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View Full Version : Who is the worst starting QB in the division?


Paul Finebaum PWNS!
08-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Is it Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell or Matt Cassel?

Aftermath
08-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Campbell

cutthemdown
08-28-2011, 03:44 PM
Campbell and its not even close.

razorwire77
08-28-2011, 03:54 PM
1.) Phillip Rivers



















2-4.) Everybody else. As much as it's a pissing contest between rival fans, Orton and Cassel are pretty much at the same level. Cassel is more mobile, but Orton is more accurate. Campbell is the worst though.

broncofan2438
08-28-2011, 04:11 PM
We know the three idiots to vote Kyle orton are raider fans

NFLBRONCO
08-28-2011, 04:13 PM
We know the three idiots to vote Kyle orton are raider fans

Not a Orton fan sorry. Definately not a Fader fan

TDmvp
08-28-2011, 04:20 PM
We know the three idiots to vote Kyle orton are raider fans

Yea sure Montrose is a Raiders fan... You know that guy who gives us camp reports from Broncos camp.

Try harder please.

Dedhed
08-28-2011, 04:37 PM
1-Rivers
2-Cassel
3-Orton
4-Campbell

Mogulseeker
08-28-2011, 04:42 PM
1-Rivers
2-Cassel
3-Orton
4-Campbell

IMO

1 - Rivers
2 - Orton
3 - Campbell
4 - Cassel

But razorwire is right, 2-4 doesn't have all that much difference at all.

Dedhed
08-28-2011, 04:46 PM
IMO

1 - Rivers
2 - Orton
3 - Campbell
4 - Cassel

But razorwire is right, 2-4 doesn't have all that much difference at all.

You're drunk if you think Campbell is better than anyone. You're drunk if you would take Orton over Cassell.

Man-Goblin
08-28-2011, 04:51 PM
It goes like this:

Campbell< Cassel<<<< Orton<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Rivers

Dedhed
08-28-2011, 05:00 PM
It goes like this:

Campbell< Cassel<<<< Orton<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Rivers

Rivers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cassell>>>Orton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Campbell.

Shoemaker
08-28-2011, 05:13 PM
Rivers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cassell>>>Orton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Campbell.

Those extra carrots make your argument extremely convincing.

Is there a reason you think Cassel is significantly superior to Orton? Their career stats are certainly wouldn't indicate that they're three orders of magnitude apart either way.

Maximus
08-28-2011, 05:18 PM
LOL this thread shows how lame people are around here. If there was any objectivity in the voting it would be just as close as their career statistics. Not 1 person who voted for Jason Campbell can point out any single area that Orton is better than Campbell. Every statistic that counts... Campbell is better! The Heblows fans complained that Orton doesn't make something out of nothing... Well Campbell is a better scrambler than orton. Heblows fans complained that Orton sucks on 3rd down... Campbell is statistically better on 3rd down conversions. Campbell is better in the RedZone, has a lower int percentage, is more mobile... etc.

From worst to first it goes like this

4. Matt Cassell
3. Kyle Orton
2. Jason Campbell
1. Phillip Rivers

And it is statistically proven pull the stats for yourselves!

Paul Finebaum PWNS!
08-28-2011, 05:21 PM
You're drunk if you would take Orton over Cassell.

I understand that Cassel has the 28:7 TD/INT ratio last year, the 11-win season in New England and the 2010 AFC West title to his credit. You can make a strong argument in his favor based on that.

But, he has never impressed me in action. He doesn't look the part at all. Take away the run and he can't complete **** over 10 yards. He is a dink-and-dunker with no balls.

I think his 2009 performance is indicative of who he is and I think this year he will revert back to that form.

It won't be long before the Ricky Stanzi era will be taking over in K.C.

Br0nc0Buster
08-28-2011, 05:22 PM
Campbell
oh and Kyle is better than Matt, his accuracy is far superior
and they both struggle when people get pressure on them

DBroncos4life
08-28-2011, 05:25 PM
LOL this thread shows how lame people are around here. If there was any objectivity in the voting it would be just as close as their career statistics. Not 1 person who voted for Jason Campbell can point out any single area that Orton is better than Campbell. Every statistic that counts... Campbell is better! The Heblows fans complained that Orton doesn't make something out of nothing... Well Campbell is a better scrambler than orton. Heblows fans complained that Orton sucks on 3rd down... Campbell is statistically better on 3rd down conversions. Campbell is better in the RedZone, has a lower int percentage, is more mobile... etc.

From worst to first it goes like this

4. Matt Cassell
3. Kyle Orton
2. Jason Campbell
1. Phillip Rivers

And it is statistically proven pull the stats for yourselves!

How would you rate these numbers?
27 wins to 37 losses
32 wins to 30 losses
24 wins to 20 losses
55 wins to 25 losses

Maximus
08-28-2011, 05:39 PM
How would you rate these numbers?
27 wins to 37 losses
32 wins to 30 losses
24 wins to 20 losses
55 wins to 25 losses

I would rank them as wins and losses. There are 53 players on a team on Sunday. The wins and losses don't boil down to 1 person. It's a team effort. However, if you want to say who's the best it's only 1 stat to be considered! If you want to weight each area wins and losses are only 1 53rd of the entire equation. So, take a look at QB ratings and tell me who's the best!

DBroncos4life
08-28-2011, 05:46 PM
I would rank them as wins and losses. There are 53 players on a team on Sunday. The wins and losses don't boil down to 1 person. It's a team effort. However, if you want to say who's the best it's only 1 stat to be considered! If you want to weight each area wins and losses are only 1 53rd of the entire equation. So, take a look at QB ratings and tell me who's the best!

I took a look at Orton's last year rating vs was better then Campbell's so I guess he is better then him. In fact every year Orton has been in the AFC west his has been better then Campbell's.

Ugly Duck
08-28-2011, 05:48 PM
We know the three idiots to vote Kyle orton are raider fans

Hey now.... sometimes its better to just not vote in a poll....

montrose
08-28-2011, 05:51 PM
I voted for Orton out of pure spite, it absolutly boggles my mind the Broncos are making the 2011 season a nice resume-tape for the Miami Dolphins 2012 opening day QB.

Well, I suppose it doesn't boggle my mind - just frusturates me they're so terrified of having another "bad season"... as if 8-8 means ****.

Tim
08-28-2011, 05:53 PM
I went with cassel, just wait till the season starts you'll see why.

Maximus
08-28-2011, 05:57 PM
I took a look at Orton's last year rating vs was better then Campbell's so I guess he is better then him. In fact every year Orton has been in the AFC west his has been better then Campbell's.

LOL when you say someone is better in sports you cannot make a decision based on 1 season. The only way to be fair is to look at entire careers. Campbell is statistically better and has the same intangibles that you Heblows worshipers rambled on and on about like a bunch of cult followers.

BTW... Campbell is Undefeated in the AFC West statistically. That is definitely better than Orton. Statistically He was better than Orton in the NFC. LOL you're grasping at straws.

Rock Chalk
08-28-2011, 05:59 PM
LOL when you say someone is better in sports you cannot make a decision based on 1 season. The only way to be fair is to look at entire careers. Campbell is statistically better and has the same intangibles that you Heblows worshipers rambled on and on about like a bunch of cult followers.

