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Goobzilla
08-16-2011, 06:52 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=AmFOCIqjOnMnyGtyCGi7oX05nYcB?slug=ys-dj_williams_allegations

This Nevin Shapiro case has been fascinating to read about. I don't really blame the kids for taking what is offered to them, but CFB is a dirty, dirty business that needs to be cleaned up ASAP.

Read about other "alleged" payouts to other former Miami players:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/16/hester-wilfork-among-players-named-in-miami-mess/

EDIT: Willis McGahee's allegations as well

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=Av98b5a3swvVmxj06pKwHDlRMuB_?slug=ys-willis_mcgahee_allegations

tsiguy96
08-16-2011, 06:58 PM
before anyone says "just pay the kids!" realize that education is more important than football, and very very few football programs actually profit. you would be paying those 110 players with the money that should be funding the rest of the schools education programs, or would have to increase student fees of every student unfortunate enough to actually have to pay their tuition and room and board etc.

a real solution is time dedicated to football needs to be cut back to allow the students to get part time jobs.

OBF1
08-16-2011, 07:00 PM
Jesus christ... I need sirhcyennek81 opinion here. Does your gaydar go off the screen with that picture of DJ laying on the couch. He has grand marshall at the freedom day gay parade written all over him



Not that there is anything wrong with it.

errand
08-16-2011, 07:05 PM
Such is the price paid when the media hypes rappers/rock stars/reality TV personalities and athletes as role models instead of the teachers doctors and scientists and plain average working stiffs like those of us who paid the bills.

Lev Vyvanse
08-16-2011, 07:10 PM
before anyone says "just pay the kids!" realize that education is more important than football, and very very few football programs actually profit. you would be paying those 110 players with the money that should be funding the rest of the schools education programs, or would have to increase student fees of every student unfortunate enough to actually have to pay their tuition and room and board etc.

a real solution is time dedicated to football needs to be cut back to allow the students to get part time jobs.

Aren't you getting paid to learn about P.E.?

tsiguy96
08-16-2011, 07:12 PM
Such is the price paid when the media hypes rappers/rock stars/reality TV personalities and athletes as role models instead of the teachers doctors and scientists and plain average working stiffs like those of us who paid the bills.

i think thats bound to happen in any culture, but one shocking thing to me is how far from reality so many celebrities are. i reference chris kluwes destruction of nate jackson, he puts it so plainly what an obscene amount of money NFL players make after nate was crying about something. my guess, most athletes dont even realize how much they make compared to the general population (or just straight dont care), or how hard it is to actually make money in real life.

ohiobronco2
08-16-2011, 07:21 PM
Ha ha Willis McGahee Fvck You. Hilarious!

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/30223925

OBF1
08-16-2011, 07:25 PM
Pot....meet kettle

Kettle...meet pot

ohiobronco2
08-16-2011, 07:40 PM
Pot....meet kettle

Kettle...meet pot

Your 2011 NBA CHAMPIONS, The Los Angeles............The Dallas Mavericks. :wave:

Jerry Curl
08-16-2011, 07:47 PM
pay the kids! They seriously have to figure out a way to compensate.

tsiguy96
08-16-2011, 07:50 PM
Aren't you getting paid to learn about P.E.?

seriously?

Lev Vyvanse
08-16-2011, 07:52 PM
seriously?

Isn't that you?

tsiguy96
08-16-2011, 07:55 PM
Isn't that you?

why would i get paid to learn about PE? i get paid and tuition wager to teach an undergraduate class, like tens of thousands of GAs across the country. and it most definitely isnt PE.

Lev Vyvanse
08-16-2011, 08:20 PM
why would i get paid to learn about PE? i get paid and tuition wager to teach an undergraduate class, like tens of thousands of GAs across the country. and it most definitely isnt PE.

What is it that you teach again?

broncocalijohn
08-16-2011, 08:21 PM
Sad day for SoCal but maybe he can spin an excuse for the Hurricane like he does for Mike Shanahan. Anyways, he talked **** on USC so I am curious what he has to say about his college team now.

epicSocialism4tw
08-16-2011, 08:23 PM
before anyone says "just pay the kids!" realize that education is more important than football, and very very few football programs actually profit. you would be paying those 110 players with the money that should be funding the rest of the schools education programs, or would have to increase student fees of every student unfortunate enough to actually have to pay their tuition and room and board etc.

a real solution is time dedicated to football needs to be cut back to allow the students to get part time jobs.

Just pay the kids.

They are performing a service for the university and deserve to be PAID in money...not have their hard-earned work pay for anything else in the university. This isn't communist russia.

theAPAOps5
08-16-2011, 08:25 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313238645.jpg

He had to be talking with a lisp that day.

Garcia Bronco
08-16-2011, 08:43 PM
Sad day for SoCal but maybe he can spin an excuse for the Hurricane like he does for Mike Shanahan. Anyways, he talked **** on USC so I am curious what he has to say about his college team now.

Check the college football thread. He only wished death on one person.

maven
08-16-2011, 08:43 PM
This story is depressing, but I'm not surprised... Life goes on...

Gort
08-16-2011, 09:24 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=AmFOCIqjOnMnyGtyCGi7oX05nYcB?slug=ys-dj_williams_allegations

This Nevin Shapiro case has been fascinating to read about. I don't really blame the kids for taking what is offered to them, but CFB is a dirty, dirty business that needs to be cleaned up ASAP.

Read about other "alleged" payouts to other former Miami players:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/16/hester-wilfork-among-players-named-in-miami-mess/

EDIT: Willis McGahee's allegations as well

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=Av98b5a3swvVmxj06pKwHDlRMuB_?slug=ys-willis_mcgahee_allegations

i am shocked... SHOCKED... that there is corruption at Miami. i would not have expected that from the number 387th ranked university. it's shocking!

let's face it. there are just 3 clean programs. Notre Dame. Penn State. and of course Maryland. everybody else cheats like Oprah on a diet! :)

OBF1
08-16-2011, 09:25 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313238645.jpg

He had to be talking with a lisp that day.

That is the picture... scares the hell out of me. SoCal, Any comments???

SoCalBronco
08-16-2011, 09:31 PM
According to the documents, Shapiro is alleging like 72 different players got some kind of benefits from him. DJ is on the lesser side, but still, a benefit from a booster is still improper. We'll see what other evidence besides photos of jet ski's and such he has. The program is going to take a huge hit, obviously. Hopefully, they double Golden's salary so he stays. As noted above, McGahee (and also Orlando Franklin) are listed.

Archer81
08-16-2011, 09:56 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313238645.jpg

He had to be talking with a lisp that day.


He might be on the DL. Honestly black dudes are hard (no pun intended) for me to read. Short of them being in a princess tutu at a gaybar or saying "I am gay" I have no idea if a black guy is gay or not. It took me 30 years to figure out white gays. That's my demographic.


:Broncos:

cutthemdown
08-16-2011, 11:18 PM
DJ being gay would explain a lot. When he gets locked up with a blockers he seems to like to just stay as close to them as possible. Where a str8 linebacker would try to shed the block and make a play.

Beantown Bronco
08-17-2011, 06:27 AM
Just pay the kids.

They are performing a service for the university and deserve to be PAID in money...not have their hard-earned work pay for anything else in the university. This isn't communist russia.

Sure pay them. Then make them pay for all the coaching and prep they get for the NFL that allows them to make big $ later on. And make them pay for the classes that they "attend."

TheReverend
08-17-2011, 06:39 AM
Sure pay them. Then make them pay for all the coaching and prep they get for the NFL that allows them to make big $ later on. And make them pay for the classes that they "attend."

The NFL should probably pay for that.

If anything, the programs could just take the money they spend on being schills for the NFL during pro-days, for NFL scouts, etc and give that to the kids.

No big time $, but a decent stipend.

oubronco
08-17-2011, 06:45 AM
How the hell did this Shapiro guy get all this money he looks awfully young

Must be inherited

Requiem
08-17-2011, 06:46 AM
Athletes getting paid?

A lot of the good ones get full-ride scholarships or part of their school paid for in some fashion. I think that is payment enough.

Smiling Assassin27
08-17-2011, 07:02 AM
I hope Vilma, DJ, et al are proud of the fact that they may have just contributed substantially to the death of UM football. These players know exactly what they are doing when they do it; let's not call them 'kids' cuz they just ain't.

For guys that live and die UM football, they sure have a funny way of showing it--knowingly accepting ho's, money, and gifts that they've surely been told would deeply injure the coaches they hold dear and the university they SAY they hold dear.

As for paying them, I say no. A guy earning an extra $300 per month stipend is STILL gonna take the gifts and money offered because the temptation is not lessened just because they can go buy a burger now. They get a full ride scholarship which holds big value these days, they get job training for the next level and exposure on TV which is basically a recruitment tool for them. Also, if you pay the footballers, are you gonna pay the backup LAX goalie who's also there on scholarship but really contributes nothing to the revenue of the school? How about the female diver who's in the same boat? Do you pay them differently? If so, you've just given up your mission as an educator and become a full-fledged employer, which gives rise to issues like Title 9 and equal pay for supposedly equal work.

If someone feels enslaved by their university, they are welcome to return to their home or seek out another university. They are not entitled to anything but the best possible education for their effort.

montrose
08-17-2011, 07:06 AM
I wonder if this goes on at every major program - would it really shock anyone?

TheReverend
08-17-2011, 07:07 AM
I hope Vilma, DJ, et al are proud of the fact that they may have just contributed substantially to the death of UM football. These players know exactly what they are doing when they do it; let's not call them 'kids' cuz they just ain't.

For guys that live and die UM football, they sure have a funny way of showing it--knowingly accepting ho's, money, and gifts that they've surely been told would deeply injure the coaches they hold dear and the university they SAY they hold dear.

As for paying them, I say no. A guy earning an extra $300 per month stipend is STILL gonna take the gifts and money offered because the temptation is not lessened just because they can go buy a burger now. They get a full ride scholarship which holds big value these days, they get job training for the next level and exposure on TV which is basically a recruitment tool for them. Also, if you pay the footballers, are you gonna pay the backup LAX goalie who's also there on scholarship but really contributes nothing to the revenue of the school? How about the female diver who's in the same boat? Do you pay them differently? If so, you've just given up your mission as an educator and become a full-fledged employer, which gives rise to issues like Title 9 and equal pay for supposedly equal work.

If someone feels enslaved by their university, they are welcome to return to their home or seek out another university. They are not entitled to anything but the best possible education for their effort.

I understand where you're coming from, but that's kinda why I want the league to be involved as well.

Let's call the NCAA what it is... it's largely a farm league for the NFL. Yes, lots of kids don't make it and need that education they got for free and then there's lower division programs etc.

