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montrose
09-05-2011, 11:35 AM
Kahn has gotta be pi**ed...

Redskins have made the decision to go with Rex Grossman as their starting quarterback- @AdamSchefter

TheReverend
09-05-2011, 11:36 AM
Called this one after his game against Balt :)

Kaylore
09-05-2011, 11:40 AM
This is who I expected. Grossman has experience in the playoffs and as a starter. I am happy Beck had the fortune of receiving coaching from a great QB developer as Shanahan to show he can be an effective player. Hopefully he's in the league as long as Ty Detmer. 8')

broncosteven
09-05-2011, 11:40 AM
Sounds like someone flipped a coin.

TheReverend
09-05-2011, 11:40 AM
This is who I expected. Grossman has experience in the playoffs and as a starter. I am happy Beck had the fortune of receiving coaching from a great QB developer as Shanahan to show he can be an effective player. Hopefully he's in the league as long as Ty Detmer. 8')

I expect both to start multiple games this season.

Beck's last chapter is far from written.

SoCalBronco
09-05-2011, 11:45 AM
Shanny will win with either one.

strafen
09-05-2011, 11:48 AM
I agree with The Rev, it's Grossman for now and whether he holds the starting job for the season or not, will largely depend on his performance and the w's

I thought Beck played well to be the starter. In fact, either one could've been named the starter and nobody would've biatched much about it...

Paladin
09-05-2011, 11:48 AM
Shanny will win with either one.

H3ll yeah!!!! He won with Plummer.......




But he didn't with Cutler........

Some how that seems messed up.....

Mr. Elway
09-05-2011, 11:49 AM
I have a weird feeling that Grossman will have a good year.

broncosteven
09-05-2011, 11:52 AM
Can't the skins do what the Broncos did with Timbo and Quinn

REXMAN or Beck

DENVERDUI55
09-05-2011, 11:52 AM
Shanny will win 8 games with either one.

I think that is more accurate.

SoCalBronco
09-05-2011, 11:54 AM
H3ll yeah!!!! He won with Plummer.......




But he didn't with Cutler........

Some how that seems messed up.....

He won with Cutler a vast majority of the time when the defense allowed 21 points or fewer.

HAT
09-05-2011, 12:00 PM
He won with Cutler a vast majority of the time when the defense allowed 21 points or fewer.

Using the same caveat....Orton/McD were 9-2. LOL

HAT
09-05-2011, 12:02 PM
I think that is more accurate.

You really think the Skins can win 8 this year? I think they'll be picking top 5 and almost certainly top 10.

DENVERDUI55
09-05-2011, 12:03 PM
You really think the Skins can win 8 this year? I think they'll be picking top 5 and almost certainly top 10.

No I think they will win 5-7. Just talking about shanny's ability to win 8 is amazing.

broncocalijohn
09-05-2011, 12:05 PM
This is who I expected. Grossman has experience in the playoffs and as a starter. I am happy Beck had the fortune of receiving coaching from a great QB developer as Shanahan to show he can be an effective player. Hopefully he's in the league as long as Ty Detmer. 8')

Playoffs? Playoffs? You talkin' playoffs? I think I need a You Tube clip inserted here.



Redskins will NOT be going to the playoffs this year. They are battling to not come in last place in their division. I see So Cal has been drinking a little extra of the Shanny Juice this morning. His ability to get 8 wins is when you expect 10 wins. 8 wins for the Skins would be like us getting to 8 wins....progress.

TheReverend
09-05-2011, 12:05 PM
You really think the Skins can win 8 this year? I think they'll be picking top 5 and almost certainly top 10.

If they pick top 5 and are within striking distance for Luck...

With the young defensive pieces they have in place, along with a Shanahan offense and Luck, that's writing a dynasty, imo.

HAT
09-05-2011, 12:10 PM
If they pick top 5 and are within striking distance for Luck...

With the young defensive pieces they have in place, along with a Shanahan offense and Luck, that's writing a dynasty, imo.

Very well could be the start of one.

Inkana7
09-05-2011, 12:18 PM
You forget who owns that team.

Bob's your Information Minister
09-05-2011, 12:25 PM
Mormons...ha!

Bob's your Information Minister
09-05-2011, 12:27 PM
If they pick top 5 and are within striking distance for Luck...

With the young defensive pieces they have in place, along with a Shanahan offense and Luck, that's writing a dynasty, imo.

