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epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 09:10 PM
The way that the youngster has been yanked around...it's hard to tell what the BBT's plan is for Tebow.

I want to say that they are just trying to be patient with him and to develop him as a QB, but that idea doesn't seem to hold up. If that was the case, then why have the Broncos continually offered him less and less full-speed play?

Its hard to discern what would be the madness behind the method here.

What do you think is going on with the BBT's handling of Tebow?

garandman
08-20-2011, 09:13 PM
BBT?? Best Bank in Town?? what!!

Yeah, not sure... Old Timmy's body language looked like Cutlers at the end of the game... Not good...

Spider
08-20-2011, 09:14 PM
wtf seriously ?? all kidding and agitating aside , let the ****ing kid develop , if he makes great if not , well then so be it ....... you know alot of ****ing quarter backs that are considered great , have been considered a bust at 1 point time or another ... what the hell is up with you tebownites ?

strafen
08-20-2011, 09:15 PM
WTF is BBT?

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 09:15 PM
BBT?? Best Bank in Town?? what!!

Yeah, not sure... Old Timmy's body language looked like Cutlers at the end of the game... Not good...

BBT = Broncos Brain Trust

DrFate
08-20-2011, 09:16 PM
If he isn't going to get reps in practice and he isn't going to get snaps in pre-season games, there is no 'development'. Just release him.

Garcia Bronco
08-20-2011, 09:16 PM
BBT?? Best Bank in Town??

I designed some of their infrastructure.

Garcia Bronco
08-20-2011, 09:17 PM
Why can't he sit and learn for a few years?

DrFate
08-20-2011, 09:19 PM
Why can't he sit and learn for a few years?

What does he learn by sitting? If Fox wont let him get snaps in meaningless pre-season games, it's clear Tebow isn't in the plans.

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 09:19 PM
Why can't he sit and learn for a few years?

That doesnt seem reasonable at all given how well he played last season in less-than-ideal conditions.

maher_tyler
08-20-2011, 09:20 PM
We need to post a sticky with all the acronyms we have around here...

Spider
08-20-2011, 09:21 PM
What does he learn by sitting? If Fox wont let him get snaps in meaningless pre-season games, it's clear Tebow isn't in the plans.

are you serious ? ......what does he learn by sitting ?

Man-Goblin
08-20-2011, 09:23 PM
I would hope the plan for him is to sit him until he's ready to be an NFL QB. That's clearly at least a year away, probably two, and maybe never. I want the guy to succeed as much as anyone, but put the emotion aside and you'll realize it's not a horrible thing for him to sit and work his ass off and hopefully develop the skills he needs to succeed.

Sitting him now does not mean he will be thrown on the trash heap only to win 4 rings for some other team. It doesn't mean he will never succeed.

And it surely doesn't mean the coaching staff is dicking him around. In fact, I would not be surprised if he's #2 again next week and Quinn doesn't play at all after the starters get their long stint. Tebow and Quinn have been in a rotation with the 2's all camp; I doubt it changes next week.

DrFate
08-20-2011, 09:23 PM
are you serious ? ......what does he learn by sitting ?

I'm dead serious. He's not studying for the bar, he's playing a sport.

He spent all last year 'learning'. If he isn't going to get snaps in pre-season games, he's already done here.

Spider
08-20-2011, 09:25 PM
I'm dead serious. He's not studying for the bar, he's playing a sport.

He spent all last year 'learning'. If he isn't going to get snaps in pre-season games, he's already done here.

not even close , his play has shown that

garandman
08-20-2011, 09:26 PM
wtf seriously ?? all kidding and agitating aside , let the ****ing kid develop , if he makes great if not , well then so be it ....... you know alot of ****ing quarter backs that are considered great , have been considered a bust at 1 point time or another ... what the hell is up with you tebownites ?

Spider as usual... you make no sense at all.
yea the Tebownites want him to develop, as in you quote above, so then you follow up with "what's up with you Tebownites" like they don't WANT him to play and develop.. WTF are you trying to say?

DrFate
08-20-2011, 09:27 PM
not even close , his play has shown that

What play? He was allowed to throw 2 passes tonite.

After starting the last 3 games last year he earned some consideration. He wasn't brilliant but he wasn't inept either.

garandman
08-20-2011, 09:27 PM
I would hope the plan for him is to sit him until he's ready to be an NFL QB. That's clearly at least a year away, probably two, and maybe never. I want the guy to succeed as much as anyone, but put the emotion aside and you'll realize it's not a horrible thing for him to sit and work his ass off and hopefully develop the skills he needs to succeed.

Sitting him now does not mean he will be thrown on the trash heap only to win 4 rings for some other team. It doesn't mean he will never succeed.

And it surely doesn't mean the coaching staff is dicking him around. In fact, I would not be surprised if he's #2 again next week and Quinn doesn't play at all after the starters get their long stint. Tebow and Quinn have been in a rotation with the 2's all camp; I doubt it changes next week.

Sanity... thank you!

razorwire77
08-20-2011, 09:29 PM
I see four possible scenarios.

1.) The team wins 8 or 9 games under Orton, Tebow is used in special packages and sits for another year. Orton plays OK, but he doesn't get extended, Denver gets a comp pick and Tebow and Quinn compete to start in 2012-2013.

2.) The team tanks, Orton sucks, gets hurt or both. Tebow starts the second half of the season and plays well enough to win a couple of games and the team finishes with 5 or 6 wins, too low to make a move to draft Luck. Tebow gets a leg up to start in 2012-2013.

3.) The team tanks, Orton sucks, gets hurt or both. Tebow starts the second half of the season and sucks too. The team finishes with 3 or 4 wins and it's Andrew Luck come on down.

4.) The Mayans were right. BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE! MacGruber spends his last moments on Earth vigorously masturbating to a Timmy underwear ad, even though Tebow wouldn't approve.

TheReverend
08-20-2011, 09:32 PM
There's no plan.

Welcome to Denver, Andrew Luck.

SoCalBronco
08-20-2011, 09:33 PM
I'm dead serious. He's not studying for the bar, he's playing a sport.

.

I bet Tebow could do a better job of applying the Rule Against Perpetuities than Orton. Orton would curl up in a fetal position at the "lives in being" part.

;D

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 09:33 PM
You're projecting again! LOL will you never learn???

It doesn't make sense though.. if they planned on playing Tebow at all this season you would think they would give him more prep now.

It seems like they want Quinn to come in if Orton gets hurt or loses a lot.

None of it makes any sense..

"gamer"

LMFAO

Man-Goblin
08-20-2011, 09:33 PM
I see four possible scenarios.

1.) The team wins 8 or 9 games under Orton, Tebow is used in special packages and sits for another year. Orton plays OK, but he doesn't get extended, Denver gets a comp pick and Tebow and Quinn compete to start in 2012-2013.

2.) The team tanks, Orton sucks, gets hurt or both. Tebow starts the second half of the season and plays well enough to win a couple of games and the team finishes with 5 or 6 wins, too low to make a move to draft Luck. Tebow gets a leg up to start in 2012-2013.

3.) The team tanks, Orton sucks, gets hurt or both. Tebow starts the second half of the season and sucks too. The team finishes with 3 or 4 wins and it's Andrew Luck come on down.

4.) The Mayans were right. BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE! MacGruber spends his last moments on Earth vigorously masturbating to a Timmy underwear ad, even though Tebow wouldn't approve.

In order of preference:

1
4
2
3

Blueflame
08-20-2011, 09:35 PM
Spider as usual... you make no sense at all.
yea the Tebownites want him to develop, as in you quote above, so then you follow up with "what's up with you Tebownites" like they don't WANT him to play and develop.. WTF are you trying to say?

I think what Spider's trying to say is some Tebow fans want him to be given the starting job NOW.... whether he's ready or not. The team, however... is far better off with the decision to grant him the luxury of time to learn, develop and hone his skills (and fundamentals).

McDman
08-20-2011, 09:35 PM
I think it's clear this team does not see Tebow in their future.

Spider
08-20-2011, 09:35 PM
Spider as usual... you make no sense at all.
yea the Tebownites want him to develop, as in you quote above, so then you follow up with "what's up with you Tebownites" like they don't WANT him to play and develop.. WTF are you trying to say?

well genius , the problem is you guys want him to start and as soon as someone says he isnt ready you losers get your panties in a wad , havent you been paying attention ? pick a thread , any thread . somone says Tebow isnt ready and the tebownites come blasting at full speed, if that desnt say lets play him now , nothing does ........ your dismissed **** head

smoke4815162342
08-20-2011, 09:35 PM
I don't think there is a plan with Tebow. I think we are gonna be searching for a new developmental QB in next years draft while Orton sticks around in Denver. Not something that will likely do the franchise any good in the long-run.

Steve Sewell
08-20-2011, 09:40 PM
What play? He was allowed to throw 2 passes tonite.

After starting the last 3 games last year he earned some consideration. He wasn't brilliant but he wasn't inept either.

Umm...tying the largest comeback in Broncos history as a rookie in his 2nd start, going for over 300 yds passing with 1 TD passing and 1 TD rushing isn't brilliant? I don't get it.

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 09:41 PM
I don't think there is a plan with Tebow. I think we are gonna be searching for a new developmental QB in next years draft while Orton sticks around in Denver. Not something that will likely do the franchise any good in the long-run.

Committed to Mediocrity

DrFate
08-20-2011, 09:43 PM
Umm...tying the largest comeback in Broncos history as a rookie in his 2nd start, going for over 300 yds passing with 1 TD passing and 1 TD rushing isn't brilliant? I don't get it.

I meant his performance as a whole (50% completion rate, for example)

I think he has earned a whole lot more respect than this new regime has given him.

I think everone, regardless of opinion, needs to come to grips with what I have tonite - the 'Tebow Era' is already over. He's not going to get a chance to compete for the job. He knows it too.

Taco John
08-20-2011, 09:50 PM
The point is, there isn't a plan with Tebow. That plan was fired last season.

Gort
08-20-2011, 09:52 PM
I meant his performance as a whole (50% completion rate, for example)

I think he has earned a whole lot more respect than this new regime has given him.

i think we'd all be ok with it if the FO came out and said that Tebow was in the long term plans of the Broncos and that they were committed to seeing him learn the position at the NFL to their satisfaction, even if it meant that he didn't get much playing time in year #2. i think even Tebow would be ok with that.

i think Tebow could be a special player in the league and i'd hate to see that happen somewhere else, but if Orton gives the team the best chance for 2011, i'm ok with that.

the FO just needs to stop sending out mixed messages and Elway and Fox have to stop being obviously annoyed every time they get a question about Tebow. McD got tired of the questions and stubbornly refused to play Tebow last year early on (out of spite to the media i think) and we had no luck scoring TDs in the redzone. as soon as he relented and started putting Tebow in the game in redzone situations, we started scoring TDs. there's a lesson in there for Fox. i hope we don't see him refusing to play Tebow out of spite for all of the questions he has to answer about Tebow.

garandman
08-20-2011, 09:52 PM
well genius , the problem is you guys want him to start and as soon as someone says he isnt ready you losers get your panties in a wad , havent you been paying attention ? pick a thread , any thread . somone says Tebow isnt ready and the tebownites come blasting at full speed, if that desnt say lets play him now , nothing does ........ your dismissed **** head

You should have stayed in school Spider.. When I mean school, get thru the 4th grade you tard!

Fine, put me in the Tebownite clan, the fact of the matter is YES we want him to develop! on the field during games is where this kid is going to learn and develop, he had the opportunity to throw 2 passes against scrubs tonight... That is what's called an afterthought NOT developing a proposed QB of the future..

Maybe you just don't get it with all the diesel fumes inhaled over the years

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 09:52 PM
I meant his performance as a whole (50% completion rate, for example)

I think he has earned a whole lot more respect than this new regime has given him.

I think everone, regardless of opinion, needs to come to grips with what I have tonite - the 'Tebow Era' is already over. He's not going to get a chance to compete for the job. He knows it too.

So how do you see things playing out in the future?

Spider
08-20-2011, 09:54 PM
You should have stayed in school Spider.. When I mean school, get thru the 4th grade you tard!

Fine, put me in the Tebownite clan, the fact of the matter is YES we want him to develop! on the field during games is where this kid is going to learn and develop, he had the opportunity to throw 2 passes against scrubs tonight... That is what's called an afterthought NOT developing a proposed QB of the future..

Maybe you just don't get it with all the diesel fumes inhaled over the years

whats this we **** ? got a mouse in your pocket ? as for the rest of your jibberish .... I was right , you was wrong , you should just say thank you spider and I promise to think before I post.......

DrFate
08-20-2011, 09:55 PM
So how do you see things playing out in the future?

I don't see them giving Orton the money/contract he wants. I don't see them putting their faith in Tebow.

The only other option is a 1st round QB in 2012. Luck, Barkley, whomever. There is no doubt in my mind at this point.

Gort
08-20-2011, 09:56 PM
The point is, there isn't a plan with Tebow. That plan was fired last season.

sad, but true.

there also seems to be no plan for Orton either. one week they want to trade him, the next week he's the savvy veteran QB they can't imagine going into the 2011 season without.

i think Elway is in over his head. i also think Fox is more worried about getting 5 or more wins this year, than preparing his players for the 2012 season... i.e., it's better to ignore the Tebow "problem" and hope somebody else solves it for him later, while he focusing on finding at least 5 games on the schedule that Orton might be able to win.

garandman
08-20-2011, 09:59 PM
whats this we **** ? got a mouse in your pocket ? as for the rest of your jibberish .... I was right , you WASwrong , you should just say thank you spider and I promise to think before I post.......

Jesus your a moron... I'll stop, sorry but I can't help it mods...

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 09:59 PM
You should have stayed in school Spider.. When I mean school, get thru the 4th grade you tard!

Spider, you have to admit...THIS is funny! Ha!

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:00 PM
I don't see them giving Orton the money/contract he wants. I don't see them putting their faith in Tebow.

The only other option is a 1st round QB in 2012. Luck, Barkley, whomever. There is no doubt in my mind at this point.

How do they navigate the "Tebow thing" from now on though?

I just don't get why they don't trade him.. unless their master plan all along was to try to force him into another position on the down low.. like try to convince him of that.

That way they don't have to trade him and PO the fans.. and he doesn't come back and bite them in the butt. And they can pretend to develop him long term knowing they aren't serious about it.

Spider
08-20-2011, 10:00 PM
Jesus your a moron... I'll stop, sorry but I can't help it mods...

oh a typo ....... you got me :rofl:

DrFate
08-20-2011, 10:00 PM
there also seems to be no plan for Orton either. one week they want to trade him, the next week he's the savvy veteran QB they can't imagine going into the 2011 season without.


This should be printed and taken to Elway by one of the local reporters. And they shouldn't leave until he gives an answer. End of July, Orton is trade bait. 2 weeks later and you can't live without him.

Spider
08-20-2011, 10:01 PM
Spider, you have to admit...THIS is funny! Ha!

naw the one where requiem told me to roll down my sleeves and go fetch aa 30 pack and some arby's was alot better .. kinda hard to top that one

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 10:02 PM
This should be printed and taken to Elway by one of the local reporters. And they shouldn't leave until he gives an answer. End of July, Orton is trade bait. 2 weeks later and you can't live without him.

Instead of asking that question (which all Broncos fans want answered), the local Denver press has been steady spitting out Broncos talking points.

Methinks there are some Elway brown nosers in the press.

Rick Reilly has already gotten his piece out there, and he's the ultimate Elway apologist.

TailgateNut
08-20-2011, 10:03 PM
I think what Spider's trying to say is some Tebow fans want him to be given the starting job NOW.... whether he's ready or not. The team, however... is far better off with the decision to grant him the luxury of time to learn, develop and hone his skills (and fundamentals).


They can't seem to get this. I was talikng to Miles today about what I tought, and although he is a Timmy fan he understands. Some of these assclown Tebonites could give a **** as long as he plays, even if he doesn't deserve to start.