But I think the NFL should get involved. They should fund a portion. The colleges should pay the kids a stipend, but then they can also raise the punishment... because now the league is involved and if someone is caught doing some dumb **** like this, they can be suspended now. So a 1000 gift can cost them millions later.

Eh, JMO

TheReverend
08-17-2011, 07:08 AM
I wonder if this goes on at every major program - would it really shock anyone?

If anything remotely close happened at PSU, I'd be completely stunned.

It's the reason people say Paterno is "holding PSU back".

He's not. He's keeping it clean.

theAPAOps5
08-17-2011, 07:13 AM
How the hell did this Shapiro guy get all this money he looks awfully young

Must be inherited

Well he is doing 20 years for running a ponzi scheme, so there is your answer.

theAPAOps5
08-17-2011, 07:15 AM
If anything remotely close happened at PSU, I'd be completely stunned.

It's the reason people say Paterno is "holding PSU back".

He's not. He's keeping it clean.

Could be a case of plausible deniability going on with Joe Pa in terms of the university doing it behind his back. But I agree Joe Pa is about as clean as it comes.

I know this happened at CU but the coach was fully aware. especially during my time when slick Rick was running things.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 07:22 AM
NFL should help in that if an agent, or runner for an agent, is caught tampering with college students, he immediately loses his ability to represent NFL players for life. that might do it?

srphoenix
08-17-2011, 07:22 AM
the whole thing about the bounties for injuries on specific players including Tebow was absolutely disgusting. Makes me ticked off that we have 2 players listed in the report.

Smiling Assassin27
08-17-2011, 07:23 AM
I understand where you're coming from, but that's kinda why I want the league to be involved as well.

Let's call the NCAA what it is... it's largely a farm league for the NFL. Yes, lots of kids don't make it and need that education they got for free and then there's lower division programs etc.

But I think the NFL should get involved. They should fund a portion. The colleges should pay the kids a stipend, but then they can also raise the punishment... because now the league is involved and if someone is caught doing some dumb **** like this, they can be suspended now. So a 1000 gift can cost them millions later.

Eh, JMO

Here's the problem that I see with that. The NFL is a business. It's main responsibility is to itself, not to perserving the integrity and eligibility of student athletes. If the NFL get involved and say, suspends someone from the draft or sits them 4 games up front, they have basically made their own league worse. Look at the guys at UM--DJ, Vilma, Sean Taylor, Mcgahee, et al., which is some MAJOR talent. Would the league be better or worse without them, even in the short term? The NFL would basically be shooting itself in the foot and not entirely eliminating the allure of the money that will be offered, is it? Granted, having some consequence to the player is an added risk for him, but is it really the NFL's job to clean this up and what incentive would they have, since these guys funnel into their league anyway?

Beantown Bronco
08-17-2011, 07:24 AM
I wonder if this goes on at every major program - would it really shock anyone?

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that it's not happening everywhere. Hell, even "lowly" D II schools have been caught doing it. The only question is whether or not the coaches know about it. I'm guessing the majority don't know about it and are very vocal in their opposition to it, but the players and alumni, etc are going to do what the players and alumni, etc are going to do regardless of what the coaches say to them. You can't babysit everyone 24 hrs a day.

TheReverend
08-17-2011, 07:26 AM
Could be a case of plausible deniability going on with Joe Pa in terms of the university doing it behind his back. But I agree Joe Pa is about as clean as it comes.

I know this happened at CU but the coach was fully aware. especially during my time when slick Rick was running things.

Any player that even gets in mild trouble at PSU gets kicked off the team regardless of their talent level.

Doesn't get any cleaner :)

Smiling Assassin27
08-17-2011, 07:36 AM
Any player that even gets in mild trouble at PSU gets kicked off the team regardless of their talent level.

Doesn't get any cleaner :)

A funny thing happens to a Penn State player after four years of Paterno's preaching ''us'' not ''me,'' and ''M.B.A.'' not ''NFL.'' They get to sounding like Paterno. The team's famous boring uniforms? ''I hated our uniforms at first,'' says safety Ray Isom. ''Now I think they're beautiful.'' Before last season's Orange Bowl game, Paterno brought out the traditional patch (a tiny orange) for affixing to the team's jerseys. ''Everybody was quiet while Joe held them up to the jerseys,'' remembers Isom. ''Then everybody started saying, 'Nah, nah. Too flashy. Too gaudy.' '' The offending, garish, end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it patches were vetoed. ''After all,'' says defensive tackle Bob White, ''it's not what's on the outside that counts; it's what's on the inside.''

Nobody knows that better than White. As a three-sport star in high school, he was wooed by a dozen major schools. But when Penn State talked to him, Paterno said something outrageous: that he would give White a scholarship if, over the spring and summer, he would agree to read a dozen novels, assigned by Sue, and file a two-page book report every week.

Classic.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/features/si50/states/pennsylvania/flashback/

TheReverend
08-17-2011, 07:38 AM
Classic.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/features/si50/states/pennsylvania/flashback/

It's always 1960 in Happy Valley :)

Crushaholic
08-17-2011, 08:07 AM
If the NCAA started paying college athletes, it would create more havoc. Whatever they get, won't ever be enough...

Beantown Bronco
08-17-2011, 08:20 AM
If the NCAA started paying college athletes, it would create more havoc. Whatever they get, won't ever be enough...

Exactly.

The proponents say that a small stipend should be allowed. It's pretty clear to me that such a solution wouldn't work because these players are not interested in a small amount of money that might get them a few extra meals off campus at cheap chain or fast food restaurants or a few extra moderately priced clothing items. They want to live like they're anticipating living once they reach the NFL and make the big bucks. Just look at the DJ pix and read all the accounts of all these guys who have gotten busted. We're talking houses on the beach, yachts, trips on private jets, expensive jewelry and restaurants with $50 appetizers. A small stipend clearly isn't going to provide these guys with all these things they want before they make it in the NFL. Just say no.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 08:27 AM
Exactly.

The proponents say that a small stipend should be allowed. It's pretty clear to me that such a solution wouldn't work because these players are not interested in a small amount of money that might get them a few extra meals off campus at cheap chain or fast food restaurants or a few extra moderately priced clothing items. They want to live like they're anticipating living once they reach the NFL and make the big bucks. Just look at the DJ pix and read all the accounts of all these guys who have gotten busted. We're talking houses on the beach, yachts, trips on private jets, expensive jewelry and restaurants with $50 appetizers. A small stipend clearly isn't going to provide these guys with all these things they want before they make it in the NFL. Just say no.

the other thing is how do you decide what schools get to give their players a stipend and which dont? most schools are losing money on football programs as it is, so should only those that profit get to give money out? or a list of arbitrary schools based on credentials, what about smaller division 1 programs? and how much is enough to give them to "curb" this behavior? (which as you stated, it absolutely wont).

Pony Boy
08-17-2011, 08:50 AM
I wonder if this goes on at every major program - would it really shock anyone?

Adrian Peterson when at Oklahoma purchased a vehicle from a car dealership before securing financing, drove it for several weeks and then returned the car. Oklahoma investigated the situation, but ruled Peterson did not violate any rules because the dealership said it was normal business practice. This was the same dealership Big Red Sports/Imports in Norman that paid Rhett Bomar for a 40-hour work week ($18,000 a year). They claim he worked about 5 hours a week but said they didn't know what Bomar's job duties were at the dealership.

WolfpackGuy
08-17-2011, 08:56 AM
Free food which is the best on campus, free education, free gear, chicks throwing themselves at you, trips all over the country, etc.

Nah, I don't feel sorry for these guys no matter what their home situation is like.

Pony Boy
08-17-2011, 09:12 AM
I think it would be a good idea to develop a program for college athletes similar to the GI Bill. Let an athlete compete for up to 4 years and not worrying about attending classes and include some compensation. He can then return to the university at the end of his athletic career and concentrate on getting an education. This should carry over to NFL players at the end of their careers also.

gyldenlove
08-17-2011, 09:12 AM
I hope Vilma, DJ, et al are proud of the fact that they may have just contributed substantially to the death of UM football. These players know exactly what they are doing when they do it; let's not call them 'kids' cuz they just ain't.

For guys that live and die UM football, they sure have a funny way of showing it--knowingly accepting ho's, money, and gifts that they've surely been told would deeply injure the coaches they hold dear and the university they SAY they hold dear.

As for paying them, I say no. A guy earning an extra $300 per month stipend is STILL gonna take the gifts and money offered because the temptation is not lessened just because they can go buy a burger now. They get a full ride scholarship which holds big value these days, they get job training for the next level and exposure on TV which is basically a recruitment tool for them. Also, if you pay the footballers, are you gonna pay the backup LAX goalie who's also there on scholarship but really contributes nothing to the revenue of the school? How about the female diver who's in the same boat? Do you pay them differently? If so, you've just given up your mission as an educator and become a full-fledged employer, which gives rise to issues like Title 9 and equal pay for supposedly equal work.

If someone feels enslaved by their university, they are welcome to return to their home or seek out another university. They are not entitled to anything but the best possible education for their effort.

I don't know that the coaches are as innocent as you suppose, if this has been going on long enough that both DJ Williams and Willis Mcgahee and Orlando Franklin has been involved the coaches must have known, a lot of these kids aren't bright and surely one of them would have been incapable of shutting up in the locker room or showing off some bling or talking about a present that was beyond his financial means. I don't know if the coaches have been actively involved in organizing this or if they have just been quietly condoning it, but I really doubt they have been ignorant of it unless it has been deliberately so.

As we have seen with a few other schools the coaches are not necesarily pure as snow, they know that to recruit the best players they may need more than sunshine, girls in tank tops and promises of exposure and if some rich guy wants to sweeten the pot a bit it doesn't hurt. In college recruiting is after all one of the most important aspects and anything that gives you a leg up can mean money in the bank for the coach.

I agree that paying these players is not an option as long as football is being played under the NCAA. If you want to turn the kids pro you need to make a farm league like the AHL.

How many of these kids truly do it for the love? 1%? It is foolish to think that college players love their college that much that they would be willing to turn down gifts and money for the off-chance that they may get caught.

It is the same in the NFL, how many players who supposedly love their team do things downright detrimental to themselves in the team? Most of these guys are like the rest of us, in it for the money.

DENVERDUI55
08-17-2011, 09:55 AM
How the hell did this Shapiro guy get all this money he looks awfully young

Must be inherited

That's what I thought too.

ZONA
08-17-2011, 10:19 AM
Sure pay them. Then make them pay for all the coaching and prep they get for the NFL that allows them to make big $ later on. And make them pay for the classes that they "attend."

