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BowlenBall
09-02-2011, 06:15 AM
Orton:
Week 1: 2/6, 37 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/13, 135 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: 16/23, 236 yards, one TD, one INT, 4 yards rushing
Week 4: DNP
Overall: 28/42 (66.6% completion percentage), 408 yards, two TDs, one INT, 4 yards rushing, QB rating of 104.1

Quinn:
Week 1: 8/14, 120 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/16, 130 yards, one TD, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: DNP
Week 4: 4/12, 26 yards, no TDs, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Overall: 22/42 (52.3% completion percentage), 276 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 0 yards rushing, QB rating of 69.1

Tebow:
Week 1: 6/7, 91 yards, no TDs, no INTS, 15 yards rushing
Week 2: 1/2, 10 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 7 yards rushing
Week 3: 6/11, 93 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 25 yards rushing
Week 4: 7/11, 116 yards, one TD, no INTs, 8 yards rushing
Overall: 20/31 (64.5% completion percentage), 320 yards, one TD, no INTs, 55 yards rushing, QB rating of 109.6

Statistics pulled from www.nfl.com
QB ratings calculated from http://www.primecomputing.com/

Kaylore
09-02-2011, 06:20 AM
Tebow will be able to start soon enough when Orton goes down sometime mid season. By then he'll be even more polished and they will be able to re-scheme around his abilities.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 06:20 AM
The numbers seem to speak for themselves, especially in terms of Quinn vs. Tebow.

Man-Goblin
09-02-2011, 06:22 AM
Quinn shat in his diaper last night.

jhns
09-02-2011, 06:22 AM
I be smart Orton fan. Tebow be fourth string!

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 06:29 AM
Honestly looking at Tebow's numbers and then seeing all the anti-Tebow posters claiming he's been crappy...there's clearly some kind of disconnect there...

Kaylore
09-02-2011, 06:37 AM
Honestly looking at Tebow's numbers and then seeing all the anti-Tebow posters claiming he's been crappy...there's clearly some kind of disconnect there...

Both sides are ridiculous. The haters re-imagine everything he does as absolutely awful when he's looked rough but crudely effective. The homers argue he's the best QB on the roster and should be starting which is just as stupid.

go_broncos
09-02-2011, 06:40 AM
Orton will be injured anyway..Tebow will be starting this season.
That's the reason i am not that upset with Orton starting the season

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 06:40 AM
Both sides are ridiculous. The haters re-imagine everything he does as absolutely awful when he's looked rough but crudely effective. The homers argue he's the best QB on the roster and should be starting which is just as stupid.

Yep. It's strange to compare what's going on in the national media with the fanbase. The media is hyper-critical of Tebow and makes Orton sound like Peyton Manning, while the fanbase by and large is hyper-critical of Orton and makes Tebow sound like Steve Young. Pretty strange.

Irish Stout
09-02-2011, 06:41 AM
Both sides are ridiculous. The haters re-imagine everything he does as absolutely awful when he's looked rough but crudely effective. The homers argue he's the best QB on the roster and should be starting which is just as stupid.

Please stop being rational. It is not allowed here.

Br0nc0Buster
09-02-2011, 06:45 AM
Im not sure if it was the pressure, but Tebow looked so much better from the shotgun

Even just his passes
Perfect spirals, perfect accuracy

Contrast with some of those wobblers he has thrown when taking the snap from under center

Talent and accuracy is there I think, but he just doesnt yet look comfortable running a PRO style offense

Ray Finkle
09-02-2011, 06:45 AM
SCREW IT ALL! BRING BACK MCD TO FIX THIS MESS...

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 06:46 AM
Both sides are ridiculous. The haters re-imagine everything he does as absolutely awful when he's looked rough but crudely effective. The homers argue he's the best QB on the roster and should be starting which is just as stupid.

I think a lot of people who would prefer him start don't actually think he's the best QB on the roster so much as they want to see what he's got (seeing as he's the QB on our roster who is contracted beyond this season).

Personally I think the issue is that many people (and I've gotten the impression that you are one of them) seem to think that passing is all a QB really needs to be good at. And as far as that goes, I think Orton is a better pure passer right now. The problem is that Tebow is superior in pretty much every other way, and to me that tips the scales in his favor. You may disagree with me (and others who share the same viewpoint), but I really don't understand how you could claim my view is "just stupid".

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 06:51 AM
Im not sure if it was the pressure, but Tebow looked so much better from the shotgun

Even just his passes
Perfect spirals, perfect accuracy

Contrast with some of those wobblers he has thrown when taking the snap from under center

Talent and accuracy is there I think, but he just doesnt yet look comfortable running a PRO style offense

The shotgun is what he's thrown from his entire football career as far as I'm aware. So it makes sense that he'd play better from it.

And there's really no reason an NFL team can't run their offense primarily from the shotgun. You can run nearly all the same plays from the shotgun than you can from under center. College football has shown this.

I do think that Tebow needs to master dropping back mind you, but I think he could play now if they would simply make some adjustments for his skill set.

jhns
09-02-2011, 06:53 AM
Both sides are ridiculous. The haters re-imagine everything he does as absolutely awful when he's looked rough but crudely effective. The homers argue he's the best QB on the roster and should be starting which is just as stupid.

Yeah! It is stupid to think the guy that has proven he can produce better, should start! I mean, why would you not want the seventh year pro that still can't handle physical or emotional pressure? You would be pretty stupid to not want the guy that led us to 22nd in scoring!

RhymesayersDU
09-02-2011, 07:13 AM
Honestly looking at Tebow's numbers and then seeing all the anti-Tebow posters claiming he's been crappy...there's clearly some kind of disconnect there...

My take on that is this:

Tebow hasn't looked good. I'm a Tebow guy, but after watching the preseason I didn't think he looked great. I am shocked to read the stats in this thread, to be honest. Just from an eye test, I was worried about him. Maybe my expectations were unreasonable, I don't know. These stats leave me very pleasantly surprised.

HAT
09-02-2011, 07:26 AM
Yeah! It is stupid to think the guy that has proven he can produce better, should start!

Orton's 3 best games were far superior to Tebow's best 3 games in 2010 if that's what you're referring to.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 07:30 AM
Im not sure if it was the pressure, but Tebow looked so much better from the shotgun

Even just his passes
Perfect spirals, perfect accuracy

Contrast with some of those wobblers he has thrown when taking the snap from under center

Talent and accuracy is there I think, but he just doesnt yet look comfortable running a PRO style offense

That's exactly why he needs to play. The team needs to grow with him. The guy moves the ball every time he is in there. Wasting our time with Orton is just fugging stupid.

WolfpackGuy
09-02-2011, 07:32 AM
They all suck.

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 07:32 AM
My take on that is this:

Tebow hasn't looked good. I'm a Tebow guy, but after watching the preseason I didn't think he looked great. I am shocked to read the stats in this thread, to be honest. Just from an eye test, I was worried about him. Maybe my expectations were unreasonable, I don't know. These stats leave me very pleasantly surprised.

What you're describing is Tebow in a nut shell. No one would look great behind that offensive line, but despite looking raggedy at times, he's effective when given the chance.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 07:33 AM
Orton's 3 best games were far superior to Tebow's best 3 games in 2010 if that's what you're referring to.

Huh?

Punisher
09-02-2011, 07:33 AM
All Orton needs to do is not turn the ball over and score 17-20 a game and we can get some Ws I'm really sold on the defense

Kaylore
09-02-2011, 07:33 AM
I think a lot of people who would prefer him start don't actually think he's the best QB on the roster so much as they want to see what he's got (seeing as he's the QB on our roster who is contracted beyond this season).

Personally I think the issue is that many people (and I've gotten the impression that you are one of them) seem to think that passing is all a QB really needs to be good at. And as far as that goes, I think Orton is a better pure passer right now. The problem is that Tebow is superior in pretty much every other way, and to me that tips the scales in his favor. You may disagree with me (and others who share the same viewpoint), but I really don't understand how you could claim my view is "just stupid".

If you're saying you think I'm one of those "people" who believes a QB should be better at passing than running, then yes; Guilty as charged. That said, I'm not anti-Tebow. I'm for him playing when he's ready and want to make sure he isn't put in too early. Not because it would "ruin him" so much as people would make a premature judgement on him. If he started now he'd look like crap and after a few games many would say "well he's not good enough! Draft Luck!" which is stupid. He's a project, but a worthy one. Ride out Orton until he goes down and then what Tebow has at that point. Then give him a full offseason of coaching and OTA's refine his game and let him go next season.

Starting him now is stupid because he's not ready, it wouldn't let you "see what he's got" because he doesn't have anything yet, it would piss off the locker room and create a huge controversy for a new Head Coach trying to win over his players. You and the haters seems to think either we have to start Tebow or trade/cut him. There's more than one endgame here...

jhns
09-02-2011, 07:34 AM
Orton's 3 best games were far superior to Tebow's best 3 games in 2010 if that's what you're referring to.

Now try finding three games in a row that he peformed better than Tebow. No one cares about your cherry picking of three out of thirteen games.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 07:35 AM
All Orton needs to do is not turn the ball over and score 17-20 a game and we can get some Ws I'm really sold on the defense

This defense is an injury or two away from being abysmal.

Punisher
09-02-2011, 07:37 AM
This defense is an injury or two away from being abysmal.

That's for every team aint it?

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 07:38 AM
Orton's 3 best games were far superior to Tebow's best 3 games in 2010 if that's what you're referring to.

And his worst three games were FAR worse. Funny how that works. Ha!

DrFate
09-02-2011, 07:38 AM
Starting him now is stupid because he's not ready, it wouldn't let you "see what he's got" because he doesn't have anything yet, it would piss off the locker room and create a huge controversy for a new Head Coach trying to win over his players. You and the haters seems to think either we have to start Tebow or trade/cut him. There's more than one endgame here...

I can't speak to locker room unrest, but Tebow isn't going to get 'more' ready without playing time. That's always been my contention. He had all last year to 'learn to read defenses' or whatever mental flaws the media claims he has. You can only learn so much watching game film. And considering Orton is playing somewhere else in 2012, it is VITAL to this franchise that they find out if Tebow is a solution or if they need to look at drafting a QB next year. Having another poor season, and going into 2012 with the exact same questions at the most important position on the field will not get the Broncos out of this cycle.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 07:38 AM
That's for every team aint it?

Nope.

Punisher
09-02-2011, 07:39 AM
If manning or brady goes down both teams will suck won't they?

McDman
09-02-2011, 07:39 AM
Honestly looking at Tebow's numbers and then seeing all the anti-Tebow posters claiming he's been crappy...there's clearly some kind of disconnect there...

The exact same thimg can be said about Orton, that's why looking at stats can be misleading.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 07:43 AM
If manning or brady goes down both teams will suck won't they?

Not necessarily. The Pats went 11-5 in 2008 with Brady out for the whole season.

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 07:43 AM
Orton's 3 best games were far superior to Tebow's best 3 games in 2010 if that's what you're referring to.

That's a laughable retort. "A seven year QBs best 3, cherry-picked,games would be better than a rookie's first 3 starts."

Try to find a 3 game stretch where Orton put up more than 21 points. Go.

DrFate
09-02-2011, 07:43 AM
The exact same thimg can be said about Orton, that's why looking at stats can be misleading.

What I don't get is the national media, who really shouldn't have a vested interest in any of it, has a default of 'Orton looked sharp' and 'Tebow looked shaky' regardless of actual play. Orton goes 2 of 6 and he's lauded. Tebow goes 5 of 6 and his play is questioned. It's confusing to me.

DrFate
09-02-2011, 07:44 AM
Not necessarily. The Pats went 11-5 in 2008 with Brady out for the whole season.

Which was a 5 game drop from the previous season.

Punisher
09-02-2011, 07:46 AM
Not necessarily. The Pats went 11-5 in 2008 with Brady out for the whole season.

matt cassel

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 07:46 AM
That's for every team aint it?

Uh, no. If you watched last night you would have seen that this team has zero depth.

rock
09-02-2011, 07:48 AM
That's for every team aint it?

