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goldengopher1976
08-17-2011, 07:17 PM
I know we're trying to move away from posting entire articles, but since it's an insider article, I thought I'd copy/paste. If I missed a reason not to and this needs to be taken down, please do so.

Ray Finkle
08-17-2011, 07:19 PM
You can't post subscription based articles.

McDman
08-17-2011, 07:28 PM
I hope we use Tebow in the red zone, Orton does not get it done inside the 15.

Mogulseeker
08-17-2011, 07:28 PM
Thats never stopped anyone before, lol.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 07:37 PM
I like how they compare Tim Tebow to Steve Young. How many years did Young sit on the bench learning?

SoCalBronco
08-17-2011, 07:40 PM
Taco has made it quite clear that we are not supposed to post whole articles, much less whole subscription premium articles without a single link. You are creating possible problems for us...so I'm going to remove the entire article from your post. If you want to post your own summary in your own words, that's fine.

Bronx33
08-17-2011, 07:44 PM
I like how they compare Tim Tebow to Steve Young. How many years did Young sit on the bench learning?


God forbid the shyt fairy catches wind of this.

goldengopher1976
08-17-2011, 07:59 PM
Taco has made it quite clear that we are not supposed to post whole articles, much less whole subscription premium articles without a single link. You are creating possible problems for us...so I'm going to remove the entire article from your post. If you want to post your own summary in your own words, that's fine.

Ah, thank you, I thought I remembered that we weren't supposed to, but I didn't know why.

As for a summary:

1. Steve Young was criticized for all the same reasons Tebow is. In fact, some of the critical quotes about Steve Young read almost verbatim like quotes about Tebow.

2. Tebow will never be a prototypical QB, but the framework by which we judge value of QBs fails to account for all the ways Tebow can be successful.

3. The new QB rating that tries to account for relative value and includes rushing yards and TDs illustrates Tebow's potential value when extrapolated over a whole season.

4. To assume that Tebow's style will result in a shorter career or a tail-off in production is potentially erroneous (see Young/Vick).

5. Tebow will likely get better. Vick did. Young did.

6. Doubters are short-sighted and/or committed to an outdated QB model.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 08:03 PM
God forbid the shyt fairy catches wind of this.

I'm shocked he cares what Young has to say. He didn't dominate the SEC.

OBF1
08-17-2011, 08:04 PM
I believe in Tebow

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 08:04 PM
one important thing to keep in mind is this is only tebows 2nd year. nothing wrong with sitting for 2 years and learning to be a better QB. ortons a FA at the end of the year, quinn + tebow shootout next year...

vonqkilla
08-17-2011, 08:05 PM
Reason #6 in the summary is on point.

Mogulseeker
08-17-2011, 08:08 PM
Ah, thank you, I thought I remembered that we weren't supposed to, but I didn't know why.

As for a summary:

1. Steve Young was criticized for all the same reasons Tebow is. In fact, some of the critical quotes about Steve Young read almost verbatim like quotes about Tebow.

2. Tebow will never be a prototypical QB, but the framework by which we judge value of QBs fails to account for all the ways Tebow can be successful.

3. The new QB rating that tries to account for relative value and includes rushing yards and TDs illustrates Tebow's potential value when extrapolated over a whole season.

4. To assume that Tebow's style will result in a shorter career or a tail-off in production is potentially erroneous (see Young/Vick).

5. Tebow will likely get better. Vick did. Young did.

6. Doubters are short-sighted and/or committed to an outdated QB model.

One thing I fell like I should mention about Young and Vick - while they had productive rushing season post-30, they did so after riding on the bench / sitting in prison for a few years no getting pounded.

Another thing... I've made the Young/Tebow comparison MANY times, and that was my first response when we drafted him. Bear in mind Young sat out of a long time and learned from one of the greatest QBs of all time.

Tebow will be good. It might not be till he's 28.