Not sure if that was a joke but actually, it sounds like a good idea. For the players who need or want to take a payment for playing football, give it to them. But the condition is that it's a loan and will be paid back to the university. Now I'm not saying pay these kids like Wilfork got paid. None of these kids need 50K, that's only going to get them in trouble.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 10:48 AM
Not sure if that was a joke but actually, it sounds like a good idea. For the players who need or want to take a payment for playing football, give it to them. But the condition is that it's a loan and will be paid back to the university. Now I'm not saying pay these kids like Wilfork got paid. None of these kids need 50K, that's only going to get them in trouble.

really not that bad of an idea. if the players want or need money, make it a no interest loan with a reasonable cap (ie 3k per semester).

gyldenlove
08-17-2011, 11:27 AM
really not that bad of an idea. if the players want or need money, make it a no interest loan with a reasonable cap (ie 3k per semester).

All the players who are not drafted in the top 2 rounds will default on this - there is a reason they can't get loans in other places.

Chris
08-17-2011, 11:29 AM
This is the really messed up part

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font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} </style> <![endif]--> [I]he said his benefits to athletes included but were not limited to cash, prostitutes, entertainment in his multimillion-dollar homes and yacht, paid trips to high-end restaurants and nightclubs, jewelry, bounties for on-field play (including bounties for injuring opposing players), travel and, on one occasion, an abortion.

Houshyamama
08-17-2011, 11:30 AM
It's none of the school's business if these kids take payments from boosters. I'm so sick of this ****.

Pony Boy
08-17-2011, 11:39 AM
When I was in high school if you wore your game jersey to the barber shop you got a free haircut .........:thumbsup:

Rock Chalk
08-17-2011, 01:23 PM
It's none of the school's business if these kids take payments from boosters. I'm so sick of this ****.

Yes it is.

Its against the rules.

Houshyamama
08-17-2011, 01:39 PM
Yes it is.

Its against the rules.

Yeah I get that, I'm saying the rules are ridiculous.

Powderaddict
08-17-2011, 01:48 PM
Corruption in college football?

My perception of reality: shattered.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 01:59 PM
Why not give them more free ****. There are not enough players that feel like everything should be handed to them as it is now

Hercules Rockefeller
08-17-2011, 02:21 PM
You want to kill college sports? Pay the football players. Too many people look at this as just a football issue.

So few schools have athletic programs that are actually in the black as it is, and even fewer are in the black to a significant amount. You're going to see schools either drop their athletic programs entirely, or you're going to see a football program and enough women's teams to ensure Title IX compliance, and that's it.

Goobzilla
08-17-2011, 03:19 PM
Here's the good news: in a year from now it will be legal to provide bagel spreads to student athletes.

http://deadspin.com/5831960/ncaa-takes-a-good-long-look-at-its-rules-decides-to-maybe-allow-student+athletes-to-put-spread-on-their-bagel

Seriously? Blow up the NCAA and start over.

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Sure pay them. Then make them pay for all the coaching and prep they get for the NFL that allows them to make big $ later on. And make them pay for the classes that they "attend."

Let the colleges bargain to determine those things.

This aint the dadgum USSR.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 03:28 PM
A friend of mine had an interesting idea in this regard...What someone needs to do is create college-level sports academies to act as competition for the college level talent. Let's see someone with Trump or Gates type money do away with NCAA affiliation and create a 12 "school" league for high school graduates that not only pays players a moderate salary, but requires courses like money and time management, press and fan-centered public speaking, sports medicine and nutrition, and other classes geared towards those who want to make it in the NFL.

Would likely never happen given the investment needed, but if it did I'm sure it would create a crop of players more knowledgeable of what to do with their new found money, as well as being able to operate outside the confines of the archaic NCAA rules and regulations.

If I were 18 and had my eyes on the NFL, which would I be more likely to choose?

-- 3-4 years at a top college school where I could only practice during the allowed times, had to take (read: "show up for") classes I had absolutely no interest in, was able to barely scrape by on the scholarship and stipend money I received

-- 3-4 years making a decent salary (say $50,000 a year?), living, eating, breathing and sleeping football, and taking classes that would actually help me in a career



Let's be honest, guys. Have you actually heard the average NFL player talk? "If it wuh nuh fo' fuhball I wuh nuh be playin fuhball righ' nah." Who really believes they're paying attention in English class to begin with?

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 03:28 PM
You want to kill college sports? Pay the football players. Too many people look at this as just a football issue.

So few schools have athletic programs that are actually in the black as it is, and even fewer are in the black to a significant amount. You're going to see schools either drop their athletic programs entirely, or you're going to see a football program and enough women's teams to ensure Title IX compliance, and that's it.

people dont realize that college football is not the financial windfall that they think it is. the price of college head coaches is incredible too.

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 03:28 PM
You want to kill college sports? Pay the football players. Too many people look at this as just a football issue.

So few schools have athletic programs that are actually in the black as it is, and even fewer are in the black to a significant amount. You're going to see schools either drop their athletic programs entirely, or you're going to see a football program and enough women's teams to ensure Title IX compliance, and that's it.

You sound like a southern lawyer trying to justify slave labor in the early 1800's.

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 03:30 PM
A friend of mine had an interesting idea in this regard...What someone needs to do is create college-level sports academies to act as competition for the college level talent. Let's see someone with Trump or Gates type money do away with NCAA affiliation and create a 12 "school" league for high school graduates that not only pays players a moderate salary, but requires courses like money and time management, press and fan-centered public speaking, sports medicine and nutrition, and other classes geared towards those who want to make it in the NFL.

Would likely never happen given the investment needed, but if it did I'm sure it would create a crop of players more knowledgeable of what to do with their new found money, as well as being able to operate outside the confines of the archaic NCAA rules and regulations.

If I were 18 and had my eyes on the NFL, which would I be more likely to choose?

-- 3-4 years at a top college school where I could only practice during the allowed times, had to take (read: "show up for") classes I had absolutely no interest in, was able to barely scrape by on the scholarship and stipend money I received

-- 3-4 years making a decent salary (say $50,000 a year?), living, eating, breathing and sleeping football, and taking classes that would actually help me in a career



Let's be honest, guys. Have you actually heard the average NFL player talk? "If it wuh nuh fo' fuhball I wuh nuh be playin fuhball righ' nah." Who really believes they're paying attention in English class to begin with?

Why do we force these guys to take classes anyhow?

Rock Chalk
08-17-2011, 03:31 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313238645.jpg

He had to be talking with a lisp that day.

Completely and totally Chris Kenney in that pic.

DENVERDUI55
08-17-2011, 04:08 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313238645.jpg

He had to be talking with a lisp that day.

Wow that is a very gay picture. Now I wonder if he was getting male or female hookers at the U?

TheReverend
08-17-2011, 04:52 PM
Wow that is a very gay picture. Now I wonder if he was getting male or female hookers at the U?

Just him and Vilma going after it.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 05:08 PM
people dont realize that college football is not the financial windfall that they think it is. the price of college head coaches is incredible too.

Nebaskas football program is worth over 100 million dollars. Bo makes less then two million and he is the 25th highest paid coach.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 05:28 PM
Nebaskas football program is worth over 100 million dollars. Bo makes less then two million and he is the 25th highest paid coach.

Yeah I would like to see some stat-tastics to back up some of the claims that most football programs aren't solvent. From what I've always read and heard, most athletic programs are in the red, and it's football that keeps everything else afloat, and there's still plenty of money left over.

I have a hard time believing that's not the case.

cutthemdown
08-17-2011, 05:41 PM
I wonder if this goes on at every major program - would it really shock anyone?

Only the winning ones.

cutthemdown
08-17-2011, 05:42 PM
Pay them, but then obviously you get no scholarship so you will have to pay for your schooling.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 05:44 PM
Yeah I would like to see some stat-tastics to back up some of the claims that most football programs aren't solvent. From what I've always read and heard, most athletic programs are in the red, and it's football that keeps everything else afloat, and there's still plenty of money left over.

I have a hard time believing that's not the case.

Just google forbes top college football programs. The Irish give 30 million dollars from what it football program makes towards its academics

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 05:45 PM
Nebaskas football program is worth over 100 million dollars. Bo makes less then two million and he is the 25th highest paid coach.

guess i am stretching it when i say all football loses money, but a lot of schools lose money especially ones like my undergrad (WIU) and others. other schools use the money from football to fund other sports which is great as well, because the track team isnt really bringing in a profit anywhere.

the one thing this comes down to when it comes to paying players though, with the schools that are NOT making money, where does the money come from that they should pay their players with? you cant take it from education and you cant make the rest of the students pay for it.

and i hate when people say a free education isnt enough, it absolutely is. leaving school without college loans gives people such a huge advantage in life, im gonna have loans for 10-15 years because i didnt get a free ride. what should change is the students ability to work jobs or whatever else to make money, or provide no interest loans to a degree.

one link that gets more specific into what loses money in college football, and roughly which programs:
http://aspatula.blogspot.com/2008/05/idiocy-of-funding-college-football.html

Rock Chalk
08-17-2011, 06:02 PM
Nebaskas football program is worth over 100 million dollars. Bo makes less then two million and he is the 25th highest paid coach.

Nebraska's football program does NOT make 100 million dollars and is not WORTH 100 million dollars (per annum)

#1 Texas $138,459,149
#12 Oklahoma $81,487,835
#18 Nebraska $74,881,383
#22 Texas A&M $72,886,100
#24 Oklahoma State $71,805,82
#26 Kansas $70,614,953
#42 Missouri $57,778,668
#55 Kansas State $47,399,903
#56 Texas Tech $46,632,263
#60 Iowa State $45,813,189

CU and Baylor didnt make top 64 college money.

Even with Big 10 Money, Nebraska jumps up to 84 million or so. OU with the departure of CU and Nebraska jumps up to over 100 million a year.

There are about 10 schools that make 100 million+ per year in their ENTIRE athletic department.

As for profit, this is what the CURRENT big 12 members made in 2009-2010
Texas $29,603,034.00
Kansas $11,687,378.00
Kansas State $11,099,094.00
Oklahoma $10,121,904.00
Oklahoma State $5,402,887.00
Texas Tech $4,898,394.00
Texas A&m $2,675,650.00
Missouri $2,505,575.00
Iowa State $215,540.00
Baylor $0.00

Nebraska ranked 5th and CU ranked 10th.

So tell me how again Nebraska football is worth 100 million dollars?

crush17
08-17-2011, 06:05 PM
Good night Miami football program.

Rock Chalk
08-17-2011, 06:13 PM
BTW THose numbers above are from the entire athletic department, not just football.