Shanny, somehow, finally figured out how to build a D.

The Skins are going to be NASTY on D this year. Bringing in Josh Wilson at corner, Cofield at DT and putting Orakpo at 3-4 OLB is going to be hard to defend. Kerrigan should be OK.

TheReverend
09-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Shanny, somehow, finally figured out how to build a D.

The Skins are going to be NASTY on D this year. Bringing in Josh Wilson at corner, Cofield at DT and putting Orakpo at 3-4 OLB is going to be hard to defend. Kerrigan should be OK.

Myth. Always knew.

Broncoman13
09-05-2011, 12:33 PM
If they pick top 5 and are within striking distance for Luck...

With the young defensive pieces they have in place, along with a Shanahan offense and Luck, that's writing a dynasty, imo.

If Shanahan got Luck it would be bad news for the NFL.

SoCalBronco
09-05-2011, 12:36 PM
If Shanahan got Luck it would be bad news for the NFL.

I wonder what Elway's reaction would be....lol. ROFL!

That would be hilarious.

Bob's your Information Minister
09-05-2011, 12:40 PM
Myth. Always knew.

C'mon, man. That Browncos garbage was an embarrassment, and don't get me started on the draft picks.

Someone in Washington is telling Shanny what players to go after.

If he can hold on to Haslett he should be good to go.

TheReverend
09-05-2011, 12:43 PM
C'mon, man. That Browncos garbage was an embarrassment, and don't get me started on the draft picks.

An embarrassment that worked extremely well then...

Someone in Washington is telling Shanny what players to go after.

If he can hold on to Haslett he should be good to go.

I'm sure a lot of people have valuable input now. Contrary to popular belief,
that's always been the case despite the label of totalitarian dictator.

Dedhed
09-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Shanny will win with either one.

Yeah, 7-9 games and will be "just a couple of pieces" from being a contender for the next 7 years.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-05-2011, 01:10 PM
C'mon, man. That Browncos garbage was an embarrassment, and don't get me started on the draft picks.

Someone in Washington is telling Shanny what players to go after.

If he can hold on to Haslett he should be good to go.

The garbage embarrassment that anchored the D that lead us to the AFC championship in 2005? That garbage embarrassment?

Bob's your Information Minister
09-05-2011, 01:15 PM
The Browncos didn't anchor anything. Your back seven anchored that defense.

R8R H8R
09-05-2011, 01:50 PM
If Shanahan got Luck it would be bad news for the NFL.

If the Skins are in a position to draft Luck, then Shanahan probably won't be the coach. As someone has said, don't forget who owns them.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-05-2011, 01:53 PM
The Browncos didn't anchor anything. Your back seven anchored that defense.

We had the number 2 rushing D in the league that year. Musta been our cornerbacks

BroncoLover
09-05-2011, 01:56 PM
This is who I expected. Grossman has experience in the playoffs and as a starter. I am happy Beck had the fortune of receiving coaching from a great QB developer as Shanahan to show he can be an effective player. Hopefully he's in the league as long as Ty Detmer. 8')

I don't know about the QB situation and how well they are going to play. But being in DC area and having watched most of the pre-season action, i think there RB's are going to have a great year. Tim Hightower, Roy Helu and Ryan and all looking good (Ryan, if he gets injured should be cut going forward, as he is injury prone). But this running game is going to be very good. All i cannot understand is them retaining 8 wr's or so. I am shocked when i see that. May be they are going to trade a few of them.

Kellen Williams was decent enough and denver should add him if possible.

Bob's your Information Minister
09-05-2011, 02:02 PM
We had the number 2 rushing D in the league that year. Musta been our cornerbacks

It was your linebackers.

I know that 05 defense didn't stop the Chiefs' running game...

BroncoLover
09-05-2011, 02:04 PM
It was your linebackers.

I know that 05 defense didn't stop the Chiefs' running game...

Bob, do you even post this much on your own board ? Looks like your team is falling apart. Why don't you clean your **** first before trying to say anything about the other team.

TonyR
09-05-2011, 04:55 PM
This guy on Grantland put the Redskins and Bears in the "pretenders" category in part I of his NFL preview. Pretty good read. Rev's gonna hat the guy because of his comments about Cofield and Atogwe...