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 10:03 PM
naw the one where requiem told me to roll down my sleeves and go fetch aa 30 pack and some arby's was alot better .. kinda hard to top that one

Spider, I imagine you as Bob Beckel with a mullet.

DrFate
08-20-2011, 10:04 PM
How do they navigate the "Tebow thing" from now on though?

I think they ignore the Tebow factor. They give him no time on the field between now and then (I say Tebow gets less than 10 pass attempts the rest of preseason) and they swoon about how good Orton looks and how good Quinn looks. Without any chance to play in the final preseason games, the fans can't point to anything. I guess everyone is supposed to ignore the final 3 games of last season.

Spider
08-20-2011, 10:05 PM
Spider, I imagine you as Bob Beckel with a mullet.

and I see you as an ann coulter without the adams apple

DrFate
08-20-2011, 10:07 PM
Instead of asking that question (which all Broncos fans want answered), the local Denver press has been steady spitting out Broncos talking points.

Methinks there are some Elway brown nosers in the press.

Rick Reilly has already gotten his piece out there, and he's the ultimate Elway apologist.

I agree 100%. I have little doubt the Reilly hit piece was orchestrated by the Broncos brass. It was downright insulting, and it was really sad to see the Broncos watch one of their own get blasted and not defend him. Even if they think Tebow is a bum, there should be some level of professionalism.

TailgateNut
08-20-2011, 10:07 PM
sad, but true.

there also seems to be no plan for Orton either. one week they want to trade him, the next week he's the savvy veteran QB they can't imagine going into the 2011 season without.

i think Elway is in over his head. i also think Fox is more worried about getting 5 or more wins this year, than preparing his players for the 2012 season... i.e., it's better to ignore the Tebow "problem" and hope somebody else solves it for him later, while he focusing on finding at least 5 games on the schedule that Orton might be able to win.


Yep, we should just scuttle the 2011 season so Timmy gets some reps. **** THAT. He hasn't earned the right to lead this team, and until he does, you guys just need to LIVE WITH IT! You act as if this season (which hasn't even started) is a lost cause. ****ing losers.

Blueflame
08-20-2011, 10:07 PM
This should be printed and taken to Elway by one of the local reporters. And they shouldn't leave until he gives an answer. End of July, Orton is trade bait. 2 weeks later and you can't live without him.

The answer to that is simple, guys. Training camp started and once Elway and Fox saw Tebow in practice, they realized that the "Tebow Project" was going to take more time than they had originally expected. And both Orton and Quinn looked like better options as this year's starter. This is not to say the same situation will exist next season, however.

strafen
08-20-2011, 10:09 PM
It's not that we, Tebow supporters want Tebow to start.
Speaking for myself, I'd like to see the guy given a fair shot at competing.
The times Tebow's played, he has not disappointed.
He's yet to do stupid things that makes you scratch your head.

We have not seen so far anything that can conclusively say Tebow is not ready.
IF there has been one, please show it here.
Tebow did not do anything last week to be demoted to 3rd string.

I wouldn't say Quinn is more ready to be the starter than Tebow is.

Orton will be Orton once the season starts...

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:09 PM
This should be printed and taken to Elway by one of the local reporters. And they shouldn't leave until he gives an answer. End of July, Orton is trade bait. 2 weeks later and you can't live without him.

Didn't Orton demand a trade? But why would Orton want a trade if the Broncos aren't interested in Tebow?

Orton must have wanted an extension.. a longer term contract.. and since Denver wouldn't give him one he wanted one from Miami.. they wouldn't give him what he wanted so he decided to stay I guess hoping the Broncos get attached to him eventually?

DrFate
08-20-2011, 10:10 PM
The answer to that is simple, guys. Training camp started and once Elway and Fox saw Tebow in practice, they realized that the "Tebow Project" was going to take more time than they had originally expected. And both Orton and Quinn looked like better options as this year's starter. This is not to say the same situation will exist next season, however.

I'll ask this again - how does a few days of throwing in shorts outweigh the film of 3 full NFL games from last year AND the input of the returning OC who coached the player all of last year? If MIA had given Orton a pile of cash, he'd be gone already.

I simply can't believe the front office went from JAN to JUL with a plan in mind of who would lead the franchise, only to scrap it after a couple days of pitch and catch.

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:10 PM
The answer to that is simple, guys. Training camp started and once Elway and Fox saw Tebow in practice, they realized that the "Tebow Project" was going to take more time than they had originally expected. And both Orton and Quinn looked like better options as this year's starter. This is not to say the same situation will exist next season, however.

I don't buy this though because it was too quick. I don't think they would decide to bail on him so quick like that if they took him seriously at all.

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 10:10 PM
I agree 100%. I have little doubt the Reilly hit piece was orchestrated by the Broncos brass. It was downright insulting, and it was really sad to see the Broncos watch one of their own get blasted and not defend him. Even if they think Tebow is a bum, there should be some level of professionalism.

The Broncos have changed, and they don't want to share the new direction with the fans.

We got fluff about bringing in free agent DT's (which didn't happen like a team who wanted to really improve that position would have done), we got fluff about QB competition (which apparently is only between Tebow and Quinn), we got fluff about transparency, etc.

All we got was cam pics of Bowlen in his jogging outfit.

orange 4 life
08-20-2011, 10:11 PM
The way that the youngster has been yanked around...it's hard to tell what the BBT's plan is for Tebow.

I want to say that they are just trying to be patient with him and to develop him as a QB, but that idea doesn't seem to hold up. If that was the case, then why have the Broncos continually offered him less and less full-speed play?

Its hard to discern what would be the madness behind the method here.

What do you think is going on with the BBT's handling of Tebow?

They realized he's a 3rd string QB at this point and may always be. Drafting him in the first round was an obvious mistake and raised expectations.

At the local level most everyone seems to accept this and even nationally I'd be surprised to see anyone disputing it.
Quite simply he's nowhere NEAR the level of QB that Orton is and the team wants to win now. That simple IMHO.

DrFate
08-20-2011, 10:12 PM
Didn't Orton demand a trade? But why would Orton want a trade if the Broncos aren't interested in Tebow?



It was requested that Orton requested a trade after last season. It was also reported Orton wants money similar to what Kolb got (6 years, $60 mil) - and that that was what nixed the MIA deal. (they wanted him on a short term deal)

Gort
08-20-2011, 10:12 PM
Yep, we should just scuttle the 2011 season so Timmy gets some reps. **** THAT. He hasn't earned the right to lead this team, and until he does, you guys just need to LIVE WITH IT! You act as if this season (which hasn't even started) is a lost cause. ****ing losers.

it's not about whether Tebow starts or not. it's about whether or not this organization has any kind of plan for him. if not, say so and trade him. if they do have a plan, then all they have to do is let the fans know that they haven't given up on Tebow. wouldn't you be pissed to find out that they'd given up on a first round pick in only his second year?

even if Tebow never sees the field in 2011, the FO should put together some sort of coherent message so that we all know that there are actual grown-ups running things in Dove Valley these days. that was the problem with McD as you'll remember... he was a paranoid little ****er who didn't tell anyone anything.

i know you hate Tebow because he likes God and you like Satan, but at least bring a little intellectual honesty to these discussion, mmmkay?

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 10:13 PM
They realized he's a 3rd string QB at this point and may always be. Drafting him in the first round was an obvious mistake and raised expectations.

At the local level most everyone seems to accept this and even nationally I'd be surprised to see anyone disputing it.
Quite simply he's nowhere NEAR the level of QB that Orton is and the team wants to win now. That simple IMHO.

Tebow didn't look anything like a third-string QB when he started three games last season.

That's what just does not make sense here.

smoke4815162342
08-20-2011, 10:15 PM
I simply can't believe the front office went from JAN to JUL with a plan in mind of who would lead the franchise, only to scrap it after a couple days of pitch and catch.

Maybe this is the case, and we are becoming one of those teams we have been laughing at for so long.

Gort
08-20-2011, 10:16 PM
They realized he's a 3rd string QB at this point and may always be. Drafting him in the first round was an obvious mistake and raised expectations.

At the local level most everyone seems to accept this and even nationally I'd be surprised to see anyone disputing it.
Quite simply he's nowhere NEAR the level of QB that Orton is and the team wants to win now. That simple IMHO.

except for one little problem. in the 6 quarters where Studesville actually allowed Tebow to play without shackles on, the Broncos last year under Tebow were much more competitive than they were with Orton at the helm (except for that KC game). same team. different QBs. why does everyone discount this? have you all been replaced by pod people? am i the last one here who remembers the 2nd half of the Houston game and the final SD game?

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:17 PM
It was requested that Orton requested a trade after last season. It was also reported Orton wants money similar to what Kolb got (6 years, $60 mil) - and that that was what nixed the MIA deal. (they wanted him on a short term deal)

Do you think they put that info out about not being high on Tebow after last season to see if there was any interest from other teams about a trade?

Maybe the only reason they kept Tebow and didn't offer him in a trade was because Orton demanded a trade. So they figured they would maybe need him as backup.. but why not try and trade him now?

orange 4 life
08-20-2011, 10:18 PM
Orton will be Orton once the season starts...

I sure hope so since Orton is a very good quarterback. What he did last year (and the year prior playing with moderate to severe injuries) with virtually NO running game was extremely impressive.

Can't wait to see how good he will be with a solid running attack.
As for the red zone woes blaming that on Orton would be nothing short of ludicrous.
The inability to score 7 was a result of a non existent running attack and below average (if not downright awful) play calling.
We started to see tonight what he can do with better players around him and red zone wasn't an issue.

DrFate
08-20-2011, 10:19 PM
I sure hope so since Orton is a very good quarterback.

Again - please ignore the last SIX years of Orton's play.

kthxbye

Gort
08-20-2011, 10:19 PM
anyway, it's hard to get too worked up over Tebow vs. Quinn vs. Orton on a night when nearly everything went right for the Broncos. so long as they win consistently, i'd be ok with almost anyone at QB. i'll bow out of these of these pissing contests for tonight.

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:19 PM
except for one little problem. in the 6 quarters where Studesville actually allowed Tebow to play without shackles on, the Broncos last year under Tebow were much more competitive than they were with Orton at the helm (except for that KC game). same team. different QBs. why does everyone discount this? have you all been replaced by pod people? am i the last one here who remembers the 2nd half of the Houston game and the final SD game?

You aren't the only one..

"Steve Young just called Tebow "Greatness we are watching"
He basically all but guaranteed Tebow will be great, win a lot of games, and will change the position as we know it. When asked about Tebow his first response was "Tim Tebow is greatness" and if someone builds on the offense we are running with him he would be the only guy to run this "new" scheme and thus become great with his unique skill set whether is running or passing the bowl."

All this changed because of a training camp? None of it adds up. lo;


Is this just what happens when you have no one taking responsibility in the organization? It's the complete opposite of the McD era..

baja
08-20-2011, 10:20 PM
and I see you as an ann coulter without the adams apple

and dick.

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 10:21 PM
and dick.

I think that was implicit in his statement. ;D

Bob's your Information Minister
08-20-2011, 10:23 PM
They're not even giving him a chance.

Even this guy got a chance:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/football/nfl/players/7834.jpg

orange 4 life
08-20-2011, 10:25 PM
except for one little problem. in the 6 quarters where Studesville actually allowed Tebow to play without shackles on, the Broncos last year under Tebow were much more competitive than they were with Orton at the helm (except for that KC game). same team. different QBs. why does everyone discount this? have you all been replaced by pod people? am i the last one here who remembers the 2nd half of the Houston game and the final SD game?

I watched every play of those games twice.
Tebow did some good things but at the end of the day his weaknesses were glaring. No ability to look off a receiver, too quick to run, and FAR too inaccurate among other things.

Stats can be deceiving and watching those games (similar to the Dallas game last week) you have to acknowledge how many plays he clearly has no clue out there or has no ability to make an accurate throw. In other words he wasn't NEARLY as good as the stat line showed and he was bailed out on many occasions. I'd challenge you to watch those games again and see what you think. San Diego was largely junk time and even then he had two completions that clearly should've been picks.

Conversely Orton picked apart the Bills tonight with surgical precision. The same precision he had last season. Difference is this season we should be able to run the ball and therefore we should be drastically improved in the red zone.

TailgateNut
08-20-2011, 10:26 PM
it's not about whether Tebow starts or not. it's about whether or not this organization has any kind of plan for him. if not, say so and trade him. if they do have a plan, then all they have to do is let the fans know that they haven't given up on Tebow. wouldn't you be pissed to find out that they'd given up on a first round pick in only his second year?

even if Tebow never sees the field in 2011, the FO should put together some sort of coherent message so that we all know that there are actual grown-ups running things in Dove Valley these days. that was the problem with McD as you'll remember... he was a paranoid little ****er who didn't tell anyone anything.

i know you hate Tebow because he likes God and you like Satan, but at least bring a little intellectual honesty to these discussion, mmmkay?


I don't believe in neither of your imaginary beings, and for your info, You ****ing people who have elevated Tim to infallible status before he ever faced an NFL D are the ones turning me off.
I hope the kid gets it together, but you guys just want to throw him to the wolves. HE'S NOT READY!

orange 4 life
08-20-2011, 10:29 PM
anyway, it's hard to get too worked up over Tebow vs. Quinn vs. Orton on a night when nearly everything went right for the Broncos. so long as they win consistently, i'd be ok with almost anyone at QB. i'll bow out of these of these pissing contests for tonight.

Fair comment and all internet wars aside there is ZERO controversy within the locker room.
The ONLY controversy was for the #2 job and even that seems fairly obvious at this point.

I really like Tebow as a young man and hope he can find some level of success (likely settling in to a career as a back up) in another city and in the mean time I wouldn't mind seeing us use him in a Wild Horses formation (only if he can pull off the occasional downfield pass) or even lining up in the backfield with Orton still under center.
There's no denying the kid's athletic ability but he's just not there as a QB.

orange 4 life
08-20-2011, 10:32 PM
Tebow didn't look anything like a third-string QB when he started three games last season.

That's what just does not make sense here.

On many teams he would be a #2 and a few teams might be desperate enough to start him.
That said on this team he is clearly a #3.
As for last year he may not have looked like a #3 but he also didn't look anywhere near as good as Orton did.

peacepipe
08-20-2011, 10:33 PM
tebow=tebust. plain & simple. I know most people had a hard on for him but he's not ever going to be QBOTF for denver or any other team.

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:33 PM
Fair comment and all internet wars aside there is ZERO controversy within the locker room.
The ONLY controversy was for the #2 job and even that seems fairly obvious at this point.

I really like Tebow as a young man and hope he can find some level of success (likely settling in to a career as a back up) in another city and in the mean time I wouldn't mind seeing us use him in a Wild Horses formation (only if he can pull off the occasional downfield pass) or even lining up in the backfield with Orton still under center.
There's no denying the kid's athletic ability but he's just not there as a QB.

And people wonder why I go on and on trying to straighten people out... lol

This has nothing to do with Tebow as a passer.. it's all about the system and Fox not being willing to build a system around Tebow OR wait for him to learn a pocket system.

It has nothing to do with his passing ability.

