Texas Gov Perry for President

[Smiling Assassin27]

And the 'ponzi scheme'? Yeah, that helped his chances.



Can't fault the guy for calling it what it is, and that position certainly separates him from the others in the field who either don't agree or won't say it. The problem is that he hasn't really given any kind of solution that's specific to Social Security.

I'm not sure that 'Texan' will automatically give him no shot. He may be a blowhard (that's a subjective label, really), but he's got a record that's as formidable as any, including the current sitting president's record. The fact that he's evangelical and from Texas (let's face it, EVERY candidate and politician's a liar in some sense) is no better reason to disqualify him than Obama being a disciple of Black Liberation Theology and from the most corrupt political scene in the country.

[DenverBrit]

Can't fault the guy for calling it what it is, and that position certainly separates him from the others in the field who either don't agree or won't say it. The problem is that he hasn't really given any kind of solution that's specific to Social Security.

I'm not sure that 'Texan' will automatically give him no shot. He may be a blowhard (that's a subjective label, really), but he's got a record that's as formidable as any, including the current sitting president's record. The fact that he's evangelical and from Texas (let's face it, EVERY candidate and politician's a liar in some sense) is no better reason to disqualify him than Obama being a disciple of Black Liberation Theology and from the most corrupt political scene in the country.

A ponzi scheme is illegal, how is SS an illegal activity?

[Smiling Assassin27]

A ponzi scheme is illegal, how is SS an illegal activity?

You miss the point Perry is making. Legality is not the issue, the structure of the SS program is. A ponzi scheme is a system in which early entrants get something for very little and late entrants get nothing for something (most often, a lot). If a private company ran this, they'd be prosecuted and we both know it. The fact that SS is not illegal is irrelevant to the fact that the pyramid-like set up is a)unfair; b)unsustainable; and c) obsolete.

Romney tried to characterize Perry's position as 'wanting to eliminate social security', which Perry has not and--from what i've seen--does not believe.

[DenverBrit]

You miss the point Perry is making. Legality is not the issue, the structure of the SS program is. A ponzi scheme is a system in which early entrants get something for very little and late entrants get nothing for something (most often, a lot). If a private company ran this, they'd be prosecuted and we both know it. The fact that SS is not illegal is irrelevant to the fact that the pyramid-like set up is a)unfair; b)unsustainable; and c) obsolete.

Romney tried to characterize Perry's position as 'wanting to eliminate social security', which Perry has not and--from what i've seen--does not believe.

I know what a ponzi scheme is, I'm curious as to how it applies to SS.

[Pony Boy]

A ponzi scheme is illegal, how is SS an illegal activity?

What congress did with the SS funds that were deposited by all the baby boomers should be illegal. Those funds should be there but they are not, they were used for pet project the congress wanted. This is really the same thing Bernie Madoff did but you are right the difference is congress used a legal loophole to rob the SS lockbox.

[24champ]

He sunk his campaign when he kept referring to SS as a Ponzi Scheme, which Karl Rove and Dick Cheney differed with Perry on his statements. Makes Perry look like a fringe candidate and unpresidential.

He's not going to win the nomination continuing to make unpresidential by insinuating that the Fed Chairman should be tried for Treason and that SS is a ponzi scheme. He didn't bring any substance last night and was primarily rhetoric. I guarantee you he will get smoked in the General Election.

[DenverBrit]

What congress did with the SS funds that were deposited by all the baby boomers should be illegal. Those funds should be there but they are not, they were used for pet project the congress wanted. This is really the same thing Bernie Madoff did but you are right the difference is congress used a legal loophole to rob the SS lockbox.

Then wouldn't closing the loophole be the answer?

[Smiling Assassin27]

What congress did with the SS funds that were deposited by all the baby boomers should be illegal. Those funds should be there but they are not, they were used for pet project the congress wanted. This is really the same thing Bernie Madoff did but you are right the difference is congress used a legal loophole to rob the SS lockbox.

That would be Democrat Lyndon Johnson and the Democratically controlled Congress of 1968 that took the SS Trust Fund and stuck it in the general fund for all who were in power to raid. Nixon stupidly carried it on and away we go.

Anyone ever hear of the Galveston County Program as a model for SS reform? Do yourself a favor and read up on it.

[DenverBrit]

That would be Democrat Lyndon Johnson and the Democratically controlled Congress of 1968 that took the SS Trust Fund and stuck it in the general fund for all who were in power to raid. Nixon stupidly carried it on and away we go.

Anyone ever hear of the Galveston County Program as a model for SS reform? Do yourself a favor and read up on it.

So did Reagan attempt to fix the problem?

[Pony Boy]

Then wouldn't closing the loophole be the answer?

Yes but kind of like closing the gate after the cattle are gone. I think Perry is trying to make the point of closing the loophole but made a bad choice of words. A true ponzi scheme is a type of securities fraud where the promoter makes some sort of false or misleading statement about an investment (often including a guaranteed high rate of return) and pays off older investors with newer investor’s monies. Eventually, when the promoter can’t find any new investors, the scheme collapses.

What he should of called it is a pyramid scheme where a dishonest and usually illegal business in which many people are persuaded to invest their money and the money of later investors is used to pay the people who invested first.

[Smiling Assassin27]

He sunk his campaign when he kept referring to SS as a Ponzi Scheme, which Karl Rove and Dick Cheney differed with Perry on his statements. Makes Perry look like a fringe candidate and unpresidential.

He's not going to win the nomination continuing to make unpresidential by insinuating that the Fed Chairman should be tried for Treason and that SS is a ponzi scheme. He didn't bring any substance last night and was primarily rhetoric. I guarantee you he will get smoked in the General Election.

There are mainstream/establishment Repubs who have said they would fire Bernanke today if they could. You seem to think that saying inflammatory things like Perry has said about SS are detrimental to his electability but I'm not so sure. It's all about timing and presentation. Right now, he's got time to toss rhetoric around without it directly biting him in the arse. If this were the general election, i don't think you'd see Perry saying things as brazenly as he has in the primaries.

The only way he gets smoked in the general election is if the bloated republican establishment bails on him, which may or may not happen. Given the choice of Obama for another 4 years or a guy that has SOME in common with them, I think they may begrudgingly get on the Perry train when push comes to shove.

At any rate, I agree with you--no concrete proposals or solutions to speak of from Perry yet. Then again, Obama gave us nothing but vagueries and Bush insults for 2 years and won. There's lots to be said, sadly, for just kicking the incumbent early and often, then blaming them when you win.

[Smiling Assassin27]

So did Reagan attempt to fix the problem?

From waht I recall ( i was a teen), Reagan was a fan of personal SS accounts with some element of being voluntary. But what he got was flack from Tip O'Neill on this, so he bent over and did the 'increase retirement age and tax increase' thing. Not smart, IMO.

Correct me if I'm factually wrong on this, anyone.

[DenverBrit]

Yes but kind of like closing the gate after the cattle are gone. I think Perry is trying to make the point of closing the loophole but made a bad choice of words. A true ponzi scheme is a type of securities fraud where the promoter makes some sort of false or misleading statement about an investment (often including a guaranteed high rate of return) and pays off older investors with newer investor’s monies. Eventually, when the promoter can’t find any new investors, the scheme collapses.

What he should of called it is a pyramid scheme where a dishonest and usually illegal business in which many people are persuaded to invest their money and the money of later investors is used to pay the people who invested first.

It doesn't appear to be either a ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme, much closer to the 'commingling of funds', which would be similar to embezzlement if it were not legal to do so.

[epicSocialism4tw]

He sunk his campaign when he kept referring to SS as a Ponzi Scheme, which Karl Rove and Dick Cheney differed with Perry on his statements. Makes Perry look like a fringe candidate and unpresidential.

That's not at all true. Liberals who try to make this an issue are playing with fire. Everyone I know is upset with Social Security. Even recipients. Most people look at their SS statement and know that they'll never see a dime of it with the way that the program is currently constructed. Everyone knows its a big scam. A tax thats not called a tax.

The more this debate gets out in the open and people start talking about it, the better Perry looks because he's the guy who made it an issue.

He's not going to win the nomination continuing to make unpresidential by insinuating that the Fed Chairman should be tried for Treason and that SS is a ponzi scheme. He didn't bring any substance last night and was primarily rhetoric. I guarantee you he will get smoked in the General Election.

First off, he would be running against as sure a loser as McCain was last year. Obama is done. His record is horrible. There is literally nothing for him to run on. All of his accomplishments are negative. The American people don't want leftist extremism. Keynesian economics failed miserably.

Secondly, the mere fact that you are discussing social security today is an accomplishment of Perry's. The more those things ruminate with the public, the more that he'll gain support.

[DenverBrit]

From waht I recall ( i was a teen), Reagan was a fan of personal SS accounts with some element of being voluntary. But what he got was flack from Tip O'Neill on this, so he bent over and did the 'increase retirement age and tax increase' thing. Not smart, IMO.

Correct me if I'm factually wrong on this, anyone.

What I do recall was Reagan introducing SS taxation, which many forget.

I don't recall him ever suggesting that SS funds be separated from the general fund.

[24champ]

There are mainstream/establishment Repubs who have said they would fire Bernanke today if they could.

Yes but they didn't call him out for treason. It's a bit different...don't you think?

You seem to think that saying inflammatory things like Perry has said about SS are detrimental to his electability but I'm not so sure. It's all about timing and presentation. Right now, he's got time to toss rhetoric around without it directly biting him in the arse. If this were the general election, i don't think you'd see Perry saying things as brazenly as he has in the primaries.

He's always tossed rhetoric around, that might work in Texas politics, but its not going to work in Presidential elections. I understand that the Perry team was trying to coach him up to look more Presidential in this debate, and even with that coaching and help, he didn't come off right.

You cannot keep saying SS is a "ponzi scheme" and that it is a "monstrous lie" because its going to scare off voters, particularly independents.


The only way he gets smoked in the general election is if the bloated republican establishment bails on him, which may or may not happen. Given the choice of Obama for another 4 years or a guy that has SOME in common with them, I think they may begrudgingly get on the Perry train when push comes to shove.

No he will get smoked because he can't win over the independents. When you have Dick Cheney and Karl Rove, two guys that are pretty far right saying your wrong on Social Security, it should sound the alarms on how nutty Perry is. Social Security is close to being a third rail issue, you cannot just use rhetoric and no plan on that topic.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Yes but they didn't call him out for treason. It's a bit different...don't you think?