No... See the Steelers.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 07:49 AM
If you're saying you think I'm one of those "people" who believes a QB should be better at passing than running, then yes; Guilty as charged. That said, I'm not anti-Tebow. I'm for him playing when he's ready and want to make sure he isn't put in too early. Not because it would "ruin him" so much as people would make a premature judgement on him. If he started now he'd look like crap and after a few games many would say "well he's not good enough! Draft Luck!" which is stupid. He's a project, but a worthy one. Ride out Orton until he goes down and then what Tebow has at that point. Then give him a full offseason of coaching and OTA's refine his game and let him go next season.

Starting him now is stupid because he's not ready, it wouldn't let you "see what he's got" because he doesn't have anything yet, it would piss off the locker room and create a huge controversy for a new Head Coach trying to win over his players. You and the haters seems to think either we have to start Tebow or trade/cut him. There's more than one endgame here...

He started three games last season and never really looked like "crap". He hasn't looked like "crap" in the preseason either. I really don't get what you're basing your conclusion that he will look like "crap" off of. Meanwhile we are a team that has very little chance of contending running with a "win now" QB that isn't good at making winning plays. I just don't get it.

As far as thinking passing is more important than running at QB, that wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that Orton's edge in passing alone doesn't outweigh Tebow's advantages in every other area. To think it does seems to imply that one thinks all a QB needs to be good at is passing from a pocket which is miles from the truth. And I'm referring to a lot more than the mobility issue. Tebow is simply better in every way other than passing. To me that counts for a lot.

McDman
09-02-2011, 07:49 AM
What I don't get is the national media, who really shouldn't have a vested interest in any of it, has a default of 'Orton looked sharp' and 'Tebow looked shaky' regardless of actual play. Orton goes 2 of 6 and he's lauded. Tebow goes 5 of 6 and his play is questioned. It's confusing to me.

I'll agree that I don't get why people thought Orton looked good in that first game, because he didn't. But the second and third game he looked pretty good except for a few mistakes.

The thing with Tebow right now that is painfully obvious is he panics when his first read isn't open. If he can fix that and accuracy he'll be fine.

Punisher
09-02-2011, 07:50 AM
Uh, no. If you watched last night you would have seen that this team has zero depth.

lol Ok so you convinced me that every team has depth besides the broncos thank you

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 07:50 AM
The exact same thimg can be said about Orton, that's why looking at stats can be misleading.

What's misleading about Orton's stats? He's good until it matters most. That's well represented by the stats.

Punisher
09-02-2011, 07:51 AM
No... See the Steelers.

Name all the back ups on The Steelers please

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 07:52 AM
That's a laughable retort. "A seven year QBs best 3, cherry-picked,games would be better than a rookie's first 3 starts."

Try to find a 3 game stretch where Orton put up more than 21 points. Go.

This is one of the stupider argument folks are making in Tebow's favor. "He scored more points per game !!!111!!" Yeah, over a scant three game sample, and with significant qualifiers. For example, only a dumbass would give Tebow much credit for scoring 23 points against the Raiders. The offense only produced 235 yards and 9 first downs. The reason we scored 3 points over the season average is because the defense uncharacteristically forced 3 turnovers, all in Raiders territory. The San Diego game is another example. We scored 27 points, but 7 came on a kickoff return, and Tebow did not look good until the end of the game. Had that been Orton, you guys would have said he just padded his stats in garbage time. Hell, his stats weren't that great even with the grabage time enhancement. The game where Tebow really showed his promise was the Houston game. I would agree that there's no way Orton leads a 17 point comeback like Tebow did. Still, he looked crappy in the first half against the only defense in the league worse than our own.

Don't get me wrong....I'm not hating on Tebow. I like him. Hell, I'd prefer we start him, not because he's the best QB right, but just so we can see what we have with him. But to act like that scant three game sample last season proved he's better than Orton, particularly given the qualifiers I provided above, is quite frankly stupid.

DrFate
09-02-2011, 07:54 AM
I'll agree that I don't get why people thought Orton looked good in that first game, because he didn't. But the second and third game he looked pretty good except for a few mistakes.

Agreed


The thing with Tebow right now that is painfully obvious is he panics when his first read isn't open. If he can fix that and accuracy he'll be fine.

The results don't necessarily sync up with these opinions. You can say 'obvious he panics' and Mangini can say 'over-caffeinated' and the other ESPN nitwits can say 'lost' or 'confused' or whatever - but the results end results don't look like that. The results are pretty good. The completion percentage is good, the yards per attempt are pretty good. It's not Peyton Manning passing-clinic 'pretty' - but it seems to be effective.

gyldenlove
09-02-2011, 07:57 AM
Both sides are ridiculous. The haters re-imagine everything he does as absolutely awful when he's looked rough but crudely effective. The homers argue he's the best QB on the roster and should be starting which is just as stupid.

Tebow is one of the few QBs who can look good behind a bad offensive line because of the way he plays the game, on the other hand there is no guarantee that he will look much better behind a good offensive line, whereas a guy like Orton or Quinn will look absolutely horrendous behind a bad line but may be very good behind a good line.

jhns
09-02-2011, 07:58 AM
This one of the stupider argument folks are making in Tebow's favor. "He scored more points per game !!!111!!" Yeah, over a scant three game sample, and with significant qualifiers. For example, only a dumbass would give Tebow much credit for scoring 23 points against the Raiders. The offense only produced 235 yards and 9 first downs. The reason we scored 3 points over the season average is because the defense uncharacteristically forced 3 turnovers, all in Raiders territory. The San Diego game is another example. We scored 27 points, but 7 came on a kickoff return, and Tebow did not look good until the end of the game. Had that been Orton, you guys would have said he just padded his stats in garbage time. Hell, his stats weren't that great even with the grabage time enhancement. The game where Tebow really showed his promise was the Houston game. I would agree that there's no way Orton leads a 17 point comeback like Tebow did. Still, he looked crappy in the first half against the only defense in the league worse than our own.

Don't get me wrong....I'm not hating on Tebow. I like him. Hell, I'd prefer we start him, not because he's the best QB right, but just so we can see what we have with him. But to act like that scant three game sample last season proved he's better than Orton, particularly given the qualifiers I provided above, is quite frankly stupid.

You can bring up this same crap with Orton. He led us to 22nd in scoring even though Tebow was coming in and scoring for him. We had defensive and special teams score for Orton. Tebow did not play in garbage time. He never took a single snap while losing by a lot in the fourth.

Guess what? In Ortons two years here, this team never scored 20 plus in three straight games. You claim the defense helped Tebow... Well, Orton played with a top ten defense his first year here, and one that was fantastic the first half of the season.

Tebow produces. Orton doesn't. Facts have no place in arguments with the Orton fan club though.

rock
09-02-2011, 08:01 AM
Name all the back ups on The Steelers please

It doesn't matter. They've had starters go down and ALWAYS have a top defense. Always. Their depth is pretty damn amazing. Especially at the LB position.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:01 AM
lol Ok so you convinced me that every team has depth besides the broncos thank you

Don't be a dip****.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:03 AM
Agreed



The results don't necessarily sync up with these opinions. You can say 'obvious he panics' and Mangini can say 'over-caffeinated' and the other ESPN nitwits can say 'lost' or 'confused' or whatever - but the results end results don't look like that. The results are pretty good. The completion percentage is good, the yards per attempt are pretty good. It's not Peyton Manning passing-clinic 'pretty' - but it seems to be effective.

The argument about not getting past one or two reads is stupid. Most QBs don't make more than one or two reads after the snap... They use this as an argument against Tebow as they clearly show they haven't been paying attention. Last week had a great example of Orton doing the same thing. The play where Lloyd fell in the end zone. Orton only looked at Lloyd that play. Even after Lloyd fell, and had two guys standing over him, Orton still sat there looking at him for five seconds before throwing it away. Good QBs make a lot of their reads beford the snap. Multiple reads can only happwn if you have great protection.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:04 AM
You can bring up this same crap with Orton. He led us to 22nd in scoring even though Tebow was coming in and scoring for him. We had defensive and special teams score for Orton. Tebow did not play in garbage time. He never took a single snap while losing by a lot in the fourth.

Guess what? In Ortons two years here, this team never scored 20 plus in three straight games. You claim the defense helped Tebow... Well, Orton played with a top ten defense his first year here, and one that was fantastic the first half of the season.

Tebow produces. Orton doesn't. Facts have no place in arguments with the Orton fan club though.

You didn't do a thing to refute any of the points I made. The offense was horrible against Oakland. 235 yards and 9 first downs. Three turnovers forced by the D in Raiders territory led to the 23 points. 7 of the 27 points agaist SD came on a KO return, so Tebow shouldn't get any credit for that. So, there's really only one game where Tebow looked good and was truly responsible for scoring over the season average, and that was against an historically bad defense. It's not the "Orton fan club" here. I think we are spinning our wheels with him. I'd love it if Tebow would play well enough to take the starting job from him. But I am just looking at it realistically. You are just using a three game sample to draw conclusions and refusing to consider the significant qualifiers I've pointed out.

Kaylore
09-02-2011, 08:07 AM
I can't speak to locker room unrest, but Tebow isn't going to get 'more' ready without playing time. That's always been my contention. He had all last year to 'learn to read defenses' or whatever mental flaws the media claims he has. You can only learn so much watching game film. And considering Orton is playing somewhere else in 2012, it is VITAL to this franchise that they find out if Tebow is a solution or if they need to look at drafting a QB next year. Having another poor season, and going into 2012 with the exact same questions at the most important position on the field will not get the Broncos out of this cycle.

Neither is playing Tebow too early. And throwing the other players under the bus for one guy who clearly hasn't earned the starting position is a road to disaster. It also won't endear Tebow's teammates to him. News Flash: We weren't winning the Super Bowl this year. Tebow has clearly regressed from the lack of OTA's, practice time and losing McDaniels as a QB coach. He obviously needs more time taking snaps during the week to re-acquaint himself with the pro style.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:07 AM
The results don't necessarily sync up with these opinions. You can say 'obvious he panics' and Mangini can say 'over-caffeinated' and the other ESPN nitwits can say 'lost' or 'confused' or whatever - but the results end results don't look like that. The results are pretty good. The completion percentage is good, the yards per attempt are pretty good. It's not Peyton Manning passing-clinic 'pretty' - but it seems to be effective.

Indeed. Confused and panicking QBs throw interceptions and have terrible stats. Brady Quinn last night is a good example. It just seems that people are watching Tebow through some kind of ass-backwards lens that places more emphasis on how he looks instead of how he produces. It's odd.

DrFate
09-02-2011, 08:08 AM
You didn't do a thing to refute any of the points I made. The offense was horrible against Oakland. 235 yards and 9 first downs. Three turnovers forced by the D in Raiders territory led to the 23 points. 7 of the 27 points agaist SD came on a KO return, so Tebow shouldn't get any credit for that. So, there's really only one game where Tebow looked good and was truly responsible for scoring over the season average, and that was against an historically bad defense.


These results were Tebow's first 3 career starts. Chances are high he will improve on these results.

Orton has 6 years in the league. The chances he improves are not high.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:09 AM
You didn't do a thing to refute any of the points I made. The offense was horrible against Oakland. 235 yards and 9 first downs. Three turnovers forced by the D in Raiders territory led to the 23 points. 7 of the 27 points agaist SD came on a KO return, so Tebow shouldn't get any credit for that. So, there's really only one game where Tebow looked good and was truly responsible for scoring over the season average, and that was against an historically bad defense. It's not the "Orton fan club" here. I think we are spinning our wheels with him. I'd love it if Tebow would play well enough to take the starting job from him. But I am just looking at it realistically. You are just using a three game sample to draw conclusions and refusing to consider the significant qualifiers I've pointed out.

Again, Orton had defensive, Tebow, and special teams TDs. He had a great defense that put him in good positions. Tebow produced more. These are the facts. I'm not claiming Tebow is a great QB. It is a fact that he outproduced Orton. Look at what Orton did against those same two teams last season...