Texas football which is the #1 money making football program in the country made $87,583,986 in 2008-2009 which was their best year and the best year of ANY Football team EVER they were STILL 12.5 million short of being worth 100 million.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 06:18 PM
Nebraska's football program does NOT make 100 million dollars and is not WORTH 100 million dollars (per annum)

#1 Texas $138,459,149
#12 Oklahoma $81,487,835
#18 Nebraska $74,881,383
#22 Texas A&M $72,886,100
#24 Oklahoma State $71,805,82
#26 Kansas $70,614,953
#42 Missouri $57,778,668
#55 Kansas State $47,399,903
#56 Texas Tech $46,632,263
#60 Iowa State $45,813,189

CU and Baylor didnt make top 64 college money.

Even with Big 10 Money, Nebraska jumps up to 84 million or so. OU with the departure of CU and Nebraska jumps up to over 100 million a year.

There are about 10 schools that make 100 million+ per year in their ENTIRE athletic department.

As for profit, this is what the CURRENT big 12 members made in 2009-2010
Texas $29,603,034.00
Kansas $11,687,378.00
Kansas State $11,099,094.00
Oklahoma $10,121,904.00
Oklahoma State $5,402,887.00
Texas Tech $4,898,394.00
Texas A&m $2,675,650.00
Missouri $2,505,575.00
Iowa State $215,540.00
Baylor $0.00

Nebraska ranked 5th and CU ranked 10th.

So tell me how again Nebraska football is worth 100 million dollars?

What list are you going by and NU will be making more money in the Big 10 then it was in the Big 12.

http://www.businesspundit.com/the-12-most-valuable-teams-in-ncaa-football/

At first glance, it probably seems strange to see a Nebraska team rank so high on this list. A state which sells t-shirts that proudly exclaim “Nebraska – We Got Nothin” doesn’t exactly smack of athletic excellence or acclaim. However, the Cornhuskers are actually the fourth most valuable college football team in America, turning a $49 million profit on a $93 million total value. Loyalty is also alive and well at the school. According to Forbes, “donations required by Nebraska for season ticket holders to keep their seats totaled $15 million last season.” Head coach Bo Pelini is the 25th highest paid coach in college football, earning just a shade over $1.8 million per season.

TheReverend
08-17-2011, 06:22 PM
What list are you going by and NU will be making more money in the Big 10 then it was in the Big 12.

http://www.businesspundit.com/the-12-most-valuable-teams-in-ncaa-football/

At first glance, it probably seems strange to see a Nebraska team rank so high on this list. A state which sells t-shirts that proudly exclaim “Nebraska – We Got Nothin” doesn’t exactly smack of athletic excellence or acclaim. However, the Cornhuskers are actually the fourth most valuable college football team in America, turning a $49 million profit on a $93 million total value. Loyalty is also alive and well at the school. According to Forbes, “donations required by Nebraska for season ticket holders to keep their seats totaled $15 million last season.” Head coach Bo Pelini is the 25th highest paid coach in college football, earning just a shade over $1.8 million per season.

U mad we're worth more?

http://www.athletics.psu.edu/recreation/lionlogo.jpg

It's because we pay JoePa in athritis medication.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 06:28 PM
U mad we're worth more?

http://www.athletics.psu.edu/recreation/lionlogo.jpg

It's because we pay JoePa in athritis medication.

You won't after we get some of that Big10 money :)

Rock Chalk
08-17-2011, 06:33 PM
What list are you going by and NU will be making more money in the Big 10 then it was in the Big 12.

http://www.businesspundit.com/the-12-most-valuable-teams-in-ncaa-football/

At first glance, it probably seems strange to see a Nebraska team rank so high on this list. A state which sells t-shirts that proudly exclaim “Nebraska – We Got Nothin” doesn’t exactly smack of athletic excellence or acclaim. However, the Cornhuskers are actually the fourth most valuable college football team in America, turning a $49 million profit on a $93 million total value. Loyalty is also alive and well at the school. According to Forbes, “donations required by Nebraska for season ticket holders to keep their seats totaled $15 million last season.” Head coach Bo Pelini is the 25th highest paid coach in college football, earning just a shade over $1.8 million per season.

The figures were from a year before and I wasn't arguing th epoint of Nebraska atheltics, I was arguing the point of NEBRASKA FOOTBALL being worht 100 million which it isnt even close EVEN with Big 10 money.

Edit: Also Im not sure how they come by that number. Nebraska football being worth 93 million dollars when they didnt report having made that much money in the year they are claiming.

Look, Im not disparaging Nebraska football, its a great program with a great tradition (that, btw, owes its worse beating ever to Kansas Football :P) but you are suggesting and, erroneously I might add, that Nebraska football is worth 100 million and I dispute that.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 06:36 PM
The figures were from a year before and I wasn't arguing th epoint of Nebraska atheltics, I was arguing the point of NEBRASKA FOOTBALL being worht 100 million which it isnt even close EVEN with Big 10 money.

That is the football programs worth not the athletic department.

Rock Chalk
08-17-2011, 06:38 PM
That is the football programs worth not the athletic department.

Again, I cannot express enough how wrong that figure HAS to be.

Since Nebraska as a university has NEVER made 93 million dollars in a single year, how can it be worth that much? How is that number accurate?

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 06:43 PM
Again, I cannot express enough how wrong that figure HAS to be.

Since Nebraska as a university has NEVER made 93 million dollars in a single year, how can it be worth that much? How is that number accurate?

Boosters and donations by alumni.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 06:45 PM
Again, I cannot express enough how wrong that figure HAS to be.

Since Nebraska as a university has NEVER made 93 million dollars in a single year, how can it be worth that much? How is that number accurate?

1) You guys are getting off the current topic, which is that most D1 football programs make a ton of money. Whether it's $100 million or $50 million, they can afford to pay the players. Whether they should or not is another question, but I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't put most programs out of business.

2) Would it really be the end of the world if WIU didn't have a pays-the-players football program? Why not separate the universities into the "Can-Afford-to-Pay-Players" and "Cannot-Afford-to-Pay-Players" divisions instead of FBS and FCS (although I'm sure the field will look fairly similar).

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 06:48 PM
http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/most-vaulable-college-football-teams-business-sports-college-football_slide_5.html?partner=yahoosports

This shows that NU was 18th like you suggested but we jumped back into the top 5. I can see how NU would drop when it wasn't winning.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 06:51 PM
1) You guys are getting off the current topic, which is that most D1 football programs make a ton of money. Whether it's $100 million or $50 million, they can afford to pay the players. Whether they should or not is another question, but I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't put most programs out of business.

2) Would it really be the end of the world if WIU didn't have a pays-the-players football program? Why not separate the universities into the "Can-Afford-to-Pay-Players" and "Cannot-Afford-to-Pay-Players" divisions instead of FBS and FCS (although I'm sure the field will look fairly similar).

Paying players will ruin the game. It's hard enough getting kids to pick Nebraska over any other damn place in the USA with a free college ride.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 06:57 PM
1) You guys are getting off the current topic, which is that most D1 football programs make a ton of money. Whether it's $100 million or $50 million, they can afford to pay the players. Whether they should or not is another question, but I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't put most programs out of business.

2) Would it really be the end of the world if WIU didn't have a pays-the-players football program? Why not separate the universities into the "Can-Afford-to-Pay-Players" and "Cannot-Afford-to-Pay-Players" divisions instead of FBS and FCS (although I'm sure the field will look fairly similar).

so two division 1 football programs should be on different rules and terms, based on if they can afford to pay their players? how is that fair to anyone involved, and what if a school makes extra money one year and goes in the black, do they just moved to the paid programs?

schools dont profit 50 or 100 million, thats the point. and if they did, that money should be spent on the actual university, the players get an interview for the NFL by playing and a free education out of the process, thats not exactly stiffing the players.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 07:03 PM
Paying players will ruin the game. It's hard enough getting kids to pick Nebraska over any other damn place in the USA with a free college ride.

Not if you make it a simple scaled system. First year players make X (regardless of school) depending on position, and get an additional bonus for each game they start. The wage goes up for each year they play.

Any improper benefits and the school gets an automatic 2 year bowl ban and 10 year probation. Any additional violation results in the death penalty. A simple message from the NCAA to say to the players "Okay, you want to get paid, no problem, but you still play for us."

If your concern is that no one will come to Nebraska if the playing field is even monetarily, well...it's not Miami's fault their campus is near the beach and has hot girls and Nebraska's isn't.

DBroncos4life
08-17-2011, 07:06 PM
Not if you make it a simple scaled system. First year players make X (regardless of school) depending on position, and get an additional bonus for each game they start. The wage goes up for each year they play.

Any improper benefits and the school gets an automatic 2 year bowl ban and 10 year probation. Any additional violation results in the death penalty. A simple message from the NCAA to say to the players "Okay, you want to get paid, no problem, but you still play for us."

If your concern is that no one will come to Nebraska if the playing field is even monetarily, well...it's not Miami's fault their campus is near the beach and has hot girls and Nebraska's isn't.
By all accounts Miami is already paying its players and has less wins to show for it.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 07:15 PM
Responses in bold.

so two division 1 football programs should be on different rules and terms, based on if they can afford to pay their players? how is that fair to anyone involved,

What determines if a school is Division I in the first place? I honestly don't know off the top of my head, and don't have the time to look it up.

and what if a school makes extra money one year and goes in the black, do they just moved to the paid programs?

Why not? The English soccer leagues do it on a yearly basis based on performance.

schools dont profit 50 or 100 million, thats the point. and if they did, that money should be spent on the actual university, the players get an interview for the NFL by playing and a free education out of the process, thats not exactly stiffing the players.

It's a free-market economy, and they're entitled to whatever they can bargain for, IMO. If you add up all the money that colleges make because of the players, I'm sure it dwarfs the amount of money players eventually make because of the college, even if you add in the money that some make because they got their degree. That's not including the collusion between colleges and video game manufacturers, who pay universities and the NCAA for the rights to use their logos, etc. but do not pay the players for the use of their likenesses. Are you seriously telling me that the 6'4" 235lb "QB #12" for Stanford isn't Andrew Luck?

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 07:19 PM
it is in fact a free market economy, and the schools are allowed to make as much money as they can. that does not mean that they can pay the players involved in the process and still be considered an NCAA team. why dont NFL teams break the salary cap, its a free market right?

a better question is, why is the NCAA currently geared towards allowing the same 30 schools a chance at a national title, thus allowing those schools to get all the top tier talent. if every division 1 school was on a level playing field from the start, you may see more teams with more talent, instead of a few with all of it. the players get free room and board and a free education, and only the people who didnt have to pay for their school are the ones who say that isnt enough.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 07:30 PM
Bold.

it is in fact a free market economy, and the schools are allowed to make as much money as they can. that does not mean that they can pay the players involved in the process and still be considered an NCAA team. why dont NFL teams break the salary cap, its a free market right?

