDLY in practice.

Fixed it for you.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 03:31 PM
That simply is not true. Tebow's statistics in the preseason are comparable with Ortons, who you define as the true starter.

Yanno, it's not you or me that he needs to convince; it's his coaches. And they're clearly not convinced that he's ready.

Also... it is not me; it is the Denver Broncos coaches who "define Orton as the true starter".... I simply defer to their judgment as they're the ones whose jobs are on the line if they're wrong. (Meaning I'm not arrogant enough to think I know more about it than professionals who see all of the players every day in practice, have coached for years, and are paid well to do it).

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:32 PM
Must not suck too bad.

I agree. Today. He'll be back to his 4 int/game self in a week or two.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:33 PM
Yanno, it's not you or me that he needs to convince; it's his coaches. And they're clearly not convinced that he's ready.

That doesn't mean we should stop disagreeing with them.

peacepipe
09-11-2011, 03:34 PM
Yanno, it's not you or me that he needs to convince; it's his coaches. And they're clearly not convinced that he's ready.that's the point,everybody here thinks they know better than the team.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 03:35 PM
They keep repeating what the talking heads are saying and act like it means something. Oh well...

And you keep reposting your pro-Tebow arguments here like that's going to change the coaches' decisions. Oh, well...

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 03:37 PM
That doesn't mean we should stop disagreeing with them.

No amount of whining is going to change their assessment. The ball's in Tebow's court and until he does what the coaches want him to do in practice, their decision isn't going to change... certainly it won't based solely on the opinions of a few armchair GMs on the internet, regardless of the eloquence or tenacity of your presentations.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:38 PM
that's the point,everybody here thinks they know better than the team.

I've known better than the team on more than one occasion. Many posters here have.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:39 PM
No amount of whining is going to change their assessment. The ball's in Tebow's court and until he does what the coaches want him to do in practice, their decision isn't going to change... certainly it won't based solely on the opinions of a few armchair GMs on the internet, regardless of the eloquence or tenacity of your presentations.

Nor will any amount of hoping turn Orton into a legit starting QB.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 03:41 PM
Nor will any amount of hoping turn Orton into a legit starting QB.

Tell that to McDaniels. He's the one who acquired Orton.... and agreed with "EFX" that Orton was his starter as well.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:43 PM
Tell that to McDaniels. He's the one who acquired Orton.... and agreed with "EFX" that Orton was his starter as well.

So you whine about pointless whining, and then suggest pointless whining?

Dagmar
09-11-2011, 03:44 PM
Grossman lookin sexxxxxxxxy

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6596/sexyrexyfronttz3.jpg

TonyR
09-11-2011, 03:46 PM
Jay's kicking the **** out of the Falcons.

Maybe that blog writer should get a real job.

Yes, Chicago beat Atlanta. But since this same guy called Atlanta a team that would decline this year (see link below) he's not necessarily "wrong" about anything. But you go ahead and crown Cutler and the Bears after one week...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6934823/grantland-mega-nfl-preview-part-ii

epicSocialism4tw
09-11-2011, 03:47 PM
Yanno, it's not you or me that he needs to convince; it's his coaches. And they're clearly not convinced that he's ready.

Also... it is not me; it is the Denver Broncos coaches who "define Orton as the true starter"....

You described the situation the following way:

As for Tebow, it's pretty clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL yet.

Which is what I challenged.

You said that it was "clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL", which you then followed up by saying "I simply defer to their judgment".

So in reality it is not clear to you at all, but you assume that it is clear to the coaches based on some undefined criteria that you are not cogniscent of.

So, instead of your stated confidence in your own evaluation of the situation, you arent really sure but are deferring to the decision made by the coaching staff.

So your statement that it is "clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL", is untrue like I said previously.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 03:47 PM
So you whine about pointless whining, and then suggest pointless whining?

Unfortunately we all have to live with the results of McDaniels' coaching decisions. Orton is Orton; nothing more. He won't pick the team up on his shoulders and will them to a victory... but he won't typically make boneheaded blunders that give games away either. Look at him as a serviceable but not stellar "temp" filling in until our real QB either gets ready or is drafted next year.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 03:48 PM
I've known better than the team on more than one occasion. Many posters here have.

