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View Full Version : lets compare this years team to last years team (on paper)


mwill07
08-31-2011, 07:32 PM
So I was thinking about this earlier...the amount of *on paper* improvement we've made so far vs last year is pretty impressive. let's break it down:
OL:

2010: Gimpy Clady, Daniels, Walton, Gimpy Kuper, Beadles. Two injured vets, 2 rookies, and one guy who has never started before. Only 2 of the 5 have ever played together previously. IMO, going into the season with an OL this inexperienced was one of McD's biggest failures that rarely gets talked about. It was damn reckless.
2011: Healthy (kow*) Clady, Beadles, Walton, Healthy (kow*) Kuper, Franklin. Healthy across the board, only one rookie. 4 of 5 played together last year. I'd say this is a pretty significant improvement.

QB:

push.

RB:

2010: Gimpy Moreno, Buckhalter, Maroney
2011: Healthy Moreno (kow*), McGahee. an improvement in pretty much every way. Moreno will have a different role - was power back, now he's the receiving back. That plays to his strengths much better. McGahee is a much better short yardage guy than Moreno ever was.

WR:

2010: Lloyd, Gaffney, Royal
2011: Lloyd, Decker, Royal. Should be a push (?)

TE:

2010: Graham, Gronkowski
2011: Fells, Julius Thomas, Rosario. Really not sure here, but in terms of receiving, we can't be much worse.

Front 7:

2010: 3-4 with DJ Williams as best player.
2011: 4-3, gotta assume Von and Doom account for a pretty significant improvement here.

secondary:

2010: Champ, Goodman, Dawkins, Hill
2011:Champ, Goodman, Dawkins, Moore. We've got to assume that Dawkins will be a step slower than he was at the start of last season. Moore may be an improvement over Hill,

kicking game:

push

Coaching:

2010: McDaniels, Martindale. Not much to like here. questionable playcalling, under-utilization of running game, defense that other coaches said was schematically unsound.
2011: Fox, McCoy, Allen: competency. period.

When you look at it positionally, we have definitely improved in the OL, RB, defensive front 7, and coaching. QB and kicking game are all the same guys, so no down grades here. that leaves secondary, TE, and WR, and frankly, I think that we may see improvements in all three of these areas. I think that the upgrades across the board have been pretty significant, if not nationally heralded.

With this in mind, it's really hard for me to understand how anyone can objectively look at this, and project this team to not be better than last years team by at least a couple of games. 6-10 is an absolute floor - anyone who predicts this team to win 5 or less is obviously on crack.

I think that this team is an 8 win team, give or take. A couple of lucky bounces and we could be 10-6. A couple of unlucky bounces and we are 6-10. Overall though - 8-8 is a very realistic prediction, and we could be contending for the division title.

*kow = knock on wood

tnedator
08-31-2011, 07:40 PM
I agree with your position by position breakdown, and we should be better in terms of wins. The kicker is the MUCH tougher schedule. That said, I agree six wins is the floor, I'm expecting 6-9 wins, with an outside chance of a better upside and chance at a playoff spot if this defense is even close to how it's looked in preseason.

brncs_fan
08-31-2011, 07:41 PM
2010: McDaniels, Martindale. Not much to like here. questionable playcalling, under-utilization of running game, defense that other coaches said was schematically unsound.


It will be an improvement having 11 guys on the field every play.

broncosteven
08-31-2011, 07:44 PM
The only problem I have with the OP is that there is no paper involved.

Otherwise I feel the same way about this years team, no reason we can't beat on a teams like Oakland and KFC this year and win 8 or 9 games.

Dukes
08-31-2011, 07:46 PM
Goodman was also injured/ineffective last year. If he's healthy then I think the tie goes to 2011. I'd also take Moore over Hill.

mwill07
08-31-2011, 07:52 PM
I agree with your position by position breakdown, and we should be better in terms of wins. The kicker is the MUCH tougher schedule. That said, I agree six wins is the floor, I'm expecting 6-9 wins, with an outside chance of a better upside and chance at a playoff spot if this defense is even close to how it's looked in preseason.

here's the thing: pre-season strength of schedule means absolutely nothing. This schedule could be easier than last years, with a couple of key injuries or implosions on opponents teams. What looks daunting in August may not be so bad in December.

