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bronco militia
08-23-2011, 08:38 AM
Tim Tebow didn't play much Saturday night, but his FRS energy drink ad certainly did.

Nothing against the ad, which played relentlessly on the local telecast of the Broncos' preseason victory over Buffalo. As energy drink ads go, it's a pretty good one. But on a night when Tebow played third string, even the commercial breaks seemed to be asking why.

NFL quarterback controversies usually produce passion, but Tebow is a surprisingly polarizing figure for a guy who's done very little to make anyone dislike him. Check out two reactions to my column Sunday saying Brady Quinn​ has earned the job backing up Kyle Orton and ask yourself if these people live on the same planet.

First, Norm Woodlief of The Villages, Fla.:

"No way Orton and Quinn are better. I am shocked at the dishonesty of it. Tebow is not being given a fair chance . . . To package Tebow as an appearance of failure and say all are in a fair competition . . . Wow. Disgusting. Trade him. Denver deserves the mediocrity it will get and it seems to enjoy . . . Tebow is hated for his beliefs and treated accordingly. This is not about football or who is best or he would be playing . . . Fox and Elway should be ashamed. They must think the fans are idiots."

Next, Rob Becker of Lafayette:

"Dave, why do you think Buffalo would be better off trading for Tebow? As bad as Buffalo is, Tebow is an absolute joke of a QB . . . I give Elway and Fox credit for not giving in to the fans to play Tebow . . . Tebow is a sideshow. You can't tell me Tebow is better than Charlie Ward, Eric Crouch, Matt Leinart, Gino Torretta. All of them along with Tebow are so-called 'winners.' But they weren't NFL-quality QBs."

Woodlief's claim that "Tebow is hated for his beliefs" is mentioned often by correspondents from the southeastern U.S., but within the Broncos organization I see no evidence of it. Other Broncos, including Quinn and veteran safety Brian Dawkins, espouse their Christianity publicly. To the extent the organization has aligned itself with political causes, they have been conservative ones similar to Tebow's. Boulder is a hotbed of liberalism; Dove Valley is not.

But the divide over Tebow does have something to do with faith. In the FRS ad, he rattles off a list of things people said he couldn't do, the last of which is, "They said I couldn't play in the league."

His critics would say he has yet to establish that he can. Among his admirers, it is an article of faith that he will succeed if given the chance, so depriving him of that chance becomes something akin to persecution.

The problem is pro football coaches don't operate on faith, at least not until a player has earned it. Broncos coaches watching the team's public training camp practices have seen what everybody else in attendance has seen: Orton and Quinn have been better.

So, what are they supposed to do? Ignore performance in practice and anoint Tebow because he has overcome skepticism before? If performance in practice doesn't matter at quarterback, why should it matter at any other position?

Yet this is what many Tebow backers advocate. He is not a practice player, they say. This may be the only issue on which Tebow and Allen Iverson have common cause.

Still, I agree with them that Tebow brings an intangible to game situations, a competitive fire, that doesn't show up in practice. And I admit I'm not sold on Orton or Quinn as clutch players because I haven't seen it. The suspicion remains that for all the sound and fury of the controversy, the Broncos have three serviceable quarterbacks and no elite ones.....

click the link for the rest of the article

Read more: Dave Krieger: Tim Tebow's third-string role with Broncos a polarizing issue - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_18736707#ixzz1VrYhIj2C
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

TailgateNut
08-23-2011, 08:43 AM
Tim Tebow didn't play much Saturday night, but his FRS energy drink ad certainly did.

Nothing against the ad, which played relentlessly on the local telecast of the Broncos' preseason victory over Buffalo. As energy drink ads go, it's a pretty good one. But on a night when Tebow played third string, even the commercial breaks seemed to be asking why.

NFL quarterback controversies usually produce passion, but Tebow is a surprisingly polarizing figure for a guy who's done very little to make anyone dislike him. Check out two reactions to my column Sunday saying Brady Quinn​ has earned the job backing up Kyle Orton and ask yourself if these people live on the same planet.

First, Norm Woodlief of The Villages, Fla.:

"No way Orton and Quinn are better. I am shocked at the dishonesty of it. Tebow is not being given a fair chance . . . To package Tebow as an appearance of failure and say all are in a fair competition . . . Wow. Disgusting. Trade him. Denver deserves the mediocrity it will get and it seems to enjoy . . . Tebow is hated for his beliefs and treated accordingly. This is not about football or who is best or he would be playing . . . Fox and Elway should be ashamed. They must think the fans are idiots."

Next, Rob Becker of Lafayette:

"Dave, why do you think Buffalo would be better off trading for Tebow? As bad as Buffalo is, Tebow is an absolute joke of a QB . . . I give Elway and Fox credit for not giving in to the fans to play Tebow . . . Tebow is a sideshow. You can't tell me Tebow is better than Charlie Ward, Eric Crouch, Matt Leinart, Gino Torretta. All of them along with Tebow are so-called 'winners.' But they weren't NFL-quality QBs."

Woodlief's claim that "Tebow is hated for his beliefs" is mentioned often by correspondents from the southeastern U.S., but within the Broncos organization I see no evidence of it. Other Broncos, including Quinn and veteran safety Brian Dawkins, espouse their Christianity publicly. To the extent the organization has aligned itself with political causes, they have been conservative ones similar to Tebow's. Boulder is a hotbed of liberalism; Dove Valley is not.

But the divide over Tebow does have something to do with faith. In the FRS ad, he rattles off a list of things people said he couldn't do, the last of which is, "They said I couldn't play in the league."

His critics would say he has yet to establish that he can. Among his admirers, it is an article of faith that he will succeed if given the chance, so depriving him of that chance becomes something akin to persecution.

The problem is pro football coaches don't operate on faith, at least not until a player has earned it. Broncos coaches watching the team's public training camp practices have seen what everybody else in attendance has seen: Orton and Quinn have been better.

So, what are they supposed to do? Ignore performance in practice and anoint Tebow because he has overcome skepticism before? If performance in practice doesn't matter at quarterback, why should it matter at any other position?

Yet this is what many Tebow backers advocate. He is not a practice player, they say. This may be the only issue on which Tebow and Allen Iverson have common cause.

Still, I agree with them that Tebow brings an intangible to game situations, a competitive fire, that doesn't show up in practice. And I admit I'm not sold on Orton or Quinn as clutch players because I haven't seen it. The suspicion remains that for all the sound and fury of the controversy, the Broncos have three serviceable quarterbacks and no elite ones.....

click the link for the rest of the article

Read more: Dave Krieger: Tim Tebow's third-string role with Broncos a polarizing issue - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_18736707#ixzz1VrYhIj2C
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


Do I hear an Echo?

