Is the Post Office Just a Canary in a Coal Mine?

[Rohirrim]

New technologies are wreaking havoc on employment figures -- from EZpasses ousting toll collectors to Google-controlled self-driving automobiles rendering taxicab drivers obsolete. Every new computer program is basically doing some task that a person used to do. But the computer usually does it faster, more accurately, for less money, and without any health insurance costs.
We like to believe that the appropriate response is to train humans for higher level work. Instead of collecting tolls, the trained worker will fix and program toll-collecting robots. But it never really works out that way, since not as many people are needed to make the robots as the robots replace.

And so the president goes on television telling us that the big issue of our time is jobs, jobs, jobs -- as if the reason to build high-speed rails and fix bridges is to put people back to work. But it seems to me there's something backwards in that logic. I find myself wondering if we may be accepting a premise that deserves to be questioned.http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

[Tombstone RJ]

New technologies are wreaking havoc on employment figures -- from EZpasses ousting toll collectors to Google-controlled self-driving automobiles rendering taxicab drivers obsolete. Every new computer program is basically doing some task that a person used to do. But the computer usually does it faster, more accurately, for less money, and without any health insurance costs.
We like to believe that the appropriate response is to train humans for higher level work. Instead of collecting tolls, the trained worker will fix and program toll-collecting robots. But it never really works out that way, since not as many people are needed to make the robots as the robots replace.

And so the president goes on television telling us that the big issue of our time is jobs, jobs, jobs -- as if the reason to build high-speed rails and fix bridges is to put people back to work. But it seems to me there's something backwards in that logic. I find myself wondering if we may be accepting a premise that deserves to be questioned.http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Very astute perspective. We are living in a time of much change. White collar jobs are being outsouced to China and India, blue collar jobs are being replaced by computers and robotic systems.

The next wave is where technology replaces even more white collar jobs like accounting, logistics, purchasing, etc., and even customer service jobs.

Where are the people to go when there's simply not enough jobs because the world is more and more automated?

That's the $64K question that needs to be answered.

[Pony Boy]

WalMart is testing a system that will scan your items in the shopping cart no need for a clerk to scan them and you will pay WalMart directly with your smart phone and this will eliminate credit card fees.

You will soon be able to use your smart phone in all money transaction, if you owe the guy that mows your lawn 50 bucks he will scan your phone with his and the money will be moved from your bank to his.

[Spider]

you know when the cotton gin was invented , people thought it would put alot of people out of work , just the opposite happened , I see new tech as away of creating more jobs ,

[Rigs11]

we rank 23rd in infastructure worldwide. this is not acceptable. fix it, put people to work.

[Requiem]

you know when the cotton gin was invented , people thought it would put alot of people out of work , just the opposite happened , I see new tech as away of creating more jobs ,

Technology allows for a wealth of opportunity. It is changing a lot of things. Some people just have a problem adapting to it.

[Spider]

Technology allows for a wealth of opportunity. It is changing a lot of things. Some people just have a problem adapting to it.

;) agreed I am a dinosaur , I will never get the new tech , but my kids will , I dont want my kids working like I had to , I want em on easy street

[Rohirrim]

The question is, our population is approaching 7 billion and climbing while our technology creates a world where there are fewer jobs, even in fields like agriculture. So what is our plan to deal with the millions for whom there are no jobs? I doubt they will just go out into the wilderness and silently starve. As the riots in Europe show, you can't just tell people, "We're cutting off your benefits while offering you no jobs."

[Requiem]

People could use technology as the wave of the future to provide an income for themselves. Plenty are already doing it.

[Tombstone RJ]

you know when the cotton gin was invented , people thought it would put alot of people out of work , just the opposite happened , I see new tech as away of creating more jobs ,

There's technology that increases a human's efficiency and productivity in the work place and then there is technology that completely replaces humans. I doesn't take a wise man to understand the difference between these two concepts, it just takes common sense.

[Tombstone RJ]

The question is, our population is approaching 7 billion and climbing while our technology creates a world where there are fewer jobs, even in fields like agriculture. So what is our plan to deal with the millions for whom there are no jobs? I doubt they will just go out into the wilderness and silently starve. As the riots in Europe show, you can't just tell people, "We're cutting off your benefits while offering you no jobs."