Frankly, I think that last years team would have been a 6-8 win team with competent coaching. I firmly believe that the McD spygate cost us the StL and AZ game by virtue of distraction, and McD cost us the game in KFC by completely abandoning the run with 12+ min left in the game, after Moreno had been killin' it. That's a 3 game improvement right there, just by walking McD out.

Swedish Extrovert
08-31-2011, 07:57 PM
I wouldn't give up hope yet on Moreno becoming a top back in the NFL.

Swedish Extrovert
08-31-2011, 07:58 PM
I really like Daniel Fells as a good mentor and role type blocking guy that can receive. Julius Thomas is going to be money.

Swedish Extrovert
08-31-2011, 08:02 PM
Our front seven is unrecognizable from last year:

Doom - DJ - Mays - Ayers / LB
Vickerson - Williams - Bannan / DL

Vs.
Von - Mays - DJ
Ayers - Vickerson - Bunkley -

That is dramatic. Not a single player coming back at their same position as last year, DJ, Doom and Ayers in their natural spots... plus Bunkley > Bannan, Von >>>>> anyone at OLB.

I might be seeing things, but I like what I've seen from Bunkley and Fells... anyone?

Borks147
08-31-2011, 08:08 PM
I can't remember the last time I've seen a team change so much in one off-season. If they had actually gotten a stud DT or two, tell me where the other holes are. Am I wearing orange-tinted glasses? Drafting Von and (basically) adding Doom - I mean Jesus, teams salivate at the thought of instantly adding that much firepower.

Borks147
08-31-2011, 08:10 PM
Also - I realize my avatar is orange-tinted glasses....so what.

Swedish Extrovert
08-31-2011, 08:22 PM
We were an 8-8 team last year that severely underperformed in a number of games. We're not elite, but we're underrated.

Swedish Extrovert
08-31-2011, 08:23 PM
Also - I realize my avatar is orange-tinted glasses....so what.

You're out of your element.

Borks147
08-31-2011, 08:37 PM
You're out of your element.

You're not wrong, you're just an asshole.

I agree with the 8-8 comment - so close, yet so far away because of key injuries and crap coaching. Oh well, such is life.

Archer81
08-31-2011, 08:51 PM
I can't remember the last time I've seen a team change so much in one off-season. If they had actually gotten a stud DT or two, tell me where the other holes are. Am I wearing orange-tinted glasses? Drafting Von and (basically) adding Doom - I mean Jesus, teams salivate at the thought of instantly adding that much firepower.


Depth on defense (I think our starters are going to be solid to good) and depth along the offensive line. IF the team stays relatively healthy 8 wins is not impossible. 10 wins would be pretty awesome, but I dont think the team is there yet.

Our pass rush is going to be ridiculous. Begging for a passrush for years and it appears we have one. I honestly do not know how to react to that.

:Broncos:

Borks147
08-31-2011, 09:09 PM
Depth on defense (I think our starters are going to be solid to good) and depth along the offensive line. IF the team stays relatively healthy 8 wins is not impossible. 10 wins would be pretty awesome, but I dont think the team is there yet.

Our pass rush is going to be ridiculous. Begging for a passrush for years and it appears we have one. I honestly do not know how to react to that.

:Broncos:

You're absolutely right *furiously knocking on wood*

Yeah, I hope this pans out. Pass rush? Denver? Whaaaaaaaa?

fdf
08-31-2011, 09:12 PM
IMO, going into the season with an OL this inexperienced was one of McD's biggest failures that rarely gets talked about. It was damn reckless.

To make this statement, you have to consider the available alternatives. They were: (1) Keep the Shanahan OL, which had disintegrated into a disaster; (2) Repair the line with FA; or (3) Repair it with the draft and take your lumps with rookies.

The broncos chose (3). That doesn't strike me as reckless. Just a team intent to rebuild the OL quickly. Frankly, it seems to me they may have succeded, if preseason blocking by the first string OL is any indication. It's been years since our guys on the OL looked this good.

Durango
09-01-2011, 02:31 AM
A whole lot of 'ifs' in 2011. Like you say, a few fortunate bounces and we're above .500, BUT that damnable D-line HAS to improve against the run. That one single improvement would make the Broncos contenders, because the pass rush issue is solved.

8 & 8 still looks like the max to me, but we can definitely spoil the party for Oakland and KC...looking forward to that.

dbfan21
09-01-2011, 03:19 AM
Also - I realize my avatar is orange-tinted glasses....so what.

