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Mile High Mojoe
08-25-2011, 09:50 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18752495

Leave it to Woody to bring back some sanity to the Tebow debate. Tebow's biggest critics are a bunch of losers who only wish they had half of his talent and determination when they played. Boomer and Hodge are morons.

Best stat in the article about Orton: "Orton has lost eight of nine, 14 of 17 and 17 of his past 22 starts." Nuff said.

I honestly believe the whole Tebow thing is personal. Not by the Broncos organization, not by Fox or Elway because I believe he's not going anywhere and eventually he’ll start but by the media and some fans. They hate him because he's openly Christian and because he's made some money selling jerseys and commercials. The Lib sports media and some Boulder, CO Libs who are so called Broncos fans hate him for these 2 reasons alone.

The Broncos win a meaningless preseason game against the Bills one of the worst teams in all of football and suddenly Orton is a solid starter? COME ON!!! I can’t wait to see these haters eat their words by mid-season when Tebow is starting and Orton is sitting on the bench sulking because the Broncos are 2-6.

Smiling Assassin27
08-25-2011, 09:57 AM
OR...

what if Tim really is, for the moment, the 3rd best qb on the team? what if he's not ready and legitimately could use another season holding a clipboard, assimilating the playbook, and sharpening his footwork? see, these possibilities really ARE possible, and based on what fox/elway have said and done, are probable.

the media fueled critics may or may not have an axe to grind based on ideology, et al, and most certainly SOME do. but part of the media wrongly believes tim is ready now and that he 'is just a winner', as if using that argument proves their point that he should be out there in a new system. the key is going to be tebow himself. if he can put the hatchet jobs of guys like boomer and hodge out of his head and simply do what he's doing--working hard, studying, and getting better--then he'll be better for it. i'm sure he's chomping at the bit but he's also not the kind of guy that feels entitled to the starting qb slot if he doesn't deserve it.

hang in timmy, time is your friend, not your enemy.

bowtown
08-25-2011, 09:58 AM
Woody backs a lot of stupid ****.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-25-2011, 09:58 AM
Politics, religion AND Tebow in one thread? Winning!

Mile High Mojoe
08-25-2011, 10:03 AM
OR...

what if Tim really is, for the moment, the 3rd best qb on the team? what if he's not ready and legitimately could use another season holding a clipboard, assimilating the playbook, and sharpening his footwork? see, these possibilities really ARE possible, and based on what fox/elway have said and done, are probable.

the media fueled critics may or may not have an axe to grind based on ideology, et al, and most certainly SOME do. but part of the media wrongly believes tim is ready now and that he 'is just a winner', as if using that argument proves their point that he should be out there in a new system. the key is going to be tebow himself. if he can put the hatchet jobs of guys like boomer and hodge out of his head and simply do what he's doing--working hard, studying, and getting better--then he'll be better for it. i'm sure he's chomping at the bit but he's also not the kind of guy that feels entitled to the starting qb slot if he doesn't deserve it.

hang in timmy, time is your friend, not your enemy.

Tebow may not be ready I agree but the criticism has been so disproportionate itís unbelievable. Some Broncos fans donít know nor give a damn whether heís ready or not they want to publicly destroy and humiliate him period.

Smiling Assassin27
08-25-2011, 10:05 AM
Politics, religion AND Tebow in one thread? Winning!


only thing missing is Lady Gaga..allow me.

http://goofygifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/funny-celebrities-lady-gaga.gif

Dagmar
08-25-2011, 10:05 AM
It's the backlash against the backlash against the backlash.

bowtown
08-25-2011, 10:06 AM
Leave it to Woody to bring back some sanity to the Tebow debate.

Never has a more ridiculous statement been uttered.

TailgateNut
08-25-2011, 10:07 AM
Tebow may not be ready I agree but the criticism has been so disproportionate itís unbelievable. Some Broncos fans donít know nor give a damn whether heís ready or not they want THEY WANT HIM TO BE STARTING QB him period.

FIFY

Smiling Assassin27
08-25-2011, 10:09 AM
Tebow may not be ready I agree but the criticism has been so disproportionate itís unbelievable. Some Broncos fans donít know nor give a damn whether heís ready or not they want to publicly destroy and humiliate him period.

yeah, i hear ya. that's why i said that a lot of this will hinge on how tim handles it all. tim's also got a legion (pun intended) of devoted fanatics who will soften the blow, but the bottom line is whether he can play well at this level or not. nothing will change until we find this out.

Ambiguous
08-25-2011, 10:11 AM
Woody was also calling for Simms to be the starter in 2008 before Orton got injured, we saw how that ended.

This has more to do with creating controversy and generating internet traffic than actual analysis.

TheReverend
08-25-2011, 10:13 AM
This is completely new and hasn't been posted anywhere else.

Mile High Mojoe
08-25-2011, 10:14 AM
yeah, i hear ya. that's why i said that a lot of this will hinge on how tim handles it all. tim's also got a legion (pun intended) of devoted fanatics who will soften the blow, but the bottom line is whether he can play well at this level or not. nothing will change until we find this out.
I'm just afraid the ground swell is to get rid of him, that would be one the biggest mistake the Broncos may ever make. One day Tebow is going to be a great QB and I just hope it's with the Broncos.

ColoradoDarin
08-25-2011, 10:15 AM
Woody was also calling for Simms to be the starter in 2008 before Orton got injured, we saw how that ended.

This has more to do with creating controversy and generating internet traffic than actual analysis.

Woody may be wrong about who should be the QB, but he's got one thing right then and now. Orton sucks.

baja
08-25-2011, 10:16 AM
I don't get it. Everybody knew Tebow was going to be a project with huge upside if he panned out from before the draft. Now in his second (lockout shortened) year he is suposed to be the starter and it's some kind of Bronco's conspiracy that he isn't. Geez

ant1999e
08-25-2011, 10:17 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18752495

Leave it to Woody to bring back some sanity to the Tebow debate. Tebow's biggest critics are a bunch of losers who only wish they had half of his talent and determination when they played. Boomer and Hodge are morons.

Best stat in the article about Orton: "Orton has lost eight of nine, 14 of 17 and 17 of his past 22 starts." Nuff said.

I honestly believe the whole Tebow thing is personal. Not by the Broncos organization, not by Fox or Elway because I believe he's not going anywhere and eventually heíll start but by the media and some fans. They hate him because he's openly Christian and because he's made some money selling jerseys and commercials. The Lib sports media and some Boulder, CO Libs who are so called Broncos fans hate him for these 2 reasons alone.

The Broncos win a meaningless preseason game against the Bills one of the worst teams in all of football and suddenly Orton is a solid starter? COME ON!!! I canít wait to see these haters eat their words by mid-season when Tebow is starting and Orton is sitting on the bench sulking because the Broncos are 2-6.

This!!!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-25-2011, 10:20 AM
I'm just afraid the ground swell is to get rid of him, that would be one the biggest mistake the Broncos may ever make. One day Tebow is going to be a great QB and I just hope it's with the Broncos.

You should look around. If anything, the "groundswell" is for him to be the starter, and if he's not the starter, then the team is going to cut him and OH MY GOD I CAN'T TAKE IT IF TIM ISN'T THE STARTER AND ITS ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS RELIGION!!!!!

He can be effective, and perhaps MORE effective, coming off the bench in short yardage and goal line situations. You know, the ways he can help the team win RIGHT NOW. How's that a bad thing?

Smiling Assassin27
08-25-2011, 10:21 AM
I don't get it. Everybody knew Tebow was going to be a project with huge upside if he panned out from before the draft. Now in his second (lockout shortened) year he is suposed to be the starter and it's some kind of Bronco's conspiracy that he isn't. Geez

Mike Golic had a good point this morning. He said that expectations for Tebow really ought to be about where you, baja, have them. The problem was that McD really screwed him by moving up to the first round to take him, thereby ratcheting those expectations WAY up immediately. First rounders are expected to do something now, third rounders (where tebow was projected in some mocks) are not necessarily.

ColoradoDarin
08-25-2011, 10:22 AM
I don't get it. Everybody knew Tebow was going to be a project with huge upside if he panned out from before the draft. Now in his second (lockout shortened) year he is suposed to be the starter and it's some kind of Bronco's conspiracy that he isn't. Geez

Probably because when he was just thrown into the game as a rookie, he outplayed Orton. I'd rather not have to go through that again.

OABB
08-25-2011, 10:29 AM
You should look around. If anything, the "groundswell" is for him to be the starter, and if he's not the starter, then the team is going to cut him and OH MY GOD I CAN'T TAKE IT IF TIM ISN'T THE STARTER AND ITS ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS RELIGION!!!!!

He can be effective, and perhaps MORE effective, coming off the bench in short yardage and goal line situations. You know, the ways he can help the team win RIGHT NOW. How's that a bad thing?

it's not a bad thing. Tebow said yesterday he is happy to help the team in whatever way they need him. The problem with it is that the team has to get into the redzone first. that requires picking up third downs and not sacking oneself at the sight of a defender.

CEH
08-25-2011, 10:33 AM
Here's what I see.

Orton will most likley get injured some point. He has zero pocket presence and a history of not being able to complete 16 games.

The offense will start out fast as team adjust to what they are running

After 4 games, DCs will force Orton to make plays in the red zone. He will fail just like the other years. Games will be closer and the spotlight will firmly be shown on Orton. No more running game or defense excuses. Both units will be more than adequate that will be what Fox

Tebow will get to play

If I'm wrong then we should be able to compete for the division

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-25-2011, 10:38 AM
it's not a bad thing. Tebow said yesterday he is happy to help the team in whatever way they need him. The problem with it is that the team has to get into the redzone first. that requires picking up third downs and not sacking oneself at the sight of a defender.

Seems like we have been getting to the red zone for years. The problem has been capitalizing on those opportunities. And this goes back to the Shanahan/Cutler years.

So if Tebow doesn't mind sacrificing a little time for the good of the team, will his followers do likewise?

alkemical
08-25-2011, 10:39 AM
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/amesj523/Mirror/thumbs_100603.gif

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-25-2011, 10:41 AM
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/amesj523/Mirror/thumbs_100603.gif

Oooooh.

jhns
08-25-2011, 10:47 AM
Tebow outplayed Orton by a lot last season. This is a fact. It is sad to see that the QB problem in Carolina is going to folliw Fox here. What can you do? Some coaches don't like good QB play. It is just sad to see that we got rid of a guy who didn't believe the film and replaced him with a guy that doesn't believe what the film is showing them. Hopefully his defensive knowledge makes up for it.

baja
08-25-2011, 10:53 AM
Probably because when he was just thrown into the game as a rookie, he outplayed Orton. I'd rather not have to go through that again.

..and the staff of coaches that work about 16 hours a day have somehow missed that but you, watching from your couch, didn't?

jhns
08-25-2011, 10:56 AM
..and the staff of coaches that work about 16 hours a day have somehow missed that but you, watching from your couch, didn't?