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:10 AM
Tebow did not play in garbage time. He never took a single snap while losing by a lot in the fourth.


Ummmm, what?!? We were down 33-14 in the 4th quarter of the San Diego game.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:11 AM
These results were Tebow's first 3 career starts. Chances are high he will improve on these results.

Orton has 6 years in the league. The chances he improves are not high.

That may well be. I'm just pointing out that the "Tebow outplayed Orton" argument based on a three game sample has a couple of hitches.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-02-2011, 08:12 AM
This defense is an injury or two away from being abysmal.

you can say this about a lot of teams

DrFate
09-02-2011, 08:12 AM
Neither is playing Tebow too early. And throwing the other players under the bus for one guy who clearly hasn't earned the starting position is a road to disaster. It also won't endear Tebow's teammates to him. News Flash: We weren't winning the Super Bowl this year. Tebow has clearly regressed from the lack of OTA's, practice time and losing McDaniels as a QB coach. He obviously needs more time taking snaps during the week to re-acquaint himself with the pro style.

This is what continues to elude me Kaylore.

Tebow won't get (as many) snaps in practice. He won't get snaps in the games. How does he get better?

And you admit this isn't a Super Bowl team. What is the downside of playing Tebow now? If he were throwing pick after pick in the preseason and was as 'lost' the media claims, I could understand it. If he had 5 turnovers a game, he shouldn't play (he shouldn't be on the team). But he's not. His numbers are pretty good, the team is going nowhere in 2011, and Orton isn't getting a long term deal here. It simply doesn't make sense to keep trotting Kyle out there.

It would be better for the franchise for Tebow to play, utterly fall on his face, and be ready to draft a QB in 2011 than this outcome - Orton play, Tebow sit, team wins 6 games - and no one knows how to handle the QB position in 2012.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:12 AM
Again, Orton had defensive, Tebow, and special teams TDs. He had a great defense that put him in good positions. Tebow produced more. These are the facts. I'm not claiming Tebow is a great QB. It is a fact that he outproduced Orton. Look at what Orton did against those same two teams last season...

He didn't "produce more" when you take into account the factors I pointed out in my previous post. You've still done absolutely nothing to refute any of it.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:14 AM
Ummmm, what?!? We were down 33-14 in the 4th quarter of the San Diego game.

Not while Tebow was taking snaps. Can you not read or do you just not watch the games?

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:14 AM
He didn't "produce more" when you take into account the factors I pointed out in my previous post. You've still done absolutely nothing to refute any of it.

Yes, he did. Everything I have said refutes it.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:14 AM
You didn't do a thing to refute any of the points I made. The offense was horrible against Oakland. 235 yards and 9 first downs. Three turnovers forced by the D in Raiders territory led to the 23 points. 7 of the 27 points agaist SD came on a KO return, so Tebow shouldn't get any credit for that. So, there's really only one game where Tebow looked good and was truly responsible for scoring over the season average, and that was against an historically bad defense. It's not the "Orton fan club" here. I think we are spinning our wheels with him. I'd love it if Tebow would play well enough to take the starting job from him. But I am just looking at it realistically. You are just using a three game sample to draw conclusions and refusing to consider the significant qualifiers I've pointed out.

Dude, you argument is **** when you bring up the Oakland game. Obviously you didn't watch the game. If you had, you would have seen that the offensive gameplan was pulled straight from the 1940's.

And you do not acknowledge the fantastic TD run and TD pass that Tebow had in that game. I also remember some scrub RB dropping a for sure TD in the endzone. Hit him right in the hands.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:15 AM
Neither is playing Tebow too early. And throwing the other players under the bus for one guy who clearly hasn't earned the starting position is a road to disaster. It also won't endear Tebow's teammates to him. News Flash: We weren't winning the Super Bowl this year. Tebow has clearly regressed from the lack of OTA's, practice time and losing McDaniels as a QB coach. He obviously needs more time taking snaps during the week to re-acquaint himself with the pro style.

No matter what some reporters might claim, we are never going to know what the locker room thinks on the matter or how they would react if Fox started Tebow instead of Orton. The entire topic is spurious in the extreme.

Honestly though I just don't buy this notion that they would rebel. They are professionals playing for roster spots and paydays. They are going to play for whoever is the QB. To do otherwise doesn't serve their best interests in any way.

Besides I'm willing to bet that Tebow's on-field leadership trumps any perceived injustice done to Orton (who has virtually no on-field leadership).

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:17 AM
Not while Tebow was taking snaps. Can you not read or do you just not watch the games?

The immediate TD return doesn't fit his argument so he "forgot" it. Ha!

DrFate
09-02-2011, 08:17 AM
No matter what some reporters might claim, we are never going to know what the locker room thinks on the matter or how they would react if Fox started Tebow instead of Orton. The entire topic is spurious in the extreme.


The 'lose the locker room' argument also ignores the Orton-to-Miami trade. Fox/Elway weren't worried about losing the locker room from JAN to AUG

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:18 AM
Neither is playing Tebow too early. And throwing the other players under the bus for one guy who clearly hasn't earned the starting position is a road to disaster. It also won't endear Tebow's teammates to him. News Flash: We weren't winning the Super Bowl this year. Tebow has clearly regressed from the lack of OTA's, practice time and losing McDaniels as a QB coach. He obviously needs more time taking snaps during the week to re-acquaint himself with the pro style.

"Clearly regressed"... What a jackass. Tebow looks much better than last season... This decision to not give him a fair shot at starting was made well before any practice this season... Your spins are terrible.

Why even come here to discuss stuff when you can't form your own opinions?

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:19 AM
Not while Tebow was taking snaps. Can you not read or do you just not watch the games?

Again, what?!? We were down by at least two scores right up until there was 32 seconds left in the game. Sorry, if that was Orton, you would say that qualifies as garbage time.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:19 AM
No matter what some reporters might claim, we are never going to know what the locker room thinks on the matter or how they would react if Fox started Tebow instead of Orton. The entire topic is spurious in the extreme.

Honestly though I just don't buy this notion that they would rebel. They are professionals playing for roster spots and paydays. They are going to play for whoever is the QB. To do otherwise doesn't serve their best interests in any way.

Besides I'm willing to bet that Tebow's on-field leadership trumps any perceived injustice done to Orton (who has virtually no on-field leadership).

Did you watch last night? I didn't see Orton in any of the sideline huddles with the QB's. Maybe I missed it because I was watching a stream but I didn't see him mentoring anyone.

And then on the last play when Weber almost scored, who was the first one to greet him and pat him on the head....Tebow. Tebow would have no problem garnering respect from his teammates. NONE.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:20 AM
Did you watch last night? I didn't see Orton in any of the sideline huddles with the QB's. Maybe I missed it because I was watching a stream but I didn't see him mentoring anyone.

And then on the last play when Weber almost scored, who was the first one to greet him and pat him on the head....Tebow. Tebow would have no problem garnering respect from his teammates. NONE.

Exactly.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:20 AM
Dude, you argument is **** when you bring up the Oakland game. Obviously you didn't watch the game. If you had, you would have seen that the offensive gameplan was pulled straight from the 1940's.

I agree, the gameplan was positively mideval. Still, you can't rationally say that Tebow was responsible for leading us to 23 points in that game. That was my only point.

And you do not acknowledge the fantastic TD run and TD pass that Tebow had in that game. I also remember some scrub RB dropping a for sure TD in the endzone. Hit him right in the hands.

You just cited three plays. Three. One of which was an incompletion. C'mon dude, get serious.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:20 AM
Again, what?!? We were down by at least two scores right up until there was 32 seconds left in the game. Sorry, if that was Orton, you would say that qualifies as garbage time.

Again, you are an idiot that doesn't watch the games.

Go ahead and find a single time I have used a garbage time argument against Orton...

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:21 AM
The immediate TD return doesn't fit his argument so he "forgot" it. Ha!

We were still down by two TDs even after that and all the way down to 30 seconds left in the game. Sorry. If you're down by two TDs with less than a minute to go, I call that down big.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:22 AM
I agree, the gameplan was positively mideval. Still, you can't rationally say that Tebow was responsible for leading us to 23 points in that game. That was my only point.



You just cited three plays. Three. One of which was an incompletion. C'mon dude, get serious.

It was his FIRST start! On the road, against a hated rival. He did pretty damn good.

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:23 AM
Again, you are an idiot that doesn't watch the games.


I watched every painful minute of every game last year. Even still have some on my DVR....including this game. What do you think I'm missing? Were we or were we not down by 12 with less than a minute to play?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-02-2011, 08:23 AM
"Clearly regressed"... What a jackass. Tebow looks much better than last season... This decision to not give him a fair shot at starting was made well before any practice this season... Your spins are terrible.

Why even come here to discuss stuff when you can't form your own opinions?

Right, because the team doesn't want its first round draft pick (who also happens to sell a **** load of merch) to start. Genius.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:23 AM
Both sides are ridiculous. The haters re-imagine everything he does as absolutely awful when he's looked rough but crudely effective. The homers argue he's the best QB on the roster and should be starting which is just as stupid.

this

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:24 AM
"Clearly regressed"... What a jackass. Tebow looks much better than last season... This decision to not give him a fair shot at starting was made well before any practice this season... Your spins are terrible.

Why even come here to discuss stuff when you can't form your own opinions?

Seeing as he never got a shot with the starters in camp or the preseason you are absolutely right. There never was a real competition for the starting job. I'm not sure Tebow could've out-practiced Orton even if there had been, but the truth is that there never was a competition in the first place.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:24 AM
We were still down by two TDs even after that and all the way down to 30 seconds left in the game. Sorry. If you're down by two TDs with less than a minute to go, I call that down big.

Wrong again...

This is very easy to look up. How exactly can you be so wrong?

TailgateNut
09-02-2011, 08:24 AM
Ummmm, what?!? We were down 33-14 in the 4th quarter of the San Diego game.

Confusing Jhizz with facts. This should be interestingROFL!

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:25 AM
Right, because the team doesn't want its first round draft pick (who also happens to sell a **** load of merch) to start. Genius.

Umm...clearly they don't want him to start. Have you not been paying attention?

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:25 AM
We were still down by two TDs even after that and all the way down to 30 seconds left in the game. Sorry. If you're down by two TDs with less than a minute to go, I call that down big.

Are you talking the Charger game? If so, I thought we had the ball on their 40 when time ran out and had a play or two to win the game. You see, yes, we were down big, but Tebow led a comeback. Sure, the KO return helped, but Tebow made all kinds of plays in the 4th and was key to getting back in that game. Some 7 year vets would have thown a pick or something in the 4th to dash all hopes.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:26 AM
Seeing as he never got a shot with the starters in camp or the preseason you are absolutely right. There never was a real competition for the starting job. I'm not sure Tebow could've out-practiced Orton even if there had been, but the truth is that there never was a competition in the first place.

They named Orton the starter in like February. As you pointed out, then gave him all first team reps from the start. It is funny when people claim he was beat out by Orton.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:27 AM
It was his FIRST start! On the road, against a hated rival. He did pretty damn good.

That's fine. You obviously don't understand my argument. I'm not bagging on Tebow. I'm just saying that it's pretty simplistic for certain posters to say that Tebow "outplayed" Orton while ignoring some of the factors I've pointed out.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:27 AM
Confusing Jhizz with facts. This should be interestingROFL!

LOL

Leave it to this douche to call wrong info a fact...

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:29 AM
LOL

Leave it to this douche to call wrong info a fact...

Some people are better when only read through quotes...

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:31 AM
That's fine. You obviously don't understand my argument. I'm not bagging on Tebow. I'm just saying that it's pretty simplistic for certain posters to say that Tebow "outplayed" Orton while ignoring some of the factors I've pointed out.

What is your argument? Because Orton played like **** last year (and not well the year before). 3-10 is 3-10. 5-17 is 5-17.

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:33 AM
Wrong again...

This is very easy to look up. How exactly can you be so wrong?

Wrong again? What? We were down 33-21 up until the Tebow TD with 32 seconds left in the game, at which point we went down 33-28. The final score. So there was a 30 second period where we had the score differential down to 5 points. The entire rest of the half we were down by multiple scores, just like I said. That is the very definition of scoring in garbage time against a prevent defense.