Redskins fans didn't get much out of the 2010 season, but they got a whole lot of close games. The Redskins were in 12 games decided by a touchdown or less, the first time since 2003 that a team was in so many close games in one year. They went 6-6, which means that Redskins fans can make the case that they were a few lucky bounces away from the playoffs, while people who hate the Redskins can point out that they were a few lucky bounces away from 3-13. In the four games that weren't close, Washington went 0-4 and was outscored by 81 points. The haters have it.

Of course, the Redskins then went and had a typical Daniel Snyder offseason. After clearing the decks by dumping their old, high-priced veterans and insulting them on the way out, they replaced them by overpaying new free agents. Instead of paying Albert Haynesworth, the Redskins now have the pleasure of giving former Giants tackle Barry Cofield and Cowboys backup end Stephen Bowen more money than they deserve. They devoted too much money to a defensive back, signing O.J. Atogwe away from the Rams as one of the few pre-lockout free agents to leave the market. They spent too much on one of their own, re-signing Santana Moss as he comes off a career year at 32. And then they finally traded Donovan McNabb and replaced him with god knows what.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6918507/part-i

Circle Orange
09-06-2011, 11:39 AM
The media hens in D.C. have clucked non stop about Beck as if he were Johnny U, Joe Montana, and John Elway rolled into one. He had 'charisma' and such drek. And it was a 'done deal' that he'd get the job. Never mind the fact he's bounced around and couldn't get a starting job on any team. Dude had the aura of cardboard, but he was well spoken and ran his mouth too much about being the starter. I personally am glad the local media is blowing their livers over this. They are a narrow minded, supressed suburban bunch that knows nothing outside of the Beltway and Rockville Maryland. So the hens cluck on with their made up reasons as to why THEY THINK Shanahan chose Grossman. And take all their stupid shots like fat geeks who think they're cool on blog pages. Every frigging radio cast is a stupid gigglefest of grade school cheap shots.

But fans are excited for the team this year. Schefter was wrong with his opinion that the local media ran with as fact. Gruden hyped Beck too for no reason other than that he was unknown. Did anyone with a lick of sense expect an obscure qb no one spoke of to suddenly pop in and win a starting job based on three and a half preseason games? Only moe-rons who don't know football. The made up controversy was just that,and they wore it out.

TheReverend
09-06-2011, 12:06 PM
This guy on Grantland put the Redskins and Bears in the "pretenders" category in part I of his NFL preview. Pretty good read. Rev's gonna hat the guy because of his comments about Cofield and Atogwe...


Redskins fans didn't get much out of the 2010 season, but they got a whole lot of close games. The Redskins were in 12 games decided by a touchdown or less, the first time since 2003 that a team was in so many close games in one year. They went 6-6, which means that Redskins fans can make the case that they were a few lucky bounces away from the playoffs, while people who hate the Redskins can point out that they were a few lucky bounces away from 3-13. In the four games that weren't close, Washington went 0-4 and was outscored by 81 points. The haters have it.

Of course, the Redskins then went and had a typical Daniel Snyder offseason. After clearing the decks by dumping their old, high-priced veterans and insulting them on the way out, they replaced them by overpaying new free agents. Instead of paying Albert Haynesworth, the Redskins now have the pleasure of giving former Giants tackle Barry Cofield and Cowboys backup end Stephen Bowen more money than they deserve. They devoted too much money to a defensive back, signing O.J. Atogwe away from the Rams as one of the few pre-lockout free agents to leave the market. They spent too much on one of their own, re-signing Santana Moss as he comes off a career year at 32. And then they finally traded Donovan McNabb and replaced him with god knows what.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6918507/part-i

Yeah... This guy's trying to put Atogwe at 5 yr $26 million and Cofield, 6 years #36 million, on the overspending/Haynesworth category?

Someone send this **** to bleacherreport.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-06-2011, 12:17 PM
It was your linebackers.

I know that 05 defense didn't stop the Chiefs' running game...

Your entire argument is completely full of ****.

ghwk
09-06-2011, 02:14 PM
i can't believe Shanahan is still carrying Ryan Torain. Has that guy gotten through a full season?

Kaylore
09-06-2011, 02:19 PM
i can't believe Shanahan is still carrying Ryan Torain. Has that guy gotten through a full season?

He is their Nate Jackson.

TheReverend
09-06-2011, 02:25 PM
He is their Nate Jackson.

Only he actually plays some in the regular season :wiggle:

Kaylore
09-06-2011, 02:36 PM
Myth. Always knew.