ØrangeÇrush
08-17-2011, 08:55 PM
One thing I fell like I should mention about Young and Vick - while they had productive rushing season post-30, they did so after riding on the bench / sitting in prison for a few years not getting pounded.


Vick might have got pounded in prison....just not on the football field.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-17-2011, 09:02 PM
In before TGN starts throwing his own shiat.

MacGruder
08-17-2011, 09:04 PM
I'm shocked he cares what Young has to say. He didn't dominate the SEC.

Strawman.. you just owned yourself.

MacGruder
08-17-2011, 09:05 PM
Why do people act like Tebow needs to sit when Tebow already outplayed Orton in his three games with no prep..

Are people on drugs?

Mogulseeker
08-17-2011, 09:07 PM
Vick might have got pounded in prison....just not on the football field.

I stand corrected ROFL!

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 09:08 PM
No prep? What was he doing before chilling on a beach somewhere?

MacGruder
08-17-2011, 09:21 PM
No prep? What was he doing before chilling on a beach somewhere?

he had no reps with the starters all season because of king neckbeard.... the legend in his and his homers own minds

BroncoMan4ever
08-17-2011, 10:46 PM
the one thing about Tebow that bothers me, is this offseason he didn't get any coaching. Cam Newton worked with people, Cutler worked on his game. all Tebow did was work on taking snaps from center but never worked on his footwork, throwing motion(even though personally i believe throwing motion is overrated) how to read defenses and go through progressions, how to learn to play from the pocket.

MacGruder
08-17-2011, 10:51 PM
the one thing about Tebow that bothers me, is this offseason he didn't get any coaching. Cam Newton worked with people, Cutler worked on his game. all Tebow did was work on taking snaps from center but never worked on his footwork, throwing motion(even though personally i believe throwing motion is overrated) how to read defenses and go through progressions, how to learn to play from the pocket.

Tebow went and worked with someone immediately after the season ended.. He also has (OWNS! - D-1) his own QB training facility he went to but I don't know if the QBs coaches were there.

If anything it sounds like Tebow may have gone too far changing his game too much.

But he is also a notoriously slow developer early in the season.. but then he dramatically improves quickly. Tebow is a finisher.. a lot of guys like Orton look great early and disappear late.. Tebow is the opposite.

Mogulseeker
08-17-2011, 11:04 PM
Gruden is high on Tebow... maybe he'd come to Denver as a QB coach... then again, I remember Gruden going off early last year about how great McD's oline system was and how our running game was going to explode.

mhgaffney
08-18-2011, 12:27 AM
One thing I fell like I should mention about Young and Vick - while they had productive rushing season post-30, they did so after riding on the bench / sitting in prison for a few years no getting pounded.

Another thing... I've made the Young/Tebow comparison MANY times, and that was my first response when we drafted him. Bear in mind Young sat out of a long time and learned from one of the greatest QBs of all time.

Tebow will be good. It might not be till he's 28.

Tebow has the other greatest QB of all time to learn from. There are only two -- Montana and the other guy.

TheReverend
08-18-2011, 07:25 AM
Gruden is high on Tebow... maybe he'd come to Denver as a QB coach... then again, I remember Gruden going off early last year about how great McD's oline system was and how our running game was going to explode.

........

Hogan11
08-18-2011, 07:29 AM
I believe in Tebow

Yeah, but you're one of them low life Gator fans so you don't count Ha!

j/k D, get your ass back to OMW!

DENVERDUI55
08-18-2011, 07:31 AM
The steve young comparison isn't that good since Young was accurate and raw where Tim is inaccurate and raw.

Hogan11
08-18-2011, 07:37 AM
The steve young comparison isn't that good since Young was accurate and raw where Tim is inaccurate and raw.

The Young comparison works better with Quinn than Tebow...that's if Quinn ever gets a real chance to show what he can do with the first string. Young was left for dead after his stint in Tampa Bay...kinda like Quinn was after his stint in Cleveland. Young got a real second chance in SF....it's very questionable that Quinn will ever get that oppertunity in Denver.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 11:00 AM
The steve young comparison isn't that good since Young was accurate and raw where Tim is inaccurate and raw.