Here's the freaking link genius:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#menu=gamepass&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:33 AM
LOL

Leave it to this douche to call wrong info a fact...

Tell me exactly what is "wrong info". I've provided the evidence that proves my case. You, as usual, cannot do the same.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:35 AM
What is your argument? Because Orton played like **** last year (and not well the year before). 3-10 is 3-10. 5-17 is 5-17.

He didn't play like ****. He has thrown 41 TDs, 7455 yards and only 21 INTs in 28 starts for us. That's solid play by any objective, reasonable standard. And I think our poor running game and bottom feeding defense might have had just a little something to do with our poor record, don't you? Of course, the Tebowners aren't capable of an objective, reasonable analysis.

DrFate
09-02-2011, 08:36 AM
Wrong again? What? We were down 33-21 up until the Tebow TD with 32 seconds left in the game, at which point we went down 33-28. The final score. So there was a 30 second period where we had the score differential down to 5 points. The entire rest of the half we were down by multiple scores, just like I said. That is the very definition of scoring in garbage time against a prevent defense.


Not that I want to get into this little feud - but I thought that's what they called 'a comeback'. Get it under one score, get an onside kick, try to win the game?

TailgateNut
09-02-2011, 08:38 AM
Some people are better when only read through quotes...


as it is with Jhizz and most TebowHomers.

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:39 AM
Not that I want to get into this little feud - but I thought that's what they called 'a comeback'. Get it under one score, get an onside kick, try to win the game?

Yup, normally I would. But I'm trying to show the hypocrisy of the anti-Orton crowd. Any time Orton would lead a comeback and get us within a score, only to come up short, all we'd hear is "yup, padded his stats as usual in garbage time, then choked it away at the end." Never was it, "nice comeback Kyle. You almost stole us one."

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:39 AM
That's fine. You obviously don't understand my argument. I'm not bagging on Tebow. I'm just saying that it's pretty simplistic for certain posters to say that Tebow "outplayed" Orton while ignoring some of the factors I've pointed out.

You are an idiot. Let me make this simple for you.

Tebow in those two games:

515 yards, 5 TDs, 2 Ints

Orton vs those same two teams:

440 yards, 3 TDs, 2 Ints


Even when you ignore the fact that we scored more with Tebow in each game, he still outproduced Orton... Again, you are an idiot that clearly doesn't know wtf is going on.

TailgateNut
09-02-2011, 08:40 AM
Wrong again? What? We were down 33-21 up until the Tebow TD with 32 seconds left in the game, at which point we went down 33-28. The final score. So there was a 30 second period where we had the score differential down to 5 points. The entire rest of the half we were down by multiple scores, just like I said. That is the very definition of scoring in garbage time against a prevent defense.

Here's the freaking link genius:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#menu=gamepass&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay


Jhizz - GeniusHilarious!

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:40 AM
He didn't play like ****. He has thrown 41 TDs, 7455 yards and only 21 INTs in 28 starts for us. That's solid play by any objective, reasonable standard. And I think our poor running game and bottom feeding defense might have had just a little something to do with our poor record, don't you? Of course, the Tebowners aren't capable of an objective, reasonable analysis.

Ok, I will give it to you that the running game and defense were horrid. Orton has okay stats but there were a lot of games that we were actually in and Orton did nothing to lead the team to victory. The Colts and 49er games come to mind. But I think that is the argument with Orton, everything had to fall into place for him to win consistently. That's just not realistic unless you are the Pats or some other elite team.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:41 AM
Wrong again? What? We were down 33-21 up until the Tebow TD with 32 seconds left in the game, at which point we went down 33-28. The final score. So there was a 30 second period where we had the score differential down to 5 points. The entire rest of the half we were down by multiple scores, just like I said. That is the very definition of scoring in garbage time against a prevent defense.

Here's the freaking link genius:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#menu=gamepass&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

That isn't two TDs smart guy. Simple subtraction must be too much for you.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:41 AM
Not that I want to get into this little feud - but I thought that's what they called 'a comeback'. Get it under one score, get an onside kick, try to win the game?

I know, call me crazy, but I thought we had a couple of throws into the endzone to win the game.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:43 AM
You are an idiot. Let me make this simple for you.

Tebow in those two games:

515 yards, 5 TDs, 2 Ints

Orton vs those same two teams:

440 yards, 3 TDs, 2 Ints


Even when you ignore the fact that we scored more with Tebow in each game, he still outproduced Orton... Again, you are an idiot that clearly doesn't know wtf is going on.

Two games hardly provides an adequate sample size to prove anything. Particularly given that each of those games has its own set of circumstances, as I've already pointed out.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:43 AM
Tell me exactly what is "wrong info". I've provided the evidence that proves my case. You, as usual, cannot do the same.

Wait, so Tebow took snaps with that score on the board? Again, proving you both are morons. The fact that you were wrong was even pointed out before you just defended it. Wtf is wrong with your head?

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:44 AM
Yup, normally I would. But I'm trying to show the hypocrisy of the anti-Orton crowd. Any time Orton would lead a comeback and get us within a score, only to come up short, all we'd hear is "yup, padded his stats as usual in garbage time, then choked it away at the end." Never was it, "nice comeback Kyle. You almost stole us one."

Orton doesn't lead comebacks. Sometimes a ball takes a crazy bounce, a receiver makes a thousand guys miss, or a corner screws up and commits pass interference on an under-thrown duck, but Orton doesn't lead comebacks...

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:45 AM
Ok, I will give it to you that the running game and defense were horrid. Orton has okay stats but there were a lot of games that we were actually in and Orton did nothing to lead the team to victory. The Colts and 49er games come to mind. But I think that is the argument with Orton, everything had to fall into place for him to win consistently. That's just not realistic unless you are the Pats or some other elite team.

I don't really disagree with anything in your post. I am just pointing out that saying "Tebow outplayed Orton" is not all that cut and dry.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:46 AM
Two games hardly provides an adequate sample size to prove anything. Particularly given that each of those games has its own set of circumstances, as I've already pointed out.

Yeah, one set had a competent QB playing..

It proves enough. The only time this team has scored 20+ in three straight games, was when Tebow was in. That goes for both years Orton was here. That makes your sample size argument a joke. Everything shows Tebow outplayed Orton... I looked before and it is pretty rare that a QB suddenly does worse after his first few starts...

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:46 AM
That isn't two TDs smart guy. Simple subtraction must be too much for you.

A TD is worth 6 pts last time I checked.

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:47 AM
Wait, so Tebow took snaps with that score on the board? Again, proving you both are morons. The fact that you were wrong was even pointed out before you just defended it. Wtf is wrong with your head?

What are you talking about? MY LINK PROVES HE DID TAKE SNAPS WITH THAT SCORE (33-21) ON THE BOARD.

MplsBronco
09-02-2011, 08:49 AM
I don't really disagree with anything in your post. I am just pointing out that saying "Tebow outplayed Orton" is not all that cut and dry.

That's fine. However, I would argue that Orton isn't vastly better than Tebow. Tebow is the young gun, needs to play, needs to get better. Orton is what he is. He isn't right for this team, not at this point in time. By default, we should be going with Tebow. There is nothing to be gained with Orton. Do you really want Orton in a championship game, when the **** hits the fan? I don't. I want a guy that can make something out of nothing. Tebow is that guy.

BroncoInferno
09-02-2011, 08:49 AM
Yeah, one set had a competent QB playing..

It proves enough. The only time this team has scored 20+ in three straight games, was when Tebow was in. That goes for both years Orton was here. That makes your sample size argument a joke.

You've still done nothing to refute the point that we only scored 23 against Oakland because the defense handed the offense three turnovers in Raiders territory, something that did not happen in another game that entire season, or that 7 of the points against SD came from a KO return, which Tebow obviously gets no credit for. I wouldn't hold the latter against him if we were dealing with a larger sample size, but since we only have three games to work with, it's pretty significant.

HAT
09-02-2011, 08:51 AM
Now try finding three games in a row that he peformed better than Tebow. No one cares about your cherry picking of three out of thirteen games.

Exactly.....See how retarded 3 game samples are?

Cito Pelon
09-02-2011, 08:51 AM
Im not sure if it was the pressure, but Tebow looked so much better from the shotgun

Even just his passes
Perfect spirals, perfect accuracy

Contrast with some of those wobblers he has thrown when taking the snap from under center

Talent and accuracy is there I think, but he just doesnt yet look comfortable running a PRO style offense

Yeah, Tebow just needs reps and polish, get his setups right on the dropbacks from under center.

As for BQ, yeesh. That was fubar last night.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:51 AM
What are you talking about? MY LINK PROVES HE DID TAKE SNAPS WITH THAT SCORE (33-21) ON THE BOARD.

Damn you are dumb. Why don't you go back and read the converaation. You claimed he took snaps at 33-14. Tail agreed with you. I laugh at yo both. You claim that is right again becausd you proved he didn't take snaps with that score...

I mean, really. It is not possible to get dumber than that.

KO5K
09-02-2011, 08:53 AM
Wrong again? What? We were down 33-21 up until the Tebow TD with 32 seconds left in the game, at which point we went down 33-28. The final score. So there was a 30 second period where we had the score differential down to 5 points. The entire rest of the half we were down by multiple scores, just like I said. That is the very definition of scoring in garbage time against a prevent defense.

Here's the freaking link genius:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos#menu=gamepass&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

I wouldn't agree with that.

Tebow had a couple of shots at the endzone to win that game, I remember one of them being pretty close.

We beat the Bengals, and the Jags won that game last year in similar scenarios. The way I see it, if you have a chance to win the game at the end, it's not garbage time.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:55 AM
Exactly.....See how retarded 3 game samples are?

Nope. I don't see how your retarded spin shows anything. A three game sample, out of three games, is far different than cherry picking three games out of 40... If you find that it is common for a QB to perform worse after their first few games, maybe you would have an argument. Should I show you Ortons first three games? Tebow outplayed Ortons rookie year by a lot more than he outplayed Ortons seventh...

BowlenBall
09-02-2011, 08:56 AM
Orton:
Week 1: 2/6, 37 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/13, 135 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: 16/23, 236 yards, one TD, one INT, 4 yards rushing
Week 4: DNP
Overall: 28/42 (66.6% completion percentage), 408 yards, two TDs, one INT, 4 yards rushing, QB rating of 104.1

Quinn:
Week 1: 8/14, 120 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/16, 130 yards, one TD, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: DNP
Week 4: 4/12, 26 yards, no TDs, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Overall: 22/42 (52.3% completion percentage), 276 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 0 yards rushing, QB rating of 69.1

Tebow:
Week 1: 6/7, 91 yards, no TDs, no INTS, 15 yards rushing
Week 2: 1/2, 10 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 7 yards rushing
Week 3: 6/11, 93 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 25 yards rushing
Week 4: 7/11, 116 yards, one TD, no INTs, 8 yards rushing
Overall: 20/31 (64.5% completion percentage), 320 yards, one TD, no INTs, 55 yards rushing, QB rating of 109.6

Statistics pulled from www.nfl.com
QB ratings calculated from http://www.primecomputing.com/

Back to the content in the original post (ahem, ahem)....

The overall statistics for the preseason lead me to a few conclusions:

1) Hoge, Esiason, et al. jumping all over Tebow and saying he looks terrible and will never succeed is ridiculous. In fact, he's playing exceptionally well considering how bad our 2nd-string offensive line has been. He may never be John Elway, but he's already escaped the "bust" tag.

2) Tebow is clearly better than Brady Quinn in all phases of the passing game-- both the stats and my eyes tell me Quinn is 3rd on this team. Orton is better than Tebow on short and intermediate throws, but Tebow is quite a bit better with the long ball, and infinitely better on roll-outs and broken plays.

3) Kyle Orton is a caretaker quarterback who goes fetal under pressure and has a history of poor performance in the red zone. He won't a lose a game for you, but he can't win one either. These facts are self-evident and cannot be denied.

