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TheReverend
08-22-2011, 04:59 PM
Receptions last year:
-Lloyd: 77
-Gaffney: 65
-Royal: 59
-Rbs: 77
-TEs: 27

Seems like a pretty decent distribution, but I'm no expert.

Orton's passer rating before he was hurt for the last two games he played: 96.0 (You'll have to trust me, as I calculated it by hand)

Let's remember here, the bar that you set was "awful." Not great, good, average, or even below average, but awful. I enjoyed getting to watch Tebow last year, and I'd like to see more of him this year, but I refuse to submit my opinions on either Orton or Tebow through the Broncos QB algorithm (also used for politics, hotness of celebrities, and BBQ/grilling techniques):

1) Form opinion
2) Exaggerate opinion by 10x
3) Multiply conviction by 15x
4) Post on internet

Is it?

Lloyd almost doubled the next leading receivers yardage and more than quintupled his TDs.

RBs accounted for #3.

MacGruder
08-22-2011, 05:03 PM
Fox and Elway are thinking Orton is a safe option.They are forgetting about Orton's history. When the pressure is more, Orton fails.
People learn once they experience. In this case, both of them will realize the mistake of starting Orton.Unfortunately, fans has to suffer in this process.

It's an exact repeat of last season..

And then Tebow will be forced to play at the end of the season and look even better than he did last season and we will realize we have wasted 2 years on Orton and Quinn now when Tebow could have been developing.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Every year NFL teams are so desperate to win they take the seeming safest option even though it's known to be doomed to fail.

bendog
08-22-2011, 05:05 PM
If this is the crux of your counterargument then you lost it already. From what I have read and have seen for myself, his mechanics are the same as last season...which happens when you do not get work in with your coaching staff for 6 months.

Unless I missed something I thought our ex WR coach is the QB coach?

:Broncos:

I'm not going to find the links for you. The post reported his mechanics regressed and coaches were most unhappy. Quinn hired a qb coach; Tebow signed books and did cardio.

McCoy was the OC and coached qbs till tiny brought in his even more tiny brother. If you don't think wr coaches watch qb's, think more.

It's not "my argument." I'm not freaking debating with you. I'm saying your STUPID
The OC, McCouy:

McCoy enters his 12th NFL season and third as the Broncosí offensive coordinator. He worked under Fox for seven seasons in Carolina as passing game coordinator (2007-08), quarterbacks coach (2002-08) and offensive assistant (2002) before joining the Broncos in 2009. He has overseen six 3,000-yard passing seasons from his quarterbacks including four from Jake Delhomme and two from Kyle Orton. In 2010, Orton ranked fourth in the NFL with 281.0 passing yards per game and quarterback Tim Tebow opened Denverís final three contests, while recording with the highest passer rating (82.1) of the NFLís eight rookie starting quarterbacks.

McCoy, who also coached the Broncosí quarterbacks in 2009 in addition to his offensive coordinator responsibilities, worked in a variety of offensive capacities with the Panthers after beginning his coaching career with the club in 2000. He had stints as Carolinaís passing game coordinator (2007-08), quarterbacks coach (2002-08) and wide receivers coach (2001) while also handling offensive assistant duties (2000, Ď02) with the team.

Gase

Gase, who enters his seventh NFL season and third with the Broncos, will coach the quarterbacks after two years instructing the teamís wide receivers. Gase, who coached a Pro Bowl receiver in each of his two seasons with the club, including Brandon Lloyd who led the NFL with 1,448 receiving yards in 2010, came to Denver after one season as an offensive assistant at San Francisco. He spent his first three NFL seasons with Detroit, including a year as the Lionsí quarterbacks coach in 2007, helping Jon Kitna total the sixth-most passing yards (4,068) in the NFL while becoming only the ninth player in NFL history to post consecutive 4,000-yard passing seasons. Gase started his coaching career at Louisiana State University, where he spent three years under Head Coach Nick Saban.

mkporter
08-22-2011, 05:14 PM
Is it?

Lloyd almost doubled the next leading receivers yardage and more than quintupled his TDs.

RBs accounted for #3.

I'm confused about what your argument is here. Lloyd gaining more yards and scoring more touchdowns per completion says to me that Orton is using Lloyd very effectively, not preferentially passing to him when it would be better to pass to someone else.

baja
08-22-2011, 05:17 PM
You also said Tebows mechanics suck and we ****ed up by drafting him in the first round. Now, you're busy following the herd of Tebonites even though superchild hasn't improved his mechanics nor has a firm grasp of dealing with NFL caliber defenses and still runs like a scared chicken at the first sign of trouble.