Exactly, well said.

[Spider]

There's technology that increases a human's efficiency and productivity in the work place and then there is technology that completely replaces humans. I doesn't take a wise man to understand the difference between these two concepts, it just takes common sense.

I disagree , the more you add , the more that can go wrong , the more techs you need to make repairs

[bronclvr]

I believe the Elephant in the room is that people just don't want to work, and/or they don't have the skills-everybody wants a clean, white shirt, sit-at-a-desk job, and no one seems to want to be an Electrician, Plumber, Mechanic, etc.-I have a friend who has had 3 open Jobs that pay over $50K, and he cannot find quality help-hell, it took me 5 Months to fill a Job I had that pays $35+ an hour-get some training people-

[Tombstone RJ]

WalMart is testing a system that will scan your items in the shopping cart no need for a clerk to scan them and you will pay WalMart directly with your smart phone and this will eliminate credit card fees.

You will soon be able to use your smart phone in all money transaction, if you owe the guy that mows your lawn 50 bucks he will scan your phone with his and the money will be moved from your bank to his.

This is sad but probably inevitable, WalMart's two greatest expenses are its inventory and its work force (payroll). Guess what WalMart will do to increase its profits... yep, it will decrease payroll...

[TonyR]

I posted this in another thread. Re-posting here because it's marginally related...


Amazon’s Kindle 2 couldn’t be made in the U.S., even if Amazon wanted to:

- The flex circuit connectors are made in China because the US supplier base migrated to Asia.
- The electrophoretic display is made in Taiwan because the expertise developed from producting flat-panel LCDs migrated to Asia with semiconductor manufacturing.
- The highly polished injection-molded case is made in China because the U.S. supplier base eroded as the manufacture of toys, consumer electronics and computers migrated to China.
- The wireless card is made in South Korea because that country became a center for making mobile phone components and handsets.
- The controller board is made in China because U.S. companies long ago transferred manufacture of printed circuit boards to Asia.
- The Lithium polymer battery is made in China because battery development and manufacturing migrated to China along with the development and manufacture of consumer electronics and notebook computers.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveden...le-in-the-usa/

[Rohirrim]

I beleive the Elephant in the room is that people just don't want to work, and/or they don't have the skills-everybody wants a clean, white shirt, sit-at-a-desk job, and no one seems to want to be an Electrician, Plumber, Mechanic, etc.-I have a friend who has had 3 open Jobs that pay over $50K, and he cannot find quality help-hell, it took me 5 Months to fill a Job I had that pays $35+ an hour-get some training people-

We have a whole generation who grew up studying and learning about computers. They were told that computers were the wave of the future. When they were ready to enter the work force, guess what happened? All the computer jobs went offshore.

[Requiem]

We have a whole generation who grew up studying and learning about computers. They were told that computers were the wave of the future. When they were ready to enter the work force, guess what happened? All the computer jobs went offshore.

Outsourcing is happening, but anyone who studied or learned about computers should be thriving in this environment, especially if they earned a degree in Computer Science, etc.

Any friend I had in college that went that route is doing remarkably well for themselves.

[Requiem]

There's technology that increases a human's efficiency and productivity in the work place and then there is technology that completely replaces humans. I doesn't take a wise man to understand the difference between these two concepts, it just takes common sense.

Which is happening more?

[alkemical]

WalMart is testing a system that will scan your items in the shopping cart no need for a clerk to scan them and you will pay WalMart directly with your smart phone and this will eliminate credit card fees.

You will soon be able to use your smart phone in all money transaction, if you owe the guy that mows your lawn 50 bucks he will scan your phone with his and the money will be moved from your bank to his.

SMS money transfers have been used in Africa for years.

In some ways, we are far behind.

[alkemical]

Outsourcing is happening, but anyone who studied or learned about computers should be thriving in this environment, especially if they earned a degree in Computer Science, etc.

Any friend I had in college that went that route is doing remarkably well for themselves.

Really depends on what you're doing. There's a lot of IT jobs that you are competing on a global wage scale.