Dagmar
08-23-2011, 08:46 AM
You may want to edit that, Denver Post does no like when you post the whole thing, can get The site in trouble.

bronco militia
08-23-2011, 08:52 AM
You may want to edit that, Denver Post does no like when you post the whole thing, can get The site in trouble.

read my entire post

maher_tyler
08-23-2011, 08:55 AM
If sitting Tebow means we'll be primed for a playoff run or SB victory in the future, by all means..sit him. I have a pretty good feeling that Tim will either see some action in certain situations, goaline etc, or eventually take over as starter.

Kaylore
08-23-2011, 09:03 AM
This sums it up pretty well. He's so polarizing and it's so bizzare. And both camps have taken an absolutionist approach. TheRev has already advocated firing John Fox for moving Quinn ahead of Tebow after the second freaking preseason game. That's right: Fire John Fox!

Then you have Tailgate Nut who tries to put on the pretense of wanting the "best guy" but really just hates Tebow on a personal level and doesn't want him to succeed.

There's no middle ground. And it seems every day that goes by, both sides get more and more irrational and ridiculous. The other thing they agree on is that there are only two options: Cut or Trade Tebow now or start him all year.

Both are incredibly stupid and unnecessary.

Mediator12
08-23-2011, 09:26 AM
There is a middle ground. Seriously. It is just hard for people around here to take. Fans are much different than coaches. Coaching helps you see what bias does with kids and their parents. It is no different here. Everyone "just needs the opportunity" to play and magically they will not fail!

For all the investment people make in their opinions, they have a hard time getting past their first impression bias filter. "My kid is better than that kid" is not that different than "My opinion of said player is better than yours". It is emotionally based and has very little objective value. I just wish people could step back better and be wrong once in awhile. We all make mistakes every day. Just own them and move on. People will respect you more for that, than ever for "being Right"!

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 09:32 AM
This sums it up pretty well. He's so polarizing and it's so bizzare. And both camps have taken an absolutionist approach. TheRev has already advocated firing John Fox for moving Quinn ahead of Tebow after the second freaking preseason game. That's right: Fire John Fox!

Then you have Tailgate Nut who tries to put on the pretense of wanting the "best guy" but really just hates Tebow on a personal level and doesn't want him to succeed.

There's no middle ground. And it seems every day that goes by, both sides get more and more irrational and ridiculous. The other thing they agree on is that there are only two options: Cut or Trade Tebow now or start him all year.

Both are incredibly stupid and unnecessary.

Um no I didn't... But thanks?

I said Fox can kiss his job goodbye and that this FO is the same ones that sold McD down the river for their own sake and won't hesitate to scapegoat Fox for this move.

McDman
08-23-2011, 09:35 AM
I like the kid and hope he does well but I'm to the point where I wouldn't mind if he was tradedc or released. He is such a distraction right now. I'm sick of seeing/hearing about hinm all the time.

Plus, anything that gets MacGruder to leave this sitr is fine by me.

Chris
08-23-2011, 09:35 AM
I think the bench time will be good for Tebow in the long run. He needs another year of camp.

McDman
08-23-2011, 09:36 AM
Um no I didn't... But thanks?

I said Fox can kiss his job goodbye and that this FO is the same ones that sold McD down the river for their own sake and won't hesitate to scapegoat Fox for this move.

I don't think this front office supports Tebow that much, he will be gone before Fox.

Kaylore
08-23-2011, 09:38 AM
Um no I didn't... But thanks?

I said Fox can kiss his job goodbye and that this FO is the same ones that sold McD down the river for their own sake and won't hesitate to scapegoat Fox for this move.

I took your comment of "one foot out the door" for "the beginning of the end" or mistake warranting termination. Even with your clarified explanation, you're still suggesting this decision, putting Quinn ahead of him for one 1 preaseason game, is going to result in termination. That's idiotic.

Kaylore
08-23-2011, 09:39 AM
I think the bench time will be good for Tebow in the long run. He needs another year of camp.

NO! NO! He either starts now every game or we trade or cut him! DON'T JOO SEE!?!?!?!?!

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 09:40 AM
I don't think this front office supports Tebow that much, he will be gone before Fox.

Depends on the W:L

If we win, everything's great.

If we lose (and with this schedule and Orton this is the inevitability, imo), they'll sell Fox down the river faster than you can say "Spygate 2"

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 09:42 AM
I took your comment of "one foot out the door" for "the beginning of the end" or mistake warranting termination. Even with your clarified explanation, you're still suggesting this decision, putting Quinn ahead of him for one 1 preaseason game, is going to result in termination. That's idiotic.

Its a foreshadowing for sure and they're being very dishonest to the fanbase for whatever reason.

Regardless what you're inferring into my statement is the same as me claiming you want Orton or Fox to get a big extension after their preseason performances.

Point blank: you haven't said that so to read into your statement and grossly exaggerrate is the idiotic part.

2KBack
08-23-2011, 09:45 AM
Tebow creates a storm of emotions aparently. I really like the guy, I just don't think he is ready. I honestly don't think the religious aspect plays into it hardly at all.

It is amazing to me to the the feverish faith a lot of people have put in him. Whether they are right or wrong about his abilities, it borders on obsession. I would really like to know just how many of these Bronco fans would move on if Tebow was released or traded. The first guy quoted in that article seemed like he would. I know of at least one nutjob here that would. It's like becky4j and Cutlerfan bred.

I'm still walking the middle line. I like Orton and look forward to seeing what he can do with better support. I also like Tebow and really hope he develops to the point that he can execute the offense as the coaches would like.

Kaylore
08-23-2011, 09:45 AM
Its a foreshadowing for sure and they're being very dishonest to the fanbase for whatever reason.

Regardless what you're inferring into my statement is the same as me claiming you want Orton or Fox to get a big extension after their preseason performances.

Point blank: you haven't said that so to read into your statement and grossly exaggerrate is the idiotic part.

How are they being dishonest to the fanbase? When did they promise Tebow would start or even stay the NO 2 backup forever? All they promised was they would continue to work with Tebow, which they are doing. They didn't say they would do so at the expense of other players, though. And if other players earn more playing time they are obliged to reward them accordingly.

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 09:51 AM
How are they being dishonest to the fanbase? When did they promise Tebow would start or even stay the NO 2 backup forever? All they promised was they would continue to work with Tebow, which they are doing. They didn't say they would do so at the expense of other players, though. And if other players earn more playing time they are obliged to reward them accordingly.

Referring to his "demotion" as a rotation with Quinn for one. If that were the case Tim wouldve seen more PT the first game and especially more than a few handoffs and in comes Weber.

Then the QB "competition" with is laughably not happening.