Campbell has statistically had better run games and defenses to help him out. When Campbell faces a season long average of 3rd and 8 on 3rd downs and has a run game that gets 1 or 2 yards a down consistenly, and he can put up better numbers than Orton did last year, then you can call me and tell me I told you so. Until then, Campbell is just another piece of Raider trash that senile old **** Al Davis has.

Maximus
08-28-2011, 06:04 PM
Campbell has statistically had better run games and defenses to help him out. When Campbell faces a season long average of 3rd and 8 on 3rd downs and has a run game that gets 1 or 2 yards a down consistenly, and he can put up better numbers than Orton did last year, then you can call me and tell me I told you so. Until then, Campbell is just another piece of Raider trash that senile old **** Al Davis has.

Ok blame that on your GM's Don't make excuses for your ****ty QB play. I'm not saying Campbell is the greatest QB. I'm saying he's better than Orton Statistically and for the Heblowites... He has the make something out of nothing intangibles that Orton lacks!

I understand you donk fans don't have any ground to stand on when you say Orton is better... It's pure hate. It's ok we all know Campbell is a notch better!

Mogulseeker
08-28-2011, 06:06 PM
LOL this thread shows how lame people are around here. If there was any objectivity in the voting it would be just as close as their career statistics. Not 1 person who voted for Jason Campbell can point out any single area that Orton is better than Campbell. Every statistic that counts... Campbell is better! The Heblows fans complained that Orton doesn't make something out of nothing... Well Campbell is a better scrambler than orton. Heblows fans complained that Orton sucks on 3rd down... Campbell is statistically better on 3rd down conversions. Campbell is better in the RedZone, has a lower int percentage, is more mobile... etc.

From worst to first it goes like this

4. Matt Cassell
3. Kyle Orton
2. Jason Campbell
1. Phillip Rivers

And it is statistically proven pull the stats for yourselves!

This. Except I would still rank Orton over Campbell... but I would rank Campbell over Cassel definitely.

Matt Cassel is garbage.

Jay3
08-28-2011, 06:08 PM
I think Orton's better than Campbell.

DrFate
08-28-2011, 06:10 PM
Those threads always amaze for their utter lack of analysis. Orton and Campbell are essentially they same player numbers wise:

Orton - 58% completion, 79.6 career rating, 6.5 yards per pass, 261 rushing yards, 1.479 td/int

Record 32-29-0

Campbell - 60.8% completion, 82.6 career rating, 6.7 yards per pass, 1008 rushing yards, 1.478 td/int

Record 27-37-0

(completion percentage, career rating, yards per pass, and td/int ratio are all nearly the same, plus Campbell is a rushing threat)

You can make the case that Campbell's are even more impressive due to playing on consistently poor teams. (or you can make the argument that Orton has a slightly better win/loss record) :)

Claiming that Orton is vastly better simply ignores the facts.

Agamemnon
08-28-2011, 06:17 PM
All three are sub-par for starting NFL QBs. Beyond that it's like comparing turds and trying to decide which one has the most corn in it.

MVP-06
08-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Campbell and its not even close.

This

Mogulseeker
08-28-2011, 07:00 PM
Stats have to be taken into account. As do the importance of the player on the team as well as typical things like mechanics.

Mogulseeker
08-28-2011, 07:03 PM
I guess there is no barometer to determine how we define "better" .... I'd take Orton over Campbell and Cassel... and I'd take Campbell over Cassel.

Then again, if we're doing it that way, I wouldn't take Rivers either. He's good, but I don't want an asshole like that on my team. The Rivers/Roethlisberger douchebag type is undesirable.... I'd rather be an 9-7 team than have them and get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs every year a la Rivers and the Chargers.

razorwire77
08-28-2011, 07:07 PM
It's all who's the tallest midget semantics after Rivers anyway.

enjolras
08-28-2011, 07:07 PM
I guess there is no barometer to determine how we define "better" .... I'd take Orton over Campbell and Cassel... and I'd take Campbell over Cassel.

Then again, if we're doing it that way, I wouldn't take Rivers either. He's good, but I don't want an a-hole like that on my team. The Rivers/Roethlisberger douchebag type is undesirable.... I'd rather be an 9-7 team than have them and get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs every year a la Rivers and the Chargers.

Just curious, how does that apply to Roethlisberger? Do you not take him? After all, he has the rings.

AlienBronco
08-28-2011, 07:25 PM
Kyle Orton is a career loser against AFC West division rivals, so the sooner we part way with him the faster we will be able to return to the playoffs!

go_broncos
08-28-2011, 07:35 PM
Kyle Orton is the worst QB in NFL

ohiobronco2
08-28-2011, 07:38 PM
Where is the Terrelle Pryor option? Hilarious! Raiders, such morons.

Shoemaker
08-28-2011, 08:14 PM
Kyle Orton is the worst QB in NFL

Did Tavaris Jackson and Alex Smith switch positions over the past two days?

FADERPROOF
08-28-2011, 08:15 PM
LOL this thread shows how lame people are around here. If there was any objectivity in the voting it would be just as close as their career statistics. Not 1 person who voted for Jason Campbell can point out any single area that Orton is better than Campbell. Every statistic that counts... Campbell is better! The Heblows fans complained that Orton doesn't make something out of nothing... Well Campbell is a better scrambler than orton. Heblows fans complained that Orton sucks on 3rd down... Campbell is statistically better on 3rd down conversions. Campbell is better in the RedZone, has a lower int percentage, is more mobile... etc.

From worst to first it goes like this

4. Matt Cassell
3. Kyle Orton
2. Jason Campbell
1. Phillip Rivers

And it is statistically proven pull the stats for yourselves!

When Al Davis dies, I truly hope he leaves you in charge of running the franchise.

Steve Sewell
08-28-2011, 08:27 PM
It's all who's the tallest midget semantics after Rivers anyway.

Yeah its like if we were to have this argument in the early 90's:

"Hay guise who's the worst in the division; Stan Humphries, Jay Schroeder, or Steve DeBerg? lol"

strafen
08-28-2011, 08:54 PM
I voted for Orton out of pure spite, it absolutly boggles my mind the Broncos are making the 2011 season a nice resume-tape for the Miami Dolphins 2012 opening day QB.

Well, I suppose it doesn't boggle my mind - just frusturates me they're so terrified of having another "bad season"... as if 8-8 means ****.This x 100000000

You know what...
This is what we need as a franchise. We need a franchise QB period. No surprise there to anyone.

Whether Tebow is or is not the QBOTF, we need to know NOW!
Throw Tebow in there and let's see if he's the guy.
Worst case scenario, we sucked with Tebow, and we just punched our ticket into the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Best case scenario, Tebow learns on the job, proves everybody wrong, and we've got ourselves a QB that would be even better going into the next season.

Orton will keep us average with no chance of going anywhere, let alone a shot at the best QB to come out of college perhaps since John Elway himself.

We could afford to have a rebuilding season, this is a rebuilding team, we've got nothing to lose, but to have Orton in there so we can have 7-8 wins for the sake of pride, is stupid and dumb

In the meantime, Andrew Luck could end up a Raider, we'd still have no QB and we would still be wondering if Tebow will be the guy, while more drama lingers on.

It's frustraing. It sucks...

McDman
08-28-2011, 09:02 PM
If you voted Orton you're either trolling or absolutely moronic.