Are you claiming he didn't outplay Orton?

TheReverend
08-25-2011, 10:59 AM
Since it corresponds to this article:

Possibly, and though I dislike KO, there's no WAY the 17 # is accurate either.

Orton alone threw for 13 TDs in the opponents RZ.

So to claim that between RZ rushing TDs, RZ Tebow use during Ortons starts, etc only account for 4 more TDs is silly.

I'm gonna look deeper at any possible validity here, but I think that's a grossly exaggerated and flat out wrong # on both accounts.

Broncos redzone scoring 2010

The only players to score in the RZ were (not counting receiving)
Orton: 13 TDs
Tebow: 8 TDs
Moreno: 5 TDs
Buckhalter: 2 TDs

Total: 28/51 Redzone appearances (which should be on because it's really close to our RZ scoring %)

So if the article was right and Tim was 6/8 in his 3 starts, then that would leave Kyle at 22/43

But since the article is already showing terrible fact checking, I'll double check and brb

Okay, his Tebow stats are off as well, but much closer this time:

Tthe Broncos went 6/9 in the RZ (there was a tricky play in Houston where we broke into the RZ at the 19 yard line, lost 3 yards in a sack and then scored on a 20+ yard play.

Anyway, 6/9 out of a year total of 28/51 puts it at 22/42.

52% vs 67%

Oh and the 52% is a big improvement over 09's season and most likely due to garbage time production. But I'm sick of looking at numbers for now so someone else can break that down if they want.

baja
08-25-2011, 11:15 AM
Are you claiming he didn't outplay Orton?

I'm saying there is more to the equation than you are privy to

...and the players concur with the coaches on this. So you think you know more than all the coaches and many players?

maher_tyler
08-25-2011, 11:17 AM
OR...

what if Tim really is, for the moment, the 3rd best qb on the team? what if he's not ready and legitimately could use another season holding a clipboard, assimilating the playbook, and sharpening his footwork? see, these possibilities really ARE possible, and based on what fox/elway have said and done, are probable.

the media fueled critics may or may not have an axe to grind based on ideology, et al, and most certainly SOME do. but part of the media wrongly believes tim is ready now and that he 'is just a winner', as if using that argument proves their point that he should be out there in a new system. the key is going to be tebow himself. if he can put the hatchet jobs of guys like boomer and hodge out of his head and simply do what he's doing--working hard, studying, and getting better--then he'll be better for it. i'm sure he's chomping at the bit but he's also not the kind of guy that feels entitled to the starting qb slot if he doesn't deserve it.

hang in timmy, time is your friend, not your enemy.

I agree! He needs more time to develope and thats what they're doing. Seemed to work out pretty well for Rodgers.

ColoradoDarin
08-25-2011, 11:19 AM
..and the staff of coaches that work about 16 hours a day have somehow missed that but you, watching from your couch, didn't?

Somehow you missed that we changed coaches? Those are same people who said that we're going to trade Orton and play Tebow this season.

2KBack
08-25-2011, 11:20 AM
Seems like we have been getting to the red zone for years. The problem has been capitalizing on those opportunities. And this goes back to the Shanahan/Cutler years.

So if Tebow doesn't mind sacrificing a little time for the good of the team, will his followers do likewise?

It goes back further than that. There were debates about how Shanny/Kubiak would go "Nintendo offense" during the Griese years too. The Redzone issue has been around for a while now.

baja
08-25-2011, 11:22 AM
Somehow you missed that we changed coaches? Those are same people who said that we're going to trade Orton and play Tebow this season.

That is certainly is a head scratcher. and bothersome. If that is the whole story and we don't know that it is it certainly speaks to gross incompetence.

The coach that should know the best, the OC is still here.

Dedhed
08-25-2011, 11:30 AM
I'm just afraid the ground swell is to get rid of him, that would be one the biggest mistake the Broncos may ever make. One day Tebow is going to be a great QB and I just hope it's with the Broncos.
He will be. The ground swell is nothing more than media hacks riding a trend. It has nothing to do with what's actually going on inside the organization.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-25-2011, 11:34 AM
He will be.

Hope you're right. Just not seeing it yet, and I think he needs more time.

I also think he could be an absolute game-changer as as special packages/goal line QB, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

jhns
08-25-2011, 11:34 AM
I'm saying there is more to the equation than you are privy to

...and the players concur with the coaches on this. So you think you know more than all the coaches and many players?

Well, since we are using made up "facts", Tebow also set every NFL record for QBs and RBs. His production doesn't lie.

AlphaSeirra
08-25-2011, 11:52 AM
Tebow's NFL QB Passer Rating:

Rookie = 82.1 (#1 2010 Rookie Passer Rating)
Rushing 5.3 ypc with 6 rushing TD's (Broncos leading runner)
* Rushing 6.4 ypc with 3 TD's as the starter.


2011 Preseason Passer Rating = 113.4 (best of the Broncos)
He is 7 of 9 (77.8%) for 101 yds, (best wiht 14.4 yds/comp)
Rushing 7.25 ypc (nada for those others)


So, even with little to no practice time or game time with the starters,
and virtually no off season time with the Denver coaching staff,
Tim has still produced the best >on the field< in the preseason games.

Are Tim's critics just to lazy or to stupid to look at the actual on the field production of the 3 QB's?


2011 Preseason NFL QB Passer Ratings:
Quinn - 95.1
Orton - 110.0 (with the 1st team (Lloyd & Royal) in practice and games)
Tebow - 113.4 (practice and game time with 3rd teamers & scrubs)


Passing Accuracy Questions:
Quinn 60.0%
Orton 63.2 %
Tebow 77.8%


Yards Per Attempt:
Quinn 8.3 yds
Orton 9.1 yds
Tebow 11.2 yds


Long Pass Completion:
Quinn 26 yds
Orton 29 yds
Tebow 43 yds

--------------


"he's also not the kind of guy that feels entitled to the starting qb slot if he doesn't deserve it."


Everyone is entitled to their own 'opinions' on the subject,,,,
>>> but the facts/stats are irrefutable on who the deserving one is.
--------------


"but the bottom line is whether he can play well at this level or not.
nothing will change until we find this out."

"Now in his second (lockout shortened) year he is suposed to be the starter and it's some kind of Bronco's conspiracy that he isn't. Geez"


Two more who are obviously unable to look at game stats and performance to determine anything....
-------------


"First rounders are expected to do something now, third rounders (where tebow was projected in some mocks) are not necessarily."


Yeah? Then how come Bradford didn't get hammered for a lower NFL Passer Rating than Tebow had for 2010?


And why is Scam Newton not getting hammered for his GROSS inaccuracy?

2 Preseason Games with 1 as the Starter:

Passing - 15 of 33 (45.5%) for 200 yds, (6.0 yds/att, 13.3 yds/comp) TD 0, Int 0 Sack 2 for 16, 8 yds/sac.

Rushing - 4 for 18 yds, 4.5 ypc, TD 0, Fum 0


PS
Tim's 'off the field religion' should never even come into any of the 'football' discussions imoho.

ozomulsion
08-25-2011, 11:58 AM
They hate him because he's openly Christian and because he's made some money selling jerseys and commercials. The Lib sports media and some Boulder, CO Libs who are so called Broncos fans hate him for these 2 reasons alone.


OH no!! It'll be hard to say something dumber than that.

alkemical
08-25-2011, 12:00 PM
OH no!! It'll be hard to say something dumber than that.

Over/under on that?

JaiDubs
08-25-2011, 12:01 PM
Those are same people who said that we're going to trade Orton and play Tebow this season.

If Orton was traded and Tebow was made the starter going into camp. There would have been a good chance that the way he has been performing so far that Quinn could have usurped as the starter and he would be the back up at that point. Then the team would be going into the season with the same issues they have now with Tebowites whining Quinn hasn't done x, y and z, he sucks, he doesn't deserve to be the starter. We know what we are getting with Quinn, blah blah blah.

Tebow hasn't shown the coaches he can do what they expect of him at this point. The lack of OTA's haven't helped my progress. He didn't seek out help in the off season like Quinn did. Why can't Tebowites be content to let him sit at least this season. This way he can learn the system, can go into the off season, hit up the OTA's, work on his areas of weakness and go into training camp next season ready to try and take that starting position.

At this point even if he sat, learned the offense, worked all off season and the whole nine and then was named the starter and played poorly, couldn't just cut it after a few seasons and was released. The Tebow congregation would cry that he didn't get a far shake still, he needs more time, he didn't have an O Line, running game, WR's, etc... Everyone else would be the ones to blame but Tebow. The excuses would be endless.

Let things play out, if you don't like it then pick another team to back.

jhns
08-25-2011, 12:03 PM
If Orton was traded and Tebow was made the starter going into camp. There would have been a good chance that the way he has been performing so far that Quinn could have usurped as the starter and he would be the back up at that point. Then the team would be going into the season with the same issues they have now with Tebowites whining Quinn hasn't done x, y and z, he sucks, he doesn't deserve to be the starter. We know what we are getting with Quinn, blah blah blah.

Tebow hasn't shown the coaches he can do what they expect of him at this point. The lack of OTA's haven't helped my progress. He didn't seek out help in the off season like Quinn did. Why can't Tebowites be content to let him sit at least this season. This way he can learn the system, can go into the off season, hit up the OTA's, work on his areas of weakness and go into training camp next season ready to try and take that starting position.

At this point even if he sat, learned the offense, worked all off season and the whole nine and then was named the starter and played poorly, couldn't just cut it after a few seasons and was released. The Tebow congregation would cry that he didn't get a far shake still, he needs more time, he didn't have an O Line, running game, WR's, etc... Everyone else would be the ones to blame but Tebow. The excuses would be endless.

Let things play out, if you don't like it then pick another team to back.

Fact: tmTebow outplayed Orton by a lot in live games.

If you don't like what we are saying, find a new forum to post on.

ozomulsion
08-25-2011, 12:09 PM
Over/under on that?

Don't wanna to be stink bait, but it all depends on how livid one is about our current political situations. ;)

BroncoMan4ever
08-25-2011, 12:10 PM
i understand where Woody is going with this and i am sure Tim appreciates having a reporter who has his back. but really what is the harm in letting him sit one more season? i like Tim and want him to do well, that is why I am fine with him sitting this year.

one of the best traits and abilities Tim has is his confidence in himself. if he gets tossed out there too early and struggles, it could become a David Carr situation where we have a guy with some talent but he became unsure of himself and never matured into anything.

BroncoMan4ever
08-25-2011, 12:18 PM
They hate him because he's openly Christian and because he's made some money selling jerseys and commercials. The Lib sports media and some Boulder, CO Libs who are so called Broncos fans hate him for these 2 reasons alone.


if the whole hate because he was openly christian and still selling jerseys thing were true, fans would absolutely hate Dawkins for the same reasons.

that is one of the dumber things i have ever read in a woody paige article

JaiDubs
08-25-2011, 12:19 PM
Straight to the insults, great way to debate. Defensive much? Are you the House Speaker of the forum and speak for all when you say we? Are you the same type of fan who uses the term "we" when talking about the teams you root for even though you are and never have been a player, coach, employee of the team?