I don't think that that issue matters at all. Most people understand that the fed tends to shrink their money. Most people dislike the fed.

He's always tossed rhetoric around, that might work in Texas politics, but its not going to work in Presidential elections. I understand that the Perry team was trying to coach him up to look more Presidential in this debate, and even with that coaching and help, he didn't come off right.

Why are you so concerned with how people 'look'? Shouldn't you be more concerned about the issues?

I'd rather have somebody who is in some degree honest. I'm done with the Obama lie lie lie lie lie politics. Through with it.


You cannot keep saying SS is a "ponzi scheme" and that it is a "monstrous lie" because its going to scare off voters, particularly independents.

Why would that scare off independents? The majority of the country does not think like Californians do, and Texas is like a revered Mecca for much of the Southeast and the Midwest.


No he will get smoked because he can't win over the independents. When you have Dick Cheney and Karl Rove, two guys that are pretty far right saying your wrong on Social Security, it should sound the alarms on how nutty Perry is. Social Security is close to being a third rail issue, you cannot just use rhetoric and no plan on that topic.

Perry is 'nutty', but Obama who wants to put us through another stimulus disaster disguised as a 'jobs' package is okay? Ha!

Wake up, people. Turn off MSNBC and step out into reality.

[TonyR]

Everyone I know is upset with Social Security. Even recipients.

You must not know very many older people/retirees. You touch their SS and you'll have them and AARP come down on you with great vengeance. And I know you have very little understanding of how elections work since you demonstrate this every day with your assinine comments but I can guarantee you that's a voting block you don't want on the other side.

[24champ]

That's not at all true. Liberals who try to make this an issue are playing with fire. Everyone I know is upset with Social Security. Even recipients. Most people look at their SS statement and know that they'll never see a dime of it with the way that the program is currently constructed. Everyone knows its a big scam. A tax thats not called a tax.

You're not going to win an election by saying Social Security is a fraud and criminal. It's the dumbest statement a presidential candidate can make at this juncture. SS helps MILLIONS of Americans to support themselves because they are either elderly or disabled. It's just not a winning issue, and its definitely something Obama/Democrats would love to debate Perry on and they will win on that issue. Always have.

First off, he would be running against as sure a loser as McCain was last year. Obama is done. His record is horrible. There is literally nothing for him to run on. All of his accomplishments are negative. The American people don't want leftist extremism. Keynesian economics failed miserably.

Secondly, the mere fact that you are discussing social security today is an accomplishment of Perry's. The more those things ruminate with the public, the more that he'll gain support.

You think Perry is going to carry the State of Florida and other retirement states? ROFL! No ****ing way. Second thing is, Perry has always been trailing Obama in the National polls and also Obama will walk all over Perry in debates. Perry even commented that he isn't interested in intellectual debates, and is just about rhetoric. No candidate ever won an election on abolishing SS.

[TonyR]

...Obama who wants to put us through another stimulus disaster...

Dipsh*t, Obama doesn't "want to" put us through any such thing. He's got to play politics and try to answer the charges from pitchfork and torch wielding dopes like you saying he isn't doing anything about jobs. Problem is there isn't much that can be done without costing hundreds of billions of dollars which nobody wants either. So he can't win either way, and yet bozos like you can't see this.

[TonyR]

You're not going to win an election by saying Social Security is a fraud and criminal. It's the dumbest statement a presidential candidate can make at this juncture.

Yup. Pretty simple stuff. And the fact that epicflail doesn't know this proves he should move on from such discussions and let the adults talk.

[epicSocialism4tw]

You're not going to win an election by saying Social Security is a fraud and criminal. It's the dumbest statement a presidential candidate can make at this juncture. SS helps MILLIONS of Americans to support themselves because they are either elderly or disabled. It's just not a winning issue, and its definitely something Obama/Democrats would love to debate Perry on and they will win on that issue. Always have.


You think Perry is going to carry the State of Florida and other retirement states? ROFL! No ****ing way. Second thing is, Perry has always been trailing Obama in the National polls and also Obama will walk all over Perry in debates. Perry even commented that he isn't interested in intellectual debates, and is just about rhetoric. No candidate ever won an election on abolishing SS.

At this point its going to take a miracle for Obama to be competitive.

He's going to have to part the gulf of mexico or something to even get a second look.

The country is ready to move on.

[TonyR]

At this point its going to take a miracle for Obama to be competitive.

Despite the fact that polls show him beating both Perry and Romney. He only loses to a "generic republican". You better figure out who that is!

[24champ]

I don't think that that issue matters at all. Most people understand that the fed tends to shrink their money. Most people dislike the fed.


Most people don't think that Bernanke is a traitor either.


Why are you so concerned with how people 'look'? Shouldn't you be more concerned about the issues?

I'd rather have somebody who is in some degree honest. I'm done with the Obama lie lie lie lie lie politics. Through with it.

It's America, its always about how a candidate presents himself. It's why Paul has zero shot. Perry almost came off kind of loony last night. If he keeps that up, his numbers will drop.

Why would that scare off independents? The majority of the country does not think like Californians do, and Texas is like a revered Mecca for much of the Southeast and the Midwest.

Because Independents are not far right loonies that want to systematically abolish SS and other government ran programs. You are not going to win Florida, Ohio, Colorado and other purple states with stupid comments that Perry is making.


Perry is 'nutty', but Obama who wants to put us through another stimulus disaster disguised as a 'jobs' package is okay?

Wake up, people. Turn off MSNBC and step out into reality.

Yeah you are nutty when you want to secede from the US. Also let's wait and see what Obama's "plan" is first before destroying it, eh?

[TonyR]

Why are you so concerned with how people 'look'? Shouldn't you be more concerned about the issues?

If your local community college offers either Elections 101 or Common Sense 101 I suggest you enroll immediately!

[24champ]

Despite the fact that polls show him beating both Perry and Romney. He only loses to a "generic republican". You better figure out who that is!

There's been some polls that show Romney ahead and Romney has a good chance against Obama.

[TonyR]

There's been some polls that show Romney ahead and Romney has a good chance against Obama.

I agree. I've seen them go both ways. But epicflail said Obama won't be "competitive". He's going to be competitive with anybody at this point.

[24champ]

If your local community college offers either Elections 101 or Common Sense 101 I suggest you enroll immediately!

I doubt they offer it, because Governor Perry just did education cuts.

[cutthemdown]

Wait until the repubs make sure Obama starts late on speech. Then have it interupt the football game and places like Wisconsin and LA go repub baby!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Most people don't think that Bernanke is a traitor either.

It's America, its always about how a candidate presents himself. It's why Paul has zero shot. Perry almost came off kind of loony last night. If he keeps that up, his numbers will drop.

Because Independents are not far right loonies that want to systematically abolish SS and other government ran programs. You are not going to win Florida, Ohio, Colorado and other purple states with stupid comments that Perry is making.


Yeah you are nutty when you want to secede from the US. Also let's wait and see what Obama's "plan" is first before destroying it, eh?

Obama as a sitting president has the worst, longest-lasting unemployment numbers in decades. He has presided over the only credit downgrade in US history. I could go on and on.

Obama literally has nothing to run on. He has been a disaster.

We're seeing the repubs under the microscope now because they are campaigning against each other, but just wait until those repub campaign dollars are unleashed on Obama. What is Obama's campaign going to do to retort? "You're all a bunch of racists"?

You guys ain't seen nothing yet. Just wait until its Obama under the microscope and we're all talking about his record as president. He didn't have much of a record to talk about as a congressman, but his record is plain and clear as president. And its a veritable cornucopia of campaign material.

[epicSocialism4tw]

There's been some polls that show Romney ahead and Romney has a good chance against Obama.

Any republican has a good chance against Obama.

[24champ]

Obama as a sitting president has the worst, longest-lasting unemployment numbers in decades. He has presided over the only credit downgrade in US history. I could go on and on.

Obama literally has nothing to run on. He has been a disaster.


Sure Obama compounded the problem, like many of his predecessors have done.

Americans have no need for someone that just has rhetoric, we need someone with solutions. I see maybe 3 candidates that offer solutions, because its not going to be rhetoric that will us out of this economic mess.

[Rohirrim]

Obama as a sitting president has the worst, longest-lasting unemployment numbers in decades. He has presided over the only credit downgrade in US history. I could go on and on.

Obama literally has nothing to run on. He has been a disaster.

We're seeing the repubs under the microscope now because they are campaigning against each other, but just wait until those repub campaign dollars are unleashed on Obama. What is Obama's campaign going to do to retort? "You're all a bunch of racists"?

You guys ain't seen nothing yet. Just wait until its Obama under the microscope and we're all talking about his record as president. He didn't have much of a record to talk about as a congressman, but his record is plain and clear as president. And its a veritable cornucopia of campaign material.

Yep. Your hero, Bush, left this country in smoking ruins. It's like some captain runs his ship up on the rocks, makes the first mate the new captain, abandons ship, and then everybody blames the new guy 'cause he can't get the ship off the rocks. We are where we are because the Republicans pushed through their deregulations of the capitalists, who in turn, gambled away the wealth of our country like a bunch of drunken cowboys.

Meanwhile, Bush was flushing billions down the toilet.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Yep. Your hero, Bush, left this country in smoking ruins. It's like some captain runs his ship up on the rocks, makes the first mate the new captain, abandons ship, and then everybody blames the new guy 'cause he can't get the ship off the rocks. We are where we are because the Republicans pushed through their deregulations of the capitalists, who in turn, gambled away the wealth of our country like a bunch of drunken cowboys.

Meanwhile, Bush was flushing billions down the toilet.

This is how bad Obama has been...all your leftist ilk has to run on is "...BUT BUUUUUUUUUUSH!!!1!!111!!!!"

Well, this just in, guy...Obama's presidency makes Bush look good.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This is how bad Bush has been...all your rightard ilk has to run on is "...BUT BUUUUUUUUUUSH never existed!!!!!!"


Fixed.

[Smiling Assassin27]

What I do recall was Reagan introducing SS taxation, which many forget.

I don't recall him ever suggesting that SS funds be separated from the general fund.

he didn't have to suggest it since it was already done in 1968, however he did nothing to alter this.

[Tombstone RJ]

I agree. I've seen them go both ways. But epicflail said Obama won't be "competitive". He's going to be competitive with anybody at this point.

I disagree. I think the GOP can put a monkey in a clown suit on the platform and he will beat out oba..

