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Dedhed
08-31-2011, 10:05 AM
What's the matter. Didn't have your daily dose of Ganja today?

Nice take Macgruber. That's really witty and original of you.

DenverBrit
08-31-2011, 10:08 AM
Not at all the 'truth,' it's ONLY your own much biased OPINION.

And your opinion is based of the barest of information.

And it's being processed by your own (maybe deficient) brain.

You don't have a clue about who I am, or what I know.

The TRUTH??? You can't handle the truth....

They currently are using practice to determine the starter, correct?

So tell me, is practice a better indicator than preseason games against a real opponent? (crickets)

And is there any advantage to using the starters over the scrubs in both practice and the games?

Put Orton with the scrubs for a week, and Tebow with the starters if you want an actual 'FAIR' evaluation of their relative QB'ing abilities.

I'm not biased FOR Tebow, he is simply a better QB than the other three on the roster imoho. :sunshine:

They (coaches/staff/owner) will start and play whomever they choose.
Fine with me, I never sports bet so it won't cost me a dime either way.

However, I would like to see what Tebow can do, so I would like to see them either play him or trade him.

And since THEY don't follow any boards, and THEY are never swayed by what any stupid fan says or wants, then what the heck does it matter anyway? ;)

You've ended your own argument. Well done..

Cito Pelon
08-31-2011, 10:18 AM
That's not the argument. The argument is that the supposed developmental QB in question has already proven more effective than the incumbent, and has shown, in actual games, that he's not going to be in over his head.

Eh, I was all giddy about Tebow last season, but he's not ready to start right now. The staff would have to be just flat out stupid to start Tebow.

Dedhed
08-31-2011, 10:28 AM
Eh, I was all giddy about Tebow last season, but he's not ready to start right now. The staff would have to be just flat out stupid to start Tebow.

The only way I agree with that take is if the staff just wants Orton to take the brunt of the beating before they turn the team over to Tebow. That makes a little sense to me.

Letting Orton lose the locker room first would help establish Tebow as the leader more quickly upon taking the reigns. It also would give a barometer against which to measure Tebow, and take the pressure off for him to be a world beater.

I'm guessing it will look much like last year; Orton putting up cosmetic numbers and leading the team to 20 pts/game. Tebow looking wild eyed and ragged but being more effective in putting points on the board and firing up his teammates.

Let Orton set the bar low, so that Tebow doesn't have the world of expectations on his shoulders when he does get the job. That's the only way starting Orton makes sense to me.

TailgateNut
08-31-2011, 10:33 AM
The only way I agree with that take is if the staff just wants Orton to take the brunt of the beating before they turn the team over to Tebow. That makes a little sense to me.

Letting Orton lose the locker room first would help establish Tebow as the leader more quickly upon taking the reigns. It also would give a barometer against which to measure Tebow, and take the pressure off for him to be a world beater.

I'm guessing it will look much like last year; Orton putting up cosmetic numbers and leading the team to 20 pts/game. Tebow looking wild eyed and ragged but being more effective in putting points on the board and firing up his teammates.

Let Orton set the bar low, so that Tebow doesn't have the world of expectations on his shoulders when he does get the job. That's the only way starting Orton makes sense to me.


I see you have had your ganja.

AlphaSeirra
08-31-2011, 10:46 AM
Your entire argument that he's performing better and isn't over his head is based off of too small a sample size.

>>He largely looked like garbage in the Oakland game<<

and the first half of the Houston game. He put up most of his stats in what people would describe as "garbage time" had Orton been the one behind center.



Pardon me, but in the 1st quarter in the Black Hole at Oakland, Tebow in his 1st NFL start, without the benefit of preseason or regular season 1st team practice time:
Became just the 3rd QB in NFL history to throw for a TD over 30 yds (33), and run for a TD of 40+ yards (on a 3rd and 24)!

And apparently, some people claim that small sample or 3 starts and a shortened preseason practice plus 3-4 preseason game is to small a sample to prove that Tebow is a competent QB, but they don't mind using any spurious (or even incorrect) data when claiming that he is NOT a competent QB.
Using the infamous 'consensus' or 'they' as their irrefutable authority.

What the FACTS/STATS show/prove, regardless of what the consensus nay-sayers want to claim....

With Orton at QB in 13 games, there were 9 games where the Broncos failed to put up 21 points last year:
Orton - 17, 13, 17, 20, 14, 16, 14, 6, 13.

But rookie Tebow, coming in cold without the season long 1st team reps, still put up:
Tebow - 23, 24, 28 -- and that supposedly shows that he can't play at an NFL level? WTF???

When Tim was the Starter in 2010:
The Tebow led Broncos were 7th in the league in points per game.
The Orton led Bronvos were 20th in the league in PPG.
And Tebow had little to no help from the RBs late in the season, unlike Orton did early on.

In 13 games, Orton with Pro Bowl WR Lloyd - 18.3 ypr with 1 TD per 7 receptions.
In 3 games, Tebow with Pro Bowl WR Lloyd - 18.8 ypr with 1 TD per 7 receptions.

Tebow's Rushing as the starter - 31 for 199 yards, 6.4 ypc and 3 TD's.
One TD per every 10 rushing attempts.
Name the last Bronco starter to average 6.4 ypc for me?

* And REMEMBER this; On his 2010 season carries, 43 for 227 yds, 5.3 ypc and 6 TD's,
HE HAD EXACTLY ZERO LOST POSSESSION FUMBLES!!!

Rookie Tebow --- 43 for 227 yds, 5.3 Ypc, 6 TD's, 1 fumble, 0 lost poss. in only 3 starts, 9 gp.
Rookie Alstott --- 96 for 377 yds, 3.9 ypc, 3 TD's, 4 fumbles, 2 lost poss. in 16 starts.

* For the Season, on 3rd down running the ball:
Tim was 10 for 102 yds, 10.2 ypc with 2 TD's.


NO ROOKIE QB IN NFL HISTORY HAS THESE STATS!
~ On 1st and goal, 2 carries for 2 TD's.
~ On 2nd and goal, 2 carries for 2 TD's.
~ On 3rd and goal, 1 carry for 1 TD.
>>> His other (6th) rushing TD was on a 3rd and 24, but it went for 40 yards, a Broncos QB ALL TIME TEAM record.

** When the Broncos were behind, Tim ran 25 times for 176 yds, 7.0 ypc and 5 TD's.
=================

At Oakland he had a 100.5 QB Passer Rating with a TD in his 1st NFL start.
Against Houston he threw for over 300 Yards with a TD in just his 2nd start.
Plus he got his 1st come from behind 4th quarter win.
Against San Diego the threw for 2 TD's and over 200 Yards in his 3rd start.