I'm not a rabid fan of Tebow's, nor am I a rabid hater. I'm a fan of the Broncos. I'll wait and see how things pan out and continue to cheer for the team. I'm a realist, not an idealist.

Tebow has played well in 3 regular season games and a little over one third of 1 preseason game. Yes he has played better than Orton, but hedging everything on such a small sample size of data and claiming he'll be great or even a bust, or he will be better than Orton or any thing else of the like is asinine. He'll need to play quite a bit to draw any firm conclusions be it good or bad. Just like the stats AlphaSeirra used they are such a small sample size they really mean or prove nothing at this point. There have been many a player in the NFL or any other sport that have a few good games (yes even early on) and then never show much after that.

Let things play out and then come back with some meaningful stats to back your opinions.

Mogulseeker
08-25-2011, 12:20 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18752495

Leave it to Woody to bring back some sanity to the Tebow debate. Tebow's biggest critics are a bunch of losers who only wish they had half of his talent and determination when they played. Boomer and Hodge are morons.

Best stat in the article about Orton: "Orton has lost eight of nine, 14 of 17 and 17 of his past 22 starts." Nuff said.

I honestly believe the whole Tebow thing is personal. Not by the Broncos organization, not by Fox or Elway because I believe he's not going anywhere and eventually heíll start but by the media and some fans. They hate him because he's openly Christian and because he's made some money selling jerseys and commercials. The Lib sports media and some Boulder, CO Libs who are so called Broncos fans hate him for these 2 reasons alone.

The Broncos win a meaningless preseason game against the Bills one of the worst teams in all of football and suddenly Orton is a solid starter? COME ON!!! I canít wait to see these haters eat their words by mid-season when Tebow is starting and Orton is sitting on the bench sulking because the Broncos are 2-6.

I have an extreme dislike for evangelical Christians. I am a moderate Christian who gets fed up with evangelical piety that ultimately turns people away from the faith (see: Rob Bell). That said I like Tebow and want him to start eventually, but Orton is a better QB and will win more games for the Broncos this year, and therefore needs to start. It's called reason.

Mogulseeker
08-25-2011, 12:22 PM
if the whole hate because he was openly christian and still selling jerseys thing were true, fans would absolutely hate Dawkins for the same reasons.

that is one of the dumber things i have ever read in a woody paige article

Dawkins is an evangelical Christian, as is Brady Quinn.... so was Jason Elam. I think John Elway is too. And judging by some of his facebook posts, I would guess that Eddie Royal is also an evangelical Christian.

OABB
08-25-2011, 12:22 PM
That said I like Tebow and want him to start eventually, but Orton is a better QB and will win more games for the Broncos this year, and therefore needs to start. It's called not being able to pay attention to facts.

fyp

jhns
08-25-2011, 12:24 PM
Straight to the insults, great way to debate. Defensive much? Are you the House Speaker of the forum and speak for all when you say we? Are you the same type of fan who uses the term "we" when talking about the teams you root for even though you are and never have been a player, coach, employee of the team?

I'm not a rabid fan of Tebow's, nor am I a rabid hater. I'm a fan of the Broncos. I'll wait and see how things pan out and continue to cheer for the team. I'm a realist, not an idealist.

Tebow has played well in 3 regular season games and a little over one third of 1 preseason game. Yes he has played better than Orton, but hedging everything on such a small sample size of data and claiming he'll be great or even a bust, or he will be better than Orton or any thing else of the like is asinine. He'll need to play quite a bit to draw any firm conclusions be it good or bad. Just like the stats AlphaSeirra used they are such a small sample size they really mean or prove nothing at this point. There have been many a player in the NFL or any other sport that have a few good games (yes even early on) and then never show much after that.

Let things play out and then come back with some meaningful stats to back your opinions.

We, as in the people saying things you are crying about.

What a smart guy... "Yes he outplayed Orton, but he shouldn't start just because!"

Of course, it is no dumber than a Bronco fan trying to claim that you must always agree with the team. Did yu just become a fan yesterday? I can't believe I still read that crap after the past two years...

JaiDubs
08-25-2011, 12:26 PM
if the whole hate because he was openly christian and still selling jerseys thing were true, fans would absolutely hate Dawkins for the same reasons.

that is one of the dumber things i have ever read in a woody paige article

Exactly.

Do his rabid fans only really like him because he is a Christian? Would they back him with such virulent furor if he wasn't outspoken about his religious beliefs.

Christian or not, even religious or not. This shouldn't matter either way.

Get real people. Being Christian doesn't make him and better person or player than those player who aren't. There are good people who aren't religious and their are bad, but there are also bad people who are religious and there are good.

Bringing up the "they hate him because of his beliefs" is stupid and should be dropped.

Stagger Lee
08-25-2011, 12:30 PM
Steve Buerlein weighing in now, huh? I guess he would know what it is to be closer to a 3rd stringer than a starter.

ozomulsion
08-25-2011, 12:32 PM
Exactly.

Do his rabid fans only really like him because he is a Christian? Would they back him with such virulent furor if he wasn't outspoken about his religious beliefs.

Christian or not, even religious or not. This shouldn't matter either way.

Get real people. Being Christian doesn't make him and better person or player than those player who aren't. There are good people who aren't religious and their are bad, but there are also bad people who are religious and there are good.

Bringing up the "they hate him because of his beliefs" is stupid and should be dropped.

Sorry NUB <--(first time I've ever used NUB) Anyhow, when Woody says some crap as dumb as that. It can, will, should, and will always be pointed out. Welcome to the Mane!!

TonyR
08-25-2011, 12:33 PM
I have an extreme dislike for evangelical Christians. I am a moderate Christian who gets fed up with evangelical piety that ultimately turns people away from the faith (see: Rob Bell). That said I like Tebow and want him to start eventually, but Orton is a better QB and will win more games for the Broncos this year, and therefore needs to start. It's called reason.

I agree. I think the "people hate him because he's a Christian" is way over played. Is it a factor with some people? I suppose. But it certainly isn't the reason driving the media pile on we're watching. I think it has more to do with him being perceived as a golden boy who did nothing but win in college, and did it in a somewhat unconventional way. The mantra was always that he'd never be a good pro QB. Everyone who hated Tebow and the Gators said it, most of the analysts/"experts" said it. Now they jump on every opportunity to say how right they were by piling on to "adversity", whether it's truly adversity or not. Tim's used to the hate. He faced it all through college, although at least the fans of his team unanimously supported him unlike Broncos fans. The biggest difference for him now is that he hasn't been able to take the job and prove the doubters wrong. So hopefully that is just extra motivation for him if nothing else.

PRBronco
08-25-2011, 12:37 PM
Steve Buerlein weighing in now, huh? I guess he would know what it is to be closer to a 3rd stringer than a starter.

That's so crazy that he would choose the QB with a complete lack of mobility, right?

Dedhed
08-25-2011, 12:37 PM
Why can't Tebowites be content to let him sit at least this season.

Two very valid reasons.

1- He has shown already that despite all the things he has been criticized of this off-season he was still more successful at scoring points than Orton.

2- We need to know what Tebow truly brings to the table. Orton supporters are quick to point out the sample size of Tebow as a starter. A valid point. We need to have a legitimate sample size to know what Tebow's true value is. We need to know what that value is before this season ends so that we can make an educated decision about whether to select one of the 3 great QB prospects likely to be available in the 2012 draft.

There are two nightmare scenarios regarding starting Orton over Tebow.

1- We draft Landry Jones (insert Barkley or Luck as well) because we haven't seen enough of Tebow to be confident he can be the QBOTF. Tebow goes on to be the stud he was in college with another team and leads them to 5 Titles.

2- We don't draft Landry Jones (insert Bakley or Luck as well) because we take it on faith that Tebow is the guy and he'll be able to become a great QB in this league and then all the criticism turns out to be true and he fails. Then we're looking to try to find a starter in 2013 after having passed on what looks like one of the best QB classes in years in 2012.

Neither is possible if we start him this year.

Worst possible scenario for starting Tebow; the Broncos go 0-16 and get their pick of Luck, Barkley, and Landry to lead the team into the future.

Rock Chalk
08-25-2011, 12:40 PM
The Christian thing has nothing to do with it. Im openly Christian and I do not want Tebow on the team. That's a fallacious argument made by idiots.

JaiDubs
08-25-2011, 12:41 PM
We, as in the people saying things you are crying about.

What a smart guy... "Yes he outplayed Orton, but he shouldn't start just because!"

Of course, it is no dumber than a Bronco fan trying to claim that you must always agree with the team. Did yu just become a fan yesterday? I can't believe I still read that crap after the past two years...

So you speak for them also? Ok good to know, I'm sure they appreciate it. Keep up the insults, it's really becoming of you.

DON'T LIKE CIVIL DISCUSSIONS
[Rabid Fan]
SLING INSULTS

He outplayed him for a few games, three..... But does that mean he's the better QB right now, one who has a better grasp of the offense, and is the best option to win for the team? No. You could pick 3 games in the season last year where Orton outplayed Tebow. I can play this game. The small sample size and limited number of games doesn't prove he'll be great or bad.

Orton's stats from games 2-4 last season.

http://i.imgur.com/qK9At.jpg

I never said I agree with what the team does, but I know they are better evaluators of talent than the arm chair QBs at home. They don't believe he is ready yet. Give it time.

Did I become a fan yesterday? Is that all you got, come on you can do better than that. And to answer the question. No, far from it.

DrFate
08-25-2011, 12:44 PM
There are two nightmare scenarios regarding starting Orton over Tebow.

1- We draft Landry Jones (insert Barkley or Luck as well) because we haven't seen enough of Tebow to be confident he can be the QBOTF. Tebow goes on to be the stud he was in college with another team and leads them to 5 Titles.

2- We don't draft Landry Jones (insert Bakley or Luck as well) because we take it on faith that Tebow is the guy and he'll be able to become a great QB in this league and then all the criticism turns out to be true and he fails. Then we're looking to try to find a starter in 2013 after having passed on what looks like one of the best QB classes in years in 2012.

Neither is possible if we start him this year.

Worst possible scenario for starting Tebow; the Broncos go 0-16 and get their pick of Luck, Barkley, and Landry to lead the team into the future.

It amazes me that the Orton following can't understand this. The most likely scenario RIGHT NOW is Orton plays, the team goes 3-10, Tebow finishes the final 3 games and impresses some (but not others) and we go into draft season 2012 without any idea who the QBoTF is. Sound familiar?

