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View Full Version : Winning season vs drafting Luck


ZONA
08-31-2011, 10:55 PM
Was just looking over some 1st round draft history and it's amazing how so many players don't really pan out to be what you would call great players. Heck, many 1st rounders aren't even starters after a few years. I guess this is more for those who think sucking to get higher picks is the best way to go about business. There's no guarantee the players you're hoping for will be any good. Have a look at this 2005 1st round draft. The top of the board has failure written all over it. I think honestly there are 5 or 6 guys from that entire 1st round draft, who I think would be better then what we have now.


Yup, Von Miller looks like the real deal. But for every one of those, you have like 15 failure picks in the top 10 also. I'm not saying Luck will suck, but Alex Smith looked impressive in college also. And if we have a decent season and we don't get the #1 pick, doesn't mean we can't find another QB in the draft. Green Bay got Aaron Rogers at #24 so let's all hope for a great season and let some other **** team who sucks have Luck. We'll find a great QB here soon.


2005 1st Round

Alex Smith
Ronnie Brown
Braylon Edwards
Cedric Benson
Carnell "Cadillac" Williams
Adam "Pac-Man" Jones
Troy Williamson
Antrel Rolle
Carlos Rogers
Mike Williams
DeMarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman
Jammal Brown
Thomas Davis
Derrick Johnson
Travis Johnson
David Pollack
Erasmus James
Marcus Spears
Matt Jones
Mark Clayton
Fabian Washington
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Chris Spencer
Roddy White
Luis Castillo
Marlin Jackson
Heath Miller
Mike Patterson
Logan Mankins

TDmvp
08-31-2011, 11:10 PM
Yup, Von Miller looks like the real deal. But for every one of those, you have like 15 failure picks in the top 10 also. I'm not saying Luck will suck, but Alex Smith looked impressive in college also. And if we have a decent season and we don't get the #1 pick, doesn't mean we can't find another QB in the draft. Green Bay got Aaron Rogers at #24 so let's all hope for a great season and let some other **** team who sucks have Luck. We'll find a great QB here soon.




:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Well said.
For some reason I'm just totally not sold on Luck.
But I live in Cincinnati where I've seen so many #1 picks bust that I'm always gun shy of upper 1st rounders.

But just say no to Luck !!!
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9850/ghostbustersh.jpg

randomtask
08-31-2011, 11:11 PM
While I agree that "suck for Luck" is an absolutely horrible idea, the 2005 draft was one of the worst drafts in at least 10 years, and shouldn't be used as an average example..

baja
08-31-2011, 11:21 PM
Hey I got an idea how about enjoying the games one at a time instead of projecting to next year's draft before this season opens.

NFLBRONCO
08-31-2011, 11:24 PM
While its no guarantee on any player I think taking a flier on a pro style rookie qb can pay off and pay off big. Avg QB's get you nowhere.

WABronco
08-31-2011, 11:24 PM
Solid thread. Good thoughts.

TDmvp
08-31-2011, 11:25 PM
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/9/23/128666567337299862.jpg


Hilarious!
Calm down mister.
Dude(Zona) was just having a thought.

DBroncos4life
08-31-2011, 11:28 PM
Coach losing and try and get that out of the players anytime soon. If the chips fall that way and we can draft Luck, great. If we lose on purpose to draft him I'll just cheer for my Huskers.

NFLBRONCO
09-01-2011, 12:04 AM
Coach losing and try and get that out of the players anytime soon. If the chips fall that way and we can draft Luck, great. If we lose on purpose to draft him I'll just cheer for my Huskers.

As a fan I want to get better I think a legit QB is the fastest way. If we do win 6 plus games great. If it works out we win only 5 or less games I'd want #1 pick honestly.


SUCK FOR LUCK

OrangeSe7en
09-01-2011, 12:14 AM
Was just looking over some 1st round draft history and it's amazing how so many players don't really pan out to be what you would call great players. Heck, many 1st rounders aren't even starters after a few years. I guess this is more for those who think sucking to get higher picks is the best way to go about business. There's no guarantee the players you're hoping for will be any good. Have a look at this 2005 1st round draft. The top of the board has failure written all over it. I think honestly there are 5 or 6 guys from that entire 1st round draft, who I think would be better then what we have now.