LOL

dbfan21
09-01-2011, 03:22 AM
Depth on defense (I think our starters are going to be solid to good) and depth along the offensive line. IF the team stays relatively healthy 8 wins is not impossible. 10 wins would be pretty awesome, but I dont think the team is there yet.

Our pass rush is going to be ridiculous. Begging for a passrush for years and it appears we have one. I honestly do not know how to react to that.

:Broncos:

I love the fact we now have the ability to put pressure on the QB. Unless opposing offenses are going to run a 2 TE set the entire game to help on blocking Doom and Miller, our guys are going to have a party in the backfield!

errand
09-01-2011, 04:35 AM
Well on paper we look good ....so what we need to do is petition pat bowlen to convert the turf into cardboard......

All kidding aside..... you have to like the improvements that have been made on the team in particular the defensive of side of the ball...... with an improved O-line and running game not to mention not being down by 14 or 21 points every game, I believe we could contend for at least a wild card spot

Mediator12
09-01-2011, 05:30 AM
This team is better in our minds on paper, but what really matters is still execution. Talent without execution is simply frustrating. We need to see the product on the field post-preseason to even consider if some of these are really upgrades or just wishful thinking.

They are still poor against the run, even with a really aggressive front and run blitzing to this point. Unless that is fixed, the Pass rush will not be as potent as people believe. Also, they are going to get burned if they blitz half as much as they have in the preseason. This will be a high risk/high reward defense and It remains to be seen if that really helps or is just more fun to watch.

The offense is going to be more ball control, and less vertical in nature. That will be good if they clean up third down conversion %. However, it will be worse if they can not get better at that. Nothing worse than short drives with no first downs, no points, and defense right back on the field.

I hope this group plays better than the group did last year, however the coaches do not even know how this team will perform until the lights go on for real.

Rock Chalk
09-01-2011, 06:06 AM
This team is better in our minds on paper, but what really matters is still execution. Talent without execution is simply frustrating. We need to see the product on the field post-preseason to even consider if some of these are really upgrades or just wishful thinking.

They are still poor against the run, even with a really aggressive front and run blitzing to this point. Unless that is fixed, the Pass rush will not be as potent as people believe. Also, they are going to get burned if they blitz half as much as they have in the preseason. This will be a high risk/high reward defense and It remains to be seen if that really helps or is just more fun to watch.

The offense is going to be more ball control, and less vertical in nature. That will be good if they clean up third down conversion %. However, it will be worse if they can not get better at that. Nothing worse than short drives with no first downs, no points, and defense right back on the field.

I hope this group plays better than the group did last year, however the coaches do not even know how this team will perform until the lights go on for real.

Dude, its a great take Mediator, but also completely off topic.

The thread is about breaking down position by position, on PAPER, is the team better. Obviously we wont know until the lights are on for real.

alkemical
09-01-2011, 06:12 AM
This team is better in our minds on paper, but what really matters is still execution. Talent without execution is simply frustrating. We need to see the product on the field post-preseason to even consider if some of these are really upgrades or just wishful thinking.

They are still poor against the run, even with a really aggressive front and run blitzing to this point. Unless that is fixed, the Pass rush will not be as potent as people believe. Also, they are going to get burned if they blitz half as much as they have in the preseason. This will be a high risk/high reward defense and It remains to be seen if that really helps or is just more fun to watch.

The offense is going to be more ball control, and less vertical in nature. That will be good if they clean up third down conversion %. However, it will be worse if they can not get better at that. Nothing worse than short drives with no first downs, no points, and defense right back on the field.

I hope this group plays better than the group did last year, however the coaches do not even know how this team will perform until the lights go on for real.

So, what are the words you've heard on opinions of the Broncos off season changes?

Don't sugar coat it. :D

mwill07
09-01-2011, 06:43 AM
This team is better in our minds on paper, but what really matters is still execution. Talent without execution is simply frustrating. We need to see the product on the field post-preseason to even consider if some of these are really upgrades or just wishful thinking.

They are still poor against the run, even with a really aggressive front and run blitzing to this point. Unless that is fixed, the Pass rush will not be as potent as people believe. Also, they are going to get burned if they blitz half as much as they have in the preseason. This will be a high risk/high reward defense and It remains to be seen if that really helps or is just more fun to watch.