You're a joke and a cheater (see last years pick-em). Nothing lower. (except whale **** at the bottom of the ocean)

Little know fact. Whale shiit floats.

DarkHorse30
08-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Go Orton! I'm glad Fox put this "QB controversy" to rest. Anybody can see that Orton is the superior QB right now. Do you know he's only 4 years older than Tebow?

Blart
08-22-2011, 05:22 PM
Comment from PFT,

Anyone notice that the Broncos have 2 1st round QBs fighting for a backup spot to Kyle Orton?

Cracked me up

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 05:25 PM
I'm confused about what your argument is here. Lloyd gaining more yards and scoring more touchdowns per completion says to me that Orton is using Lloyd very effectively, not preferentially passing to him when it would be better to pass to someone else.

Lol CIDTL was coined for a reason...

But sure, you're right, those were all Kyle using Lloyd effectively

Bob's your Information Minister
08-22-2011, 05:29 PM
**** you Elway

THAT'S THE SPIRIT!

http://bautisfinancial.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/Elway.jpg

elsid13
08-22-2011, 05:30 PM
Might as well get it over with...

going for the old prostrate exam huh?

mkporter
08-22-2011, 05:36 PM
Lol CIDTL was coined for a reason...

But sure, you're right, those were all Kyle using Lloyd effectively

CIDTL? You've got me there, I have no idea what that is.

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, I still don't understand your point.
If Orton is locking on to Lloyd at the expense of better options, I would expect to see that Lloyd's efficiency would be much worse than the other options. This was was not the case.

ColoradoDarin
08-22-2011, 05:42 PM
CIDTL? You've got me there, I have no idea what that is.

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, I still don't understand your point.
If Orton is locking on to Lloyd at the expense of better options, I would expect to see that Lloyd's efficiency would be much worse than the other options. This was was not the case.


Chuck

It

Deep

To

Lloyd

go_broncos
08-22-2011, 05:42 PM
CIDTL? You've got me there, I have no idea what that is.

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, I still don't understand your point.
If Orton is locking on to Lloyd at the expense of better options, I would expect to see that Lloyd's efficiency would be much worse than the other options. This was was not the case.

you don't know CIDTL...Hilarious!
That's the only play Mcd and Orton knows.

mkporter
08-22-2011, 05:49 PM
Chuck

It

Deep

To

Lloyd

Thanks. Remember it now.

Lloyd's catch rate: 50% (18.8 yds/rec)
Gaffney's catch rate: 58% (13.5 yds/rec)
Royal's catch rate: 57% (10.6 yds/rec)

So I can expect to get 9.4 yards on each throw to Lloyd, 7.8 yards to Gaffney, and 6 yards to Royal. CIDTL seems like a pretty smart strategy, no?

baja
08-22-2011, 05:57 PM
Thanks. Remember it now.

Lloyd's catch rate: 50% (18.8 yds/rec)
Gaffney's catch rate: 58% (13.5 yds/rec)
Royal's catch rate: 57% (10.6 yds/rec)

So I can expect to get 9.4 yards on each throw to Lloyd, 7.8 yards to Gaffney, and 6 yards to Royal. CIDTL seems like a pretty smart strategy, no?

Not if you need 6 yards for a first down and he misses on a 20 yard throw to lloyd when Royal was open for 8.

mkporter
08-22-2011, 06:29 PM
Not if you need 6 yards for a first down and he misses on a 20 yard throw to lloyd when Royal was open for 8.

5/10 times we get the 20 yards.
6/10 times we get the 8.

Situation certainly matters, but plays to Lloyd were worth a lot more than plays to our other receivers on average.

TailgateNut
08-22-2011, 09:50 PM
Little know fact. Whale shiit floats.


I fished the Atlantic above and below the equator, the gulf of mexico, and the Pacific ocean and have never seen floating whale ****.

Link;)

baja
08-22-2011, 09:58 PM
I fished the Atlantic above and below the equator, the gulf of mexico, and the Pacific ocean and have never seen floating whale ****.

Link;)

That is because it breaks up almost instantly and also is consumed by sea gulls and small fish. All non meat eaters shiit floats.

If you ever smelled a sea gull's breath you would not doubt this.

Have you ever seen whale shiit on the bottom of any ocean floor.

HAT
08-22-2011, 10:01 PM
All non meat eaters shiit floats.



I dated a vegetarian for a minute and this simply isn't true.

