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View Full Version : IN before August 1st; Want to worry about something? here's a candidate.


baja
07-29-2011, 06:35 AM
Stuck in Phoenix, the Epicenter of Housing Crisis
by Barry Wood
Thursday, July 28, 2011

Commentary: It may take years for housing to bloom again in desert


In metropolitan Phoenix, two-thirds of all residential mortgages are underwater. Of these, some 200,000 are 50% larger than the current market value of the properties. Many homeowners have come to doubt whether they'll ever retrieve their lost equity.

In this city of 4 million, the 14th largest in the United States, the median home price is down 53% since the bubble peaked in 2006 to just over $120,000. Only smaller cities such as Las Vegas and Orlando have witnessed equally catastrophic drops.

Paul Hickman, the head of the Arizona Bankers Association, says for Arizona the current recession is worse than the Great Depression of the 1930s. "Then," he told Cronkite News of Arizona State University, "our economy was young and we were just barely a state." Now, he says, Arizona is suffering because it became excessively dependent on a "one-dimensional housing economy."

Phoenix is no stranger to booms and busts. Home prices here fell in the late 1980s after the savings-and-loan debacle brought down several local developers, including the notorious Charles Keating of Keating Five fame. Now 88, Keating lives quietly in Phoenix, having served a 4-year prison term for fraud after his Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989.

The scope and severity of the current crisis easily eclipses that of the '80s and '90s. Phoenix's population is now 45% larger and, as new suburbs encroached ever farther into the desert, residents have been squeezed by long commutes and the sharp run up in gas prices. Housing economist and retired ASU professor Jay Butler says of the current downturn, "nobody thought it could get this bad." He foresees no significant recovery for two more years.

Some local realtors dispute that pessimistic assessment. They point to strong existing home sales in June, up 22% according to the National Association of Realtors. It was the second consecutive month of strong sales, with the June figure the strongest recorded since December 2006.

But while sales may be up, prices are not. The NAR report says the median price of a home sold in the Phoenix area in June was down 13% from the same month in 2010. Realtor Robert Holt expects prices to remain weak because distressed properties are accounting for 64% of sales. With Phoenix having an inventory of over 120,000 empty or foreclosed homes, Holt expects "a tidal wave of foreclosures" will soon hit the market. He says with "overall mortgage delinquencies double and foreclosures eight times higher than historical norms, there is not going to be any easy or quick fix to the housing crisis."

Laurie Goodman, the respected mortgage market analyst at Amherst Securities, sees a similar problem nationally. Alarmed at what she believes is a 30-month supply of distressed properties overhanging the market, she told an American Enterprise Institute conference recently, "we're not making enough progress in liquidating bad loans."

Saying that only 30% of troubled loans have been resolved, she predicts that over the next six years as many as one out of every five mortgage holders in the country could lose their homes. With the number of distressed properties coming to market not keeping pace with a mounting inventory of troubled mortgages, and prospective buyers finding it hard to get credit, Goodman says the normal supply/demand function in housing is broken.

The result, she argues, is a likely boom in rental housing as strategic defaulters and evictees gravitate to cheaper rental homes. "Rental rates are rising," she says, "because renting is the only way to absorb the overhang."

In Phoenix, that is already happening. As home prices declined over the past year, rental rates rose 9%. Nearly half of the distressed homes sold over the past year have been turned into rentals. Michael Trailor, the director of the Arizona Housing Department, says "the shift from home ownership to rentals in the Valley will continue as home ownership shrinks more."

Ironically perhaps, the shift to rentals is occurring while home affordability has improved. With home prices way down and mortgage interest rates very low, this is the best time in at least 20 years to buy. In Phoenix prices have slid back to the levels that prevailed in 1998 or 2000.

Adam Stankus, a hotel manager in Tempe, and his schoolteacher wife are in the enviable position of being prospective buyers in a buyers' market. They hope to purchase the home they currently rent in the suburb of Buckeye for under $50,000. Lucky to have savings equal to a 20% down payment, Stankus believes their monthly mortgage payment will be well below their $800 monthly rent.

The unexpectedly severe downturn over the last five years shows that nobody really knows the future direction of the housing market. Gary Shilling, a respected forecaster, is predicting that prices could fall another 20% nationally, on top of the 30% decline that has already occurred. Mark Zandi, meanwhile, of Moody's Analytics believes we're already bumping along the bottom and that prices could begin to recover next year.

Robert Holt, the north Phoenix realtor, argues persuasively that there won't be a price upturn in his market until the ingredients for a recovery are in place. These, he says, include population growth and an increase in jobs. Currently, that isn't happening. The local unemployment rate is stuck at around 8%. While below the national average, only 4,900 jobs were added in the past year. Given all that, ASU professor Butler says the "housing recovery in Phoenix is likely to improve at only a glacial pace."

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/113212/phoenix-epicenter-housing-crisis-marketwatch?source=patrick.net&mod=realestate-sell#yfi_pf_main

___

Aftermath
07-29-2011, 06:52 AM
This is a FOOTBALL forum for g0dsakes.

baja
07-29-2011, 06:55 AM
This is a FOOTBALL forum for g0dsakes.

August first this will be moved.

I posted this to put in prospective all this hand ringing about not signing a very expensive 'name" DT.

ColoradoDarin
07-29-2011, 06:58 AM
More bad news... Weak Growth Raises Concerns On Economy (http://news.yahoo.com/economic-growth-tepid-spending-flat-123438969.html)

Growth in gross domestic product -- a measure of all goods and services produced within U.S. borders - rose at a 1.3 percent annual rate. First-quarter output was sharply revised down to a 0.4 percent pace from a 1.9 percent increase.
Economists had expected the economy to expand at a 1.8 percent rate in the second quarter. Fourth-quarter growth was revised to a 2.3 percent rate from 3.1 percent.