The offense is going to be more ball control, and less vertical in nature. That will be good if they clean up third down conversion %. However, it will be worse if they can not get better at that. Nothing worse than short drives with no first downs, no points, and defense right back on the field.

I hope this group plays better than the group did last year, however the coaches do not even know how this team will perform until the lights go on for real.

Regarding run D and 3rd down conversions: you are right in that we don't know what the impact of positional upgrades will be. However, we were so bad in these areas last year, its tough to imagine it gets worse. Obviously, it takes a little pre-season faith that things will get better, and i do believe that there is room for optimism.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 07:07 AM
With the exception of WR, I'd say the 2011 starters are similar to or better than the 2010 starters on paper.

WR, however, can't be a wash if all you're doing is comparing production on paper. Decker IS NOT anywhere near Gaffney on paper. Sure, he has some good potential, but potential doesn't come into an "on paper" argument.

mwill07
09-01-2011, 07:27 AM
To make this statement, you have to consider the available alternatives. They were: (1) Keep the Shanahan OL, which had disintegrated into a disaster; (2) Repair the line with FA; or (3) Repair it with the draft and take your lumps with rookies.

The broncos chose (3). That doesn't strike me as reckless. Just a team intent to rebuild the OL quickly. Frankly, it seems to me they may have succeded, if preseason blocking by the first string OL is any indication. It's been years since our guys on the OL looked this good.

Here's the thing: im ok with starting rookies on the line. Hell, start two. But when you throw Stanley Daniels in there to make three, and don't have any vets around to plug in if the rookies struggle...that's a recipe for disaster. You most certainly can (and should) build through the draft,but it would have been great to have a back-up plan. I'm not sure who the right guys to bring in would have been, but certainly there was more out there than Eric Olsen.

I saw a stat that said our starting OL had by far the fewest total games started in the league. Consider that and look at the back-ups...

Batiste: 4 career starts
Stanley Daniels: 0 career starts
Chris Clark: 0 career starts
Eric Olsen: 0 career starts
Russ Hochstein: the veteran of the bunch with 26 career starts over 8 years.

At the same time, we let Wiegmann and Hamilton walk. I'm not saying those guys would have bee the answer and we clearly needed a youth movement, but it would have been great to have them around...either to keep the seats warm until the rooks were good to go, or to provide spot-help as needed from the bench.

mwill07
09-01-2011, 07:30 AM
With the exception of WR, I'd say the 2011 starters are similar to or better than the 2010 starters on paper.

WR, however, can't be a wash if all you're doing is comparing production on paper. Decker IS NOT anywhere near Gaffney on paper. Sure, he has some good potential, but potential doesn't come into an "on paper" argument.
Yeah, i think you are probably right. However, i'd counter that with bumpy Royal vs (kow*) healthy Royal.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 07:45 AM
Yeah, i think you are probably right. However, i'd counter that with bumpy Royal vs (kow*) healthy Royal.

Royal has regressed ever since week 10 or so of his rookie season. I'm not convinced he's willing to work on his game and get back to where he was early that rookie season when nobody had tape on him. Opposing defenses seem to have figured him out and he, in my opinion, doesn't seem to have elevated his game in response to that.

maher_tyler
09-01-2011, 08:25 AM
So I was thinking about this earlier...the amount of *on paper* improvement we've made so far vs last year is pretty impressive. let's break it down:
OL:

2010: Gimpy Clady, Daniels, Walton, Gimpy Kuper, Beadles. Two injured vets, 2 rookies, and one guy who has never started before. Only 2 of the 5 have ever played together previously. IMO, going into the season with an OL this inexperienced was one of McD's biggest failures that rarely gets talked about. It was damn reckless.
2011: Healthy (kow*) Clady, Beadles, Walton, Healthy (kow*) Kuper, Franklin. Healthy across the board, only one rookie. 4 of 5 played together last year. I'd say this is a pretty significant improvement.

QB:

push.

RB:

2010: Gimpy Moreno, Buckhalter, Maroney
2011: Healthy Moreno (kow*), McGahee. an improvement in pretty much every way. Moreno will have a different role - was power back, now he's the receiving back. That plays to his strengths much better. McGahee is a much better short yardage guy than Moreno ever was.

WR:

2010: Lloyd, Gaffney, Royal
2011: Lloyd, Decker, Royal. Should be a push (?)