Rock Chalk
08-25-2011, 12:48 PM
It amazes me that the Orton following can't understand this. The most likely scenario RIGHT NOW is Orton plays, the team goes 3-10, Tebow finishes the final 3 games and impresses some (but not others) and we go into draft season 2012 without any idea who the QBoTF is. Sound familiar?

I disagree that is the most likely scenario. In fact, I think thats an absolute worst case scenario.

IMO the most likely scenario is to finish around 8-8. With optimism its Denvers turn to go from last to first in the NFL.

But by all means, pull a Frenchman and surrender before the fight has even begun.

Stagger Lee
08-25-2011, 12:49 PM
It amazes me that the Orton following can't understand this. The most likely scenario RIGHT NOW is Orton plays, the team goes 3-10, Tebow finishes the final 3 games and impresses some (but not others) and we go into draft season 2012 without any idea who the QBoTF is. Sound familiar?

It's like deja vu, all over again.

jhns
08-25-2011, 12:52 PM
So you speak for them also? Ok good to know, I'm sure they appreciate it. Keep up the insults, it's really becoming of you.

DON'T LIKE CIVIL DISCUSSIONS
[Rabid Fan]
SLING INSULTS

He outplayed him for a few games, three..... But does that mean he's the better QB right now, one who has a better grasp of the offense, and is the best option to win for the team? No. You could pick 3 games in the season last year where Orton outplayed Tebow. I can play this game. The small sample size and limited number of games doesn't prove he'll be great or bad.

Orton's stats from games 2-4 last season.

http://i.imgur.com/qK9At.jpg

I never said I agree with what the team does, but I know they are better evaluators of talent than the arm chair QBs at home. They don't believe he is ready yet. Give it time.

Did I become a fan yesterday? Is that all you got, come on you can do better than that. And to answer the question. No, far from it.

The offense was not as productive in those three games. No one cares that Orton can make a few long throws. The problem is he can't score. You just showed it there. The Tebow led Broncos averaged 25 a game. The only three game stretch that the Orton led Broncos averaged more, is all based on a 49 point game where Tebow scored multiple TDs... The only stretch of three games with 20+ points scored, in the oast two years, came when Tebow was in...

How do you know they evaluate talent better? Fox has not had good QB play. Elway is new to the whole front office thing. The rest of the front office was here driving the franchise into the fround the past two years because they didn't know talent...

Again, it is pretty obvious that you are a new fan. No one that watched this franchise for the last two years would be making these claims that the franchise always knows best.

The only way to talk to a moron like you is to insult you. Sorry, just the way it is. Maybe you should stop acting like a three year old with the fan card bull****.

jhns
08-25-2011, 12:53 PM
I disagree that is the most likely scenario. In fact, I think thats an absolute worst case scenario.

IMO the most likely scenario is to finish around 8-8. With optimism its Denvers turn to go from last to first in the NFL.

But by all means, pull a Frenchman and surrender before the fight has even begun.

Surrender by playing the guy that has proven to produce better? Is that a serious post?

DrFate
08-25-2011, 12:54 PM
IMO the most likely scenario is to finish around 8-8. With optimism its Denvers turn to go from last to first in the NFL.


I'll don your orange-and-blue-colored glasses for a minute. :peace:

Let's say the team finishes 8-8. Misses the playoffs. Orton has numbers on par to last year but the raw yards/TDs are down because of the difference in system. (say 3100 yards, 17 TDs, 10 INTs)

Does he get signed long term to a contract similiar to one Kolb got / Orton has already asked for? (You realize his contract is up)

If not - does the team pass on any QB options in the draft and plan on Tebow in 2012? Or is he cast aside and Denver drafts Laundry or Barkley or whomever?

baja
08-25-2011, 12:58 PM
Exactly.

Do his rabid fans only really like him because he is a Christian? Would they back him with such virulent furor if he wasn't outspoken about his religious beliefs.

Christian or not, even religious or not. This shouldn't matter either way.

Get real people. Being Christian doesn't make him and better person or player than those player who aren't. There are good people who aren't religious and their are bad, but there are also bad people who are religious and there are good.

Bringing up the "they hate him because of his beliefs" is stupid and should be dropped.

I think he got laid this summer and ever since has been distracted from what used to be his only passion.

ozomulsion
08-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Surrender by playing the guy that has proven to produce better? Is that a serious post?

Our defense had very little to do with Orton's record last year right? Our D will not be improved from last year, right?

You would have to say both of those statements are correct for your Orton 3-10 record logic to make any sense.

jhns
08-25-2011, 01:01 PM
Our defense had very little to do with Orton's record last year right? Our D will not be improved from last year, right?

You would have to say both of those statements are correct for Orton's 3-10
record logic to make any sense.

I mentioned the teams record? What, was I claiming 1-2 is that much better?

This is what I am talking about, copied and pasted from an old post of mine:

Here are the facts. In live games, the Tebow led Broncos were seventh in the league in points per game. The Orton led Bronvos were 20th in the league in PPG. Tebow had less help from RBs than Orton did.

Now for the, "It was only three games!" argument. It was only three games. Tebow did play two teams that Orton played though. This team scored a lot more with Tebow in both games. The lack of excessive three and outs also contributed to much better defensive performances. All three games that Tebow started saw at least 20 points scored. Orton doesn't have a three game stretch of 20+ point games in his two years here. Only one time last season did the Orton led Broncos have a stretch of three games that averaged the 25 ppg the Tebow led Broncos had. This three game stretch is all from a single 49 point game. In that game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter returned a 75 yard fumble for a TD.

baja
08-25-2011, 01:02 PM
The Christian thing has nothing to do with it.<b> Im openly Christian </b>and I do not want Tebow on the team. That's a fallacious argument made by idiots.

and it is so obvious from your posts - signed dirty rotten coward Mexican

alkemical
08-25-2011, 01:02 PM
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/amesj523/th_Image0001.jpg (http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/amesj523/?action=view&current=Image0001.jpg)

Mogulseeker
08-25-2011, 01:08 PM
I agree. I think the "people hate him because he's a Christian" is way over played. Is it a factor with some people? I suppose. But it certainly isn't the reason driving the media pile on we're watching. I think it has more to do with him being perceived as a golden boy who did nothing but win in college, and did it in a somewhat unconventional way. The mantra was always that he'd never be a good pro QB. Everyone who hated Tebow and the Gators said it, most of the analysts/"experts" said it. Now they jump on every opportunity to say how right they were by piling on to "adversity", whether it's truly adversity or not. Tim's used to the hate. He faced it all through college, although at least the fans of his team unanimously supported him unlike Broncos fans. The biggest difference for him now is that he hasn't been able to take the job and prove the doubters wrong. So hopefully that is just extra motivation for him if nothing else.

But does Tim know what it's like NOT to be the man? Being a backup for a couple of years will be good for him.

alkemical
08-25-2011, 01:10 PM
But does Tim know what it's like NOT to be the man? Being a backup for a couple of years will be good for him.

Tim needs to snort a line of X off a snowbunnies belly.

Mogulseeker
08-25-2011, 01:10 PM
fyp

I'm well aware of the facts. Doesn't change the fact that he is 1-3, and can't run a conventional offense. If he can get his accuracy under control, and footwork and throwing motion down, he will be unstoppable.

Dedhed
08-25-2011, 01:10 PM
I disagree that is the most likely scenario. In fact, I think thats an absolute worst case scenario.

IMO the most likely scenario is to finish around 8-8. With optimism its Denvers turn to go from last to first in the NFL.


8-8 is the worst possible scenario, but scarily, the most likely with Orton at the helm.

There would be nothing worse than missing the playoffs, getting a middle tier draft pick, and still knowing nothing about Tebow.

Mogulseeker
08-25-2011, 01:10 PM
Tim needs to snort a line of X off a snowbunnies belly.

LOL, maybe that would be good for him, too.

JaiDubs
08-25-2011, 01:11 PM
How do you know they evaluate talent better? Fox has not had good QB play. Elway is new to the whole front office thing. The rest of the front office was here driving the franchise into the fround the past two years because they didn't know talent...

Again, it is pretty obvious that you are a new fan. No one that watched this franchise for the last two years would be making these claims that the franchise always knows best.

The only way to talk to a moron like you is to insult you. Sorry, just the way it is. Maybe you should stop acting like a three year old with the fan card bull****.

I'll still hedge my bets that EFX, know more than you, I or the other arm chair QB's out there. If think you know more, you should be applying for a new job. McD made a majority of the calls if not all when it came to evaluating the talent and signing players. He had the keys, people like Xanders didn't have much say.

Keep the new fan thing up, it's cute. Going to give the new guy a noogie too? Actually I've been around on the forum longer than you my friend. I came here as a refugee about a 8 years ago after the the RMN and Denver Post Bronco forums went to hell. I've laid low and don't have much time to live my life on the internet during deployments. Created a new username and joined in. BTW born and raised in Fort Collins, Colorado. Saw my first Broncos game as a kid at Mile High in '82 when Steve DeBerg was the QB and opened the season with a loss to San Diego. I survived the DeBerg years. I'll survive the Orton / Tebow years.

Your hostility is humorous.

jhns
08-25-2011, 01:11 PM
I'm well aware of the facts. Doesn't change the fact that he is 1-3, and can't run a conventional offense. If he can get his accuracy under control, and footwork and throwing motion down, he will be unstoppable.

He isn't 1-3 and he can execute an offense better than Orton. This has already been proven.

Dedhed
08-25-2011, 01:15 PM
Do his rabid fans only really like him because he is a Christian?

I think religion is a complete farce. I support Tebow because I think he's a better football player than Orton.

jhns
08-25-2011, 01:16 PM
I'll still hedge my bets that EFX, know more than you, I or the other arm chair QB's out there. If think you know more, you should be applying for a new job. McD made a majority of the calls if not all when it came to evaluating the talent and signing players. He had the keys, people like Xanders didn't have much say.

Keep the new fan thing up, it's cute. Going to give the new guy a noogie too? Actually I've been around on the forum longer than you my friend. I came here as a refugee about a 8 years ago after the the RMN and Denver Post Bronco forums went to hell. I've laid low and don't have much time to live my life on the internet during deployments. Created a new username and joined in. BTW born and raised in Fort Collins, Colorado. Saw my first Broncos game as a kid at Mile High in '82 when Steve DeBerg was the QB and opened the season with a loss to San Diego. I survived the DeBerg years. I'll survive the Orton / Tebow years.

Your hostility is humorous.

You will only keep the hostility going if you keep crying. This only makes it funny to me.

What is really funny is that you are too stupid to see what happened. You claim that anyone that doesn't like something that the team does needs to find a new team. I responded saying that if you don't like our takes, you need to find a new forum. From this, you claim I am insulting you, while you are not insulting everyone that disagrees with the QB position. I simply spun what you said to laugh at you. Cry more.

ozomulsion
08-25-2011, 01:27 PM
I mentioned the teams record? What, was I claiming 1-2 is that much better?