4) There's a 99% chance that both Orton and Quinn will be gone at this time next year -- so if you don't like Tebow, better jump on the Weber bandwagon now....

HAT
09-02-2011, 08:57 AM
Don't get your tampon all twisted jhzz...I'm a Tebow fan. I just like the Broncos more.

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 08:57 AM
Damn you are dumb. Why don't you go back and read the converaation. You claimed he took snaps at 33-14. Tail agreed with you. I laugh at yo both. You claim that is right again becausd you proved he didn't take snaps with that score...

I mean, really. It is not possible to get dumber than that.

No matter how you try to spin the conversation, here's the bottom line. You said this:

Tebow never took a single snap while losing by a lot in the fourth.


My link proves that he was taking snaps down by two TDs with less than a minute to play in the SD game. I think that qualifies as losing by a lot. If you don't, then you don't. Whatever. I'll move on.

jhns
09-02-2011, 08:58 AM
You've still done nothing to refute the point that we only scored 23 against Oakland because the defense handed the offense three turnovers in Raiders territory, something that did not happen in another game that entire season, or that 7 of the points against SD came from a KO return, which Tebow obviously gets no credit for. I wouldn't hold the latter against him if we were dealing with a larger sample size, but since we only have three games to work with, it's pretty significant.

So he put up better numbers, the offense performed better, but it doesn't count because you say so? Great argument! I guess we are done here.

errand
09-02-2011, 08:59 AM
Im not sure if it was the pressure, but Tebow looked so much better from the shotgun

Even just his passes
Perfect spirals, perfect accuracy

Contrast with some of those wobblers he has thrown when taking the snap from under center

Talent and accuracy is there I think, but he just doesnt yet look comfortable running a PRO style offense

That's just it....he ran the spread offense @ Florida....throwing from shotgun almost exclusively.

It's running a pro style offense that is the obstacle he faces ...

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 08:59 AM
That's fine. However, I would argue that Orton isn't vastly better than Tebow. Tebow is the young gun, needs to play, needs to get better. Orton is what he is. He isn't right for this team, not at this point in time. By default, we should be going with Tebow. There is nothing to be gained with Orton. Do you really want Orton in a championship game, when the **** hits the fan? I don't. I want a guy that can make something out of nothing. Tebow is that guy.

We aren't going to sniff a championship game with Orton as our QB anyway.

jhns
09-02-2011, 09:00 AM
No matter how you try to spin the conversation, here's the bottom line. You said this:



My link proves that he was taking snaps down by two TDs with less than a minute to play in the SD game. I think that qualifies as losing by a lot. If you don't, then you don't. Whatever. I'll move on.

I'm trying to spin the conversation? This from a guy that can't follow the conversation as he feeds false information into it? You are such a douche.

Kaylore
09-02-2011, 09:21 AM
It would be better for the franchise for Tebow to play, utterly fall on his face, and be ready to draft a QB in 2011 than this outcome - Orton play, Tebow sit, team wins 6 games - and no one knows how to handle the QB position in 2012.

NO! Believe me, I had this idea myself. I figured throw him out there and see. But the problem I've realized is its assuming that a) You can tell if Tebow is good enough in just one season, B) That he and the team supporting him is ready enough now to evaluate him fairly, c) That there would be no residual consequences on the players for making the change, and d) that he isn't going to get any better sitting another year.

Montrose said he thinks in practice he gets worse and it just isn't true. Granted, game experience is second to none, but its not cut and dry. There are diminishing returns for putting raw QB's in earlier and earlier and ones with mechanics issues that Tebow has. He's a multi-year project and potentially writing him off in one year would be idiotic.

Why not let the Orton play his way out of the position. He's going to, either through bad play or injury, and then the players can't argue with the change. Why is the third option so hard for Tebownerites to deal with?

jhns
09-02-2011, 09:26 AM
NO! Believe me, I had this idea myself. I figured throw him out there and see. But the problem I've realized is its assuming that a) You can tell if Tebow is good enough in just one season, B) That he and the team supporting him is ready enough now to evaluate him fairly, c) That there would be no residual consequences on the players for making the change, and d) that he isn't going to get any better sitting another year.

Montrose said he thinks in practice he gets worse and it just isn't true. Granted, game experience is second to none, but its not cut and dry. There are diminishing returns for putting raw QB's in earlier and earlier and ones with mechanics issues that Tebow has. He's a multi-year project and potentially writing him off in one year would be idiotic.

Why not let the Orton play his way out of the position. He's going to, either through bad play or injury, and then the players can't argue with the change. Why is the third option so hard for Tebownerites to deal with?

Why do people care about the other players feelings so much? Do you girls not understand that this is football and they are being paid a ton? How would you even know what the players think anyways? We shouldn't want Tebow to start because you assume players will be upset? That reasoning actually sounds valid in your head?

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 09:29 AM
NO! Believe me, I had this idea myself. I figured throw him out there and see. But the problem I've realized is its assuming that a) You can tell if Tebow is good enough in just one season, B) That he and the team supporting him is ready enough now to evaluate him fairly, c) That there would be no residual consequences on the players for making the change, and d) that he isn't going to get any better sitting another year.

Montrose said he thinks in practice he gets worse and it just isn't true. Granted, game experience is second to none, but its not cut and dry. There are diminishing returns for putting raw QB's in earlier and earlier and ones with mechanics issues that Tebow has. He's a multi-year project and potentially writing him off in one year would be idiotic.

Why not let the Orton play his way out of the position. He's going to, either through bad play or injury, and then the players can't argue with the change. Why is the third option so hard for Tebownerites to deal with?

So I take it you don't think it's possible that EFX take a QB in the 1st round next draft?

I have to admit that that fear is a major factor in me wanting to get Tebow out there (that and barely being able to keep my lunch down at the sight of Orton). I just haven't gotten a solid feel that EFX are committed to developing Tebow, and I'm concerned we're going to spend another 1st rounder on a position we may already have an answer at. When looking at this team and all it's needs we can't afford a move like that.

Eldorado
09-02-2011, 09:33 AM
Tebow did not play in garbage time. He never took a single snap while losing by a lot in the fourth.



Score: DEN 23, OAK 39
Denver Broncos at 3:37 DEN OAK
1st and 10 at DEN 31 (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass short left to B.Lloyd to DEN 36 for 5 yards (S.Routt).
2nd and 5 at DEN 36 (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete short right to D.Graham.
3rd and 5 at DEN 36 (Shotgun) T.Tebow sacked at DEN 27 for -9 yards (M.Shaughnessy).
4th and 14 at DEN 27 B.Colquitt punts 44 yards to OAK 29, Center-L.Paxton. N.Miller to OAK 33 for 4 yards (B.Davis).

DrFate
09-02-2011, 09:34 AM
As always I appreciate your insight Kaylore

NO! Believe me, I had this idea myself. I figured throw him out there and see. But the problem I've realized is its assuming that a) You can tell if Tebow is good enough in just one season,

I would think 19 NFL starts would give the front office a good idea if the guy is awful and they need to pull the plug or if he is worth more time.


c) That there would be no residual consequences on the players for making the change

I accept this premise, but it ignores that fact that the team was all to willing to move Orton. The only thing that makes sense to me is if the team showed up and 50 guys went to Fox and said 'you play Tebow and we turn your car over' or something. The team was in the Tebow era until MIA balked at Orton's contract demands. If they were worried about 'losing the locker room' then why move Orton. And if Tebow 'isn't ready' that is egg on Fox/Elway's face that they were ready to trade Orton.


, and d) that he isn't going to get any better sitting another year.


If we saw mental breakdown after mental breakdown and Tebow had thrown 8 INTs in the preseason, I might understand the 'he needs more film time' or whatever. But we haven't seen that. He makes some bonehead plays, yes. But I just don't see how more time carrying the clipboard and listening to the play calls is going to improve that.

. There are diminishing returns for putting raw QB's in earlier and earlier and ones with mechanics issues that Tebow has. He's a multi-year project and

I look at a kid like Josh Freeman. He was supposed to be 'raw' and a 'long term project' when he drafted, and he's looking like a young superstar WAY ahead of schedule. I just think the front office is wrong on this.


Why is the third option so hard for Tebownerites to deal with?

I don't understand the 'Tebowner' comments either. I think there is a big error in thinking that ANY of these Maners want to see Tebow for Tebow's sake. They just don't want to see another season wasted on Orton. :)

I want to see Tebow. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's more likely he fails than succeeds. I did a literal facepalm when he was drafted. But we all know who Orton is and what he brings. And if this team has ZERO QBotF candidates on the roster, I think they need to know that. Personally, I don't want to see Orton win 6 games, him walk, Tebow win 4 games in 2012 and look terrible, and then still be unsettled going forward.

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 09:36 AM
Score: DEN 23, OAK 39
Denver Broncos at 3:37 DEN OAK
1st and 10 at DEN 31 (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass short left to B.Lloyd to DEN 36 for 5 yards (S.Routt).
2nd and 5 at DEN 36 (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete short right to D.Graham.
3rd and 5 at DEN 36 (Shotgun) T.Tebow sacked at DEN 27 for -9 yards (M.Shaughnessy).
4th and 14 at DEN 27 B.Colquitt punts 44 yards to OAK 29, Center-L.Paxton. N.Miller to OAK 33 for 4 yards (B.Davis).

If you can get him to acknowledge this post at all, I'm sure he'll claim "a lot" is 17 pts or more.

DrFate
09-02-2011, 09:37 AM
So I take it you don't think it's possible that EFX take a QB in the 1st round next draft?

I have to admit that that fear is a major factor in me wanting to get Tebow out there (that and barely being able to keep my lunch down at the sight of Orton). I just haven't gotten a solid feel that EFX are committed to developing Tebow, and I'm concerned we're going to spend another 1st rounder on a position we may already have an answer at. When looking at this team and all it's needs we can't afford a move like that.

I think this sums it up nicely. I'm on record, I think they are already planning on taking a QB in 2012. I can't explain the big bonus given to Tebow last week, however.

jhns
09-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Score: DEN 23, OAK 39
Denver Broncos at 3:37 DEN OAK
1st and 10 at DEN 31 (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass short left to B.Lloyd to DEN 36 for 5 yards (S.Routt).
2nd and 5 at DEN 36 (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete short right to D.Graham.
3rd and 5 at DEN 36 (Shotgun) T.Tebow sacked at DEN 27 for -9 yards (M.Shaughnessy).
4th and 14 at DEN 27 B.Colquitt punts 44 yards to OAK 29, Center-L.Paxton. N.Miller to OAK 33 for 4 yards (B.Davis).

Well, that sure proves the point. Tebow put up tons of stats in garbage time!

A 13 point lead is not garbage time for a QB that had a 21 point comeback. Being within two scores is still being in the game.

jhns
09-02-2011, 09:40 AM
If you can get him to acknowledge this post at all, I'm sure he'll claim "a lot" is 17 pts or more.

Or I could just post some wrong stats and claim I am right...

DrFate
09-02-2011, 09:41 AM
My other thought is to look at Cam Newton. If they wanted to sit him since he didn't even seem to understand basic NFL offensive terminology (based on his interview with Gruden), I'd understand THAT.

But I can't believe that if Tebow didn't get something out of last year's clipboard work, he's going to get something this year.

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 09:41 AM
Or I could just post some wrong stats and claim I am right...

Why should today be any different?

jhns
09-02-2011, 09:43 AM
Why should today be any different?

It isn't. You continue to be the same poster.

Mile High Mojoe
09-02-2011, 09:45 AM
I think a lot of people who would prefer him start don't actually think he's the best QB on the roster so much as they want to see what he's got (seeing as he's the QB on our roster who is contracted beyond this season).

Personally I think the issue is that many people (and I've gotten the impression that you are one of them) seem to think that passing is all a QB really needs to be good at. And as far as that goes, I think Orton is a better pure passer right now. The problem is that Tebow is superior in pretty much every other way, and to me that tips the scales in his favor. You may disagree with me (and others who share the same viewpoint), but I really don't understand how you could claim my view is "just stupid".