Not really. I went back and averaged Shanahan's defenses every year as a head coach. His career average is 15th in the league for scoring defese (14.64 if you want to be exact) meaning he averaged the 15th best defense in the league which is middle of the road. Mind you this is including years when there were fewer teams which is below average slightly. His yardage average is actually worse at 16. When you factor in his defensive draft picks that panned out (very few) and expensive free agents that busted, you would hard pressed not to admit at the very least he was average or worse at developing and fielding defenses.

gunns
09-06-2011, 02:49 PM
H3ll yeah!!!! He won in spite of Plummer.......




But he didn't with Cutler........

Some how that seems messed up.....

Fixed it. Of course they went with Grossman.....Beck Hilarious!

I agree, Washington will be picking in the top 10.

TheReverend
09-06-2011, 02:49 PM
Not really. I went back and averaged Shanahan's defenses every year as a head coach. His career average is 15th in the league for scoring defese (14.64 if you want to be exact) meaning he averaged the 15th best defense in the league which is middle of the road. Mind you this is including years when there were fewer teams which is below average slightly. His yardage average is actually worse at 16. When you factor in his defensive draft picks that panned out (very few) and expensive free agents that busted, you would hard pressed not to admit at the very least he was average or worse at developing and fielding defenses.

Find better?

And I had his yardage defensive ranking at 11 when i did this after his firing...

For comparison:

"Bill Belicek (NE only) comes in at a respectable 14. Tony Dungy (IND only) ties Bill at a solid 14 (edging him with decimals). Jeff Fischer (over that SAME 14 year span) is on the verge of being below average with 16 (might even be below average if you weight the years he coached pre-expansion). For those that might think this comparison is bull **** or skewed: Bill Cowher, on the other hand, proved to be dynamite with a career average of SIX! Also important to note, his best seasons WERE with Dick Lebeau as well, but still strong even without him, and hiring a HoF DC shouldn't be held against him"

(Disclaimer, all info was from after the 2008 season)

Kaylore
09-06-2011, 06:04 PM
Find better?

And I had his yardage defensive ranking at 11 when i did this after his firing...

For comparison:

"Bill Belicek (NE only) comes in at a respectable 14. Tony Dungy (IND only) ties Bill at a solid 14 (edging him with decimals). Jeff Fischer (over that SAME 14 year span) is on the verge of being below average with 16 (might even be below average if you weight the years he coached pre-expansion). For those that might think this comparison is bull **** or skewed: Bill Cowher, on the other hand, proved to be dynamite with a career average of SIX! Also important to note, his best seasons WERE with Dick Lebeau as well, but still strong even without him, and hiring a HoF DC shouldn't be held against him"

(Disclaimer, all info was from after the 2008 season)

I think you added wrong. Even if you leave off his first season in Washington (where he managed to inherit a team that was tenth best defense in yards and then make the second worst team in the league at 31) he ranks 13th. I would also like to point out that if you take his average for the last ten years which I think everyone agrees is a more current sample they'll see his defenses rank 17.3 in scoring and 15 in yards - average.

Since Belichick has coached he Patriots, his defenses have ranked 15 in yards but 8th (7.6) in scoring. Cowher's defenses averaged 7.3 in scoring. Belichik's are usually consistently excellent and then he has a year of turnover and injuries where they're ranked in the twenties or worse (in terms of yardage) but they always do well in takeaways and scoring.

TheReverend
09-07-2011, 07:32 AM
I think you added wrong. Even if you leave off his first season in Washington (where he managed to inherit a team that was tenth best defense in yards and then make the second worst team in the league at 31) he ranks 13th. I would also like to point out that if you take his average for the last ten years which I think everyone agrees is a more current sample they'll see his defenses rank 17.3 in scoring and 15 in yards - average.

Since Belichick has coached he Patriots, his defenses have ranked 15 in yards but 8th (7.6) in scoring. Cowher's defenses averaged 7.3 in scoring. Belichik's are usually consistently excellent and then he has a year of turnover and injuries where they're ranked in the twenties or worse (in terms of yardage) but they always do well in takeaways and scoring.

Sorry for the delay! I got a call from the gf asking me to come over for Cinnamon rolls for dinner last night... I'll be damned if I'm turning something like that down.

Anyway, I just redid it to check and I got 11.78:

15
4
5
11
7
24
8
6
4
4
15
14
19
29
----
165

165/14yrs=11.78

In fact, I had to ADD IN his first year in Washington with Zorn's personnel to twist it up to a 13 average.