TE:

2010: Graham, Gronkowski
2011: Fells, Julius Thomas, Rosario. Really not sure here, but in terms of receiving, we can't be much worse.

Front 7:

2010: 3-4 with DJ Williams as best player.
2011: 4-3, gotta assume Von and Doom account for a pretty significant improvement here.

secondary:

2010: Champ, Goodman, Dawkins, Hill
2011:Champ, Goodman, Dawkins, Moore. We've got to assume that Dawkins will be a step slower than he was at the start of last season. Moore may be an improvement over Hill,

kicking game:

push

Coaching:

2010: McDaniels, Martindale. Not much to like here. questionable playcalling, under-utilization of running game, defense that other coaches said was schematically unsound.
2011: Fox, McCoy, Allen: competency. period.

When you look at it positionally, we have definitely improved in the OL, RB, defensive front 7, and coaching. QB and kicking game are all the same guys, so no down grades here. that leaves secondary, TE, and WR, and frankly, I think that we may see improvements in all three of these areas. I think that the upgrades across the board have been pretty significant, if not nationally heralded.

With this in mind, it's really hard for me to understand how anyone can objectively look at this, and project this team to not be better than last years team by at least a couple of games. 6-10 is an absolute floor - anyone who predicts this team to win 5 or less is obviously on crack.

I think that this team is an 8 win team, give or take. A couple of lucky bounces and we could be 10-6. A couple of unlucky bounces and we are 6-10. Overall though - 8-8 is a very realistic prediction, and we could be contending for the division title.

*kow = knock on wood

I'm thinking 7-9...there is at least one game we "should" win but will unexpectadly(sp?) lose. Like on the road against the Chiefs or Raiders. Detriot isn't looking like a team to over look either...

Requiem
09-01-2011, 08:30 AM
We can win our first three games.

We can split our divisional games.

We can beat 3 out of 4 of the NFC North teams.

9 wins is a strong possibility.

maher_tyler
09-01-2011, 08:41 AM
You're out of your element.

Hilarious!

Quoydogs
09-01-2011, 08:43 AM
With the exception of WR, I'd say the 2011 starters are similar to or better than the 2010 starters on paper.

WR, however, can't be a wash if all you're doing is comparing production on paper. Decker IS NOT anywhere near Gaffney on paper. Sure, he has some good potential, but potential doesn't come into an "on paper" argument.
What about in his Photos ? Is he worth something here ? Good Memories + new memories = AWESOME !

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=29103&stc=1&d=1314891629


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=29104&stc=1&d=1314892185

broncosteven
09-01-2011, 08:59 AM
We can win our first three games.

We can split our divisional games.

We can beat 3 out of 4 of the NFC North teams.

9 wins is a strong possibility.

That is how I felt when Shanny was here, there was always a shot, I hope Fox can TCB and bring hopes of playoffs back to Bronco fans!

maher_tyler
09-01-2011, 09:28 AM
We can win our first three games.

We can split our divisional games.

We can beat 3 out of 4 of the NFC North teams.

9 wins is a strong possibility.

That equals 8 wins.

TonyR
09-01-2011, 09:34 AM
Royal has regressed ever since week 10 or so of his rookie season...

Still makes me puke that they bypassed DeSean Jackson for him...

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 09:52 AM
That equals 8 wins.

3+3+3 = 8 ?

Must be that "new math" I keep hearing about.

Cito Pelon
09-01-2011, 10:08 AM
What about in his Photos ? Is he worth something here ? Good Memories + new memories = AWESOME !

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=29103&stc=1&d=1314891629


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=29104&stc=1&d=1314892185

Decker seems to me is an upgrade over Gaffney. Better blocker, faster, better redzone threat. Gaffney was a good player (and the old fox Shanny has him starting already in WASH), but Gaffney only has a couple more years in him. Denver was wise to get something for Jabar, and get a little depth for the DL, and make room for Decker.

And for the OP, yeah, the roster looks better on paper. There's not a whole bunch of starting jobs changing hands. But at TE, RB, S and LB those had to be upgraded and I think they were. Also working some of the new guys from last year deeper into the lineup - Squid, Vaughn, Mays.

Cito Pelon
09-01-2011, 10:17 AM
Still makes me puke that they bypassed DeSean Jackson for him...

Royal just doesn't seem to be doing too well in the outside WR flanker role. His best role is still a guy in motion, runs some shorter routes, gets some mid-yardage 1st downs, maybe gets some YAC from the crossing routes.

