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View Full Version : Have practices and the first 2 preseason games changed your opinion on the starting QB?


montrose
08-22-2011, 06:28 AM
Based on practices and the first two preseason games.

tsiguy96
08-22-2011, 06:30 AM
im of the mindset that we know, for a fact, what orton brings. and i dont think it will ever be more than what we have already seen, but you NEED more from the QB position to be an absolute success in the nfl. if he has time, he is as good as any QB in the NFL, really. problem is the QB isnt always going to get time to throw, sometimes you need to convert on 3rd and medium-long or in the red zone.

Boobs McGee
08-22-2011, 06:34 AM
Voted for option two...BUT, I think its still too early to tell. Here's how it shakes out for me

Hoping for tebow, but have no problem with him riding the pine for another year or two. Love what kyle brings to the offense, but if quinn keeps playing lights out I'll happily root for him as the starter.

jhns
08-22-2011, 06:34 AM
Nope. I still wish we had Cutler.

DrFate
08-22-2011, 06:35 AM
Nope. I still wish we had Cutler.

:~ohyah!:

yerner
08-22-2011, 06:36 AM
they all suck.

WolfpackGuy
08-22-2011, 06:39 AM
Nope. I still wish we had Cutler.

But, but, but, "insert generic farcical justification"

I can't believe the choices have come down to a Orton, Quinn, and Teboz.

CEH
08-22-2011, 06:40 AM
Nope. I still wish we had Cutler.

So does Elway

DENVERDUI55
08-22-2011, 06:40 AM
Another qb thread ugh.

Rabb
08-22-2011, 06:41 AM
I can settle for Orton, would like to have seen what Tebow could have done with a full season, am impressed by Quinn and realize now that I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 are gone this next year and we are banking on some rookie/vet journeyman combo.

Then I get a sad face.

bronco militia
08-22-2011, 07:02 AM
Yes – I wanted Tebow but now I’m happy Orton still has the job

this^...... but I'm not happy about it

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-22-2011, 07:06 AM
Orton is the safest choice with his low rate of bad decision-making. It's ok.

bendog
08-22-2011, 07:14 AM
I thought all along that orton would win the job, but I haven't given up on Tebow. My hope was taht Tebow would have hired a qb coach and worked on mechanics, and the staff thought playing the kid would be possible, so they'd just trade Orton for a third or whatever they could get. Then they could have spun it to the fans that they were gonna see what he could do. If he was terrible, they'd be in the luck sweepstakes. Even if Tebow stunk it would have been entertaining. I remember Bobby Douglas running for over 900 yards for da Bears in a 14 game schedule. They went 4-9-1, but it was entertaining.

rbackfactory80
08-22-2011, 07:32 AM
People are more concerned with winning 6-7 games than taking a chance. This team has sucked for a decade with a minor bright spot here or there. No roll of the dice equals us in the same position we are in now at the start of next year. Then we can draft a QB and maybe be respectable in 2015.

Great time to be a Bronco Fan

ColoradoDarin
08-22-2011, 07:53 AM
I've seen both Orton and Tebow start in actual games that matter. Give me Tebow.

And I don't believe the nonsense of the locker room wanting Orton, I saw the whole team lifted when TT was starting last year, even when we had nothing to play for.

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 07:56 AM
Tim has continued to excel in games with the worst support (relatively)

bendog
08-22-2011, 07:56 AM
Of course players have no idea who is the better player.

CEH
08-22-2011, 08:00 AM
Last year Kolb was the starting QB (QBOTF) in Philly and now he's in ARI. I guess I'll never assume anything at this point and just let the season play out.

bendog
08-22-2011, 08:04 AM
Last year Kolb was the starting QB (QBOTF) in Philly and now he's in ARI. I guess I'll never assume anything at this point and just let the season play out.

If Orton's starting week ten, I'll be amazed.

FADERPROOF
08-22-2011, 08:41 AM
Win with Quinn!!!

cmhargrove
08-22-2011, 08:43 AM
If it takes another year to develop Tebow - so be it. Just allow him to play (in special packages) and continue to develop all season. Don't trade him, get him ready to start next season.

If the lack of an offseason cost him a year of development, that's ok as long as we are still committed to him long term.

bronco militia
08-22-2011, 08:52 AM
http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tebowvsortoncaptioncontest-copy.gif

go_broncos
08-22-2011, 08:57 AM
Don't be fooled by Orton and Quinn's play in preseason.
They fold under pressure.

DarkHorse30
08-22-2011, 08:58 AM
I've seen both Orton and Tebow start in actual games that matter. Give me Tebow.

And I don't believe the nonsense of the locker room wanting Orton, I saw the whole team lifted when TT was starting last year, even when we had nothing to play for.


This.

cmhargrove
08-22-2011, 08:59 AM
Win with Quinn!!!

I don't understand the Quinn love at this point. He has certainly improved, but almost every single throw was late, and contested, by Buffalo.

I hope, hope, hope that the only reason he started over Tebow was "showcasing" for a trade. Orton is a mile ahead of Quinn, and to watch Quinn would be painful. I would rather go through some errant throws from Tebow, coupled with flashes of greatness, than watch a mediocre (at best) performance from Quinn.

Garcia Bronco
08-22-2011, 08:59 AM
If it takes another year to develop Tebow - so be it. Just allow him to play (in special packages) and continue to develop all season. Don't trade him, get him ready to start next season.