Hamrob
08-22-2011, 10:10 PM
Hey, I'll be a supporter of Orton.

But, if he starts falling down when guys brush up against him and wets the bed in the red zone...I won't be the only one chanting TEBOW!!!

Orton needs to win. Otherwise, we should be spending this time seeing what the kid can do.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2011, 10:20 PM
That is because it breaks up almost instantly and also is consumed by sea gulls and small fish. All non meat eaters shiit floats.

If you ever smelled a sea gull's breath you would not doubt this.

Have you ever seen whale shiit on the bottom of any ocean floor.

Never thought I'd see banter about whether whale **** floats on the OMane. Maybe it's time to leave the forums forever.

Steve Sewell
08-22-2011, 10:21 PM
I dated a vegetarian for a minute and this simply isn't true.

You checked his stool?

baja
08-22-2011, 10:31 PM
I dated a vegetarian for a minute and this simply isn't true.


You check out her poop?


Lots of Vegetarians eat cheese and eggs and "call" themselves Vegetarians but they are not.

baja
08-22-2011, 10:33 PM
Never thought I'd see banter about whether whale **** floats on the OMane. Maybe it's time to leave the forums forever.

It's sad how humorless some of you guys are. You would have hated the early years here.

TailgateNut
08-22-2011, 11:20 PM
It's sad how humorless some of you guys are. You would have hated the early years here.

The humor is still among us, some just DON'T GET IT.

Miss I.
08-23-2011, 12:07 AM
You check out her poop?


Lots of Vegetarians eat cheese and eggs and "call" themselves Vegetarians but they are not.

Silly Baja, Vegans don't eat any animal products (including eggs and dairy). Vegetarians only avoid the actual flesh of an animal, though I would question my friends who claim vegetarian but still eat fish (seems to me tuna is the chicken of the sea so definitely meat...;D ) That's how I always understood it anyway. I do find my vegan friends who still wear leather kind of hysterical, won't eat it, but you will wear it? odd.

SoCalBronco
08-23-2011, 12:10 AM
Silly Baja, Vegans don't eat any animal products (including eggs and dairy). Vegetarians only avoid the actual flesh of an animal, though I would question my friends who claim vegetarian but still eat fish (seems to me tuna is the chicken of the sea so definitely meat...;D ) That's how I always understood it anyway. I do find my vegan friends who still wear leather kind of hysterical, won't eat it, but you will wear it? odd.

Perhaps you should post pics of some of your friends who wear leather (hopefully they aren't guys).

;D

baja
08-23-2011, 12:19 AM
Silly Baja, Vegans don't eat any animal products (including eggs and dairy). Vegetarians only avoid the actual flesh of an animal, though I would question my friends who claim vegetarian but still eat fish (seems to me tuna is the chicken of the sea so definitely meat...;D ) That's how I always understood it anyway. I do find my vegan friends who still wear leather kind of hysterical, won't eat it, but you will wear it? odd.

I know that I just didn't want the facts to spoil my story.


BTW Happy Birthday

broncocalijohn
08-23-2011, 12:32 AM
Never thought I'd see banter about whether whale **** floats on the OMane. Maybe it's time to leave the forums forever.

Well, somebody had to be the Cliff Claven of the Mane. Why not it be Baja. He is full of BS trivia for the most part with sprinklers of truth once in a while.

errand
08-23-2011, 12:47 AM
Well no ****, genius.

No one's hoping we tank.

Wanna bet?

You got clowns in here who were saying that tebow will be the starter by game nine...... I wonder why that is..do they really think we will be 9-0?

No... they think will be out of the playoffs picture by then so yeah they are hoping we tank. Hell one ****er hoped Orton would blow out his knee

Broncobiv
08-23-2011, 12:52 AM
Wanna bet?

You got clowns in here who were saying that tebow will be the starter by game nine...... I wonder why that is..do they really think we will be 9-0?

No... they think will be out of the playoffs picture by then so yeah they are hoping we tank. Hell one ****er hoped Orton would blow out his knee

Posts: 9,999

You'd better make your next post a good one!

OABB
08-23-2011, 12:55 AM
Wanna bet?

You got clowns in here who were saying that tebow will be the starter by game nine...... I wonder why that is..do they really think we will be 9-0?

No... they think will be out of the playoffs picture by then so yeah they are hoping we tank. Hell one ****er hoped Orton would blow out his knee

i want to go 19-0.with orton and then club his knee after the superbowl.

broncocalijohn
08-23-2011, 01:06 AM
Posts: 9,999

You'd better make your next post a good one!