Watch the Sugar bowl and tell me Tebow isn't accurate...

6 of 7 passing in preseason isn't accurate?

He's a hell of a lot more accurate than the number one pick - cam Newton.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 11:02 AM
The steve young comparison isn't that good since Young was accurate and raw where Tim is inaccurate and raw.


"Steve Young just called Tebow "Greatness we are watching"
He basically all but guaranteed Tebow will be great, win a lot of games, and will change the position as we know it. When asked about Tebow his first response was "Tim Tebow is greatness" and if someone builds on the offense we are running with him he would be the only guy to run this "new" scheme and thus become great with his unique skill set whether is running or passing the bowl."

Think of Tebow as the Steve Young for a new and different era..

TailgateNut
08-18-2011, 11:08 AM
MacGruder= the 8-track tape of the OM. Pop it in and it keeps repeating the same old ****.

Dedhed
08-18-2011, 11:09 AM
I like how they compare Tim Tebow to Steve Young. How many years did Young sit on the bench learning?

Too many. What about Elway, Manning, Aikman, Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan?

WolfpackGuy
08-18-2011, 11:09 AM
The only reason Teboz gets compared to Young and Vick is because he's left handed and (not as) mobile.

For one thing, Young and Vick didn't have to be taught how to throw the ball.

Dedhed
08-18-2011, 11:10 AM
MacGruder= the 8-track tape of the OM. Pop it in and it keeps repeating the same old ****.

Yet every one of your posts is a breath of fresh air; full of unique, thoughtful, content.

PRBronco
08-18-2011, 11:11 AM
Tebow has the other greatest QB of all time to learn from. There are only two -- Montana and the other guy.

Two hand touch football legend Kyle Orton?

Dr. Broncenstein
08-18-2011, 11:16 AM
MacGruder= the 8-track tape of the OM. Pop it in and it keeps repeating the same old ****.

http://item.slide.com/r/1/008b/i/6_k-cy_g6D8VScxhs7HEi9p7pYzQYYxG/

An image equivalent of your posts.

TailgateNut
08-18-2011, 11:16 AM
Yet every one of your posts is a breath of fresh air; full of unique, thoughtful, content.


sorry that my dislike of Tebow rubs your vagina in the wrong way.

TailgateNut
08-18-2011, 11:17 AM
http://item.slide.com/r/1/008b/i/6_k-cy_g6D8VScxhs7HEi9p7pYzQYYxG/

An image equivalent of your posts.

Don't you have some ingrown toenails to treat and bedpans to clean

Dr. Broncenstein
08-18-2011, 11:19 AM
Don't you have some ingrown toenails to treat and bedpans to clean

God bless.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 11:22 AM
MacGruder= the 8-track tape of the OM. Pop it in and it keeps repeating the same old ****.

I know you must hate it... that quote refutes your entire delusional stance.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 11:24 AM
The only reason Teboz gets compared to Young and Vick is because he's left handed and (not as) mobile.

For one thing, Young and Vick didn't have to be taught how to throw the ball.

Tebow doesn't need to be taught to throw the ball.. that is a strawman..

He need to be retaught.. because he was able to dominate college more than them with flawed mechanics.

DENVERDUI55
08-18-2011, 11:47 AM
Watch the Sugar bowl and tell me Tebow isn't accurate...

6 of 7 passing in preseason isn't accurate?

He's a hell of a lot more accurate than the number one pick - cam Newton.

I watched with my own eyes last year. What are camp reports saying? Stats are misleading and I don't care what u did in college. He will never be anything without better accuracy.

Couch Surfer
08-18-2011, 12:01 PM
The steve young comparison isn't that good since Young was accurate and raw where Tim is inaccurate and raw.