My point was that the NCAA should relax (or get rid of entirely) the don't-pay-players policy, not that the schools should circumvent the NCAA controls. I should have been more specific than saying "they're"...I believe the players have a right to get as much money as they can bargain for. If they could unionize and go on strike, that would be the downfall of the current system. Scab players would ruin NCAA football far more than paying good players would, IMO. Unfortunately it'll never happen because of the NFL cookie dangling in front of them...no one would want to risk sitting out a year or more and jeopardizing their NFL hopes.

a better question is, why is the NCAA currently geared towards allowing the same 30 schools a chance at a national title, thus allowing those schools to get all the top tier talent. if every division 1 school was on a level playing field from the start, you may see more teams with more talent, instead of a few with all of it. the players get free room and board and a free education, and only the people who didnt have to pay for their school are the ones who say that isnt enough.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I have tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, and I say paying the players what they're worth (whatever that may be...my stance is it's more monetarily than room/board/education) is the way to go, and I think you would be surprised at how many people feel the same way, especially when you factor in ancillaries like video game likenesses and residual fan-dom.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 07:40 PM
so you are saying that instead of giving the money back to the university or paying for the rest of the sports that DONT profit, they should pay the players?

there simply isnt enough money there for that, not to mention inequality from university to university. if texas was paying 6x what auburn was, no one would ever go to auburn. thats exactly what would happen too. the players are getting paid what they are worth, which is a free education and an opportunity to improve their game and a chance at the next level. you pay professional athletes, not students.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 07:46 PM
so you are saying that instead of giving the money back to the university or paying for the rest of the sports that DONT profit, they should pay the players?

there simply isnt enough money there for that, not to mention inequality from university to university. if texas was paying 6x what auburn was, no one would ever go to auburn. thats exactly what would happen too. the players are getting paid what they are worth, which is a free education and an opportunity to improve their game and a chance at the next level. you pay professional athletes, not students.

I'm not going to be like some other posters and ask you if you have reading comprehension problems, but as I stated above, if you could implement a system in which players were paid X no matter where they went, you would have no disparity between schools that could afford it.

I would also be willing to bet that every school that has played in a BCS bowl in the past 10 years makes enough money to pay their players a reasonable salary over and above their tuition (NOT millions of dollars, but say $50,000 a year for top tier players), while still having enough money to give back to the university without hurting it financially. See, the system is already unbalanced.

Better yet, while implementing such a system, why not force the boosters to give the money they already spend on the athletes back to the schools? Hilarious!

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 07:49 PM
I'm not going to be like some other posters and ask you if you have reading comprehension problems, but as I stated above, if you could implement a system in which players were paid X no matter where they went, you would have no disparity between schools that could afford it.

I would also be willing to bet that every school that has played in a BCS bowl in the past 10 years makes enough money to pay their players a reasonable salary over and above their tuition (NOT millions of dollars, but say $50,000 a year for top tier players), while still having enough money to give back to the university without hurting it financially. See, the system is already unbalanced.

Better yet, while implementing such a system, why not force the boosters to give the money they already spend on the athletes back to the schools? Hilarious!

the problem is youre argument doesnt make sense, IF they can afford it by what standards? what if that changes on a yearly basis? now you are arguing for paying only the top tier players on certain teams, so not only will each team be able to pay their players a different amount, the players on each team will be paid differently too? why not just have a high school draft?

what you are basically asking for is the NCAA to completely drop any rules relating to payments of players and let universities do as they wish. forget the money used to fund academic programs or other sports within the university, pay these football players as much as possible! they need it damnit, a free college education just isnt enough.

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 07:52 PM
so you are saying that instead of giving the money back to the university or paying for the rest of the sports that DONT profit, they should pay the players?

there simply isnt enough money there for that, not to mention inequality from university to university. if texas was paying 6x what auburn was, no one would ever go to auburn. thats exactly what would happen too. the players are getting paid what they are worth, which is a free education and an opportunity to improve their game and a chance at the next level. you pay professional athletes, not students.

It absolutely does not matter one iota that some universities would be priced out. Thats what boosters are for. Let them pay players legally. Let them put together a package that is competitive. Just like when an employer bids for an employee.

It isn't the fault of young black male athletes that middle class white people think they need an "education".

Let those athletes earn what they can earn, and let them do with their money what they wish...whether that includes paying for tuition or not.

Its not the business of young football athletes to maintain the overhead for an athletics department. Its downright criminal that we have allowed the University system to take such advantage of those kids.

Its the plantation mentality on display.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 07:56 PM
the problem is youre argument doesnt make sense, IF they can afford it by what standards? what if that changes on a yearly basis? now you are arguing for paying only the top tier players on certain teams, so not only will each team be able to pay their players a different amount, the players on each team will be paid differently too? why not just have a high school draft?

what you are basically asking for is the NCAA to completely drop any rules relating to payments of players and let universities do as they wish. forget the money used to fund academic programs or other sports within the university, pay these football players as much as possible! they need it damnit, a free college education just isnt enough.

I'm not going to type it out, but I'll instead make it simpler. Institute a salary cap for the NCAA. You must pay your players $1 million dollars (or whatever the NCAA deems appropriate) to be spread as the university wishes, no more, no less. If you can't afford it, you're relegated to the lower division.

I'm not trying to turn this into a personal attack or anything, but there sure seems to be a lot of vitriol in your tone...are you sure you're not just jealous of athletes who got a free ride?

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 07:57 PM
It absolutely does not matter one iota that some universities would be priced out. Thats what boosters are for. Let them pay players legally. Let them put together a package that is competitive. Just like when an employer bids for an employee.

It isn't the fault of young black male athletes that middle class white people think they need an "education".

Let those athletes earn what they can earn, and let them do with their money what they wish...whether that includes paying for tuition or not.

Its not the business of young football athletes to maintain the overhead for an athletics department. Its downright criminal that we have allowed the University system to take such advantage of those kids.

Its the plantation mentality on display.

if taking advantage of students means giving them a free education, coaching and a chance to be a professional in sports later on, then what exactly is it called when you have to pay for your own education?

criminal, really? the business of young STUDENTS who play football is to pass their classes and then play football.

you sound like AP, comparing NFL players to slavery by NFL owners.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm not going to type it out, but I'll instead make it simpler. Institute a salary cap for the NCAA. You must pay your players $1 million dollars (or whatever the NCAA deems appropriate) to be spread as the university wishes, no more, no less. If you can't afford it, you're relegated to the lower division.

I'm not trying to turn this into a personal attack or anything, but there sure seems to be a lot of vitriol in your tone...are you sure you're not just jealous of athletes who got a free ride?

im not jealous at all, i knowingly took loans out to get my education, and there is a good chance my career will be based on helping high school kids get a chance at a free college education (most private S+C facilities are based around this potential), so im all for academic scholarships. i think its ridiculous that people wish to downgrade the academic portion of college just because these kids play a sport, and wish to take money that would otherwise go towards academics or other sports and just hand it out to one specific team that encompasses 25% or less of a schools total athletic base. they are students first, and i think college football fans seem to forget that.

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 08:07 PM
if taking advantage of students means giving them a free education, coaching and a chance to be a professional in sports later on, then what exactly is it called when you have to pay for your own education?

criminal, really? the business of young STUDENTS who play football is to pass their classes and then play football.

you sound like AP, comparing NFL players to slavery by NFL owners.

Yeah, young black athletes (a majority of DI college football athletes) are forced to be paid in imaginary money: tuition, which costs the university NOTHING, room and board, which costs the university NOTHING but utility costs, and "opportunity"...by opportunity they mean not allowing you to earn your own income or to take advantage of the financial opportunities available to athletes.

A spot in a lecture hall and a room in a dorm doesn't cost the university anything. The opportunity provided by college football in terms of transitioning to the pros could be provided in a much more effective, efficient way by private training.

The NCAA is a monopoly and a scam perpetrated by the same kinds of good ol' boy networks that maintained the sharecropping scams. Its just that ivory tower elitists like the NCAA are so good at lying to us about it.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 08:09 PM
im not jealous at all, i knowingly took loans out to get my education, and there is a good chance my career will be based on helping high school kids get a chance at a free college education (most private S+C facilities are based around this potential), so im all for academic scholarships. i think its ridiculous that people wish to downgrade the academic portion of college just because these kids play a sport, and wish to take money that would otherwise go towards academics or other sports and just hand it out to one specific team that encompasses 25% or less of a schools total athletic base. they are students first, and i think college football fans seem to forget that.

25% or less head-count wise. Not in terms of how much money is being brought in.

By that same thought, NFL players should be happy with whatever contract they're handed and should never negotiate for the best possible deal, because they're lucky to be getting what they're getting. Even though Peyton Manning brings in more money for the Colts than Curtis Painter.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah, young black athletes (a majority of DI college football athletes) are forced to be paid in imaginary money: tuition, which costs the university NOTHING, room and board, which costs the university NOTHING but utility costs, and "opportunity"...by opportunity they mean not allowing you to earn your own income or to take advantage of the financial opportunities available to athletes.

A spot in a lecture hall and a room in a dorm doesn't cost the university anything. The opportunity provided by college football in terms of transitioning to the pros could be provided in a much more effective, efficient way by private training.

The NCAA is a monopoly and a scam perpetrated by the same kinds of good ol' boy networks that maintained the sharecropping scams. Its just that ivory tower elitists like the NCAA are so good at lying to us about it.

youre post wreaks of someone who doesnt realize what a college degree is for. heres a fact: athletes do not have to go to college if they dont like the system the way it is, no one is making them go. they can wait 3 years then enter the NFL draft.

it is a true opportunity to go to college FOR FREE, because if they dont take that opportunity, they will not get a degree or if they choose to later they will be paying a very large amount of money for it.

the NCAA is by no means perfect, but to sit here and pretend that college is a total sham and its football players are struggling to even breathe is downright silly, and simply not true. they are provided with everything a COLLEGE STUDENT could need, free tutoring, food, room, board, education.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 08:15 PM
Yeah, young black athletes (a majority of DI college football athletes) are forced to be paid in imaginary money: tuition, which costs the university NOTHING, room and board, which costs the university NOTHING but utility costs, and "opportunity"...by opportunity they mean not allowing you to earn your own income or to take advantage of the financial opportunities available to athletes.

A spot in a lecture hall and a room in a dorm doesn't cost the university anything. The opportunity provided by college football in terms of transitioning to the pros could be provided in a much more effective, efficient way by private training.

The NCAA is a monopoly and a scam perpetrated by the same kinds of good ol' boy networks that maintained the sharecropping scams. Its just that ivory tower elitists like the NCAA are so good at lying to us about it.