[Tombstone RJ]

Yep. Your hero, Bush, left this country in smoking ruins. It's like some captain runs his ship up on the rocks, makes the first mate the new captain, abandons ship, and then everybody blames the new guy 'cause he can't get the ship off the rocks. We are where we are because the Republicans pushed through their deregulations of the capitalists, who in turn, gambled away the wealth of our country like a bunch of drunken cowboys.

Meanwhile, Bush was flushing billions down the toilet.

If this is the best the librals can do then it's a sad day for the oba administration. I can see the libby's campaign slogan now "4 more years to clean up Bush's mess is all we need!"

[Rohirrim]

I disagree. I think the GOP can put a monkey in a clown suit on the platform and he will beat out oba..

Sounds like you watched the debate last night.

[epicSocialism4tw]

If this is the best the librals can do then it's a sad day for the oba administration. I can see the libby's campaign slogan now "4 more years to clean up Bush's mess is all we need!"

Yeah, if they think that Obamas first four years in any way provided reason to vote him into a second term, they need to see a psychiatrist.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Sounds like you watched the debate last night.

^ Racist.

I seriously cant believe you just called Herman Cain a monkey in a suit.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Yes but they didn't call him out for treason. It's a bit different...don't you think?



yup, that's definitely different, but really the same as obama calling Republican budgets un-american. it's all hyperbole and meant to make the evening soundbites. it worked.


He's always tossed rhetoric around, that might work in Texas politics, but its not going to work in Presidential elections. I understand that the Perry team was trying to coach him up to look more Presidential in this debate, and even with that coaching and help, he didn't come off right.



i'm sorry but i don't agree. obama's reliance on rhetoric is what got him elected, not his reliance on policies or specific plans. if the 2008 election shows anything, it's that rhetoric done right can sway the American electorate in a big way. heck, the washington post just ran an article praising Perry for being a good leader during Katrina and other crises. Contrast that with Obama's non-leadership and you've got something.

No he will get smoked because he can't win over the independents. When you have Dick Cheney and Karl Rove, two guys that are pretty far right saying your wrong on Social Security, it should sound the alarms on how nutty Perry is. Social Security is close to being a third rail issue, you cannot just use rhetoric and no plan on that topic.

SS is moving away from being a 3rd rail issue because more candidates are actually willing to have the discussion now. The Tip O'Neills, Ted Kennedys and Dick Gephardts of the world are gone and the issue looms larger than it ever has. I agree that it does little good to rail on SS without having a proposal, but our current president demonstrated that you can get away with it if you are specifically vague.

Oh, and Cheney/Rove are not far right by any means. They are moderates who feel their hold on the party slipping. As such, they instinctively react badly to a guy like Perry. Here's the thing about Independents. They HATE obama. This is what Perry has going for him--he will win the I's because Obama so badly muffed it with them. Perry's doing what Nixon used to do--run to the right in the primaries and run to the center in the generals.

Time will tell, i guess.

[Requiem]

What Do Ya Think Rick Perry? (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20883)

[Mr.Meanie]

Oh, and Cheney/Rove are not far right by any means. They are moderates who feel their hold on the party slipping. As such, they instinctively react badly to a guy like Perry. Here's the thing about Independents. They HATE obama. This is what Perry has going for him--he will win the I's because Obama so badly muffed it with them. Perry's doing what Nixon used to do--run to the right in the primaries and run to the center in the generals.

Time will tell, i guess.

Got to disagree here, I think most Independents aren't as upset with Obama as you think. The liberals are pissed at him because he's too conservative and hasn't pushed a liberal agenda, but they would never vote for Perry anyway. The conservatives are pissed because they think he's too liberal, and they are going to vote for whoever is the R candidate anyway (Romney, IMO). The Independents are exactly who Obama has been courting with his consistently centrist policies.

I think his lowered poll numbers reflect the hatred of the right and disenchantment of the left.

[Requiem]

Perry gets slaughtered in the General Election if he is the guy.

[DenverBrit]

he didn't have to suggest it since it was already done in 1968, however he did nothing to alter this.

Separated, as it was originally.

[Rohirrim]

^ Racist.

I seriously cant believe you just called Herman Cain a monkey in a suit.

Does your mother know you're a pedophile?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Does your mother know you're a pedophile?

That's a weird scenario for you to have thought up. To be expected from you I guess.

As for you being a racist, you really should look to change that about yourself.

[cutthemdown]

Certain states the repubs and dems always win. Like Calif and NY will be Obama, and the bible belt will be Repubs, whoever it is. It comes down to the battleground states where a lot of people just want to vote against Obama. It's going to be tough for him to win the electoral college IMO.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Does your mother know you're a pedophile?

Come to think of it, EpicFail has yet to denounce his party's extensive track record for pedophilia.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Gov. Rick Perry has said Texas can manage on its own, without President Obama's health overhaul. But more than a quarter of Texans lack insurance, the highest rate in the nation.

https://s-external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDeAb19nVjckkxq&w=90&h=90&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fmedia%2Fthumbna ils%2Fstory%2F2011-09%2F64585546-08142036.jpg (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-perry-healthcare-20110908,0,5504019.story)Texas healthcare system withering under Gov. Perry (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-perry-healthcare-20110908,0,5504019.story)

When Texas went to court last year to block President Obama 's healthcare overhaul, Gov. Rick Perry pledged to do everything in his power to "protect our families, taxpayers and medical providers." Texas, he said, could manage its own healthcare.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Gov. Rick Perry has said Texas can manage on its own, without President Obama's health overhaul. But more than a quarter of Texans lack insurance, the highest rate in the nation.

https://s-external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDeAb19nVjckkxq&w=90&h=90&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fmedia%2Fthumbna ils%2Fstory%2F2011-09%2F64585546-08142036.jpg (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-perry-healthcare-20110908,0,5504019.story)Texas healthcare system withering under Gov. Perry (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-perry-healthcare-20110908,0,5504019.story)

When Texas went to court last year to block President Obama 's healthcare overhaul, Gov. Rick Perry pledged to do everything in his power to "protect our families, taxpayers and medical providers." Texas, he said, could manage its own healthcare.

LABF, why are you so worried about Perry when you still have yet to draw a line between yourself and leftist terrorists?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LABF, why are you so worried about Perry when you still have yet to draw a line between yourself and leftist terrorists?

Why stop there, EpicMakeBelieve?

Why not accuse me of maintaining ties with The Church of Satan, or something really hyperbolic like that?

After all, this is what right-wing extremist loons like you do when they're completely out of ammo.

[TonyR]

I disagree. I think the GOP can put a monkey in a clown suit on the platform and he will beat out oba..

Which proves you're as out of your depth in this conversation as epicflail is.

[mhgaffney]

I did not watch the debate -- but heard reports on the news.

Perry's statement that SS is a "Ponzi scheme.." should disqualify him from the presidential race.

The only problem with SS was that the politicians raided the fund.

Why don't we start by prosecuting the bastards who did it? Is that too simple?

Polls show that a vast majority of Americans support SS.

But Perry hails from Texas -- where the he men still smoke Marlboros --

Nuf said/

MHG

[Garcia Bronco]

Nothing wrong with a cigarette.


I just listened to him speak and I don't like him. I would vote for Ron Paul or Mitt out of the group:

[Rigs11]

Nothing wrong with a cigarette.


I just listened to him speak and I don't like him. I would vote for Ron Paul or Mitt out of the group:

I thought mitt did the best out of all of them.perry has way too much of that cowboy swagger.no way he gets independents.

[Rohirrim]

That's a weird scenario for you to have thought up. To be expected from you I guess.

As for you being a racist, you really should look to change that about yourself.

I'm just waiting for you to deny you are a pedophile. I don't understand why you won't do it. Obviously, you have something to hide.

[Smiling Assassin27]

You know when Obama's water carriers admit that SS is a ponzi scheme, that it just might be what Rick Perry says it is:

<script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?embedCode=ltdGRzMjrkqQ_MQthNzY7d-cjCRIo_Qx&height=360&deepLinkEmbedCode=ltdGRzMjrkqQ_MQthNzY7d-cjCRIo_Qx&video_pcode=k4Nmw6Cri746xA2OsoSlngyrIudg&width=480"></script>

[DenverBrit]

You know when Obama's water carriers admit that SS is a ponzi scheme, that it just might be what Rick Perry says it is:

<script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?embedCode=ltdGRzMjrkqQ_MQthNzY7d-cjCRIo_Qx&height=360&deepLinkEmbedCode=ltdGRzMjrkqQ_MQthNzY7d-cjCRIo_Qx&video_pcode=k4Nmw6Cri746xA2OsoSlngyrIudg&width=480"></script>

Much closer to:

commingling n. the act of mixing the funds belonging to one party with those of another party, or, most importantly with funds held in trust for a another.

But Perry is a blowhard and Ponzi is much more inflammatory.

[Tombstone RJ]

Which proves you're as out of your depth in this conversation as epicflail is.

LOL

your boy is a failure bro, don't get mad at me because he's a joke.

[Rohirrim]

LOL

your boy is a failure bro, don't get mad at me because he's a joke.

McCain would have been better? I'm not impressed with Obama, but I wonder if the question should not be phrased - Is Obama not big enough for the problems we face, or are the problems themselves too big for anyone? Add in the fact that our government is now entirely dysfunctional. In our present government, I doubt Obama could pass a resolution to make it Pineapple Day in Hawaii.

I look around and see thirty years of Right Wing domination in our politics. Hell, Bubba was nothing more than a moderate Republican given the facts of his track record (NAFTA, welfare reform, etc). For thirty years, since Reagan, right wing philosophy has ruled. Supply side economics, tax cuts for the rich, deficit spending (exploded under Reagan - even Ron Paul pointed that out - went nuklear under Bush) while cutting social spending (education, welfare, etc), deregulation of Wall Street, etc.

Look around at the smoking ruin of our country. And what is the Right Wing solution? More tax breaks for the rich. More deregulation. More cuts to social programs. It sounds to me like the "Let them eat cake" agenda. Read a history book. Never worked. Never will.

[24champ]

McCain would have been better? I'm not impressed with Obama, but I wonder if the question should not be phrased - Is Obama not big enough for the problems we face, or are the problems themselves too big for anyone? Add in the fact that our government is now entirely dysfunctional. In our present government, I doubt Obama could pass a resolution to make it Pineapple Day in Hawaii.