^5

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 09:45 AM
My other thought is to look at Cam Newton. If they wanted to sit him since he didn't even seem to understand basic NFL offensive terminology (based on his interview with Gruden), I'd understand THAT.

But I can't believe that if Tebow didn't get something out of last year's clipboard work, he's going to get something this year.

It's becoming more and more obvious that Tebow > Newton in terms of readiness for the NFL coming out of college. It baffles me that so many thought Tebow was a reach at the 25th overall pick but seem to be okay with Newton at #1.

DrFate
09-02-2011, 09:48 AM
It's becoming more and more obvious that Tebow > Newton in terms of readiness for the NFL coming out of college. It baffles me that so many thought Tebow was a reach at the 25th overall pick but seem to be okay with Newton at #1.

I think there is some media bias against the guy because of his personality/beliefs.

But I think the wonky throwing motion gets a lot of the attention. But for whatever reason the motion of David Carr got a pass, the motion of Byron Leftwich or Phillip Rivers got a pass, etc. Newton doesn't throw a really pretty ball, and I cringe watching Pryor try to throw...

vonqkilla
09-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Tebow came alive once put in the gun. Gee, did any other Bronco qb succeed out of a largely shotgun driven offense with a conservative HC?

Eldorado
09-02-2011, 09:58 AM
Well, that sure proves the point. Tebow put up tons of stats in garbage time!

A 13 point lead is not garbage time for a QB that had a 21 point comeback. Being within two scores is still being in the game.

16. And that was garbage time.

yerner
09-02-2011, 10:04 AM
Whatever, they all still suck. Can't wait till Elway drafts a QB next year.

errand
09-02-2011, 10:11 AM
That's a laughable retort. "A seven year QBs best 3, cherry-picked,games would be better than a rookie's first 3 starts."

Try to find a 3 game stretch where Orton put up more than 21 points. Go.

How many times has Tebow led us to 30 or more?

errand
09-02-2011, 10:15 AM
What's misleading about Orton's stats? He's good until it matters most. That's well represented by the stats.

Orton vs opposing starters scored 34 points.

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 10:17 AM
How many times has Tebow led us to 30 or more?

None. Would you rather score 21+ points every game or go 34, 6, 13, 42, 10, 10?

rbackfactory80
09-02-2011, 10:29 AM
The only reasonable argument to start Orton is the vets on the team.

I remember a thread where posters on here where calling Orton a top 10 QB last year. Guess what? They are the same posters clinging to his balls this year.

After we finish the season with 7 wins, Orton will have molested us again. He will rob us of a chance to grab Luck and we will have an unknown in Tebow who isn't given a chance because the FO thinks a QB should look a certain way. He will lose out on a battle with Brady Quinn because Fox doesn't like his mechanics in shorts and a training bra.

jhns
09-02-2011, 10:31 AM
16. And that was garbage time.

Fine, it was garbage time. That still doesn't do much for the theory that he racked up stats in garbage time.

teknic
09-02-2011, 10:36 AM
You should add in that new Total QB Rating stat from ESPN.

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 10:41 AM
The only reasonable argument to start Orton is the vets on the team.


I think thats true. It's also reasonable to let Orton take the fall early and erase unreasonable expectations for this team to make a SB run.

Whatever the rationale, this season will be a total failure if Tebow doesn't get 10+ starts.

errand
09-02-2011, 10:41 AM
What is your argument? Because Orton played like **** last year (and not well the year before). 3-10 is 3-10. 5-17 is 5-17.

3-10 is 3-10...but Orton was 8-7 as our starter in '09...so his broncos record is an overall 11-17

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 10:42 AM
so his broncos record is an overall 11-17

Wow, what was I thinking by doubting him? That is truly impressive.

Eldorado
09-02-2011, 10:43 AM
Fine, it was garbage time. That still doesn't do much for the theory that he racked up stats in garbage time.

pwned.

teknic
09-02-2011, 10:44 AM
3-10 is 3-10...but Orton was 8-7 as our starter in '09...so his broncos record is an overall 11-17

http://www.5minutesforspecialneeds.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lombardi_trophy3.jpg

jhns
09-02-2011, 10:45 AM
pwned.

Poor thing.

errand
09-02-2011, 10:51 AM
Not that I want to get into this little feud - but I thought that's what they called 'a comeback'. Get it under one score, get an onside kick, try to win the game?

making the score seem respectable is moral victory....a comeback is a win.....

errand
09-02-2011, 10:59 AM
Nope. I don't see how your retarded spin shows anything. A three game sample, out of three games, is far different than cherry picking three games out of 40... If you find that it is common for a QB to perform worse after their first few games, maybe you would have an argument. Should I show you Ortons first three games? Tebow outplayed Ortons rookie year by a lot more than he outplayed Ortons seventh...

Sure....bring up Orton's rookie year....he went 10-5 as starter and bears won division.....and since the end results are all that matter....

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 10:59 AM
making the score seem respectable is moral victory....a comeback is a win.....What do we call Orton vs. the Rams?

errand
09-02-2011, 11:00 AM
What do we call Orton vs. the Rams?

Moral victory......same with Tebow vs chargers

errand
09-02-2011, 11:05 AM
I think thats true. It's also reasonable to let Orton take the fall early and erase unreasonable expectations for this team to make a SB run.

Whatever the rationale, this season will be a total failure if Tebow doesn't get 10+ starts.

Even if we make playoffs?

****ing hero worshipers

errand
09-02-2011, 11:14 AM
Why do people care about the other players feelings so much? Do you girls not understand that this is football and they are being paid a ton? How would you even know what the players think anyways? We shouldn't want Tebow to start because you assume players will be upset? That reasoning actually sounds valid in your head?

No worse than you bitching that broncos should start Tebow due to fans feelings....

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 11:18 AM
Even if we make playoffs?

****ing hero worshipers
It has nothing to do with hero worship, and everything to do with realistic expectations. Orton has proven time and again he can only go where a team carries him. This team was 4-12 last year.

You can sputter about the playoffs all you want, but it doesn't erase the fact that we were the 2nd worst team in the league last year.

IMO, the only way we make the playoffs is with dynamic, not safe, QB play. Tebow is the only guy with that potential.

errand
09-02-2011, 11:21 AM
None. Would you rather score 21+ points every game or go 34, 6, 13, 42, 10, 10?

Well ....when your defense is surrendering about 4 tds a game does it really matter?

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 11:21 AM
Well ....when your defense is surrendering about 4 tds a game does it really matter?Yes.

Sir_Robin
09-02-2011, 11:32 AM
Ride out Orton until he goes down and then what Tebow has at that point.

Why? What is gained by waiting? The end results, from last season and this preseason, are that these two are statistically the same. So what exactly is gained by going with Orton? So far the only answer I can recall given to this question is: better mechanics and checking his reads. Great! Then why doesn't that produce significantly better results?

Starting him now is stupid because he's not ready, it wouldn't let you "see what he's got" because he doesn't have anything yet

Again, here's a guy who "doesn't have anything yet" but can produce as well as the experienced, more polished vet.

I don't want to see what he's got - I know what he's got. He has entertainment value. He brings excitement to the position. I want to be entertained dammit! :)

errand
09-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Fine, it was garbage time. That still doesn't do much for the theory that he racked up stats in garbage time.

So you're wanting us to put the franchise in the hands of a QB that can't put up good numbers even in garbage time?

jhns
09-02-2011, 11:39 AM
No worse than you b****ing that broncos should start Tebow due to fans feelings....

I have never said we should start Tebow because of what fans feel, or even think. Do you enjoy proving what a moron you are, every day?

jhns
09-02-2011, 11:40 AM
So you're wanting us to put the franchise in the hands of a QB that can't put up good numbers even in garbage time?

Yup. Especially when his non garbage time numbers are so much better than the competitions...

jhns
09-02-2011, 11:41 AM
Well ....when your defense is surrendering about 4 tds a game does it really matter?

LOL

Who cares if he is better, we don't want offense here!

errand
09-02-2011, 11:42 AM
Wow, what was I thinking by doubting him? That is truly impressive.

Well since you're so high on 1-2....why wouldn't you be?

Afterall 33% < 39% right?

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 11:42 AM
So you're wanting us to put the franchise in the hands of a QB that can't put up good numbers even in garbage time?

No, we're wanting to put the franchise in the hands of the QB who managed to score almost a TD/game more than the current starter.

dsmoot
09-02-2011, 11:42 AM
My take on that is this:

Tebow hasn't looked good. I'm a Tebow guy, but after watching the preseason I didn't think he looked great. I am shocked to read the stats in this thread, to be honest. Just from an eye test, I was worried about him. Maybe my expectations were unreasonable, I don't know. These stats leave me very pleasantly surprised.

I too am a Tebow guy and I agree he hasn't looked good doing the things he needs to. He needs to be more patient in the pocket and work his progressions. He needs to realize that he can't do what he frequently did in college in the pros - the guys are much faster (pull the ball down and take off). He has to pick his spots. He has to learn to play behind the center to be able to make the running game more effective. There will be plenty of opportunities in the shotgun. Orton is obviously better in the pocket but Tebow has to be better than he has been to win the job.

Orton will prove his effectiveness one way or the other as the season wears on. Tim has to continue his progress and close the gap on the conventional QB skills with Orton. I too am pleased that the stats stand out as they do but Tebow must pass the eye test and be capable of sustaining drives from the pocket.

The one thing that I am slightly disappointed with to date is his effectiveness outside of the pocket going downfield with the ball. He is great with his legs but the ability to make teams pay with his arm is what he needs to improve on. Elway would strike fear into defensive coordinators anytime he got outside of the tackles and it was not just his running ability. Vance and Shannon were fantastic on moving to the open areas on a broken play and Elway was equally good in finding them. Frankly, this was the major strength in Plummer's game. His inability to effectively operate from the pocket is what spelled his doom in Denver.

I don't know if anyone has heard Tebow specifically mention those areas of his game which must be improved.

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 11:44 AM
Well since you're so high on 1-2....why wouldn't you be?

Afterall 33% < 39% right?

Tebow's win pct is better than Orton's if you look at their performance with the same team. I also think it's realistic to expect Tebow will improve. I don't think it's realistic to expect Orton to get better.

jhns
09-02-2011, 11:45 AM
No, we're wanting to put the franchise in the hands of the QB who managed to score almost a TD/game more than the current starter.

No point in trying to be rational with Orton fans. Most, like this guy, were huge McDaniels supporters. This alone proves what theyvknow about the sport.

errand
09-02-2011, 11:45 AM
It has nothing to do with hero worship, and everything to do with realistic expectations. Orton has proven time and again he can only go where a team carries him. This team was 4-12 last year.

You can sputter about the playoffs all you want, but it doesn't erase the fact that we were the 2nd worst team in the league last year.

IMO, the only way we make the playoffs is with dynamic, not safe, QB play. Tebow is the only guy with that potential.

Good defense ..... good running game...and winnng turnover battle with smarter Qbing will get us there....

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 11:49 AM
Good defense ..... good running game...and winnng turnover battle with smarter Qbing will get us there....

You're only reiterating my point that Orton is only going to get a team as far as they carry him. He's shown for his entire career that he can only go as far as the talent around him.

Tebow's already been more productive when playing with the same players, and he was the only QB in pre-season to play above the level of his supporting cast.

Orton does not have that ability.

errand
09-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Tebow's win pct is better than Orton's if you look at their performance with the same team. I also think it's realistic to expect Tebow will improve. I don't think it's realistic to expect Orton to get better.

Both played the raiders and chargers.....both lost to both teams....so how is Tebow's 0% better than Orton's 0%?

Beantown Bronco
09-02-2011, 12:00 PM
Basing an argument on the winning percentage of a QB who has only started three games has to be one of the more retarded things I've ever seen.

jhns
09-02-2011, 12:01 PM
Both played the raiders and chargers.....both lost to both teams....so how is Tebow's 0% better than Orton's 0%?

How is the better offense better for the team? Simpke, it means we don't have to waste as many resources on it as we build the defense. Is that a real question?