Maximus
08-28-2011, 09:04 PM
Those threads always amaze for their utter lack of analysis. Orton and Campbell are essentially they same player numbers wise:

Orton - 58% completion, 87.5 career rating, 6.5 yards per pass, 261 rushing yards, 1.479 td/int

Record 32-29-0

Campbell - 60.8% completion, 84.5 career rating, 6.7 yards per pass, 1008 rushing yards, 1.478 td/int

Record 27-37-0

(completion percentage, career rating, yards per pass, and td/int ratio are all nearly the same, plus Campbell is a rushing threat)

You can make the case that Campbell's are even more impressive due to playing on consistently poor teams. (or you can make the argument that Orton has a slightly better win/loss record) :)

Claiming that Orton is vastly better simply ignores the facts.

Your stats are wrong you looked at last seasons QB rating

Ortons QB rating is 79.6 for his career campbell is 82.6 for his career

errand
08-28-2011, 09:06 PM
We know the three idiots to vote Kyle orton are raider fans

You evidently haven't been reading this message board the past few months

strafen
08-28-2011, 09:07 PM
If you voted Orton you're either trolling or absolutely moronic.Why?
Because he's having a great preseason?
I've seen the guy play enough to know he's terrible.
Put him right now as the starting QB for the Bills, or Seattle, and he will look even worse...

vonqkilla
08-28-2011, 09:15 PM
Id take tebow starting over all 3.

GreatBronco16
08-28-2011, 09:46 PM
Orton and Campbell. Are you guys really arguring who is the better of the two mediocre QBs???



All I can say is......Hilarious!

strafen
08-28-2011, 10:22 PM
Orton and Campbell. Are you guys really arguring who is the better of the two mediocre QBs???



All I can say is......Hilarious!

For broncos "fans", that's the new standard by which we evaluate QB's that best suit our team...
We're proud to have Orton as our QB, damn it!!! ROFL!

NFLBRONCO
08-28-2011, 10:49 PM
Sand Cassel has hardly impressed

Broncos4Life
08-28-2011, 11:06 PM
Orton is better than Campbell! Madden 12 player ratings say so!
Orton 82. Plus an 85 accuracy and 83 awareness.
Campbell 81. 78 accuracy and 72 awareness.

END OF THREAD!

HAT
08-28-2011, 11:29 PM
This x 100000000

You know what...
This is what we need as a franchise. We need a franchise QB period. No surprise there to anyone.

Whether Tebow is or is not the QBOTF, we need to know NOW!
Throw Tebow in there and let's see if he's the guy.
Worst case scenario, we sucked with Tebow, and we just punched our ticket into the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Best case scenario, Tebow learns on the job, proves everybody wrong, and we've got ourselves a QB that would be even better going into the next season.

Orton will keep us average with no chance of going anywhere, let alone a shot at the best QB to come out of college perhaps since John Elway himself.

We could afford to have a rebuilding season, this is a rebuilding team, we've got nothing to lose, but to have Orton in there so we can have 7-8 wins for the sake of pride, is stupid and dumb

In the meantime, Andrew Luck could end up a Raider, we'd still have no QB and we would still be wondering if Tebow will be the guy, while more drama lingers on.

It's frustraing. It sucks...

Sure dragster....because there's no chance a Tebow led Broncos could also go 7-9 ish?

We all know that you and jhzz were pretty pissed when Mcgruder came around to take your guys' dumbest poster status away but you don't need to try so hard to get the title back.

Inkana7
08-28-2011, 11:36 PM
For broncos "fans", that's the new standard by which we evaluate QB's that best suit our team...
We're proud to have Orton as our QB, damn it!!! ROFL!

Yeah rooting for your team's players is really stupid.

cutthemdown
08-28-2011, 11:50 PM
This x 100000000

You know what...
This is what we need as a franchise. We need a franchise QB period. No surprise there to anyone.

Whether Tebow is or is not the QBOTF, we need to know NOW!
Throw Tebow in there and let's see if he's the guy.
Worst case scenario, we sucked with Tebow, and we just punched our ticket into the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Best case scenario, Tebow learns on the job, proves everybody wrong, and we've got ourselves a QB that would be even better going into the next season.

Orton will keep us average with no chance of going anywhere, let alone a shot at the best QB to come out of college perhaps since John Elway himself.

We could afford to have a rebuilding season, this is a rebuilding team, we've got nothing to lose, but to have Orton in there so we can have 7-8 wins for the sake of pride, is stupid and dumb

In the meantime, Andrew Luck could end up a Raider, we'd still have no QB and we would still be wondering if Tebow will be the guy, while more drama lingers on.

It's frustraing. It sucks...

It's obvious at this point Tebow too raw to start in the NFL. Maybe next yr. No reason to let him ruin the season just to make a few fans that think this yr a waste if he doesn't start. With no offseason of training with the new coaches it was a long shot he would beat out Orton.

KCStud
08-28-2011, 11:52 PM
Rivers is by far the best and Campbell is the worst.
Campbell had a lot of weapons last year and he still was below average.
Orton has a good arm, but he underachieves at times.
Cassel is a game manager. He is as good as the talent around him. Give him a good cast and he puts up good numbers. Even with a crappy team in his first year in KC he still had decent stats.

cutthemdown
08-28-2011, 11:53 PM
Orton sort of a scapegoat for our losing. True he isn't talented enough to overcome a bad running game, worst defense in the NFL etc etc but I'm still not convinced he would blow it for a good team. If the defense plays well, special teams doesn't turn ball over or give up tds, the running backs make a few nice runs a game, Orton could win games.

cutthemdown
08-28-2011, 11:55 PM
Rivers is by far the best and Campbell is the worst.
Campbell had a lot of weapons last year and he still was below average.
Orton has a good arm, but he underachieves at times.
Cassel is a game manager. He is as good as the talent around him. Give him a good cast and he puts up good numbers. Even with a crappy team in his first year in KC he still had decent stats.

Pretty much spot on. Rivers is far above the other qbs, and the battle for worst also not close. Stats aside just watch Campbell play. He is friggin horrid.

cutthemdown
08-29-2011, 12:01 AM
One stat that is surprising is that Campbell has lost less fumbles the Orton. Both put ball on the ground to much but Campbell has done it over 40 times, its just he often falls right back on it so he hasn't lost as many as you would think. Still Campbell drops the ball almost once a game. I've never seen a QB who puts the ball on the ground more without getting hit.

DENVERDUI55
08-29-2011, 12:02 AM
I would rank them as wins and losses. There are 53 players on a team on Sunday. The wins and losses don't boil down to 1 person. It's a team effort. However, if you want to say who's the best it's only 1 stat to be considered! If you want to weight each area wins and losses are only 1 53rd of the entire equation. So, take a look at QB ratings and tell me who's the best!

You pull the QB rating stat. LOL QB is the one position in all of sports that W/L record means something. Elway had a terrible QB rating for a HOFer but was one of the best ever. Who is the best in a Gang banging Raider fan's mine. Pull the QB rating BS stat and show us who is the best with and without it.

cutthemdown
08-29-2011, 12:12 AM
Campbell better hope he can just hand it off again all yr. Campbell could never throw the ball as many times as Orton did last yr.

Doggcow
08-29-2011, 01:06 AM
Orton is better than Campbell! Madden 12 player ratings say so!
Orton 82. Plus an 85 accuracy and 83 awareness.
Campbell 81. 78 accuracy and 72 awareness.

END OF THREAD!