I look around and see thirty years of Right Wing domination in our politics. Hell, Bubba was nothing more than a moderate Republican given the facts of his track record (NAFTA, welfare reform, etc). For thirty years, since Reagan, right wing philosophy has ruled. Supply side economics, tax cuts for the rich, deficit spending (exploded under Reagan - even Ron Paul pointed that out - went nuklear under Bush) while cutting social spending (education, welfare, etc), deregulation of Wall Street, etc.

Look around at the smoking ruin of our country. And what is the Right Wing solution? More tax breaks for the rich. More deregulation. More cuts to social programs. It sounds to me like the "Let them eat cake" agenda. Read a history book. Never worked. Never will.

Serious question Roh, do you think Hillary would have been a better President?

[Tombstone RJ]

McCain would have been better? I'm not impressed with Obama, but I wonder if the question should not be phrased - Is Obama not big enough for the problems we face, or are the problems themselves too big for anyone? Add in the fact that our government is now entirely dysfunctional. In our present government, I doubt Obama could pass a resolution to make it Pineapple Day in Hawaii.

I look around and see thirty years of Right Wing domination in our politics. Hell, Bubba was nothing more than a moderate Republican given the facts of his track record (NAFTA, welfare reform, etc). For thirty years, since Reagan, right wing philosophy has ruled. Supply side economics, tax cuts for the rich, deficit spending (exploded under Reagan - even Ron Paul pointed that out - went nuklear under Bush) while cutting social spending (education, welfare, etc), deregulation of Wall Street, etc.

Look around at the smoking ruin of our country. And what is the Right Wing solution? More tax breaks for the rich. More deregulation. More cuts to social programs. It sounds to me like the "Let them eat cake" agenda. Read a history book. Never worked. Never will.

This is exactly why McCain would have been better. He proved he could work across party lines and he had good rapport with the Democrats.

[cutthemdown]

Obama didn't exactly come to town wanting to be the guy who brought the parties together. He had a full majority, and the dems basically said screw you repubs we can force what we want down your throats. They even did huge portions of the healthcare through reconciliation which wasn't exactly a lets work together mantra now was it?

Obama had Congress but he decided to be a bully with it. Now he wants everyone to play nice.

Until we get a President who has that power, and still says hey lets work together, it's pretty hollow. Of course he says it now because he has lost power and is facing re-election. I don't buy it though....Obama is a partisan. You can tell by his votes in the Senate where he voted against even raising the debt limit.

[cutthemdown]

MCain has a bigger history of going against his party. IMO at least.

[cutthemdown]

I like Mitt Romney more then Perry at this point. All of them have been wishy washy on some issues at some point, makes it tougher to trust them, but Obama has outright lied also so not like he is honest.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Obama didn't exactly come to town wanting to be the guy who brought the parties together.

ROFL!

Are you kidding me?

The only way he could show more willingness to compromise with the repigs would be to actually switch parties.

[Requiem]

Obama went the back route, Kill bin Laden, another 4 up in the Black House.

[Rohirrim]

Serious question Roh, do you think Hillary would have been a better President?

Definitely. The main thing is she would have wasted no time trying to play games with the Right. She knows exactly who, and what, they are.

[Rohirrim]

This is exactly why McCain would have been better. He proved he could work across party lines and he had good rapport with the Democrats.

I don't know where you've been. Obama has bowed down to the Right more than anybody else would have, time after time. It's gotten him nothing. Here's what the Right considers compromise: The other side completely surrenders. McCain doesn't have the temperament to be president. By now, a vein would have blown in his skull and Palin would be getting ready to resign office and go on a book tour.

[Tombstone RJ]

I don't know where you've been. Obama has bowed down to the Right more than anybody else would have, time after time. It's gotten him nothing. Here's what the Right considers compromise: The other side completely surrenders. McCain doesn't have the temperament to be president. By now, a vein would have blown in his skull and Palin would be getting ready to resign office and go on a book tour.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. IMHO Oba has been nothing but a polarizing president who says one thing and then does the opposit. He and Pelosi made no friends in when they had the majority. Oba got to office, started giving kickbacks to his campaign supporters, immediately grew the fed gov and the national debt and now he is paying for his strong arm tactics.

I'm sorry, he's a hack and a joke, and he comes from a corrupt political background. He's in way over his head, he is NOT a leader and he absolutely has no idea how to work across party lines.

[Rohirrim]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. IMHO Oba has been nothing but a polarizing president who says one thing and then does the opposit. He and Pelosi made no friends in when they had the majority. Oba got to office, started giving kickbacks to his campaign supporters, immediately grew the fed gov and the national debt and now he is paying for his strong arm tactics.

I'm sorry, he's a hack and a joke, and he comes from a corrupt political background. He's in way over his head, he is NOT a leader and he absolutely has no idea how to work across party lines.

I think you're seeing what you want to see.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/perry-elmer.jpg

[epicSocialism4tw]

http://www.bartcop.com/perry-elmer.jpg

Here comes LABF during elections season with his bartcrap images.

Does anyone here actually read what this clown posts?

I mean really. He only shows up during election season. Rinse and repeat.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. IMHO Oba has been nothing but a polarizing president who says one thing and then does the opposit. He and Pelosi made no friends in when they had the majority. Oba got to office, started giving kickbacks to his campaign supporters, immediately grew the fed gov and the national debt and now he is paying for his strong arm tactics.

I'm sorry, he's a hack and a joke, and he comes from a corrupt political background. He's in way over his head, he is NOT a leader and he absolutely has no idea how to work across party lines.

Absolutely.

His only political tool is the Chicago strong arm.

He made his bed and now he gets to lay (or in his case lie) in it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Here comes LABF during elections season with his bartcrap images.


Ditto Monkeys don't like Bartcop.

We get it. :wave:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

He made his bed and now he gets to lay (or in his case lie) in it.

The bed was already burned to a smoking husk by your hero the Toxic Texan before Obama was sworn in, but don't let the facts get in your way.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/gop-no-talent.jpg

[epicSocialism4tw]

http://conservativethinkers.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/obama-marxist.jpg

[Bronx33]

I think you're seeing what you want to see.


Sorry buts hes spot on barry has been an empty suit.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Sorry buts hes spot on barry has been an empty suit.

Just like your hero the Kennebunkport Cowboy.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Just like your hero the Kennebunkport Cowboy.

Yes, Obama is just as bad as Bush...except he managed to increase gas prices, increase inflation, significantly increase unemployment, significantly increase the duration of high unemployment levels, and downgrade the US credit rating for the first time in history.

Its hard to believe that someone could have been worse than Bush, but somehow Obama managed to pull it off easier than anyone could have imagined.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yes, Obama is just as bad as Bush...except he managed to increase gas prices, increase inflation, significantly increase unemployment, significantly increase the duration of high unemployment levels, and downgrade the US credit rating for the first time in history.

Its hard to believe that someone could have been worse than Bush, but somehow Obama managed to pull it off easier than anyone could have imagined.

You're embarrassing yourself now.

Gas prices reached > $4.50 on your hero's watch.

Gas prices were ~$1.00 before your hero took office.

The rest of your claims have been discredited so many times it's ridiculous (not that this fact will ever stop you from repeating them.)

[epicSocialism4tw]

You're embarrassing yourself now.

Gas prices reached > $4.50 on your hero's watch.

Gas prices were ~$1.00 before your hero took office.

The rest of your claims have been discredited so many times it's ridiculous (not that this fact will ever stop you from repeating them.)

Yeah, this thing called 9/11 happened somewhere in there, I can't remember when...

Oh yeah, but you're a troofer so your crazy butt believes that Bush is responsible for that too. Hilarious!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yeah, this thing called 9/11 happened somewhere in there, I can't remember when...

Oh yeah, but you're a troofer so your crazy butt believes that Bush is responsible for that too. Hilarious!

You can always tell a Bush lemming is in trouble when he plays the 9/11 card.

It was Bush's destabilization of the gulf region (and Wall St. insiders taking advantage) that spurred the astronomical rise in crude prices during your hero's reign of corruption - not 9/11.

[epicSocialism4tw]

You can always tell a Bush lemming is in trouble when he plays the 9/11 card.

It was Bush's destabilization of the gulf region (and Wall St. insiders taking advantage) that spurred the astronomical rise in crude prices during your hero's reign of corruption - not 9/11.

You want the troof?

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TROOF!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You want the troof?

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TROOF!

Sort of like you can't handle the challenge of an actual rebuttal?

Nothing new there.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Sort of like you can't handle the challenge of an actual rebuttal?

Nothing new there.

There is no rebuttal for the troof.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

There is no rebuttal for the troof.

Which would explain why you have none.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Which would explain why you have none.

Troof, holmz.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If I repeat the word "troof" often enough, it will eventually make me sound smart and funny, and I win!

Fixed. :wave:

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Fixed. :wave:

That's not fixing anything. You completely changed his entire statment. OOOooooo, I see, that's how you see Obama as a great Prez. You change everything to make it "look" like he did everything right. OOooooo, I see.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That's not fixing anything. You completely changed his entire statment. OOOooooo, I see, that's how you see Obama as a great Prez. You change everything to make it "look" like he did everything right. OOooooo, I see.

Cross-post.

But hey, I'm sure EpicFail appreciates you trying to do the heavy lifting for him.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Cross-post.

But hey, I'm sure EpicFail appreciates you trying to do the heavy lifting for him.

EpicTroof iz all abowt Troof.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Cross-post.

But hey, I'm sure EpicFail appreciates you trying to do the heavy lifting for him.

Learned it from you. Its all part of the Lib playbook. Makes you look like you have more ideas than you really have.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Learned it from you. Its all part of the Lib playbook. Makes you look like you have more ideas than you really have.

So you want to appear to have more ideas than you really have?

Tell me something I don't already know. :wave:

[epicSocialism4tw]

So you want to appear to have more ideas than you really have?

Tell me something I don't already know. :wave:

U reely kno d troof abowt 9-11

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^

EpicNitwit embarrassing himself again.

Just like clockwork.

[epicSocialism4tw]

^

EpicNitwit embarrassing himself again.

Just like clockwork.

A Clockwork Troof.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^

Don't quit your day job.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

^

Don't quit your day job.

He can't. He's got to support your welfare a$$.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

He can't. He's got to support your welfare a$$.

I didn't know Wal-Mart greeters actually got paid.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

He can't. He's got to support your welfare a$$.

What would you know about supporting anyone?

Judging from your posts, you're probably 14 years old.

[BroncoInferno]

A Clockwork Troof.

The only thing more pathetic than EpicFail's uninformed political takes are his painfully unfunny attempts at comedy.