OR how about this Tebow / Orton QB/Leader comparison:
Tebow L (-16) Denver 23 - 39 @ Oakland
Orton L (-45) @ Denver 14 - 59 Oakland)
==================

I'm quite sure that if Orton and Tebow's positions in the below chart were reversed, some of you here would use it a 'PROOF POSITIVE' that Tim was a bust....

But I can compare Tim to the Top NFL QB's in their 1st 3 starts as rookies.
Passing TD - Rushing TD - Total TDs - INTs - Lost Fums - TDs per Turnover
Tim Tebow -- 4 - 3 - 7 - 3 - 0 - 2.33
Drew Brees - 3 - 0 - 3 - 2 - 0 - 1.50
Tom Brady -- 2 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 2 - 1.00
P. Manning - 2 - 0 - 2 - 8 - 1 - 0.22
Kyle Orton -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 6 - 1 - 0.14

On Elway's 1st 3 NFL starts.... 1 passing TD, 0 rushing TD's, 3 Ints. (Season PER 54.9, 7 TD's to 14 Ints)

#1 Pick Sam Bradford's first 3 starts.... 4 passing TD's, 0 rushing TD's, 5 Ints. (Season PER 76.5)

Note: Quinn's Rookie QB Pass Efficiency Rating was a 56.8, his career PER is a paltry 66.8.

But hey, start and play Orton, back him up with da Mighty Quinn, drop Tim to 4th string, or better yet, dump his useless butt cause he'll NEVER be an NFL QB.

After all the consensus agreed to that way back in 2009. ^5

Beantown Bronco
08-31-2011, 10:54 AM
Pardon me, but in the 1st quarter in the Black Hole at Oakland, Tebow in his 1st NFL start, without the benefit of preseason or regular season 1st team practice time:
Became just the 3rd QB in NFL history to throw for a TD over 30 yds (33), and run for a TD of 40+ yards (on a 3rd and 24)!

Ummmm, I said he largely looked like garbage in that game. You cited only two plays from that game. If that is our criteria for judging one's performance in a whole game, then I can make Orton look like Peyton Manning.

Momentum
08-31-2011, 11:14 AM
He isnt very good right now but he has a way of making plays "his way" he also has a way of making simple things such as getting the snap turn into very bad moments. In a few years he may develop enough to be a decent 2 but never a 1, no team is going to want to play him all 16 games with that style.

AlphaSeirra
08-31-2011, 11:15 AM
Ummmm, I said he largely looked like garbage in that game. You cited only two plays from that game. If that is our criteria for judging one's performance in a whole game, then I can make Orton look like Peyton Manning.

Sorry, but you are largely incorrect yet again.

At Oakland Tebow had a 100.5 QB Passer Rating.

Now feel free to show me what the other 2010 rookie QB's Ratiings were in their first start. (hint: that was the highest 1st start QB Rating in the 2010 NFL and Tim did it AT FREAKIN' OAKLAND)

Feel free to show me how you can make Orton look like Manning.
Here, let me get you started:
Tebow L (-16) Denver 23 - 39 @ Oakland
Orton L (-45) @ Denver 14 - 59 Oakland)

First 3 NFL Starts:
Passing TD - Rushing TD - Total TDs - INTs - Lost Fums - TDs per Turnover
Tim Tebow -- 4 - 3 - 7 - 3 - 0 - 2.33
P. Manning - 2 - 0 - 2 - 8 - 1 - 0.22
Kyle Orton -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 6 - 1 - 0.14

On Elway's 1st 3 NFL starts.... 1 passing TD, 0 rushing TD's, 3 Ints.
(Season PER 54.9, 7 TD's to 14 Ints)
Sorry, but no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't make Elway look like Tebow...;)

Momentum
08-31-2011, 11:20 AM
Sorry, but you are largely incorrect yet again.

At Oakland Tebow had a 100.5 QB Passer Rating.

Now feel free to show me what the other 2010 rookie QB's Ratiings were in their first start. (hint: that was the highest 1st start QB Rating in the 2010 NFL and Tim did it AT FREAKIN' OAKLAND)

Feel free to show me how you can make Orton look like Manning.
Here, let me get you started:
Tebow L (-16) Denver 23 - 39 @ Oakland
Orton L (-45) @ Denver 14 - 59 Oakland)

First 3 NFL Starts:
Passing TD - Rushing TD - Total TDs - INTs - Lost Fums - TDs per Turnover
Tim Tebow -- 4 - 3 - 7 - 3 - 0 - 2.33
P. Manning - 2 - 0 - 2 - 8 - 1 - 0.22
Kyle Orton -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 6 - 1 - 0.14

On Elway's 1st 3 NFL starts.... 1 passing TD, 0 rushing TD's, 3 Ints.
(Season PER 54.9, 7 TD's to 14 Ints)
Sorry, but no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't make Elway look like Tebow...;)

Yes, but we still lost the game. Tebow supporters have got to let go of the Oakland game as a moral victory because of the 40 yard run. No moral victories in sports.

AlphaSeirra
08-31-2011, 11:31 AM
Yes, but we still lost the game. Tebow supporters have got to let go of the Oakland game as a moral victory because of the 40 yard run. No moral victories in sports.


Orton's winning percentage was .231 and he got all of the preseason and season 1st team reps.

Tebow's winning percentage was .333 and he got NADA but a weeks practice and thrown in the game.

Is that just a 'moral' victory or is it an 'actual' better winning percentage?
============

Hey, for those that want to claim that Tim's 3 starts are not going to show anything, riddle me this:

Elway's 1st 3 starts = 1 TD to 3 Ints for a .33 to 1 ratio.
Elways Rookie season = 7 TD's to 14 Ints, for a .50 to 1 ratio.
Started with a negative ratio and finished with a slightly better but still negative ratio.
So, we should rightly expect that Tebow would have also gotten at least a little better with a full season?

Tebow 4 TD's to 3 Ints 1.33 to 1 ratio.
Since he already had a POSITIVE TD to INT Ratio.

bronco militia
08-31-2011, 11:32 AM
Orton's winning percentage was .231 and he got all of the preseason and season 1st team reps.

Tebow's winning percentage was .333 and he got NADA but a weeks practice and thrown in the game.