Awareness is a completely worthless stat that only modifies a players overall rating (doesn't actually do anything), so if I was purely playing to win a game of Madden, the rest of Campbell's stats would make him like an 84 in comparison to Orton...

DrFate
08-29-2011, 06:52 AM
Your stats are wrong you looked at last seasons QB rating

Ortons QB rating is 79.6 for his career campbell is 82.6 for his career

Corrected :)

Thanks for the heads up

DrFate
08-29-2011, 06:54 AM
Campbell better hope he can just hand it off again all yr. Campbell could never throw the ball as many times as Orton did last yr.

Except he's already done it. Twice.

Orton had 498 attempts last year. Campbell had 506 in 2008 and 507 in 2009.

I really wonder if you people have access to the Internet...

BroncoInferno
08-29-2011, 07:16 AM
Except he's already done it. Twice.

Orton had 498 attempts last year. Campbell had 506 in 2008 and 507 in 2009.

I really wonder if you people have access to the Internet...

It's a bit disingenuous to look at career numbers when this is about who is better NOW.

Campbell and Orton each started 28 games the last two seasons (Campbell started all 16 games in 2009, 12 in 2010; Orton started 15 in 2009, 13 last season). Orton is better in most every statistical category over that stretch of games. More TD passes (41 to 33), fewer INTs even though he threw 203 more passes (21 Ints on 1039 att vs. 23 Ints on 836 att), more yards (7455 to 6005), identical YPA (7.1 per attempt each). I'd say Orton has been better over the last two seasons.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 07:22 AM
It's a bit disingenuous to look at career numbers when this is about who is better NOW.

Campbell and Orton each started 28 games the last two seasons (Campbell started all 16 games in 2009, 12 in 2010; Orton started 15 in 2009, 13 last season). Orton is better in most every statistical category over that stretch of games. More TD passes (41 to 33), fewer INTs even though he threw 203 more passes (21 Ints on 1039 att vs. 23 Ints on 836 att), more yards (7455 to 6005), identical YPA (7.1 per attempt each). I'd say it's clear that Orton has been better over the last two seasons.

This is a fairly well developed post with real numbers to back up the opinion.

BANNED!!

Seriously though - I'm not on the stump putting Campbell in Canton. Based on the entire body of work, from where I sit anyway, they are the same player. (Campbell has better wheels) Based on Orton's time in Denver vs. Campbell's time in OAK, Orton has been better. But we all know that Oakland is a very poorly run franchise and that Orton benefitted from playing in the pass-happy McDaniels system.

I think if you swapped Orton for Campbell the overall team results would be a wash.

strafen
08-29-2011, 07:25 AM
Yeah rooting for your team's players is really stupid.

Yeah Mr. Big time Fan.
Let's support mediocricy just because he's on our team.
I see your point.
I was supporting Richard Quinn and Jarvis Moss up until they were with the team. I'm a fan!!! :wave:

DrFate
08-29-2011, 07:30 AM
because there's no chance a Tebow led Broncos could also go 7-9 ish?

There's a good chance. What's your point again?

Orton is gone after this year. Tebow's future is up in the air. Why not play a guy who MIGHT be here if this year is a wash anyway?

BroncoInferno
08-29-2011, 07:30 AM
This is a fairly well developed post with real numbers to back up the opinion.

BANNED!!

Seriously though - I'm not on the stump putting Campbell in Canton. Based on the entire body of work, from where I sit anyway, they are the same player. (Campbell has better wheels) Based on Orton's time in Denver vs. Campbell's time in OAK, Orton has been better. But we all know that Oakland is a very poorly run franchise and that Orton benefitted from playing in the pass-happy McDaniels system.

I think if you swapped Orton for Campbell the overall team results would be a wash.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Orton is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I'm also in the camp that would prefer to start Tebow now, not because I'm conviced of his greatness, but so we can see what we have with him. I do think we are spinning our wheels with Orton. That said, I think the hyperbole about him being god awful is a bit ridiculous. He has plenty of short-comings, but his performance as a Bronco has been pretty solid overall, I think. Certainly not spectacular, but solid.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 07:32 AM
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Orton is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I'm also in the camp that would prefer to start Tebow now, not because I'm conviced of his greatness, but so we can see what we have with him. I do think we are spinning our wheels with Orton. That said, I think the hyperbole about him being god awful is a bit ridiculous. He has plenty of short-comings, but his performance as a Bronco has been pretty solid overall, I think. Certainly not spectacular, but solid.

I think the hyperbole that he is head/shoulders above Campbell is ridiculous as well. :)

I'm pretty firmly anti-Orton - but you are certainly correct in your above assessment.

BroncoInferno
08-29-2011, 07:36 AM
I think the hyperbole that he is head/shoulders above Campbell is ridiculous as well. :)

I'm pretty firmly anti-Orton - but you are certainly correct in your above assessment.

Campbell is sort of an odd case to me. He looks so bad and clueless when you watch him play. But then you check out the stats, and the numbers are actually fairly decent. So, maybe he gets a bit of a bum rap, too. But, yeah, I wouldn't say looking at a statistical comparison that you could say Orton is worlds better than Campbell. Better, though.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 07:40 AM
He looks so bad and clueless when you watch him play.

I see the same thing when I watch Orton play. :)

Campbell got bounced around his entire career when it came to offensive systems and coordinators, etc. Orton has had the benefit of much more stability as well as playing with a much better defense in Chicago.

BroncoInferno
08-29-2011, 07:49 AM
I see the same thing when I watch Orton play. :)

I don't see that at all. Orton looks to me like he knows what he's doing out there from a mental standpoint. His issue is that he has phyical limitations that cause his game to break down when things aren't going well around him.

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 07:50 AM
I see the same thing when I watch Orton play. :)

Campbell got bounced around his entire career when it came to offensive systems and coordinators, etc. Orton has had the benefit of much more stability as well as playing with a much better defense in Chicago.


....'cause having/playing with a good defense makes a QB better.....ROFL!

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 07:52 AM
I don't see that at all. Orton looks to me like he knows what he's doing out there from a mental standpoint. His issue is that he has phyical limitations that cause his game to break down when things aren't going well around him.


.....and the opposite can be said about Tebow.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 07:56 AM
I don't see that at all. Orton looks to me like he knows what he's doing out there from a mental standpoint. His issue is that he has phyical limitations that cause his game to break down when things aren't going well around him.

I'm not trying to persuade you. :)

Orton is a classic 'drop back and fall down' quarterback. That's why he had little/no interest from the rest of the league when franchises decided to get players like Tavaris Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, and Kevin Kolb when Orton was on the market.

Orton is a marginal NFL starter. Jason Campbell is too. Homers on this board claiming that Orton is better by a wide margin are ignoring the facts (which you and I have provided in detail)

BroncoInferno
08-29-2011, 08:04 AM
.....and the opposite can be said about Tebow.

Yes, but that's not unusal for young QBs. It's not unreasonable to think he could improve. It's unlikely that Orton will improve.

Listen, I'm no Tebow nuthugger. I didn't like the pick when we made it, and I am far from sold. However, I think he showed enough promise in his 3 starts last season to give the fanbase reasonable hope for his future. I'd rather find out what Tebow can do than spin our wheels with Orton. If he sucks, fine. We will know it and can move on. But wouldn't you rather know NOW than have to go through this again next offseason? If Tebow DOES suck, then waiting until next season to find that out will essentially be wasting 2 seasons. We find out now, we can go ahead and get the process of finding a real franchise QB going. But I think it's pretty clear that Orton is not the long-term answer.