[Pony Boy]

WalMart greeters are mostly retired people that still enjoy working, I hear Dick Cheney really enjoys his job at your local WalMart.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HkDdRlfEXy0?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HkDdRlfEXy0?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

What would you know about supporting anyone?

Judging from your posts, you're probably 14 years old.

I didn't know Wal-Mart greeters actually got paid.

Wow. Two comebacks for one post. Scrapping the bottom of the barrel....of your mind.

And yes Walmart greeters do get paid, so he can't quit or your a$$ will starve without your welfare check. And you do know at 14 people can work, their parent must sign forms allowing minors to work less that 20 hour per week. But I shouldn't expect a Dem to know anything about "work".

[Rohirrim]

WalMart greeters are mostly retired people that still enjoy working, I hear Dick Cheney really enjoys his job at your local WalMart.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HkDdRlfEXy0?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HkDdRlfEXy0?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Enjoy working? Or are forced by economic pressure to continue working?

[Rohirrim]

Yes, Obama is just as bad as Bush...except he managed to increase gas prices, increase inflation, significantly increase unemployment, significantly increase the duration of high unemployment levels, and downgrade the US credit rating for the first time in history.

Its hard to believe that someone could have been worse than Bush, but somehow Obama managed to pull it off easier than anyone could have imagined.

Just the idea that you would blame all these things on one individual proves you are nothing but an ideological hack in the mold of Glenn Beck.

[TheDave]

Well that was a quick little run for president... See ya' Perry.

There is not a snowballs chance in hell this guy is going to survive calling social security an unconstitutional ponzi scheme... Wait until he tries that in Florida.

Looks like were back to Romney.

[BroncoInferno]

Well that was a quick little run for president... See ya' Perry.

There is not a snowballs chance in hell this guy is going to survive calling social security an unconstitutional ponzi scheme... Wait until he tries that in Florida.

Looks like were back to Romney.

It looks that way, but I think Romney's Mormonism is going to cause him some problems in the Deep South given that the GOP base in the region is largely comprised of Evangelicals. That's where Bachmann and Perry could pick up some ground.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme and Rick Perry is not intelligent. End of discussion.

Social Security Is Not A Ponzi Scheme, Private Health Insurance Is

September 15, 2011
By Wendy Gittleson (http://www.addictinginfo.org/author/wendy/)

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ponzi-scheme-300x186.jpg (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/15/social-security-is-not-a-ponzi-scheme-private-health-insurance-is/ponzi-scheme/)

Rick Perry (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/sep/12/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-social-security-ponzi-scheme/) has been making a lot of headlines lately with his claim that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Before 2008, when Bernie Madoff was arrested for his Ponzi scheme, it’s doubtful most Americans had heard the term. Republicans, whose main agenda is to privatize absolutely everything, saw the Madoff scandal as an opportunity. The term ‘Ponzi scheme’ is pithy. It’s easy to remember. It rolls right off the tongue and it fits nicely on a bumper sticker. For the rabid right, it had all the attributes for a great talking point in going after their number one target, Social Security.

It’s working. In a poll (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/15/1017133/-Poll:-Most-Republicans-agree-with-Rick-Perry-on-Social-Security), two thirds of Republicans and nearly half of the general public believes Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

‘Ponzi scheme’ has become synonymous with ‘fraud,’ and there is a certain amount of truth there, but Ponzi schemes are a specific type of fraud. They are similar to pyramid schemes. Ponzi schemes only work when people can convince a lot of investors to participate. Investors are promised huge returns. The closer an investor is to the top of the pyramid, the larger the return. A Ponzi scheme is designed to collapse, leaving the bottom rungs of investors broke.

I’ll grant you that there are a couple of basic similarities between Social Security and Ponzi schemes. They both require a large number of participants whose contributions are paid to other people, but the same could be said of investments in the stock market or money put into bank accounts. In all three of those cases you are loaning your money to the institution in anticipation of a future payout.

That is where the similarities end. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme. There is no expectation of profit, by anyone. The administrators of Social Security don’t profit. Elderly people (those at the “top”) certainly don’t profit, and contrary to popular belief, there is no risk.

According to the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/123xx/doc12375/08-05-Long-TermSocialSecurityProjections.pdf), if we do nothing at all, Social Security will be solvent through 2038 and mostly solvent long past that. That’s if we do nothing. There are a couple of very easy fixes for Social Security. If we eliminate the payroll cap, voila, the system is flush with cash. We do need to do one thing though. We need to do what Al Gore had talked about in 2000, put Social Security in a lock box.

The Bush administration (http://http//www.pottsmerc.com/articles/2010/04/10/opinion/srv0000007947146.txt) had a habit of funding expensive programs, like tax cuts to the wealthy, with the Social Security trust fund. This benefitted them in a couple of ways. It gave them access to quick cash and allowed them to hide the tax cuts from the budget. If we “locked” the fund, or made it impossible to access, it would be safe.

Now that we know that Social Security isn’t a Ponzi scheme, let’s look at one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in the country, private health insurance. Let’s look at what private health insurance does:

First, they recruit large numbers of investors, with a promise of a future payoff that will be much greater than their investment (a bout of cancer will easily exceed your investments into your insurance). – Ponzi scheme

The system is extremely top heavy.

In 2009, insurance executives (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/11/business/la-fi-insurance-salaries-20100811) were paid as much as $110 million. – Ponzi scheme

Health insurance is a very risky investment. A typical health insurance company (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/what-portion-of-premiums-should-insurers-pay-out-in-benefits/) pays out on just 60% of collected premiums. In other words, if you, over a lifetime, pay $100,000 to an insurance company, you can expect to receive about $60,000 in medical care. The rest of your premiums will go to executive compensation, marketing, broker commission and administrative costs. Insurance companies are extremely profitable. During the recession, they have experienced double and even triple digit (http://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2010/11/15/insurance-company-profits-up-41-percent/) increases in profit, while regularly and consistently raising premiums (http://www.healthcare.gov/news/factsheets/ratereview05192011a.html).

How do health insurance companies maintain that type of profit margin? It’s simple. They deny, deny, deny. Health insurance companies are denying about 30% (http://www.correntewire.com/california_ag_investigating_health_insurance_paras ites) of medical claims. In other words, when you invest in health insurance, there is absolutely no guarantee of payout, unless you are at the top of the pyramid. – Ponzi scheme

What is the Republican solution for dealing with Social Security? It is very similar to the private health insurance model. They want to privatize it. They want to invest our dollars in the risky stock market. They want to make it so that the people at the top will make a tremendous amount of profit from our money. They want to make it a very risky program for all those at the bottom. They want to turn Social Security into a Ponzi scheme.

For more on the Republican’s idea for Social Security, see the Chilean Model (http://motherjones.com/politics/2005/03/siren-santiago).

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme and Rick Perry is not intelligent. End of discussion.

Social Security Is Not A Ponzi Scheme, Private Health Insurance Is

September 15, 2011
By Wendy Gittleson (http://www.addictinginfo.org/author/wendy/)

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ponzi-scheme-300x186.jpg (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/15/social-security-is-not-a-ponzi-scheme-private-health-insurance-is/ponzi-scheme/)

Rick Perry (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/sep/12/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-social-security-ponzi-scheme/) has been making a lot of headlines lately with his claim that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Before 2008, when Bernie Madoff was arrested for his Ponzi scheme, it’s doubtful most Americans had heard the term. Republicans, whose main agenda is to privatize absolutely everything, saw the Madoff scandal as an opportunity. The term ‘Ponzi scheme’ is pithy. It’s easy to remember. It rolls right off the tongue and it fits nicely on a bumper sticker. For the rabid right, it had all the attributes for a great talking point in going after their number one target, Social Security.

It’s working. In a poll (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/15/1017133/-Poll:-Most-Republicans-agree-with-Rick-Perry-on-Social-Security), two thirds of Republicans and nearly half of the general public believes Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

‘Ponzi scheme’ has become synonymous with ‘fraud,’ and there is a certain amount of truth there, but Ponzi schemes are a specific type of fraud. They are similar to pyramid schemes. Ponzi schemes only work when people can convince a lot of investors to participate. Investors are promised huge returns. The closer an investor is to the top of the pyramid, the larger the return. A Ponzi scheme is designed to collapse, leaving the bottom rungs of investors broke.

I’ll grant you that there are a couple of basic similarities between Social Security and Ponzi schemes. They both require a large number of participants whose contributions are paid to other people, but the same could be said of investments in the stock market or money put into bank accounts. In all three of those cases you are loaning your money to the institution in anticipation of a future payout.

That is where the similarities end. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme. There is no expectation of profit, by anyone. The administrators of Social Security don’t profit. Elderly people (those at the “top”) certainly don’t profit, and contrary to popular belief, there is no risk.

According to the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/123xx/doc12375/08-05-Long-TermSocialSecurityProjections.pdf), if we do nothing at all, Social Security will be solvent through 2038 and mostly solvent long past that. That’s if we do nothing. There are a couple of very easy fixes for Social Security. If we eliminate the payroll cap, voila, the system is flush with cash. We do need to do one thing though. We need to do what Al Gore had talked about in 2000, put Social Security in a lock box.

The Bush administration (http://http//www.pottsmerc.com/articles/2010/04/10/opinion/srv0000007947146.txt) had a habit of funding expensive programs, like tax cuts to the wealthy, with the Social Security trust fund. This benefitted them in a couple of ways. It gave them access to quick cash and allowed them to hide the tax cuts from the budget. If we “locked” the fund, or made it impossible to access, it would be safe.

Now that we know that Social Security isn’t a Ponzi scheme, let’s look at one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in the country, private health insurance. Let’s look at what private health insurance does:

First, they recruit large numbers of investors, with a promise of a future payoff that will be much greater than their investment (a bout of cancer will easily exceed your investments into your insurance). – Ponzi scheme

The system is extremely top heavy.

In 2009, insurance executives (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/11/business/la-fi-insurance-salaries-20100811) were paid as much as $110 million. – Ponzi scheme

Health insurance is a very risky investment. A typical health insurance company (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/what-portion-of-premiums-should-insurers-pay-out-in-benefits/) pays out on just 60% of collected premiums. In other words, if you, over a lifetime, pay $100,000 to an insurance company, you can expect to receive about $60,000 in medical care. The rest of your premiums will go to executive compensation, marketing, broker commission and administrative costs. Insurance companies are extremely profitable. During the recession, they have experienced double and even triple digit (http://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2010/11/15/insurance-company-profits-up-41-percent/) increases in profit, while regularly and consistently raising premiums (http://www.healthcare.gov/news/factsheets/ratereview05192011a.html).