Although I agree with your last paragraph, I disagree with how you get there. As a former teaching assistant, having one additional student in a class does make a difference, and that difference has to be monetized, which is where the credit hours come from.

But as for the rest, "the promise of the NFL" is a joke, but is sold as being more likely than it is. How else would you explain poor, disadvantaged athletes (no matter their skin color) attending a university and taking courses for a degree in General Education that have no real-world application?

Answer me this, TSI. If giving students a free education were so important to the universities, why aren't academic performance standards more strict? Is it possible that they realize that a large portion of the product (I use that word for a reason) that they pull in can't perform well in classes most of the general college populace can?

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 08:16 PM
25% or less head-count wise. Not in terms of how much money is being brought in.

By that same thought, NFL players should be happy with whatever contract they're handed and should never negotiate for the best possible deal, because they're lucky to be getting what they're getting. Even though Peyton Manning brings in more money for the Colts than Curtis Painter.

that money is used to fund the SCHOOL as well as other sports that dont make money. ive said that atleast 3 times. NFL is a free market, the players are allowed to negotiate contracts as they see fit. college is not, nor should it be, its a controlled environment geared towards helping students succeed while helping them become better athletes, and generating money for the university.

you seriously sound like you want college athletes to become free agents after high school and allow colleges to sign them to contracts. i dont know how anyone who attended college, like you, can support a position like that. these kids are students, not professional athletes.


Answer me this, TSI. If giving students a free education were so important to the universities, why aren't academic performance standards more strict? Is it possible that they realize that a large portion of the product (I use that word for a reason) that they pull in can't perform well in classes most of the general college populace can?

good question, and as a teaching assistant and someone whos been around college football at multiple universities now, i know for a fact that college is simply a means to an end for some guys. not all of them by any means, as the vast vast majority of players wont even get a look by league, and they know that. and i think the hour requirement is not conducive to making great academic students, though there is an academic team for every conference who are able to juggle everything, which is incredible.

cutthemdown
08-17-2011, 08:24 PM
So he likes to break the rules, he's DJ ****ING WILLIAMS, the rules do not apply because he brings it on Sundays.

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 08:31 PM
youre post wreaks of someone who doesnt realize what a college degree is for. heres a fact: athletes do not have to go to college if they dont like the system the way it is, no one is making them go. they can wait 3 years then enter the NFL draft.

it is a true opportunity to go to college FOR FREE, because if they dont take that opportunity, they will not get a degree or if they choose to later they will be paying a very large amount of money for it.

the NCAA is by no means perfect, but to sit here and pretend that college is a total sham and its football players are struggling to even breathe is downright silly, and simply not true. they are provided with everything a COLLEGE STUDENT could need, free tutoring, food, room, board, education.

A college degree these days is not worth very much. You need an advanced degree in just about every discipline in this country to be given a good shot making an above average salary in a stable career.

And you're assuming that these kids want degrees more than they want to get paid for playing football.

This using sports for social engineering just ain't something to be proud of. "We can't trust these young black people with money, so lets just act like we're doing them all a favor by "educating" them and not paying them what they deserve for the work that they're doing and the service theyre providing the school."

Gag me.

tsiguy96
08-17-2011, 08:37 PM
A college degree these days is not worth very much. You need an advanced degree in just about every discipline in this country to be given a good shot making an above average salary in a stable career.

agreed 100%. but you cant get an advanced degree without a bachelors to start. i personally think too many people are entering college who honestly are not cut out for it. this really dumbs down the curriculum to push everyone through, and a lot of trades that actually pay a lot more than most bachelors are being overlooked (auto mechanics, electricians etc).

And you're assuming that these kids want degrees more than they want to get paid for playing football.

of course they want to get paid for playing, who wouldnt? the money isnt there, and even if it was it wouldnt solve the problems.

This using sports for social engineering just ain't something to be proud of. "We can't trust these young black people with money, so lets just act like we're doing them all a favor by "educating" them and not paying them what they deserve for the work that they're doing and the service theyre providing the school."

its not about "young black people with money" its about athletes who are in college to get a FREE degree and perform their sport. the rules were not made with a specific race in mind. anyone whos young with money is going to waste it, im sure everyone here is guilty of this. you are in fact doing them a favor by educating them, and for those who just want to play football, they are getting an opportunity to develop and showcase their skills WHILE getting a college degree. i think you are just ignoring the basic issue here, thinking throwing money at it will solve it. college students who play football sometimes bring in profit for the school, this profit is used to support the school and other sports that dont, what is wrong with that? ps good luck paying football players and not womens volleyball, that will be fun to settle in court.

Gag me.

b

houghtam
08-17-2011, 08:38 PM
A college degree these days is not worth very much. You need an advanced degree in just about every discipline in this country to be given a good shot making an above average salary in a stable career.

That's a very interesting point that I hadn't thought of yet. I'm sure it's 100% coincidence, but it's still interesting to note that the worth of a college degree has declined over the past 30 years, while the amount of money generated by college football has increased over the same period.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 08:42 PM
b

You're right about the dumbing down of college academics. It's the mentality we have in the US that a college education is 100% necessary. It's literally the academic equivalent of throwing money at the problem and hoping to solve it. We would do well to look at other countries and study their academics systems, but that's a discussion for another time and another thread.

Pay the players! :~ohyah!:

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 08:43 PM
That's a very interesting point that I hadn't thought of yet. I'm sure it's 100% coincidence, but it's still interesting to note that the worth of a college degree has declined over the past 30 years, while the amount of money generated by college football has increased over the same period.

The cost of tuition has also skyrocketed while the value of a degree has plummeted.

Education reform. A must in this country at all levels. College is a scam and the federal gov't is making a killing off of those loans. You're borrowing from the gov't to pay the gov't. Pretty sick.

houghtam
08-17-2011, 08:48 PM
The cost of tuition has also skyrocketed while the value of a degree has plummeted.

Education reform. A must in this country at all levels. College is a scam and the federal gov't is making a killing off of those loans. You're borrowing from the gov't to pay the gov't. Pretty sick.

Agreed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_education

Obviously not a perfect solution, but what is? At least the German school system acknowledges the need for and usefulness of vocational education. In the US vocational education is primarily reserved for "problem students".

epicSocialism4tw
08-17-2011, 08:56 PM
Agreed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_education

Obviously not a perfect solution, but what is? At least the German school system acknowledges the need for and usefulness of vocational education. In the US vocational education is primarily reserved for "problem students".

Its not just about vocational education. Its about allowing parents to chart the best course for their kids.

In terms of college athletes, wouldn't it be better if the university just bought Reggie Bush's mom the house, paid him a salary and tried to coax him to play with the university on a salary for as long as they could keep a competitive pay rate?

Mogulseeker
08-17-2011, 11:07 PM
Personally, I love that the US education system didn't give up on me. If I lived in Germany, given my slow start, I'd be fixing cars or something right now... not that there's anything wrong with fixing cars...

That One Guy
08-17-2011, 11:12 PM
The system is currently broken because the NFL is determined to force the players through college. Many of those stupid ****s came off the street, can't spell more than their name, and speak like they're off that very plantation Epic keeps referring to.

If you're so stupid that your only capacity in the world is to chase a man with a football and slam yourself into him at a high speed, who do you blame for being susceptible to being taken advantage of?

It would never happen but nothing would make me happier than to eliminate college sports all together. Let them go play sports and let me take my classes. I'm tired of having to take classes with retards who would've never made it into any college if not for a lower standard of admission for athletes.

That One Guy
08-17-2011, 11:15 PM
Personally, I love that the US education system didn't give up on me. If I lived in Germany, given my slow start, I'd be fixing cars or something right now... not that there's anything wrong with fixing cars...

That works if you actually intend to do something with your life. That's the reason people should be treated as people and not merely statistics. If you start off slow but have the desire and drive to succeed, you're more than a simple slow-starting student.

Unfortunately, many of the kids in today's education system would help the system out best by tying a brick to their feet and jumping in a pond. Those that will never amount to anything but prison fodder and a 'baby daddy' should absolutely be ejected from our system - preferably with a cannon.

That One Guy
08-17-2011, 11:27 PM
By the way, this is on Yahoo right now:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-Higher-Education-Affects-usnews-1001103912.html?x=0

Those holding bachelor's degrees earn about $2.27 million over their lifetime, while those with master's, doctoral, and professional degrees earn $2.67 million, $3.25 million, and $3.65 million, respectively. That said, the major and industry a student selects ultimately have an enormous impact on lifetime earnings. Those with bachelor's degrees who work either in management or science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (NasdaqGM: STEM (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=stem&d=t) - News (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=stem)) earn more, on average, than people with advanced degrees of any level who work in fields like education, sales, and community service.

Those with bachelor's degrees, no matter the field, earn vastly more than counterparts with some college ($1.55 million in lifetime earnings) or a high school diploma ($1.30 million lifetime), indicating that no matter the level of attainment or the field of study, simply earning a four-year degree is often integral to financial success later in life.

"The payoff from getting a college degree is huge and is actually increasing," says Jamie Merisotis, president and CEO of Lumina Foundation, a nonprofit focused on boosting America's number of college graduates. "For people wondering [if] a college degree [is] worth it: Not only is it worth it, but the premium is growing."

DBroncos4life
08-18-2011, 12:12 AM
The system is currently broken because the NFL is determined to force the players through college. Many of those stupid ****s came off the street, can't spell more than their name, and speak like they're off that very plantation Epic keeps referring to.

If you're so stupid that your only capacity in the world is to chase a man with a football and slam yourself into him at a high speed, who do you blame for being susceptible to being taken advantage of?

It would never happen but nothing would make me happier than to eliminate college sports all together. Let them go play sports and let me take my classes. I'm tired of having to take classes with retards who would've never made it into any college if not for a lower standard of admission for athletes.

1 percent of the college athletes go pro. I'm pretty sure the rest of the student athletes need college sports.

DivineLegion
08-18-2011, 01:12 AM
1 percent of the college athletes go pro. I'm pretty sure the rest of the student athletes need college sports.

Right, but the 1% are the ones reaping the rewards handed down by the boosters.

Rock Chalk
08-18-2011, 05:22 AM
Boosters and donations by alumni.

Actually, I was looking at this and the only numbers available right now are 2009. This is from the US Department of Education

Link (http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e697469643d3138313436342679656 1723d323030392673656172636843726974657269613d33313 36435353665363937363635373237333639373437393230366 63636323034653635363237323631373336623631323633323 36434633639366536333666366336653236333833643237333 13330333832373236373236343734336433383266333133383 26633323330333133313230333733613335333633613332333 1323034313464267264743d382f31382f3230313120373a353 63a323120414d)

This is revenue the school actually produces (by sport). There is no way to otherwise quantify what it is worth.