Gort
08-20-2011, 10:36 PM
I don't believe in neither of your imaginary beings, and for your info, You ****ing people who have elevated Tim to infallible status before he ever faced an NFL D are the ones turning me off Jersey.
I hope the kid gets it together, but you guys just want to throw him to the wolves. HE'S NOT READY!

that's funny... so everyone who likes Tebow is automatically clamoring for him to be the starter now no matter what, huh?

isn't in possible that some of us are more concerned that this new regime has given up on him without really giving him a shot? he did face NFL defenses last year. we saw they he did some good things and he did some bad things. i only have a problem with Orton as the #1 QB if the Tebow question goes unanswered for the next year. either he's part of the future or he isn't. if he is, then it makes little sense to bench him this year. if he isn't then say so and trade him. the FO doesn't seem to have any sort of plan that they are executing on. maybe that's due to the lockout, i don't know. i just don't believe that the Broncos are more than a 5 or 6 win team in 2011 with Orton at the helm. if you'll recall, we looked like world beaters last year during pre-season game #3 against Pittsburgh, and we ended up 4-12. i don't put much stock in a pre-season win over the lowly Bills this year. we have a depth problem on this team and i still don't know if we can run the ball or stop the run. so, if Tebow is part of the plan, we would be wasting a year by benching him in favor of Orton.

however, maybe Fox and Elway believe winning 5 or 6 games is more important this year than getting Tebow some experience, even though he may be part of their future plans. i wouldn't agree, but i would understand. they just need to come out and say so.

however, maybe you believe we are playoff contenders with Orton at the helm in 2011. if that's your belief, then i understand why you want him to play. i don't understand why you hate Tebow, but i guess you're just an angry guy.

peacepipe
08-20-2011, 10:36 PM
And people wonder why I go on and on trying to straighten people out... lol

This has nothing to do with Tebow as a passer.. it's all about the system and Fox not being willing to build a system around Tebow OR wait for him to learn a pocket system.

It has nothing to do with his passing ability.it has everything to do with him as a passer. it's the primary job of a QB.

Gort
08-20-2011, 10:38 PM
it has everything to do with him as a passer. it's the primary job of a QB.

5 of his 8 snaps tonight were running plays... just saying.

SoCalBronco
08-20-2011, 10:39 PM
I really like Tebow as a young man and hope he can find some level of success (likely settling in to a career as a back up) in another city .

Why do you hope he can find success in another city, Jake?

What's wrong with finding success in Denver?

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:40 PM
it has everything to do with him as a passer. it's the primary job of a QB.

Yes.. him being a passer in a certain system. Watch Cam Newton play and see how an offense caters to their QB. And he sucks ass.

It's as if they want Tebow to fully convert into a pocket passing system over night. They don't have to do things that way

hambone13
08-20-2011, 10:47 PM
i think we'd all be ok with it if the FO came out and said that Tebow was in the long term plans of the Broncos and that they were committed to seeing him learn the position at the NFL to their satisfaction, even if it meant that he didn't get much playing time in year #2. i think even Tebow would be ok with that.

i think Tebow could be a special player in the league and i'd hate to see that happen somewhere else, but if Orton gives the team the best chance for 2011, i'm ok with that.

the FO just needs to stop sending out mixed messages and Elway and Fox have to stop being obviously annoyed every time they get a question about Tebow. McD got tired of the questions and stubbornly refused to play Tebow last year early on (out of spite to the media i think) and we had no luck scoring TDs in the redzone. as soon as he relented and started putting Tebow in the game in redzone situations, we started scoring TDs. there's a lesson in there for Fox. i hope we don't see him refusing to play Tebow out of spite for all of the questions he has to answer about Tebow.

Interesting perspective that's tough to argue intelligently. I like it. I would still really just like to see him play and develop with the first team. It's not like we didn't draft one of the best college QB's of all time....I say let the intangibles develop or not. What do what we have to lose....a couple more games?

Ratboy
08-20-2011, 10:49 PM
There's no plan.

Welcome to Denver, Andrew Luck.

:thumbs:

Blueflame
08-20-2011, 10:50 PM
I'll ask this again - how does a few days of throwing in shorts outweigh the film of 3 full NFL games from last year AND the input of the returning OC who coached the player all of last year? If MIA had given Orton a pile of cash, he'd be gone already.

I simply can't believe the front office went from JAN to JUL with a plan in mind of who would lead the franchise, only to scrap it after a couple days of pitch and catch.

The first day of training camp was the first time Fox and Elway had any opportunity to assess Tebow's development first-hand. The film of 3 games was last year... and a different (interim) coach... and yes, I do expect the HC's input to outweigh that of any assistant coach. But perhaps I missed the part where the OC thought Tebow was the best QB available? Starting him this year isn't the same thing as letting him do mop-up last year... in what was already sure to be a losing season... while Orton was banged up.

Sure... if Miami had pulled the trigger on the Orton trade, Orton would be gone. And the people who are now b*tching about Orton would instead be b*tching about Quinn because it certainly looks to me like the coaches might be placing him ahead of Tebow too.

peacepipe
08-20-2011, 10:54 PM
Yes.. him being a passer in a certain system. Watch Cam Newton play and see how an offense caters to their QB. And he sucks ass.

It's as if they want Tebow to fully convert into a pocket passing system over night. They don't have to do things that way

cam newton is going to be a bust as well. tom brady had to learn to play in bilicheks system so will tebust if he wants to make it in the NFL.

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 10:56 PM
cam newton is going to be a bust as well. tom brady had to learn to play in bilicheks system so will tebust if he wants to make it in the NFL.

Belichcik built a great system around Brady.. he would do the same with Tebow too.

hambone13
08-20-2011, 10:59 PM
Spider, I imagine you as Bob Beckel with a mullet.

I picture the two of you in a bar fight at a truck stop where you end up with your pants down and Spider has you in a position to take you like the farm animal you probably are, but spares you because he's more on his game.

peacepipe
08-20-2011, 11:04 PM
Belichcik built a great system around Brady.. he would do the same with Tebow too. belicicks system was already in place before Brady ever started for the patriots. get your facts straight. Brady won his 1st SB playing within billicheks system. you do remember brady comming in mid-season don't you when bledsoe got hurt.

TailgateNut
08-20-2011, 11:10 PM
belicicks system was already in place before Brady ever started for the patriots. get your facts straight. Brady won his 1st SB playing within billicheks system. you do remember brady comming in mid-season don't you when bledsoe got hurt.


STOP QUOTING this stalker! He's nucking futz.

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 11:13 PM
belicicks system was already in place before Brady ever started for the patriots. get your facts straight. Brady won his 1st SB playing within billicheks system. you do remember brady comming in mid-season don't you when bledsoe got hurt.

Wrong.. he adapted his system to his player.. Brady was not durable and Beli knew how to protect him.. it's that simple. And he continued to do this year after year..

He would tweak his system to Tebow's strengths too. all this stuff about Tebow not being ready is BS.. it's the coaching staff that isn't ready. And therefore its too risky for them to do something out of the norm because they don't know any other way..

MacGruder
08-20-2011, 11:14 PM
STOP QUOTING this stalker! He's nucking futz.

You are projecting again.. Giving away info about yourself..

Mile High Mojoe
08-20-2011, 11:16 PM
I would hope the plan for him is to sit him until he's ready to be an NFL QB. That's clearly at least a year away, probably two, and maybe never. I want the guy to succeed as much as anyone, but put the emotion aside and you'll realize it's not a horrible thing for him to sit and work his ass off and hopefully develop the skills he needs to succeed.

Sitting him now does not mean he will be thrown on the trash heap only to win 4 rings for some other team. It doesn't mean he will never succeed.

And it surely doesn't mean the coaching staff is dicking him around. In fact, I would not be surprised if he's #2 again next week and Quinn doesn't play at all after the starters get their long stint. Tebow and Quinn have been in a rotation with the 2's all camp; I doubt it changes next week.

Best post tonight on this topic. I was all set to go on an epic rant about some of the insane talk that have read in this thread and others. 2 preseason games, I repeat 2 preseason games doesnít mean everything is finally carved into stone tonight.

Quinn didn't suddenly become an All Pro playing in the second game of the preseason against the Buffalo Bills. Neither did Orton. You Diehards must know that placing a preseason bet to bank a buck on a regular season game is bad bet.

There are so many variables attached to this whole team itís hard for me to believe that Quinn and Orton can play well enough to make up for all the other holes that are so glaring.

The truth is Orton had far more offensive weapons on his team 2 years ago than he does today. Moreno hasnít impressed, the freeagent RBís have proven zip, no proven #2 or #3 WR as of yet and the same at the TE position. The OL is coming along and the running game just canít nose dive any lower than last year so what have you got? Good Olí #8 out there to save the day? Looking for Lloyd on every pass down will fool somebody this year? Quinn? You really believe those 2 are going to transform the Broncos back to a winning franchise? Carry this team on their backs?

Tebow hating aside, the QB position is the least of the problems. The D gets better under Fox we agree but this O could be equal to or worse than last year very easily.

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 11:17 PM
I picture the two of you in a bar fight at a truck stop where you end up with your pants down and Spider has you in a position to take you like the farm animal you probably are, but spares you because he's more on his game.

I don't know if I'd be admitting something like that to Spider.

epicSocialism4tw
08-20-2011, 11:19 PM
Best post tonight on this topic. I was all set to go on an epic rant about some of the insane talk that have read in this thread and others. 2 preseason games, I repeat 2 preseason games doesnít mean everything is finally carved into stone tonight.

Quinn didn't suddenly become an All Pro playing in the second game of the preseason against the Buffalo Bills. Neither did Orton. You Diehards must know that placing a preseason bet to bank a buck on a regular season game is bad bet.

There are so many variables attached to this whole team itís hard for me to believe that Quinn and Orton can play well enough to make up for all the other holes that are so glaring.

The truth is Orton had far more offensive weapons on his team 2 years ago than he does today. Moreno hasnít impressed, the freeagent RBís have proven zip, no proven #2 or #3 WR as of yet and the same at the TE position. The OL is coming along and the running game just canít nose dive any lower than last year and what have you got? Good Olí #8 out there to save the day? Quinn? You really believe those 2 are going to transform the Broncos back to winning franchise? Carry this team on their backs?

Tebow hating aside, the QB position is the least of the problems. The D gets better under Fox we agree but this O could be equal to or worse than last year very easily.

YES!

He's back!

This dude and Bronco Warrior need to have another couple of great runs. Simultaneous runs would be otherworldly.

bombay
08-20-2011, 11:24 PM
Almost all hall of fame QBs in the NFL sat and learned for at least a year or two. I don't think Tebow is worth a whole lot of controversy. If the Tebowites were to go with him, it would have a terrific effect on the Bronco fan base as a whole. Particularly if the epic douchebag were at the head of the defectors.

Pseudofool
08-20-2011, 11:29 PM
Tebow's lack of playing isn't necessarily indicative of a lack of faith, but rather Tebow's problems lie within in more base, mechanical skills--skills that perhaps aren't necessarily improved in game. Tebow's play making and ability to rise the occasion may be detrimental to his mechanical development; it's clear the guy can make plays, but that ability might undercut development of proper mechanics so he doesn't need to make plays.

The reality is that the depth chart isn't so much giving up on Tebow as it is proof that Quinn and Orton are playing at a high level, and might be living up to their pedigrees.

Quinn's emergence, I believe, could make an in season or preseason trade of Orton more likely. I wonder if the FO and coaching staff really believe the team can be competitive, because it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep and pay Orton if he can be had for anything of a value, especially if they believe in Quinn as well.

hambone13
08-20-2011, 11:58 PM
I don't know if I'd be admitting something like that to Spider.

Precisely, but he's still well liked for good reason. Be careful where you **** and eat.

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 03:16 AM
anyway, it's hard to get too worked up over Tebow vs. Quinn vs. Orton on a night when nearly everything went right for the Broncos. so long as they win consistently, i'd be ok with almost anyone at QB. i'll bow out of these of these pissing contests for tonight.

I'm looking at this team's potential to be a contender in the future. I don't care about how they look against a crappy team in the preseason. A team that plans on contending does not give up on a guy like Tebow. He may ultimately fail, but Tebow has Super Bowl winner written all over him if he can master the nuances of the NFL. Any team that throws potential like that away has no clue how to become a contender. And it's pretty clear they are throwing it away when they give the guy two pass attempts in a preaseason game and then pull him for Adam Weber at the end.

After tonight I expect us to win more games this season than I did going in.

After tonight I have far less hope of becoming a Super Bowl team in the next five years than I did going in.

cutthemdown
08-21-2011, 03:38 AM
The way Tebow plays in practice probably determines a lot. But I see them giving Tebow more reps next week. Look at what Quinn has went through, he was a first round pick as well. Its tough to be a starting QB and right now Orton just way better then Tebow. Not as athletic, not as exciting, but you don't get the feeling he is out of control like you do with Tebow.

This isn't college, you have to know where your wr are going to be, you have to know coverages.

I really hope Tebow finds a place on the team though. He's everything you want in a football player as a fan.

cutthemdown
08-21-2011, 03:40 AM
There's no plan.

Welcome to Denver, Andrew Luck.

You are crazy if you think Denver the worst team in the NFL. They look so much better this yr it's not even close. IMO Broncos will probably go 7-9, something like that.

The defense looks better, the oline looks better, the rbs look better, and Orton looks solid. Also just the overall coaching seems better. Hard to tell as a laymen but just the way the players seem to respond to the coaches, the body language, tells me they already respect and want to play hard for fox.

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 04:25 AM
You are crazy if you think Denver the worst team in the NFL. They look so much better this yr it's not even close. IMO Broncos will probably go 7-9, something like that.

The defense looks better, the oline looks better, the rbs look better, and Orton looks solid. Also just the overall coaching seems better. Hard to tell as a laymen but just the way the players seem to respond to the coaches, the body language, tells me they already respect and want to play hard for fox.

While I agree that they look better, I think you should probably reign in the optimism based off of meaningless preseason games. We still have a lot of problems on this team, many of which are carry overs from last year that the FO failed to address.

We likely won't be in a position to draft Luck. It's true. But so far there is nothing substantial that proves we are greatly improved.

TailgateNut
08-21-2011, 04:29 AM
While I agree that they look better, I think you should probably reign in the optimism based off of meaningless preseason games. We still have a lot of problems on this team, many of which are carry overs from last year that the FO failed to address.

We likely won't be in a position to draft Luck. It's true. But so far there is nothing substantial that proves we are greatly improved.


That same optimism you guys flaunted after Timmys performance after the Dallas game???

When Timmy does well, pre-season counts.
When Timmy doesn't do well it doesn't.
It's all about Timmy.
Slurp!

elsid13
08-21-2011, 05:46 AM
This is extremely funny, Tebow has struggled in the minds of the decision makers therefore he is the #3 QB. Good news for everyone the #3 QB is active this season and come and take snaps without forcing teams to take the #1, #2 from the game. Tebow is Kordell Stewart 2.0 right now and that the role he going to play for the next couple years with this team.

FADERPROOF
08-21-2011, 06:16 AM
My personal thoughts...

Coach Fox during his entire tenure in Carolina really only had 1 QB as his starter, Jake Delhomme. He made a few NFC championship games with him, won division title, and damn near won a Super Bowl with him, so Fox is very comfortable with a guy like Delhomme at QB.

Orton and Quinn are a more "Delhomme" type than Tebow, and Fox feels a lot more comfortable RIGHT NOW with them as his QB than he does Tebow. So not only does Tebow have to practice/learn his pocket passing skills, but Fox is also having to learn how to handle and coach a QB like Tebow.

I don't think that Tebow is done in Denver and will never get a shot, it's just a work in process on both Tebow and Fox to get comfortable in this offense.

Drek
08-21-2011, 06:24 AM
Orton and Quinn are a more "Delhomme" type than Tebow, and Fox feels a lot more comfortable RIGHT NOW with them as his QB than he does Tebow. So not only does Tebow have to practice/learn his pocket passing skills, but Fox is also having to learn how to handle and coach a QB like Tebow.

You know that comparison makes no sense right?

How does Tebow differ from Delhomme? Because he's bigger, stronger, can run, and throws a far superior deep ball. Delhomme was a faster decision maker and worked short to intermediate to get anything done.

Now comparing Delhomme to Orton? That's valid. But Quinn is your traditional "prototype" QB. He's big, strong, athletic, and throws a very good deep ball. His decision making has been his problem.

Quinn is far more like Tebow than he is like Delhomme or Orton.

That same optimism you guys flaunted after Timmys performance after the Dallas game???

When Timmy does well, pre-season counts.
When Timmy doesn't do well it doesn't.
It's all about Timmy.
Slurp!

When has he not done well in pre-season? If Rosario wasn't a scrub Tebow is at least 2/2 with one big deep pass on the stat line last night. He didn't get a chance to actually play last night, just hand offs.