Play2win
09-02-2011, 12:03 PM
I will say this, there are opportunities that are immediately present once Orton is in. He can and will throw to anyone and any route.

Put anyone else in, and the playbook goes into quirks mode.

errand
09-02-2011, 12:03 PM
Yes.

You're right....it does matter...

Given your numbers with our defense giving 28 points a game.....we'd have won 2 of the 6 games...we'd lose all 6 your way......

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 12:06 PM
Both played the raiders and chargers.....both lost to both teams....so how is Tebow's 0% better than Orton's 0%?

Umm...because they both played teams other than the Raiders and Chargers.

errand
09-02-2011, 12:08 PM
You're only reiterating my point that Orton is only going to get a team as far as they carry him. He's shown for his entire career that he can only go as far as the talent around him.

Tebow's already been more productive when playing with the same players, and he was the only QB in pre-season to play above the level of his supporting cast.

Orton does not have that ability.

Orton will keep turnovers low....and rarely throws to the wrong man....and makes quicker decisions

"football is a game of errors ....whoever makes the fewest errors usually wins" ---Paul Brown

errand
09-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Umm...because they both played teams other than the Raiders and Chargers.

Tebow started 3 games...texans..raiders and chargers.

jhns
09-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Scoring less points is a good thing in football!

Signed,

Orton fan and guy that has never heard of any sport but golf.

zdoor
09-02-2011, 12:12 PM
For as RAW as Tebow has looked this preseason I think comparing his 4 series last nights to Orton's first 4 series against the Seahawks is a fair assessment of their performance to date. And, its not that far off. To me, one has an excuse for being raw, the other is just, well, average at best. I definitely don't see the huge gap everyone claims. Yeah Tebow looks RAW, yeah he's slower reading defenses and yes he can't get through his progressions as fast as Orton. He's also a 2nd year guy compared to a 7th year guy. Orton has earned the starting job to BEGIN the season and he's also earned, based on his more than abysmal record as the Broncos QB the right to get yanked at the first sign of fetal-ing. While Tebow may or may not be our future QB, Orton is a stop gap and one I'll never forgive for the absolute throttling we took from our most hated rival while he captained the ship.

Tebow has had no OTA's and no off season with coaches. He's raw as hell and sometimes downright FUGLY. But, he's improving and there is no quit in him at all. Orton on the other hand... Tebow is obviously far more comfortable in the gun, as evidenced last night on his last drive and it is not all that shocking. He's improving under center but still has a long way to go, and he may or may not ever get there. But, I'll put money on Tebow playing before the year is out. Any takers?

For any who thought or still think Quinn should be #2, after what I've watched in games, no @#$%in way... Carry on...

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 12:22 PM
Some you guys are like a hamster stuck in his wheel. Keep on trucking something might change lol.

Cito Pelon
09-02-2011, 12:23 PM
One thing I like about Tebow is he looks to throw the ball long, and completes those long passes well. His velocity, trajectory and accuracy with the long passes is a thing of beauty. Dude doesn't miss often from what I've seen. Tebow has to work on some details, but I have no problem at all with his long ball.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 12:28 PM
All I know is that this bunch of bull**** feuding between who is the best to start is getting old as hell. I dont know about you, but regardless who starts, which is going to be Orton, for the time being, we are ALL Bronco fans and the fact that we're STILL fighting over this monkey **** is insane. Take it for what it is, cheer for the Broncos period and just, as our wonderful friend Mock (RIP) used to say STFU! Go mufuggin BRONCOS!!!

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 12:42 PM
All I know is that this bunch of bull**** feuding between who is the best to start is getting old as hell. I dont know about you, but regardless who starts, which is going to be Orton, for the time being, we are ALL Bronco fans and the fact that we're STILL fighting over this monkey **** is insane. Take it for what it is, cheer for the Broncos period and just, as our wonderful friend Mock (RIP) used to say STFU! Go mufuggin BRONCOS!!!

I hate when fans pick players over the team.

jhns
09-02-2011, 12:43 PM
I hate when fans pick players over the team.

What? That doesn't make any sense.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 12:43 PM
I hate when fans pick players over the team.

PRECISELY! Deal with it, we're not the coaches, nor do we have the least bit of influence of who plays. So cheer for the team or go be a Raider fan

jhns
09-02-2011, 12:46 PM
PRECISELY! Deal with it, we're not the coaches, nor do we have the least bit of influence of who plays. So cheer for the team or go be a Raider fan

Yeah! Stop giving your opinions on the message board!

Pretty much everyone that argues for Tebow has said they like Fox, what Fox is doing, and are excited for the season. You are acting like a little girl...

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 12:49 PM
Yeah! Stop giving your opinions on the message board!

Pretty much everyone that argues for Tebow has said they like Fox, what Fox is doing, and are excited for the season. You are acting like a little girl...

I think you have given your ****ing opinion on the matter. Maybe 15 more times saying the same thing might change things.

Cito Pelon
09-02-2011, 12:50 PM
All I know is that this bunch of bull**** feuding between who is the best to start is getting old as hell. I dont know about you, but regardless who starts, which is going to be Orton, for the time being, we are ALL Bronco fans and the fact that we're STILL fighting over this monkey **** is insane. Take it for what it is, cheer for the Broncos period and just, as our wonderful friend Mock (RIP) used to say STFU! Go mufuggin BRONCOS!!!

It's not all that bad for internecine warfare, BMF. It's just that there are these small cadres at the far wings that go at it and tend to get all the attention because of their outrageous and inflammatory statements. You got sucked into it, right?

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 12:51 PM
Yeah! Stop giving your opinions on the message board!

Pretty much everyone that argues for Tebow has said they like Fox, what Fox is doing, and are excited for the season. You are acting like a little girl...

No, I am sick of the bull**** that's going on here. You're opinions are good, but they are just that, YOUR opinions. You cry the same endless diatribe every single thread that has to do with anything related to Tebow and Orton. I can cut and paste the same **** 1000 times over and reiterate your sentiments. Either get a job on the Broncos brain trust or be like the other 95% of the fans and go with it.

jhns
09-02-2011, 12:52 PM
I think you have given your ****ing opinion on the matter. Maybe 15 more times saying the same thing might change things.

Why cry about it? You could easily not read the threads that upset you.

Please explain the picking a player over the team thing though. I really am interested in what you are trying to say with that.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 12:52 PM
It's not all that bad for internecine warfare, BMF. It's just that there are these small cadres at the far wings that go at it and tend to get all the attention because of their outrageous and inflammatory statements. You got sucked into it, right?

I gave my thoughts once or twice and now, I just want the damn season to start so I can go to my games, watch the others, but most of all, cheer for the ****ing Broncos.

jhns
09-02-2011, 12:56 PM
No, I am sick of the bull**** that's going on here. You're opinions are good, but they are just that, YOUR opinions. You cry the same endless diatribe every single thread that has to do with anything related to Tebow and Orton. I can cut and paste the same **** 1000 times over and reiterate your sentiments. Either get a job on the Broncos brain trust or be like the other 95% of the fans and go with it.

Why do you read it then? If you don't, why do you cry about it? We all know that our opinions don't change anything. Some still like arguing them, or they wouldn't. This is a message board though. This is the place for this kind of thing. There will be new discussions as soon as the season starts.

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 12:57 PM
Why cry about it? You could easily not read the threads that upset you.

Please explain the picking a player over the team thing though. I really am interested in what you are trying to say with that.

Its in every ****ing thread.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 12:58 PM
Why do you read it then? If you don't, why do you cry about it? We all know that our opinions don't change anything. Some still like arguing them, or they wouldn't. This is a message board though. This is the place for this kind of thing. There will be new discussions as soon as the season starts.

How can i not?! It's on 98% of the ****ing threads here! If I want to read anything else, I have to go to the political thread, and that's becoming a viable option!

Cito Pelon
09-02-2011, 12:58 PM
I gave my thoughts once or twice and now, I just want the damn season to start so I can go to my games, watch the others, but most of all, cheer for the ****ing Broncos.

You gotta wear a jersey, man, make a statement. /sarcasm

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:00 PM
You gotta wear a jersey, man, make a statement. /sarcasm

I have four, a #7, a #24, a #49 (Dennis Smith), and a #7 (yes, two)

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:01 PM
Its in every ****ing thread.

You are in a thread that is only about QBs. This discussion is not in every thread. You are being your typical drama queen self right now.

People obviously want to argue about it as there are multiple threads about it. You, and a few others, think you should dictate what others discuss because you enjoy pissing in other peoples Cheerios...

"I am king of the mother f'ing internet! You will all discuss what I like, when I tell you that you can discuss it!"

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:02 PM
How can i not?! It's on 98% of the ****ing threads here! If I want to read anything else, I have to go to the political thread, and that's becoming a viable option!

See my last post. It is how I would reply to this one.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:03 PM
"I am king of the mother f'ing internet! You will all discuss what I like (tebow and his holiness), when I tell you that you can discuss it!"

fixed it for you

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:04 PM
fixed it for you

King of the internets.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:09 PM
King of the internets.

King of redundancy.

feel better?

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:12 PM
King of redundancy.

feel better?

Guess what? I just looked at the main page and this discussion is in only a few threads. Pretty far from thr drama queen version of every thread.

King of the internets says every thread though...

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:14 PM
Guess what? I just looked at the main page and this discussion is in only a few threads. Pretty far from thr drama queen version of every thread.

King of the internets says every thread though...

Really dude??? That's where you're going. Search over the past three weeks, including about 10 days ago when virtually every thread was the same tired bull****. And if you're going to quote me, quote me correctly, I said 98%, not all.

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:19 PM
Really dude??? That's where you're going. Search over the past three weeks, including about 10 days ago when virtually every thread was the same tired bull****. And if you're going to quote me, quote me correctly, I said 98%, not all.

LOL

Sorry, you did say 98%, even though it is more like 8%.

What does ten days ago have to do with now? Even then, there were only like three active threads until another king of the internets started crying about Tebow threads. That king of the internets then bumped 20 old Tebow threads to "fix" the problem...

If you don't like what is being discussed, don't join in. Pretty simple.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:22 PM
LOL

Sorry, you did say 98%, even though it is more like 8%.

What does ten days ago have to do with now? Even then, there were only like three active threads until another king of the internets started crying about Tebow threads. That king of the internets then bumped 20 old Tebow threads to "fix" the problem...

If you don't like what is being discussed, don't join in. Pretty simple.

Meaning that the endless, redundant, ridiculous arguments have been carrying on for weeks upon end. It's time to quit griping about it, accept the fact that Orton is the QB, and cheer for the team.

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:30 PM
Meaning that the endless, redundant, ridiculous arguments have been carrying on for weeks upon end. It's time to quit griping about it, accept the fact that Orton is the QB, and cheer for the team.

This argument has been going since Tebow started those three games. This is what happens in the offseason, and until real games are played. You will not stop this from being argued at least twenty more times before the Turds game. It's time to accept the fact that you aren't actually the king of the internet.

People are still cheering for the team. This won't stop people from having opinions. The two are not mutually exclusive. If you don't think people should think for themselves, I'm not sure the internet is the place for you.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:48 PM
This argument has been going since Tebow started those three games. This is what happens in the offseason, and until real games are played. You will not stop this from being argued at least twenty more times before the Turds game. It's time to accept the fact that you aren't actually the king of the internet.

People are still cheering for the team. This won't stop people from having opinions. The two are not mutually exclusive. If you don't think people should think for themselves, I'm not sure the internet is the place for you.

I know when it has been going on since, but it seems to haver grown rabid this preseason, and yes, I was on the Tebow side. But now, we all have the outcome and we all know who's going to be in there, so instead of BASHING the starting QB and pointing out his faults and ****ty games (time and time again) bite the bullet and accept it for fact.

I have never claimed to be "king of the internet" as ridiculous as that sounds. I am merely pointing out the fact that it gets amazingly old reading the same five argument points on both sides. I realize I dont have to read it, but when it's involved in threads I have other interest in, it gets old sifting through the monkey **** to get to the main point.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 01:50 PM
I know when it has been going on since, but it seems to haver grown rabid this preseason, and yes, I was on the Tebow side. But now, we all have the outcome and we all know who's going to be in there, so instead of BASHING the starting QB and pointing out his faults and ****ty games (time and time again) bite the bullet and accept it for fact.