If the lack of an offseason cost him a year of development, that's ok as long as we are still committed to him long term.

By looking at him play I would say it's another two seasons before he could even be considered ready.

2KBack
08-22-2011, 09:00 AM
I don't understand the Quinn love at this point. He has certainly improved, but almost every single throw was late, and contested, by Buffalo.

I hope, hope, hope that the only reason he started over Tebow was "showcasing" for a trade. Orton is a mile ahead of Quinn, and to watch Quinn would be painful. I would rather go through some errant throws from Tebow, couple with flashes of greatness, than watch a mediocre (at best) performance from Quinn.

yeah, but Quinn has big muscles like Tebow

TailgateNut
08-22-2011, 09:04 AM
I don't understand the Quinn love at this point. He has certainly improved, but almost every single throw was late, and contested, by Buffalo.

I hope, hope, hope that the only reason he started over Tebow was "showcasing" for a trade. Orton is a mile ahead of Quinn, and to watch Quinn would be painful. I would rather go through some errant throws from Tebow, couple with flashes of greatness, than watch a mediocre (at best) performance from Quinn.


Did you watch the game?

Pony Boy
08-22-2011, 09:04 AM
Yep, I'm pretty fired up bring on Brady, Manning and Rivers we have Orton......... kind of like taking a pea shooter to a gunfight.

cmhargrove
08-22-2011, 09:44 AM
Did you watch the game?

I watched the game, and i'll stand by that analysis. His one A+ throw was the TD pass, it was a perfect play. The rest of his throws lacked the anticipation displayed by Orton. Most were jammed in late, several were tipped by Bills defenders.

Quinn has greatly improved, but his decisions are still slow for a 5th year QB.

bronco militia
08-22-2011, 09:47 AM
I watched the game, and i'll stand by that analysis. His one A+ throw was the TD pass, it was a perfect play. The rest of his throws lacked the anticipation displayed by Orton. Most were jammed in late, several were tipped by Bills defenders.

Quinn has greatly improved, but his decisions are still slow for a 5th year QB.

THIS^

strafen
08-22-2011, 09:51 AM
Kyle "freakin'" Orton.
That's ****in' hilarious!
How low have our standards for a qb have gone! Hilarious!

Another hilarious quote:
"No I wanted Orton and Im glad hes the starter as he gives Denver the best chance to win" ROFL! LOL

Kaylore
08-22-2011, 09:52 AM
I don't want to play Tebow until he's ready or at least is good enough where his production would be comparable to Orton's. Right now it is not and right now based on the play and mechanics of the first two preseason games, Quinn deserves to be 2 and Tebow 3. I don't favor one QB over the other so I am ok with this. Some are emotionally invested in Tebow and so are angry he hasn't received more time even though in practice and in games he hasn't been as sharp as Quinn and Orton. A good way to lose a locker room is to be unfair and Fox knows what he's doing.

I still don't get why people can't wait one more season for Tebow to develop. Why he has to start right now or they will be angry is beyond me. We're going to suck this year anyway. Just enjoy the ride.

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 09:55 AM
I don't want to play Tebow until he's ready or at least is good enough where his production would be comparable to Orton's.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010102411/2010/REG7/raiders@broncos

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010112200/2010/REG11/broncos@chargers

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121912/2010/REG15/broncos@raiders

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos

Besides, in one of his TWO passes, he showed he can execute a screen pass.

Clearly these days that qualifies you to start in Denver.

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 09:55 AM
We're going to suck this year anyway. Just enjoy the ride.

And I'm sorry... what the hell does that even mean?

DrFate
08-22-2011, 09:56 AM
I still don't get why people can't wait one more season for Tebow to develop. Why he has to start right now or they will be angry is beyond me. We're going to suck this year anyway. Just enjoy the ride.

My money is on Tebow getting cut and Denver looking QB in round 1 in 2012.

TailgateNut
08-22-2011, 10:08 AM
My money is on Tebow getting cut and Denver NOT looking QB in round 1 in 2012.

This

bronco militia
08-22-2011, 10:11 AM
I don't want to play Tebow until he's ready or at least is good enough where his production would be comparable to Orton's. Right now it is not and right now based on the play and mechanics of the first two preseason games, Quinn deserves to be 2 and Tebow 3. I don't favor one QB over the other so I am ok with this. Some are emotionally invested in Tebow and so are angry he hasn't received more time even though in practice and in games he hasn't been as sharp as Quinn and Orton. A good way to lose a locker room is to be unfair and Fox knows what he's doing.

I still don't get why people can't wait one more season for Tebow to develop. Why he has to start right now or they will be angry is beyond me. We're going to suck this year anyway. Just enjoy the ride.

this^

Fedaykin
08-22-2011, 10:13 AM
What about an option:

"Would have been interesting to see Tebow, but only if he fits the direction Fox wants to take the team."

Kaylore
08-22-2011, 10:13 AM
And I'm sorry... what the hell does that even mean?