OK So here's the awesome part. Nebraska made a 5 million dollar profit after all expenses and athletic dept salaries were paid. You can extrapolate all the math out to see how much profit football actually made and that is the point of this whole conversation.

As big as Nebraska football is, its barely making a profit. There is probably 30, 35 schools in teh country that make a profit from their football programs and probably 20-25 schools whose profit margin is high enough to pay for all their other sports.

And people want to pay the kids.

That One Guy
08-18-2011, 08:24 AM
1 percent of the college athletes go pro. I'm pretty sure the rest of the student athletes need college sports.

Well then maybe the athletes should be more worried about getting an education than playing sports while they're there.

If I pull up statistics (and I don't know if they're available) of all those who even graduate, are they going to appear as if the "student athlete" is actually taking the education seriously?

Reality is that it may be spoiled by just a few but the college sports scenario is more focused on the sports aspect than the college. If less than 1% go pro, should that really be the balance?

DBroncos4life
08-18-2011, 09:21 AM
Actually, I was looking at this and the only numbers available right now are 2009. This is from the US Department of Education

Link (http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e697469643d3138313436342679656 1723d323030392673656172636843726974657269613d33313 36435353665363937363635373237333639373437393230366 63636323034653635363237323631373336623631323633323 36434633639366536333666366336653236333833643237333 13330333832373236373236343734336433383266333133383 26633323330333133313230333733613335333633613332333 1323034313464267264743d382f31382f3230313120373a353 63a323120414d)

This is revenue the school actually produces (by sport). There is no way to otherwise quantify what it is worth.

OK So here's the awesome part. Nebraska made a 5 million dollar profit after all expenses and athletic dept salaries were paid. You can extrapolate all the math out to see how much profit football actually made and that is the point of this whole conversation.

As big as Nebraska football is, its barely making a profit. There is probably 30, 35 schools in teh country that make a profit from their football programs and probably 20-25 schools whose profit margin is high enough to pay for all their other sports.

And people want to pay the kids.

The link isn't working for me. I could see NU only making a 5 mill profit for the athletic dept though. The football program clears way more then that though. No way does the either BB team make money. I'm not sure what the school owes on it's new baseball field and the new additions on the football field. I found this about our new baskball arena....

The Univ. of Nebraska and the city of Lincoln on a May 11 ballot are "asking Lincoln voters to approve a $168[M] sports and entertainment arena" for the city's Haymarket District, according to Leslie Reed of the Omaha WORLD-HERALD. The school "would not put tax or tuition dollars toward" the city-owned arena, which would replace Devaney Center as the home arena for the Nebraska basketball program. Nebraska AD Tom Osborne said that with the men's and women's basketball program "as a whole breaking even, football revenues in essence would cover" the school's $750,000 annual arena rent. The school "would get credits toward its rent to reflect lost concession sales, among other things." Lincoln would "sell 32 of 36 proposed skyboxes at $40,000 per year each, generating a total" of $1.28M. The school would keep four skyboxes "to sell or otherwise use." Osborne estimated that the university's contribution toward the arena would be more than $1M per year, "when its rent payments and lost revenues are taken into account." Reed noted the agreement "would not allow beer or other alcoholic beverages to be sold" at Nebraska games. Osborne last week said that Devaney Center needs as much as $40M and "perhaps more in renovations and improvements to remain competitive with other basketball facilities in the Big 12 conference and elsewhere in the country." If voters reject the new arena plan, Osborne said that the school is "prepared to launch an overhaul of ... Devaney, even a renovated facility likely would lack the posh skybox suites and other amenities that could come with a brand-new arena.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2010/04/Issue-146/Facilities-Venues/Univ-Of-Nebraska-Eyes-New-$168M-Basketball-Arena-In-Lincoln.aspx

gyldenlove
08-18-2011, 09:48 AM
Personally, I love that the US education system didn't give up on me. If I lived in Germany, given my slow start, I'd be fixing cars or something right now... not that there's anything wrong with fixing cars...

I am a certified university drop out, started a degree right out of high-school, spend 2 years playing MMOs and failing classes, dropped out, got a job for a couple of years until I got myself straightened out, went back and am now on the home stretch of finishing my PhD, all without ever taking a single student loan and never getting money from my parents or working more than 5 hours a week - all thanks to the Danish school system.

That One Guy
08-18-2011, 09:51 AM
I am a certified university drop out, started a degree right out of high-school, spend 2 years playing MMOs and failing classes, dropped out, got a job for a couple of years until I got myself straightened out, went back and am now on the home stretch of finishing my PhD, all without ever taking a single student loan and never getting money from my parents or working more than 5 hours a week - all thanks to the Danish school system.

Unfortunately we have that aspect of society which we're continually forced to coddle that prevents well-intentioned programs like this from ever going anywhere.

All we'd have is people spending 10 years failing classes and abusing the system.

Everything gets paid for somehow. Our poor are just better at being poor than your poor so we have to work things differently.

DBroncos4life
08-18-2011, 10:07 AM
Rock Chalk I think we are on the same page here. I agree as big as NU football is, after its done paying for the rest of the sports at NU there isn't much money to go around.

NU will be going from 81,000 seats to 90,000 seats in 2013 and it's going to cost 55 million dollars. The thing is 40 million dollars of that came from private donors. The rest is coming from revenue bonds.

As is I don't think many colleges would be able to function the way they do without the help of donors. Colleges with richer alum would profit the most in a world where colleges paid its players. I would love this idea if Warren Buffet would just leave NU like 2 or 3 Billion dollars :)

DENVERDUI55
08-18-2011, 11:54 AM
I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the Miami mess unfold. Highly entertaining and couldn't happen to better university.

houghtam
08-18-2011, 01:31 PM
I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the Miami mess unfold. Highly entertaining and couldn't happen to better university.

I absolutely agree. A friend of mine asked me how I can be rooting for Ohio State and Miami to have the hammer dropped on them while still advocating compensating players. I likened it to the Scopes trial and/or Inherit the Wind...my feelings on what the rules SHOULD be are immaterial at the moment. You know the rules, you broke them, you should pay the consequences for it.

gyldenlove
08-18-2011, 01:54 PM
Rock Chalk I think we are on the same page here. I agree as big as NU football is, after its done paying for the rest of the sports at NU there isn't much money to go around.

NU will be going from 81,000 seats to 90,000 seats in 2013 and it's going to cost 55 million dollars. The thing is 40 million dollars of that came from private donors. The rest is coming from revenue bonds.

As is I don't think many colleges would be able to function the way they do without the help of donors. Colleges with richer alum would profit the most in a world where colleges paid its players. I would love this idea if Warren Buffet would just leave NU like 2 or 3 Billion dollars :)

In that case Harvard would win the championship every year given their billion dollar endowment fund.

That One Guy
08-18-2011, 01:55 PM
I absolutely agree. A friend of mine asked me how I can be rooting for Ohio State and Miami to have the hammer dropped on them while still advocating compensating players. I likened it to the Scopes trial and/or Inherit the Wind...my feelings on what the rules SHOULD be are immaterial at the moment. You know the rules, you broke them, you should pay the consequences for it.

I get a little (and I do mean little!) stiffy when I think of a college football season without OSU or Miami.

ohiobronco2
08-18-2011, 03:27 PM
I get a little (and I do mean little!) stiffy when I think of a college football season without OSU or Miami.

I can understand why Michigan fans love what OSU is going through, but it won't make you any better on the field (not even extra practice will). It's like you guys hope the NCAA beats OSU because you can't. I think you guys should try and defeat your own in state rival first. Concerning hoke, he looks like a decent hire, he gets the rivalry. I'm pretty sure we will still be crushing you guys on the field come Nov 26th, but after that who knows.

houghtam
08-18-2011, 03:45 PM
I can understand why Michigan fans love what OSU is going through, but it won't make you any better on the field (not even extra practice will). It's like you guys hope the NCAA beats OSU because you can't. I think you guys should try and defeat your own in state rival first. Concerning hoke, he looks like a decent hire, he gets the rivalry. I'm pretty sure we will still be crushing you guys on the field come Nov 26th, but after that who knows.

Typical OSU fan deflection. We've been hearing a lot of that over the past year. Instead of admitting that the program has been playing on the wrong side of NCAA regulations for years and receiving the benefits from said skirting of the rules, you deflect and shove your record in everyone's face, as if wins and improper benefits are unrelated.

ohiobronco2
08-18-2011, 03:57 PM
Typical OSU fan deflection. We've been hearing a lot of that over the past year. Instead of admitting that the program has been playing on the wrong side of NCAA regulations for years and receiving the benefits from said skirting of the rules, you deflect and shove your record in everyone's face, as if wins and improper benefits are unrelated.

About the response I expected. Only thing that has been proven is signatures/selling trinkets for tats. Pryor may have been individually responsible for other various violations. If it is proven that the UNIVERSITY had knowledge of this the school deserves to be severely punished, but from what we know right now the NCAA does not appear to believe that (NO FTM or LOIC). I'll await your sad response about how OSU is in bed with the NCAA. The fact is, Michigan St. and Michigan are 2nd tier football schools right now (a good year here a good year there). They have solid facilities, but without the HS football talent in Ohio (Talking specifically about Michigan), they are dog sh*t. OSU has top notch facilities, great resources, tradition and in state talent only bettered by Texas, Florida and California. Tell me how tattoo's made our school better, you know the instate kids were coming here for the free tats. LOL. I'm waiting for a piss poor conspiracy theory you are going to throw my way.

houghtam
08-18-2011, 04:14 PM
About the response I expected. Only thing that has been proven is signatures/selling trinkets for tats. Pryor may have been individually responsible for other various violations. If it is proven that the UNIVERSITY had knowledge of this the school deserves to be severely punished, but from what we know right now the NCAA does not appear to believe that (NO FTM or LOIC). I'll await your sad response about how OSU is in bed with the NCAA. The fact is, Michigan St. and Michigan are 2nd tier football schools right now (a good year here a good year there). They have solid facilities, but without the HS football talent in Ohio, they are dog sh*t. OSU has top notch facilities, great resources, tradition and in state talent only bettered by Texas, Florida and California. Tell me how tattoo's made our school better, you know the instate kids were coming here for the free tats. LOL. I'm waiting for a piss poor conspiracy theory you are going to throw my way.

Congratulations, your team has a better record because of its proximity to good talent. Well if that's not something to be proud of, I'm not sure what is! Next you'll say that Saudi Arabia is the best country because they happen to be near a lot of oil?

And what tradition are you talking about? 2 "iconic" coaches being dismissed for NCAA violations? Oh, sorry...Hayes was dismissed for punching a guy...that was after the violations.