Is that just a 'moral' victory or is it an 'actual' better winning percentage?
============

Hey, for those that want to claim that Tim's 3 starts are not going to show anything, riddle me this:

Elway's 1st 3 starts = 1 TD to 3 Ints for a .33 to 1 ratio.
Elways Rookie season = 7 TD's to 14 Ints, for a .50 to 1 ratio.
Started with a negative ratio and finished with a slightly better but still negative ratio.
So, we should rightly expect that Tebow would have also gotten at least a little better with a full season?

Tebow 4 TD's to 3 Ints 1.33 to 1 ratio.
Since he already had a POSITIVE TD to INT Ratio.

OMG

Ha!

http://www.reece-eu.net/gallery/var/resizes/funny/tactical-face-palm.jpg?m=1272644426

Beantown Bronco
08-31-2011, 11:33 AM
Sorry, but you are largely incorrect yet again.

At Oakland Tebow had a 100.5 QB Passer Rating.



Really?!? Really?!?

You're throwing a QB rating out there when the guy only completed EIGHT freaking passes? Awesome. Take away that one freaking pass and it drops to around 50. So, no, I'm not incorrect. Most of that game, he did not look good.

alkemical
08-31-2011, 11:33 AM
OMG

Ha!

http://www.reece-eu.net/gallery/var/resizes/funny/tactical-face-palm.jpg?m=1272644426

:puff:

bronco militia
08-31-2011, 11:34 AM
http://thediabeticduo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/implied-facepalm.jpg

Cito Pelon
08-31-2011, 11:36 AM
The only way I agree with that take is if the staff just wants Orton to take the brunt of the beating before they turn the team over to Tebow. That makes a little sense to me.

Letting Orton lose the locker room first would help establish Tebow as the leader more quickly upon taking the reigns. It also would give a barometer against which to measure Tebow, and take the pressure off for him to be a world beater.

I'm guessing it will look much like last year; Orton putting up cosmetic numbers and leading the team to 20 pts/game. Tebow looking wild eyed and ragged but being more effective in putting points on the board and firing up his teammates.

Let Orton set the bar low, so that Tebow doesn't have the world of expectations on his shoulders when he does get the job. That's the only way starting Orton makes sense to me.

Well, we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. That isn't sexy, but it's the reality. If I was HC I sure wouldn't hand the reins to Tebow right now.

alkemical
08-31-2011, 11:37 AM
I think they really need to put more LSD in the water supply.

Eldorado
08-31-2011, 11:37 AM
Orton's winning percentage was .231 and he got all of the preseason and season 1st team reps.

Tebow's winning percentage was .333 and he got NADA but a weeks practice and thrown in the game.

Is that just a 'moral' victory or is it an 'actual' better winning percentage?
============

Hey, for those that want to claim that Tim's 3 starts are not going to show anything, riddle me this:

Elway's 1st 3 starts = 1 TD to 3 Ints for a .33 to 1 ratio.
Elways Rookie season = 7 TD's to 14 Ints, for a .50 to 1 ratio.
Started with a negative ratio and finished with a slightly better but still negative ratio.
So, we should rightly expect that Tebow would have also gotten at least a little better with a full season?

Tebow 4 TD's to 3 Ints 1.33 to 1 ratio.
Since he already had a POSITIVE TD to INT Ratio.

Ohhhhmg. So much fail. Don't ever compare TT to Elway. Just a bad plan. Also, if you are going to use statistics, use comparable data.

AlphaSeirra
08-31-2011, 11:42 AM
Really?!? Really?!?

You're throwing a QB rating out there when the guy only completed EIGHT freaking passes? Awesome. Take away that one freaking pass and it drops to around 50. So, no, I'm not incorrect. Most of that game, he did not look good.


Cookie cuttering and cherry pickering supreme!!!

Do show us everyone else's stats with their best plays removed.
This should be very interesting..... (mostly just hysterical I'm betting) Hilarious!

However while he was looking bad he did set the Broncos All Time Team Record for a QB run for a TD at 40 yds.

And he joined 2 other NFL QB's with his combo of 40 yd TD run and 33 yd TD pass. (C.Stewart & M.Vick)

So yep, he was just terrible. ROFL!

Now, compare and contrast the following info for us, (since you seem to have missed it above):

Tebow L (-16) Denver 23 - 39 @ Oakland
Orton L (-45) @ Denver 14 - 59 Oakland)

AlphaSeirra
08-31-2011, 11:48 AM
Ohhhhmg. So much fail. Don't ever compare TT to Elway. Just a bad plan. Also, if you are going to use statistics, use comparable data.

You're absolutely right, their is no comparison to be made, just the actual stats to look at.

Elway's 1st 3 starts = 1 TD to 3 Ints for a .33 to 1 ratio.
Elways Rookie season = 7 TD's to 14 Ints, for a .50 to 1 ratio.

:wave:

Beantown Bronco
08-31-2011, 11:49 AM
Alpha, have you even read my argument. The offense that game ran 51 total plays. All you keep doing is referencing two plays that happened within two minutes of each other. Great. Tell me how that somehow proves he played well over the entire course of that game. You've got about 58 minutes of game footage and 25 minutes of Broncos offensive possession to work with. Prove your case.

Cito Pelon
08-31-2011, 12:10 PM
I think they really need to put more LSD in the water supply.

Perrish Cox agrees.

Eldorado
08-31-2011, 12:18 PM
You're absolutely right, their is no comparison to be made, just the actual stats to look at.

Elway's 1st 3 starts = 1 TD to 3 Ints for a .33 to 1 ratio.
Elways Rookie season = 7 TD's to 14 Ints, for a .50 to 1 ratio.

:wave:

That is not a statistical analysis. That a monkey throwing **** at a wall and hoping it sticks.

alkemical
08-31-2011, 12:19 PM
Perrish Cox agrees.

GHB & LSD are two different things.

bowtown
08-31-2011, 12:24 PM
You're absolutely right, their is no comparison to be made, just the actual stats to look at.

Elway's 1st 3 starts = 1 TD to 3 Ints for a .33 to 1 ratio.
Elways Rookie season = 7 TD's to 14 Ints, for a .50 to 1 ratio.

:wave:

How do you feel about 9-11? Inside Job: yes or no?

alkemical
08-31-2011, 12:25 PM
How do you feel about 9-11? Inside Job: yes or no?

911 is a joke

TailgateNut
08-31-2011, 12:29 PM
How do you feel about 9-11? Inside Job: yes or no?