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 08:05 AM
I'm not trying to persuade you. :)

Orton is a classic 'drop back and fall down' quarterback. That's why he had little/no interest from the rest of the league when franchises decided to get players like Tavaris Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, and Kevin Kolb when Orton was on the market.

Orton is a marginal NFL starter. Jason Campbell is too. Homers on this board claiming that Orton is better by a wide margin are ignoring the facts (which you and I have provided in detail)


You wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in the puss.

alkemical
08-29-2011, 08:14 AM
I'm not trying to persuade you. :)

Orton is a classic 'drop back and fall down' quarterback. That's why he had little/no interest from the rest of the league when franchises decided to get players like Tavaris Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, and Kevin Kolb when Orton was on the market.

Orton is a marginal NFL starter. Jason Campbell is too. Homers on this board claiming that Orton is better by a wide margin are ignoring the facts (which you and I have provided in detail)

Just a question though, not anything else: Wasn't Kolb the only one that was under contract in that list?

Going for guys that are, avg at best as a FA is better than giving up a 2nd rounder for someone of Orton's talent level. It's still a question of 'value', and in this case - perhaps a higher first round pick is worth more than Kyle Orton.

bronco militia
08-29-2011, 08:36 AM
damn...probably a tie bwtween cambell and sand cassel

bendog
08-29-2011, 08:50 AM
damn...probably a tie bwtween cambell and sand cassel

yeah. I don't like Orton, but if he throws 40 times, your team still has a chance to win. Damn shame they couldn't trade him, though.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 09:07 AM
Just a question though, not anything else: Wasn't Kolb the only one that was under contract in that list?

Going for guys that are, avg at best as a FA is better than giving up a 2nd rounder for someone of Orton's talent level. It's still a question of 'value', and in this case - perhaps a higher first round pick is worth more than Kyle Orton.

Orton could have been had for a 3rd (according to most reports)

You are correct in your assessment, however - the teams decided they'd rather have a 3rd + Jackson/Hasselbeck/etc. than Orton (although to be fair, his reported asking price of a Kolb-esque contract likely did more to drive down his value than simple raw draft picks)

orange 4 life
08-29-2011, 10:34 AM
Campbell and Cassel are below average.
Orton is above average.
Rivers is elite.

'Nuff said.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 10:41 AM
Orton is above average.


No, he's not

orange 4 life
08-29-2011, 10:50 AM
No, he's not

Yes, he is.

jhns
08-29-2011, 10:54 AM
Yes, he is.

Above average enough to lead the 22nd ranked offense in points last season? This was with the same players that Tebow led to the seventh best offense by points, so you can't really claim Orton had that bad of an offense around him. A rookie QB that can't throw outplayed him...

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 10:59 AM
15 out of 32 is above avg.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 11:05 AM
Yes, he is.

There are 32 starting QBs in the league

If I can name 16 better than Orton he is, by definition, below average. Would you agree?

Maximus
08-29-2011, 11:08 AM
Campbell and Cassel are below average.
Orton is above average.
Rivers is elite.

'Nuff said.

LOL Everyone on that list is middle of the road except Rivers. rivers is a top 10 or top 5 QB.

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 11:13 AM
There are 32 starting QBs in the league

If I can name 16 better than Orton he is, by definition, below average. Would you agree?

NO, because you really don't ****ing matter in the grand scheme of things.

NFL.com has him rated at 15 out of 32, so he IS above the avg.

bronco militia
08-29-2011, 11:14 AM
average and above average are not elite, so who gives a ****

Maximus
08-29-2011, 11:16 AM
It's a bit disingenuous to look at career numbers when this is about who is better NOW.

Campbell and Orton each started 28 games the last two seasons (Campbell started all 16 games in 2009, 12 in 2010; Orton started 15 in 2009, 13 last season). Orton is better in most every statistical category over that stretch of games. More TD passes (41 to 33), fewer INTs even though he threw 203 more passes (21 Ints on 1039 att vs. 23 Ints on 836 att), more yards (7455 to 6005), identical YPA (7.1 per attempt each). I'd say Orton has been better over the last two seasons.

You kind of prove yourself wrong with your statement. They both missed games at some point so all of that has to be taken into consideration. We could remove those years and average everything up from a 16 game point of reference. However, that's not how their careers happened. The second point is. If we were to just look at 1 year of performance and make a judgement you would have to account for all other factors like injuries to other players etc.

For instance if you have a key injury to your RB or WR the QB might throw more or less depending on that situation. Therefore looking at the entire career is the only objective way to make the comparison.

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 11:17 AM
average and above average are not elite, so who gives a ****


Well, la ti da, I guess we are just not elite. What a bummer! We'll just have to suck our way to the play-offs and beyond. Cause NONE of the QBs on the roster are elite.

We Suck
Time to find another team
Right???

bendog
08-29-2011, 11:27 AM
Well, la ti da, I guess we are just not elite. What a bummer! We'll just have to suck our way to the play-offs and beyond. Cause NONE of the QBs on the roster are elite.

We Suck
Time to find another team
Right???

Thank God for the Saints on Sundays. And Ole Miss is painful on Saturdays. But the beer is cold.

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 11:37 AM
Thank God for the Saints on Sundays. And Ole Miss is painful on Saturdays. But the beer is cold.


LOL

LonghornBronco
08-29-2011, 11:41 AM
Their 2010 qb rating is as follows:

Phyllis: 101.8
Matt "White" Cassel: 93
Kyle "Neck Beard" Orton: 87.5
Jason "Soup is good food" Campbell: 84.5

All four in the top 18, not bad.

bronco militia
08-29-2011, 11:49 AM
Well, la ti da, I guess we are just not elite. What a bummer! We'll just have to suck our way to the play-offs and beyond. Cause NONE of the QBs on the roster are elite.

We Suck
Time to find another team
Right???

never say never, but the 2011 Broncos are not destined for the playoffs.

especially if/when orton is injured.

BroncosSR
08-29-2011, 11:56 AM
....'cause having/playing with a good defense makes a QB better.....ROFL!

IMO, Roethlisberger has made a career out of this.

Arkie
08-29-2011, 11:59 AM
Cassell (McD's prize) and Orton (McD's consolation prize) are in the below average range between 16-24 and Campbell is at the bottom of the 32 starting QBs.

TailgateNut
08-29-2011, 12:10 PM
Cassell (McD's prize) and Orton (McD's consolation prize) are in the below average range between 16-24 and Campbell is at the bottom of the 32 starting QBs.

NFL.com disagrees with you.

2010 rating for KO =15th in the league
2011 to date rating =3rd in the leaguee just behind "Cry me a Rivers" and Aaron Rodgers.

strafen
08-29-2011, 12:11 PM
Campbell and Cassel are below average.
Orton is above average.Rivers is elite.

'Nuff said.

Based on preseason games, he is...based on his whole career, he's not...

Maximus
08-29-2011, 12:28 PM
I'm not trying to persuade you. :)

Orton is a classic 'drop back and fall down' quarterback. That's why he had little/no interest from the rest of the league when franchises decided to get players like Tavaris Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, and Kevin Kolb when Orton was on the market.