It means it doesn't matter much to the Broncos' grand scheme if Tebow sits another year and Orton has the reigns while we rebuild. We aren't going to the Super Bowl so the hand-wringing over Tebow being "better" (all evidence to the contrary) and therefore the Broncos suffering while they "waste another year on Orton" is crap. Tebow isn't ready. He doesn't throw to the left side of the field for some reason unless its a Texas route or a screen and he tucks and bails too often. His mechanics are inconsistent and his accuracy suffers because of it. He can't execute the entire offense. Yes, Orton is mediocre but at least he knows the plays and can make calls at the line. Tebow's head is obviously still spinning. Whining he isn't starting is ridiculous. We knew he was a project and he needs more time. Especially after losing a year to the lockout.

TailgateNut
08-22-2011, 10:14 AM
I don't want to play Tebow until he's ready or at least is good enough where his production would be comparable to Orton's. Right now it is not and right now based on the play and mechanics of the first two preseason games, Quinn deserves to be 2 and Tebow 3. I don't favor one QB over the other so I am ok with this. Some are emotionally invested in Tebow and so are angry he hasn't received more time even though in practice and in games he hasn't been as sharp as Quinn and Orton. A good way to lose a locker room is to be unfair and Fox knows what he's doing.

I still don't get why people can't wait one more season for Tebow to develop. Why he has to start right now or they will be angry is beyond me. We're going to suck this year anyway. Just enjoy the ride.


They're all angry walking around wearing the jersey of a marginal practice squad QB who might get cut if he doesn't learn the system and what it takes to lead an NFL team.

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 10:17 AM
It means it doesn't matter much to the Broncos' grand scheme if Tebow sits another year and Orton has the reigns while we rebuild. We aren't going to the Super Bowl so the hand-wringing over Tebow being "better" (all evidence to the contrary) and therefore the Broncos suffering while they "waste another year on Orton" is crap. Tebow isn't ready. He doesn't throw to the left side of the field for some reason unless its a Texas route or a screen and he tucks and bails too often. His mechanics are inconsistent and his accuracy suffers because of it. He can't execute the entire offense. Yes, Orton is mediocre but at least he knows the plays and can make calls at the line. Tebow's head is obviously still spinning. Whining he isn't starting is ridiculous. We knew he was a project and he needs more time. Especially after losing a year to the lockout.

...isn't this all supporting the idea that it's better to see what we have in him so we can be prepared moving forward next year?

Since we're going to "suck anyways"?

And lastly, how can you "enjoy the ride" of sucking and watching screen pass after screen pass? Wouldn't "enjoying the ride" also be going with the exciting player and the optimism of the unknown and his potential?

This makes ZERO effing sense to me.

DrFate
08-22-2011, 10:22 AM
It means it doesn't matter much to the Broncos' grand scheme if Tebow sits another year and Orton has the reigns while we rebuild.

I always appreciate Kaylore's insight but this is completely backwards. If this is an acknowledged rebuild, it makes much more sense to play a younger player simply to evaluate him in game situations (if Tebow is awful, what difference does it make?) You expect to lose anyway.

It's not going to happen, of course. I doubt Tebow is even on the roster when the season starts.

Br0nc0Buster
08-22-2011, 10:23 AM
Slightly
I wanted Tebow to start the season and was assuming he would
I would not have a problem if Tebow started right now, I think he can make things happen

With that said, I think Kyle Orton right now is the better player and would be more consistent this year

Tebow is still too raw, I think he needs some time to polish some things up

maher_tyler
08-22-2011, 10:26 AM
I wanted Tebow. After watching Orton play above average the first 2 games i understand that he is the best option at QB. I wouldn't say i'm happy about that, a little disappointed is more like it. Unless Orton can raise his level of play another notch, such as, converting in the redzone and in crunch time.

montrose
08-22-2011, 10:26 AM
I don't want to play Tebow until he's ready or at least is good enough where his production would be comparable to Orton's. Right now it is not and right now based on the play and mechanics of the first two preseason games, Quinn deserves to be 2 and Tebow 3. I don't favor one QB over the other so I am ok with this. Some are emotionally invested in Tebow and so are angry he hasn't received more time even though in practice and in games he hasn't been as sharp as Quinn and Orton. A good way to lose a locker room is to be unfair and Fox knows what he's doing.

I still don't get why people can't wait one more season for Tebow to develop. Why he has to start right now or they will be angry is beyond me. We're going to suck this year anyway. Just enjoy the ride.

I'm with Rev Kahn, if we're going to suck all the more reason to play Tebow and give him experience. I just think a guy like Tebow gets so much better on the field playing rather than running the scout team all year. He'll learn from sitting in meetings but I'm not so sure this staff is going to be spending a lot of individual time with him to get his mechanics right. IMO, he is the opposite of Aaron Rodgers - the longer he sits, the worse he gets. Just look at how much worse he looks at camp now compared to the end of last season. Just my opinion.

DrFate
08-22-2011, 10:28 AM
Hoge yelling at Schefter again on ESPN (replay from the last interview)

Jay3
08-22-2011, 10:41 AM
I went with option 1 (Tebow), though the wording doesn't really reflect my rationale.

I was never about starting Tebow because I thought he would look better under these circumstances. I don't think Cam Newton or Jake Locker would look better than Kyle right now, but I would be wanting to work them in the starting line up. It's about Tebow being ready for that next stage in his development.

I understand some people think Orton could be the long-term answer as a franchise quarterback. That's not me.

But I just know that Tebow is figuring things out. He's tentative, he's getting his feet under him (literally).

But if he ever gets a long term, sustained chance to play every week (like even Orton got his rookie year, Colt McCoy got last year, or even Jamarcus got), I just know there would come a day soon when "the leg braces would break off."