Say what? But these people get paid to do this and you don't! This couldn't possibly be true! Hilarious!

Gotta love the "I agree with the coaches, and they're coaches and you aren't, so I'm right" arguments.

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:49 PM
Unfortunately we all have to live with the results of McDaniels' coaching decisions. Orton is Orton; nothing more. He won't pick the team up on his shoulders and will them to a victory... but he won't typically make boneheaded blunders that give games away either. Look at him as a serviceable but not stellar "temp" filling in until our real QB either gets ready or is drafted next year.

I look at him as a worthless stop-gap, lame duck.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 03:50 PM
Yes, Chicago beat Atlanta. But since this same guy called Atlanta a team that would decline this year (see link below) he's not necessarily "wrong" about anything. But you go ahead and crown Cutler and the Bears after one week...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6934823/grantland-mega-nfl-preview-part-ii

Jesus ****ing Christ you answer one ****ty grantland article with another.

One week? They were just in the CG... winning doesn't matter because it's a team sport? Check who holds the Denver franchise records.

Honestly, it was McDaniels that ****ed you. Direct your hurt feelings where they belong.

errand
09-11-2011, 03:50 PM
Meh. It was his first showing. You must not be very familiar with Peyton Manning's playoff history.

Exactly.... very few quarterbacks win they're very first playoff game. And even fewer win their first conference championship game.

I rooted for Jay to succeed when he was here despite not liking the yanking of the starting gig from Jake....and I wish him well now that he toils elsewhere

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:50 PM
Say what? But these people get paid to do this and you don't! This couldn't possibly be true! Hilarious!

Gotta love the "I agree with the coaches, and they're coaches and you aren't, so I'm right" arguments.

Just because other people don't want to think, doesn't mean I have to stop.

peacepipe
09-11-2011, 03:50 PM
I've known better than the team on more than one occasion. Many posters here have.why waste your time here. shouldn't pat bowlen have your resume on top of his desk. Are you telling me that their are poster/posters on a sports forum that have failed to reach there destiny in being a HC/GM of a football team. why you're not the current GM is beyond me.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 03:50 PM
You described the situation the following way:



Which is what I challenged.

You said that it was "clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL", which you then followed up by saying "I simply defer to their judgment".

So in reality it is not clear to you at all, but you assume that it is clear to the coaches based on some undefined criteria that you are not cogniscent of.

So, instead of your stated confidence in your own evaluation of the situation, you arent really sure but are deferring to the decision made by the coaching staff.

So your statement that it is "clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL", is untrue like I said previously.

Yep millions of dollars being saved is pretty clear. ;)

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:52 PM
Exactly.... very few quarterbacks win they're very first playoff game. And even fewer win their first conference championship game.

I rooted for Jay to succeed when he was here despite not liking the yanking of the starting gig from Jake....and I wish him well now that he toils elsewhere

Cutler got as close to a title as he ever will last year. He literally gave up his chance.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 03:52 PM
why waste your time here. shouldn't pat bowlen have your resume on top of his desk. Are you telling me that their are poster/posters on a sports forum that have failed to reach there destiny in being a HC/GM of a football team. why you're not the current GM is beyond me.

LOL at you thinking being a coach or GM in the NFL is based purely off of football knowledge. How quaint...

Dedhed
09-11-2011, 03:54 PM
why waste your time here. shouldn't pat bowlen have your resume on top of his desk. Are you telling me that their are poster/posters on a sports forum that have failed to reach there destiny in being a HC/GM of a football team. why you're not the current GM is beyond me.
If you're just going to agree with everything the team does, you're the one wasting your time.

I would never want to work in an NFL front office. Long hours for crappy pay.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 03:54 PM
You described the situation the following way:



Which is what I challenged.

You said that it was "clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL", which you then followed up by saying "I simply defer to their judgment".