(Thanks IBM, HP!)

[Rigs11]

Outsourcing is happening, but anyone who studied or learned about computers should be thriving in this environment, especially if they earned a degree in Computer Science, etc.

Any friend I had in college that went that route is doing remarkably well for themselves.

This.everything is turning to software.I get calls from recruiters at least twice a week.

[ghwk]

This.everything is turning to software.I get calls from recruiters at least twice a week.

My brother in law is a code monkey and he never has a problem finding a job.

[Garcia Bronco]

Very astute perspective. We are living in a time of much change. White collar jobs are being outsouced to China and India, blue collar jobs are being replaced by computers and robotic systems.

The next wave is where technology replaces even more white collar jobs like accounting, logistics, purchasing, etc., and even customer service jobs.

Where are the people to go when there's simply not enough jobs because the world is more and more automated?

That's the $64K question that needs to be answered.

They've already been replaced. People just don't know it yet. It's why many jobs aren't coming back and exactly why we need to down size our population.

[Garcia Bronco]

you know when the cotton gin was invented , people thought it would put alot of people out of work , just the opposite happened , I see new tech as away of creating more jobs ,

This precisely the attitude to have to be successful.

[bronclvr]

They've already been replaced. People just don't know it yet. It's why many jobs aren't coming back and exactly why we need to down size our population.

OK, who is going to go first? :chairhit:

[Rigs11]

OK, who is going to go first? :chairhit:

Raiders fans followed closely by chiefs fans:yayaya:

[bronclvr]

Raiders fans followed closely by chiefs fans:yayaya:

I am good with that-oh, Bob? Maximus? :strong:

[Requiem]

Really depends on what you're doing. There's a lot of IT jobs that you are competing on a global wage scale.

(Thanks IBM, HP!)

I had co-workers with associate degrees in IT related fields that were making ~ 40k+ (and on top of that benefits they didn't have to pay a dime for) for my last company and we have offices over the entire world, with competition over the entire world.

Technical writers, program managers, software engineers, user experience experts, etc. -- just positions my friends have taken up with their degrees post University.

For single guys in their early twenties, they are doing extremely well for themselves.

I have never came across someone from those fields who had trouble finding work.

[Arkie]

I disagree , the more you add , the more that can go wrong , the more techs you need to make repairs

Eventually computers will be more intelligent than us, probably in the next 50 years.

[ant1999e]

Eventually computers will be more intelligent than us, probably in the next 50 years.

They're already smarter than spider.:wave:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/unemployed-prices-5.gif

[Rohirrim]

It's simple. We should just do what everybody else in the world does; Add a VAT to every product made outside the U.S., even if it's made by a U.S. company on foreign soil. The jobs would come back toot suite.

[baja]

New technologies are wreaking havoc on employment figures -- from EZpasses ousting toll collectors to Google-controlled self-driving automobiles rendering taxicab drivers obsolete. Every new computer program is basically doing some task that a person used to do. But the computer usually does it faster, more accurately, for less money, and without any health insurance costs.
We like to believe that the appropriate response is to train humans for higher level work. Instead of collecting tolls, the trained worker will fix and program toll-collecting robots. But it never really works out that way, since not as many people are needed to make the robots as the robots replace.

And so the president goes on television telling us that the big issue of our time is jobs, jobs, jobs -- as if the reason to build high-speed rails and fix bridges is to put people back to work. But it seems to me there's something backwards in that logic. I find myself wondering if we may be accepting a premise that deserves to be questioned.http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Just think of a future when they have a robotic military. Will they need so many people on the planet suffering from man made pollution and dwindling resources?

[Tombstone RJ]

First you fall over when the atmosphere is less than perfect
Your sensibilities are shaken by the slightest defect
You leave your lover like a canary in coal mine
You get so dizzy even walking in straight line

Canary in coal mine
Canary in coal mine

Now if I tell you that you suffer from delusions
You'll pay your analyst to reach the same conclusions
You leave your lover like a canary in a coal mine
You get so dizzy even walking in a straight line

Canary in a coal mine
Canary in a coal mine

--Group: The Police, Album: Zenyatta Mendatta, Song: Canary in a Coal Mine