....or antigravitic planes

AlphaSeirra
08-31-2011, 12:30 PM
Alpha, have you even read my argument. The offense that game ran 51 total plays. All you keep doing is referencing two plays that happened within two minutes of each other. Great. Tell me how that somehow proves he played well over the entire course of that game. You've got about 58 minutes of game footage and 25 minutes of Broncos offensive possession to work with. Prove your case.

I'm still waiting for you to justify your position by showing us all the stats for everyone else after you've removed their 2 best plays in ANY game.
Then I might bother with your bs.

Tebow's TERRIBLE 1st start @ Oakland = 8 of 16, 50% for 138 yds, 1 TD, 17.25 YPR, 100.5 PER
With a 33 Yard rushing TD on a 3rd and 24.

IF you throw more of the Orton/Quinn dump-off dink&dunk junk, then you get a higher compeltion % but a WAY lower YPR.

On Elway's 1st THREE NFL starts.... 1 passing TD, 0 rushing TD's, 3 Ints.
So, was John also TERRIBLE, or is that impossible here? ;)
================

On Tim's 2nd start, the coach stopped holding him back and he threw for over 300 yds.

Or are you claiming that Tim learned the rest of the offense and how to throw the ball in 6 days between start 1 and start 2?

So maybe it was the coaching and not the player that was really the problem all along? (like now?)

* And I notice that NO ONE wants to address Tim's current 6.7 ypc rushing average either.

orange 4 life
08-31-2011, 12:32 PM
BS.

you know what happens when your reads are lousy?

you miss wide open receivers and end up checking down to the RB, or you throw INTs into double and triple coverage.

Tebow is not having a problem with lousy reads.

maybe his reads are slower than Orton, but everyone expects that of a 2nd year player vs. a 7th year player.

Tebow does have a problem with happy feet. that's what he needs to work on.

but this crap about him not being able to read defenses or not knowing where to throw the ball is not borne out by his actual play. some dip**** writer for the Denver Post might throw that out there as a blanket condemnation of his abilities, but it's not the truth.

stick to the truth and make an argument about why Tebow isn't ready. you might be surprised to hear that i'm willing to listen to those arguments and might even agree. but don't make stuff up to prove your point.

I can't BELIEVE no one tore this post apart yet.
Hate to be mean (then again you're not exactly being kind here) but what you're saying is ridiculous.

Checking down to a back is exactly what QB's that CAN read defenses do.
It's a matter of progression. You see a QB get his initial read at the line of scrimmage. Then he has his primary target. If covered (and if given time in the pocket) the above average NFL QB can scan through his 2nd and maybe even 3rd option. This obviously depends on how many receivers he has in a given play.
If they're all covered he will check down and hit the running back.
This of course all happens fairly quickly.

You're the ONLY person suggesting Tebow IS reading defenses properly.
He isn't and it's PAINFULLY obvious. Like him or not let's stick to reality okay?Re-watch the preseason games and you might see what everyone is talking about. Watch the way Orton scans through his options. Look at how he generally knows when he'll be under pressure and needs to throw it quickly and he also knows when he'll have some time. Notice how he's surveying the field and throwing to the guy that's open. It's even more impressive when you're at the game and can see the routes developing. Then watch Tebow.

He drops back, stares down his LONE target on any given play, and if it's not there he does one of two things:
1) Continue to wait until the receiver opens up or he gets sacked, or
2) He immediately takes off and runs

What he does NOT do is survey the defense, go through his progressions, and find the open receiver.
What he does not do is check down to a running back when his primary (if there is only one in the pattern besides his check down) receiver is covered.
He's a second year kid from a spread offense. I don't EXPECT him to be reading defense's properly (he may never be able to but either way it will take time) and therefore can just appreciate the things he can do.
People like you propping him up so much further than his play has earned are beyond frustrating.

And if you actually want Tebow to start for the Broncos this season then you either don't understand the game or you don't want to win as many games as possible. There's just no doubt that he's not anywhere near ready.
And what's worse is if you got your way and threw him to the wolves you'd be the same person then calling for his head in a couple years.
Maybe he'll be a player and maybe not but barring injury (likely plural) he'll be on the bench this season where he belongs.

TailgateNut
08-31-2011, 12:39 PM
I'm still waiting for you to justify your position by showing us all the stats for everyone else after you've removed their 2 best plays in ANY game.
Then I might bother with your bs.

Tebow's TERRIBLE 1st start @ Oakland = 8 of 16, 50% for 138 yds, 1 TD, 17.25 YPR, 100.5 PER
With a 33 Yard rushing TD on a 3rd and 24.

IF you throw more of the Orton/Quinn dump-off dink&dunk junk, then you get a higher compeltion % but a WAY lower YPR.

On Elway's 1st THREE NFL starts.... 1 passing TD, 0 rushing TD's, 3 Ints.
So, was John also TERRIBLE, or is that impossible here? ;)
================

On Tim's 2nd start, the coach stopped holding him back and he threw for over 300 yds.

Or are you claiming that Tim learned the rest of the offense and how to throw the ball in 6 days between start 1 and start 2?

So maybe it was the coaching and not the player that was really the problem all along? (like now?)

* And I notice that NO ONE wants to address Tim's current 6.7 ypc rushing average either.


Maybe the coach and the FO are SO ****ING TIRED of hearing from all the Tebow Nuthggers that they will never start his silly ass again. One can hope.

Mybe all you ****ing "Tebow is a foottball god" jerk will go the **** away.

Beantown Bronco
08-31-2011, 12:43 PM
I'm still waiting for you to justify your position by showing us all the stats for everyone else after you've removed their 2 best plays in ANY game.
Then I might bother with your bs.

Justify MY position? OK. Chew on this. We punted SEVEN TIMES in that Oakland game. We got the ball in the Raiders redzone ONCE. If Tebow was playing so well, how on earth does something like that happen? It doesn't. Sorry. He looked spectacular over the course of a two minute span and did nothing but throw incompletions or tuck the ball and run the other 58 minutes of the game.

orange 4 life
08-31-2011, 12:50 PM
....we shouldn't have drafted him PERIOD!

Figures you'd be one of the people not in fantasy land!! Well done.

Only thing I'd add to that is MAYBE it would've made sense as a 3rd round pick.
Definitely shouldn't have spent a 1st for him.

He's a great kid and an amazing athlete.
He's just not a solid QB right now and I question whether he'll EVER be.
He can already do some nice things and I suspect he'll improve a little as time goes on but the bottom line is at best I see him being a career backup and/or the guy that bounces around starting for teams that are in the cellar and looking for a temporary shot of adrenaline.