Yup, Von Miller looks like the real deal. But for every one of those, you have like 15 failure picks in the top 10 also. I'm not saying Luck will suck, but Alex Smith looked impressive in college also. And if we have a decent season and we don't get the #1 pick, doesn't mean we can't find another QB in the draft. Green Bay got Aaron Rogers at #24 so let's all hope for a great season and let some other **** team who sucks have Luck. We'll find a great QB here soon.


2005 1st Round

Alex Smith
Ronnie Brown
Braylon Edwards
Cedric Benson
Carnell "Cadillac" Williams
Adam "Pac-Man" Jones
Troy Williamson
Antrel Rolle
Carlos Rogers
Mike Williams
DeMarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman
Jammal Brown
Thomas Davis
Derrick Johnson
Travis Johnson
David Pollack
Erasmus James
Marcus Spears
Matt Jones
Mark Clayton
Fabian Washington
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Chris Spencer
Roddy White
Luis Castillo
Marlin Jackson
Heath Miller
Mike Patterson
Logan Mankins

I'm more sold on Luck than I am on Orton.

DBroncos4life
09-01-2011, 12:57 AM
Personally I think Justin Blackmon is the best O player in this draft next year. If we could land him and Thomas ever lives up to ability it wouldn't ever matter who the QB is.

broncocalijohn
09-01-2011, 01:13 AM
Hey I got an idea how about enjoying the games one at a time instead of projecting to next year's draft before this season opens.

Yep. If he is projected to go #1, why even bother watching our season if you think we are going to suck that bad to land him. I would rather love the upcoming season and enjoy as many wins as possible.

cutthemdown
09-01-2011, 02:32 AM
no way Broncos will be bad enough to get first or 2nd pick again. We are better this yr and there are teams far worst then the Broncos IMO. I think the Broncos will win enough games to get out of the top 10 in the draft.

BroncoInferno
09-01-2011, 06:07 AM
We aren't going to be bad enough to draft Luck, unless his stock plummets this season.

robbieopperude
09-01-2011, 06:22 AM
We are not getting Luck or Barkley without trading up. That 2005 draft had screwup all over it as the potential number 1 pick dropped to 24th because of team needs. I personally had projected the Niners to take Rodgers at number 1. Tedford essentially screwed him over by having Boller bust as a player just before he came out. In that draft you still have a Hall of Fame QB (barring injury) in the 1st round. That is pretty huge.

strafen
09-01-2011, 07:01 AM
Luck is gonna suck now?
Damn! I think I've heard every ridiculous statement I needed to hear in my lifetime from the mane.

Pick Six
09-01-2011, 07:55 AM
I think that the perception that we want Luck stems solely from the fact that he is a Stanford quarterback (like Elway). Let's just have a good season...:lombardi:

~Crash~
09-01-2011, 07:58 AM
Carolina fans are going to be so damn pissed at missing miller!

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 08:20 AM
While I agree that "suck for Luck" is an absolutely horrible idea, the 2005 draft was one of the worst drafts in at least 10 years, and shouldn't be used as an average example..

If you think 2005 was bad, go back and look at 2003. Absolute abomination.

spdirty
09-01-2011, 08:35 AM
Just as in every year, I'll root hard for my team till we are out of the playoff picture. Once we are out of it, I root for the best draft position possible. Thats how I've rooted for 20 years now. I doubt it would happen, but if in this season if we are in a position where a few losses will get us Luck, I'll root hard for that scenario. But I am thinking we will be drafting in t teens next year. And Cincinnatti will most likely get him. But right now I think 10 wins is possible, and thats what I'm rooting for.

baja
09-01-2011, 08:53 AM
Just as in every year, I'll root hard for my team till we are out of the playoff picture. Once we are out of it, I root for the best draft position possible. Thats how I've rooted for 20 years now. I doubt it would happen, but if in this season if we are in a position where a few losses will get us Luck, I'll root hard for that scenario. But I am thinking we will be drafting in t teens next year. And Cincinnatti will most likely get him. But right now I think 10 wins is possible, and thats what I'm rooting for.


http://www.deviantart.com/download/145242002/Rooting_in_the_Mud_by_digitalcirce.jpg

Hogan11
09-01-2011, 08:59 AM
As stated before, Tebow is not the future and the Broncos won't be bad enough to get a shot at Luck.