Well, it would be a change from the other 9998 posts.











Congrats on next post.:approve:

bigbucks24
08-23-2011, 01:06 AM
McG. At first I wanted Orton to do well so you would have to eat crow. but I've come to realize that no matter what happens, you will spin it to pro-Tebow. When Orton wins, it will be because the other team was afraid of Tebow and they game planned because for Tebow and Fox didn't use him. Or that they would have won even better if Tebow had been in the game. Or that it was a crappy team and anyone could have beaten them. Or that Orton took a sack and if it had been Tebow, he wold have run around until everyone got tired and sat down and then they could score touchdowns at will. No matter what happens, you will never admit that you were wrong.

MacGruder
08-23-2011, 01:25 AM
That's the beauty of what he has already done - surpassed expectations.

Don't you get it? Tebow is ALREADY better than Orton. AT the same point in time of their careers.

In fact... Tebow is already better than most the NFL Qbs to ever come into the NFL at the stage he is at.

He set records in his first starts. Now.. people can say his style won't allow him to last.. but the only way we will find that out is by letting him play.

The other thing is he does not have a great coach or organization around him. And he is an incredibly tough play for a coach to understand how to use.. this is why the ONUS should really be on them and not Tebow.. you can claim that is an excuse.. but it is the reality. And we have seen other QBs similar to Tebow mismanaged too.. Steve Young, Vick.. there is a history of it.

bigbucks24
08-23-2011, 01:45 AM
How would you rank Tebow among the QBs in the NFL right now?

MacGruder
08-23-2011, 01:54 AM
How would you rank Tebow among the QBs in the NFL right now?

You mean if he was to be made starter this season?

I'm not sure.. I would have to do some research on that. All I can say for sure right now is he would be betetr than Orton and Quinn.. but that isn't saying much.

I have seen a lot of QBs that are considered great that I wonder if Tebow is better than right now.

Guys like Josh freeman, Tony Romo, Mark Sanchez. No doubt they are more polished.. just like Orton and Quinn.. but I think Tebow will win games where they wouldn't.

Also, let's remember.. that I think Tebow will improve dramatically game to game. This is what I think people don't get. When he gets comfortable he will really start to shine. Its like when Tebow played last season.. as he got more into the game his play improved dramatically. I think the same will happen as he moves through the season as well. Orton will get WORSE. Quinn is a bit of a question mark though. He could end up turning his career around. But I am not at all convinced by what i have seen so far. He has made bad plays that are really worse than ones Tebow has made especially when you consider his experience.

bigbucks24
08-23-2011, 02:00 AM
So you think right now, Tebow is better than Freeman, Romo and Sanchez?

MacGruder
08-23-2011, 02:16 AM
So you think right now, Tebow is better than Freeman, Romo and Sanchez?

When he gets his feet went in a season I think he definitely could be. But you have to remember.. the Broncos are not as good as those teams as a whole.

They don't have the coach or talent. But if you put Tebow on those teams I think he could be better - more dominant - by the end of the season.

bigbucks24
08-23-2011, 02:20 AM
So he is better or has the potential to be better?

MacGruder
08-23-2011, 02:31 AM
He has the potential to be better by this season. and in several seasons I don't think it will be close with guys like that because I think he IS a dominant player... he just needs to play.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-23-2011, 02:37 AM
Great move by Fox! Of course, with Orton at QB Denver will never win a SB.
But what's more important for the team, wasting another year with Orton under center and Fox hoping he'll get a few more wins starting him and keep his job a little longer, or play Tebow and/or Quinn and see what they can or cannot do, and move on to the future from there?

Doggcow
08-23-2011, 02:51 AM
Great move by Fox! Of course, with Orton at QB Denver will never win a SB.
But what's more important for the team, wasting another year with Orton under center and Fox hoping he'll get a few more wins starting him and keep his job a little longer, or play Tebow and/or Quinn and see what they can or cannot do, and move on to the future from there?

Chicago probably wins the SB with Orton at QB.

Just sayin.

jhns
08-23-2011, 06:57 AM
Chicago probably wins the SB with Orton at QB.

Just sayin.

LOL

The guy who has zero playoff wins, even when on a better Bears team, would probably win the SB?

Bronco_Beerslug
08-23-2011, 07:38 AM
Chicago probably wins the SB with Orton at QB.

Just sayin.