The people that think he's the next H.O.F. qb for Denver are simply dreaming. Cutler wasn't that guy and Tebow REALLY isn't that guy.
Orton isn't a H.O.F. guy either but he's an above average QB in this league that has a chance to elevate further given the addition of Fox, a running game, and a better defense. I'd be surprised if he doesn't turn some heads this year.
Problem is some people (just like Plummer/Cutler except in that case at least Cutler was CLOSE to the level of Plummer and EVERYONE agreed he had the upside) just will NOT let it go unless we win a Superbowl.

If we win 8-10 games and our offense is improved in the red zone then I'd be surprised if Orton isn't given a 4-5 year deal. Nothing would make me happier since I want to win now, I think we have a team that's ready to do just that, and signing Orton long term (likely coupled with trading Tebow just to avoid these ridiculous arguments) would finally unify the fan base.

On another note if it makes you feel better most everyone here in Denver DOES understand that Tebow isn't the guy right now.
There are still plenty of #15 jerseys in the stands but less each week and the people calling 104.3 (even the most ardent Tebow supporters) seem to finally understand and accept that he's nowhere near the QB Orton is right now.
I know it doesn't look that way from reading this board but around town there's been a big shift and it's nice to see. I think having Elway in the front office has been huge in that regard. Hope all's well my brother!

Jake

BroncoInferno
08-31-2011, 12:54 PM
Justify MY position? OK. Chew on this. We punted SEVEN TIMES in that Oakland game. We got the ball in the Raiders redzone ONCE. If Tebow was playing so well, how on earth does something like that happen? It doesn't. Sorry. He looked spectacular over the course of a two minute span and did nothing but throw incompletions or tuck the ball and run the other 58 minutes of the game.

It helped that the defense forced an uncharacteristic 3 turnovers in that game, all in Raiders territory.

orange 4 life
08-31-2011, 01:02 PM
Maybe the coach and the FO are SO ****ING TIRED of hearing from all the Tebow Nuthggers that they will never start his silly ass again. One can hope.

Mybe all you ****ing "Tebow is a foottball god" jerk will go the **** away.

It makes me frustrated and angry too brother but remember that most of those people simply don't understand the game well enough or they like Tebow so much they've convinced themselves that he's the guy and nothing anyone says will change it.

I'll try a different tactic here.
To those of you that want him to start I'll ask you this:

What is it about Orton that you DON'T like?
Virtually EVERYONE agrees that he's been fantastic between the 20's and the ONLY argument that holds ANY water is the argument that Orton is solid but can't get it done in crunch time or in the red zone. That said even that argument falls short since of course it's not a one man game and obviously our struggles in the red zone were primarily due to play calling and more importantly the lack of a running game.

Given the addition of Fox and said running game why would you NOT think we'll improve in the red zone?
If we continue to struggle and Orton is the reason then you better believe he won't be the starter past this season but we have every indication that we will be vastly improved in that area.
And if that happens why would any of you NOT want Orton under center?

orange 4 life
08-31-2011, 01:49 PM
Oh now this is the perfect example of CHERRY PICKIN' your facts to fit your bias:

Are you really attempting to equate Orton with any of those other starting QB's?

REALLY!!!! Hilarious!

PS
Did Elway sit on the bench or start?
Are Tebow's rookie stats better than Elways?
(feel free to use just their first 3 starts if you'd like) ;)

You're out of control. You can throw out all the preseason stats you want (and even stats from last year) and it doesn't change reality.
Just open your eyes and watch the games.

And to even SUGGEST a comparison of Tebow's stats to those of Elways almost THIRTY years ago shows how little you know about the game.
It was a COMPLETELY different game back then and anyone with HALF a brain can see Tebow is nowhere NEAR the prospect Elway was. Not even CLOSE.

Enough man. Really.
Skip the worthless preseason stats and make an argument based on what you see with your eyes.
Then please tell me how it is that Tebow is better than Orton?
P.S.- It's QUITE valid to mention Fox and Elway and their evaluation. Do you really believe there's some conspiracy to keep your guy off the field?

Or do you maybe just think they actually know what they're talking about and they can clearly see that Tebow does not give us the best chance to win?

Anyone watching the games and practices and understanding what they're watching can see Tebow isn't near the level or Orton.

missingnumber7
08-31-2011, 02:29 PM
Maybe the coach and the FO are SO ****ING TIRED of hearing from all the Tebow Nuthggers that they will never start his silly ass again. One can hope.

Mybe all you ****ing "Tebow is a foottball god" jerk will go the **** away.

The coach and the FO might not be but I know alot of broncos fans are.

DBroncos4life
08-31-2011, 02:45 PM
A positive Tebow thread always under four to five pages. A negative Tebow thread always over ten pages of the same crap. Tebow is the future of the team Orton is just here for one more year. GTF over it already.

TailgateNut
08-31-2011, 03:23 PM
A positive Tebow thread always under four to five pages. A negative Tebow thread always over ten pages of the same crap. Tebow is the future of the team Orton is just here for one more year. GTF over it already.


The amount of pages is directly related to all the positives and negatives of the player.:~ohyah!:

missingnumber7
09-01-2011, 07:48 AM
A positive Tebow thread always under four to five pages. A negative Tebow thread always over ten pages of the same crap. Tebow is the future of the team Orton is just here for one more year. GTF over it already.

Because the realists know to stay away from the postive tebow threads, and the Tblowers spew their propaganda all over the true tebow threads.

AlphaSeirra
09-01-2011, 10:38 AM
Maybe the coach and the FO are SO ****ING TIRED of hearing from all the Tebow Nuthggers that they will never start his silly ass again. One can hope.

Mybe all you ****ing "Tebow is a foottball god" jerk will go the **** away.

Be happy to, just get them genius's to trade Tebow to the Phins, since they nor anyone else in the NFL wanted 7th Year Vet Orton.....

I'm betting that the Phins would have taken Tim in a heartbeat if he'd been offered back then.

(that what you wanted to hear?) :welcome:

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 10:42 AM
Justify MY position? OK. Chew on this. We punted SEVEN TIMES in that Oakland game. We got the ball in the Raiders redzone ONCE. If Tebow was playing so well, how on earth does something like that happen? It doesn't. Sorry. He looked spectacular over the course of a two minute span and did nothing but throw incompletions or tuck the ball and run the other 58 minutes of the game.

How did Orton look against that same Oakland team?(at Home).