I have never claimed to be "king of the internet" as ridiculous as that sounds. I am merely pointing out the fact that it gets amazingly old reading the same five argument points on both sides. I realize I dont have to read it, but when it's involved in threads I have other interest in, it gets old sifting through the monkey **** to get to the main point.

Umm you are posting in a thread about our three QBs' stats. Exactly what did you expect? A conversation about our DT depth?

Eldorado
09-02-2011, 01:52 PM
I know when it has been going on since, but it seems to haver grown rabid this preseason, and yes, I was on the Tebow side. But now, we all have the outcome and we all know who's going to be in there, so instead of BASHING the starting QB and pointing out his faults and ****ty games (time and time again) bite the bullet and accept it for fact.

I have never claimed to be "king of the internet" as ridiculous as that sounds. I am merely pointing out the fact that it gets amazingly old reading the same five argument points on both sides. I realize I dont have to read it, but when it's involved in threads I have other interest in, it gets old sifting through the monkey **** to get to the main point.

Ahhh, there is your problem. This idiot has no point. :pimp:

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:54 PM
Umm you are posting in a thread about our three QBs' stats. Exactly what did you expect? A conversation about our DT depth?

I am not speaking of this thread in general, again, it's in any thread that has any inkling of the starting roster. As for this one, I was looking to see the comparison between Quinn and Tebow, considering ORTON HAS ALREADY BEEN NAMED THE STARTER AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT...

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:55 PM
Ahhh, there is your problem. This idiot has no point. :pimp:

Says the chick that has never had a point to any of her posts. The latest is a great example...

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 01:56 PM
Says the chick that has never had a point to any of her posts. The latest is a great example...

This is epic coming from you.

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:56 PM
I am not speaking of this thread in general, again, it's in any thread that has any inkling of the starting roster. As for this one, I was looking to see the comparison between Quinn and Tebow, considering ORTON HAS ALREADY BEEN NAMED THE STARTER AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT...

So, does being king of the internet have many perks? There is a lot of pornthat you rule over...

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 01:57 PM
So, does being king of the internet have many perks? There is a lot of pornthat you rule over...

Now you're resorting to personal attacks... hmm, alright then...

errand
09-02-2011, 01:58 PM
Scoring less points is a good thing in football!

Signed,

Orton fan and guy that has never heard of any sport but golf.

Scoring points is good........so is keeping opposing teams under 20...

You think Tebow led broncos would be able to score 4 tds or more a game?

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:58 PM
This is epic coming from you.

Says the guy that just cries all the time. When was the last time you broke down some stats or gave a detailed analysis of anything?

Maybe you would give us something else to discuss if you spent your time doing anything other than whining...

jhns
09-02-2011, 01:59 PM
Now you're resorting to personal attacks... hmm, alright then...

Now?

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Says the guy that just cries all the time. When was the last time you broke down some stats or gave a detailed analysis of anything?

Maybe you would give us something else to discuss if you spent your time doing anything other than whining...

Coach Fox said Orton was the starter. I don't need to break stats down on a message board in hoping that might change his mind. :thumbsup:

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Now?

Well, you had somewhat shown an ounce of self control in this discussion, however I see that you M.O. is shining through.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 02:02 PM
I am not speaking of this thread in general, again, it's in any thread that has any inkling of the starting roster. As for this one, I was looking to see the comparison between Quinn and Tebow, considering ORTON HAS ALREADY BEEN NAMED THE STARTER AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT...

Orton is in the title of the thread. I think it's safe to assume all the QBs are going to be getting compared looking at the title of the thread.

Kind of starting to think jhns has a point about you wanting to control what other people discuss, even in threads that are clearly geared towards discussing the topic you don't want to read about anymore. I'm thinking you should probably just deal with it.

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Scoring points is good........so is keeping opposing teams under 20...

You think Tebow led broncos would be able to score 4 tds or more a game?

So you are saying Orton holds teams under 20 or Orton scores four TDs a game? I wouod think Tebows more productive offense, especially in the run game, would help a defense a lot more than Ortons style of play. There are two great examples of this being true last season...

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:04 PM
Coach Fox said Orton was the starter. I don't need to break stats down on a message board in hoping that might change his mind. :thumbsup:

I wasn't talking about just this discussion homegirl..

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 02:05 PM
Coach Fox said Orton was the starter. I don't need to break stats down on a message board in hoping that might change his mind. :thumbsup:

Is that why we discuss things on these boards? To try to effect actual change on the team? Here I was thinking I was simply blowing off some steam...

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 02:05 PM
I wasn't talking about just this discussion homegirl..

Maybe I should just talk about McD and how he tossed Cutler away. Would that make you feel better?

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:06 PM
Well, you had somewhat shown an ounce of self control in this discussion, however I see that you M.O. is shining through.

Let me break this down for you. If you are rational, and not telling others what to do on a forum you clearly have no control over, I have no problem being nice and discussing something. You start acting like a jackass and it just makes me want to toy with you and insult you. Sorry.

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 02:07 PM
Is that why we discuss things on these boards? To try to effect actual change on the team? Here I was thinking I was simply blowing off some steam...

It used to be a place to get inside info and chat with good fans. Then you guys showed up and needed to bitch.

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:08 PM
Is that why we discuss things on these boards? To try to effect actual change on the team? Here I was thinking I was simply blowing off some steam...

Common sense is hard for some to grasp.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 02:09 PM
It used to be a place to get inside info and chat with good fans. Then you guys showed up and needed to b****.

Are you one of the "good fans"? If so I'm not thinking we're missing much...

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:10 PM
Maybe I should just talk about McD and how he tossed Cutler away. Would that make you feel better?

I don't care what you discuss. This response leads me to believe you can't follow a simple conversation. No wonder you have such a problem with message boards.

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 02:11 PM
Are you one of the "good fans"? If so I'm not thinking we're missing much...

Says the dude that didn't know that we cut a guy because he was too busy crying about Orton starting over Tebow. Threads like that get pushed down because we need more threads about Tebow vs Orton.

errand
09-02-2011, 02:12 PM
One thing I like about Tebow is he looks to throw the ball long, and completes those long passes well. His velocity, trajectory and accuracy with the long passes is a thing of beauty. Dude doesn't miss often from what I've seen. Tebow has to work on some details, but I have no problem at all with his long ball.

He does throw a nice long ball..... he should get better at throwing short to intermediate ones as well...but I fear he won't be good at it for another season or two.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 02:13 PM
Let me break this down for you. If you are rational, and not telling others what to do on a forum you clearly have no control over, I have no problem being nice and discussing something. You start acting like a jackass and it just makes me want to toy with you and insult you. Sorry.

Hi pot, meet kettle

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:15 PM
Says the dude that didn't know that we cut a guy because he was too busy crying about Orton starting over Tebow. Threads like that get pushed down because we need more threads about Tebow vs Orton.

There are two threads on the front page discussing this. Really, there is only one now that you have derailed this one. It must be so hard to see the other threads as you wade through the huge river of two threads discussing this.

errand
09-02-2011, 02:15 PM
What? That doesn't make any sense.

Clowns like you that engage in hero worship..... you would rather see the broncos lose with tebow than win a game with any other quarterback

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:16 PM
Hi pot, meet kettle

King of the internets strikes again!

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:17 PM
Clowns like you that engage in hero worship..... you would rather see the broncos lose with tebow than win a game with any other quarterback

Wtf? That is a pretty retarded post.

BMF Bronco
09-02-2011, 02:20 PM
King of the internets strikes again!

You're idiocy exceeds reason.

DBroncos4life
09-02-2011, 02:20 PM
There are two threads on the front page discussing this. Really, there is only one now that you have derailed this one. It must be so hard to see the other threads as you wade through the huge river of two threads discussing this.

Im up to date with players being cut. Its not that hard to these days. As for me derailing a thread. Again thats epic coming from your punk ass.

errand
09-02-2011, 02:22 PM
So you are saying Orton holds teams under 20 or Orton scores four TDs a game? I wouod think Tebows more productive offense, especially in the run game, would help a defense a lot more than Ortons style of play. There are two great examples of this being true last season...

I never said that Orton would lead us to 28 points per game..... however since 28 points per game is what our defense allowed we would have to average scoring 29 or 30 points per game to win it. So my question to you is do you believe that the broncos with tim tebow as our quarterback could average 4 touchdowns per game this season?

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:25 PM
You're idiocy exceeds reason.

Your reason exceeds idiocy.

errand
09-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Wtf? That is a pretty retarded post.

It means you're a tim tebow fan...... first and foremost. If the broncos start kyle orton you will silently rejoice at every bad pass or loss because in your mind every bad thing that happens to the broncos with Orton as our quarterback puts tim tebow 1 step closer to the starting job. Don't worry we won't win every game so you have your moments of cheering

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:28 PM
I never said that Orton would lead us to 28 points per game..... however since 28 points per game is what our defense allowed we would have to average scoring 29 or 30 points per game to win it. So my question to you is do you believe that the broncos with tim tebow as our quarterback could average 4 touchdowns per game this season?

So you think Fox is going to field a defense that gives up 28 per game? Why do you hate Elway and Fox so much?

No, I do not think we have a QB on the roster that would average 28 per game. I am not getting what you are trying to say. Offense isn't important? Scoring points doesn't matter?

jhns
09-02-2011, 02:31 PM
It means you're a tim tebow fan...... first and foremost. If the broncos start kyle orton you will silently rejoice at every bad pass or loss because in your mind every bad thing that happens to the broncos with Orton as our quarterback puts tim tebow 1 step closer to the starting job. Don't worry we won't win every game so you have your moments of cheering

Ahh, the children pulling the fan card. I'm sure you are the bestest fan ever!

I don't like any of this teams QBs. I still wish we had Cutler. Your theory is retarded and doesn't even make a little bit of sense.

OABB
09-02-2011, 02:59 PM
It means you're a tim tebow fan...... first and foremost. If the broncos start kyle orton you will silently rejoice at every bad pass or loss because in your mind every bad thing that happens to the broncos with Orton as our quarterback puts tim tebow 1 step closer to the starting job. Don't worry we won't win every game so you have your moments of cheering

Im a broncos fan. thats IS why I boo Orton.

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 02:59 PM
Im up to date with players being cut. Its not that hard to these days. As for me derailing a thread. Again thats epic coming from your punk ass.

Yeah you're one of the "good fans". Hilarious!

Archer81
09-02-2011, 03:08 PM
Ahh, the children pulling the fan card. I'm sure you are the bestest fan ever!

I don't like any of this teams QBs. I still wish we had Cutler. Your theory is retarded and doesn't even make a little bit of sense.


:spit:

Oh lord...


:Broncos:

TDmvp
09-02-2011, 03:11 PM
SCREW IT ALL! BRING BACK MCD TO FIX THIS MESS...

:spit:

Ban HIM !!! ... :) jk Ray.

I actually thought about making a Miss me Yet Josh pic just to be a @$$ much like this one I made before.


http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8067/motivatora9ed601e761d1e.jpg

gunns
09-02-2011, 03:17 PM
It doesn't matter. They've had starters go down and ALWAYS have a top defense. Always. Their depth is pretty damn amazing. Especially at the LB position.

That's because they have focused on defense forever and make sure it's provided for. Unlike the Broncos who are one of the worst at drafting (quality) or free agency (quality) for defense for the past 10 years. Probably why the Steelers have been in the SB twice during that time period. You can argue all you want about Tebow and Orton but until the D is up there, forget it. I think we are finally making some progress in that direction, but hell we needed starters before we could think about quality depth.

Dedhed
09-02-2011, 04:02 PM
:spit:

Ban HIM !!! ... :) jk Ray.

I actually thought about making a Miss me Yet Josh pic just to be a @$$ much like this one I made before.


http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8067/motivatora9ed601e761d1e.jpg

Not in the slightest.