Tread water for a few years and then go for the real QOTF....Aaron Murray :)

beanerbronco
09-01-2011, 09:08 AM
Just as in every year, I'll root hard for my team till we are out of the playoff picture. Once we are out of it, I root for the best draft position possible. Thats how I've rooted for 20 years now. I doubt it would happen, but if in this season if we are in a position where a few losses will get us Luck, I'll root hard for that scenario. But I am thinking we will be drafting in t teens next year. And Cincinnatti will most likely get him. But right now I think 10 wins is possible, and thats what I'm rooting for.

I highly doubt Cincy picks him up; I say he stays in Cali and goes to the 9ers.

Requiem
09-01-2011, 09:13 AM
We should be able to find a great player with our first round pick, regardless of when we pick.

broncosteven
09-01-2011, 09:15 AM
Cincy, Buff, 49er's, and (if no Manning) the Colts will have have worse records than we will have.

Anyone who thinks an unproven rookie QB is going to tear up the league in 2012 is a fool. The Suck for Luck theory would take another 2-3 years after he is drafted to payoff.

I think next year there will be a huge run on QB's at the top of the draft. All the teams I mentioned need a QB, there are usually 3-4 QB's each year that the media say's have a shot to play in the league, they will be gone before Denver gets a shot at them.

I would stop hoping that Luck will be on our team next year and look for a more realistic option. Either it is Timbo's chance next year, we have to find a Vet on the scrap heap, or trade for an up and comer.

The chance to land Luck died the minute mCd and his Canton High buddies were escorted out of Dove Valley.

worm
09-01-2011, 09:17 AM
As stated before, Tebow is not the future and the Broncos won't be bad enough to get a shot at Luck.

Tread water for a few years and then go for the real QOTF....Aaron Murray :)

Hommmmmeeeeerrrrrrr! Aaron is too short.

It will be interesting to see how Murray performs this year. Doubt it will be good enough to save Richt's job. That means a whole new system for Aaron in '12. I could see him jumping to the NFL early.

Looking forward to the game this weekend. Murray won't be the best QB on the field. I think the Broncos are going to take the bulldogs behind the woodshed.

strafen
09-01-2011, 09:52 AM
With pre-season Super Star Kyle Orton, we may win 5-7 games this year, putting us out of reach to get Luck.
5-7 wins will be considered by most an improvement, and rightfully so when you know what our record was las year...

baja
09-01-2011, 10:09 AM
How many wins did losing Doom cost us last year?

Hogan11
09-01-2011, 10:10 AM
Hommmmmeeeeerrrrrrr! Aaron is too short.

It will be interesting to see how Murray performs this year. Doubt it will be good enough to save Richt's job. That means a whole new system for Aaron in '12. I could see him jumping to the NFL early.

Looking forward to the game this weekend. Murray won't be the best QB on the field. I think the Broncos are going to take the bulldogs behind the woodshed.

It'll be a very tough game for them Sat. night, no question.

I may be in homer mode here, but I'm thinking (hoping) Murray builds upon the level of play he showed last season. He performed very well and he's extremely promising. I think they'll surprise enough to save Richt's ass for at least another season.

And, as for jumping to the NFL early....unfortunately, I agree with you, I see it happening as well......hopefully as the new Broncos QOTF as the Tebow thing should be burned out and over with by then. ;)

Mile High Mojoe
09-01-2011, 10:10 AM
Just as in every year, I'll root hard for my team till we are out of the playoff picture. Once we are out of it, I root for the best draft position possible. Thats how I've rooted for 20 years now. I doubt it would happen, but if in this season if we are in a position where a few losses will get us Luck, I'll root hard for that scenario. But I am thinking we will be drafting in t teens next year. And Cincinnatti will most likely get him. But right now I think 10 wins is possible, and thats what I'm rooting for.

This is such insane thinking. The season hasn't even started and already we're talking about laying down for a draft pick? We play to win every game and let the draft position chips fall where they may after the season. Luck is an overrated QB and hardly worth taking a drive for. I can't believe the defeatist attitude by some on this board.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 11:15 AM
If you think 2005 was bad, go back and look at 2003. Absolute abomination.

He's talking about the league, not the Broncos.