DrFate
08-21-2011, 06:30 AM
The first day of training camp was the first time Fox and Elway had any opportunity to assess Tebow's development first-hand. The film of 3 games was last year... and a different (interim) coach... and yes, I do expect the HC's input to outweigh that of any assistant coach. But perhaps I missed the part where the OC thought Tebow was the best QB available? Starting him this year isn't the same thing as letting him do mop-up last year... in what was already sure to be a losing season... while Orton was banged up.


You completely missed the point. THIS coach had already made the decision - Orton was gone. He was tradebait IN JULY. As recently as a month ago Orton was being pushed out the door.

No one has reconciled how the team had six months to make a decision (based on real game tape and internal discussions), MADE THE DECISION, only to have a complete change of direction after a few days of camp. When did watching a guy throw in shorts mean more than actual game tape?

If someone said 'we'd lose the locker room if Orton was on the team and didn't start' - at least that would be reasonable. A bipolar front office simply doesn't give me any optimism. Do you honestly think Fox and Elway just sat on their hands, didn't look at tape, didn't talk to McCoy, and yet put Orton on the block? It makes no sense.

Requiem
08-21-2011, 06:30 AM
I'm not sure why some of you are surprised.

Tebow's performances were overrated by fans on the team because they were so fed up with Orton and were willing to accept anything different. Although Tebow might have great drive and work ethic, that always doesn't translate to success. All camp reports have had Orton and Quinn being cited as the best quarterbacks day in and day out. The writing was on the wall with Tim -- actually with all the quarterbacks this season.

Orton should have been dealt, but we are too greedy.

Quinn doesn't have a starting future here beyond his contract.

It seems as if Tebow will never get the chance to be a starter here; he was a McDaniels experiment and it will likely end with not much more production than what has been offered so far.

I think the Broncos are desperate to find "their" own guy, especially Elway.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 06:34 AM
except for one little problem. in the 6 quarters where Studesville actually allowed Tebow to play without shackles on, the Broncos last year under Tebow were much more competitive than they were with Orton at the helm (except for that KC game). same team. different QBs. why does everyone discount this? have you all been replaced by pod people? am i the last one here who remembers the 2nd half of the Houston game and the final SD game?

That's what I don't get. No one seems to explain why Tebow was able to be more effective in real games despite all his flaws. The team was more inspired on both sides of the ball, and the Broncos were a better team than with Orton.

Yet people still somehow convince themselves that Orton gives us the best chance to win now. It makes no sense at all.

It seems that people are so stuck in the Brady/Manning/Brees box of QBing that they can't stand ugly effectiveness. Yes Tebow isn't pretty at times, but he's gotten the job done better than Orton when it counts. That's my bottom line.

Hogan11
08-21-2011, 06:35 AM
I'm not sure why some of you are surprised.

Tebow's performances were overrated by fans on the team because they were so fed up with Orton and were willing to accept anything different. Although Tebow might have great drive and work ethic, that always doesn't translate to success. All camp reports have had Orton and Quinn being cited as the best quarterbacks day in and day out. The writing was on the wall with Tim -- actually with all the quarterbacks this season.

Orton should have been dealt, but we are too greedy.

Quinn doesn't have a starting future here beyond his contract.

It seems as if Tebow will never get the chance to be a starter here; he was a McDaniels experiment and it will likely end with not much more production than what has been offered so far.

I think the Broncos are desperate to find "their" own guy, especially Elway.

All true, all correct.

Tebow is not in the team's planning for the future, period. He also won't be delt because of $$ reasons. You don't give away one of the top merch sellers in the league till the suckers stop buying it and sales drop.

That's all it in a nutshell, deal with it.

FADERPROOF
08-21-2011, 06:35 AM
My comparison makes no sense yet you agree with Delhomme/Orton? Speaking of things that don't make any sense...

And Brady Quinn throws a great deep ball? I've heard everything now...

Hogan11
08-21-2011, 06:38 AM
My comparison makes no sense yet you agree with Delhomme/Orton? Speaking of things that don't make any sense...

And Brady Quinn throws a great deep ball? I've heard everything now...

Quinn is not in Cleveland anymore. He's looked 1000x better in the last two preseason games than he ever did there. Even haters have to give that much to him.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 06:39 AM
Tebow's performances were overrated

What exactly, was overrated about them?

FADERPROOF
08-21-2011, 06:48 AM
Quinn is not in Cleveland anymore. He's looked 1000x better in the last two preseason games than he ever did there. Even haters have to give that much to him.

I'm not a hater, I'm actually hoping for Quinn to succeed, but throwing a GREAT deepball has never been him and doubt he just developed it over an offseason

Requiem
08-21-2011, 06:56 AM
What exactly, was overrated about them?

Fans were upset with losing, and we were 1-2 with Tebow.

His completion percentage was absolutely atrocious, but understandable.

The San Diego game was pretty bad, even with the rushing on the ground. That game wasn't as close as the score indicates. Had multiple turnovers, and one of the least accurate games I had seen from a quarterback in my time watching the NFL.

The plus factors for Tim are more points on the board (although at least one was a special teams) and that he brings an incredible dynamic as a rusher on the field. Nobody ever doubted his talents as a rusher, but he is still incredibly raw as a passer. He was (and is) still wildly inconsistent at passing. I am not a huge Tebow fan, but I'd rather him start over Orton/Quinn because they have no future with the team, and he has so much ability it seems like it would be wasted if not tried given our investment in him (financial and pick wise).

At least that is what I believe. I pondered very hard while pooping this morning the chances that he receives a contract extension, given Fox's like for veterans and potential play this season. I think it is a pretty good opportunity, especially if we aren't able to draft one of the top signal callers in the draft -- whom unless is Andrew Luck, probably wouldn't do much as a starter right away re: success.

That is just my thought on this matter. He did pretty darn good for a rookie, but I do think people have blown what he did out of proportion.

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 06:59 AM
You are crazy if you think Denver the worst team in the NFL. They look so much better this yr it's not even close. IMO Broncos will probably go 7-9, something like that.

The defense looks better, the oline looks better, the rbs look better, and Orton looks solid. Also just the overall coaching seems better. Hard to tell as a laymen but just the way the players seem to respond to the coaches, the body language, tells me they already respect and want to play hard for fox.

Do I think we'll be the WORST team in the NFL? No

Do I think Luck may slip a LITTLE and that we'll be in 2 1sts and a 2nd range? You bet

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 07:01 AM
The plus factors for Tim are more points on the board

IMO, the rest really doesn't matter. With the same team as Orton, Tebow put more points on the board.

The rest is nothing more than aesthetics.

Requiem
08-21-2011, 07:02 AM
Do I think Luck may slip a LITTLE and that we'll be in 2 1sts and a 2nd range? You bet

http://images.wikia.com/grouches/images/a/a5/Oscar_the_Grouch_4.jpg

What?

If the worst team in the NFL is not us and they do not have a QBOF, Luck is going #1.

Who do you see overtaking him?

Garcia Bronco
08-21-2011, 07:04 AM
sad, but true.

there also seems to be no plan for Orton either. one week they want to trade him, the next week he's the savvy veteran QB they can't imagine going into the 2011 season without.

i think Elway is in over his head. i also think Fox is more worried about getting 5 or more wins this year, than preparing his players for the 2012 season... i.e., it's better to ignore the Tebow "problem" and hope somebody else solves it for him later, while he focusing on finding at least 5 games on the schedule that Orton might be able to win.

Orton asked for the trade according to Griese in the week 1 broadcast. Elway is hardly in over his head. He's a pedigreed talent evaluator, has had success in another league, and has proved himself a savvy business man. Plus...he doesn't like to lose.

Cito Pelon
08-21-2011, 07:07 AM
Probably the plan is to "make him a good QB, not just a good football player".

It's up to Tebow to make himself good enough to where they CAN plan for him next year at QB. He'll get a lot of reps with the scout team to hone his skills.

Requiem
08-21-2011, 07:16 AM
IMO, the rest really doesn't matter. With the same team as Orton, Tebow put more points on the board.

The rest is nothing more than aesthetics.

It should matter. Improvement on "the rest" would lead to better consistency and accuracy on throws is directly related to the success of the team. There is no way in Hell Tebow keeps winning games and putting up points if he doesn't somehow improve his deficiencies.

He has yet to see a quality starting defense in the NFL in a full-time capacity. I do not think another year on the bench would hurt him. Maybe if Orton performs poorly, he will get another shot, but I do not see it with Fox unless he shows substantial improvement or Orton gets really hurt.

My gut tells me that Fox believes he can do what he did in Carolina immediately here in Denver, and that Orton is the guy best suited to do that given his experience and the fact that A LOT of time was lost due to the lockout.

So in summary, perhaps the reservations EFX has on Tebow isn't regarding his performance abilities, just the fact that there was so little time to prepare for this season, that it makes sense to go with the veteran option with the most notches under his belt.

But hear me out, I still would rather have Tebow starting.

Broncos4tw
08-21-2011, 07:19 AM
Wrong.. he adapted his system to his player.. Brady was not durable and Beli knew how to protect him.. it's that simple. And he continued to do this year after year..

He would tweak his system to Tebow's strengths too. all this stuff about Tebow not being ready is BS.. it's the coaching staff that isn't ready. And therefore its too risky for them to do something out of the norm because they don't know any other way..

Right.. all the coaches, the players, AND the analysts who say Tebow is not ready are all nuts. You are the only one who is actually correct. Uhh

They say his accuracy is off. He also tries too quickly to run. To me, it seemed as if he had his primary.. and if he wasn't open, he took of running. He'll last a grand total of a season or two if he plays like that. I don't care how strong he is, someone bigger, stronger and faster is going to take him out.

I badly wanted Tebow to do well. I think he still might. But it's pretty obvious when the team puts the third guy ahead of him.. he ISN'T READY! Live in whatever Tebow-inspired fantasy land you are living in if you wish. It's clear those who actually do this for a living realizes Tebow isn't ready for prime time yet. They are not doing it to protect him, either. They are doing it because they want to field the best team possible.

P.S. When you have to build your ENTIRE OFFENSE around a player, you have to ask yourself.. is it worth it? They don't know if it's worth it, and don't seem to want to risk years of "rebuilding" to find out.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 07:27 AM
It should matter. Improvement on "the rest" would lead to better consistency and accuracy on throws is directly related to the success of the team. There is no way in Hell Tebow keeps winning games and putting up points if he doesn't somehow improve his deficiencies.Of course he needs to improve, but he's already more effective at scoring points than Orton, so how people come to the conclusion that Orton gives us a better chance to win now, is beyond me. What people are really saying is that they prefer pretty football to points. doesn't make any sense to me.

He has yet to see a quality starting defense in the NFL in a full-time capacity. I do not think another year on the bench would hurt him. Maybe if Orton performs poorly, he will get another shot, but I do not see it with Fox unless he shows substantial improvement or Orton gets really hurt.
This is the totally fallacious "defenses will adjust and then they'll be able to stop him" argument. If it held any water, Every QBs first few starts would be the best of their career.

My gut tells me that Fox believes he can do what he did in Carolina immediately here in Denver, and that Orton is the guy best suited to do that given his experience and the fact that A LOT of time was lost due to the lockout.Still doesn't make sense unless you're considering aesthetics over production.

So in summary, perhaps the reservations EFX has on Tebow isn't regarding his performance abilities, just the fact that there was so little time to prepare for this season, that it makes sense to go with the veteran option with the most notches under his belt.I think it's more of a locker room PR thing, and fear from the FO.

But hear me out, I still would rather have Tebow starting.
I want anyone but Orton starting.

Jesterhole
08-21-2011, 07:28 AM
I have to say I have lost some faith in the ability of Elway as GM if they are honestly not going to try and develop Tim. After what he showed last season, there is enough potential to throw him into the fire and see what happens.

For the long term, starting Orton does nothing for this team. He'll be gone next year, because we'll see once again that he can't be the guy who comes up big when you need a play, and so we'll let him walk.

And Brady looks like a bigger project to me than Tebow. They both need to work on being consistent, but Brady throws waaaay more picks, and has none of the mobility that Tebow does.

If the plan is simply to go after Luck, and screw everything else, then fine. Even so, it seems like starting Tebow is still the best option for that route as well.

I remember this board being pretty convinved it was Tebow Time as the end of last season. Since then, Tim has been denied all the mini-camps and offseason contact with coaches that all second year players, especially QB's, really need. So I'm not sure where all the enthusiasm went, but when we all saw him play in those games, and not meaningless practices with sports writes itching to be snarky, we all knew we had something special, worth the risk and certainly better than watching Orton for another season.

Rock Chalk
08-21-2011, 07:53 AM
If he isn't going to get reps in practice and he isn't going to get snaps in pre-season games, there is no 'development'. Just release him.

OH my god that sounds like a plan.

Let's clear our some of these so-called Bronco fans and get back to talking about, you know, the Broncos.

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 07:56 AM
I have to say I have lost some faith in the ability of Elway as GM if they are honestly not going to try and develop Tim. After what he showed last season, there is enough potential to throw him into the fire and see what happens.

For the long term, starting Orton does nothing for this team. He'll be gone next year, because we'll see once again that he can't be the guy who comes up big when you need a play, and so we'll let him walk.

And Brady looks like a bigger project to me than Tebow. They both need to work on being consistent, but Brady throws waaaay more picks, and has none of the mobility that Tebow does.

If the plan is simply to go after Luck, and screw everything else, then fine. Even so, it seems like starting Tebow is still the best option for that route as well.

I remember this board being pretty convinved it was Tebow Time as the end of last season. Since then, Tim has been denied all the mini-camps and offseason contact with coaches that all second year players, especially QB's, really need. So I'm not sure where all the enthusiasm went, but when we all saw him play in those games, and not meaningless practices with sports writes itching to be snarky, we all knew we had something special, worth the risk and certainly better than watching Orton for another season.

Unfortunately it seems that many Bronco fans have the memories of gnats. They've also apparently forgotten that Orton can't get it done when it really matters. They actually seem to think Orton playing well in a meaningless preseason game means he's going to be improved or something...

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 07:57 AM
OH my god that sounds like a plan.

Let's clear our some of these so-called Bronco fans and get back to talking about, you know, the Broncos.

You do know that Tebow is a Bronco yes?

Rock Chalk
08-21-2011, 08:01 AM
You do know that Tebow is a Bronco yes?

Yep, and when he steps on the field as a starter I will root for him but I dont have to like him. THat's the difference between me and you Teblowers. I dont give a **** about backups unless they see the field. I root for the guys out there because they make up the team. If that's Orton great, I will root for his success and not boo or wish the guy injury.

You people wont even root for Orton. You criticize every little thing he does. If he makes a good play, its because of someone else. If he does the smart thing and dumps it off, you say "anyone can do that". If he has a bad play, good God the world is going to end and its "That would have NEVER happened under Tebow".

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 08:11 AM
Yep, and when he steps on the field as a starter I will root for him but I dont have to like him. THat's the difference between me and you Teblowers. I dont give a **** about backups unless they see the field. I root for the guys out there because they make up the team. If that's Orton great, I will root for his success and not boo or wish the guy injury.

You people wont even root for Orton. You criticize every little thing he does. If he makes a good play, its because of someone else. If he does the smart thing and dumps it off, you say "anyone can do that". If he has a bad play, good God the world is going to end and its "That would have NEVER happened under Tebow".

I want to win so I'll root for Orton as long as he's our starter. I don't particularly foresee him doing much to actually help us do that though, seeing as he's pretty consistently failed so far.

Funny how some of us have pattern recognition and some of us don't...

Rock Chalk
08-21-2011, 08:14 AM
I want to win so I'll root for Orton as long as he's our starter. I don't particularly foresee him doing much to actually help us do that though, seeing as he's pretty consistently failed so far.

Funny how some of us have pattern recognition and some of us don't...

Funny how Orton with a decent team around him in CHicago did a pretty good job of winning but its hard to win when your defense is ranked 32 in yards, 32 in points scored and 31st against the run and you have the 30th ranked rushing offense, no cohesive offensive line and an idiot for a coach.