So in reality it is not clear to you at all, but you assume that it is clear to the coaches based on some undefined criteria that you are not cogniscent of.

So, instead of your stated confidence in your own evaluation of the situation, you arent really sure but are deferring to the decision made by the coaching staff.

So your statement that it is "clear that he isn't anywhere near ready to be a starter in the NFL", is untrue like I said previously.

I stand by my original statement... as long as any player's coaching staff is publicly stating that "he's not ready yet to start" then he's clearly not yet ready to start.

I'm not a professional NFL head coach, nor do I see all 4 QBs in practice. So yeah... I sorta think the opinion of guys who are professional coaches... and who do see all of the players in practice (and whose jobs depend on them being right about things like which QB should start)... carries more weight than the opinion of any couch potato.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 03:55 PM
Cutler got as close to a title as he ever will last year. He literally gave up his chance.

Your second sentence is the really important one. The guy gave up in the playoffs. Period. That injury was an injury that many, many players have played through in clutch situations. But not Cutler. He decided he'd rather watch the NFCCG from the sidelines and didn't even have the sense to sit down.

Blueflame
09-11-2011, 03:57 PM
I look at him as a worthless stop-gap, lame duck.

And I look at Tebow as a multi-year project that may or may not ever pan out. Oh, well.

errand
09-11-2011, 04:07 PM
That simply is not true. Tebow's statistics in the preseason are comparable with Ortons, who you define as the true starter.

Okay again for the last time...

scrubs...he played against scrubs. The only thing tim tebow proved this preseason is that our scrubs with him as our quarterback are better than other team scrubs...

It is also more than just thats in preseason....Orton goes through his progressions and reads faster and he's a lot more accurate with his throws.... basically he runs the offense the way the coaches want it run.

I'm sorry that that is a sore spot with you, but you needa take it up with the coaches not orton...go ahead, I'm sure they'll listen to you

errand
09-11-2011, 04:13 PM
They keep repeating what the talking heads are saying and act like it means something. Oh well...

And you and your clown posse keep quoting statistics that were built up against a bunch of wannabe stiffs....half of whom aren't on NFL rosters now......like they mean something

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:14 PM
Okay again for the last time...

scrubs...he played against scrubs. The only thing tim tebow proved this preseason is that our scrubs with him as our quarterback are better than other team scrubs...

It is also more than just thats in preseason....Orton goes through his progressions and reads faster and he's a lot more accurate with his throws.... basically he runs the offense the way the coaches want it run.

I'm sorry that that is a sore spot with you, but you needa take it up with the coaches not orton...go ahead, I'm sure they'll listen to you

God I wish we could've seen Orton against those scrubs while behind that horse abortion of a backup o-line. I really do. It would've been classic.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 04:15 PM
Your second sentence is the really important one. The guy gave up in the playoffs. Period. That injury was an injury that many, many players have played through in clutch situations. But not Cutler. He decided he'd rather watch the NFCCG from the sidelines and didn't even have the sense to sit down.

ROFL!

Never mind quotes from the Head Coach to the exact contrary...

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:16 PM
And you and your clown posse keep quoting statistics that were built up against a bunch of wannabe stiffs....half of whom aren't on NFL rosters now......like they mean something

Pretty funny coming from an Orton fan. There are few people on earth who appreciate meaningless statistics more, at least when they are the meaningless statistics that support their retarded position that Orton isn't garbage.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:17 PM
ROFL!

Never mind quotes from the Head Coach to the exact contrary...

And head coaches never lie. ::)

Seriously dude do some research on his injury. Many players have played through them. Just not Cutler.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 04:18 PM
And head coaches never lie. ::)

Seriously dude do some research on his injury. Many players have played through them. Just not Cutler.

Head coaches, trainers and players.

Must be a giant Bears conspiracy!

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass.

errand
09-11-2011, 04:18 PM
So 25 points per game in real game vs 20 doesn't earn the job?

Perhaps it would have if Studesville was our head coach and john fox wasn't....