"Leg braces would break off" is a metaphor explained by that moment you may remember in Forrest Gump, depicted below:

http://i.imgur.com/y44RD.png

Jay3
08-22-2011, 10:46 AM
I still don't get why people can't wait one more season for Tebow to develop. Why he has to start right now or they will be angry is beyond me. We're going to suck this year anyway. Just enjoy the ride.

I think the sense of urgency is the expiration of Orton's contract, combined with the idea that Orton may be signed long term or the Broncos may draft a quarterback.

I would be fine if I was sure they just wanted to develop him another year, cut Orton loose, and give him his shot next year.

But all of these mixed signals and false reports (and Quinn in the mix complicating things) make it seem like a window is closing. And it's happened before -- not every quarterback gets a good shot or a perfect situation for him to succeed. There are some very good quarterbacks out there that didn't really have a good situation when they were drafted.

I've never seen a first round pick not get a shot. But I've never seen a coach fired mid-season after picking a quarterback in the first round.

colonelbeef
08-22-2011, 10:47 AM
Nope. I still wish we had Cutler.

So does Elway

vbplaya
08-22-2011, 10:50 AM
You know ... I gotta say ... our patience in Denver for the QB position is getting lower and lower. Every few years we chase out a QB for some other talent because we feel that is the next "quick fix" ... then we grow tired of that QB and chase him out of town for another "quick fix". In the mean time we are changing out coaches ... changing out coordinators and still fixating on "well maybe this new kid can save us".

We start Griese for 4 years then chase him out of town for Plummer ... he plays 4 years ... then we chase him out for Cutler ... he plays 2 full years and we chase him out for Orton ... he plays 1.5 years and we are already calling for his replacement.

When are we going to address the issues such as offensive line so that we can give our QB some time? Our offensive line can't give the QB time to throw and we can't run ... how easy is it for the defense to sit back and dare you to throw knowing that they can pressure the QB sending only 3-4 while still being able to stop the run? When are we going to put together a defense that can keep us from playing from behind and becoming one-dimensional on offense? (that being said ... I'm interested to see how our D is this year since we have the ability to put some pressure on the QB and a strong CB core ... AND we finally have a defensive minded head coach!)

Someone posted earlier that we need to roll the dice for once otherwise we'll always be struggling ... personally, I feel we roll the dice too much.

The Joker
08-22-2011, 11:05 AM
I think this week's OM podcast has a pretty obvious topic to deal with.

Kaylore and Montrose in disagreement, would like to hear them talk it over.

Wonder what side of the argument Socal will come down on? Ha!

I do agree with Kaylore's sentiment in general though, I don't see why it has to be this year or never for Tebow. Sure we may not be a playoff team this year, but if you're John Fox you can't just waltz in there and tell everyone that you're going with Tebow even though he's been the 3rd best QB in camp. You're basically telling the team that they're going to suck, not the attitude you want to instill in your first year.

Also worth remembering that Quinn himself is a young first round pick who people thought might be a quality NFL QB one day. This regime has the same amount invested in Tebow that they have in Quinn, which is not much. If Orton goes next season then I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us sign Quinn again and let him compete with Tebow to start in 2012, I can see why they would feel like they should give him a fair shot.

Sir_Robin
08-22-2011, 11:10 AM
I wish I could understand how mechanics and footwork manages to mean so much when the overall difference in measurable performance is virtually non-existent. Orton & Tebow are the same statistically. Tebow at least brings an element of surprise to the table.

bendog
08-22-2011, 11:29 AM
I wish I could understand how mechanics and footwork manages to mean so much when the overall difference in measurable performance is virtually non-existent. Orton & Tebow are the same statistically. Tebow at least brings an element of surprise to the table.

It's because if they try and run the same offense they ran with Tebow in the three games, teams would take away his one read by giving the corner's safety help inside while givng less attention to the middle of the field, and play tebow to scramble.

Jay3
08-22-2011, 11:32 AM
It's because if they try and run the same offense they ran with Tebow in the three games, teams would take away his one read by giving the corner's safety help inside while givng less attention to the middle of the field, and play tebow to scramble.

Genius idea: Same play, but tell Tebow the primary is the TE on a seam route in the middle of the field.

Genius! :yayaya:

bendog
08-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Genius idea: Same play, but tell Tebow the primary is the TE on a seam route in the middle of the field.

Genius! :yayaya:

The problem is Tebow apparantly has difficulty telling a cover three from a cover two.

Sir_Robin
08-22-2011, 11:49 AM
It's because if they try and run the same offense they ran with Tebow in the three games, teams would take away his one read by giving the corner's safety help inside while givng less attention to the middle of the field, and play tebow to scramble.

I cannot deny the truth of any of that. All I can say is that in three games of this happening it didn't change the outcome of the stats - they are statistically the same player. One of them is just more fun to watch and can make things happen when a sack is imminent. Orton gave up an average of 18 yards a game to sacks last year to Tebow's 3.

Kaylore
08-22-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm with Rev Kahn, if we're going to suck all the more reason to play Tebow and give him experience. I just think a guy like Tebow gets so much better on the field playing rather than running the scout team all year. He'll learn from sitting in meetings but I'm not so sure this staff is going to be spending a lot of individual time with him to get his mechanics right. IMO, he is the opposite of Aaron Rodgers - the longer he sits, the worse he gets. Just look at how much worse he looks at camp now compared to the end of last season. Just my opinion.