Meh, these things go in cycles, and you're more than welcome to gloat for your time. Just be aware that you'll get it back in spades once your turn is up. It's only a matter of time before Ohio State steps down and the next big dynasty steps up. My guess is it's going to be Wisconsin or Michigan State. Michigan isn't going anywhere, and I've already given my opinion on Nebraska in other threads.

ohiobronco2
08-18-2011, 07:10 PM
Congratulations, your team has a better record because of its proximity to good talent. Well if that's not something to be proud of, I'm not sure what is! Next you'll say that Saudi Arabia is the best country because they happen to be near a lot of oil?

And what tradition are you talking about? 2 "iconic" coaches being dismissed for NCAA violations? Oh, sorry...Hayes was dismissed for punching a guy...that was after the violations.

Meh, these things go in cycles, and you're more than welcome to gloat for your time. Just be aware that you'll get it back in spades once your turn is up. It's only a matter of time before Ohio State steps down and the next big dynasty steps up. My guess is it's going to be Wisconsin or Michigan State. Michigan isn't going anywhere, and I've already given my opinion on Nebraska in other threads.

You know, the funny thing is Michigan has had better recruiting classes than OSU for the majority of the past ten years. But damn, that cheater Tressel sure could coach. How worried are you that Dantonio is a Tressel disciple? Nebraska, Michigan (if they get their sh*t together) and Wisconsin will be the only year in and year out threats to OSU. Michigan St and Penn St. beat us every once in a while, but not consistently enough for me to worry. Enjoy taking shots at my program in the off season, because you can't beat us on the field.

That One Guy
08-18-2011, 07:14 PM
I can understand why Michigan fans love what OSU is going through, but it won't make you any better on the field (not even extra practice will). It's like you guys hope the NCAA beats OSU because you can't. I think you guys should try and defeat your own in state rival first. Concerning hoke, he looks like a decent hire, he gets the rivalry. I'm pretty sure we will still be crushing you guys on the field come Nov 26th, but after that who knows.

If there's no OSU, the season is already good. Not only can we not lose to OSU again, we can spend the entire season finding Buckeye fans and asking them what they're doing with their Saturday.

Once I'm sure Michigan can compete with OSU again, I'll consider whether I'd like to see them back. Until I have some reason to believe Michigan will win though, I'll be content knowing that they can't lose.

ohiobronco2
08-18-2011, 07:31 PM
If there's no OSU, the season is already good. Not only can we not lose to OSU again, we can spend the entire season finding Buckeye fans and asking them what they're doing with their Saturday.

Once I'm sure Michigan can compete with OSU again, I'll consider whether I'd like to see them back. Until I have some reason to believe Michigan will win though, I'll be content knowing that they can't lose.

What, do you believe they will get the death penalty? ROFL! Michigan will be respectable sooner rather than later. Their offense isn't terrible, but their D has a long way to go. They are pulling in a very good class this year and made an excellent hire as their D coordinator. Brady has hit the ground running, if the teams doesn't make a bowl game their class may begin to fall apart, but that immediate playing time on D is a good selling point. I'll be interested to see how they use Denard this year as well. I just want the season to start already.

tsiguy96
08-18-2011, 07:43 PM
Actually, I was looking at this and the only numbers available right now are 2009. This is from the US Department of Education

Link (http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e697469643d3138313436342679656 1723d323030392673656172636843726974657269613d33313 36435353665363937363635373237333639373437393230366 63636323034653635363237323631373336623631323633323 36434633639366536333666366336653236333833643237333 13330333832373236373236343734336433383266333133383 26633323330333133313230333733613335333633613332333 1323034313464267264743d382f31382f3230313120373a353 63a323120414d)

This is revenue the school actually produces (by sport). There is no way to otherwise quantify what it is worth.

OK So here's the awesome part. Nebraska made a 5 million dollar profit after all expenses and athletic dept salaries were paid. You can extrapolate all the math out to see how much profit football actually made and that is the point of this whole conversation.

As big as Nebraska football is, its barely making a profit. There is probably 30, 35 schools in teh country that make a profit from their football programs and probably 20-25 schools whose profit margin is high enough to pay for all their other sports.

And people want to pay the kids.


would be nice if these schools used this money to lower tuition. the way tuition rates have increased is absolutely incredible. does anyone know any 1 or 2 major reasons it has increased SO much compared to inflation the last 10-20 years?

DENVERDUI55
08-18-2011, 07:54 PM
would be nice if these schools used this money to lower tuition. the way tuition rates have increased is absolutely incredible. does anyone know any 1 or 2 major reasons it has increased SO much compared to inflation the last 10-20 years?

They need to pay the athletes you know. LOL

DBroncos4life
08-18-2011, 08:21 PM
would be nice if these schools used this money to lower tuition. the way tuition rates have increased is absolutely incredible. does anyone know any 1 or 2 major reasons it has increased SO much compared to inflation the last 10-20 years?

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-PnS2n9P7zs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qUZAj9XYKYQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This stuff isn't cheap LOL

That One Guy
08-18-2011, 08:27 PM
What, do you believe they will get the death penalty? ROFL! Michigan will be respectable sooner rather than later. Their offense isn't terrible, but their D has a long way to go. They are pulling in a very good class this year and made an excellent hire as their D coordinator. Brady has hit the ground running, if the teams doesn't make a bowl game their class may begin to fall apart, but that immediate playing time on D is a good selling point. I'll be interested to see how they use Denard this year as well. I just want the season to start already.

You might say I'm a dreamer - but I'm not the only one...

:strong:

That One Guy
08-18-2011, 08:31 PM
would be nice if these schools used this money to lower tuition. the way tuition rates have increased is absolutely incredible. does anyone know any 1 or 2 major reasons it has increased SO much compared to inflation the last 10-20 years?

Because they can?

Supposedly a cut in assistance money. Reality though is that with so much financial aid and loans available, few people are really deterred by costs. If you really want to go to college, a few extra $K wont change your plans.

tsiguy96
08-18-2011, 08:53 PM
Because they can?

Supposedly a cut in assistance money. Reality though is that with so much financial aid and loans available, few people are really deterred by costs. If you really want to go to college, a few extra $K wont change your plans.

a few extra hundred bucks here and there, absolutely not. taken over the course of 10 years, and tuition can double. my undergrad had a badass program called tuition lock, where your freshman tuition rate was locked in for 5 years for you.

ohiobronco2
08-19-2011, 07:18 AM
You might say I'm a dreamer - but I'm not the only one...

:strong:

ROFL!

DivineLegion
08-19-2011, 07:23 AM
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-PnS2n9P7zs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qUZAj9XYKYQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This stuff isn't cheap LOL

Didn't Suh just recently donate 60,000 to Nebraska for an upgrade in their weight room?

TheReverend
08-19-2011, 07:32 AM
http://www.personal.psu.edu/mkc5040/Penn_State_Nittany_Lions_Logo.jpg

gunns
08-19-2011, 08:01 AM
Didn't Suh just recently donate 60,000 to Nebraska for an upgrade in their weight room?

$2mil for their strength and conditioning program and $600,000 for an engineering program

DBroncos4life
08-19-2011, 08:47 AM
Didn't Suh just recently donate 60,000 to Nebraska for an upgrade in their weight room?

I'm pretty sure that whole complex was built by donations. The Dr staff that is kept on might be expensive though. Gunns was right though 2.6 million was donated by Suh.

Punisher
08-19-2011, 12:24 PM
http://mlkshk.com/r/2078

elsid13
08-19-2011, 12:34 PM
would be nice if these schools used this money to lower tuition. the way tuition rates have increased is absolutely incredible. does anyone know any 1 or 2 major reasons it has increased SO much compared to inflation the last 10-20 years?

There isn't a single answer but mainly it broken down into four areas:

1. State budget are in the red, and their allocation to higher education is shrinking
2. Higher personal cost ranging from salaries to health care.
3. Increased infrastructure cost associated with running the campus.
4. Less Federal Grants for research which help offset capital cost of equipment and research.

bendog
08-19-2011, 12:58 PM
The thing that gets me is the hookers and strippers. I mean I know Ole Miss got in trouble when some alumni took recruits up to memphis to a strip club. But that was more or less just buying the kids a nice lunch on their campus visit. But in the four colleges/unis I atteneded, I never knew football players to lack sex. I remember lifting weights at Wyoming, and there were these football players who had sweet young things from Sheridan or someplace who'd never seen anything like those guys. LOL

Shananahan
08-19-2011, 01:11 PM
If you can't get laid in college, you're doing it wrong to begin with.

If you play college football and can't get laid, you're probably a eunuch.

Chris
08-19-2011, 02:46 PM
Does everyone know that Orlando Franklin was just named in this?

TheReverend
08-19-2011, 02:47 PM
Does everyone know that Orlando Franklin was just named in this?

"Just"...?

Chris
08-19-2011, 02:52 PM
Couldn't be bothered to sift through 7 pages

Full breakdown - http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=Aovmcbo8PMXOX.xKvvDtocVRMuB_?slug=ys-orlando_franklin_allegations

DivineLegion
08-19-2011, 07:58 PM
I'm pretty sure that whole complex was built by donations. The Dr staff that is kept on might be expensive though. Gunns was right though 2.6 million was donated by Suh.

Ah, 2.6 million...well I got the 6 right. I was trying not to be overzelous with the sum, and was completely off. Shows A. that Suh knows where he came from, and B. the quality of players that are produced under the tutalage, and expectation of the Nebraska progam. I know this isn't the first time a player has given money back to his program, but I haven't heard stories about Sam Bradford, Mario Williams, or Matt Stafford.

DBroncos4life
08-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Ah, 2.6 million...well I got the 6 right. I was trying not to be overzelous with the sum, and was completely off. Shows A. that Suh knows where he came from, and B. the quality of players that are produced under the tutalage, and expectation of the Nebraska progam. I know this isn't the first time a player has given money back to his program, but I haven't heard stories about Sam Bradford, Mario Williams, or Matt Stafford.

Suh is a very humble and down to earth type of player. People like him don't come around that often and I'm not just talking about on the football field. The way he acts towards his mom, you can tell he was raised right.

DivineLegion
08-19-2011, 09:08 PM
Suh is a very humble and down to earth type of player. People like him don't come around that often and I'm not just talking about on the football field. The way he acts towards his mom, you can tell he was raised right.

He's a good kid, and I feel like it was just destiny for him to end up with one of the greatest men to ever grace college football, Tom Osborne as his AD.

bendog
08-20-2011, 06:13 AM
Well, Orlando Franklin is a SCARY looking guy, so I can maybe see him needing a little help ....