That being said, if you'd like to post for me, you're more than welcome to use my login and do it right. Until then, don't need the "help"

55CrushEm
08-23-2011, 09:51 AM
How are they being dishonest to the fanbase?

Not sure......but I'll bet if Tebow were an atheist, then TGN would LOVE him!

:sunshine:

Durango
08-23-2011, 09:52 AM
I like Tim Tebow, and I believe there is some merit to the claim that he is a game-day QB, but the organization went with the body of evidence that was before them, and that evidence is that Orton and Quinn have been better. Much better. Fox made the right decision.

Tebow will get his chances during the course of the season, and I'll bet he takes full advantage, again sparking the debate we've seen around here since the end of the 2010 season, but I honestly believe the lock-out is as much a culprit in stunting Tebows progress.

He remains an incredibly intriguing, but equally raw, talent, desperately needing the reps he was denied by the lock-out. I'll be looking forward to his progress all season, and covering my ears at the shrieks sure to come when he's deactivated for some games.

crush17
08-23-2011, 09:56 AM
Tebow is not ready. Plain and simple. Orton is a veteran qb in the prime of his career, and also in his 3rd season of this offense. Of COURSE you start him. Get over it!

Jay3
08-23-2011, 09:58 AM
It's one of the reasons I became so fascinated with Tebow, way back.

I'm telling you, he was polarizing from the very beginning, when "faith" had nothing to do with it and nobody even knew that about him. People said he would NOT be able to throw it.

He made people furious from the beginning, and joyous.

One of the reasons, I think, is that he's always been so productive while looking ugly.

I can remember a heated, voices raised, debate with a Georgia fan when Tebow first started to tear it up his sophomore year in college. She was sputtering, saying he's not even good, much less great.

I pointed out that he was scoring touchdowns at a faster rate than Darren McFadden that year, and she said "That's . . . that's . . . that's just because his coach lets him!!"

I said "Don't you think the whole Arkansas offense is built around Darren McFadden?"

They've said for years he has a weak arm, when there's no basis for that. It's just something about the way he plays that doesn't "look" right to some people.

But he's kind infuriating to them, because he keeps efficiently getting results. So it makes them dig in (inside) and wait for the day that he finally does something terrible.

jhns
08-23-2011, 10:00 AM
Tebow is not ready. Plain and simple. Orton is a veteran qb in the prime of his career, and also in his 3rd season of this offense. Of COURSE you start him. Get over it!

And the not ready Tebow completely outplayed Orton in this offense last season... Of course you start the player that has proven to be worse!

Liquid Courage
08-23-2011, 10:03 AM
Agreed, Kaylore! why not simply accept the fact that Tebow could not be successful with the absence of OTAs and a real offseason - from what I gather, he is still little more than a rookie in his approach and technique and will require time to mature as an NFL QB. let's give him that time and use him when the situation dictates... and let next year be his true line in the sand.

crush17
08-23-2011, 10:05 AM
And the not ready Tebow completely outplayed Orton in this offense last season... Of course you start the player that has proven to be worse!


Lol ok guy.

jhns
08-23-2011, 10:08 AM
Lol ok guy.

We were around the 20th ranked offense with Orton and seventh with Tebow. Tebow outplayed Orton by a lot.

For some reason, some of you think this means Orton gives the team the best chance to win.

OABB
08-23-2011, 10:09 AM
And the not ready Tebow completely outplayed Orton in this offense last season... Of course you start the player that has proven to be worse!

this is the saddest part. raw, innaccurate and not ready...and he still is the better qb. if he is better when he sucks, why not move firward with him? every other team in a rebuild that had a rookie qb outplay the starter and set records while not playing to his potential would start him.

we wont win with orton in the long run. he is what he is. i dont kniw how it can be seen any other way.

OABB
08-23-2011, 10:10 AM
Lol ok guy.

sorry that reality doesnt suit you..but this is the truth.

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Agreed, Kaylore! why not simply accept the fact that Tebow could not be successful with the absence of OTAs and a real offseason - from what I gather, he is still little more than a rookie in his approach and technique and will require time to mature as an NFL QB. let's give him that time and use him when the situation dictates... and let next year be his true line in the sand.

That's like knowingly passing on Elway and Marino (Luck and Barkley) in 83 because you had those 84 QBs to go after in case he can't hack it.

maher_tyler
08-23-2011, 10:12 AM
This sums it up pretty well. He's so polarizing and it's so bizzare. And both camps have taken an absolutionist approach. TheRev has already advocated firing John Fox for moving Quinn ahead of Tebow after the second freaking preseason game. That's right: Fire John Fox!

Then you have Tailgate Nut who tries to put on the pretense of wanting the "best guy" but really just hates Tebow on a personal level and doesn't want him to succeed.

There's no middle ground. And it seems every day that goes by, both sides get more and more irrational and ridiculous. The other thing they agree on is that there are only two options: Cut or Trade Tebow now or start him all year.

Both are incredibly stupid and unnecessary.

I'd place myself in the middle. As much as i wanted to see Tebow play/start this year, it's obvious he needs more time learning and honeing his mechanics. You don't want him out there picking up bad habits like getting happy feet, throwing off his back foot or running as soon as the 1st option isn't there. Once he learns this, i have no doubt he'll be a good QB. I definitely did not want to see another year of Orton but if he is earning that right, then you have to give it to him. If coaches and basically everyone from what i've heard says Orton is practicing better than Tebow, then he deserves and has earned his right to start, bottom line!

Garcia Bronco
08-23-2011, 10:12 AM
Agreed, Kaylore! why not simply accept the fact that Tebow could not be successful with the absence of OTAs and a real offseason - from what I gather, he is still little more than a rookie in his approach and technique and will require time to mature as an NFL QB. let's give him that time and use him when the situation dictates... and let next year be his true line in the sand.

It might not be next year. It might be two seasons from now, but I also agree.

Mediator12
08-23-2011, 10:15 AM
We were around the 20th ranked offense with Orton and seventh with Tebow. Tebow outplayed Orton by a lot.

For some reason, some of you think this means Orton gives the team the best chance to win.

Super small sample size. To infer more, is just blind bias.

OABB
08-23-2011, 10:17 AM
Super small sample size. To infer more, is just blind bias.

thats why we need abigger sample.

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 10:17 AM
Super small sample size. To infer more, is just blind bias.

While true, 2/3 of those games were against the same competition in WORSE surrounding circumstances, and provide an excellent parallel comparison.

Chris
08-23-2011, 10:19 AM
We were around the 20th ranked offense with Orton and seventh with Tebow. Tebow outplayed Orton by a lot.

For some reason, some of you think this means Orton gives the team the best chance to win.