Steve Young NCAA Completion %: 65.2
Tim Tebow NCAA Completion %: 66.4

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 12:48 PM
I watched with my own eyes last year. What are camp reports saying? Stats are misleading and I don't care what u did in college. He will never be anything without better accuracy.

You are talking about training camp when Tebow was locked out all off season.. AND he is changing everything about the way he played to be more successful layer.

If Tebow wasn't an accurate passer he never would have been successful even running in the SEC.

I think there are just new throws Tebow has to get used to and playing under center.. some of it just takes time because it's all new.. but he will learn it much faster than others will and when he puts it all together.. WATCH OUT.

DENVERDUI55
08-18-2011, 01:44 PM
You are talking about training camp when Tebow was locked out all off season.. AND he is changing everything about the way he played to be more successful layer.

If Tebow wasn't an accurate passer he never would have been successful even running in the SEC.

I think there are just new throws Tebow has to get used to and playing under center.. some of it just takes time because it's all knew.. but he will learn it much faster than others will and when he puts it all together.. WATCH OUT.

So you at least admit he isn't accurate now. College and pro accuracy are two separate things. Throwing to guys without defenders within q10 yds isn't accuracy. What does SEC have to do with accuracy or being good in pros? Are you implying if you are SEC qb you will be a good pro?

Ironlung
08-18-2011, 02:15 PM
MacGruder= the 8-track tape of the OM. Pop it in and it keeps repeating the same old ****.

Irony at its finest!!

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 06:36 PM
So you at least admit he isn't accurate now. College and pro accuracy are two separate things. Throwing to guys without defenders within q10 yds isn't accuracy. What does SEC have to do with accuracy or being good in pros? Are you implying if you are SEC qb you will be a good pro?

Let me expalin it to you..

Tebow has his own way of doing things.. he didn't have to take risks when he played in college because he was so talented. He didn't have to take risks passing the ball other QBs had to. because he could run to win games.. it doesn't mean he COULDN'T pass accurately.. because at times he had to.. What ot means is that he is fighting his instincts.. which makes him inaccurate.

If he is more inaccurate than before it is because he is unused to playing under center and he is trying to improve his mechanics and footwork.

But that is why he needs playing time.. only way that imporves is hetting experience and getting used to the NFL style.

DBroncos4life
08-18-2011, 06:58 PM
Too many. What about Elway, Manning, Aikman, Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan?

The number of bust QBs out way the great ones by a ton so I doubt know why you are even trying here. For everyone of those guys you named there is a Rick Mier, Ryan Leaf, Jeff George and Akili Smith. Also we have Young, McNair, Rodgers, and even Favre that didnt start right away.

errand
08-18-2011, 07:05 PM
Ah, thank you, I thought I remembered that we weren't supposed to, but I didn't know why.

As for a summary:

1. Steve Young was criticized for all the same reasons Tebow is. In fact, some of the critical quotes about Steve Young read almost verbatim like quotes about Tebow.

And the critics were right....Steve did have mechanical issues

2. Tebow will never be a prototypical QB, but the framework by which we judge value of QBs fails to account for all the ways Tebow can be successful.

so far the only thing Tebow does better than Orton or Quinn is RUN when his primary target is covered...Steve Young was a much more polished passer than Tebow is.....Tim still generally starts his elongated wind-up from the hip, and when he's throwing to his right it's generally low and skips to the receiver

3. The new QB rating that tries to account for relative value and includes rushing yards and TDs illustrates Tebow's potential value when extrapolated over a whole season.

Potential = You haven't done **** yet

Tebow scoring 10 rushing TD's and throwing for 15 more nets us no more points than Kyle Orton throwing for 23 and running for 2 does

4. To assume that Tebow's style will result in a shorter career or a tail-off in production is potentially erroneous (see Young/Vick).

...fair enough...but the same can be said for assuming that his style will translate in to numerous wins and championships

5. Tebow will likely get better. Vick did. Young did.

Vince Young didn't, Daunte Culpepper didn't, Andre Ware didn't, JaMarcus Russell didn't, Akili Smith didn't...so what's your point?