But its all on Orton.

Gort
08-21-2011, 08:15 AM
Orton asked for the trade according to Griese in the week 1 broadcast. Elway is hardly in over his head. He's a pedigreed talent evaluator, has had success in another league, and has proved himself a savvy business man. Plus...he doesn't like to lose.

regarding Elway, the jury is out. however, i've not been too impressed with how he's handled the QB "controversy" from a PR standpoint. for a guy who was part of his own controversies and who was not trusted by his own head coach early on, it seems to me that Elway could be doing much better at handling this than he is. also, running an Arena League team is not quite the same as being part of the triumvirate running an NFL team.

the simple fact is this... Elway, Xanders, Fox, and Bowlen need to make a decision in the next few weeks if Tebow is part of the future or not. if they postpone that decision and Tebow doesn't get meaningful snaps in practice or during games, then the QB controversy in 2012 is going to be worse. we'll have Orton, Quinn, and Tebow all with uncertain futures and the option of choosing another QB in the draft looming.

what if Tebow doesn't play, Quinn sees limited action as the #2 all season, and Orton leads us to 6 or 7 wins? i'm afraid that Fox and Elway will have boxed themselves into a corner where we end up signing Orton to a 5 or 6 year deal for $50M-$60M and then Orton by default becomes our QBOTF. ...kinda like a high school kid waiting too long to ask the pretty girl to the prom and ends up getting stuck asking the pretty girl's fat friend instead.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 08:18 AM
Funny how Orton with a decent team around him in CHicago did a pretty good job of winning

Really? Never getting a playoff win or appearance?

Again, it's laughable to me that people are supporting "pretty Good, "not really that bad" as what we should resign ourselves to at the QB position.

The truth is that even with great defensive play, Orton has never accomplished anything.

Gort
08-21-2011, 08:25 AM
Really? Never getting a playoff win or appearance?

Again, it's laughable to me that people are supporting "pretty Good, "not really that bad" as what we should resign ourselves to at the QB position.

The truth is that even with great defensive play, Orton has never accomplished anything.

without going too far down the road of the Orton vs. Cutler debate, i'd also add this question in your response to Rock Chalk:

why was Chicago so anxious to trade Orton for Cutler if he'd done such a good job winning there? wasn't Orton an afterthought in the Cutler deal too? didn't Chicago see an opportunity to throw in Orton after the deal had basically been done without him? i seem to recall that. it's as if they couldn't get rid of Orton fast enough.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 08:42 AM
without going too far down the road of the Orton vs. Cutler debate, i'd also add this question in your response to Rock Chalk:

why was Chicago so anxious to trade Orton for Cutler if he'd done such a good job winning there? wasn't Orton an afterthought in the Cutler deal too? didn't Chicago see an opportunity to throw in Orton after the deal had basically been done without him? i seem to recall that. it's as if they couldn't get rid of Orton fast enough.

If Orton had done anything of note, he wouldn't have been benched for the playoffs in his only successful season in Chicago.

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 08:46 AM
without going too far down the road of the Orton vs. Cutler debate, i'd also add this question in your response to Rock Chalk:

why was Chicago so anxious to trade Orton for Cutler if he'd done such a good job winning there? wasn't Orton an afterthought in the Cutler deal too? didn't Chicago see an opportunity to throw in Orton after the deal had basically been done without him? i seem to recall that. it's as if they couldn't get rid of Orton fast enough.

They publicly acknowledged they were going to cut Orton whether or not they were able to make the deal for Cutler.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 08:48 AM
BBT = Broncos Brain Trust

the bbt is being patient with tt per efx...

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 08:49 AM
the bbt is being patient with tt per efx...

Which makes no sense whatsoever.

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 08:51 AM
Which makes no sense whatsoever.

"Let's develop him by burying his preseason reps!"

*EFX high-fives*

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 08:54 AM
I like what Willie McGinnist said on NFLN, he said that the Broncos are probably not going to keep 3 QBs and this game was a good advertisement for Quinn.

Quinn is a 5 year vet, Tebow is a 2nd year player in a new system.

Inkana7
08-21-2011, 08:55 AM
No QB is developed in the preseason. It happens in the offseason. If Tebow isn't read, that's that. Whatever.

Cito Pelon
08-21-2011, 08:55 AM
I have to say I have lost some faith in the ability of Elway as GM if they are honestly not going to try and develop Tim. After what he showed last season, there is enough potential to throw him into the fire and see what happens.

For the long term, starting Orton does nothing for this team. He'll be gone next year, because we'll see once again that he can't be the guy who comes up big when you need a play, and so we'll let him walk.

And Brady looks like a bigger project to me than Tebow. They both need to work on being consistent, but Brady throws waaaay more picks, and has none of the mobility that Tebow does.

If the plan is simply to go after Luck, and screw everything else, then fine. Even so, it seems like starting Tebow is still the best option for that route as well.

I remember this board being pretty convinved it was Tebow Time as the end of last season. Since then, Tim has been denied all the mini-camps and offseason contact with coaches that all second year players, especially QB's, really need. So I'm not sure where all the enthusiasm went, but when we all saw him play in those games, and not meaningless practices with sports writes itching to be snarky, we all knew we had something special, worth the risk and certainly better than watching Orton for another season.

Dude, I was one of the biggest Tebow guys last season and leading up to this season, but the bolded is just not the case as it is right now.

Tebow has to play better in those "meaningless practices". You can't start a QB that is not executing the offense in practice.

That's all there is to it, NO TEAM STARTS A QB THAT CAN'T EXECUTE IN PRACTICE, PERIOD!!!!!!!

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 08:57 AM
oh the humanity!! (panic time on the Omane)

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 08:58 AM
No QB is developed in the preseason. It happens in the offseason. If Tebow isn't read, that's that. Whatever.

Show me another team not TRYING to get their developmental QBs preseason reps.

I'll wait right here.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 08:58 AM
Dude, I was one of the biggest Tebow guys last season and leading up to this season, but the bolded is just not the case as it is right now.


How is that not the case right now?

Miss I.
08-21-2011, 08:59 AM
They publicly acknowledged they were going to cut Orton whether or not they were able to make the deal for Cutler.

I thought that McDaniels asked for Orton as part of the trade package. I don't recall them saying they were going to cut him. Do you have the article link by any chance. Just curious.

Thanks.

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 09:00 AM
Funny how Orton with a decent team around him in CHicago did a pretty good job of winning but its hard to win when your defense is ranked 32 in yards, 32 in points scored and 31st against the run and you have the 30th ranked rushing offense, no cohesive offensive line and an idiot for a coach.

But its all on Orton.

I love when you Orton-lovers bring up the peak of the guy's career which basically involved him riding the coattails of a team that struggled every week to win in spite of him. Quite a crowning achievement that is. ::)

Cito Pelon
08-21-2011, 09:00 AM
Yep, and when he steps on the field as a starter I will root for him but I dont have to like him. THat's the difference between me and you Teblowers. I dont give a **** about backups unless they see the field. I root for the guys out there because they make up the team. If that's Orton great, I will root for his success and not boo or wish the guy injury.

You people wont even root for Orton. You criticize every little thing he does. If he makes a good play, its because of someone else. If he does the smart thing and dumps it off, you say "anyone can do that". If he has a bad play, good God the world is going to end and its "That would have NEVER happened under Tebow".

That's about the size of it. As a Teblower I'm shocked at some of the idiocy from my fellow Teblower's.

elsid13
08-21-2011, 09:04 AM
I like what Willie McGinnist said on NFLN, he said that the Broncos are probably not going to keep 3 QBs and this game was a good advertisement for Quinn.

Quinn is a 5 year vet, Tebow is a 2nd year player in a new system.

The won't release any of the QBs. The new rules allow them to keep the active and Tebow will be able to play SLASH role when McCoy wants to runs some Wildcat stuff.

boppool
08-21-2011, 09:09 AM
What does he learn by sitting? If Fox wont let him get snaps in meaningless pre-season games, it's clear Tebow isn't in the plans.

Aaron Rodgers and Phillip Rivers disgree with you.

Cito Pelon
08-21-2011, 09:10 AM
How is that not the case right now?

Tebow is not ready to be thrown into the fire right now. And until he can show he can execute the offense in practice, I don't want him starting. I bet nobody on the entire team and staff wants Tebow starting. Tebow himself would probably say he's not ready to start. I'm sure he wants to play, but I bet he knows he's not ready to start.

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 09:11 AM
I don't see them giving Orton the money/contract he wants. I don't see them putting their faith in Tebow.

The only other option is a 1st round QB in 2012. Luck, Barkley, whomever. There is no doubt in my mind at this point.I think Fox/Elway will resign Orton. Reward him for a so-so year and then draft a young kid, who will take at least 2yrs to develop.

Orton is this team's immediate future....the next 3yrs anyway. Boy, that's exciting!

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 09:11 AM
I thought that McDaniels asked for Orton as part of the trade package. I don't recall them saying they were going to cut him. Do you have the article link by any chance. Just curious.

Thanks.

There were articles after the trade where Angelo/Lovie were planning on releasing Orton regardless.

Unfortunately, when I googled there's a good 100,000 articles involving those key words where it gets lost in Cutler speculation, but here's a few alluding to it:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/1275/angelo-endorses-marinelli-but-not-orton

http://ssm.nwherald.com/bears/story.php?id=796

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2008/12/angelo-wont-com.html

I'd keep looking but it's breakfast time (yes at noon... intermittent fasting thing). I'll try to remember to check again later if those aren't satisfactory in illustrating their dissatisfaction post Orton's 2008 campaign.

vonqkilla
08-21-2011, 09:12 AM
Lets see what happens next week.

I love TT but right now the key to winning the super bowl is getting better on d, and rebalancing ourselves.

The chaos last year was deep, meetings would change last minute, it was unprofessional, injured guys couldnt come to games and had to watch at dove valley.

Now EFX has us back on our feet, and "tim is a work in progress", lets let this play out. It was a preseason game!

And Von Miller is going to Hawaii with Elvis.

Get hyped about that!!!

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 09:12 AM
Aaron Rodgers and Phillip Rivers disgree with you.

If we had a franchise legend or Drew Brees in front of him, no one would be complaining... try again.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 09:13 AM
The won't release any of the QBs. The new rules allow them to keep the active and Tebow will be able to play SLASH role when McCoy wants to runs some Wildcat stuff.

true, they won't release Quinn, but they may TRADE HIM... with the Bill's game, he might actually bring in a 3rd rounder?

vonqkilla
08-21-2011, 09:13 AM
Tebow is not ready to be thrown into the fire right now. And until he can show he can execute the offense in practice, I don't want him starting. I bet nobody on the entire team and staff wants Tebow starting. start.
Tebow is ready, broncos arent.

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 09:15 AM
I think Fox/Elway will resign Orton. Reward him for a so-so year and then draft a young kid, who will take at least 2yrs to develop.

Orton is this team's immediate future....the next 3yrs anyway. Boy, that's exciting!

If and when that happens I really hope I'm not near any sharp instruments...

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 09:15 AM
Dude, I was one of the biggest Tebow guys last season and leading up to this season, but the bolded is just not the case as it is right now.

Tebow has to play better in those "meaningless practices". You can't start a QB that is not executing the offense in practice.

That's all there is to it, NO TEAM STARTS A QB THAT CAN'T EXECUTE IN PRACTICE, PERIOD!!!!!!!You're losing me dude. Explain to me, how going 9-11 for 101yds in the first 2 preseason games....indicates that Tebow can't execute?

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 09:17 AM
If and when that happens I really hope I'm not near any sharp instruments...Make that two of us. But, really they don't have many options. They could let Orton go, and resign Quinn....then draft a young kid. Same scenario. You just don't manufacture the type of media blitz that the Broncos have against Tebow...if you want him to be the future of your Team.

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 09:18 AM
Tebow is ready, broncos arent.Well said!

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 09:19 AM
true, they won't release Quinn, but they may TRADE HIM... with the Bill's game, he might actually bring in a 3rd rounder?

Holy crap what is with this place thinking poor QBs are worth 10x more than they are...

Miss I.
08-21-2011, 09:19 AM
There were articles after the trade where Angelo/Lovie were planning on releasing Orton regardless.

Unfortunately, when I googled there's a good 100,000 articles involving those key words where it gets lost in Cutler speculation, but here's a few alluding to it:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/1275/angelo-endorses-marinelli-but-not-orton

http://ssm.nwherald.com/bears/story.php?id=796

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2008/12/angelo-wont-com.html

I'd keep looking but it's breakfast time (yes at noon... intermittent fasting thing). I'll try to remember to check again later if those aren't satisfactory in illustrating their dissatisfaction post Orton's 2008 campaign.

No those will suffice. I suspect had we not traded Cutler to them, they would've held onto Orton at least through 2009 and grabbed a QB in the draft for grooming. The discussions in the articles are roughly of the same content as some of the things said in here, though possibly more articulately and without resorting to the namecalling. Grossman was a goner no matter what though (not exactly shocking that).

Anyway, thanks for the info. ;D

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 09:27 AM
[IMG]http://images.wikia.com/grouches/images/a/a5/Oscar_the_Grouch_4.jpg[IMG]

What?

If the worst team in the NFL is not us and they do not have a QBOF, Luck is going #1.

Who do you see overtaking him?

Sorry I missed this. Pounded some benedryl and sleep coma'd I was so mad.

Anyway, I DON'T think Luck slips, but it's certainly possible. Moving on, let's look at last year's worse teams to get an idea of who could be picking #1 overall.

Panthers: Cam
Us: ----------
Bills: ---------
Bengals: Might be interested
Cardinals: Kolb
Browns: McCoy
49ers: ------------
Titans: Locker
Cowboys: Romo
Redskins: ----------

So that leaves 3-4 of those teams in position to want Luck.

So our competition for Luck boils down to the Bills, 9ers, Redskins and maybe Cinci (though they just got burned by a franchise QB and may be hesitant and want to develop Dalton). Of those teams, how many will be worse and have more leverage?

It has to be MORE than 1 team worse than us. And of that one worse team, they may be VERY content with grabbing Barkley to avoid a bidding war.

I think one of the teams running with a rookie QB and willing to take their lumps has a better shot at drafting #1 overall... so maybe Carolina again... which puts him up for grabs.

So yeah, if Tebow isn't the guy, I definitely think we're all in on Luck.

Agamemnon
08-21-2011, 09:31 AM
Sorry I missed this. Pounded some benedryl and sleep coma'd I was so mad.

Anyway, I DON'T think Luck slips, but it's certainly possible. Moving on, let's look at last year's worse teams to get an idea of who could be picking #1 overall.

Panthers: Cam
Us: ----------
Bills: ---------
Bengals: Might be interested
Cardinals: Kolb
Browns: McCoy
49ers: ------------
Titans: Locker
Cowboys: Romo
Redskins: ----------

So that leaves 3-4 of those teams in position to want Luck.

So our competition for Luck boils down to the Bills, 9ers, Redskins and maybe Cinci (though they just got burned by a franchise QB and may be hesitant and want to develop Dalton). Of those teams, how many will be worse and have more leverage?

It has to be MORE than 1 team worse than us. And of that one worse team, they may be VERY content with grabbing Barkley to avoid a bidding war.

I think one of the teams running with a rookie QB and willing to take their lumps has a better shot at drafting #1 overall... so maybe Carolina again... which puts him up for grabs.

So yeah, if Tebow isn't the guy, I definitely think we're all in on Luck.

If we have a top 5 pick I fully believe EFX will do whatever they can to move up for Luck. Even if we are only in the top 10 I think it's a real possibility.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 09:33 AM
Holy crap what is with this place thinking poor QBs are worth 10x more than they are...

If Quinn keeps getting significant snaps in preseason... ok, how about a 4th? or a defensive player? The Broncos can keep all three or they can be advertising Quinn and Orton for a trade. They aren't gonna trade Tebow, at this point I don't think any other teams would seriously want him and if they did, they wouldn't give the Broncos much for him.