We also went 6-0 with Orton until teams got enough tape and figured him out. Tebow was an unknown... that's partly the reason for his success. I believe in his ability to be a great player two years from now.

Mediator12
08-23-2011, 10:22 AM
While true, 2/3 of those games were against the same competition in WORSE surrounding circumstances, and provide an excellent parallel comparison.

Not really. There was no film of tebow and no time to really gameplan for those three games. Gameplanning needs around 4 games of tape and teams will start making a a guy like Tim do things he does not do very well.

Also, Mobile QB's require a different Coverage package adjustment. As teams get familiar with what Tebow can handle, the success curve will drop much the same way as Shanahan's and McD's offenses peaked by week six without superior players running them.

DenverBrit
08-23-2011, 10:22 AM
We also went 6-0 with Orton until teams got enough tape and figured him out. Tebow was an unknown... that's partly the reason for his success. I believe in his ability to be a great player two years from now.

Bingo!

TonyR
08-23-2011, 10:23 AM
We also went 6-0 with Orton until teams got enough tape and figured him out. Tebow was an unknown... that's partly the reason for his success.

Exactly. This and the fact that the games were meaningless.

The Johns (Fox and Elway) want to win. They are going with the guy they think, at least to start the season, gives them the better chance. Safe and fair to assume they know better than us.

jhns
08-23-2011, 10:23 AM
Super small sample size. To infer more, is just blind bias.

Yes it is a small sample size. Here are a few facts that show it still means something.

With Tebow, we scored over 20 in all three games. We don't have a three game stretch of 20+ point games in Ortons two years here, with Orton QBed games. There is only one stretch of three Orton led games that we scored more than the 25 point average that Tebow managed. That stretch is all from a single 49 point game in which Tebow scored two TDs to go with a defensive TD. Two teams that Tebow played, Orton also played. The Tebow led Broncos did a LOT better in both. Orton had more support from his RBs than Tebow did.

The Tebow led Broncos played better in that three game stretch than the Orton led Broncos have ever played in a three game stretch. I would say that makes the small sample size mean a little more. At the very least, why wouldn't you want to see if he can continue doing this?

TonyR
08-23-2011, 10:26 AM
Not really. There was no film of tebow and no time to really gameplan for those three games. Gameplanning needs around 4 games of tape and teams will start making a a guy like Tim do things he does not do very well.

Also, Mobile QB's require a different Coverage package adjustment. As teams get familiar with what Tebow can handle, the success curve will drop much the same way as Shanahan's and McD's offenses peaked by week six without superior players running them.

Yup, you can be fairly certain that teams would make Tebow beat them with the pass if he started this season. He'd probably throw significantly more INT's than Cutler in this scenario. It would be ugly.

Liquid Courage
08-23-2011, 10:27 AM
and again, why look at this in such black/white. Orton's weakness is in the Red Zone, his strength is between the 20s. Tebow's strength is in the Red Zone, his weakness is between the 20s. Until we can morph them into one player, why not use them when the situation dictates?

Mediator12
08-23-2011, 10:28 AM
Yes it is a small sample size. Here are a few facts that show it still means something.

With Tebow, we scored over 20 in all three games. We don't have a three game stretch of 20+ point games in Ortons two years here, with Orton QBed games. There is only one stretch of three Orton led games that we scored more than the 25 point average that Tebow managed. That stretch is all from a single 49 point game in which Tebow scored two TDs to go with a defensive TD. Two teams that Tebow played, Orton also played. The Tebow led Broncos did a LOT better in both. Orton had more support from his RBs than Tebow did.

The Tebow led Broncos played better in that three game stretch than the Orton led Broncos have ever played in a three game stretch. I would say that makes the small sample size mean a little more.

Nope. Read above. The tape on Tim Tebow was not there to gameplan. The coverages and defenses were much more simple based on this and they had to alter man coverage schemes due to his mobility without game tape. The first thing DC's do in installing a Gameplan is assess the Mobility of the QB and how it translates to coverages. Without a book on Tebow, those games were major advantage to the Broncos offense.

However, the small sample size still stands. 3 games even against a common opponent still does not accurately portray the capability and ability of Tebow.

TonyR
08-23-2011, 10:28 AM
...why wouldn't you want to see if he can continue doing this?

I think most of us would. But the coaches have seen enough to realize that he wouldn't be able to.

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 10:30 AM
Not really. There was no film of tebow and no time to really gameplan for those three games. Gameplanning needs around 4 games of tape and teams will start making a a guy like Tim do things he does not do very well.

Also, Mobile QB's require a different Coverage package adjustment. As teams get familiar with what Tebow can handle, the success curve will drop much the same way as Shanahan's and McD's offenses peaked by week six without superior players running them.

Oh please. Don't act like that's a big "adjustment". Especially for a team that already would have almost an identical package for when they previously played a pocket scrambler (more of a shuffler, I guess?) in Roesthlisberger.

Claiming the higher degree of success against these teams while in his first ever start on the road in the black hole under head coach Eric effing Studesville is flat out similarly laughable and you know it.

jhns
08-23-2011, 10:32 AM
We also went 6-0 with Orton until teams got enough tape and figured him out. Tebow was an unknown... that's partly the reason for his success. I believe in his ability to be a great player two years from now.

Orton wasn't the differense between the start and end of that season. The defense was. While this is a great theory, I would still love to see how Tebow handes the adjustments other teams make. Again, as I explained in another post, this team was never as consistent/good at scoring points with Orton over any three game stretch. Yes, that includes Ortons first six(or three) games here.

BroncoMan4ever
08-23-2011, 10:33 AM
We were around the 20th ranked offense with Orton and seventh with Tebow. Tebow outplayed Orton by a lot.

For some reason, some of you think this means Orton gives the team the best chance to win.

Tebow had a 50% completion percentage last season. was he exciting to watch...hell yes, did he provide a spark to a stagnant team in need of one....yes, did he show in camp and in preseason this year that he is the best chance for this team in 2011...NO

i like the guy. i hope he succeeds and becomes a beast in this league, but i have no problem letting the guy sit for another season and learn. he isn't ready.

one of the best things about Tebow is his confidence. if the team tosses him out there when he is not ready and he plays badly, gets beat up, begins to second guess himself, the media gets to him, the hype is too much, if any of those things and a bunch of others begin to get to him and his confidence falters, you can kiss goodbye any idea or hope of him eventually becoming anything in the NFL.

the league is full of success stories of guys who waited until they were ready. why rush the guy if he isn't?

broncocalijohn
08-23-2011, 10:34 AM
Does anyone feel that after reading the Post article, you get the feeling that Norm from florida is MacGruder and Rob from Lafayette is Leo (TGN)?