Orton is a marginal NFL starter. Jason Campbell is too. Homers on this board claiming that Orton is better by a wide margin are ignoring the facts (which you and I have provided in detail)

The highlighted portion is exactly what i'm talking about. I'm not saying JC is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the voting pointed out blatant homerism. Statistically they are almost twins. Yet at the same time Campbell's stats are better in some areas. So, it has to come down to intangibles or things that one fan prefers over another.

If this is true and it's the intangibles, what are the intangibles? Scrambling, turnover ratio, redzone, leadership...? If you've never seen any of them play how do you choose? For the Tebowites who voted Campbell as the worst; you are the biggest homers of everyone. The argument has been he makes something out of nothing and improvises. If this is your line of thought on Tebow, then you should be voting against Orton because he's the least mobile and improvises less than Campbell and Cassell.

Those that would choose Cassell over Campbell, are flawed because of the statistical argument. If a person votes logically they should have Cassell the worst with Campbell and Orton almost tied. The point is... There is blatant illogical homerism with this poll. My overall point on the whole illogical selection and debate as a whole is based on the fact that Orton and Campbell can both be Superbowl QB's.

Before you chuckle and say Max is a ****ing nut... Take a look at Trent Dilfer's career statistics. I can tell you without looking that Dilfer is worse than Campbell and Orton. Yet, he has a SB as a starting QB!

So, all the moaning about Orton is unfounded! The donks obviously have problems in different areas... Running Game, D-Line... Mostly the running game. Why else is Orton struggling inside the redzone?

DrFate
08-29-2011, 01:14 PM
Dilfers career numbers are terrible - Campbell and Orton are HOF players next to Dilfer. He wasn't even the starter when the season started (Tony Banks was) and he was GONE after winning the big game.

It's all homerism. Go to any other team's board in the league and they'll tell you that Orton and Campbell are the same guy. I have friends who aren't Broncos fans and I can't say stuff like 'Orton is awesome' without getting laughed at.

Maximus
08-29-2011, 05:36 PM
Dilfers career numbers are terrible - Campbell and Orton are HOF players next to Dilfer. He wasn't even the starter when the season started (Tony Banks was) and he was GONE after winning the big game.

It's all homerism. Go to any other team's board in the league and they'll tell you that Orton and Campbell are the same guy. I have friends who aren't Broncos fans and I can't say stuff like 'Orton is awesome' without getting laughed at.

Exactly! I can't even talk at length about Jason Campbell with out being dismissed or redirected to other players on the team! Both JC and Orton are stop gap QB's you keep them around and win as much as possible until you find a franchise QB.

DrFate
08-29-2011, 05:39 PM
Exactly! I can't even talk at length about Jason Campbell with out being dismissed or redirected to other players on the team! Both JC and Orton are stop gap QB's you keep them around and win as much as possible until you find a franchise QB.

Once Orton is a Dolphin the exact same guys who hang off his jock today will tell you what a scrub he is tomorrow. It's typical Mane homerism.

Campbell is a marginal guy. Orton is a marginal guy. People who tell you one is clearly better than the other is ignoring the truth.

CEH
08-29-2011, 06:10 PM
Last night they showed some stats of the avg QB rating, Completion Pct , TD ratio etc since 2006 and Campbell match it exactly stat for stat. Campbell is your average QB NFL. Orton is just above average

Josh's rating since he had the opportunity or tried to aquire all three

#1 Cassell
#2 Orton
#3 Campbell

Maximus
08-29-2011, 06:36 PM
Last night they showed some stats of the avg QB rating, Completion Pct , TD ratio etc since 2006 and Campbell match it exactly stat for stat. Campbell is your average QB NFL. Orton is just above average

Josh's rating since he had the opportunity or tried to aquire all three

#1 Cassell
#2 Orton
#3 Campbell

Read the career stats and weep... Orton is not above average. Funny Espin has the Quarterbacks in three groups Top 10, Middle 11-20, Bottom 21-32... Visual evidence for you Son!

Bronx33
08-29-2011, 06:40 PM
Read the career stats and weep... Orton is not above average. Funny Espin has the Quarterbacks in three groups Top 10, Middle 11-20, Bottom 21-32... Visual evidence for you Son!


I take it since you're in NY you avoided all the shootings in SF ;)

GreatBronco16
08-29-2011, 09:41 PM
never say never, but the 2011 Broncos are not destined for the playoffs.

especially if/when orton is injured.

They aren't destined for them even if he's healthy for 16 games.

errand
08-29-2011, 11:08 PM
There's a good chance. What's your point again?

Orton is gone after this year. Tebow's future is up in the air. Why not play a guy who MIGHT be here if this year is a wash anyway?

You act like the denver broncos can't re-sign kyle orton.... then again reading the stuff that you guys post who would blame him for leaving.

I'm sorry but I personally would freakin laugh my ass off if the broncos win 10 or more games this year orton re-signs..... just to watch how many your heads f****** explode

errand
08-29-2011, 11:18 PM
I'm not trying to persuade you. :)

Orton is a classic 'drop back and fall down' quarterback. That's why he had little/no interest from the rest of the league when franchises decided to get players like Tavaris Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, and Kevin Kolb when Orton was on the market.

Orton is a marginal NFL starter. Jason Campbell is too. Homers on this board claiming that Orton is better by a wide margin are ignoring the facts (which you and I have provided in detail)

Well let's see kevin kolb was under more affordable contract and the cardinals got rid of a potential headache in Cromartie... Jackson was acquired because his former offensive coordinator and sidney rice was signed And he allegedly was familiar with the seahawks offense..... The titans had already drafted locker, and just wanted an older vet to groom him....not keep him on the bench.

ZONA
08-30-2011, 03:28 AM
It goes like this:

Campbell< Cassel<<<< Orton<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Rivers

I'd say that's about right. When Rivers gets fired up, he can kill you. After he had a slow start against the Cards and thew a pick 6 to Patrick Peterson, he picked on the rookie all night long and destroyed him.

I'm SOOOOOOOOOOO happy we picked Miller instead of Peterson.

cutthemdown
08-30-2011, 05:14 AM
I'd say that's about right. When Rivers gets fired up, he can kill you. After he had a slow start against the Cards and thew a pick 6 to Patrick Peterson, he picked on the rookie all night long and destroyed him.

I'm SOOOOOOOOOOO happy we picked Miller instead of Peterson.

Yeah I agree. I think it was Dareus or Miller. Dareus looks pretty stout as well though. I think we could have been happy with either. No doubt Dareus would step right in as a starter as well as Miller has.

But linebackers can play longer so if they are both studs, there is a good chance Miller has 2-3 more stud yrs.

I have no worries about team. I know we will be good again. Elway is raw and learning, but made no stupid blunders. Orton probably never should have been on the trade block, he may have dodged a bullit there, we will see soon enough. I think he will draft good hard nosed football players.

We will have 3 starting rookies. If they pay out and start for a number of yrs that is a pretty good haul.

El Guapo
08-30-2011, 06:01 AM
Cassel; because if it weren't for him Cutter would still be our QB and this whole Orton/Tebow/Quinn debacle on the mane wouldn't exist and life would be much happier.


