He didn't practice or train, though! Brady Quinn went and picked the Mannings' QB coach over the summer and Tebow signed books. What did anyone expect? the lockout kept him away from any functional coaching particular to this scheme. Tebow isn't the one person in the world who gets worse with practice and we aren't risking his career by not letting him play right now. That is ridiculous.

And When did Tebow, captain practice hard, work-ethic wonder boy, become the biggest football mangina in the universe? Why are we coddling this kid, giving him preferential treatment, wringing our hands about ruining him for making him sit a year we'll destroy his confidence forever? Every other player is required to earn their position the old fashioned way: Practice and make plays on game day and every one of those players is being rewarded.

So you have a team with not a lot of support that is trying to re-gain an identity and now you're saying is the time for them to put Tebow in? Sorry but absolutely not. THAT is how you ruin QB's. Especially ones as raw and inconsistent as Tebow. Let Orton go out there and be his usual boring, safe self while the defense and running game finds its way. Tebow can take reps with the scout team and end up practicing more than Quinn and come in during games in their special redzone packages they are installing. It will be like his freaking freshmen year at Florida all over again with Orton playing an albino Chris Leak. Then if he blows we extend Orton and/or draft a QB and if not, we tag and trade Orton.

Regardless, now is not the time and Tebow is a big boy and can handle not getting what he wants for one more season.

Jeez.

DBroncos4life
08-22-2011, 12:42 PM
He didn't practice or train, though! Brady Quinn went and picked the Mannings' QB coach over the summer and Tebow signed books. What did anyone expect? the lockout kept him away from any functional coaching particular to this scheme. Tebow isn't the one person in the world who gets worse with practice and we aren't risking his career by not letting him play right now. That is ridiculous.

And When did Tebow, captain practice hard, work-ethic wonder boy, become the biggest football mangina in the universe? Why are we coddling this kid, giving him preferential treatment, wringing our hands about ruining him for making him sit a year we'll destroy his confidence forever? Every other player is required to earn their position the old fashioned way: Practice and make plays on game day and every one of those players is being rewarded.

So you have a team with not a lot of support that is trying to re-gain an identity and now you're saying is the time for them to put Tebow in? Sorry but absolutely not. THAT is how you ruin QB's. Especially ones as raw and inconsistent as Tebow. Let Orton go out there and be his usual boring, safe self while the defense and running game finds its way. Tebow can take reps with the scout team and end up practicing more than Quinn and come in during games in their special redzone packages they are installing. It will be like his freaking freshmen year at Florida all over again with Orton playing an albino Chris Leak. Then if he blows we extend Orton and/or draft a QB and if not, we tag and trade Orton.

Regardless, now is not the time and Tebow is a big boy and can handle not getting what he wants for one more season.

Jeez.

Colt McCoy went out and worked with Favre and so far it looks like it helped out a lot. There was things Tebow could have done instead of going on that book signing tour. I really believe this lockout hurt Tebow more then any other player in the NFL.

GoBroncos84
08-22-2011, 12:47 PM
My opinion hasn't really changed. I still think you have to base your decision on what you think this team is capable of doing this year. As of right now, Kyle Orton is by far the best QB on the roster. However, Tebow and Quinn both have more potential upside than Orton. Of the two, I think Tebow could someday be "great", and he is the only one of those three QBs who is under contract for next season. So if you think this team has a shot at making the playoffs this season, you start Kyle Orton. If you don't think they can quite contend for a playoff spot yet, then I think its wise to play Tebow. Let him learn and take his knocks for now so that he will be that much better next season. The only way Tim or Brady reach their full potential is if they play. Quinn took huge strides in the offseason and there is a good chance he goes somewhere else next offseason and resurrects his career.

So naming Orton the starter tells me that this front office and coaching staff thinks our team could contend for a playoff spot this season. I want this team to win and will accept any choices the team makes that result in getting back to being one of the top teams in the league. If Orton starts and we still lose, I cannot imagine he keeps the starting job all season. If that happens, Tim probably gets his shot.

orange 4 life
08-22-2011, 01:04 PM
Of course not.

Orton is clearly the best qb on the team and what he did last year should have EVERY Bronco fan excited about what he could do this year with better play calling and an improved line and running attack.

Anyone wanting Tebow to start is living in fantasy land or doesn't even possess a BASIC understanding of the game.

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 01:20 PM
Of course not.

Orton is clearly the best qb on the team and what he did last year should have EVERY Bronco fan excited about what he could do this year with better play calling and an improved line and running attack.

Anyone wanting Tebow to start is living in fantasy land or doesn't even possess a BASIC understanding of the game.

You're a goddamn idiot.

jhns
08-22-2011, 01:44 PM
Of course not.

Orton is clearly the best qb on the team and what he did last year should have EVERY Bronco fan excited about what he could do this year with better play calling and an improved line and running attack.

Anyone wanting Tebow to start is living in fantasy land or doesn't even possess a BASIC understanding of the game.

LOL

What did Orton do last year? Get outplayed by a rookie that people are still claiming can't play the position? Go 3-10? Led a below average offense? Yeah, I just don't get how people aren't seeing the greatness...

Rock Chalk
08-22-2011, 01:58 PM
You're a goddamn idiot.