Irish Stout
08-23-2011, 10:34 AM
I have to believe that more than anything John Fox and John Elway want to win football games. They will make the decisions they think are best to do that regardless of what anyone else thinks. You'd be hard pressed to argue that they're making decisions to do anything other than to win football games. We don't have to like the decisions, but you have to know that they're doing what they truly believe is best with what they've got. They've decided that with their QBs. We have to live with it.

Therefore, this continual argument is tiresome.

Mediator12
08-23-2011, 10:36 AM
Oh please. Don't act like that's a big "adjustment". Especially for a team that already would have almost an identical package for when they previously played a pocket scrambler (more of a shuffler, I guess?) in Roesthlisberger.

Claiming the higher degree of success against these teams while in his first ever start on the road in the black hole under head coach Eric effing Studesville is flat out similarly laughable and you know it.

No, or I would never have said it.

They were playing a man Coverage team there and Tebow's mobility was an issue from the get go. The matchups from PIT to DEN are very different as well. I really can not believe you of all people are not understanding of this. The gameplans would have been completely different and the Raiders are not a heavy zone blitz team that would have given Tebow fits.

Now, you are really getting emotional ;D

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 10:38 AM
Tebow had a 50% completion percentage last season. was he exciting to watch...hell yes, did he provide a spark to a stagnant team in need of one....yes, did he show in camp and in preseason this year that he is the best chance for this team in 2011...NO

i like the guy. i hope he succeeds and becomes a beast in this league, but i have no problem letting the guy sit for another season and learn. he isn't ready.

one of the best things about Tebow is his confidence. if the team tosses him out there when he is not ready and he plays badly, gets beat up, begins to second guess himself, the media gets to him, the hype is too much, if any of those things and a bunch of others begin to get to him and his confidence falters, you can kiss goodbye any idea or hope of him eventually becoming anything in the NFL.

the league is full of success stories of guys who waited until they were ready. why rush the guy if he isn't?

What's more important to you:

A 10 yard run
A 10 yard pass

?

Because if we treat them as equals, through his first ever 3 starts only (2/3 against 2 of the best defenses in the league):

850 yards, 7 TDs to 3 INTs and a 97.3 QBR

jhns
08-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Nope. Read above. The tape on Tim Tebow was not there to gameplan. The coverages and defenses were much more simple based on this and they had to alter man coverage schemes due to his mobility without game tape. The first thing DC's do in installing a Gameplan is assess the Mobility of the QB and how it translates to coverages. Without a book on Tebow, those games were major advantage to the Broncos offense.

However, the small sample size still stands. 3 games even against a common opponent still does not accurately portray the capability and ability of Tebow.

Teams knew Tebow would run. The second and third team knew exactly how mobile he was after he pretty much only ran the first game. Again though, his three game stretch was better, and far more consistent, than any three game stretch with Orton.

Also, if your theory was correct, QBs would always look better in their first few starts. I just looked up a few young QBs and I am not seeing that trend.

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 10:44 AM
No, or I would never have said it.

They were playing a man Coverage team there and Tebow's mobility was an issue from the get go. The matchups from PIT to DEN are very different as well. I really can not believe you of all people are not understanding of this. The gameplans would have been completely different and the Raiders are not a heavy zone blitz team that would have given Tebow fits.

Now, you are really getting emotional ;D

Honestly I can't understand I'm reading this from you as it's some of the most absurd claims I've ever read.

1. The Raiders would already have similar packages installed as they played vs mobile QBs and this was at the end of the season. It's not like this was week 1 or 2 where they're potentially behind on installs.

2. The Raiders would already have gameplanned specifically for Tebow to a degree. We'd already used him before our first matchup vs Oakland... in fact, the week prior was Tebow's "coming out party" against the Jets where he saw double digit snaps.

3. This was just a modified gameplan for 1 player that they've already seen.

4. He dropped back and passed 16 total times. Naturally you neglect this because it runs contrary to the face of your entire "point".

5. What happened to "players not plays"? Ha!

Anxiously awaiting your futile attempt at a reply.

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 10:47 AM
Anxiously awaiting your futile attempt at a reply.

Actually gotta run.

Will be back later though.

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2011, 10:47 AM
I have to believe that more than anything John Fox and John Elway want to win football games. They will make the decisions they think are best to do that regardless of what anyone else thinks. You'd be hard pressed to argue that they're making decisions to do anything other than to win football games.

The "Suck for Luck" thread is paging you. :)

24champ
08-23-2011, 10:50 AM
The problem is pro football coaches don't operate on faith, at least not until a player has earned it. Broncos coaches watching the team's public training camp practices have seen what everybody else in attendance has seen: Orton and Quinn have been better.


This is what it comes down to for me. Has Tebow earned the starting job? Probably not, as reports in training camp indicate and also the draft reports, many stated that Tebow was a major project and won't start for a few years.

The lockout hurt Tebow's development, and looks like his time will have to wait.

TailgateNut
08-23-2011, 11:02 AM
Not sure......but I'll bet if Tebow were an atheist, then TGN would LOVE him!

:sunshine:


WRONG!

I didn't jump on the Griese bandwagon.
I didn't jump on the ****ler bandwagon
...and I wont jump on the Timbow bandwagon..


Get the picture?

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 11:21 AM
Posting from smartphone while prevacation shopping to answer a "you ok?" Rep comment lol

Yes, fine haha. It is flat out insulting to see one of, if not THE, premier defensive poster make the claim that:

A rookie project in his first ever start on the road puts the opposing DC at a disadvantage.

...That's what DC's league wide effing dream of.

Nothing about that statement was anything less than asanine and ignorant and considering he's not ignorant he's flat out lying. Now if you'll excuse me I have to buy some fake mustaches for a sweet prank my friend and I are pulling on the girls

Tom G
08-23-2011, 11:22 AM
Preseason games QB passer rating so far:

Tebow - 113.4
Orton - 110.0
Quinn - 95.1

Just stats - more grist for the mill.

dsmoot
08-23-2011, 11:30 AM
This sums it up pretty well. He's so polarizing and it's so bizzare. And both camps have taken an absolutionist approach. TheRev has already advocated firing John Fox for moving Quinn ahead of Tebow after the second freaking preseason game. That's right: Fire John Fox!

Then you have Tailgate Nut who tries to put on the pretense of wanting the "best guy" but really just hates Tebow on a personal level and doesn't want him to succeed.

There's no middle ground. And it seems every day that goes by, both sides get more and more irrational and ridiculous. The other thing they agree on is that there are only two options: Cut or Trade Tebow now or start him all year.

Both are incredibly stupid and unnecessary.