Just kidding. :P

strafen
08-30-2011, 06:54 AM
I'm not trying to persuade you. :)

Orton is a classic 'drop back and fall down' quarterback. That's why he had little/no interest from the rest of the league when franchises decided to get players like Tavaris Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, and Kevin Kolb when Orton was on the market. Orton is a marginal NFL starter. Jason Campbell is too. Homers on this board claiming that Orton is better by a wide margin are ignoring the facts (which you and I have provided in detail)What's more revealing than that. /end thread

strafen
08-30-2011, 06:56 AM
Well let's see kevin kolb was under more affordable contract and the cardinals got rid of a potential headache in Cromartie... Jackson was acquired because his former offensive coordinator and sidney rice was signed And he allegedly was familiar with the seahawks offense..... The titans had already drafted locker, and just wanted an older vet to groom him....not keep him on the bench.
If there was a QB like, Drew Brees per-se in the market, do you think Seattle would've still gotten Tavaris, Arizona Kolb?
Heck, include Miami and any other team that were desperate for a QB.

Get real bud. Orton is amongst the lower tier of QB's in the NFL. He is who he is. He flat out sucks. When teams think Tavaris Jackson gives them the est option, that just tells you what the rest of the league thinks of Orton

Hilarious!LOLROFL!

BroncoInferno
08-30-2011, 07:07 AM
Read the career stats and weep... Orton is not above average. Funny Espin has the Quarterbacks in three groups Top 10, Middle 11-20, Bottom 21-32... Visual evidence for you Son!

Over the past two seasons, Orton has been statistically better than Campbell, as I've already shown. Same number of starts (28), more TDs (41 to 33), more yards (7455 to 6005), fewer INTs despite throwing 203 more passes (21 to 23). He's been better. It's disingenuous to just look at career stats when the debate is about who is better NOW. Clearly, Orton is. Not worlds better by any means, but better, and the stats show that.

BroncoInferno
08-30-2011, 07:10 AM
If there was a QB like, Drew Brees per-se in the market, do you think Seattle would've still gotten Tavaris, Arizona Kolb?
Heck, include Miami and any other team that were desperate for a QB.

Get real bud. Orton is amongst the lower tier of QB's in the NFL. He is who he is. He flat out sucks. When teams think Tavaris Jackson gives them the est option, that just tells you what the rest of the league thinks of Orton

Hilarious!LOLROFL!

The Seahawks had just given up significant compensation for Charlie Whitehurst last offseason, so I'm sure they weren't in any hurry to give up more picks the very next season. Jackson did not cost them anything to acquire because he was a UFA. If you can't see that distinction, I don't know what to tell you. You're not going to find anybody (maybe outside the Seahawks organization) who would tell you that Jackson is better than Orton, or even close.

DrFate
08-30-2011, 01:51 PM
The Seahawks had just given up significant compensation for Charlie Whitehurst last offseason,

Not certain I agree with the 'significant' assessment, but here are the details for those interested.

The Seahawks swapped the 40th pick in the second round with San Diego's 60th pick and also will send the Chargers a third-round pick in the 2011 draft.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5005254


You're not going to find anybody (maybe outside the Seahawks organization) who would tell you that Jackson is better than Orton, or even close.

I don't think anyone would say Jackson is better than Orton. But it's a fact that the Seahags decided to go with Jackson rather than give up a 3 (and a contract) for Orton. Orton had a cost, Jackson was free. The cost for Orton wasn't real high, but it wasn't insignificant. I think the major point here is that if Orton were 'above average', as some Maners make him out to be, teams would be beating down the door to give up a round 3 pick for him. But that didn't happen...

Ugly Duck
08-31-2011, 05:59 PM
ESPN's John Clayton ranks the NFL's starting QBs - ESPN
THE ELITE
1. Tom Brady, New England Patriots
2. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers
3. Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts
4. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers
6. Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers
7. Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons
8. Michael Vick, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Eli Manning, New York Giants
10. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys
11. Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
12. Matt Schaub, Houston Texans
13. Josh Freeman, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
CHAD PENNINGTON DIVISION
14. Sam Bradford, St. Louis Rams
15. Matt Cassel, Kansas City Chiefs
16. Jay Cutler, Chicago Bears
17. Mark Sanchez, New York Jets
18. Kevin Kolb, Arizona Cardinals
19. Matthew Stafford, Detroit Lions
20. Kyle Orton, Denver Broncos
21. Donovan McNabb, Minnesota Vikings
22. David Garrard, Jacksonville Jaguars
23. Jason Campbell, Oakland Raiders
24. Matt Hasselbeck, Tennessee Titans
HIT-OR-MISS DIVISION
25. Colt McCoy, Cleveland Browns
26. Chad Henne, Miami Dolphins
27. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Buffalo Bills
28. Alex Smith, San Francisco 49ers
29. Kerry Collins, Indianapolis Colts
30. Tarvaris Jackson, Seattle Seahawks
31. John Beck-Rex Grossman, Washington Redskins
32. Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers
33. Andy Dalton, Cincinnati Bengals

Agamemnon
09-02-2011, 11:01 AM
ESPN's John Clayton ranks the NFL's starting QBs - ESPN
THE ELITE
1. Tom Brady, New England Patriots
2. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers
3. Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts
4. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers
6. Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers
7. Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons
8. Michael Vick, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Eli Manning, New York Giants
10. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys
11. Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
12. Matt Schaub, Houston Texans
13. Josh Freeman, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
CHAD PENNINGTON DIVISION
14. Sam Bradford, St. Louis Rams
15. Matt Cassel, Kansas City Chiefs
16. Jay Cutler, Chicago Bears
17. Mark Sanchez, New York Jets
18. Kevin Kolb, Arizona Cardinals
19. Matthew Stafford, Detroit Lions
20. Kyle Orton, Denver Broncos
21. Donovan McNabb, Minnesota Vikings
22. David Garrard, Jacksonville Jaguars
23. Jason Campbell, Oakland Raiders
24. Matt Hasselbeck, Tennessee Titans
HIT-OR-MISS DIVISION
25. Colt McCoy, Cleveland Browns
26. Chad Henne, Miami Dolphins
27. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Buffalo Bills
28. Alex Smith, San Francisco 49ers
29. Kerry Collins, Indianapolis Colts
30. Tarvaris Jackson, Seattle Seahawks
31. John Beck-Rex Grossman, Washington Redskins
32. Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers
33. Andy Dalton, Cincinnati Bengals

Overall I can't disagree to much with that list. You could certainly swap guys around a bit here and there, but the overall reasoning seems sound.

Pretty funny to see Cutler in the "Chad Pennington Division" by the way. If only we could of taken advantage of the picks we fleeced out of the Bears for him.

Edit: Kolb is way too high if you ask me. The dude has done absolutely nothing in the NFL so far.

Maximus
09-11-2011, 06:52 PM
Anyone want to switch answers?

Tim
09-11-2011, 07:40 PM
Anyone want to switch answers?

nope, I nailed it on page 1

Rock Chalk
09-11-2011, 08:08 PM
Anyone want to switch answers?

Nope, I was one of the 43 that picked Cassel.

colonelbeef
09-11-2011, 08:23 PM
Campbell, then Cassel and Orton being a toss up

DeuceOfClub
09-12-2011, 11:57 AM
All 120 voters who picked Campbell over Cassel should be ashamed.

DrFate
09-12-2011, 01:45 PM
I voted for Cassell

#winning

go_broncos
09-12-2011, 02:14 PM
Let's wait till we play the game.I think Orton is the worst.

Pick Six
09-12-2011, 03:33 PM
I'm still holding out hope that Campbell will be pretty bad. We shall see, tonight...