Im willing to give Orton a chance to play on a team that has an apparently improved defense, running game and offensive line.

Without all of that, Tebow probably does bring more to the table. BUt with a decent team around him, I do believe Orton will do more than Tebow could. Tebow's ONLY advantage over Orton at this point is making something out of a broken play - of which last year we had a lot of because the team sucked monkey nuts. If the play isn't broken though, Orton is a better QUARTERBACK than Tebow is.

And this is dependant all upon the team around Orton. The question isn't so much about the QB position but what you people think of the team and has it improved from last year?

Coaching? Improved
Defense? Seemingly improved
Offensive line? IMproved
Run game? Seemingly improved

With the above, Orton can do some good things this year, I believe that and you all better start believing it because guess what homey, he's ****ing starting for us and Tebow isn't.

yerner
08-22-2011, 02:01 PM
You're a goddamn idiot.

Lighten up, man. That's not really called for. He didn't insult you personally in any way.

bronco militia
08-22-2011, 02:02 PM
I'm not excited for this season...but I'll still watch

Hulamau
08-22-2011, 02:02 PM
He didn't practice or train, though! Brady Quinn went and picked the Mannings' QB coach over the summer and Tebow signed books. What did anyone expect? the lockout kept him away from any functional coaching particular to this scheme. Tebow isn't the one person in the world who gets worse with practice and we aren't risking his career by not letting him play right now. That is ridiculous.

And When did Tebow, captain practice hard, work-ethic wonder boy, become the biggest football mangina in the universe? Why are we coddling this kid, giving him preferential treatment, wringing our hands about ruining him for making him sit a year we'll destroy his confidence forever? Every other player is required to earn their position the old fashioned way: Practice and make plays on game day and every one of those players is being rewarded.

So you have a team with not a lot of support that is trying to re-gain an identity and now you're saying is the time for them to put Tebow in? Sorry but absolutely not. THAT is how you ruin QB's. Especially ones as raw and inconsistent as Tebow. Let Orton go out there and be his usual boring, safe self while the defense and running game finds its way. Tebow can take reps with the scout team and end up practicing more than Quinn and come in during games in their special redzone packages they are installing. It will be like his freaking freshmen year at Florida all over again with Orton playing an albino Chris Leak. Then if he blows we extend Orton and/or draft a QB and if not, we tag and trade Orton.

Regardless, now is not the time and Tebow is a big boy and can handle not getting what he wants for one more season.

Jeez.

100% agree Kaylore!!

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 02:03 PM
Im willing to give Orton a chance to play on a team that has an apparently improved defense, running game and offensive line.

Without all of that, Tebow probably does bring more to the table. BUt with a decent team around him, I do believe Orton will do more than Tebow could. Tebow's ONLY advantage over Orton at this point is making something out of a broken play - of which last year we had a lot of because the team sucked monkey nuts. If the play isn't broken though, Orton is a better QUARTERBACK than Tebow is.

And this is dependant all upon the team around Orton. The question isn't so much about the QB position but what you people think of the team and has it improved from last year?

Coaching? Improved
Defense? Seemingly improved
Offensive line? IMproved
Run game? Seemingly improved

With the above, Orton can do some good things this year, I believe that and you all better start believing it because guess what homey, he's ****ing starting for us and Tebow isn't.

Define "good things"?

I don't necessarily disagree with your post, but I think you're leaving out details. Orton is a better PURE quarterback but not by much.

He also lacks the athleticism, intangibles and upside of Tebow.

At what cost? So we can bury the franchise deeper in the whole before we attempt to find out what we have in Tim on the field before chasing Luck?

Orton can't win ****.

You give him a Brandon Marshall reception that breaks 10 tackles.
You give him a miraculous tipped ball to Stokely who runs it 86 yards.
You give him multiple Royal kick return TDs.
You give him a top half defense.

And what do you get out ridiculous luck like that?

8-8

Awesome.

TailgateNut
08-22-2011, 02:09 PM
Looking at the poll, Orton has the backing of the majority. Some people still put the team before the player.

Bravo.

Sit Tebow, SIT!

Hulamau
08-22-2011, 02:19 PM
Im willing to give Orton a chance to play on a team that has an apparently improved defense, running game and offensive line.

Without all of that, Tebow probably does bring more to the table. BUt with a decent team around him, I do believe Orton will do more than Tebow could. Tebow's ONLY advantage over Orton at this point is making something out of a broken play - of which last year we had a lot of because the team sucked monkey nuts. If the play isn't broken though, Orton is a better QUARTERBACK than Tebow is.

And this is dependant all upon the team around Orton. The question isn't so much about the QB position but what you people think of the team and has it improved from last year?

Coaching? Improved
Defense? Seemingly improved
Offensive line? IMproved
Run game? Seemingly improved

With the above, Orton can do some good things this year, I believe that and you all better start believing it because guess what homey, he's ****ing starting for us and Tebow isn't.

Thanks for reinforcing the obvious in a succinct manner Alec... even the most die-hard Tebownites will have a hard time arguing with the reality of the situation.

We all wish Tebow well and hope he can DESERVE and EARN the starting spot by clearly beating out whoever he has to go against at some point, but that a'int now ..and may never be!