I don't think he could in Chicago either. Orton throws a pretty pass but he is weak and slow, but his worst trait is that he is HORRIBLE under pressure.
If the wind gets up to 10 mph he could go down in a heap at any time.

elsid13
08-23-2011, 04:00 PM
Perhaps you should post pics of some of your friends who wear leather (hopefully they aren't guys).

;D

What do you have against Spider in buttless chaps???

Dedhed
08-23-2011, 04:01 PM
Posts: 9,999

You'd better make your next post a good one!

It would be his first!

Dedhed
08-23-2011, 04:02 PM
So he is better or has the potential to be better?
Both

Blueflame
08-23-2011, 04:25 PM
Re: post #289...

This is entirely different from what you said before in another thread, MacGruder. You claimed that had he started the 2010 season, Tebow would have won the SB despite the #32 ranked defense. I recall what you posted... because I laughed so hard at it I almost fell off my chair.

Dedhed
08-23-2011, 05:49 PM
Do you know he's only 4 years older than Tebow?

Did you know he only has to increase his points per game by a TD in order to eclipse Tebow's production.

Rock Chalk
08-23-2011, 07:57 PM
Did you know he only has to increase his points per game by a TD in order to eclipse Tebow's production.

Orton is starting.

Tebow sucks.

Hahaha **** you.

BroncosSR
08-23-2011, 08:28 PM
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/08/big_chart.jpg

vancejohnson82
08-23-2011, 08:29 PM
That's the beauty of what he has already done - surpassed expectations.

Don't you get it? Tebow is ALREADY better than Orton. AT the same point in time of their careers.

In fact... Tebow is already better than most the NFL Qbs to ever come into the NFL at the stage he is at.

He set records in his first starts. Now.. people can say his style won't allow him to last.. but the only way we will find that out is by letting him play.

The other thing is he does not have a great coach or organization around him. And he is an incredibly tough play for a coach to understand how to use.. this is why the ONUS should really be on them and not Tebow.. you can claim that is an excuse.. but it is the reality. And we have seen other QBs similar to Tebow mismanaged too.. Steve Young, Vick.. there is a history of it.

what records did he break???? you constantly bring this up and NEVER answer

what records?????

what records????

STEVE YOUNG NEEDS TO KNOW!!!!!

Gort
08-23-2011, 08:48 PM
what records did he break???? you constantly bring this up and NEVER answer

what records?????

what records????

STEVE YOUNG NEEDS TO KNOW!!!!!

you know MacGruder is gone, right?

he was whack-a-mole'd out of here earlier today by the admin.

there was much rejoicing.

DBroncos4life
08-23-2011, 09:06 PM
what records did he break???? you constantly bring this up and NEVER answer

what records?????

what records????

STEVE YOUNG NEEDS TO KNOW!!!!!

some rushing record or something. You know what you look for in a QB.

strafen
08-23-2011, 09:50 PM
you know MacGruder is gone, right?

he was whack-a-mole'd out of here earlier today by the admin.

there was much rejoicing.

As usual, vancejohnson showing once again, he's got no clue about nothing Ha!

Rock Chalk
08-24-2011, 06:35 AM
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/08/big_chart.jpg

HAHAHA

"People already hate me?" -> Yes -> Cowboys

Brilliant.

Teboner
08-24-2011, 08:40 AM
This is just a ploy raise Orton's trade value

vancejohnson82
08-24-2011, 09:08 AM
As usual, vancejohnson showing once again, he's got no clue about nothing Ha!

alright, MacGruder is gone so Strafen will take his place as board moron

step it up you mouth breathing nitwit

OABB
08-24-2011, 09:42 AM
This is just a ploy raise Orton's trade value

it be easier to raise someone from the dead. no one wants an average starter in a trade.

Teboner
08-24-2011, 10:06 AM
it be easier to raise someone from the dead. no one wants an average starter in a trade.

Psst don't spread the truth teams might fall for it. Tebow could probably raise the dead though now that you mention it.

Dagmar
08-24-2011, 10:09 AM
Psst don't spread the truth teams might fall for it. Tebow could probably raise the dead though now that you mention it.

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/2212812_o.gif

OABB
08-24-2011, 10:12 AM
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/2212812_o.gif

lol.

55CrushEm
08-24-2011, 10:25 AM
HAHAHA

"People already hate me?" -> Yes -> Cowboys

Brilliant.

Yeah....and the very next one.....

I occasionally have to be reminded that there's a football team in my city --> No, butI wish other people would go to the game so I could watch it on TV. --> San Diego

LOL