CEH
08-21-2011, 09:33 AM
Sorry I missed this. Pounded some benedryl and sleep coma'd I was so mad.

Anyway, I DON'T think Luck slips, but it's certainly possible. Moving on, let's look at last year's worse teams to get an idea of who could be picking #1 overall.

Panthers: Cam
Us: ----------
Bills: ---------
Bengals: Might be interested
Cardinals: Kolb
Browns: McCoy
49ers: ------------
Titans: Locker
Cowboys: Romo
Redskins: ----------

So that leaves 3-4 of those teams in position to want Luck.

So our competition for Luck boils down to the Bills, 9ers, Redskins and maybe Cinci (though they just got burned by a franchise QB and may be hesitant and want to develop Dalton). Of those teams, how many will be worse and have more leverage?

It has to be MORE than 1 team worse than us. And of that one worse team, they may be VERY content with grabbing Barkley to avoid a bidding war.

I think one of the teams running with a rookie QB and willing to take their lumps has a better shot at drafting #1 overall... so maybe Carolina again... which puts him up for grabs.

So yeah, if Tebow isn't the guy, I definitely think we're all in on Luck.

SEA might be in the mix as well. Not real confident in Jackson and Whitehurst

smoke4815162342
08-21-2011, 09:56 AM
The front office has gone from being dead set on Tebow being the starter, and trading Orton, to dead set on Orton being the starter, and Tebow being demoted. There is no plan with the entire QB position. Elway has no experience, Xanders has never handled the real duties of a GM, Fox has shown QBs aren't too important in philosophy. EFX are way in over their head on our QB situation.

Garcia Bronco
08-21-2011, 10:03 AM
Elway has no experience?

He ran an AFL team to A title
He's a pedigreed talent evaluator...his dad was a scout. Football is the family business
Plus a 16 year playing career

While I am sure there are things to learn...he has experience.

StugotsIII
08-21-2011, 10:06 AM
You never show all your cards in preseasonÖ


What does Tebow do well?


Operate in the redzone.


What does Orton not do well?


Operate in the rezone.


Tebow could account for about 15-20 TD's if he is primarily used in redzone packages.

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 10:08 AM
If Quinn keeps getting significant snaps in preseason... ok, how about a 4th? or a defensive player? The Broncos can keep all three or they can be advertising Quinn and Orton for a trade. They aren't gonna trade Tebow, at this point I don't think any other teams would seriously want him and if they did, they wouldn't give the Broncos much for him.

I don't know about this though.. because at one time said the Broncos were shopping Orton but not Tebow..

Why wouldn't the Broncos even consider shopping Tebow if they didn't have an interest in him?

But then why would they seemingly screw him over like this now?

I think they want to keep him but use him at another position.. and MAYBE develop him as a QB long long term..

But it is really mostly about using him as a marketing tool as I see it.

Requiem
08-21-2011, 10:10 AM
Goodbye Tim.

Garcia Bronco
08-21-2011, 10:13 AM
Who said the Broncos have no interest in Tim? He's not ready.

Further..we have a 1st rounder pick on Tebow. He isn't going to get more value than a 4th or 5th round pick. Not worth it. It's worth it to hang on to him and let him learn.

smoke4815162342
08-21-2011, 10:14 AM
Elway has no experience?

He ran an AFL team to A title
He's a pedigreed talent evaluator...his dad was a scout. Football is the family business
Plus a 16 year playing career

While I am sure there are things to learn...he has experience.

-Arena league and the NFL are very very very different.
-How is he a pedigreed talent evaluator? because his dad was a scout? Scouting is not a genetic thing.
-Playing career doesn't matter much, VP of football operations as first football job, how'd that work out with the last person to try it? i.e. matt millan

Drek
08-21-2011, 10:16 AM
Panthers: Cam
Us: ----------
Bills: ---------
Bengals: Might be interested
Cardinals: Kolb
Browns: McCoy
49ers: ------------
Titans: Locker
Cowboys: Romo
Redskins: ----------

The 49ers took Kaepernick in the 2nd and are trying to act like he's got a real future with them. Besides, if Gore stays healthy and their defense is even halfway respectable they'll be significantly better than us.

Bengals have Dalton, maybe they bail after only a single season but it seems rather unlikely they would.

Redskins are in a good spot to effect a significant improvement in their record, regardless of QB. Doubt they'll be in striking distance for Luck.

SEA might be in the mix as well. Not real confident in Jackson and Whitehurst

Sure. But Seattle won their division in Carrol's first year and added some significant pieces (Sidney Rice, Kevin Boss, Robert Gallery) to the offense. They'll also now have Lynch for a full season and all the young guys they brought in previously get another year of improvement. Couple that with being in the NFC West with six VERY winnable games at a minimum as a result. Not to mention the significant value they've invested in Jackson and Whitehurst. If they aren't one of the absolute worst teams it'd be hard to explain dumping pretty much two season's (2012 and 2013) of draft value into just getting Luck.

I said back when the trade for Orton fell apart that this was a Suck for Luck year. Elway and co. were going to throw Tebow out raw in 2012 and make him sink or swim, where either he'd prove himself or deliver Luck on a silver platter. But when they overplayed their hand with the Dolphins they found themselves stuck with Orton. So now Tebow probably never actually gets a chance here.

Orton "led" this team to a 3-10 record last season. We've since traded Gaffney for a backup DE, likely won't have Bey Bey who dominated the Seattle game for us, and replaced Jamaal Williams and Bannan with Broderick Bunkley. We're starting a rookie at safety next to Dawkins instead of Hill, who was still solid last year. Same OL except now we've got a rookie starting at RT instead of Harris. The list goes on.

The only real advantages would be Miller, McGahee, and the fact that our team just simply hasn't had the time to get as injured as they were last season. Not exactly a rousing endorsement. Especially when you consider that the real brain trust behind the offense that made Orton and Lloyd look good last year is gone, or that Orton regressed significantly as last season went on.

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 10:17 AM
Who said the Broncos have no interest in Tim? He's not ready.

That's the whole point though.. he looked ready. And they act like he isn't ready...

Further..we have a 1st rounder pick on Tebow. He isn't going to get more value than a 4th or 5th round pick. Not worth it. It's worth it to hang on to him and let him learn.

That's total speculation. Cam Newton was the number one pick and Tebow looks better than him...

Cito Pelon
08-21-2011, 10:23 AM
You're losing me dude. Explain to me, how going 9-11 for 101yds in the first 2 preseason games....indicates that Tebow can't execute?

C'mon man, it's clear Tebow is not ready to start. I bet Tebow himself will tell you he's not ready to start yet. I don't have anything against Tebow at all, I've been one of his biggest supporters, but this is not his year. The staff gave him his chance and he didn't seize it, that's all there is to it. Tebow can't execute the offense consistently, period. There's no way any coaching staff in the NFL would start Tebow right now.

Relax, he'll get another chance next year once he refines his game. This is just a momentary setback, that's all. If he's mentally tough enough to deal with his failure, he'll get his chance to prove coach McD right.

Garcia Bronco
08-21-2011, 10:23 AM
-Arena league and the NFL are very very very different.
-How is he a pedigreed talent evaluator? because his dad was a scout? Scouting is not a genetic thing.
-Playing career doesn't matter much, VP of football operations as first football job, how'd that work out with the last person to try it? i.e. matt millan

You are right they are different, but Elway had to learn that game and he succeeded. He already knows NFL football.
-I don't think you could honestly take away from my point that I implied scouting was the result of genetics. However, there is information passed on and like I said. It's the family business. This is the typical result between a parent and it's offspring interactions. Certainly I was talking about nurture.
-Elway has a proven track record of successful businesses from dealerships to an AFL Franchise, to successful charitable foundations. He's successful. Dude was even a scratch golfer. Matt Millian didn't really have that kind of pedigree bot in business and football.

NUB
08-21-2011, 10:24 AM
It was just one preseason game. They want to see what they have with Quinn, which is legitimate as he has been playing well. They will both get their shot. Denver will not accept losing with Orton being the starter, so there's no way he's the starter through the season unless he actually plays well sans-McDaniels and the defense isn't soft vs. the run again. If they never play Tebow and drop him without seeing what he has then the front office is retarded.

By the way, nobody is getting Luck unless they're the #1 overall pick or they want to trade away the war chest and the kitchen sink with it.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 10:26 AM
You're losing me dude. Explain to me, how going 9-11 for 101yds in the first 2 preseason games....indicates that Tebow can't execute?

It looks like Quinn is just more ready than Tebow. Quinn has absolutely no pressure on him, he's relaxed and confident. The guy with pressure to perform is Tebow and he's simply not ready for this pro-style offense Fox runs, especially with no offseason help.

bigbucks24
08-21-2011, 10:26 AM
I don't think I have ever seen a fanbase so pissed off that their starting QB played well. Most fans are happy when their starter plays well. Not Denver. And I don't think I've ever seen so much love for a player that a large portion of the fanbase wants him to play no matter whether he is ready or not. Damn the results. They just want their favorite player to play. It's almost like a lot of fans have become fans of Tebow and not fans of the Bronco's.

bigbucks24
08-21-2011, 10:28 AM
It looks like Quinn is just more ready than Tebow. Quinn has absolutely no pressure on him, he's relaxed and confident. The guy with pressure to perform is Tebow and he's simply not ready for this pro-style offense Fox runs, especially with no offseason help.

I'll never understand why this is so hard for some people to grasp.

smoke4815162342
08-21-2011, 10:29 AM
You are right they are different, but Elway had to learn that game and he succeeded. He already knows NFL football.
-I don't think you could honestly take away from my point that I implied scouting was the result of genetics. However, there is information passed on and like I said. It's the family business. This is the typical result between a parent and it's offspring interactions. Certainly I was talking about nurture.
-Elway has a proven track record of successful businesses from dealerships to an AFL Franchise, to successful charitable foundations. He's successful. Dude was even a scratch golfer. Matt Millian didn't really have that kind of pedigree bot in business and football.

-I think you way way way overvaluing the information he learned from his dad. Do you think Jack Elway would have been an nfl scout if his son wasn't the star of that franchise? Was his time with nfl europe really that valuable?
-What does golfing, marketing car dealerships, and the business aspect of a ridiculousy morped version of football have to do with evaluating the aspects of an NFL team?

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 10:35 AM
The 49ers took Kaepernick in the 2nd and are trying to act like he's got a real future with them. Besides, if Gore stays healthy and their defense is even halfway respectable they'll be significantly better than us.

Bengals have Dalton, maybe they bail after only a single season but it seems rather unlikely they would.

Redskins are in a good spot to effect a significant improvement in their record, regardless of QB. Doubt they'll be in striking distance for Luck.

Sure. But Seattle won their division in Carrol's first year and added some significant pieces (Sidney Rice, Kevin Boss, Robert Gallery) to the offense. They'll also now have Lynch for a full season and all the young guys they brought in previously get another year of improvement. Couple that with being in the NFC West with six VERY winnable games at a minimum as a result. Not to mention the significant value they've invested in Jackson and Whitehurst. If they aren't one of the absolute worst teams it'd be hard to explain dumping pretty much two season's (2012 and 2013) of draft value into just getting Luck.

I said back when the trade for Orton fell apart that this was a Suck for Luck year. Elway and co. were going to throw Tebow out raw in 2012 and make him sink or swim, where either he'd prove himself or deliver Luck on a silver platter. But when they overplayed their hand with the Dolphins they found themselves stuck with Orton. So now Tebow probably never actually gets a chance here.

Orton "led" this team to a 3-10 record last season. We've since traded Gaffney for a backup DE, likely won't have Bey Bey who dominated the Seattle game for us, and replaced Jamaal Williams and Bannan with Broderick Bunkley. We're starting a rookie at safety next to Dawkins instead of Hill, who was still solid last year. Same OL except now we've got a rookie starting at RT instead of Harris. The list goes on.

The only real advantages would be Miller, McGahee, and the fact that our team just simply hasn't had the time to get as injured as they were last season. Not exactly a rousing endorsement. Especially when you consider that the real brain trust behind the offense that made Orton and Lloyd look good last year is gone, or that Orton regressed significantly as last season went on.

I disagree with absolutely none of this.

I would add that albeit being vastly improved and phenomenally coached, the Redskins schedule and division MAY put them within striking distance along with Mike's affinity to make a big move, Snyder's love for trading draft picks, and the drought that city's had for a franchise QB.

If Beck/Grossman flounder even a little and they're in striking distance, I think they pull the trigger.... or move on Barkley. Who knows.

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 10:40 AM
I don't know about this though.. because at one time said the Broncos were shopping Orton but not Tebow..

Why wouldn't the Broncos even consider shopping Tebow if they didn't have an interest in him?

But then why would they seemingly screw him over like this now?

I think they want to keep him but use him at another position.. and MAYBE develop him as a QB long long term..

But it is really mostly about using him as a marketing tool as I see it.Because they know that if they shop Tebow....the fans will errupt...similar to the Cutler Dabacle. Otherwise, they would shop him!

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 10:44 AM
C'mon man, it's clear Tebow is not ready to start. I bet Tebow himself will tell you he's not ready to start yet. I don't have anything against Tebow at all, I've been one of his biggest supporters, but this is not his year. The staff gave him his chance and he didn't seize it, that's all there is to it. Tebow can't execute the offense consistently, period. There's no way any coaching staff in the NFL would start Tebow right now.

Relax, he'll get another chance next year once he refines his game. This is just a momentary setback, that's all. If he's mentally tough enough to deal with his failure, he'll get his chance to prove coach McD right.I agree he'll get another chance...it just won't be in Denver.

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 10:45 AM
Because they know that if they shop Tebow....the fans will errupt...similar to the Cutler Dabacle. Otherwise, they would shop him!

I think they piss fans off more by doing what they are now rather than just trading him though. And it divides the locker room as well.

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 10:46 AM
It looks like Quinn is just more ready than Tebow. Quinn has absolutely no pressure on him, he's relaxed and confident. The guy with pressure to perform is Tebow and he's simply not ready for this pro-style offense Fox runs, especially with no offseason help.The kid has only been allowed to throw the ball 9 times and completed 7 of them. How do you or the coached know that he's not ready? They're not even giving him the chance.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Redskins are in a good spot to effect a significant improvement in their record, regardless of QB. Doubt they'll be in striking distance for Luck.

I bet the Skins finish last in the NFCE. Eagles, Cowboys & the Giants all have a "defense" while the skins have another Shanny mistake. Add in the fact that they are starting Grossman (yes, Shanny has him looking good in the preseason) and I just don't see how anyone thinks the Skins will do well.

I think Shanny's team will very much be in the hunt for Luck come next draft.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 10:47 AM
The kid has only been allowed to throw the ball 9 times and completed 7 of them. How do you or the coached know that he's not ready? They're not even giving him the chance.

I'm saying I just think Quinn is more ready.

broncocalijohn
08-21-2011, 10:50 AM
I disagree with absolutely none of this.

I would add that albeit being vastly improved and phenomenally coached, the Redskins schedule and division MAY put them within striking distance along with Mike's affinity to make a big move, Snyder's love for trading draft picks, and the drought that city's had for a franchise QB.

If Beck/Grossman flounder even a little and they're in striking distance, I think they pull the trigger.... or move on Barkley. Who knows.

True. With the Redskins playing in the same division as the Eagles (favorite to get to the Superbowl in the NFC), the Cowboys and The Giants, I don't think it is unreasonable that they improve and still come in 3rd or last in their division. Their chances at a top pick is still pretty good. I do love the "phenomenally coached" line you give to offset their better than not chance of sucking this year. Still holding a candle for Shanahan I see.

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 10:51 AM
True. With the Redskins playing in the same division as the Eagles (favorite to get to the Superbowl in the NFC), the Cowboys and The Giants, I don't think it is unreasonable that they improve and still come in 3rd or last in their division. Their chances at a top pick is still pretty good. I do love the "phenomenally coached" line you give to offset their better than not chance of sucking this year. Still holding a candle for Shanahan I see.