I was a little peeved by that whole autobiography thing when he hasnt done squat at a professional level yet. The whole thing smacked of opportunism and he and his handlers no doubt clearly looked at it as a business decision to rush out his 'life story' while the hype was at full tilt before this season started and he would have to start really earning the merit.

I like the kid, but having to eat a little humble pie might be the best thing for him too. Give him a chance to learn that all doors dont automatically open for him just because he's an earnest kid with an all-world PR hype machine behind him. The timing of that book was his first big misstep, at least as far as credibility goes. For purely dollars and cents it was a wise move, as I doubt they would be flying off the shealves next year like they did this summer if he winds up warming the bench most of this year as seems likely.

Hopefully he will rise to the challenge .. cancel 90% of his considerable off season extra-curricular promotional activites and really BUCKLE DOWN and learn the footwork required to drop back and become a more consistently accurate QB. A few more hours each week with a real QB coach and a few less throwing weights around and hammering tires might better help with a smoother quicker and more accurate delivery as well. Especially on the short passes and fades.

We are for you Tim but you gotta earn it from here on!

ghwk
08-22-2011, 02:21 PM
He didn't practice or train, though! Brady Quinn went and picked the Mannings' QB coach over the summer and Tebow signed books. What did anyone expect? the lockout kept him away from any functional coaching particular to this scheme. Tebow isn't the one person in the world who gets worse with practice and we aren't risking his career by not letting him play right now. That is ridiculous.

And When did Tebow, captain practice hard, work-ethic wonder boy, become the biggest football mangina in the universe? Why are we coddling this kid, giving him preferential treatment, wringing our hands about ruining him for making him sit a year we'll destroy his confidence forever? Every other player is required to earn their position the old fashioned way: Practice and make plays on game day and every one of those players is being rewarded.

So you have a team with not a lot of support that is trying to re-gain an identity and now you're saying is the time for them to put Tebow in? Sorry but absolutely not. THAT is how you ruin QB's. Especially ones as raw and inconsistent as Tebow. Let Orton go out there and be his usual boring, safe self while the defense and running game finds its way. Tebow can take reps with the scout team and end up practicing more than Quinn and come in during games in their special redzone packages they are installing. It will be like his freaking freshmen year at Florida all over again with Orton playing an albino Chris Leak. Then if he blows we extend Orton and/or draft a QB and if not, we tag and trade Orton.

Regardless, now is not the time and Tebow is a big boy and can handle not getting what he wants for one more season.

Jeez.

I'm with Kaylore on this one. I'm thinking also the team knows who the best QB is at the moment. Fox has to earn these guy's respect as well and not giving the best QB right now his shot I think would cause them to lose any respect they might have in Fox et.al. I mean if you are going to bench the guy that deserves the job and clearly has the respect of the team then when is "my ass" gonna get benched for some rookie who hasn't earned it yet?

There is more at stake here than just giving Tebow a shot to develop if we are kissing off the season. It's a smarter move to let Orton play himself out of a job if that is what happens; then you end all controversy and doubt as to whether or not Orton should not be starting, and players can trust that you have to earn your position and play well to keep it. Fox also doesn't lose the locker room this way. Of course then if Tebow goes in and is what he is, basically a rookie QB, then the Quinn chants will start.

Players want to be on a winning team first and develop a QB 2nd. I guarantee Champ wants the best QB in there, not who the best QB MIGHT be in another year, and even that is unknown. It may be Quinn. From a spectator POV Tebow will be more exciting to watch unless he becomes a train wreck; from the player POV this isn't a grand experiment, it's something they take pride in and want to excel at. Winning is huge and until you can't win with your best option don't experiment just to make it exciting for the fans.

One last thought, to hang all of last year on Orton is ridiculous there were so many things wrong with this team. Yes all Orton's limitations were highlighted but it's a different team this year and part of coaching is giving the QB a chance to not have his limitations exposed on every play. Orton may fare far better with the current personnel and coaches than he did last year. For the sake of the team I hope so.

We'll know soon enough.

orange 4 life
08-22-2011, 02:22 PM
You know ... I gotta say ... our patience in Denver for the QB position is getting lower and lower. Every few years we chase out a QB for some other talent because we feel that is the next "quick fix" ... then we grow tired of that QB and chase him out of town for another "quick fix". In the mean time we are changing out coaches ... changing out coordinators and still fixating on "well maybe this new kid can save us".

We start Griese for 4 years then chase him out of town for Plummer ... he plays 4 years ... then we chase him out for Cutler ... he plays 2 full years and we chase him out for Orton ... he plays 1.5 years and we are already calling for his replacement.

When are we going to address the issues such as offensive line so that we can give our QB some time? Our offensive line can't give the QB time to throw and we can't run ... how easy is it for the defense to sit back and dare you to throw knowing that they can pressure the QB sending only 3-4 while still being able to stop the run? When are we going to put together a defense that can keep us from playing from behind and becoming one-dimensional on offense? (that being said ... I'm interested to see how our D is this year since we have the ability to put some pressure on the QB and a strong CB core ... AND we finally have a defensive minded head coach!)

Someone posted earlier that we need to roll the dice for once otherwise we'll always be struggling ... personally, I feel we roll the dice too much.

Extremely well said and precisely what I've been shouting from the rooftops.
What's worse is the same people screaming for Tebow as the savior will turn on him after a couple years (at most) and calling for whoever seems to be the next easy solution.