This is what I am talking about, copied and pasted from an old post of mine:

Here are the facts. In live games, the Tebow led Broncos were seventh in the league in points per game. The Orton led Bronvos were 20th in the league in PPG. Tebow had less help from RBs than Orton did.

Now for the, "It was only three games!" argument. It was only three games. Tebow did play two teams that Orton played though. This team scored a lot more with Tebow in both games. The lack of excessive three and outs also contributed to much better defensive performances. All three games that Tebow started saw at least 20 points scored. Orton doesn't have a three game stretch of 20+ point games in his two years here. Only one time last season did the Orton led Broncos have a stretch of three games that averaged the 25 ppg the Tebow led Broncos had. This three game stretch is all from a single 49 point game. In that game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter returned a 75 yard fumble for a TD.

Sorry. I meant to quote Dr Fate about our 3-10 record thing. That response was meant to be directed towards him.

In response to your post. I don't claim a preferred starter either way. I do think it helps most young QBs to sit, watch, and learn. I also think the case to make Tebow a starter is helped quit a bit by facing the 32nd ranked D at the time, in 2 of 3 starts. Even that doesn't figure into my overall reasoning.

I think Tebow is our future, and believe the coaches are doing what's best for him, and our team right now. I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting until he can make reads easier before we throw him in there. What we're doing will make it so he won't have to run it as much and that should reduce his risk of injury. When he does become our starter. Our future is not this year. We are not a playoff team IMO. What you just read is what makes sense to me. We Must/Need to start Tim Now does not, and will not make sense to me at this point & time.

JaiDubs
08-25-2011, 01:29 PM
If agreeing with how the team is handling the Tebow situation at this point is insulting to you and these people you have chosen to speak for is insulting. Then I can see you are a sensitive person and expect people to tread lightly around you.

Cry more? About what? I wasn't crying about anything. Unlike the you and the constant bemoaning of anything that's a minute slight of Tebow in any thread.

If you claim I'm crying.... pot meet kettle. So hostile and bitter. Why?

jhns
08-25-2011, 01:29 PM
Sorry. I meant to quote Dr Fate about our 3-10 record thing. That response was meant to be directed towards him.

In response to your post. I don't claim a preferred starter either way. I do think it helps most young QBs to sit, watch, and learn. I also think the case to make Tebow a starter is helped quit a bit by facing the 32nd ranked D at the time, in 2 of 3 starts. Even that doesn't figure into my overall reasoning.

I think Tebow is our future, and believe the coaches are doing what's best for him, and our team right now. I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting until he can make reads easier before we throw him in there. What we're doing will make it so he won't have to run it as much and that should reduce his risk of injury. When he does become our starter. Our future is not this year. We are not a playoff team IMO. What you just read is what makes sense to me. We Must/Need to start Tim Now does not, and will not make sense to me at this point & time.

That defense argument is pretty lame. He faced the number one defense in the league and faced the two best passing defenses. One of three defenses were bad. Also, the Texans were the 30th ranked defense. We were 32nd...

DrFate
08-25-2011, 01:31 PM
Sorry. I meant to quote Dr Fate about our 3-10 record thing. That response was meant to be directed towards him.


Then I shall read your post and respond appropriately...

Response: what I proposed was clearly presented as a hypothetical result. Whether the actual outcome is 3-10 or 8-8 doesn't change my conclusion at all. Playing Orton doesn't make sense.

You yourself said this isn't a playoff team and that Tebow is the future. If those two things are true, playing Orton makes even less sense at all. Who cares what the whether Tebow would win one or two fewer games than Orton in 2011?

I think the defense WILL be better than last year (I think this was a solid draft). I think Orton will win more games than he did last year. I don't think this front office is going to give him a Kolb deal and I don't think he's going to re-sign with Denver.

I can't tell you Tebow is a star or a bust. But i'd MUCH rather have that answer going into the 2012 draft than another year of limbo, which is what we are are looking at now.

I still don't think playing Orton makes sense unless you think

A) this team can contend for a playoff spot this year
B) this team is going to re-sign Orton and he's the guy for the next 5-7 years.

ozomulsion
08-25-2011, 01:33 PM
That defense argument is pretty lame. He faced the number one defense in the league and faced two top five passing defenses. One of three defenses were bad.

I pointed out that it doesn't even figure into my overall reasoning. The fact you jumped on that simply shows my Actual case must make pretty good sense.

jhns
08-25-2011, 01:34 PM
If agreeing with how the team is handling the Tebow situation at this point is insulting to you and these people you have chosen to speak for is insulting. Then I can see you are a sensitive person and expect people to tread lightly around you.

Cry more? About what? I wasn't crying about anything. Unlike the you and the constant bemoaning of anything that's a minute slight of Tebow in any thread.

If you claim I'm crying.... pot meet kettle. So hostile and bitter. Why?

I never said it was insulting. I said you are crying about me telling you the same thing. Also, you are only proving you are an idiot. I didn't anything close to what you just claimed. You can't even read...

TailgateNut
08-25-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm saying there is more to the equation than you are privy to

...and the players concur with the coaches on this. So you think you know more than all the coaches and many players?


He THINKS?Hilarious!

jhns
08-25-2011, 01:37 PM
I pointed out that it doesn't even figure into my overall reasoning. The fact you jumped on that simply shows my Actual case must make pretty good sense.

Nope, just pointing out fallacies' in your argument. Everything else you posted was opinion.

TailgateNut
08-25-2011, 01:41 PM
I'll still hedge my bets that EFX, know more than you, I or the other arm chair QB's out there. If think you know more, you should be applying for a new job. McD made a majority of the calls if not all when it came to evaluating the talent and signing players. He had the keys, people like Xanders didn't have much say.

Keep the new fan thing up, it's cute. Going to give the new guy a noogie too? Actually I've been around on the forum longer than you my friend. I came here as a refugee about a 8 years ago after the the RMN and Denver Post Bronco forums went to hell. I've laid low and don't have much time to live my life on the internet during deployments. Created a new username and joined in. BTW born and raised in Fort Collins, Colorado. Saw my first Broncos game as a kid at Mile High in '82 when Steve DeBerg was the QB and opened the season with a loss to San Diego. I survived the DeBerg years. I'll survive the Orton / Tebow years.

Your hostility is humorous.


I think that was the year jhizz was conceived!Hilarious! ....but he's read a lot of books about the Broncos and knows how to Google.Hilarious!

DrFate
08-25-2011, 01:44 PM
I said 3-10 simply to draw the comparison to 2010.

As I asked before - suppose Orton goes 8-8, throws for 3100 yards and 17 TDs. Is he getting 5 years/$63mil (same as Kolb) from Denver? I don't think so. Which means he walks. Which means that an 8-8 team, drafting in the middle of the first round, has Tebow, Quinn, and Webber on the roster (assuming Quinn doesn't walk as well).

I don't think that's a good plan.

OABB
08-25-2011, 01:50 PM
I'm well aware of the facts. Doesn't change the fact that he is 1-3, and can't run a conventional offense. If he can get his accuracy under control, and footwork and throwing motion down, he will be unstoppable.

if you are aware of facts, why did you say he is 1-3?

do you know "facts" are?

Blart
08-25-2011, 02:10 PM
They hate him because he's openly Christian and because he's made some money selling jerseys and commercials. The Lib sports media and some Boulder, CO Libs who are so called Broncos fans hate him for these 2 reasons alone.


That's strange. Whenever somebody remarks that
"People only like him because he's Christian"
all the Tebow fans cry,
"Lots of football players are Christian! We like Tebow for other reasons."


I'm just curious what those other reasons are.

He wants to play football really bad? He has a winning smile?

I see a player who shares the same negatives of an early Steve Young. Which is interesting, because if you put myself or anyone from the OM behind center, we'd share those same traits - weak arm, inaccurate, inability to read or understand the offense, and an inescapable desire to run away.

Bronco Vixen
08-25-2011, 02:15 PM
There are two nightmare scenarios regarding starting Orton over Tebow.

1- We draft Landry Jones (insert Barkley or Luck as well) because we haven't seen enough of Tebow to be confident he can be the QBOTF. Tebow goes on to be the stud he was in college with another team and leads them to 5 Titles.

2- We don't draft Landry Jones (insert Bakley or Luck as well) because we take it on faith that Tebow is the guy and he'll be able to become a great QB in this league and then all the criticism turns out to be true and he fails. Then we're looking to try to find a starter in 2013 after having passed on what looks like one of the best QB classes in years in 2012.

Neither is possible if we start him this year.

Worst possible scenario for starting Tebow; the Broncos go 0-16 and get their pick of Luck, Barkley, and Landry to lead the team into the future.

8-8 is the worst possible scenario, but scarily, the most likely with Orton at the helm.

There would be nothing worse than missing the playoffs, getting a middle tier draft pick, and still knowing nothing about Tebow.

These points times a billion. This is why this whole debate is so frustrating. To characterize those who are disappointed that Tebow is not getting a chance to start this year as crazy religious zealot followers or somehow not knowledgeable as fans by blindly supporting him "just because" is ridiculous and maddening. Starting Orton this year does NOTHING for this team in the long run, unless someone wants to argue that he's our QBOTF and I haven't heard even his most ardent supporters dare to suggest that.

TheReverend
08-25-2011, 02:16 PM
That's strange. Whenever somebody remarks that
"People only like him because he's Christian"
all the Tebow fans cry,
"Lots of football players are Christian! We like Tebow for other reasons."


I'm just curious what those other reasons are.

He wants to play football really bad? He has a winning smile?

I see a player who shares the same negatives of an early Steve Young. Which is interesting, because if you put myself or anyone from the OM behind center, we'd share those same traits - weak arm, inability to read or understand the offense, and an inescapable desire to run away.

1. His arm is far from weak.
2. I'd like to see where you criticize his understanding of the offense? McD walked away from the interview praising his football IQ so much that he did what it took to get a 1st rounder to select him.
3. Desire to run "away"? Explain pls.

The things I like - personally believing religions are fairy tales with value:

1. STRONG arm
2. Damn near perfect physical measurables.
3. Amazing ability as a ball carrier from: Breaking tackles, vision, change of direction and sheer will.
4. Ability to carry teammates.
5. Character/work ethic. I don't share his beliefs, but I love that it's a jersey I can buy for my daughter with no concerns of him getting arrested for beating a woman, blow possession, etc.

Dedhed
08-25-2011, 02:22 PM
I'm just curious what those other reasons are.

Let's start with 25 pts/game as a raw rookie and go from there.

PRBronco
08-25-2011, 02:23 PM
That's strange. Whenever somebody remarks that
"People only like him because he's Christian"
all the Tebow fans cry,
"Lots of football players are Christian! We like Tebow for other reasons."


I'm just curious what those other reasons are.

He wants to play football really bad? He has a winning smile?

I see a player who shares the same negatives of an early Steve Young. Which is interesting, because if you put myself or anyone from the OM behind center, we'd share those same traits - weak arm, inaccurate, inability to read or understand the offense, and an inescapable desire to run away.