New coach....new season....new front office. Tebow doesn't need to impress you anymore he's already done that...he needs to impress the new head coach.... and evidently he hasn't

errand
09-11-2011, 04:21 PM
Yanno, it's not you or me that he needs to convince; it's his coaches. And they're clearly not convinced that he's ready.

Also... it is not me; it is the Denver Broncos coaches who "define Orton as the true starter".... I simply defer to their judgment as they're the ones whose jobs are on the line if they're wrong. (Meaning I'm not arrogant enough to think I know more about it than professionals who see all of the players every day in practice, have coached for years, and are paid well to do it).

God, I love you........LOL

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:24 PM
Head coaches, trainers and players.

Must be a giant Bears conspiracy!

Seriously, pull your head out of your ass.

Seriously?

Do you think anyone in that organization is going to come out and say "Yeah Jay bitched out"? They aren't going to throw their big money QB under the bus like that. Stop being dumb.

He stood on the sidelines watching the end of that game without any sign of serious discomfort. Other players have played through the exact same injury in the past, especially in key situations. You are being naive. Cutler gave up in that game. Period.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 04:27 PM
Seriously?

Do you think anyone in that organization is going to come out and say "Yeah Jay b****ed out"? They aren't going to throw their big money QB under the bus like that. Stop being dumb.

He stood on the sidelines watching the end of that game without any sign of serious discomfort. Other players have played through the exact same injury in the past, especially in key situations. You are being naive. Cutler gave up in that game. Period.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Untreated and undiagnosed type 1 diabetes, losing thirty pounds, life-threatening, and played through it all for months, but something other players haven't had an issue with and he quits?

Gtfo, kid.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:28 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Untreated and undiagnosed type 1 diabetes, losing thirty pounds, life-threatening, and played through it all for months, but something other players haven't had an issue with and he quits?

Gtfo, kid.

::)

errand
09-11-2011, 04:28 PM
Cutler got as close to a title as he ever will last year. He literally gave up his chance.

I used to think that taco john knew less about quarterbacks on here than anyone else..... but you sir have taken QB ignorance to a higher level

TonyR
09-11-2011, 04:29 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ you answer one ****ty grantland article with another.

Why wouldn't I? He commented specifically on the author, I showed what the same author had to say about Atlanta.


One week? They were just in the CG... winning doesn't matter because it's a team sport? Check who holds the Denver franchise records..

Yes, one week into the season. Where/how did I say "winning doesn't matter"?


Honestly, it was McDaniels that ****ed you. Direct your hurt feelings where they belong.

McD ****ed us primarily because of how he mishandled the picks they got for Cutler. My feelings just aren't hurt enough to really be directed at anyone. I'm not going to whine incessantly about Cutler, Hillis, Shanahan, etc. like some people. It doesn't do any good.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:29 PM
I used to think that taco john knew less about quarterbacks on here than anyone else..... but you sir have taken QB ignorance to a higher level

This post is absolutely classic coming from an Orton fan. Hilarious!

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 04:29 PM
::)

Exactly.

Everyone's lying though.

The reality: You're a 2 and you bring my 10 down to a 6. ^5

errand
09-11-2011, 04:30 PM
LOL at you thinking being a coach or GM in the NFL is based purely off of football knowledge. How quaint...

I'm sure in some instances you have to know somebody to get the gig....... But you cannot be complete total dumbass like you and get the gig

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:31 PM
Exactly.

Everyone's lying though.

The reality: You're a 2 and you bring my 10 down to a 6. ^5

Clearly you, Cutler, and reality simply don't mix. Cool story though.

errand
09-11-2011, 04:32 PM
If you're just going to agree with everything the team does, you're the one wasting your time.

I would never want to work in an NFL front office. Long hours for crappy pay.

Well well.. I'm not sure who's happier that you do not work in an nfl office the fans or you

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:33 PM
I'm sure in some instances you have to know somebody to get the gig....... But you cannot be complete total dumbass like you and get the gig

Umm...have you forgotten McD so quickly? Clearly you can be a total dumbass and get the gig. Thanks for playing though.

SoCalBronco
09-11-2011, 04:33 PM
Clearly you, Cutler, and reality simply don't mix. Cool story though.