6. Doubters are short-sighted and/or committed to an outdated QB model.

Outdated, perhaps....scrambling QB's like Vick and Tebow make the young fans of today oooh and aahhh alot...but their highlight reels have delivered squat when it comes to SB rings....

the outdated likes of Brady, Rapesaburger, the Mannings, Brees and Warner have trumped the scramblers of the past decade and quite frankly you'd be hard pressed to name a scrambling Qb that won a SB (Roger Staubach vs Dolphins and Steve Young vs. Chargers only ones i can recall)....Joe Kapp didn't......Fran Tarkenton didn't.....Steve McNair didn't....Rich Gannon didn't....Donovan McNabb hasn't yet...

hell, even Elway didn't win one until he scrambled less and made more plays from the pocket (his words, not mine)...

so i'll take an outdated proven championship winning model vs the more exciting 2 for 44 scramblers



in bold

Hamrob
08-18-2011, 07:07 PM
The only reason Teboz gets compared to Young and Vick is because he's left handed and (not as) mobile.

For one thing, Young and Vick didn't have to be taught how to throw the ball.Neither does Tebow. He was a 70% completion QB in the SEC! The kid just went 6-7.

It's moronic/ironic, how many a-holes only look at the so-called negatives of the best college football player ever! Truly amazing.

Hamrob
08-18-2011, 07:10 PM
If given the starting job, Tebow would throw for 24+ TD's and run for 10. And do that with 12 or few int's....in only his 2nd season.

But, hell....let's play that Orton guy! Way to drum up excitement for a young, rebuilding club!

Flush Orton already!!!

DBroncos4life
08-18-2011, 07:15 PM
If given the starting job, Tebow would throw for 24+ TD's and run for 10. And do that with 12 or few int's....in only his 2nd season.

But, hell....let's play that Orton guy! Way to drum up excitement for a young, rebuilding club!

Flush Orton already!!!

All on his way to winning the his "might as well be...pretty much is...basically is...rookie of the year".

I'm not sure about the throwing for 24 TDs but the rushing for 10 should be easy for a guy like him.

errand
08-18-2011, 07:19 PM
Neither does Tebow. He was a 70% completion QB in the SEC! The kid just went 6-7.

...Ok, and he's a 50%passer in the NFL. Wow he went 6 of 7? Craig Morton once went 17 of 18 for 304 yards and 4 TD's vs chargers in a regular season game, so what's your point?...guess we'll alert John Elway that he's not the greatest QB in broncos history anymore

It's moronic/ironic, how many a-holes only look at the so-called negatives of the best college football player ever! Truly amazing.

again you clowns keep thinking that success in the SEC and NCAA automatically translates to success in the NFL......

David Klingler set numerous NCAA passing records while at Houston...sucked in the NFL. JaMarcus Russell was a great SEC QB that sucked in the NFL....Matt Leinart was an excellent NCAA QB...and he too sucked in the NFL. Archie Griffin was the only player to win the Heisman trophy twice...and he not only sucked, he ****ing swallowed when he got to the NFL.

DE's and LB's in the NFL are bigger and faster than in the SEC....and smarter too.


in bold

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 07:44 PM
You are comparing college eras and conferences that do not translate to the SEC right now..

How on earth can you possibly take the stance you are and Cam Newton went #1? It makes no sense..

Vince Young was successful in the NFL and he is NOWHERE near the player Tebow was coming out of college.

Take Vince Young's ability on the field and add Tebow's intangibles and leadership.. it's preposterous he is not being allowed to play.

And his team is not building their offense around him at all. It's a travesty. The Broncos brain trust and coaches are completely gutless. This is what happens when you have group think calling the shots.

If any one persons job was on the line they'd be playing Tebow. I bet McD wishes he could go back in time now and played his best player - a real football player not a show pony nag like Orton.

HAT
08-18-2011, 08:42 PM
If given the starting job, Tebow would throw for 24+ TD's and run for 10. And do that with 12 or few int's....in only his 2nd season.