I'm not sure what is it about Tim, but tbqh, before we drafted him, I did indeed dislike him because I felt like he was throwing his religion around too much. Then when I started seeing interviews with him, and watching highlights and reading stories, and I got a serious Tebowner. Also I always end up cheering for people who everyone seems to want to bring down.

bowtown
08-25-2011, 02:26 PM
I'm not sure what is it about Tim, but tbqh, before we drafted him, I did indeed dislike him because I felt like he was throwing his religion around too much. Then when I started seeing interviews with him, and watching highlights and reading stories, and I got a serious Tebowner. Also I always end up cheering for people who everyone seems to want to bring down.

You must be a huge Electric Light Orchestra fan.

baja
08-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Sorry. I meant to quote Dr Fate about our 3-10 record thing. That response was meant to be directed towards him.

In response to your post. I don't claim a preferred starter either way. I do think it helps most young QBs to sit, watch, and learn. I also think the case to make Tebow a starter is helped quit a bit by facing the 32nd ranked D at the time, in 2 of 3 starts. Even that doesn't figure into my overall reasoning.

I think Tebow is our future, and believe the coaches are doing what's best for him, and our team right now. I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting until he can make reads easier before we throw him in there. What we're doing will make it so he won't have to run it as much and that should reduce his risk of injury. When he does become our starter. Our future is not this year. We are not a playoff team IMO. What you just read is what makes sense to me. We Must/Need to start Tim Now does not, and will not make sense to me at this point & time.

This. Well said

PRBronco
08-25-2011, 02:27 PM
You must be a huge Electric Light Orchestra fan.

Naw, I don't even get this zinger :(

Hogan11
08-25-2011, 02:37 PM
Tebow's rabid cult makes it very difficult to even begin to try to like him. Seeing most of these types still wearing his Florida snot rag jerseys at Denver home games doesn't help matters either.

bowtown
08-25-2011, 02:39 PM
Naw, I don't even get this zinger :(

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qj8kMmUxkSE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheReverend
08-25-2011, 02:40 PM
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qj8kMmUxkSE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Whoaaaaaaaaaaa

I think you and the Band and their manager are the only ones who knew their name

Hogan11
08-25-2011, 02:57 PM
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qj8kMmUxkSE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What was that whole "Bruce" thing about anyways?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-25-2011, 02:59 PM
What was that whole "Bruce" thing about anyways?

I'm no expert or anything, but I believe Bruce was bringing him down. And he was asking Bruce to stop it. Or demanding that he not do that.

Hogan11
08-25-2011, 03:01 PM
I'm no expert or anything, but I believe Bruce was bringing him down. And he was asking Bruce to stop it. Or demanding that he not do that.

Ha! Touche`

Popps
08-25-2011, 03:03 PM
"Leave it to Woody to bring back some sanity"

Pick Six
08-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Personally, I like that the media is talking about the Denver Broncos, just BECAUSE of Tebow. He's marketable. With that being said, I don't think he's the right quarterback in 2011. The offensive line isn't going to hold up long enough for Tebow to decide what to do with the ball...

PRBronco
08-25-2011, 03:16 PM
Personally, I like that the media is talking about the Denver Broncos, just BECAUSE of Tebow. He's marketable. With that being said, I don't think he's the right quarterback in 2011. The offensive line isn't going to hold up long enough for Tebow to decide what to do with the ball...

Seriously they showed both of Tebow's throws and his run from the last preseason game on the sportscentre up here in the frozen north. 4th quarter, preseason, non highlight plays, but we get to see them even up here. That's crazy star power, the Broncos would be retarded to fritter that away when just last year they had fans wearing bags on their heads.

bowtown
08-25-2011, 03:26 PM
What was that whole "Bruce" thing about anyways?

Little bit of trivia: he's not actually saying "Bruce." He's saying "Grroos." So that should clear it right up for you.

Hogan11
08-25-2011, 03:54 PM
Little bit of trivia: he's not actually saying "Bruce." He's saying "Grroos." So that should clear it right up for you.

Ahh, thanks for that. Even though I loved The Move, I was never a big ELO or Jeff Lynne fan, so I didn't know.

Mile High Mojoe
08-25-2011, 04:36 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18752495

Leave it to Woody to bring back some sanity to the Tebow debate. Tebow's biggest critics are a bunch of losers who only wish they had half of his talent and determination when they played. Boomer and Hodge are morons.

Best stat in the article about Orton: "Orton has lost eight of nine, 14 of 17 and 17 of his past 22 starts." Nuff said.

I honestly believe the whole Tebow thing is personal. Not by the Broncos organization, not by Fox or Elway because I believe he's not going anywhere and eventually heíll start but by the media and some fans. They hate him because he's openly Christian and because he's made some money selling jerseys and commercials. The Lib sports media and some Boulder, CO Libs who are so called Broncos fans hate him for these 2 reasons alone.

The Broncos win a meaningless preseason game against the Bills one of the worst teams in all of football and suddenly Orton is a solid starter? COME ON!!! I canít wait to see these haters eat their words by mid-season when Tebow is starting and Orton is sitting on the bench sulking because the Broncos are 2-6.

After reading this thread 3 things still stand out to me no matter what people think of Tebow, whether he starts, sits on the bench or is traded.

First

This argument that the Coaches, Players and Elway support Orton because he gives them the best chance to win and because they ďknow betterĒ is just not a good point of reference every time. Why? The same group of fans who make this argument are the same ones who claimed McDaniels was the next coaching genius. The same ones who said to be patient with his system, the same ones who claimed the trade for Orton and draft picks were pure genius. So excuse me if I question the experts for what they are saying about Tebow. They may think itís the right thing now and maybe it is in the short term but certainly not the long term. StillÖ after seeing Orton in the best of times and the worst of times heís no better than Tebow despite his inexperience.

Second

The only reason and I mean the only reason Orton is still in Denver is because heís set to make $8.4 million and no team was moronic enough to trade for him. We can thank the genius McD for that move too. Iím positive had the money not been an issue Orton would have been down the road and it would have been a unanimous decision by Bowlen, Elway and Fox to do so.

Third

And the most important because of all of the ridiculous stat comparisons being made between Orton and Tebow this one hammer over the head stat cannot be explained away. I understand this is a team game and he didnít do it alone but he certainly didnít have the talent to help stop it either.


"Orton has lost eight of nine, 14 of 17 and 17 of his past 22 starts."

Hogan11
08-25-2011, 04:46 PM
He's not starting, get used to it.....whining about it accomplishes absolutely nothing

orangenblue
08-25-2011, 05:53 PM
watch Tebow throw a football and then watch Orton. What do your eyes tell you?

yerner
08-25-2011, 06:00 PM
watch Tebow throw a football and then watch Orton. What do your eyes tell you?

Tebow is pretty?

Dedhed
08-25-2011, 06:06 PM
watch Tebow throw a football and then watch Orton. What do your eyes tell you?

That Orton throws a better spiral.

Compare 20 points/game to 25 points/game. What does your brain tell you?

KipCorrington25
08-25-2011, 06:58 PM
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/ahaha_gif.gif

gobroncos313
08-25-2011, 07:44 PM
If Orton was traded and Tebow was made the starter going into camp. There would have been a good chance that the way he has been performing so far that Quinn could have usurped as the starter and he would be the back up at that point.

Let things play out, if you don't like it then pick another team to back.

Here are the facts as posted above:

2011 Preseason NFL QB Passer Ratings:
Quinn - 95.1
Orton - 110.0 (with the 1st team (Lloyd & Royal) in practice and games)
Tebow - 113.4 (practice and game time with 3rd teamers & scrubs)


Passing Accuracy Questions:
Quinn 60.0%
Orton 63.2 %
Tebow 77.8%


Yards Per Attempt:
Quinn 8.3 yds
Orton 9.1 yds
Tebow 11.2 yds


Long Pass Completion:
Quinn 26 yds
Orton 29 yds
Tebow 43 yds


Doesn't look like Quinn would to me. All Tebow does is produce on the field in game time. Doesn't look pretty and perfect doing it but the bottom line is he produces and that's what we need at the QB position.

gobroncos313
08-25-2011, 07:50 PM
watch Tebow throw a football and then watch Orton. What do your eyes tell you?

3rd down and 8 who do you want?

Orton throwing a pretty spiral out of bounds because he made all of his reads and nobody was open so he throws it away and we punt . Then we listen to the announcers talk about how smart he is by living to make another play.

Or Tebow, like most rookies, not making all his reads and scrambling around running for a first down or hitting a WR for a first down with a not so pretty pass. Then when we are huddled calling the play on the first down listening to the announcers talk about how careless he was on the previous play.

I know darn sure what I prefer to watch.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-25-2011, 09:14 PM
Oy.

baja
08-25-2011, 09:39 PM
3rd down and 8 who do you want?

Orton throwing a pretty spiral out of bounds because he made all of his reads and nobody was open so he throws it away and we punt . Then we listen to the announcers talk about how smart he is by living to make another play.

Or Tebow, like most rookies, not making all his reads and scrambling around running for a first down or hitting a WR for a first down with a not so pretty pass. Then when we are huddled calling the play on the first down listening to the announcers talk about how careless he was on the previous play.

I know darn sure what I prefer to watch.

Yes I believe Tebow will do these things just not early in this season. This requires a little patience, something many of you don't seen to have. Thank God EFX do.

MplsBronco
08-25-2011, 09:40 PM
Here are the facts as posted above:

2011 Preseason NFL QB Passer Ratings:
Quinn - 95.1
Orton - 110.0 (with the 1st team (Lloyd & Royal) in practice and games)
Tebow - 113.4 (practice and game time with 3rd teamers & scrubs)


Passing Accuracy Questions:
Quinn 60.0%
Orton 63.2 %
Tebow 77.8%


Yards Per Attempt:
Quinn 8.3 yds
Orton 9.1 yds
Tebow 11.2 yds


Long Pass Completion:
Quinn 26 yds
Orton 29 yds
Tebow 43 yds


Doesn't look like Quinn would to me. All Tebow does is produce on the field in game time. Doesn't look pretty and perfect doing it but the bottom line is he produces and that's what we need at the QB position.

Tebow's sample size is too small! Surely that explains why his results look so good.

enjolras
08-25-2011, 11:51 PM
Tebow's sample size is too small! Surely that explains why his results look so good.

Tebow is amazing when the other team is backed up into prevent defense. HUGE chunks of his numbers came late in the fourth quarter with the opposing team up by several scores.

I was at the San Diego game last year. I've watched it several times. He was god-awful until San Diego backed up.

OABB
08-26-2011, 12:02 AM
Tebow is amazing when the other team is backed up into prevent defense. HUGE chunks of his numbers came late in the fourth quarter with the opposing team up by several scores.