Kaylore,

For personal reasons, I really want to see Tebow succeed. It just comes down to performance and credibility. I hate hearing about Tebow not being a practice player. Practice and exhibition games do matter. The Broncos have paid Fox to pick the QB that gives them the best chance to win now. I believe Fox is more than capable and has no emotion driving his decision. Obviously, not many fans are so objective. At the end of the day, real competition at all positions is what is best for this team. If that means Quinn being No.2, so be it. Tim needs to have honest self assessment of the situation and react accordingly. PERFORM, pure and simple. Nothing else matters. If I had any advice for Tebow ... be quiet about your situation, continue to work on those deficiencies and seize every opportunity. This whole situation needs to quiet down in the press for the teams sake. Orton is No.1 for now. Things have a way of working out in the long term.

TailgateNut
08-23-2011, 11:31 AM
thats why we need abigger sample.


We. We= peoplee who don't count. The decision makers have enough info to decide Tebow isn't ready. Get over your mancrush and live with it.

TailgateNut
08-23-2011, 11:35 AM
Does anyone feel that after reading the Post article, you get the feeling that Norm from florida is MacGruder and Rob from Lafayette is Leo (TGN)?

ROFL! although I'm currently doing a large project for the city of Lafayette, I'm not Rob.

bowtown
08-23-2011, 11:37 AM
Kaylore,

For personal reasons, I really want to see Tebow succeed. It just comes down to performance and credibility. I hate hearing about Tebow not being a practice player. Practice and exhibition games do matter. The Broncos have paid Fox to pick the QB that gives them the best chance to win now. I believe Fox is more than capable and has no emotion driving his decision. Obviously, not many fans are so objective. At the end of the day, real competition at all positions is what is best for this team. If that means Quinn being No.2, so be it. Tim needs to have honest self assessment of the situation and react accordingly. PERFORM, pure and simple. Nothing else matters. If I had any advice for Tebow ... be quiet about your situation, continue to work on those deficiencies and seize every opportunity. This whole situation needs to quiet down in the press for the teams sake. Orton is No.1 for now. Things have a way of working out in the long term.

A real QB competition is almost never what's best for a team.

Inkana7
08-23-2011, 11:41 AM
Posting from smartphone while prevacation shopping to answer a "you ok?" Rep comment lol

Yes, fine haha. It is flat out insulting to see one of, if not THE, premier defensive poster make the claim that:

A rookie project in his first ever start on the road puts the opposing DC at a disadvantage.

...That's what DC's league wide effing dream of.

Nothing about that statement was anything less than asanine and ignorant and considering he's not ignorant he's flat out lying. Now if you'll excuse me I have to buy some fake mustaches for a sweet prank my friend and I are pulling on the girls

Yup. He's lying, Elway's lying, Fox is lying. Everyone must be lying.

TonyR
08-23-2011, 11:44 AM
The Broncos have paid Fox to pick the QB that gives them the best chance to win now. I believe Fox is more than capable and has no emotion driving his decision. Obviously, not many fans are so objective.

It's like people completely igore the fact that the Johns not only have all the same evidence we do but also additional evidence that we don't have to base their decisions on. Plus the fact that they're under some pressure to win football games, while we're under pressure to decide between pizza and wings for a snack while we watch the game.

missingnumber7
08-23-2011, 11:47 AM
Preseason games QB passer rating so far against 1st Team Defenses:

Tebow - 0
Orton - 110.0
Quinn - 0
Just stats - more grist for the mill.

Edited for accuracy

jhns
08-23-2011, 11:51 AM
Edited for accuracy

As if that can be held against the other two. Tebow played with a much worse line and run game...

MacGruder
08-23-2011, 12:05 PM
They've said for years he has a weak arm, when there's no basis for that. It's just something about the way he plays that doesn't "look" right to some people.

But he's kind infuriating to them, because he keeps efficiently getting results. So it makes them dig in (inside) and wait for the day that he finally does something terrible.

I also wonder if it has something to do with him being at Florida and dominating.. because when he was at Florida people were so skeptical because the team around him was supposed to be so dominant.. this is how people rationalized his success and why they were so skeptical and a big part of why they believed he couldn't play.

Now that he is in the NFL and playing well people still see all his "flaws" even though they really aren't.. it's just his style of play and being a rookie. But it adds to that split view of Tebow's ability and then they claim the people who like Tebow are just irrational then they hate Tebow even more.. haha

This may be why Hoge has gone so crazy. It's his stupidity about the QB position.. tied to his hatred of people he assumes are stupid about football. It's a combination of stupidity and arrogance - snobbishness.

Lestat
08-23-2011, 12:09 PM
the article sums it up perfectly. much as i don't like Orton as the starter he and Quinn are the best options at present. Tebow has a knack for making plays on the field but he hasn't done enough in the coaches eyes to unseat those two.

so now it's all about continued development for Tebow, he has to get the footwork and release point down. Elway needs to be working with him 24/7 if need be to get him ready.
after we get to game 10 or so it's possible he might be ready to come in and take over.
but it's going to take a long time to get Tebow to unlearn bad habits.

missingnumber7
08-23-2011, 12:12 PM
I also wonder if it has something to do with him being at Florida and dominating.. because when he was at Florida people were so skeptical because the team around him was supposed to be so dominant.. this is how people rationalized his success and why they were so skeptical and a big part of why they believed he couldn't play.

Now that he is in the NFL and playing well people still see all his "flaws" even though they really aren't.. it's just his style of play and being a rookie. But it adds to that split view of Tebow's ability and then they claim the people who like Tebow are just irrational then they hate Tebow even more.. haha

This may be why Hoge has gone so crazy. It's his stupidity about the QB position.. tied to his hatred of people he assumes are stupid about football. It's a combination of stupidity and arrogance - snobbishness.


Ok...2 questions...when has Tebow played well? All I have heard were the reports of his inaccuracy. And Thats more than just a 'flaw' for a qb thats is a GLARING FLAW.

and as for the ESPN talent evaluators, that is what they are, they look at tape of the specific positions they are told to evaluate and generate opinions. He's looked at more QB tape than most people on this message board have watched FB in their entire life. He's just comparing abilities from one person to everyone else in the league. The problem that people have is that they say that being a nice guy and working hard should Give him the starting spot. I could work my arse off for 100 years and still never scratch the surface of a D2 FB team let alone the NFL.

That being said I think Tim has a place on the team, just not the starter...a nice gimmick maybe.

MacGruder
08-23-2011, 12:31 PM
Ok...2 questions...when has Tebow played well? All I have heard were the reports of his inaccuracy. And Thats more than just a 'flaw' for a qb thats is a GLARING FLAW.

If you look at the times we all have had the opportunity to see Tebow play he has outplayed other rookies - players at his experience level who are already playing.