AlphaSeirra
09-01-2011, 10:43 AM
Justify MY position? OK. Chew on this. We punted SEVEN TIMES in that Oakland game. We got the ball in the Raiders redzone ONCE. If Tebow was playing so well, how on earth does something like that happen? It doesn't. Sorry. He looked spectacular over the course of a two minute span and did nothing but throw incompletions or tuck the ball and run the other 58 minutes of the game.

For the short bus rider:

Tebow's TERRIBLE 1st start @ Oakland:
>>> 8 of 16, 50% for 138 yds, 1 TD, 17.25 YPR, 100.5 PER
(included a 33 yard TD Pass)

With a 40 Yard rushing TD on a 3rd and 24.
(a Bronco All TIME rushing TD record by ANY QB)

On Elway's 1st THREE NFL starts.... 1 passing TD, 0 rushing TD's, 3 Ints.
So, was John also TERRIBLE, or is that impossible here? :welcome:

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 10:48 AM
How did Orton look against that same Oakland team?(at Home).

Not great, but he did have 200 yds passing and 2 TDs. So.....like Tebow....he had moments of good play and moments of bad play. Neither had a great game from start to finish and both lost.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 10:49 AM
For the short bus rider:

Tebow's TERRIBLE 1st start @ Oakland:
>>> 8 of 16, 50% for 138 yds, 1 TD, 17.25 YPR, 100.5 PER
(included a 33 yard TD Pass)

With a 40 Yard rushing TD on a 3rd and 24.
(a Bronco All TIME rushing TD record by ANY QB)

On Elway's 1st THREE NFL starts.... 1 passing TD, 0 rushing TD's, 3 Ints.
So, was John also TERRIBLE, or is that impossible here? :welcome:

For the 156th time, I said "largely" like crap. Not "entirely" like crap. When you start going to elementary school and finally learn the difference, please come back to this thread and we'll discuss it like adults. I can't debate anything with someone who can't read or comprehend simple words.

And, ONCE AGAIN, please...please tell me ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL, that shows Tebow played well outside of those two plays that game. Bring it. I dare you.

Eldorado
09-01-2011, 10:49 AM
That is correct. They were both terrible.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 10:50 AM
Not great

lulz

AlphaSeirra
09-01-2011, 11:06 AM
Figures you'd be one of the people not in fantasy land!! Well done.

Only thing I'd add to that is MAYBE it would've made sense as a 3rd round pick.
Definitely shouldn't have spent a 1st for him.

He's a great kid and an amazing athlete.
He's just not a solid QB right now and I question whether he'll EVER be.
He can already do some nice things and I suspect he'll improve a little as time goes on but the bottom line is at best I see him being a career backup and/or the guy that bounces around starting for teams that are in the cellar and looking for a temporary shot of adrenaline.

The people that think he's the next H.O.F. qb for Denver are simply dreaming. Cutler wasn't that guy and Tebow REALLY isn't that guy.
Orton isn't a H.O.F. guy either but he's an above average QB in this league that has a chance to elevate further given the addition of Fox, a running game, and a better defense. I'd be surprised if he doesn't turn some heads this year.
Problem is some people (just like Plummer/Cutler except in that case at least Cutler was CLOSE to the level of Plummer and EVERYONE agreed he had the upside) just will NOT let it go unless we win a Superbowl.

If we win 8-10 games and our offense is improved in the red zone then I'd be surprised if Orton isn't given a 4-5 year deal. Nothing would make me happier since I want to win now, I think we have a team that's ready to do just that, and signing Orton long term (likely coupled with trading Tebow just to avoid these ridiculous arguments) would finally unify the fan base.

On another note if it makes you feel better most everyone here in Denver DOES understand that Tebow isn't the guy right now.
There are still plenty of #15 jerseys in the stands but less each week and the people calling 104.3 (even the most ardent Tebow supporters) seem to finally understand and accept that he's nowhere near the QB Orton is right now.
I know it doesn't look that way from reading this board but around town there's been a big shift and it's nice to see. I think having Elway in the front office has been huge in that regard. Hope all's well my brother!

Jake


Anybody can claim ANYTHING here,,,, even when the stats clearly show that they are just FoS.

Consensus says - Tebow doesn't have the skills to play QB in HS, especially in talent rich Florida.

Reality - His HS moved up in divisions from 3A to 4A and Tim led them to a State Championship in their 1st season as a 4A.
Set many Florida HS State Records, and was elected to the Florida HS All Century Team.

Consensus says - Tebow's marginal HS skills will NEVER translate to college football, especially in the Monster Defense SEC.

Reality - !st Soph Heisman Winner in NCAA History. (also won Academic Heisman - Campbell Trophy)
Broke the (before then) impossible 20/20 Barrier with 32P-23R TD's in a single season.
Won 2 SEC-C's --- Won 2 BCS-NC's
Set the All Time SEC W/L record going 48-7 in his 4 years at UF.
And 40 of those 55 teams where Bowl quality opponents, the toughest 4 year SoS in NCAA history.

Consensus - Tim won't be taken until the late 2nd or early 3rd round, and maybe as a FB.

Reality - The 1/25 Pick as a QB, (while a couple of others were hoping to steal him early in the 2nd).

Consensus - Will NEVER start a single NFL game.

Reality - Going in cold for the final 3 games, a .333 winning percentage, 7th yr Orton a .231%

Finally, Tim finished the season with the #1 NFL QB Passer Efficiency Rating among the 2010 Rookie QB's.

And so much for what the moronic 'CONSENSUS' boys keep on trying to convince us of.
So, what are you going to believe, the genius Consensus boyz,,,, or your own LYING EYES.....

trading Tebow just to avoid these ridiculous arguments, would finally unify the fan base.

Or start a fan-based RIOT if you go by the actual Bronco fan numbers instead of the consensus boyz and/or haters...

Tebow is no where near Orton can only be believed if you:
1. Refuse to look at the actual game stats, last years or this years preseason.
2. Keeping in mind that this preseason, Orton has practiced and played with the 1st team, not the scrubs like Tebow's been forced to use.

Lastly, when someone complains that Tim takes off to early, have them justify Orton's sack count, or Tebow's 6.7 ypc average when he sees no one open and takes off. :notworthy

Cito Pelon
09-01-2011, 11:13 AM
You're out of control. You can throw out all the preseason stats you want (and even stats from last year) and it doesn't change reality.
Just open your eyes and watch the games.