I was at the San Diego game last year. I've watched it several times. He was god-awful until San Diego backed up.

yeah he was terrible. he looked like a rookie out there.

hambone13
08-26-2011, 02:37 AM
That Orton throws a better spiral.

Compare 20 points/game to 25 points/game. What does your brain tell you?

Do you hear the other players bitching about Orton starting? Isn't that the most important part?

jhns
08-26-2011, 07:02 AM
Do you hear the other players b****ing about Orton starting? Isn't that the most important part?

No, and no...

jhns
08-26-2011, 07:04 AM
yeah he was terrible. he looked like a rookie out there.

A rookie playing yhe number one defense in the NFL. Is that really an argument though? Did we not watch Orton play that same defense?

ColoradoDarin
08-26-2011, 07:09 AM
Tebow is amazing when the other team is backed up into prevent defense. HUGE chunks of his numbers came late in the fourth quarter with the opposing team up by several scores.

I was at the San Diego game last year. I've watched it several times. He was god-awful until San Diego backed up.

You missed the Ravens game? How about the Rams game? Orton was MONEY when the game was out of reach and the other team was in prevent.

TheReverend
08-26-2011, 07:10 AM
Tebow is amazing when the other team is backed up into prevent defense. HUGE chunks of his numbers came late in the fourth quarter with the opposing team up by several scores.

I think you put the wrong name in this paragraph?

The ONLY time Tebow faced an opponent in the 4th quarter with a 2 score deficit was @ Oak when they scored a TD with 4 mins to go.

I think you should try watching harder... or go for an unobstructed view since you were there

The Moops
08-26-2011, 08:32 AM
Wow, I need to put on an overcoat ... I finally agree with Paige.

PRBronco
08-26-2011, 09:13 AM
Tebow is amazing when the other team is backed up into prevent defense. HUGE chunks of his numbers came late in the fourth quarter with the opposing team up by several scores.

I was at the San Diego game last year. I've watched it several times. He was god-awful until San Diego backed up.

Whereas Orton threw so much to salt away all the leads he lead us too?

DrFate
08-26-2011, 09:16 AM
Orton is amazing when the other team is backed up into prevent defense. HUGE chunks of his numbers came late in the fourth quarter with the opposing team up by several scores.


Fixed for you

jhns
08-26-2011, 09:16 AM
I just hope Orton has learned to play under pressure(physical and mental). He could be pretty good if he does. If not, he is going to make this front office look like a joke. After what this franchise just went through,I doubt the fans cut them much slack.

OABB
08-26-2011, 09:32 AM
Fixed for you

yeah. found it ironic myself.

jhns
08-26-2011, 09:34 AM
So, the stats show Tebow has outplayed Orton. The offenses production shows that Tebow has outplayed Orton. The only orton defense is that the sample size is too small and/or defenses didn't have time to adjust. I have been looking around and I am not finding any kind of trend where guys get worse after their first few starts. With this rationale being thrown around so much, one would think it was more common than not. What gives?

OABB
08-26-2011, 09:36 AM
So, the stats show Tebow has outplayed Orton. The offenses production shows that Tebow has outplayed Orton. The only orton defense is that the sample size is too small and/or defenses didn't have time to adjust. I have been looking around and I am not finding any kind of trend where guys get worse after their first few starts. With this rationale being thrown around so much, one would think it was more common than not. What gives?

hateboners. its just that simple.

BroncoInferno
08-26-2011, 10:05 AM
I have been looking around and I am not finding any kind of trend where guys get worse after their first few starts. With this rationale being thrown around so much, one would think it was more common than not. What gives?

There are plenty of QBs who looked promising in there first few starts and then either regressed or didnt't improve much. Eric Zeier. Scott Mitchell. Rick Meier. Rob Johnson. Those guys just off the top of my head. Not that I believe that will be Tebow's fate, but it's not unheard of.

jhns
08-26-2011, 10:24 AM
There are plenty of QBs who looked promising in there first few starts and then either regressed or didnt't improve much. Glenn Foley. Eric Zeier. Scott Mitchell. Rick Meier. Rob Johnson. Those guys just off the top of my head. Not that I believe that will be Tebow's fate, but it's not unheard of.

Foleys first three starts: 52, 56, 64 QB ratings.

Zeier: 75, 49, 25, 56 QB ratings

Both are all they played in the first year with starts.

Mitchell and Johnson are good examples. The other two were never good. Mitchell had a Cutler happen though, which are pretty much the only examples I can find. A player falling off after being moved to a **** offensive team. Tebow is going from McCoy and Studesville to McCoy and Fox, while also playing with the same players, so that situation isn't the same.

Also, the two top QBs were not running around and scoring so QB rating pretty much shows what they did. Their offenses weren't good and they didn't put up good stats.

Honestly, I have looked at a ton of QBs and it is very rare that one gets worse after his first few starts, first eight starts, or even after the first year. I'm sure there are a few examples, but that doesn't mean it can be used as an argument. If it happens to one out of every two hundred QBs, why would anyone assume it is a trend that is bound to happen to Tebow?

AlphaSeirra
09-08-2011, 11:15 AM
:approve: I'm a realist, not an idealist.

Tebow has played well in 3 regular season games and a little over one third of 1 preseason game. Yes he has played better than Orton, but hedging everything on such a small sample size of data and claiming he'll be great or even a bust, or he will be better than Orton or any thing else of the like is asinine. He'll need to play quite a bit to draw any firm conclusions be it good or bad. Just like the stats AlphaSeirra used they are such a small sample size they really mean or prove nothing at this point. There have been many a player in the NFL or any other sport that have a few good games (yes even early on) and then never show much after that.

Let things play out and then come back with some meaningful stats to back your opinions.

Tebow has a carefully recorded history that goes all the way back to Pee-Wee football and it continues right up to today.
If that CONSISTENT sample is not enough for you, then I'm just going to have to DOUBT your REALIST claims.... ;)

A favorite quote; "Just the FACTS ma'am" -- Sgt Joe Friday - Dragnet :approve:

So simple that even a little (not brain dead) child could understand it..... (2011 Preseason Stats)

2nd Year Tebow (with scrubs)

Passing - 20 of 31, 64.5%, 310 yds, 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, 1 TD, 0 Ints, Long 43 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 108.3 <-----------<<<< Best of the Broncos

Rushing - 8 for 55 yds, 6.9 ypc, Long 19 yds. --- 6.9 ypc Best of the Broncos

>>>> Total (scrubs) Offense - On 39 plays, 365 yds, 9.4 yds/play with 1 TD and ZERO turnovers.
* Most Productive Bronco QB per play, passing or running -- PLUS ZERO TURNOVERS!
======================

7th Year Orton (with 1st team)

Passing - 28 of 42, 66.7%, 408 yds, 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 1 Ints, Long 42 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 104.1

Rushing - 1 for 4 yds

Total Offense - On 43 plays, 412 yds, 9.5 yds/play with 2 TD's and 1 turnover.
======================

5th Year Quinn

Passing - 22 of 42, >>> 52.4% <<<, 276 yds, 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 2 Ints, Long 26 yds.
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 69.1

Rushing - NADA

Total Offense - On 42 plays, 276 yds, 6.6 yds/play, 2 TD's and 2 turnovers.
=======================

Bronco True-isms: (Staff - Media Morons - Some idiot Fans)

1. Tim 64.5% is an inaccurate passer, >>> Quinn 52.4%.Hilarious!

2. Tim is a very weak armed passer, everyone has always known that haven't they? ^5

Tebow 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, Long 43 yds.

Orton 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, Long 42 yds.

Quinn 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, Long 26 yds.
=========================

The final Tab for the Losers & Liars is just, 'what it is' --- it has nothing to do with 'who' reports on it..... :wave:

See the actual 'On The Field' facts/stats, or continue with your well biased (idiot) delusions..... :yayaya:

That said, I don't really care who starts or who is called the #2.
I also don't care if Tebow is played, benched, or traded.
Because NONE of that will really affect Tim's Long Term NFL success imoho.
My own True-ism,,,, Use-um or Lose-um! :sunshine:

2KBack
09-08-2011, 11:27 AM
I'm so thrilled to see another florida "Bronco" fan adding brand new discussions

swaiy
09-08-2011, 11:28 AM
:approve:

Tebow has a carefully recorded history that goes all the way back to Pee-Wee football and it continues right up to today.
If that CONSISTENT sample is not enough for you, then I'm just going to have to DOUBT your REALIST claims.... ;)

A favorite quote; "Just the FACTS ma'am" -- Sgt Joe Friday - Dragnet :approve:

So simple that even a little (not brain dead) child could understand it..... (2011 Preseason Stats)

2nd Year Tebow (with scrubs)

Passing - 20 of 31, 64.5%, 310 yds, 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, 1 TD, 0 Ints, Long 43 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 108.3 <-----------<<<< Best of the Broncos

Rushing - 8 for 55 yds, 6.9 ypc, Long 19 yds. --- 6.9 ypc Best of the Broncos

>>>> Total (scrubs) Offense - On 39 plays, 365 yds, 9.4 yds/play with 1 TD and ZERO turnovers.
* Most Productive Bronco QB per play, passing or running -- PLUS ZERO TURNOVERS!
======================

7th Year Orton (with 1st team)

Passing - 28 of 42, 66.7%, 408 yds, 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 1 Ints, Long 42 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 104.1

Rushing - 1 for 4 yds

Total Offense - On 43 plays, 412 yds, 9.5 yds/play with 2 TD's and 1 turnover.
======================

5th Year Quinn

Passing - 22 of 42, >>> 52.4% <<<, 276 yds, 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 2 Ints, Long 26 yds.
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 69.1

Rushing - NADA

Total Offense - On 42 plays, 276 yds, 6.6 yds/play, 2 TD's and 2 turnovers.
=======================

Bronco True-isms: (Staff - Media Morons - Some idiot Fans)

1. Tim 64.5% is an inaccurate passer, >>> Quinn 52.4%.Hilarious!

2. Tim is a very weak armed passer, everyone has always known that haven't they? ^5

Tebow 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, Long 43 yds.

Orton 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, Long 42 yds.