HorseHead
09-01-2011, 11:18 AM
in regards to the question...I am an idiot computer wise, could someone post a picture of Herm Edwards for me? Therein lies the answer..gracias..

AlphaSeirra
09-01-2011, 11:26 AM
As stated before, Tebow is not the future and the Broncos won't be bad enough to get a shot at Luck.

Tread water for a few years and then go for the real QOTF....Aaron Murray :)

The Broncos already have a better QB than Luck.

Tebow > Lucky

SEC >>>>> LAC 10/12

I could prove it, but we all know that what anyone does in college means nothing at all....:wiggle:

==================

Now for the UGly comment.

Aaron Murray 6-1 211 rsSo
Passing - 209 of 342, 61.1% for 3,049 yds, 24 TD's to 8 Ints. 154 PER (NCAA)
(Tebow set the SEC Career PER Record at 170+,,, and only threw 16 Ints in his 4 years)

Rushing - 87 for 167 yds, 1.9 ypc with 4 TD's.
(Tebow broke UGly RB Herschel Walker's SEC Career Rushing TD record by a half dozen TD's)

Aaron couldn't even lead a UGly team to a win over the worst (8-5) Gator team since Ron Zook's days.....
In fact, he led UGly to a Bowl loss to freakin' Central Florida.:spit:

That was good for UGly's 1st LOSING season since 1996 btw.

Now, GIT back under the porch where you belong,,, mutt....:welcome:
====================

Not that I think they will, but if I had Denver's pick I'd take the BSU QB later rather than burn up draft picks in an attempt to get Lucky. :thumbsup:

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 11:31 AM
He's talking about the league, not the Broncos.

So am I. The 2003 NFL draft class was just plain bad.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 11:39 AM
So am I. The 2003 NFL draft class was just plain bad.There was plenty of talent at the top of the class in 2003, the Broncos just missed all of it.

Carson Palmer
Troy Polamalu
Andre Johnson
Ty Warren
Nnamdi A.
Terrell Suggs
Kevin Williams
DAllas Clark
Willis Mcgahee
Jordan Gross
Jonathan Sullivan
Marcus Trufant
Dewayne Robertson
Anquan Boldin

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 11:42 AM
There was plenty of talent at the top of the class in 2003, the Broncos just missed all of it.



There are always SOME stars in every draft. There were just a ton of busts and guys that did nothing. Same number of probowlers as 2005s draft, even though they've been in the league two years longer. To me, that makes it worse.

Just my opinion.

(And to be fair, the Broncos had no shot at drafting many of the names on that list based on their draft slot)

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 11:46 AM
There are always SOME stars in every draft. There were just a ton of busts and guys that did nothing. Same number of probowlers as 2005s draft, even though they've been in the league two years longer. To me, that makes it worse.

Just my opinion.

(And to be fair, the Broncos had no shot at drafting many of the names on that list based on their draft slot)
The 2003 class had an above average number of PB players in the first 3 rounds.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 11:48 AM
Just my opinion.


There were also 7 UDFAs from the 2003 class who eventually made the pro bowl. More than any other class from 2000-2007

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 11:56 AM
There were also 7 UDFAs from the 2003 class who eventually made the pro bowl. More than any other class from 2000-2007

By definition, they were "undrafted" so they are outside the scope of this argument.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 12:00 PM
By definition, they were "undrafted" so they are outside the scope of this argument.

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever read on the mane, and that's saying something.

All that talent was in the class for the taking and part of the class.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 12:06 PM
That's about the dumbest thing I've ever read on the mane, and that's saying something.

All that talent was in the class for the taking and part of the class.

I guess the "undrafted" in "undrafted free agents" now means "drafted" and free agents really doesn't mean free agents. Got it. I'll let the league know.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 12:35 PM
I guess the "undrafted" in "undrafted free agents" now means "drafted" and free agents really doesn't mean free agents. Got it. I'll let the league know.

I understand that you want to back out of the argument because you were presented with facts that show your opinion was based mainly on a lack of knowledge.

It's a shame that people can't just say "wow, I didn't realize that."

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 12:46 PM
I understand that you want to back out of the argument because you were presented with facts that show your opinion was based mainly on a lack of knowledge.

It's a shame that people can't just say "wow, I didn't realize that."