How do health insurance companies maintain that type of profit margin? It’s simple. They deny, deny, deny. Health insurance companies are denying about 30% (http://www.correntewire.com/california_ag_investigating_health_insurance_paras ites) of medical claims. In other words, when you invest in health insurance, there is absolutely no guarantee of payout, unless you are at the top of the pyramid. – Ponzi scheme

What is the Republican solution for dealing with Social Security? It is very similar to the private health insurance model. They want to privatize it. They want to invest our dollars in the risky stock market. They want to make it so that the people at the top will make a tremendous amount of profit from our money. They want to make it a very risky program for all those at the bottom. They want to turn Social Security into a Ponzi scheme.

For more on the Republican’s idea for Social Security, see the Chilean Model (http://motherjones.com/politics/2005/03/siren-santiago).

Quick question. The first year that people got SS, where did they get the money?

[TonyR]

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters shows Obama picking up 46% of the vote, while Perry earns support from 39%. Fifteen percent (15%) are either undecided or prefer another candidate. Two weeks ago, Perry was up by three. Three weeks ago, the president held a three-point edge over the governor. (To see question wording, click here.)

Now, Perry’s chief rival for the nomination, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, holds a three-point lead on the president. Another GOP hopeful, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, trails Obama by double digits. The fluctuation in Perry's, Romney's and Bachmann’s numbers comes as a Generic Republican maintains a steady lead over the president.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/2012_presidential_matchups

[Rohirrim]

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters shows Obama picking up 46% of the vote, while Perry earns support from 39%. Fifteen percent (15%) are either undecided or prefer another candidate. Two weeks ago, Perry was up by three. Three weeks ago, the president held a three-point edge over the governor. (To see question wording, click here.)

Now, Perry’s chief rival for the nomination, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, holds a three-point lead on the president. Another GOP hopeful, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, trails Obama by double digits. The fluctuation in Perry's, Romney's and Bachmann’s numbers comes as a Generic Republican maintains a steady lead over the president.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/2012_presidential_matchups

The rabid Right assumes that the independents who will decide this election believe all the drivel coming out of Fox Spews the same way that they do.

[TheDave]

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters shows Obama picking up 46% of the vote, while Perry earns support from 39%. Fifteen percent (15%) are either undecided or prefer another candidate. Two weeks ago, Perry was up by three. Three weeks ago, the president held a three-point edge over the governor. (To see question wording, click here.)

Now, Perry’s chief rival for the nomination, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, holds a three-point lead on the president. Another GOP hopeful, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, trails Obama by double digits. The fluctuation in Perry's, Romney's and Bachmann’s numbers comes as a Generic Republican maintains a steady lead over the president.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/2012_presidential_matchups

I really hope the Repubs are smart enough to give Romney the nod... I just don't have much faith in that.

[TonyR]

The rabid Right assumes...

And this poll is particularly bad news for them because Rasmussen is typically GOP biased...

[Arkie]

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters shows Obama picking up 46% of the vote, while Perry earns support from 39%. Fifteen percent (15%) are either undecided or prefer another candidate. Two weeks ago, Perry was up by three. Three weeks ago, the president held a three-point edge over the governor. (To see question wording, click here.)

Now, Perry’s chief rival for the nomination, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, holds a three-point lead on the president. Another GOP hopeful, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, trails Obama by double digits. The fluctuation in Perry's, Romney's and Bachmann’s numbers comes as a Generic Republican maintains a steady lead over the president.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/2012_presidential_matchups

The article failed to mention that Paul only trails Obama by 1 point, polling better than all republicans except Romney.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The rabid Right assumes that the independents who will decide this election believe all the drivel coming out of Fox Spews the same way that they do.

Exactly.

Extreme right-wing nutjobs like EpicFail always seem to believe they represent mainstream America.

[TonyR]

If Perry is the candidate, the choice in 2012 will be between an incrementalist like Obama who is prepared to put entitlement cuts and tax hikes on the table, and a radical who has called social security a "monstrous lie", and wants all the fiscal sacrifice to come from the middle class and poor.

I wish it hadn't come to this. But Obama, to my mind, has successfully demonstrated he has been willing to compromise, and the GOP has successfully demonstrated they cannot. I think most Americans get that...

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/what-the-gop-has-done-to-david-brooks.html

I'm not so sure most Americans do get that...

[epicSocialism4tw]

If Perry is the candidate, the choice in 2012 will be between an incrementalist like Obama who is prepared to put entitlement cuts and tax hikes on the table, and a radical who has called social security a "monstrous lie", and wants all the fiscal sacrifice to come from the middle class and poor.

I wish it hadn't come to this. But Obama, to my mind, has successfully demonstrated he has been willing to compromise, and the GOP has successfully demonstrated they cannot. I think most Americans get that...

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/what-the-gop-has-done-to-david-brooks.html

I'm not so sure most Americans do get that...

What a dadgum moron. Obama a compromiser?

The guy makes Bush look like a professional mediator.

I swear, you guys will convince yourself of anything.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I really hope the Repubs are smart enough to give Romney the nod... I just don't have much faith in that.

What we can all hope is that liberals are smart enough to vote Obama out of office.

They haven't given us any reason to conclude that they are wise or intelligent enough to do such a thing.

A vote for Obama after this disaster of a presidency should be clinical proof of a below-average IQ.

[TonyR]

What a dadgum moron. Obama a compromiser?

So you're seriously suggesting that Obama hasn't compromised numerous times? Seriously?

[epicSocialism4tw]

So you're seriously suggesting that Obama hasn't compromised numerous times? Seriously?

Name them.

The guy pitched a petulant fit like a sugar-deprived brat during the debt ceiling debate and threatened to withhold checks from citizens.

Chicago-style "compromise" isn't much to brag about. Its rather off-putting.

[Rohirrim]

What a dadgum moron. Obama a compromiser?

The guy makes Bush look like a professional mediator.

I swear, you guys will convince yourself of anything.

You have all the perspicacity of a mole rat.

[TonyR]

Name them.

Health care, the Bush tax cut extension, the debt ceiling, on an on..... I mean, seriously? You're really challenging this? You already have very little credibility left on this forum, you sure you want to lose more?

[epicSocialism4tw]

You have all the perspicacity of a mole rat.

^ Another victim of head trauma who is duped into believing that anyone should even consider, much less to actually cast a vote for, Barack Obama for another term.

For you, its partisanship over country.

Be proud, dupe.

[Rohirrim]

^ Another victim of head trauma who is duped into believing that anyone should even consider, much less to actually cast a vote for, Barack Obama for another term.

For you, its partisanship over country.

Be proud, dupe.

I always find it psychologically interesting how often you accuse others of behaviors you engage in on a daily basis.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Health care, the Bush tax cut extension, the debt ceiling, on an on..... I mean, seriously? You're really challenging this? You already have very little credibility left on this forum, you sure you wan't to lose more?

Did you really just cite Obamacare, which was barely passed though a democrat supermajority? Ha!

Holy cow, dude...that actually made me laugh out loud.

Barack Obama could barely bargain within his own party. And he had to lie to get that done.

His ineptitude in bargaining with republicans was shown in full view during the debt ceiling debate, when his strong-arm mob tactics wouldn't be acquiesced by the republicans and then Obama threw a fit! He's like a bully who gets outsmarted by the smart kids.

Obama, his media hoardes, and the entire left wing of the party knew that the repubs had control of 1/3 of the US federal legislature. Their demands had to be met in some form. There had to be a deal. That's how government works. So what's their bargaining tactic? Uncivil strong arm tactics. As close to dictator-style bargaining as he could get.

Dude is no different than Rod Blagojevich.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I always find it psychologically interesting how often you accuse others of behaviors you engage in on a daily basis.

You always find it psychologically interesting that you still can get depends for a reasonable price given how massively Obama has screwed up this economy.

[TonyR]

You always find it psychologically interesting that you still can get depends for a reasonable price given how massively Obama has screwed up this economy.

I find it interesting that you actually believe our economy is "screwed up" because of Obama. Someone who actually believes this shouldn't really be involved in such discussions. Out of your depth.

[TonyR]

Did you really...

Is all that blathering an attempt to avoid answering the simple question about whether or not Obama has compromised? Do you know what the word "compromise" means? Your lack of self awareness, and inability to admit when you're wrong, makes me wonder.

[TonyR]

Perry paints with a startlingly wide brush. “Student campus unrest, rejection of authority, the ‘self-esteem’ movement, moral relativism, and the demands of secularists all gradually fused into a series of attacks on American institutions,” he writes in the book. We learn that he disdains “secular humanism,” the “self-esteem movement,” and youth sports leagues that don't keep score. For good measure, he compares homosexuality to alcoholism, and supports corporal punishment of children. Ultimately, for Perry, the Boy Scouts are the litmus test in adjudicating sides in this culture war. (Perry, it bears mentioning, is a proud Eagle Scout; he’s known to still wear his Eagle pin on the lapel of his suits.) As Perry tells it, the Scouts are at the center of two of the main fronts in the culture war: religion and homosexuality. The group has long barred participation by atheists or “avowed homosexuals.”

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/94878/perry-boy-scouts-on-my-honor-aclu

Some of you would seriously consider voting for this guy?

[TheDave]

Perry paints with a startlingly wide brush. “Student campus unrest, rejection of authority, the ‘self-esteem’ movement, moral relativism, and the demands of secularists all gradually fused into a series of attacks on American institutions,” he writes in the book. We learn that he disdains “secular humanism,” the “self-esteem movement,” and youth sports leagues that don't keep score. For good measure, he compares homosexuality to alcoholism, and supports corporal punishment of children. Ultimately, for Perry, the Boy Scouts are the litmus test in adjudicating sides in this culture war. (Perry, it bears mentioning, is a proud Eagle Scout; he’s known to still wear his Eagle pin on the lapel of his suits.) As Perry tells it, the Scouts are at the center of two of the main fronts in the culture war: religion and homosexuality. The group has long barred participation by atheists or “avowed homosexuals.”

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/94878/perry-boy-scouts-on-my-honor-aclu

Some of you would seriously consider voting for this guy?

At this point I would have to consider anyone, not named Ron Paul. IMO things are that bad. Though I really hope the Repubs don't screw up and nominate perry. I think Obama would win going away if he got the nod.