This reminds me of when you continually denied that Bowlen was a problem until it became so obvious that you finally broke down and admitted the obvious.

I wonder how long its going to take for you to do the same re: Jay.

Even Elway has already admitted it was a mistake to give him up.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 04:33 PM
Yes, one week into the season. Where/how did I say "winning doesn't matter"?

When he had stats it was "wins". Now that he wins it's "stats". Then it was "playoff" wins. Then it was, "Oh they dont count!" What is it that makes you feel he isn't legitimate?

Just so I know what to hold you to when THAT barrier gets broken.

McD ****ed us primarily because of how he mishandled the picks they got for Cutler. My feelings just aren't hurt enough to really be directed at anyone. I'm not going to whine incessantly about Cutler, Hillis, Shanahan, etc. like some people. It doesn't do any good.

Yet you were one of the first people to bring him up in this thread:

Do you find it at all interesting that Chicago has this All World, veteran QB whose c*ck some of you can't seem to get out of your mouths and yet the Bears aren't considered much of a contender again this year? You know, like all the other teams with top QB's? (Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, San Diego, etc.) What's up with that?

Go figure.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:34 PM
Well well.. I'm not sure who's happier that you do not work in an nfl office the fans or you

Kyle Orton. He has much to thank idiots for when it comes to his career.

TheReverend
09-11-2011, 04:34 PM
Clearly you, Cutler, and reality simply don't mix. Cool story though.

Sorry my reality is based in facts while yours is... I don't even want to know.

Willynowei
09-11-2011, 04:34 PM
Your second sentence is the really important one. The guy gave up in the playoffs. Period. That injury was an injury that many, many players have played through in clutch situations. But not Cutler. He decided he'd rather watch the NFCCG from the sidelines and didn't even have the sense to sit down.

"Many, Many Players..."

List them.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:35 PM
This reminds me of when you continually denied that Bowlen was a problem until it became so obvious that you finally broke down and admitted the obvious.

I wonder how long its going to take for you to do the same re: Jay.

Even Elway has already admitted it was a mistake to give him up.

When Cutler actually looks like anything more than a mediocre QB with a strong arm? Yeah that's when. I'm still waiting.

errand
09-11-2011, 04:35 PM
God I wish we could've seen Orton against those scrubs while behind that horse abortion of a backup o-line. I really do. It would've been classic.

Benefits of winning the starting job... If tim tebow doesn't want to play with scrubs or against scrubs then he needs to not play like a scrub in practice

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:36 PM
Sorry my reality is based in facts while yours is... I don't even want to know.

So in your reality it's normal for a QB to leave a Championship game with a knee injury and then stand on said knee watching his team tank? Okay...

WolfpackGuy
09-11-2011, 04:38 PM
Did anyone question Elway's toughness when he pulled up lame in the 91 AFCCG?

Olin Kreutz said Cutler's lower leg was wobbling from his knee.

Standing on the sidelines after taking a shot is a lot different than running from defenders.

Manning just had surgery on his neck.

Why the **** is he not out there?

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:39 PM
"Many, Many Players..."

List them.

Off the top of my head, Drew Brees, who played most of 2010 with a sprained MCL.

Dagmar
09-11-2011, 04:39 PM
Thread title and content don't match...

Willynowei
09-11-2011, 04:40 PM
So in your reality it's normal for a QB to leave a Championship game with a knee injury and then stand on said knee watching his team tank? Okay...

1.) Yes, and each knee injury is different; you obviously have never played QB

2.) if you question his toughness watch the video below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2IcJ0tH30&feature=related

3.) Eat crow, bitch.

Agamemnon
09-11-2011, 04:42 PM
1.) Yes, and each knee injury is different; you obviously have never played QB

2.) if you question his toughness watch the video below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2IcJ0tH30&feature=related

3.) Eat crow, b****.

I've had a sprained knee and a sprained ankle. If I had the choice to stand on either or sit on a bench, the choice would be obvious to me. I guess Cutler is just that tough. But not tough enough to go back in with a brace apparently...