Yes.

And we'd be playing for a championship if Bowlen were.

broncocalijohn
08-21-2011, 10:52 AM
I think they piss fans off more by doing what they are now rather than just trading him though. And it divides the locker room as well.

So you think getting rid of Tebow will divide the locker room? Seems it would be the other way around if they got rid of Orton. If so, care to send us a link?

broncocalijohn
08-21-2011, 10:53 AM
Yes.

And we'd be playing for a championship if Bowlen were.

Only if Shanahan let go of his GM duties, let someone with a defensive brain to find coaches on that side of the ball and let a draft guru do the honors for defense than I think we would have been in the PLAYOFFS in 2010. As for Superbowl, those 3 things needed to happen before he was taking any team to the playoffs let alone a SuperBowl.

CEH
08-21-2011, 10:55 AM
The 49ers took Kaepernick in the 2nd and are trying to act like he's got a real future with them. Besides, if Gore stays healthy and their defense is even halfway respectable they'll be significantly better than us.

Bengals have Dalton, maybe they bail after only a single season but it seems rather unlikely they would.

Redskins are in a good spot to effect a significant improvement in their record, regardless of QB. Doubt they'll be in striking distance for Luck.



Sure. But Seattle won their division in Carrol's first year and added some significant pieces (Sidney Rice, Kevin Boss, Robert Gallery) to the offense. They'll also now have Lynch for a full season and all the young guys they brought in previously get another year of improvement. Couple that with being in the NFC West with six VERY winnable games at a minimum as a result. Not to mention the significant value they've invested in Jackson and Whitehurst. If they aren't one of the absolute worst teams it'd be hard to explain dumping pretty much two season's (2012 and 2013) of draft value into just getting Luck.


It could go either way this year for SEA .
I think the Rams have the best QB in the division and Josh is back where he belongs as a QB, ARI upgraded at QB and SF has better all around talent than SEA. I think SEA could be te worst team this year in the NFCW. Couple that with playing a 1st place schedule it's not hard to project them as a 4 win team

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 10:56 AM
So you think getting rid of Tebow will divide the locker room? Seems it would be the other way around if they got rid of Orton. If so, care to send us a link?

No.. I meant that keeping him and screwing him over divides the locker room. Trading him would end the whole "Tebow thing".

But then again.. what did Brandon Lloyd say? He said either play Tebow or don't..

Right now they aren't...

Is that what is going on? They listened to Brandon Lloyd? lol

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 10:56 AM
Only if Shanahan let go of his GM duties, let someone with a defensive brain to find coaches on that side of the ball and let a draft guru do the honors for defense than I think we would have been in the PLAYOFFS in 2010. As for Superbowl, those 3 things needed to happen before he was taking any team to the playoffs let alone a SuperBowl.

Oh definitely. That makes tons of sense.

Never mind he has a better defensive resume than other HoF coaches:

Bellicheck
Dungy
Fisher

Hamrob
08-21-2011, 10:56 AM
Here is the wild card....the thread that is holding this entire house of cards together:

BRANDON LLOYD

If Lloyd somehow gets injured.....it's over for Orton. Orton is so locked onto Lloyd that if he isn't available when the real bullets start flying....we are in big trouble!

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 11:05 AM
Here is the wild card....the thread that is holding this entire house of cards together:

BRANDON LLOYD

If Lloyd somehow gets injured.....it's over for Orton. Orton is so locked onto Lloyd that if he isn't available when the real bullets start flying....we are in big trouble!

yep, Lloyd sure makes Orton look good...

elsid13
08-21-2011, 11:12 AM
Only if Shanahan let go of his GM duties, let someone with a defensive brain to find coaches on that side of the ball and let a draft guru do the honors for defense than I think we would have been in the PLAYOFFS in 2010. As for Superbowl, those 3 things needed to happen before he was taking any team to the playoffs let alone a SuperBowl.

Shanahan with Bruce Allen and Haslett are doing nice job of rebuilding the skin's defense. They remade their defense line and it looks extremely good early in the preseason. He got that team moving in the right direction.

broncocalijohn
08-21-2011, 11:12 AM
Oh definitely. That makes tons of sense.

Never mind he has a better defensive resume than other HoF coaches:

Bellicheck
Dungy
Fisher

Back in the day. Since he won his superbowls, he thought he was the entitled to the 3 I mentioned when he was failing at that side of the ball. I don't think anyone questioned his offensive schemes or even the fact his drafts weren't problematic on that offense. It was bad on defense and Shanny let his ego get the better of him, it cost him his job. I am sure if he knew what the FO was thinking of his 16-16 record (and I am sure he knew he had to improve), he would have done something less hands on during the 2008 season. He got a reality pie in January of 2009 and is now better for it. Slowick is nowhere to be found. That is one positive.

Shanahan with Bruce Allen and Haslett are doing nice job of rebuilding the skin's defense. They remade their defense line and it looks extremely good early in the preseason. He got that team moving in the right direction.

Time will tell on how much but at least he has a pulse on the defense and letting "experts" do their job. Like I said, I am sure he learned a lot form his firing. One year off helped to re-evaluate his coaching schemes.

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Back in the day. Since he won his superbowls, he thought he was the entitled to the 3 I mentioned when he was failing at that side of the ball. I don't think anyone questioned his offensive schemes or even the fact his drafts weren't problematic on that offense. It was bad on defense and Shanny let his ego get the better of him, it cost him his job. I am sure if he knew what the FO was thinking of his 16-16 record (and I am sure he knew he had to improve), he would have done something less hands on during the 2008 season. He got a reality pie in January of 2009 and is now better for it. Slowick is nowhere to be found. That is one positive

Ridiculous.

The defense was poor because of injuries to some of the BEST players of the decade in Wilson, Pryce and Mobley, and a stacked investment in offense during the Cutler rebuild.

What in his history of coaching makes you think he wouldn't deliver a successful defense given 3 more years of draft picks and free agency?

"Shanahan's average defensive ranking is 11. That's very, very good... especially over a 14 year span.

Then maybe you'll find this interesting. Here's the best defensive head coaches in the NFL (our modern HoF candidates) and their career defensive rankings. Bill Belicek (NE only) comes in at a respectable 14. Tony Dungy (IND only) ties Bill at a solid 14 (edging him with decimals). Jeff Fischer (over that SAME 14 year span) is on the verge of being below average with 16 (might even be below average if you weight the years he coached pre-expansion). For those that might think this comparison is bull **** or skewed: Bill Cowher, on the other hand, proved to be dynamite with a career average of SIX! Also important to note, his best seasons WERE with Dick Lebeau as well, but still strong even without him, and hiring a HoF DC shouldn't be held against him (Disclaimer: I don't approve of a Bill Cowher signing)"

Drek
08-21-2011, 11:24 AM
I disagree with absolutely none of this.

I would add that albeit being vastly improved and phenomenally coached, the Redskins schedule and division MAY put them within striking distance along with Mike's affinity to make a big move, Snyder's love for trading draft picks, and the drought that city's had for a franchise QB.

If Beck/Grossman flounder even a little and they're in striking distance, I think they pull the trigger.... or move on Barkley. Who knows.

I went over their schedule in another thread and I honestly don't think its that bad. Their out of division road games are generally pretty forgiving. Their worst out of division match ups are at home. They've got questions on defense but the DL additions should at least have them playing stout against he run. Shanahan and Turner took two RBs in the draft and seem to like them both, thats a very positive sign. Their OL is going into season two of zone blocking with further maturation. They might be going with a "throw a ton of darts, see what sticks" at WR but its definitely better than what they had last year.

If they hit the ground running and Shanahan's anti-Belichick magic continues to hold up I could see them easily reaching 8-8, possibly quite a bit better.

I bet the Skins finish last in the NFCE. Eagles, Cowboys & the Giants all have a "defense" while the skins have another Shanny mistake. Add in the fact that they are starting Grossman (yes, Shanny has him looking good in the preseason) and I just don't see how anyone thinks the Skins will do well.

I think Shanny's team will very much be in the hunt for Luck come next draft.

The Giants failed to add a single FA of note while watching a starting DT, TE, and WR all walk out the door. That spells trouble for a team that wasn't great in the first place last year.

The Cowboys failed to land any significant CB help and are starting a bunch of young guys on their OL. Their only source for hope is that Garrett's late season offensive surge was legit and that it can withstand a very inexperienced OL.

Hell, even the Eagles have weaknesses, most notably up the middle of their defense. They aren't exactly a great match for the old school Shanahan/Turner/Gibbs zone running attack. If Shanahan and Turner find a gem out of Helu or Royster they could even be a threat to the Eagles early in the year before they gel together.

It could go either way this year for SEA .
I think the Rams have the best QB in the division and Josh is back where he belongs as a QB, ARI upgraded at QB and SF has better all around talent than SEA. I think SEA could be te worst team this year in the NFCW. Couple that with playing a 1st place schedule it's not hard to project them as a 4 win team

Sure, the NFC West is a complete toss up. But that is also why its unlikely any of their teams are absolute cellar dwellers. Seattle made quite possibly the three best FA additions in the division. Zach Miller and Sidney Rice definitely, but Gallery as an OG is a very solid addition. They're also going into year two with Carroll. It'd be surprising if they're so damn bad that they pick in the top 5.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 11:28 AM
The Giants failed to add a single FA of note while watching a starting DT, TE, and WR all walk out the door. That spells trouble for a team that wasn't great in the first place last year.

The Cowboys failed to land any significant CB help and are starting a bunch of young guys on their OL. Their only source for hope is that Garrett's late season offensive surge was legit and that it can withstand a very inexperienced OL.

Hell, even the Eagles have weaknesses, most notably up the middle of their defense. They aren't exactly a great match for the old school Shanahan/Turner/Gibbs zone running attack. If Shanahan and Turner find a gem out of Helu or Royster they could even be a threat to the Eagles early in the year before they gel together.

whatever. You can knit pick the hell out of any team. I still think all three teams are better than the Skins but we shall see...

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 11:38 AM
Aaron Rodgers and Phillip Rivers disgree with you.

John Elway, Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan, Dan Marino, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, etc disagree with you.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 11:41 AM
Tebow is not ready to be thrown into the fire right now. And until he can show he can execute the offense in practice, I don't want him starting. I bet nobody on the entire team and staff wants Tebow starting. Tebow himself would probably say he's not ready to start. I'm sure he wants to play, but I bet he knows he's not ready to start.

So being more productive than Orton as a starter leads you to believe he isn't ready?

I can't follow that logic.

Dedhed
08-21-2011, 11:44 AM
Relax, he'll get another chance next year once he refines his game.

And then if he shows he really can't play, we've missed out on a great QB class and are set back another 3 years. Great plan.

bendog
08-21-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm dead serious. He's not studying for the bar, he's playing a sport.

He spent all last year 'learning'. If he isn't going to get snaps in pre-season games, he's already done here.

apparantly he didn't learn how to take a snap from center. Makes ya wonder about McD ....

peacepipe
08-21-2011, 12:29 PM
Wrong.. he adapted his system to his player.. Brady was not durable and Beli knew how to protect him.. it's that simple. And he continued to do this year after year..

He would tweak his system to Tebow's strengths too. all this stuff about Tebow not being ready is BS.. it's the coaching staff that isn't ready. And therefore its too risky for them to do something out of the norm because they don't know any other way..

niether was bledsoe.

CEH
08-21-2011, 12:32 PM
Sure, the NFC West is a complete toss up. But that is also why its unlikely any of their teams are absolute cellar dwellers. Seattle made quite possibly the three best FA additions in the division. Zach Miller and Sidney Rice definitely, but Gallery as an OG is a very solid addition. They're also going into year two with Carroll. It'd be surprising if they're so damn bad that they pick in the top 5.


In other words

I think if you are a middle of the pack team and you go into 11 or so games with the inferior QB you have a chance to lose 11 or so games

Blueflame
08-21-2011, 12:46 PM
You completely missed the point. THIS coach had already made the decision - Orton was gone. He was tradebait IN JULY. As recently as a month ago Orton was being pushed out the door.

No one has reconciled how the team had six months to make a decision (based on real game tape and internal discussions), MADE THE DECISION, only to have a complete change of direction after a few days of camp. When did watching a guy throw in shorts mean more than actual game tape?

If someone said 'we'd lose the locker room if Orton was on the team and didn't start' - at least that would be reasonable. A bipolar front office simply doesn't give me any optimism. Do you honestly think Fox and Elway just sat on their hands, didn't look at tape, didn't talk to McCoy, and yet put Orton on the block? It makes no sense.

Hey, it's just "my take" on the situation and the only thing that makes any sense to me. Bowing out of this discussion now.....

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 01:10 PM
niether was bledsoe.

Beldsoe was much more durable than Brady.. Brady is one of the most frail players in the NFL. AND the more contact you get on him his play drops exponentially. Much more than other QBs.

Belli being able to protect him is something other coaches can't do.

Heck.. just that alone would help Tebow so much developing as a pocket QB.

Inkana7
08-21-2011, 01:11 PM
Beldsoe was much more durable than Brady.. Brady is one of the most frail players in the NFL.

Huh?

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 01:13 PM
Beldsoe was much more durable than Brady.. Brady is one of the most frail players in the NFL. AND the more contact you get on him his play drops exponentially. Much more than other QBs.

Belli being able to protect him is something other coaches can't do.

Heck.. just that alone would help Tebow so much developing as a pocket QB.

it must be fun living in dreamland... and making stuff up... I too can make stuff up... look! there's a gnome!

Dagmar
08-21-2011, 01:17 PM
it must be fun living in dreamland... and making stuff up... I too can make stuff up... look! there's a gnome!

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/3/39/Gnomes_-_Profit.png

DrFate
08-21-2011, 01:21 PM
I think Fox/Elway will resign Orton. Reward him for a so-so year and then draft a young kid, who will take at least 2yrs to develop.

He wants something close to what Kolb got (6 years/$60 mil) - that was the whole reason he torpedoed the Dolphins deal. No way Denver gives him that. Zero chance.

DrFate
08-21-2011, 01:22 PM
Aaron Rodgers and Phillip Rivers disgree with you.

You realize that making this comparison requires you to compare Orton to Brett Farve and Drew Brees, right?

Inkana7
08-21-2011, 01:23 PM
You realize that making this comparison requires you to compare Orton to Brett Farve and Drew Brees, right?

SD Drew Brees was not NO Drew Brees and 2004 Brett Favre was not 1995 Brett Favre.

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 01:23 PM
...Anyone remember when we had a young franchise QB coming off a pro bowl season and then we ripped the entire ****ing team apart from the top down?

Good times.

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 01:23 PM
it must be fun living in dreamland... and making stuff up... I too can make stuff up... look! there's a gnome!

What did I make up? LOL

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 01:24 PM
SD Drew Brees was not NO Drew Brees and 2004 Brett Favre was not 1995 Brett Favre.

You should check Brees' 04 and 05 Charger seasons again...

DrFate
08-21-2011, 01:25 PM
Tebow could account for about 15-20 TD's if he is primarily used in redzone packages.

I see a zero percent chance of this happening. You can't put all your eggs in the Orton basket and then slap him in the face by pulling him every time you get in the red zone. Never happen.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 01:25 PM
...Anyone remember when we had a young franchise QB coming off a pro bowl season and then we ripped the entire ****ing team apart from the top down?

Good times.

yah, good times... 13-3 with Plummer and a good DC and then drafting a headcase and firing the DC... good times in shannyland...

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 01:28 PM
What did I make up? LOL

gee I dunno. so you do see the gnome? excellent!

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 01:28 PM
I see a zero percent chance of this happening. You can't put all your eggs in the Orton basket and then slap him in the face by pulling him every time you get in the red zone. Never happen.

If Orton doesn't produce in the redzone you could. They give him a chance and if he doesn't convert then he has no one to blame but himself.

Ray Finkle
08-21-2011, 01:28 PM
...Anyone remember when we had a young franchise QB coming off a pro bowl season and then we ripped the entire ****ing team apart from the top down?