And to even SUGGEST a comparison of Tebow's stats to those of Elways almost THIRTY years ago shows how little you know about the game.
It was a COMPLETELY different game back then and anyone with HALF a brain can see Tebow is nowhere NEAR the prospect Elway was. Not even CLOSE.

Enough man. Really.
Skip the worthless preseason stats and make an argument based on what you see with your eyes.
Then please tell me how it is that Tebow is better than Orton?
P.S.- It's QUITE valid to mention Fox and Elway and their evaluation. Do you really believe there's some conspiracy to keep your guy off the field?

Or do you maybe just think they actually know what they're talking about and they can clearly see that Tebow does not give us the best chance to win?

Anyone watching the games and practices and understanding what they're watching can see Tebow isn't near the level or Orton.

Tebow has so far to go to get even close to Elway. Tebow doesn't have that quick twitch where he plants his back foot fast and whips an accurate laser into a tight window. I thought Tebow would improve in that regard coming into this season, but nope.

Tebow still has that long backstep with his plant foot on the short passes, and that's not gonna make it in the NFL.

Eldorado
09-01-2011, 11:26 AM
Anybody can claim ANYTHING here,,,, even when the stats clearly show that they are just FoS.

Consensus says - Tebow doesn't have the skills to play QB in HS, especially in talent rich Florida.

Reality - His HS moved up in divisions from 3A to 4A and Tim led them to a State Championship in their 1st season as a 4A.
Set many Florida HS State Records, and was elected to the Florida HS All Century Team.

Consensus says - Tebow's marginal HS skills will NEVER translate to college football, especially in the Monster Defense SEC.

Reality - !st Soph Heisman Winner in NCAA History. (also won Academic Heisman - Campbell Trophy)
Broke the (before then) impossible 20/20 Barrier with 32P-23R TD's in a single season.
Won 2 SEC-C's --- Won 2 BCS-NC's
Set the All Time SEC W/L record going 48-7 in his 4 years at UF.
And 40 of those 55 teams where Bowl quality opponents, the toughest 4 year SoS in NCAA history.

Consensus - Tim won't be taken until the late 2nd or early 3rd round, and maybe as a FB.

Reality - The 1/25 Pick as a QB, (while a couple of others were hoping to steal him early in the 2nd).

Consensus - Will NEVER start a single NFL game.

Reality - Going in cold for the final 3 games, a .333 winning percentage, 7th yr Orton a .231%

Finally, Tim finished the season with the #1 NFL QB Passer Efficiency Rating among the 2010 Rookie QB's.

And so much for what the moronic 'CONSENSUS' boys keep on trying to convince us of.
So, what are you going to believe, the genius Consensus boyz,,,, or your own LYING EYES.....

trading Tebow just to avoid these ridiculous arguments, would finally unify the fan base.

Or start a fan-based RIOT if you go by the actual Bronco fan numbers instead of the consensus boyz and/or haters...

Tebow is no where near Orton can only be believed if you:
1. Refuse to look at the actual game stats, last years or this years preseason.
2. Keeping in mind that this preseason, Orton has practiced and played with the 1st team, not the scrubs like Tebow's been forced to use.

Lastly, when someone complains that Tim takes off to early, have them justify Orton's sack count, or Tebow's 6.7 ypc average when he sees no one open and takes off. :notworthy

MacGruder.

TailgateNut
09-01-2011, 11:27 AM
MacGruder.


Yep, or his twin sister.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 11:31 AM
Yep, or his twin sister.

You're his twin sister, you just take up the other side of the argument.

TailgateNut
09-01-2011, 11:33 AM
You're his twin sister, you just take up the other side of the argument.


and you are a delusional twat.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 11:41 AM
and you are a delusional twat.

Thanks

AlphaSeirra
09-01-2011, 12:15 PM
For the 156th time, I said "largely" like crap. Not "entirely" like crap. When you start going to elementary school and finally learn the difference, please come back to this thread and we'll discuss it like adults. I can't debate anything with someone who can't read or comprehend simple words.

And, ONCE AGAIN, please...please tell me ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL, that shows Tebow played well outside of those two plays that game. Bring it. I dare you.

You really are this dumb aren't you? But I have to give you that you're certainly tenacious in your ignorance...

>>> 8 of 16, 50% for 138 yds, 1 TD, 17.25 YPR, 100.5 PER

Taking away his best pass would still leave him at 7 of 15, 15.0 ypr, for 105 yds.
And he had another TD pass was dropped by RB Lance Ball.

Backed up at his own goal line twice in the second half, Tebow was not allowed (by the coach) to throw.
"I try to do as well as I can for whatever they ask me to do," Tebow said.

Taking away his record breaking 40 yard run would still leave him with, 38 rushing yards.

His combined offense was 216 yds with 2 TD's in his freakin' first start, not at home, but in the Black Hole. For a little perspective on those stats, that's twice as many TD's as Elway got in his first THREE freakin' starts!

And I can show everyone exactly WHY you demand that we take 2 plays out of Tim's game stats:

"The NFL has been around for 90 years, and until Tebow came along, only two quarterbacks the similarly Michael Vick (2002) and Kordell Stewart (2000) had rushed for a 40-yard touchdown and thrown for a 30+ yard score in the same game. Tebow pulled off the accomplishment in the first quarter of his first start. How great is that?"

"I thought he did OK," Raiders Pro Bow CB N.Asomugha said. "I thought his throws were on the money. And I thought he ran well." He broke two tackles during his 40 yard run and then carried another defender into the endzone for the TD. -- Denver Post

While Tim is not as 'smooth' as a 7th year Vet, he still had a better winning % than Orton did in 2010.
In 9 of 13 games, Orton FAILED to even put up 21 pts.
In 3 games, Tebow put up at least 21 pts EVERY SINGLE TIME.
==========================
Combined comments from various media sources at the time: (not jmoho)

On exhibit through the RAIN and CHILL Sunday afternoon was a greatness of will, great athleticism and far greater hope that the Broncos will have better days ahead.
There was ultraconservative play-calling (by coaches) too, along with the typically horrific Denver defense.

It was 3rd-and-24 at Oakland's 40-yard line on Denver's third possession in the first quarter when the inevitable happened: Tebow went Tebow and ran right up the middle for a touchdown.
The cheers that erupted were heard around the world. What happened next on Denver's next possession wasn't suppose to happen. On second down, Tebow dropped back and threw the ball downfield for a 33-yard touchdown to Brandon Lloyd.