So you can say Orton and Quinn are better but we have seen Orton and Quinn look good when it doesn't matter then look bad when it does..

and as for the ESPN talent evaluators, that is what they are, they look at tape of the specific positions they are told to evaluate and generate opinions. He's looked at more QB tape than most people on this message board have watched FB in their entire life.

I disagree... from what I have seen these analyst think they know so much about the game they can watch someone play one game and they know. They are arrogant idiots.

Take Steve Young... he was very skeptical of Tebow.. and then Tebow played great last season against Houston and Young completely reversed course and said Tebow should revolutionize the NFL. That shows me he did not know Tebow's game well and bought into what everyone else was saying without researching it himself and making his own real evaluation. Plus.. the context of game situations is so complex I think it's easy for analysts to rationalize what they see and re-enforce their own biases as well.

One thing I see guys do is they look at both Tebow's abilities in a vacuum. They just focus on one aspect of his game instead of looking at the whole game. For example I think many look at his short passing and assume he sucks because that is the weakest part of his game. This is because in today's NFL most guys are great short passers and weak downfield. Or they look at his long motion and don't consider he is probably the most durable Qb in the NFL so his long motion and getting hit doesn't impact him as much giving him a big edge over other Qbs.

Bottom line is he is just really really different which is why it is so hard for people to figure out why he is so good. so they rationalize it..

It's the complete opposite with Orton.. people can't figure out how a guy who look such the part of a Qb and puts up such great (but hollow) numbers can suck so hard and lose so much.. so they rationalize that it is the team and not Orton.

He's just comparing abilities from one person to everyone else in the league. The problem that people have is that they say that being a nice guy and working hard should Give him the starting spot. I could work my arse off for 100 years and still never scratch the surface of a D2 FB team let alone the NFL.

This is a complex issue.. because if you are forcing Tebow to fit in a certain system and play a certain way then yes I agree.

But if you let him play his game he doesn't need to change that much.. but NFL people are so conservative.. they are terrified of the unknown and have no way of knowing how his game will actually translate i full games game to game.... and they don't know how to really even determine that from watching him. The only way to tell is to let him play.. but they are just so afraid it will fail they can't do it so they will look like fools or something. So it's easier to just play it safe..

missingnumber7
08-23-2011, 12:46 PM
I disagree... from what I have seen these analyst think they know so much about the game they can watch someone play one game and they know. They are arrogant idiots.

Take Steve Young... he was very skeptical of Tebow.. and then Tebow played great last season against Houston and Young completely reversed course and said Tebow should revolutionize the NFL. That shows me he did not know Tebow's game well and bought into what everyone else was saying without researching it himself and making his own real evaluation. Plus.. the context of game situations is so complex I think it's easy for analysts to rationalize what they see and re-enforce their own biases as well.

One thing I see guys do is they look at both Tebow's abilities in a vacuum. They just focus on one aspect of his game instead of looking at the whole game. For example I think many look at his short passing and assume he sucks because that is the weakest part of his game. This is because in today's NFL most guys are great short passers and weak downfield. Or they look at his long motion and don't consider he is probably the most durable Qb in the NFL so his long motion and getting hit doesn't impact him as much giving him a big edge over other Qbs.

Bottom line is he is just really really different which is why it is so hard for people to figure out why he is so good. so they rationalize it..

It's the complete opposite with Orton.. people can't figure out how a guy who look such the part of a Qb and puts up such great (but hollow) numbers can suck so hard and lose so much.. so they rationalize that it is the team and not Orton.



This is a complex issue.. because if you are forcing Tebow to fit in a certain system and play a certain way then yes I agree.

But if you let him play his game he doesn't need to change that much.. but NFL people are so conservative.. they are terrified of the unknown and have no way of knowing how his game will actually translate i full games game to game.... and they don't know how to really even determine that from watching him. The only way to tell is to let him play.. but they are just so afraid it will fail they can't do it so they will look like fools or something. So it's easier to just play it safe..


I was waiting for your first comment to come out. It is extremely obvious to me that ESPN analysts have an agenda. And sometimes it sounds like there is a company line they feed and sometimes there is a split amongst analysts. I think Tebow follows that split. Everyone is busting on Tebow because he was drafted in the first round and just doesn't show that first round ability.


As for the last statements about Tebow fitting a system, to an extent he has to, unless you are going to go a completely different direction with the offense. IE smaller quicker OLine, RB's that are quick edge type runners, and TE's who are more HBack types than a traditional blocking TE. That is a complete rebuild of the offense that we have and completely outside of the scheme that Fox has ever ran. To get a coach that has ran that type of offense you would be hiring a college coach. They had the perfect opportunity to bring that in either as a HC or as an OC and they didn't which means one of two things to me. Tebow isn't ready to be the guy now and they want him to fit their system. Or that they are going to make a complete shift in how offense in the NFL is ran.

doonwise
08-23-2011, 01:14 PM
The Christians want their Champion Against Satan to succeed...I just want him to win football games.

bronco militia
08-23-2011, 01:15 PM
The Christians want their Champion Against Satan to succeed...I just want him to win football games.

good point...we only play the Raiders twice a year

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 01:23 PM
Yup. He's lying, Elway's lying, Fox is lying. Everyone must be lying.

Let me guess, couldn't read the post again?

Because Elway and Fox have nothing to do with it.

Good job again though!

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 01:26 PM
Considering this thread is 100% complete filth from start to finish (and I'm absolutely a part of it), this is probably the best place to post this:

-Meeting best friend and his wife with my gf at a beautiful resort in Mexico
-One day we're gonna tell the girls we'll meet em by the pool in a few, casually so it's not conspicuous
-Then we're gonna change into speedos, fake mustaches and aviators and come do stretches right in their faces at the pool

Win or facepalm or a mix of both?

broncocalijohn
08-23-2011, 01:28 PM
Considering this thread is 100% complete filth from start to finish (and I'm absolutely a part of it), this is probably the best place to post this:

-Meeting best friend and his wife with my gf at a beautiful resort in Mexico
-One day we're gonna tell the girls we'll meet em by the pool in a few, casually so it's not conspicuous
-Then we're gonna change into speedos, fake mustaches and aviators and come do stretches right in their faces at the pool

Win or facepalm or a mix of both?

add sox with sandals for the German look.

TailgateNut
08-23-2011, 01:28 PM
Let me guess, couldn't read the post again?

Because Elway and Fox have nothing to do with it.

Good job again though!