Soooooooooo that doesn't change my mind in the least...

Kaylore
09-07-2011, 09:43 AM
Sorry for the delay! I got a call from the gf asking me to come over for Cinnamon rolls for dinner last night... I'll be damned if I'm turning something like that down.

Anyway, I just redid it to check and I got 11.78:

15
4
5
11
7
24
8
6
4
4
15
14
19
29
----
165

165/14yrs=11.78

In fact, I had to ADD IN his first year in Washington with Zorn's personnel to twist it up to a 13 average.

Soooooooooo that doesn't change my mind in the least...

You didn't add his time as the Raiders coach. And isn't it about points ie scoring defense? Yardage is worthless if you can't keep them out of the endzone. You're cherry picking the most Shanahan-favorable stat. As a coach Shanahan has been average or worse on building a good defense.

TonyR
09-07-2011, 10:05 AM
I got a call from the gf....

Cinnamon rolls for dinner?

jhns
09-07-2011, 10:06 AM
You didn't add his time as the Raiders coach. And isn't it about points ie scoring defense? Yardage is worthless if you can't keep them out of the endzone. You're cherry picking the most Shanahan-favorable stat. As a coach Shanahan has been average or worse on building a good defense.

Everyone uses yards to rank offenses and defenses...

TheReverend
09-07-2011, 10:42 AM
You didn't add his time as the Raiders coach. And isn't it about points ie scoring defense? Yardage is worthless if you can't keep them out of the endzone. You're cherry picking the most Shanahan-favorable stat. As a coach Shanahan has been average or worse on building a good defense.

Okay then.

165 + 19 = 184

184 / 15 = 12.2

We're still not at 13? And that's being generous and not including the #10 rank in 89 that he only partially coached which would slightly lower the average.

And I didn't do scoring defense because I feel it's much more dependent on the offense as well and not as good of a reflection. It wasn't to cherry pick a ranking that averages two whole spots higher (if your math there was even correct :wave: )

If anyone is cherry picking anything, it's clearly you setting odd parameters (10 years just to fit one of the outliers, #24, into your average), etc.

TheReverend
09-07-2011, 10:42 AM
Cinnamon rolls for dinner?

Yup. I had 7 Ha!

So worth it.

Kaylore
09-07-2011, 11:30 AM
If anyone is cherry picking anything, it's clearly you setting odd parameters (10 years just to fit one of the outliers, #24, into your average), etc.

There his most recent ten years! Consecutive to this point. I know you love Shanahan, I do too, but making up crap and thinking we're all go remember his bad defenses, bad drafts and wasted free agents differently is ridiculous. Showing a trend for the last ten years is a better indicator of how a coach is doing in today's NFL. It's not like I picked out just his 10 worst seasons (or I suppose I did in some sense since he hasn't known what to do on defense for a decade).

TheReverend
09-07-2011, 11:38 AM
There his most recent ten years! Consecutive to this point. I know you love Shanahan, I do too, but making up crap and thinking we're all go remember his bad defenses, bad drafts and wasted free agents differently is ridiculous. Showing a trend for the last ten years is a better indicator of how a coach is doing in today's NFL. It's not like I picked out just his 10 worst seasons (or I suppose I did in some sense since he hasn't known what to do on defense for a decade).

They're :kiss:

EVEN with calling it the past 10 years (convenient :P ) it's still above average. Not this terrible disaster that everyone remembers because the last 2.25 years were very bad after Al Wilson broke.

...but that's the reality of it. AND we were sitting on a PRIME defensive draft, a PRIME defensive FA period with a buttload of cap room and he publicly acknowledged the offensive personnel were in place by calling anyone who might mess with offense a fool in his farewell presser (and he was right).

We'd be a GREAT (not good, GREAT) team right now staying the course. I have no doubts.

Facts that get over-looked because of emotional response to the last 2.25 years after Al Wilson got hurt:

In FOURTEEN YEARS as the Broncos coach, he fielded a top half defense ALL BUT 4 times (and yes, that includes the 95 team at #15 considering the # of teams in the NFL at the time... btw he rapidly improved that D to #4 and #5 :P )

TheReverend
09-07-2011, 11:39 AM
Goddamn it, the : P face is so gay.

Peoples Champ
09-07-2011, 11:54 AM
thats now two bears quarterbacks that they let go and are starting somewhere else