Quinn 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, Long 26 yds.
=========================

The final Tab for the Losers & Liars is just, 'what it is' --- it has nothing to do with 'who' reports on it..... :wave:

See the actual 'On The Field' facts/stats, or continue with your well biased (idiot) delusions..... :yayaya:

That said, I don't really care who starts or who is called the #2.
I also don't care if Tebow is played, benched, or traded.
Because NONE of that will really affect Tim's Long Term NFL success imoho.
My own True-ism,,,, Use-um or Lose-um! :sunshine:


Pre-season doesn't matter unless Tebow's stats are garbage. ;)

strafen
09-08-2011, 11:29 AM
:approve:

Tebow has a carefully recorded history that goes all the way back to Pee-Wee football and it continues right up to today.
If that CONSISTENT sample is not enough for you, then I'm just going to have to DOUBT your REALIST claims.... ;)

A favorite quote; "Just the FACTS ma'am" -- Sgt Joe Friday - Dragnet :approve:

So simple that even a little (not brain dead) child could understand it..... (2011 Preseason Stats)

2nd Year Tebow (with scrubs)

Passing - 20 of 31, 64.5%, 310 yds, 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, 1 TD, 0 Ints, Long 43 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 108.3 <-----------<<<< Best of the Broncos

Rushing - 8 for 55 yds, 6.9 ypc, Long 19 yds. --- 6.9 ypc Best of the Broncos

>>>> Total (scrubs) Offense - On 39 plays, 365 yds, 9.4 yds/play with 1 TD and ZERO turnovers.
* Most Productive Bronco QB per play, passing or running -- PLUS ZERO TURNOVERS!
======================

7th Year Orton (with 1st team)

Passing - 28 of 42, 66.7%, 408 yds, 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 1 Ints, Long 42 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 104.1

Rushing - 1 for 4 yds

Total Offense - On 43 plays, 412 yds, 9.5 yds/play with 2 TD's and 1 turnover.
======================

5th Year Quinn

Passing - 22 of 42, >>> 52.4% <<<, 276 yds, 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 2 Ints, Long 26 yds.
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 69.1

Rushing - NADA

Total Offense - On 42 plays, 276 yds, 6.6 yds/play, 2 TD's and 2 turnovers.
=======================

Bronco True-isms: (Staff - Media Morons - Some idiot Fans)

1. Tim 64.5% is an inaccurate passer, >>> Quinn 52.4%.Hilarious!

2. Tim is a very weak armed passer, everyone has always known that haven't they? ^5

Tebow 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, Long 43 yds.

Orton 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, Long 42 yds.

Quinn 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, Long 26 yds.
=========================

The final Tab for the Losers & Liars is just, 'what it is' --- it has nothing to do with 'who' reports on it..... :wave:

See the actual 'On The Field' facts/stats, or continue with your well biased (idiot) delusions..... :yayaya:

That said, I don't really care who starts or who is called the #2.
I also don't care if Tebow is played, benched, or traded.
Because NONE of that will really affect Tim's Long Term NFL success imoho.
My own True-ism,,,, Use-um or Lose-um! :sunshine:And with that folks, this thread is locked.
Any questions? :strong:

OABB
09-08-2011, 11:38 AM
And with that folks, this thread is locked.
Any questions? :strong:

they will just claim preseason doesnt matter and than argue that practice and training camp do...


the best part is they think we are irrational...hateboners, not for everyone.

FrankieTwoThumbs
09-08-2011, 12:18 PM
:approve:

Tebow has a carefully recorded history that goes all the way back to Pee-Wee football and it continues right up to today.
If that CONSISTENT sample is not enough for you, then I'm just going to have to DOUBT your REALIST claims.... ;)

A favorite quote; "Just the FACTS ma'am" -- Sgt Joe Friday - Dragnet :approve:

So simple that even a little (not brain dead) child could understand it..... (2011 Preseason Stats)

2nd Year Tebow (with scrubs)

Passing - 20 of 31, 64.5%, 310 yds, 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, 1 TD, 0 Ints, Long 43 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 108.3 <-----------<<<< Best of the Broncos

Rushing - 8 for 55 yds, 6.9 ypc, Long 19 yds. --- 6.9 ypc Best of the Broncos

>>>> Total (scrubs) Offense - On 39 plays, 365 yds, 9.4 yds/play with 1 TD and ZERO turnovers.
* Most Productive Bronco QB per play, passing or running -- PLUS ZERO TURNOVERS!
======================

7th Year Orton (with 1st team)

Passing - 28 of 42, 66.7%, 408 yds, 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 1 Ints, Long 42 yds,
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 104.1

Rushing - 1 for 4 yds

Total Offense - On 43 plays, 412 yds, 9.5 yds/play with 2 TD's and 1 turnover.
======================

5th Year Quinn

Passing - 22 of 42, >>> 52.4% <<<, 276 yds, 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 2 Ints, Long 26 yds.
QB Pass Efficiency Rating = 69.1

Rushing - NADA

Total Offense - On 42 plays, 276 yds, 6.6 yds/play, 2 TD's and 2 turnovers.
=======================

Bronco True-isms: (Staff - Media Morons - Some idiot Fans)

1. Tim 64.5% is an inaccurate passer, >>> Quinn 52.4%.Hilarious!

2. Tim is a very weak armed passer, everyone has always known that haven't they? ^5

Tebow 10.0 ypa, 15.5 yds/comp, Long 43 yds.

Orton 9.7 ypa, 14.4 yds/comp, Long 42 yds.

Quinn 6.6 ypa, 12.3 yds/comp, Long 26 yds.
=========================

The final Tab for the Losers & Liars is just, 'what it is' --- it has nothing to do with 'who' reports on it..... :wave:

See the actual 'On The Field' facts/stats, or continue with your well biased (idiot) delusions..... :yayaya:

That said, I don't really care who starts or who is called the #2.
I also don't care if Tebow is played, benched, or traded.
Because NONE of that will really affect Tim's Long Term NFL success imoho.
My own True-ism,,,, Use-um or Lose-um! :sunshine:

Actually, Weber beats Tebow on every measure. There is a conspiracy to keep someone down, it just turns out to not be Tebow! Sign and start Weber!

Edit: Except for rushing. We can have Tebow as Weber's FB for a best of both worlds kind of deal.

Edit #2: Actually, Weber does beat Tebow in average rush also.

DrFate
09-08-2011, 12:19 PM
The Christian thing has nothing to do with it. Im openly Christian and I do not want Tebow on the team. That's a fallacious argument made by idiots.

Actually, your argument is a fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_(fallacy)

His faith does not influence your opinion. It does not therefore follow, sadly, that others are not influenced.

Dagmar
09-08-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm so thrilled to see another florida "Bronco" fan adding brand new discussions

I think he's posted it in about 7 threads Ha! Ha!

Que
09-08-2011, 12:31 PM
Resident Atheist here. Hello Jesus lovers. :wave:

I think this whole Tebow isn't starting because he's a Christian is about the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard. That's like saying so and so isn't the CEO because he's a white middle age guy.

The resistance to Tebow is because he doesn't look like a prototypical NFL QB and most fans are Luddites and can't think outside the box. That and many fans hated him in college because of his awesome-ness.

So, that being said - as you can see from my avatar.... start him and start him now. Total supporter and even think his Christian schtick is kinda refreshing. The dude is a good guy and does good things and doesn't use his faith as a shield. Points in my book.

goldengopher1976
09-08-2011, 01:15 PM
Resident Atheist here. Hello Jesus lovers. :wave:

I think this whole Tebow isn't starting because he's a Christian is about the biggest piece of BS I have ever heard. That's like saying so and so isn't the CEO because he's a white middle age guy.

The resistance to Tebow is because he doesn't look like a prototypical NFL QB and most fans are Luddites and can't think outside the box. That and many fans hated him in college because of his awesome-ness.

So, that being said - as you can see from my avatar.... start him and start him now. Total supporter and even think his Christian schtick is kinda refreshing. The dude is a good guy and does good things and doesn't use his faith as a shield. Points in my book.

Thank you, from a resident grammarian, for using the word "Luddite".

bendog
09-08-2011, 01:37 PM
so, what's up with tebow today?

mr007
09-08-2011, 02:04 PM
"Orton has lost eight of nine, 14 of 17 and 17 of his past 22 starts."

This makes me laugh. Back when I used to argue a lot more on this board with Popps and his ilk one of their big statements on Cutler vs Orton was - "I don't care how you look at it - all Orton does is WIN WIN WIN no matter what!"

Try to bring the logic of different defenses in etc and it would just never work out. Funny how things change.

Dedhed
09-08-2011, 02:08 PM
Pre-season doesn't matter unless Tebow's stats are garbage. ;)So how do you answer to the fact that Tebow was better in the regular season as well?

bendog
09-08-2011, 02:22 PM
he was, and I can PROVE it!!!!!

smoking.

jhns
09-08-2011, 02:33 PM
This makes me laugh. Back when I used to argue a lot more on this board with Popps and his ilk one of their big statements on Cutler vs Orton was - "I don't care how you look at it - all Orton does is WIN WIN WIN no matter what!"

Try to bring the logic of different defenses in etc and it would just never work out. Funny how things change.

This is how every Orton fan argues. Every single argument that they make now is the complete opposite of what they said in the Cutler vs Orton debates. Well, other than the fact that they still claim the less productive player is the better one. I almost feel bad for these guys. It is sad that not everyone is born with a fully functioning brain.

swaiy
09-08-2011, 02:38 PM
So how do you answer to the fact that Tebow was better in the regular season as well?

I thought my smiley face made my sarcasm obvious. I meant, that if he had ****ty stats this preseason, we would see them posted up and down this board as proof to how terrible he is.

Since they weren't bad, "it's just preseason and they don't matter."

jhns
09-08-2011, 02:41 PM
I thought my smiley face made my sarcasm obvious. I meant, that if he had ****ty stats this preseason, we would see them posted up and down this bored as proof to how terrible he is.

Since they weren't bad, "it's just preseason and they don't matter."

Actually, Ortonites are still claiming he is terrible and can't comokete a forward pass. It is like none of the Orton fans actually watch the games. Considering all of them are McFans, we shouldn't expect anything more from them.

vancejohnson82
09-08-2011, 02:44 PM
who are these Orton fans?

Dedhed
09-08-2011, 02:44 PM
I thought my smiley face made my sarcasm obvious. I meant, that if he had ****ty stats this preseason, we would see them posted up and down this board as proof to how terrible he is.

Since they weren't bad, "it's just preseason and they don't matter."

That was my bad, I realized what you said after I reread my response.

The Ortonites don't have much to stand on in the stats or effectiveness department. All they really have is some qualitative notion that because he doesn't look like the average QB, so he must not be.

Those with eyes can see that he could be far greater than average. Those without them only see that he operates differently and then equate that to inability.

swaiy
09-08-2011, 02:48 PM
Actually, Ortonites are still claiming he is terrible and can't comokete a forward pass. It is like none of the Orton fans actually watch the games. Considering all of them are McFans, we shouldn't expect anything more from them.

I try not to get too involved with the back and forth but I've been reading this forum for about 2 years and just now decided to make an account. I see what's going on and find it funny.

I don't hope for us to lose but if Orton craps the bed this season after all the optimism about "An OL with more experience, a better run game, and an improved defense," I'm going to laugh myself into a coma. All of these things were used last year as a means to somehow deflect responsibility of the losses away from Orton. This time it's do or die.

If he does well, I get to be proud of the team. If he sucks, I will at least have peace knowing I can come to the boards and see faces being rubbed in the very crap they spewed leading up to the season.

jhns
09-08-2011, 02:52 PM
who are these Orton fans?

You.