Good times.

yeah it was sad to see how they dumped Griese....

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 01:30 PM
gee I dunno. so you do see the gnome? excellent!

You are missing the point. Brady just had abilities that Belli could use to hide his durability issues.. if Bledsoe had those abilities he could have done the same.

I thought that was obvious..

That doesn't mean Brady is more durable than Bledsoe..

DrFate
08-21-2011, 01:32 PM
2004 Brett Favre was not 1995 Brett Favre.

Farve was 10-6 in 2004. If Orton were 10-6 last year, we wouldn't be having this discussion...

Farve also threw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs in '04. And was in the middle of starting 270+ straight games. Comparing Rodgers to Tebow doesn't make a lot of sense.

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 01:33 PM
yah, good times... 13-3 with Plummer and a good DC and then drafting a headcase and firing the DC... good times in shannyland...

You're so cute.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 01:34 PM
You are missing the point. Brady just had abilities that Belli could use to hide his durability issues.. if Bledsoe had those abilities he could have done the same.

I thought that was obvious..

That doesn't mean Brady is more durable than Bledsoe..

I need a link to all the games Brady has missed due to his "durability" issues. Please provide just one link to back up your make believe story. What is obvious is you make crap up to prove your arguments for playing Tebow. We all like Tebow (except for tailgate and a few others) but we also know EFX is trying to do what is best for the team and Tebow.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2011, 01:36 PM
You're so cute.

thanks! I hate to piss on your shanny parade but someone has to do it... I like to put out the rev fires, one post at a time...

TheReverend
08-21-2011, 01:40 PM
thanks! I hate to piss on your shanny parade but someone has to do it... I like to put out the rev fires, one post at a time...

Putting out my fires? With your borderline illiteracy?

Well thank God we fired him, huh?

I mean, now we have a much better coach.

Oh wait.

Well, now we have the QB spot all settled up.

Oh wait.

You've got a "special" vision, that's for sure...

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 01:41 PM
I need a link to all the games Brady has missed due to his "durability" issues.

How many games has Orotn missed due to his durability issues?

Orton and Brady are very similar.. Brady is more extreme in both ways.. he is better at what Orton does and less durable. Belli knew how to get the best out of Brady to hide his weaknesses. But EVEN with Belli's brilliance he has not been able to protect Brady.. Brady isn't getting injured.. but he fetals and just like with orton when you put contact on them they LOSE what makes them decent QBs. This is why people are crazy to play Orton over Tebow.. when he gets hit he becomes a worse player than Tebow.

Maybe if Orton stinks and gets beat up they should put Tebow in for him? Beli could do the same for Brady in playoff games too.

Please provide just one link to back up your make believe story. What is obvious is you make crap up to prove your arguments for playing Tebow. We all like Tebow (except for tailgate and a few others) but we also know EFX is trying to do what is best for the team and Tebow.

Watch the Superbwol with the Giants and the last playoff game. Brady's lack of durability and toughness in the pocket is what allows teams to attack him there.

That offense they run, with him in it, is a regular season offense..

This is NOT something I made up.. it's something I knew before Tebow came along.

DenverBrit
08-21-2011, 01:49 PM
What on Earth is the Plan with Tebow?

Don't you think it's to make him compete for the starting job rather than let his fan club make the decision?
FOX and Elway don't have the 'attachment' to Tebow that McD had, so they are letting his play do the talking. And that includes practice.

They haven't wavered from the 'competition' commitment, unless you count Orton's request to be traded, and we know how that turned out.
What's good for the rest of the team, is good for Tebow too. Competition at every position!

There's nothing wrong with Tebow sitting and learning. When he gets the hang of taking a snap from center, it will be a step in the right direction.
Eventually, he will learn how to go through his progressions.

He still has plenty to learn before anyone knows if he's an NFL QB.

peacepipe
08-21-2011, 01:55 PM
How many games has Orotn missed due to his durability issues?

Orton and Brady are very similar.. Brady is more extreme in both ways.. he is better at what Orton does and less durable. Belli knew how to get the best out of Brady to hide his weaknesses. But EVEN with Belli's brilliance he has not been able to protect Brady.. Brady isn't getting injured.. but he fetals and just like with orton when you put contact on them they LOSE what makes them decent QBs. This is why people are crazy to play Orton over Tebow.. when he gets hit he becomes a worse player than Tebow.

Maybe if Orton stinks and gets beat up they should put Tebow in for him? Beli could do the same for Brady in playoff games too.



Watch the Superbwol with the Giants and the last playoff game. Brady's lack of durability and toughness in the pocket is what allows teams to attack him there.

That offense they run, with him in it, is a regular season offense..

This is NOT something I made up.. it's something I knew before Tebow came along.

bradys 3 SB rings would prove that wrong.

ozomulsion
08-21-2011, 01:57 PM
Watch the Superbwol with the Giants and the last playoff game. Brady;s lack of durability and toughness in the pocket is what allows teams to attack him there.

That offense they run is a regular season offense..

This is NOT something I made up.. it's something I knew before Tebow came along.

I can't believe I'm responding to one of your posts, but referencing a game that Brady got the crap knocked out of him on almost every passing play, yet made it through the entire game shows Brady can take a pounding. You know this though. You'll say something back to try and make me think you don't get what I just said, but you do. I know you do.

Below is a second part to my post. It has nothing to do with what I said about Brady's durability. Above was a comment about how Brady proved he could take a pounding. Below is a question I want you to answer. This is probably way too much for you to handle. Prove me wrong.

Yesterday, you refused to answer why Spurier failed with a PRO team that had Shane Mathews, and Danny Weurful as QBs. I want an explanation to that. An SEC coach with two ELITE SEC QBs. Will you refuse to answer this for a third time? Yes

DenverBrit
08-21-2011, 01:58 PM
How many games has Orotn missed due to his durability issues?

Orton and Brady are very similar.. Brady is more extrem in both ways.. he is better at what Orton does and less durable. Belli knew how to get the best out of Brayd to hide his weaknesses. But EVEN with Belli's brilliance he has not been able to rpotect Brayd.. Brady isn't getting injured.. but he fetals and just like with orton when you put contact on tehm they LOSE what makes them decent Qbs. this is why people are crazy to play Orton over Tebow.. when he gets hit he becomes a worse player than Tebow.

Maybe if Orton stinks and gets beat up they should put Tebow in for him? Beli could do the same for Brady in playoff games too.



Watch the Superbwol with the Giants and the last playoff game. Brady;s lack of durability and toughness in the pocket is what allows teams to attack him there.

That offense they run is a regular season offense..

This is NOT something I made up.. it's something I knew before Tebow came along.

You mean lack of mobility? Brady hasn't missed a game, other than his lost season in 08, and I doubt anyone would have walked away from that Pollard hit unscathed.
Up until then, 111 consecutive starts.....4th best for a QB in NFL history. Hardly the stat of a fragile QB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_starts_by_a_quarterback_%28NFL%29

DrFate
08-21-2011, 01:59 PM
Don't you think it's to make him compete for the starting job rather than let his fan club make the decision?
FOX and Elway don't have the 'attachment' to Tebow that McD had, so they are letting his play do the talking.

How can any player compete for a job without getting chances? Tebo was 5 of 6 in the first game, and rather than get MORE chances after a decent showing, he got 2 attempts last night playing behind camp fodder.

I fully realize Elway and Fox have no personal connecton to Tebow, which is fine. But I find it disingenious to claim there is a competition being held. I simply don't see it.

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 02:00 PM
bradys 3 SB rings would prove that wrong.

That's Belli's defensive genius. Without Belli's great defenses how much has Brady won? He gets beat by Eli Manning.. lol

I think opposing teams realize his weaknesses more and more too.. and how to attack him.

This is why Brady and tebow or even Orton and Tebow could be such great tandems.. if only Orton wasn't a F'ing child and would embrace it..

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 02:04 PM
You mean lack of mobility? Brady hasn't missed a game, other than his lost season in 08, and I doubt anyone would have walked away from that Pollard hit unscathed.
Up until then, 111 consecutive starts.....4th best for a QB in NFL history. Hardly the stat of a fragile QB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_starts_by_a_quarterback_%28NFL%29

But Belli's offense and Brady's abilities hide his weaknesses..

And like I said.. Brayd is FETALING like Orton.. these aren't guys sitting in taking shots to pass down field.

And as I have said.. you don't have to MISS games to have your durability impact you. Brady's PRECISION goes out the window when you hit him. That system he runs with him in it is a regular season system. Which is why it and he are exposed in the playoffs against physical teams.

Also.. like I said.. when I saw Brady in that offense last playoffs I was seeing all these running lanes open in that system. That is why McD wanted Tebow in it.. that is why Cassell looked so good in it even though he is a poor man's Tebow.

DenverBrit
08-21-2011, 02:08 PM
How can any player compete for a job without getting chances? Tebo was 5 of 6 in the first game, and rather than get MORE chances after a decent showing, he got 2 attempts last night playing behind camp fodder.

I fully realize Elway and Fox have no personal connecton to Tebow, which is fine. But I find it disingenious to claim there is a competition being held. I simply don't see it.

The lockout has set Tebow back, no doubt. Brady has made some big strides and looks like a better QB in practice and behind the second team.
I know Tebow fans want to discount TC and practice, Fox doesn't have that luxury.
Maybe he'll get more playing time next week, or certainly, the week after.

I haven't understood the idea that Tebow got to play with scrubs, and somehow that wasn't fair.
Quinn played with them the week before and looked fine.....as he did last night.

DenverBrit
08-21-2011, 02:09 PM
But Belli's offense and Brady's abilities hide his weaknesses..

And like I said.. Brayd is FETALING like Orton.. these aren't guys sitting in taking shots to pass down field.

And as I have said.. you don't have to MISS games to have your durability impact you. Brady's PRECISION goes out the window when you hit him. That system he runs with him in it is a regular season system. Which is why it and he are exposed in the playoffs against physical teams.

Also.. like I said.. when I saw Brady in that offense last playoffs I was seeing all these running lanes open in that system. That is why McD wanted Tebow in it.. that is why Cassell looked so good in it even though he is a poor man's Tebow.

Well he's done a great job, as you seem to be alone in your thinking that Brady is fragile.

MacGruder
08-21-2011, 02:12 PM
I can't believe I'm responding to one of your posts, but referencing a game that Brady got the crap knocked out of him on almost every passing play, yet made it through the entire game shows Brady can take a pounding. You know this though. You'll say something back to try and make me think you don't get what I just said, but you do. I know you do.

Dude.. this should be common knowledge.. taking punishment and staying in game and getting hit doesn't mean you are durable if you LOSE. Staying in and taking hits and still WINNING means you are durable.

Look.. last season they did a segment on ESPN showing how Peyton Manning would get hit on almost every play and STILL deliver the ball perfectly. THAT is durability. What happens with Brady is when he gets hit his game DROPS. it's the same with Orton.. this is the complete opposite of guys like Peyton and Tebow.. THAT is durability.

Guys like Brady and Orton get around this by checking down and getting the ball out fast.. same with Sam Bradford.. Orton just isn't as good at it.


Below is a second part to my post. It has nothing to do with what I said about Brady's durability. Above was a comment about how Brady proved he could take a pounding. Below is a question I want you to answer. This is probably way too much for you to handle. Prove me wrong.

Don't know what you are tlaking about I try to answer everyone replies. I don't remember seeing this comment below though..

Yesterday, you refused to answer why Spurier failed with a PRO team that had Shane Mathews, and Danny Weurful as QBs. I want an explanation to that. An SEC coach with two ELITE SEC QBs. Will you refuse to answer this for a third time? Yes

Dude.. all that stuff about the SEC was a joke.. lol That was never serious.. I was BSing with someone because they were mocking me. I think in Tebow's era the SEC was totally dominant and there is total parity but in Weurful's era there was not this parity in the SEC.

That is why Weurful was overrated like guys in other conferences now that don't have the parity the SEC currently does.

DrFate
08-21-2011, 02:19 PM
The lockout has set Tebow back, no doubt. Brady has made some big strides and looks like a better QB in practice and behind the second team.
I know Tebow fans want to discount TC and practice, Fox doesn't have that luxury.
Maybe he'll get more playing time next week, or certainly, the week after.


The team felt Tebow was ready enough in July when they shopped Orton. (unless their plan was really to start Quinn, which I guess is possible). I'd like to know what changed. As I keep beating the dead horse - the franchise had 3 full games of tape against live NFL defenses and Tebow's pracatice performance from all of last year to base this decision. Based on that info, they decided to ship Orton. Unless the guy who showed up to camp was the evil twin or something, the chain of events confuses me.


I haven't understood the idea that Tebow got to play with scrubs, and somehow that wasn't fair.
Quinn played with them the week before and looked fine.....as he did last night.

It's wasn't merely Tebow playing with the 3's, it was the fact that he got pulled and while he WAS in, he only got 2 pass attempts.

ozomulsion
08-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Dude.. all that stuff about the SEC was a joke.. lol That was never serious.. I was BSing with someone because they were mocking me. I think in Tebow's era the SEC was totally dominant and there is total parity but in Weurful's era there was not this parity in the SEC.

That is why Weurful was overrated like guys in other conferences now that don't have the parity the SEC currently does.

Right on. I didn't know you had admitted the joke. I told everyone that the SEC thing was a joke on your part, during that epic 100+ page thread. The one that fools thought you and Baja were one in the same.

HAT
08-21-2011, 02:25 PM
http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/3/39/Gnomes_-_Profit.png

That's the most well placed .jpg of all time.

REP!

HAT
08-21-2011, 02:29 PM
...Anyone remember when we had a young franchise QB coming off a pro bowl season and then we ripped the entire ****ing team apart from the top down?

Good times.

Griese was not even remotely a "franchise QB".

DenverBrit
08-21-2011, 02:32 PM
The team felt Tebow was ready enough in July when they shopped Orton. (unless their plan was really to start Quinn, which I guess is possible). I'd like to know what changed. As I keep beating the dead horse - the franchise had 3 full games of tape against live NFL defenses and Tebow's pracatice performance from all of last year to base this decision. Based on that info, they decided to ship Orton. Unless the guy who showed up to camp was the evil twin or something, the chain of events confuses me.


Orton apparently requested a trade. Why the trade fell through we may never know.
But as Orton appears happy, as do his teammates, it might be assumed that the FO/HC and Orton worked out their differences. Really, it doesn't matter.

If Tebow were ready, and the players were ready to follow, he would be starting.
But he's not, and he isn't.

At some point, we have to have faith in Fox and Elway's ability to judge who should start the season.

DrFate
08-21-2011, 02:33 PM
Griese was not even remotely a "franchise QB".

Nope

Of course, Griese's career QB rating is nearly 3 points higher than Orton's

:)

DrFate
08-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Orton apparently requested a trade. Why the trade fell through we may never know.

Reports were Orton wanted a big extension from MIA and that killed the deal.


If Tebow were ready, and the players were ready to follow, he would be starting.
But he's not, and he isn't.

He was ready enough for the team to put Orton on the block as recently as July (unless their plan was to actually go with Quinn). I simply don't understand the sudden turnaround.

DenverBrit
08-21-2011, 02:43 PM
Reports were Orton wanted a big extension from MIA and that killed the deal.



He was ready enough for the team to put Orton on the block as recently as July (unless their plan was to actually go with Quinn). I simply don't understand the sudden turnaround.

I doubt that's enough to justify starting Tebow. ;D

HAT
08-21-2011, 02:43 PM
How many games has Orotn missed due to his durability issues?
.

As a Bronco? Technically none.

He started 6-0 as a Bronco with a 9-1 TD/INT ratio and posted a QBR over 100 in 3 of those games....After suffering a dislocated finger that broke the skin in pre-season and playing with a glove.

I know there's no way you'd know this since your "Bronco fandom" began in April 2010.

He should've missed the AZ game last year but Studes didn't have the balls to bench him for the injury until the front office gave the go ahead for Tebow's debut.