But, hell....let's play that Orton guy! Way to drum up excitement for a young, rebuilding club!

Flush Orton already!!!

I'll take Orton throwing for 25/10 & Tebow rushing for 12 thank you very much. The dude is gonna be nails around the goal line.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 09:04 PM
I'll take Orton throwing for 25/10 & Tebow rushing for 12 thank you very much. The dude is gonna be nails around the goal line.

he could be getting those first downs too...

alkemical
08-18-2011, 09:05 PM
sorry that my dislike of Tebow rubs your vagina in the wrong way.

you got to lick it before you stick it.

ward63
08-18-2011, 10:00 PM
I wish from the 20 to the 20 it was Orton and the red zone was Tebow, but that will never happen.

HAT
08-18-2011, 10:04 PM
he could be getting those first downs too...

He will be. Kid will make everyone forget about Hillis.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 10:16 PM
He will be. Kid will make everyone forget about Hillis.

Tebow won't need to make people forget about Orton.. because he's going to be injured by game 5.

The dude can't fetal away anymore games now and blame the rest of the team for losses. And he is out of rope with all his losses. If he tries to play like a man and win this season rather than fetaling he is going to get injured.

And McD isn't around to scapegoat anymore either.

Orton is going to be the scapegoat when he loses every game now.

That is probably why he demanded a trade. He realizes this. Obviously he didn't realize how much he had overrated himself though.

bigbucks24
08-18-2011, 10:21 PM
You are comparing college eras and conferences that do not translate to the SEC right now..

How on earth can you possibly take the stance you are and Cam Newton went #1? It makes no sense..

Vince Young was successful in the NFL and he is NOWHERE near the player Tebow was coming out of college.

Take Vince Young's ability on the field and add Tebow's intangibles and leadership.. it's preposterous he is not being allowed to play.

And his team is not building their offense around him at all. It's a travesty. The Broncos brain trust and coaches are completely gutless. This is what happens when you have group think calling the shots.

If any one persons job was on the line they'd be playing Tebow. I bet McD wishes he could go back in time now and played his best player - a real football player not a show pony nag like Orton.

Wait. I thought Orton was worth a 1st or 2nd round pick. Now he's a show pony nag? If he is so poor, why don't the Bronco's ship him off for a 3rd or 4th. Bet Randy Starks would look good at DT for the Bronco's now.

MacGruder
08-18-2011, 11:03 PM
Wait. I thought Orton was worth a 1st or 2nd round pick. Now he's a show pony nag? If he is so poor, why don't the Bronco's ship him off for a 3rd or 4th. Bet Randy Starks would look good at DT for the Bronco's now.

Supposedly word is Orton demanded a trade because he said he wouldn't backup Tebow. The Broncos tried to trade him but no one was willing to give ORTON what he wanted financially. It never even got to trade discussions between the team.

db56
08-19-2011, 12:53 AM
Supposedly word is Orton demanded a trade because he said he wouldn't backup Tebow. The Broncos tried to trade him but no one was willing to give ORTON what he wanted financially. It never even got to trade discussions between the team.

I dont doubt it. so this is how it went down;

Broncos, "You wont back up Tebow? we're trading you to Miami, call them"

Boreton, "I called them, they wouldnt give me a new deal so I declined"

Broncos, "ok then, your the starter"

wtf? the opposite of the Cutler fiasco...

MacGruder
08-19-2011, 01:12 AM
I think Orton know they may want Tebow to start.. but the lockout really screwed things up. So I don't think the Broncos mind keeping Orton at least until Tebow gets back up to speed.

Plus I think the Broncos would really liek to get something of value for Orton is possible.

It's hard to know what the Broncos are thinking though considering we con't know how they really feel about Tebow as a prospect. do they even have a consensus or any direction? Or are they just letting things happen? If they have long term plan for Tebow you would think they would want a better mentor in for Tebow that would actually help him.