BTW: before i forget to mention it. I love your avatar. Teebow with his head hung low. Frown cannon #2:yayaya:

24champ
08-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Considering this thread is 100% complete filth from start to finish (and I'm absolutely a part of it), this is probably the best place to post this:

-Meeting best friend and his wife with my gf at a beautiful resort in Mexico
-One day we're gonna tell the girls we'll meet em by the pool in a few, casually so it's not conspicuous
-Then we're gonna change into speedos, fake mustaches and aviators and come do stretches right in their faces at the pool

Win or facepalm or a mix of both?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000972371/bertstare_xlarge.jpeg

vancejohnson82
08-23-2011, 01:29 PM
add sox with sandals for the German look.

I completely agree with this....

bronco militia
08-23-2011, 01:30 PM
Considering this thread is 100% complete filth from start to finish (and I'm absolutely a part of it), this is probably the best place to post this:

-Meeting best friend and his wife with my gf at a beautiful resort in Mexico
-One day we're gonna tell the girls we'll meet em by the pool in a few, casually so it's not conspicuous
-Then we're gonna change into speedos, fake mustaches and aviators and come do stretches right in their faces at the pool

Win or facepalm or a mix of both?

Filth!!!?1?1? die trunk boy!

:cuss::cuss::cuss:

errand
08-23-2011, 01:34 PM
As if that can be held against the other two. Tebow played with a much worse line and run game...

And he also played against a worst line and pass rush....

Tombstone RJ
08-23-2011, 01:35 PM
Considering this thread is 100% complete filth from start to finish (and I'm absolutely a part of it), this is probably the best place to post this:

-Meeting best friend and his wife with my gf at a beautiful resort in Mexico
-One day we're gonna tell the girls we'll meet em by the pool in a few, casually so it's not conspicuous
-Then we're gonna change into speedos, fake mustaches and aviators and come do stretches right in their faces at the pool

Win or facepalm or a mix of both?

I don't get it. then again, I'm not a cheezeball.

MacGruder
08-23-2011, 01:37 PM
I was waiting for your first comment to come out. It is extremely obvious to me that ESPN analysts have an agenda. And sometimes it sounds like there is a company line they feed and sometimes there is a split amongst analysts. I think Tebow follows that split. Everyone is busting on Tebow because he was drafted in the first round and just doesn't show that first round ability.

Conventional first round ability. True.. but I think this is more because of habits.. which will only change by playing IMO.

Like that play where Tebow was scrambling and was fined.. the only reason that play got so weird is because Tebow was trying to use his athleticism but without taking hits. His natural instinct is to go for the end zone even if he gets some contact. This is stuff he needs to learn in games IMO.


As for the last statements about Tebow fitting a system, to an extent he has to, unless you are going to go a completely different direction with the offense. IE smaller quicker OLine, RB's that are quick edge type runners,

That is what Tebow had at Florida - small runners.. but I don't think it has to be that way. Tebow can run outside. he never had a physical dominant SEC runner at Florida that allowed him to run outside the tackles himself more. This is why I think he is so underrated as a runner. Cam had that last season at Auburn which is why he was so overrated.

and TE's who are more HBack types than a traditional blocking TE. That is a complete rebuild of the offense that we have and completely outside of the scheme that Fox has ever ran.

I thought McCoy was going to run the O.. I think McD's system is ideal for Tebow.. Fox just has to let that be emphasized.

To get a coach that has ran that type of offense you would be hiring a college coach.

McD's system which he got from Bellichick Belli built from mining Urban Meyer's offense from Florida. This was why McD drafted Tebow. Maybe they are just postponing this plan of using McD's O until Orton is gone.. IF Tebow is good enough in their opinion?

They had the perfect opportunity to bring that in either as a HC or as an OC and they didn't which means one of two things to me. Tebow isn't ready to be the guy now and they want him to fit their system. Or that they are going to make a complete shift in how offense in the NFL is ran.

I just don't understand why taking a risk is bad? It can be really beneficial. With fan interest and causing opponents fits.

But we don't know all the details.. so much is speculation.. but I just tend to think it's much more likely people are just scared.. and if anyone can't adapt it's Fox and Elway.. which is why it is silly to keep Tebow... for everybody.

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 01:46 PM
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000972371/bertstare_xlarge.jpeg

You'll see pics on fbook I'm sure Ha!

ghwk
08-23-2011, 01:58 PM
Considering this thread is 100% complete filth from start to finish (and I'm absolutely a part of it), this is probably the best place to post this:

-Meeting best friend and his wife with my gf at a beautiful resort in Mexico
-One day we're gonna tell the girls we'll meet em by the pool in a few, casually so it's not conspicuous
-Then we're gonna change into speedos, fake mustaches and aviators and come do stretches right in their faces at the pool

Win or facepalm or a mix of both?

If you can pull it off like Russell Brand in "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" it'll be a total win. If not then you may have to look for a new GF ROFL!

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 02:06 PM
If you can pull it off like Russell Brand in "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" it'll be a total win. If not then you may have to look for a new GF ROFL!

Haha

...A chance I'm willing to take.

I can't wait to see how red her face gets with embarrassment.

zdoor
08-23-2011, 02:40 PM
Considering this thread is 100% complete filth from start to finish (and I'm absolutely a part of it), this is probably the best place to post this:

-Meeting best friend and his wife with my gf at a beautiful resort in Mexico
-One day we're gonna tell the girls we'll meet em by the pool in a few, casually so it's not conspicuous
-Then we're gonna change into speedos, fake mustaches and aviators and come do stretches right in their faces at the pool

Win or facepalm or a mix of both?

LOL...

TheReverend
08-23-2011, 02:42 PM
LOL...

I know right?!

I'd put up pics here, but BCJ will get insecure and I don't want to hurt his feelings again.

fontaine
08-23-2011, 03:08 PM
There is a middle ground. Seriously. It is just hard for people around here to take. Fans are much different than coaches. Coaching helps you see what bias does with kids and their parents. It is no different here. Everyone "just needs the opportunity" to play and magically they will not fail!

For all the investment people make in their opinions, they have a hard time getting past their first impression bias filter.

I'm having a hard time getting past my bias filter too Med.
I'm biased against all three.

They're all flawed QBs that aren't going to win at this point unless we've got a superb defense/running game.

Can you help me get past my bia. . . ah hell, never mind. All three suck and aren't worth debating over.

dsmoot
08-23-2011, 04:06 PM
A real QB competition is almost never what's best for a team.

Sorry to disagree. A competition has to have a decision day. Otherwise, you create controversy which is not good for a team. You pick a guy and put your full support behind him. You don't jerk him at the first sign of problems. Even the Cowboys of the late 60's had two viable QB's in Morton and Staubach that truly were competing against each other. Landry tried the horrible experiment of alternating plays, then series which was good for nothing but continuity problems. Pick a guy and play him. The Cowboys didn't win a Superbowl until they made that decision.

Fortunately in the Broncos case, it is clear cut.