I'm fresh off a "my bad" in a different thread where I made a mistake. I have no problem admitting mistakes or conceding arguments where I'm wrong. This one is simply an opinion, which I made clear. I presented my argument about why I felt the 2003 draft class (of which nobody ever includes the undrafteds....google it...wiki it....whatever - no site will include them under their list of "20__ draft picks") was worse than 2005's.

But, to appease you as you apparently need to be for whatever reason, "wow, I really didn't realize that about the 2003 undrafted free agents. It's an interesting tidbit that I've never read or seen before. Still doesn't change my opinion though."

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 01:09 PM
But, to appease you as you apparently need to be for whatever reason, "wow, I really didn't realize that about the 2003 undrafted free agents. It's an interesting tidbit that I've never read or seen before. Still doesn't change my opinion though."
You've completely ignored the fact that the first 3 rounds had an above average number of PB players. Do they count in the "Drafted players" argument, or is there some other caveat you want to duck behind?

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 01:18 PM
You've completely ignored the fact that the first 3 rounds had an above average number of PB players. Do they count in the "Drafted players" argument, or is there some other caveat you want to duck behind?

I didn't ignore any facts. I don't want to fight you on this, but if you really want to push the issue, then fine. What exactly do you mean by that statement? I see no links to anything, so how exactly are you drawing this conclusion? What is the average number? What was the # that year? Are you counting just "players that made the probowl" in that figure or are you counting "players that made the probowl x the number of times they've made it so far"? In other words, if one guy from a draft makes 10 probowls, does it count 1x or does it count 10x in your calculation.

Why are you cherrypicking the "first three rounds". Were the first and second bad, but the third really good? What about the 4th-7th?

I need context and sources/links before I can fully address and debate the issue.

It's sad how painful it's become to come here when I can't even make a simple statement like, "man that 2003 draft was really crappy", without it coming to blows.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 01:25 PM
I didn't ignore any facts. I don't want to fight you on this, but if you really want to push the issue, then fine. What exactly do you mean by that statement? I see no links to anything, so how exactly are you drawing this conclusion? What is the average number? What was the # that year? Are you counting just "players that made the probowl" in that figure or are you counting "players that made the probowl x the number of times they've made it so far"? In other words, if one guy from a draft makes 10 probowls, does it count 1x or does it count 10x in your calculation.

Why are you cherrypicking the "first three rounds". Were the first and second bad, but the third really good? What about the 4th-7th?

I need context and sources/links before I can fully address and debate the issue.

It's sad how painful it's become to come here when I can't even make a simple statement like, "man that 2003 draft was really crappy", without it coming to blows.ha, saying I'm cherry picking the first three rounds after calling me out for including every player who was available whether they were drafted or not; that's rich.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 01:48 PM
You're right. I don't know what I was thinking by cherry-picking the entire freaking draft when the criteria was "the 2003 draft".

Breaker
09-01-2011, 02:09 PM
We might not be bad enough to get Luck(y) and be #1 overall, however I can see Elway doing everything in his power to move up from say the 5 or 6 spot to take Luck at #1. Elway is in love with the kid and would move heaven and earth to grab him. You gotta remember also that Landry Jones and Matt Barkley will both be in this draft also and they are both big time prospects in their own right, Barkley clearing being a bigger prospect. Plus dont forget Kellen Moore from Boise St, not as much upside but still a very good prospect. Even if we dont get Luck, there should be a couple other high level qbs that Elway could look at.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 02:09 PM
You're right. I don't know what I was thinking by cherry-picking the entire freaking draft when the criteria was "the 2003 draft".

Wow...I guess.

enjolras
09-01-2011, 02:22 PM
How many wins did losing Doom cost us last year?

I'm going to go with two. The Jets game might have ended in a win as they were throwing the ball a ton at the end. We probably beat a team like San Francisco with the edge pressure Doom can generate.

baja
09-01-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm going to go with two. The Jets game might have ended in a win as they were throwing the ball a ton at the end. We probably beat a team like San Francisco with the edge pressure Doom can generate.

So one could hypothesize the loss of Doom brought us Fox and Von, further more since the team likely would have gone 6 and 10 with Doom one could further hypothesize with better coaching and a good draft that brought us three starters and most importantly a much improved O line we could expect 3 to 4 more wins this season. I also think a Tebow trick will be good for one win so I think we go 10 and 6 and win the division.