DThomas is the guy I want to see come back strong from that Achilles. He has size, speed, hands and would be a nice complement to Lloyd at flanker. With Decker, Royal, Willis that would be nice young WR corps.

gyldenlove
09-01-2011, 10:17 AM
OL: Improved significantly, Clady is healthy, Beadles and Walton are a year older and Hochstein is nowhere near the starting lineup.

RB: Improved, Moreno is a better player when he plays lighter and Mcgahee is a step up from anyone we had last year.

Every other position on offense is a push within normal tolerances.

On defense we have 2 improvements, pass rush and coaching. We saw how the defense went from a slightly above middle of the pack with Nolan and Dumervil to worst in the league and worst in team history without those 2. I believe with Allen, Dumervil and Miller we will return to the middle of the table at least in defensive ranks (I also believe this will be worth 3 or 4 wins).

All in all I rank this team to be a 9-7 team.

pricejj
09-01-2011, 10:19 AM
To make this statement, you have to consider the available alternatives. They were: (1) Keep the Shanahan OL, which had disintegrated into a disaster; (2) Repair the line with FA; or (3) Repair it with the draft and take your lumps with rookies.

The broncos chose (3). That doesn't strike me as reckless. Just a team intent to rebuild the OL quickly. Frankly, it seems to me they may have succeded, if preseason blocking by the first string OL is any indication. It's been years since our guys on the OL looked this good.

We had #11 and #14 overall, traded down, and down, and back up, to get Demaryius Thomas at #22 (injury prone, may never play), and Tim Tebow at #25 (3rd string backup).


In the first round, we passed over:
Mike Iupati, #1 rated guard
Maurkice Pouncey, #1 rated center
Bryan Bulaga, #2 rated guard

Instead we drafted:
Zane Beadles, 5th rated guard (at #45) (worst player at his position in 2010 NFL)
J.D. Walton, 4th rated center (in a bad class of centers) (at #80) (worst player at his position in 2010 NFL)

So yes, McDaniels recklessly chose to rebuild in the draft with marginal players, and back-ups, WASTING two high 1st round draft picks, and wasting away the equivalent of a 2nd rounder in trade losses.

Beadles may eventually become an average starter at LG, has been continually pushed back in the preseason.
Walton is undersized, doesn't have the intelligence, and will need to be replaced.

jonny1
09-01-2011, 10:20 AM
3+3+3 = 8 ?

Must be that "new math" I keep hearing about.

Faders are counted twice (win the first three games, split the division).

baja
09-01-2011, 10:25 AM
3+3+3 = 8 ?

Must be that "new math" I keep hearing about.

One of those first three wins is against Oakland

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 10:30 AM
Doh....my bad.

SportinOne
09-01-2011, 10:37 AM
and we should have won more games than we did last year.. horrible coaching.

this year we'll be even better. god damnit i love Von Miller.

i'm convinced. we are in BOSS mode.

TonyR
09-01-2011, 10:52 AM
Zane Beadles... (worst player at his position in 2010 NFL)
J.D. Walton... (worst player at his position in 2010 NFL)

Ouch.

TonyR
09-01-2011, 10:54 AM
DThomas is the guy I want to see come back strong from that Achilles. He has size, speed, hands...

I think he showed some glimpses of massive potential last year. I think the sky's the limit for him if things break right, but thus far they haven't...

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 10:55 AM
Decker seems to me is an upgrade over Gaffney. Better blocker, faster, better redzone threat. Gaffney was a good player (and the old fox Shanny has him starting already in WASH), but Gaffney only has a couple more years in him. Denver was wise to get something for Jabar, and get a little depth for the DL, and make room for Decker.

On paper....not potential. Put their NFL accomplishments from last year "on paper" and it's not even close.

In the grand scheme, yes, Decker may be an eventual upgrade. But right now, you can't say that he is based on his current resume.

Br0nc0Buster
09-01-2011, 10:57 AM
Overall have more talent I think than last year

Would be really nice if the preseason studs like Mays and Vaughn were able to carry their performance over to the regular season

Heard on the lightrail though we are gonna BOSS the AFC West this year

Cito Pelon
09-01-2011, 11:35 AM
On paper....not potential. Put their NFL accomplishments from last year "on paper" and it's not even close.