The Broncos (coaches) didn't ask (let) Tebow to do much. Perhaps the catch phrase "he managed the game" is the best way to describe Tebow's performance. That being said, one may argue that Tebow didn't lose the game for Denver, but his teammates failed to show up. (Denver's defense yielded 502 yards, and two long TDs)

The Broncos faithful and NFL got a look at what the Gator Nation has known all along, and that is Tim Tebow is a leader. He is a competitor. And, he will continue to get better. The big question remains: Will his teammates improve along with him? Time will only tell. -- Bleacher Report

========================

Oh btw, consensus also claimed that Tebow would get killed running the ball against NFL defenses.
But didn't he get to start 3 games because Orton got his ribs cracked?
So much for staying in the pocket being any safer.....

Tebow was injured out of just one game in his 55 game UF career.
He was blind side blasted by a blitzing LB while STANDING IN THE POCKET on a pass play.
He left that game (mild concussion but UF won anyway) and he was back starting in UF's next game.

DBroncos4life
09-01-2011, 12:17 PM
No one reads your **** Mac Jr.

missingnumber7
09-01-2011, 01:10 PM
You really are this dumb aren't you? But I have to give you that you're certainly tenacious in your ignorance...

>>> 8 of 16, 50% for 138 yds, 1 TD, 17.25 YPR, 100.5 PER

Taking away his best pass would still leave him at 7 of 15, 15.0 ypr, for 105 yds.
And he had another TD pass was dropped by RB Lance Ball.

Backed up at his own goal line twice in the second half, Tebow was not allowed (by the coach) to throw.
"I try to do as well as I can for whatever they ask me to do," Tebow said.

Taking away his record breaking 40 yard run would still leave him with, 38 rushing yards.

His combined offense was 216 yds with 2 TD's in his freakin' first start, not at home, but in the Black Hole. For a little perspective on those stats, that's twice as many TD's as Elway got in his first THREE freakin' starts!

And I can show everyone exactly WHY you demand that we take 2 plays out of Tim's game stats:

"The NFL has been around for 90 years, and until Tebow came along, only two quarterbacks the similarly Michael Vick (2002) and Kordell Stewart (2000) had rushed for a 40-yard touchdown and thrown for a 30+ yard score in the same game. Tebow pulled off the accomplishment in the first quarter of his first start. How great is that?"

"I thought he did OK," Raiders Pro Bow CB N.Asomugha said. "I thought his throws were on the money. And I thought he ran well." He broke two tackles during his 40 yard run and then carried another defender into the endzone for the TD. -- Denver Post

While Tim is not as 'smooth' as a 7th year Vet, he still had a better winning % than Orton did in 2010.
In 9 of 13 games, Orton FAILED to even put up 21 pts.
In 3 games, Tebow put up at least 21 pts EVERY SINGLE TIME.
==========================
Combined comments from various media sources at the time: (not jmoho)

On exhibit through the RAIN and CHILL Sunday afternoon was a greatness of will, great athleticism and far greater hope that the Broncos will have better days ahead.
There was ultraconservative play-calling (by coaches) too, along with the typically horrific Denver defense.

It was 3rd-and-24 at Oakland's 40-yard line on Denver's third possession in the first quarter when the inevitable happened: Tebow went Tebow and ran right up the middle for a touchdown.
The cheers that erupted were heard around the world. What happened next on Denver's next possession wasn't suppose to happen. On second down, Tebow dropped back and threw the ball downfield for a 33-yard touchdown to Brandon Lloyd.

The Broncos (coaches) didn't ask (let) Tebow to do much. Perhaps the catch phrase "he managed the game" is the best way to describe Tebow's performance. That being said, one may argue that Tebow didn't lose the game for Denver, but his teammates failed to show up. (Denver's defense yielded 502 yards, and two long TDs)

The Broncos faithful and NFL got a look at what the Gator Nation has known all along, and that is Tim Tebow is a leader. He is a competitor. And, he will continue to get better. The big question remains: Will his teammates improve along with him? Time will only tell. -- Bleacher Report

========================

Oh btw, consensus also claimed that Tebow would get killed running the ball against NFL defenses.
But didn't he get to start 3 games because Orton got his ribs cracked?
So much for staying in the pocket being any safer.....

Tebow was injured out of just one game in his 55 game UF career.
He was blind side blasted by a blitzing LB while STANDING IN THE POCKET on a pass play.
He left that game (mild concussion but UF won anyway) and he was back starting in UF's next game.

It is absolutely hilarious that you hang your entire argument on 1 game.

Beantown Bronco
09-01-2011, 01:24 PM
It is absolutely hilarious that you hang your entire argument on 1 game.

Not even one game. Just two plays from one game.

bowtown
09-01-2011, 02:08 PM
Not even one game. Just two plays from one game.

A game we lost.

Dedhed
09-01-2011, 02:15 PM
It is absolutely hilarious that you hang your entire argument on 1 game.

It's equally funny that Orton supporters hang their argument on 6 years of below average QB play.

DBroncos4life
09-01-2011, 02:18 PM
Has anyone's bitching bumped Orton from the starting QB yet??

OABB
09-01-2011, 02:49 PM
Has anyone's b****ing bumped Orton from the starting QB yet??

no. Im working on it though. I want to win games this year.

TailgateNut
09-01-2011, 02:55 PM
no. Im working on it though. I want to win games this year.

What position do you play sweetheart?

Momentum
09-01-2011, 03:24 PM
Orton's winning percentage was .231 and he got all of the preseason and season 1st team reps.

Tebow's winning percentage was .333 and he got NADA but a weeks practice and thrown in the game.

Is that just a 'moral' victory or is it an 'actual' better winning percentage?
============

Hey, for those that want to claim that Tim's 3 starts are not going to show anything, riddle me this:

Elway's 1st 3 starts = 1 TD to 3 Ints for a .33 to 1 ratio.
Elways Rookie season = 7 TD's to 14 Ints, for a .50 to 1 ratio.
Started with a negative ratio and finished with a slightly better but still negative ratio.
So, we should rightly expect that Tebow would have also gotten at least a little better with a full season?

Tebow 4 TD's to 3 Ints 1.33 to 1 ratio.
Since he already had a POSITIVE TD to INT Ratio.

Man you're dancing around my point. Who won the Oakland game? And who quarterbacked it?

missingnumber7
09-02-2011, 09:35 PM
It's equally funny that Orton supporters hang their argument on 6 years of below average QB play.

Actually, I believe the term is a game manager, not below average.

OABB
09-02-2011, 09:50 PM
What position do you play sweetheart?

designated booer.