[peacepipe]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/20/1018371/-Republicans-still-looking-for-better-presidential-candidates?via=blog_1

Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels said Monday that he’s “tried to recruit three or four people” to run for the Republican presidential nomination, and criticized the current field of candidates for failing to present a credible plan to address the budget crisis.
“They should campaign to govern, not just win an election,” Daniels told The New York Times. “The candidate I could get instantly excited about is someone who is willing to level with the American people and assume they are prepared to listen to the mathematical facts and agree that whatever other disagreements we have aren’t as important.”

[epicSocialism4tw]

Is all that blathering an attempt to avoid answering the simple question about whether or not Obama has compromised? Do you know what the word "compromise" means? Your lack of self awareness, and inability to admit when you're wrong, makes me wonder.

You're the goof that called Obama a compromiser.

Obama has polarized people in his own party, much less the other party.

That you would call Obama a compromiser just reveals how in the tank you are for this guy and how incapable you are of seeing things objectively,

[TonyR]

You're the goof...

LOL Do you wear your Eagle pin on your lapel, too?

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

LOL Do you wear your Eagle pin on your lapel, too?

Name me something that obama has compromised on.

[peacepipe]

Name me something that obama has compromised on.

HCR(166 rep amendments)
debt ceiling
stimilus bill
extending the bush tax cuts

[ghwk]

HCR(166 rep amendments)
debt ceiling
stimilus bill
extending the bush tax cuts

Ok there's 4, now you name something the repubs have compromised on.

[Rigs11]

Ok there's 4, now you name something the repubs have compromised on.

crickets:thanku:

[DenverBrit]

Ok there's 4, now you name something the repubs have compromised on.

Sanity?

[epicSocialism4tw]

HCR(166 rep amendments)
debt ceiling
stimilus bill
extending the bush tax cuts

LOL

Just because you keep repeating the same things doesnt make them true.

[TonyR]

Just because you keep repeating the same things doesnt make them true.

How/why are they not true?!?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How/why are they not true?!?

Don't hold your breath waiting for that answer. Ha!

http://www.bartcop.com/bush-idiot-genius.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/perry-jesus-power.jpg

[24champ]

I really hope the Repubs are smart enough to give Romney the nod... I just don't have much faith in that.

Don't fret. Perry’s lead over Romney has shrunk from 11% to 4%.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/ryan-crooked-moron.jpg

[TonyR]

I have not faced the consequences of war up-close and have nothing but awe for those who have. But my own, much more cloistered experience as a war supporter is similar. I will never think of America the same way after the Bush-Cheney administration. They ripped the scales off my eyes; they proved that America isn't, in the end, different; that its core moral principles, such as the prohibition of torture, are nostrums to be tossed aside at the whim of a few very scared and incompetent men; that the rule of law ends when it comes to presidential power, when he can simply order dip**** lawyers to say black is white; when no regret is ever truly expressed about the tens of thousands of Iraqis who died under US occupation; when the architects of these strategic and moral disasters are given legal immunity and peddle books on talkshows defending and bragging of their own awful legacy.

It has sickened me - the lack of morality, the lack of accountability, the constant recourse to mass amnesia. And in a man like Perry, you see all the characteristics of this belligerent, diplomatically autistic, aggressively stupid, and fundamentalist psyche. The dragon we thought we had slain is stalking the land again.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/the-illusion-of-american-exceptionalism-was-shattered.html

[TonyR]

At this point I would have to consider anyone, not named Ron Paul. IMO things are that bad.

I certainly understand the sentiment. Things are a mess. But consider this perspective:

Every time you think the ultras in the current GOP won't go there, they do. They'll sabotage economic growth for short term political advantage. They'll sabotage their own president in negotiating with allies. They're happy for the US to default if it means they can damage Obama. Their own plan for immediate, drastic austerity would be catastrophic for the global economy. Their pre-Arab Spring belligerence would shut America out of a critical opportunity to ease tensions with the growing and burgeoning Muslim world. And they have no problem treating the world economy as a partisan plaything.

If they claw their way back to power this way, our system really will be broken for a long time. And the great possibility of an adult conversation on pragmatic grounds to help the economy will be lost. And this is emphatically not Obama's fault. He tried. They threw it back in his face again and again. Which means, I believe, that we should double down in backing him, instead of the ear-splitting whine coming from the left.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/reality-check-1.html

[TonyR]

By declaring that "as a Christian, I am going to stand with Israel," [Perry] has vindicated Bin Laden's narrative. Across the Muslim world, Perry's policies—starting with his declaration that "it was a mistake to call for an Israeli construction freeze" as a precondition for talks with the Palestinians—would be seen as a Christian-Jewish alliance against Islam.

In the age of Bin Laden, this kind of sectarian bluster would have been bad enough. In the age of the Arab Spring, it's catastrophic. Country after country is grappling with Islam, democracy, and anti-Americanism. The last thing we need is a crusading president who turns the Muslim world against us.

http://www.slate.com/id/2304311/pagenum/all

[Rohirrim]

Perhaps Perry would like to lead a Holy Crusade and reclaim Jerusalem from the heathens?

[epicSocialism4tw]

By declaring that "as a Christian, I am going to stand with Israel," [Perry] has vindicated Bin Laden's narrative. Across the Muslim world, Perry's policies—starting with his declaration that "it was a mistake to call for an Israeli construction freeze" as a precondition for talks with the Palestinians—would be seen as a Christian-Jewish alliance against Islam.

In the age of Bin Laden, this kind of sectarian bluster would have been bad enough. In the age of the Arab Spring, it's catastrophic. Country after country is grappling with Islam, democracy, and anti-Americanism. The last thing we need is a crusading president who turns the Muslim world against us.

http://www.slate.com/id/2304311/pagenum/all

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

You guys and your bigoted fear of Christians are hilarious.

[Rohirrim]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

You guys and your bigoted fear of Christians are hilarious.

Given the facts of the history of Christianity it's probably a good idea to stay on our guard. :~ohyah!:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Given the facts of the history of Christianity it's probably a good idea to stay on our guard.

Yeah, that Mother Theresa Lady was a monster.

Down with Catholic Charities! Ha!

[TailgateNut]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

You guys and your bigoted fear of Christians are hilarious.


1. Christians are nuts (just look at their beliefs)
2. Nuts are not to be trusted.
3. Fear the nuts put in a position of trust.

....or lock the ****ers up in a rubber room.

[epicSocialism4tw]

1. Christians are nuts (just look at their beliefs)
2. Nuts are not to be trusted.
3. Fear the nuts put in a position of trust.

....or lock the ****ers up in a rubber room.

You'd prefer the final solution.

The institutionalized bigotry and intolerance on the left is pretty sick.

[TailgateNut]

You'd prefer the final solution.

The institutionalized bigotry and intolerance on the left is pretty sick.

Actually I'd prefer something else, but I don't want you to **** all over yourself.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Actually I'd prefer something else, but I don't want you to **** all over yourself.

Oh, so you are changing your previous stance that all Christians and Muslims should be killed?

[epicSocialism4tw]

What if your customers knew that you were a violent bigot? Do you think you'd get any business?

[TailgateNut]

Oh, so you are changing your previous stance that all Christians and Muslims should be killed?


I never said that all muslims should be killed. They don't affect the politics and laws of my country.

[TailgateNut]

What if your customers knew that you were a violent bigot? Do you think you'd get any business?


I don't woory about that one iota. I stopped accepting quotes from people who had Bush 04 stickers on their vehicles a long time ago.

[TonyR]

You guys and your bigoted fear of Christians are hilarious.

I don't fear Christians. However, I do fear Christianists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I don't woory about that one iota. I stopped accepting quotes from people who had Bush 04 stickers on their vehicles a long time ago.

You're such a bigot that it affects your business.

That's pretty sad.

[TailgateNut]

You're such a bigot that it affects your business.

That's pretty sad.


It didn't affect my business in a negative way. I feel better not giving money to idiots.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I don't fear Christians. However, I do fear Christianists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.

I don't fear atheists. However, I do fear Atheistists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.

I don't fear secular humanists. However, I do fear Secular Humaistists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.

[epicSocialism4tw]

It didn't affect my business in a negative way. I feel better not giving money to idiots.

Your bigoted attitude is the same type of paranoia-fueled bigoted discriminatory hatred that led to the murder of countless Jews in Germany.

[TailgateNut]

I don't fear atheists. However, I do fear Atheistists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.

I don't fear secular humanists. However, I do fear Secular Humaistists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.


****ing liar. You fear your own shadow.

[TailgateNut]

Your bigoted attitude is the same type of paranoia-fueled bigoted discriminatory hatred that led to the murder of countless Jews in Germany.


Paranoia, my ass. Anyone who listens and responds/ acts on voices in their heads needs to be put on 24/7 watch by professionals.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Paranoia, my ass. Anyone who listens and responds/ acts on voices in their heads needs to be put on 24/7 watch by professionals.

You fear what you don't understand.

Sad.

[TailgateNut]

You fear what you don't understand.

Sad.


Hilarious!

[TonyR]

Hilarious!

I know, right? Clearly no mirrors in his residence. And possibly very little oxygen.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I know, right?

Did you have to check with him to confirm whether or not you 'know'?

[DenverBrit]

I don't fear atheists. However, I do fear Atheistists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.

I don't fear secular humanists. However, I do fear Secular Humaistists who use their warped fundamentalism for political purposes.

The same should be said of fundamentalists....of all religions....who use their warped beliefs for political purposes.

[TheDave]

Once again... I think this board would benefit greatly by occasionally locking a thread.

Never really understood what allowing pages of name calling accomplishes.

[Arkie]

Rick Perry still acts like an Al Gore cheerleading Democrat. After he switched parties, he said "I will still vote the same principles, only with an R after my name." He supported Hillary Clinton's health care plan. He pushed for a federal bailout and stimulus funds. He supported welfare for illegal immigrants. He tried to forcibly vaccinate 12-year-old girls against sexually transmitted diseases by Executive Order. He raised taxes twice. Texas' state debt has more than doubled during his tenure. :nono:

[TonyR]

Rick Perry...

Yes but he's found his religious right grove now so all is forgiven!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yes but he's found his religious right grove now so all is forgiven!

Yep.

The lemmings were willing to look the other way for far worse transgressions when the last Toxic Texan ran for president.

If Perry is nominated, they will fall in behind him in lockstep - just like always.