In the grand scheme, yes, Decker may be an eventual upgrade. But right now, you can't say that he is based on his current resume.

Hell, man, "on paper" = potential, that's what "on paper" means (maybe not in Boston, since you guys have had paper longer than us hicks).

I'm ok with saying Decker is a better blocker, faster, and a better red zone threat than Gaffney, although Gaffney was not a problem on the team.

tnedator
09-01-2011, 11:41 AM
here's the thing: pre-season strength of schedule means absolutely nothing. This schedule could be easier than last years, with a couple of key injuries or implosions on opponents teams. What looks daunting in August may not be so bad in December.

Frankly, I think that last years team would have been a 6-8 win team with competent coaching. I firmly believe that the McD spygate cost us the StL and AZ game by virtue of distraction, and McD cost us the game in KFC by completely abandoning the run with 12+ min left in the game, after Moreno had been killin' it. That's a 3 game improvement right there, just by walking McD out.

I usually refer to the schedule as "tough on paper" or something like that, since you're right, you never know for sure how tough a schedule is going to be when just basing it on the past year.

That said, the NFC North, with what looks like Detroit finally rising from the ashes, along with playing the Pats and Jets, look to be a fairly tough test. Time will tell.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 11:41 AM
I'm ok with saying Decker is a better blocker, faster, and a better red zone threat than Gaffney

If that was really the case, he would've started over Gaffney last year. He didn't. For me, it comes down to this: if Gaffney was still on the team today, who would start? Him or Decker? I don't think anyone could honestly answer Decker, so by definition, that means we've not improved the position "on paper", at least not until Decker has actually realized some of his potential.

Cito Pelon
09-01-2011, 11:55 AM
I think he showed some glimpses of massive potential last year. I think the sky's the limit for him if things break right, but thus far they haven't...

I have my fingers crossed for DThomas, dude has massive potential.

Cito Pelon
09-01-2011, 11:59 AM
If that was really the case, he would've started over Gaffney last year. He didn't. For me, it comes down to this: if Gaffney was still on the team today, who would start? Him or Decker? I don't think anyone could honestly answer Decker, so by definition, that means we've not improved the position "on paper", at least not until Decker has actually realized some of his potential.

Decker was hurt coming into TC last year, and Decker would certainly start this season over Gaffney, that's why they traded Gaffney for some DL depth.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 12:14 PM
and Decker would certainly start this season over Gaffney, that's why they traded Gaffney for some DL depth.

They traded him because they looked deeper at WR than DL, which was undoubtedly true at the time given that they only had one or two DTs on the roster then.....not because any of that depth was necessarily better head to head than Gaffney at the time.

maher_tyler
09-01-2011, 12:48 PM
3+3+3 = 8 ?

Must be that "new math" I keep hearing about.

One of those first 3 games your counting is VS a divisional team...we would have to win 4 of 6 divisional games to get to 9 wins :thumbsup:

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 12:50 PM
One of those first 3 games your counting is VS a divisional team...we would have to win 4 of 6 divisional games to get to 9 wins :thumbsup:

I said my bad two hours ago. I'm not saying it again. :)

maher_tyler
09-01-2011, 12:52 PM
I said my bad two hours ago. I'm not saying it again. :)

It's all good..i should have scrolled a little further...

enjolras
09-01-2011, 01:24 PM
They traded him because they looked deeper at WR than DL, which was undoubtedly true at the time given that they only had one or two DTs on the roster then.....not because any of that depth was necessarily better head to head than Gaffney at the time.

I prefer Decker. He reminds me of Mcaffrey

KCStud
09-01-2011, 02:02 PM
We can win our first three games.

We can split our divisional games.

We can beat 3 out of 4 of the NFC North teams.

9 wins is a strong possibility.

Idk about the divisional games. The Broncos can't stop the run and the 2 best running teams are in the division. The Chargers have an elite QB with weapons. SD and OAK's defense were top 10 last year while KC was just outside of the top 10 (top 10 scoring defense tho).
As for the NFC North, Packers not included, the Lions have some serious talent now. The Bears still have a strong defense and a capable QB and the Vikings still have a lot of talent, including AD.

Can the Broncos improve their run offense/defense?
Can SD play up to it's potential?
Can KC prove that last year was not a fluke?
Can OAK prove that they really are the best in the division after sweeping it last year?

Every team in the division has a lot to prove this year just like every other team in the division.