AlienBronco
09-13-2011, 11:33 AM
Passing Rushing
Tm Cmp Att Yds TD Int Lng Att Yds TD Lng QBR
OAK 13 22 105 1 0 17 6 2 1 7 86.4
DEN 24 46 304 1 1 24 1 13 0 13 71.3

Well, for this game it is obvious that Orton does suck just a little more then Cambell.

ps stats are courtesy of PRO-FOOTBALL REFERENCE.com and CNN Stats

Ugly Duck
09-24-2011, 04:48 PM
All 120 voters who picked Campbell over Cassel should be ashamed.


ESPN Season QB Ratings 2011
#1__ Tom Brady
#2__ Aaron Rodgers
#3__ Drew Brees
#10__ Jason Campbell
#13__ Michael Vick
#14__ Philip Rivers
#18__ Kyle Orton
#31__ Matt Cassel

"Campbell and its not even close." - cutthemdown

"You're drunk if you think Campbell is better than anyone." - Dedhed

"Campbell" - Br0nc0Buster

"I went with cassel, just wait till the season starts you'll see why." - Tim (WINNER!!)

"Campbell is the worst" - KCStud

"Campbell is at the bottom of the 32 starting QBs." - Arkie

KCStud
09-24-2011, 08:43 PM
ESPN Season QB Ratings 2011
#1__ Tom Brady
#2__ Aaron Rodgers
#3__ Drew Brees
#10__ Jason Campbell
#13__ Michael Vick
#14__ Philip Rivers
#18__ Kyle Orton
#31__ Matt Cassel

"Campbell and its not even close." - cutthemdown

"You're drunk if you think Campbell is better than anyone." - Dedhed

"Campbell" - Br0nc0Buster

"I went with cassel, just wait till the season starts you'll see why." - Tim (WINNER!!)

"Campbell is the worst" - KCStud

"Campbell is at the bottom of the 32 starting QBs." - Arkie

Ha our whole division is full of overrated QB's. Rivers can't take his team to the SB like everyone says he can, Campbell is still average and won't beat good teams and Orton/Cassel are just garbage.

Vegas_Bronco
09-24-2011, 08:48 PM
I was just looking at Orton and Hasslebeck...fun comparison as they were both signed in the same year.

http://www.salary-money.com/matt-hasselbeck-salary-6004320.php

Hasselbeck makes less and has 12-13% better completion percentage. I cant imagine a season with Orton throwing for 55% completion but that would effectively make him worse than the other two...let's hope he improves.

Ugly Duck
09-24-2011, 09:05 PM
Campbell = average
Orton/Cassel = garbage.

You appear to be contradicting your "Campbell is the worst" statement...

Rolandftw
09-24-2011, 09:28 PM
Campbell barely passed the ball in the Denver game other then screens and Buffalo has a very weak pass defense. I'd wait until he plays the Jets...

Ugly Duck
09-24-2011, 09:43 PM
Campbell barely passed the ball in the Denver game other then screens and Buffalo has a very weak pass defense. I'd wait until he plays the Jets...

Ever since he took over from Gradkowski last season after the Miami disaster, Campbell has averaged 97. Problem is he went 4-3 in that stretch... all the wins vs KC, SD & DEN.

JJJ
09-24-2011, 11:24 PM
Just to make this more interesting where would you guys put Cutler amongst these 4?

Powderaddict
09-24-2011, 11:28 PM
I voted Campbell, but it's really a three way tie for last.

Ugly Duck
09-25-2011, 12:21 AM
I voted Campbell, but it's really a three way tie for last.

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/chicken.jpg

Houshyamama
09-25-2011, 12:21 AM
Campbell has the advantage of an outstanding running game. If it was all on his arm he'd be near the bottom of the pool. QB efficiency in his case has a lot to do with the respect opposing defenses pay to Mcfadden, Bush, etc..

enjolras
09-25-2011, 01:47 AM
Just to make this more interesting where would you guys put Cutler amongst these 4?

2nd.. just a bit ahead of Orton. None of them are guys that you're super excited to have on your team, however.

Ugly Duck
09-25-2011, 07:53 AM
Hey - I'm not the only one saying you guys were wrong in the assessment that Campbell is the worst QB in the west...

ESPN Bill Williamson: Campbell takes over division QBR lead

Jason Campbell, Oakland... Season NFL ranking: 9
Comment: If Campbell can keep this up, the Raiders are going to win a lot of games.

Philip Rivers, San Diego... Season NFL ranking: 11
Comment: Rivers is good as always, but he has some key mistakes.

Kyle Orton, Denver
Comment: Orton has to improve if the Broncos are going to win consistently.

Matt Cassel, Kansas City
Comment: A lot is going wrong in Kansas City and Cassel isnít helping matters.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/32501/campbell-takes-over-division-qbr-lead

Ugly Duck
09-25-2011, 08:56 PM
Campbell barely passed the ball in the Denver game other then screens and Buffalo has a very weak pass defense. I'd wait until he plays the Jets...

http://talknowalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/seriously.png

vonqkilla
09-25-2011, 08:58 PM
I demand a recount.

Bronx33
09-25-2011, 09:22 PM
Hey - I'm not the only one saying you guys were wrong in the assessment that Campbell is the worst QB in the west...

ESPN Bill Williamson: Campbell takes over division QBR lead

Jason Campbell, Oakland... Season NFL ranking: 9
Comment: If Campbell can keep this up, the Raiders are going to win a lot of games.

Philip Rivers, San Diego... Season NFL ranking: 11
Comment: Rivers is good as always, but he has some key mistakes.

Kyle Orton, Denver
Comment: Orton has to improve if the Broncos are going to win consistently.

Matt Cassel, Kansas City
Comment: A lot is going wrong in Kansas City and Cassel isnít helping matters.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/32501/campbell-takes-over-division-qbr-lead

3 games into the season theres plenty of time for suckage.

Ugly Duck
09-25-2011, 09:36 PM
NFL.com Season QB Rating through Week 3:

#10 -Jason Campbell
#23 - Phillip Rivers
#25 - Kyle Orton
#31 - Matt Cassel

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

Maximus
09-25-2011, 11:52 PM
This thread will live for ever!

Crow
09-26-2011, 08:24 AM
Quality thread. I give it 3 out of 5 lols. Would read again.

Rolandftw
09-26-2011, 11:52 AM
He's been the best after three games, have to give him props.

Maximus
09-26-2011, 01:39 PM
NFL.com Season QB Rating through Week 3:

#10 -Jason Campbell
#23 - Phillip Rivers
#25 - Kyle Orton
#31 - Matt Cassel

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

I'm not surprised that JC is in the top 10. He was drafted in the first round and still can make all the throws. The only thing that went against JC was head coaching changes and OC changes.

DontBeMessin
09-26-2011, 02:08 PM
You all are right... Kyle Orton is awesome!!! Way better than Campbell... I mean - what's Orton's average passer rating? in the 70's? How many games is he under 70 and in the 60's?

He's awesome!!! Completion rate of what... under 60%? How many INT's?

You all have blind faith...

montrose
11-26-2011, 06:05 PM
So who would think by November: Cassel'd be out for the year, Orton would be cut by Denver and picked up by KC, Campbell out for the year, Palmer traded to Oakland, Rivers having a career-worst year and Tebow 4-1!