If Tebow is ever our starter for an extended period (doubtful) and plays anywhere near the level Orton has then I'll be solidly behind him too.

.....And doing this all over again. Enough is enough. When will Bronco fans realize the real issues with this team and support the QB actually on the field?

Br0nc0Buster
08-22-2011, 03:03 PM
You give him a top half defense.

And what do you get out ridiculous luck like that?

8-8

Awesome.

Actually Kyle Orton and the Broncos were 8-1 in 09 when the defense gave up 23 points or less
and the defenses in the middle were giving up around 20.5 ppg

and in that loss Kyle still had a qbr over 92

razorwire77
08-22-2011, 03:07 PM
It's because if they try and run the same offense they ran with Tebow in the three games, teams would take away his one read by giving the corner's safety help inside while givng less attention to the middle of the field, and play tebow to scramble.

In addition, he has control issues in the short passing game. Teams will take away his reads down the field, and he will struggle to hit his outlets in the flat. The play where he almost got Anderson decapitated comes to mind.

montrose
08-22-2011, 06:59 PM
He didn't practice or train, though! Brady Quinn went and picked the Mannings' QB coach over the summer and Tebow signed books. What did anyone expect? the lockout kept him away from any functional coaching particular to this scheme. Tebow isn't the one person in the world who gets worse with practice and we aren't risking his career by not letting him play right now. That is ridiculous.

And When did Tebow, captain practice hard, work-ethic wonder boy, become the biggest football mangina in the universe? Why are we coddling this kid, giving him preferential treatment, wringing our hands about ruining him for making him sit a year we'll destroy his confidence forever? Every other player is required to earn their position the old fashioned way: Practice and make plays on game day and every one of those players is being rewarded.

So you have a team with not a lot of support that is trying to re-gain an identity and now you're saying is the time for them to put Tebow in? Sorry but absolutely not. THAT is how you ruin QB's. Especially ones as raw and inconsistent as Tebow. Let Orton go out there and be his usual boring, safe self while the defense and running game finds its way. Tebow can take reps with the scout team and end up practicing more than Quinn and come in during games in their special redzone packages they are installing. It will be like his freaking freshmen year at Florida all over again with Orton playing an albino Chris Leak. Then if he blows we extend Orton and/or draft a QB and if not, we tag and trade Orton.

Regardless, now is not the time and Tebow is a big boy and can handle not getting what he wants for one more season.

Jeez.

I agree with most everything you said especially the stuff about him needing to earn his spot. I think where we disagree is based on the bit I've seen Tebow this preseason where I believe his major issue is overthinking things - especially at practice. He's trying too hard to be something he's not, it's almost like he's had it drilled in that he needs to stay in the pocket, go through his reads and through a mechanicaly perfect pass from the pocket. The result is he looks like the game is going about 3x too fast for him whereas last year he was thrown out on the field and just played his game. It was rough in stretches for sure, but he made things happen too. Right now, again in a practice setting, he just looks like a muscular guy trying to play like Kyle Orton - ineffectively.

Now there's one major point I have to clarify - I am NOT saying Tebow needs to put in or that Tebow is the answer for the Broncos now or ever. I'm just thinking of Tebow specifically, as if I were his agent, that he needs to be on the field to get better - not getting limited PT at the end of a preseason game handing off. There were even reports last year the Broncos were really suprised at how he played in the preseason because he didnt look too good in practices.

I've always been taught and of the opinion that the more a football player thinks, the worse he'll play. The Manning's and Brady's of the world learn this stuff in-and-out and then just go out on the field and execute it - and I don't see that of Tebow right now. He looks overcoached to me, too many different groups telling him what to do and how to play - tuck your arm Tim, set your feet, no not that way do it this way, stick with your reads, no plant that foot Tim, your arm dropped, why did you run?, your feet are off again, the ball dipped, you've gotta stay in the pocket Tim!, your dipping the ball again, here watch Kyle do it... Now that might be an overexaggeration, but I wouldn't doubt all this crap is swimming in his head right now.

Perhaps that's why it's just not going to work out for him here in Denver, if at all. Maybe it takes a visionary, someone willing to think outside the box and develop an offense that lets him be himself instead of something he's not. I believe Taco was dead on last week when he said McD was getting this offense ready for Tebow last year and this year, I fully expected him to play Tebow in that offense regardless of if he was "ready" or not. Obviously that's not the case now and the Broncos are dealing with the mess that comes with (for the 1st time to my knowledge) a team allowing a coach to draft a QB in the 1st round and firing him before he ever actually plays. Elway and Fox didn't ask for this, and they shouldn't be forced to play the kid or even develop an offense for him if they don't think it's the best recourse to winning games. Again, I don't think your risking Tebow's career by not playing him - I think your risking his career... in Denver.

Not saying it's right or wrong for the Broncos organization- but the longer Tebow sits and Orton plays the less likely I find it that he'll be the future QB of this organization.

DrFate
08-22-2011, 07:26 PM
He didn't practice or train, though! Brady Quinn went and picked the Mannings' QB coach over the summer and Tebow signed books.

I've seen this posted by a few people but I've never read it elsewhere. Is it confirmed that Tebow did nothing to improve on his own? (I have read about Quinn and McCoy going on their own and getting better)

TheReverend
08-22-2011, 07:27 PM
Lighten up, man. That's not really called for. He didn't insult you personally in any way.

His presence is a personal insult.