[TonyR]

Of jobs created in Texas since 2007, 81 percent were taken by newly arrived immigrant workers (legal and illegal).

http://www.frumforum.com/the-texas-non-miracle

[Garcia Bronco]

I can't believe people are seriously considering this guy

[TailgateNut]

Of jobs created in Texas since 2007, 81 percent were taken by newly arrived immigrant workers (legal and illegal).

http://www.frumforum.com/the-texas-non-miracle


It's as if this country is running on "STUPID". Anyon who can give me a good reason why we shouldn't elliminate any and all loopholes which allow employment for illegall immigrants, please speak up.

[TonyR]

I can't believe people are seriously considering this guy

I'm starting to think he's finished. Last night's weak performance may have done him in. Many on the far right are slamming him today. Here's an example:

The cringe-worthiest moment, by a hair, was when Perry botched what should have been his most potent attack on Mitt Romney’s chronic flip-flopping. As I noted on Twitter when it happened, any random high schooler at the CPAC conference in Washington could have done better than this ... Perry said he’s in favor of making English the official language of the U.S. Perhaps he should concentrate on mastering it before the next debate.

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/09/23/video-perrys-cringe-worthiest-debate-moment/

[TheDave]

I'm starting to think he's finished. Last night's weak performance may have done him in. Many on the far right are slamming him today. Here's an example:

The cringe-worthiest moment, by a hair, was when Perry botched what should have been his most potent attack on Mitt Romney’s chronic flip-flopping. As I noted on Twitter when it happened, any random high schooler at the CPAC conference in Washington could have done better than this ... Perry said he’s in favor of making English the official language of the U.S. Perhaps he should concentrate on mastering it before the next debate.

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/09/23/video-perrys-cringe-worthiest-debate-moment/

They know he can't win a general... Unlike 2008 everyone is slowly positioning themselves within reach of Ronmey

[24champ]

I can't believe people are seriously considering this guy

He makes George W Bush look like a great public speaker. He was THAT bad last night. Ha!

[TonyR]

...everyone is slowly positioning themselves within reach of Ronmey

Which is really kind of funny because "conservatives" in general aren't really big fans of Romney. It's almost like they're forcing themselves to be okay with him. I really think they had hope for somebody else to enter the race (Christie? Ryan? Rubio?) or that that Perry or Bachmann would be better candidates than they turned out to be. What concerns me is that the door is now wide open for Palin to enter the race...

Intersting not on Romney:

The most surprising item from the latest New Hampshire primary Suffolk poll was the response to the question, “Do you trust Mitt Romney to say what he believes, even if it is unpopular?” Amazingly, 60% of all respondents said yes. Most of the reactions to the poll have focused on how little support Perry has (8%), and how well Ron Paul (14%) and Huntsman (10%) are doing, but what I find most newsworthy is that most people “very likely” to vote in the primary (62%) don’t perceive Romney to be the famously unprincipled panderer that he is, and conservatives are even more likely to agree that Romney can be trusted to say what he believes.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2011/09/22/romney-and-new-hampshire/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=romney-and-new-hampshire

[TheDave]

Which is really kind of funny because "conservatives" in general aren't really big fans of Romney. It's almost like they're forcing themselves to be okay with him. I really think they had hope for somebody else to enter the race (Christie? Ryan? Rubio?) or that that Perry or Bachmann would be better candidates than they turned out to be. What concerns me is that the door is now wide open for Palin to enter the race...

Inter sting not on Romney:

The most surprising item from the latest New Hampshire primary Suffolk poll was the response to the question, “Do you trust Mitt Romney to say what he believes, even if it is unpopular?” Amazingly, 60% of all respondents said yes. Most of the reactions to the poll have focused on how little support Perry has (8%), and how well Ron Paul (14%) and Huntsman (10%) are doing, but what I find most newsworthy is that most people “very likely” to vote in the primary (62%) don’t perceive Romney to be the famously unprincipled panderer that he is, and conservatives are even more likely to agree that Romney can be trusted to say what he believes.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2011/09/22/romney-and-new-hampshire/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=romney-and-new-hampshire

IMO they are going to do the exact same thing the Dem's did in 2004... Pick the safest candidate to run against a weak incumbent.

There is still a large group that loves Perry but even they know his book would get him crucified in a general. Romney is all that is left at this point. Unless something radical changes they are going to work real hard at forgiving his faults over the next several months.

[24champ]

Perry campaign goes up in smoke.

A more seasoned candidate would be better informed on national security policy, fluent to the point of knowing by heart his chief opponent’s core vulnerabilities, and would never offend his party’s base with such a pointed attack. And a more sure-footed one would have recognized that he couldn’t get away with the claim that he issued an executive order on HPV after being “lobbied” by a cancer victim—because it has been publicly established that he met the victim only after he made the decision.

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-toast-perry-worries-gop-095000881.html

[bronclvr]

http://www.infowars.com/perry-caught-in-blatant-lie-over-support-for-bailouts/

[TonyR]

"I hope Governor Rick Perry enjoyed his six week run as the front runner of the GOP field, because it’s now over," - Pete Wehner, Commentary.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/09/23/romney-perry/

[24champ]

"I hope Governor Rick Perry enjoyed his six week run as the front runner of the GOP field, because it’s now over," - Pete Wehner, Commentary.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/09/23/romney-perry/

Good find Tony. :approve:

If the election were held today, Romney would defeat President Obama, probably in something close to a landslide. And that matters a great deal to Republican primary voters.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If the election were held today, Romney would defeat President Obama, probably in something close to a landslide...


It should be noted that the above quote comes from an op ed piece in a magazine which, according to its own description, is "the flagship of neoconservatism."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/perry-evil-gop-bastards.jpg

[TonyR]

Perry's run looks less like Bill Clinton's 1992 white-knight performance and more like Fred Thompson's 2008 fizzle. This leaves Republicans with the unthinkable: Romney, who ran to the left of Ted Kennedy in 1994 and who could have been Obama's health policy director, is now the most likely man to carry the GOP nomination in 2012. It's Republican history repeating itself. In 2008, John McCain was the man the GOP base would never tolerate. McCain had passed unconstitutional "campaign finance reform," resisted Bush's tax cuts, supported a Ted Kennedy-sponsored "patients' bill of rights," and advocated amnesty for illegal immigrants, among other apostasies.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/despite-obamneycare-mitt-back-command?utm_source=TEMPLATE:%20Washington%20Examin er%20Political%20Digest%20-%2009/26/2011&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington%20Examiner:%20Political%20 Digest

[TonyR]

If conservatives think Christie is the answer to their every prayer, they may be making the same mistake they made with Perry — allowing themselves to become enamored with the idea of Christie, while overlooking who he actually is. Conservatives know the New Jersey governor is a straight-talker who slashes budgets and takes on the public unions and yells at people on YouTube. Which is all great, obviously. But on some issues [immigration, gun control, climate change, Race to the Top, and Islam], Republican primary voters would be in for a rude awakening.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/09/chris_christie_flaws.html

[Rohirrim]

The GOP is in a shambles. Pretty funny, actually. They've been courting the extremist, fundamentalist cracker vote for thirty years and now find themselves chained up like an Alabama junkyard dog. Ha!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The GOP is in a shambles. Pretty funny, actually. They've been courting the extremist, fundamentalist cracker vote for thirty years and now find themselves chained up like an Alabama junkyard dog. Ha!

Ha!

That's why their only recourse is to stay on the attack 24/7/365.

It takes the focus off their abysmal record and their ideological bankruptcy.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Too funny not to post:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BhDhDRvHaGs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[24champ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7TtsjT70eME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Arkie]

LOL That's sad if he's sober.

[Mr.Meanie]

Too funny not to post:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BhDhDRvHaGs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Awesome

[Rohirrim]

Too funny not to post:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BhDhDRvHaGs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hilarious! That's not much different from the reality.

[DomCasual]

Rick Perry seems like a truly bad guy.

[24champ]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mv9LBUG4KsE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ghwk]

Save a pretzel for the gas jets. LMFAO!!!

[TonyR]

[Perry is] down to 4.9 percent now on InTrade; before the debate he was at 9.3 percent. Remember two months ago when he was going to be the guy who saved us from Romney?
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/09/video-perry-implodes/


Watching Rick Perry fail to recall the third part of his own answer in tonight’s debate was like watching a thoroughbred get euthanized on the track. It was shocking, grisly and impossible to look away.
http://swampland.time.com/2011/11/09/the-most-memorable-moment-of-the-gop-primary/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+timeblogs%2Fswampland+%28TIME %3A+Swampland%29&utm_content=Google+Reader


You can stick a fork in [Perry], he's done.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/7379284/rick-perry-rip.thtml

[DenverBrit]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mv9LBUG4KsE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The only man who can make Dubya look like a genius. Ha!

[Rohirrim]

That's the guy I want picking up the phone at 2 AM. :rofl:

[Blart]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mv9LBUG4KsE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Perry's gonna have to execute a bunch of people to cheer himself up after tonight.

[Rigs11]

The repubs are toast.you have perry who is actually dumber than g dubya,romney the flip flopper,Cain the sexual harasser.who's left? Crazy $2 dollar gas bachmman?

[24champ]

The only man who can make Dubya look like a genius. Ha!

I said in this thread that Perry makes W. look like a great speaker.

The far right is going to freak out, Romney has this locked up unless Newt has an incredible rise.

[DenverBrit]

I said in this thread that Perry makes W. look like a great speaker.

The far right is going to freak out, Romney has this locked up unless Newt has an incredible rise.

And you were right. ;D

[Drek]

The repubs are toast.you have perry who is actually dumber than g dubya,romney the flip flopper,Cain the sexual harasser.who's left? Crazy $2 dollar gas bachmman?

Or they all finally rally around Huntsman who would walk away with middle of the road voters unless Obama can effect an economic miracle.

[24champ]

Or they all finally rally around Huntsman who would walk away with middle of the road voters unless Obama can effect an economic miracle.

Huntsman lacks the killer instinct, he is way too nice. He totally screwed up on China last night, wanting to continue the same practices with China as we have for the last 40 years. Wouldn't engage Romney in that debate.

[ghwk]

The repubs are toast.you have perry who is actually dumber than g dubya,romney the flip flopper,Cain the sexual harasser.who's left? Crazy $2 dollar gas bachmman?

And yet they keep getting elected as governors in Texas. Really gives you a good idea of the IQ of the inhabitants of that state.

[Arkie]

Perry's not as good of a puppet as the others. He keeps malfunctioning.