Dagmar
07-29-2011, 07:02 AM
http://s1.directupload.net/images/110722/ykpcfcvx.gif

baja
07-29-2011, 07:04 AM
http://s1.directupload.net/images/110722/ykpcfcvx.gif

Finally... a good one LOL

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 08:01 AM
I f'ing hate Arizona. Along with NM, they're my least favorite states ever. Miserable places. That'll learn em to make houses in the desert, I guess.

If left to itself, supply and demand will always fix itself. If you have a very high one or the other, you just have to wait for the balance. For this, the simple solution is house prices keep falling until they're cheap enough that more people buy them.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 08:05 AM
I f'ing hate Arizona. Along with NM, they're my least favorite states ever. Miserable places. That'll learn em to make houses in the desert, I guess.

If left to itself, supply and demand will always fix itself. If you have a very high one or the other, you just have to wait for the balance. For this, the simple solution is house prices keep falling until they're cheap enough that more people buy them.

We need some "deflation". I may not be using the proper term, but the costs of things really need to come down in some areas for somethings to rebound.

On the other hand, there are some really good opportunities out there.

I really feel that, things are going to change in this country - and some people are going to have a hard time with it.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 08:13 AM
We need some "deflation". I may not be using the proper term, but the costs of things really need to come down in some areas for somethings to rebound.

On the other hand, there are some really good opportunities out there.

I really feel that, things are going to change in this country - and some people are going to have a hard time with it.

I think in our lifetimes, things will change drastically. I mentioned a standard of living bubble and someone scoffed pretty hard at it but I really think we have one. When the time comes to pay the piper, it'll be interesting to see what's on the other side.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 08:21 AM
I think in our lifetimes, things will change drastically. I mentioned a standard of living bubble and someone scoffed pretty hard at it but I really think we have one. When the time comes to pay the piper, it'll be interesting to see what's on the other side.

It's a big reason i started transitioning things over to "sustainable" measures.

I myself don't need a 2500sq/ft house, etc. I live very modestly. (even when I do make bank).

I'm also looking at buying some property and putting up some shipping container houses:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/latest/shipping-container-homes-460309

That link would give you the concept of how they can be used. Land and land use is far more important to me than "house". As long as it can be comfortable (interestingly, this platform is "scalable").

Not for everyone, but i think it's pretty cool.

I'm also gearing up for food production out of my current apartment.

I'm going to be growing 4 tomato plants (beefsteak, roma) - a few pepper, cuke plants, and some spinach and lettuces.

My Electric bill will go up a little bit, but if I lived in a different place I could have some solar/battery solution to augment the setup (if i had land, i'd have a greenhouse).

It's going to be vastly different - and I've been investing my time in my network and my location for some of the bumps.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 08:30 AM
It's a big reason i started transitioning things over to "sustainable" measures.

I myself don't need a 2500sq/ft house, etc. I live very modestly. (even when I do make bank).

I'm also looking at buying some property and putting up some shipping container houses:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/latest/shipping-container-homes-460309

That link would give you the concept of how they can be used. Land and land use is far more important to me than "house". As long as it can be comfortable (interestingly, this platform is "scalable").

Not for everyone, but i think it's pretty cool.

I'm also gearing up for food production out of my current apartment.

I'm going to be growing 4 tomato plants (beefsteak, roma) - a few pepper, cuke plants, and some spinach and lettuces.

My Electric bill will go up a little bit, but if I lived in a different place I could have some solar/battery solution to augment the setup (if i had land, i'd have a greenhouse).

It's going to be vastly different - and I've been investing my time in my network and my location for some of the bumps.

During my last deployment to Iraq, the show Jericho went around and it often spurred many "Are you prepared?" type discussions. I always thought it was interesting how much the conversations revolved around guns and ammo and not around food storage and sustainable necessities.

It sounds like what you've got going might be a good start and the mentality sound solid but then you think about eating just veggies... ack!

baja
07-29-2011, 08:31 AM
Fed survey: Growth slows across much of the US
Fed survey: Growth slows in much of US, due to weakness in housing and manufacturing


Christopher S. Rugaber, AP Economics Writer, On Wednesday July 27, 2011, 4:31 pm EDT
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The economy worsened in much of the country earlier this summer, hampered by high unemployment, weak home sales and signs of a slowdown in manufacturing.

A survey by the Federal Reserve, released Wednesday, found that weak consumer spending, slow job growth and tight credit are restraining growth into the second half of the year.

Growth slowed in eight of the Fed's 12 bank regions in June and early July, the report found, compared with the spring. That marked the worst showing this year.

The Fed's survey found that factory output weakened in some areas. That's likely to heighten concerns that manufacturing, one of the economy's few bright spots over the past two years, is sputtering.

Further such evidence came in a separate report Wednesday from the Commerce Department, which found that businesses reduced orders for airplanes, autos, heavy machinery and other long-lasting manufactured goods in June.

Orders for durable goods fell 2.1 percent, the department said. It was the second drop in three months. The decline was driven by a big drop in orders for commercial aircraft. Orders for autos, auto parts and computers also fell. And a key category that tracks business investment plans dropped 0.4 percent.

The Fed's report found that the job market remained weak in most of the 12 districts. Hiring was scant, for example, in the Boston district, except among advertising and consulting firms.

Consumer spending improved, aided by a drop in gas prices, which had peaked at nearly $4 a gallon in early May. But auto sales dropped. Supplies at many dealers remained tight because of disruptions stemming from Japan's March 11 earthquake.

Sales of cheaper goods were strong in the Kansas City district, but sales of many luxury items there remained sluggish, the Fed said.

Droughts and severe flooding weakened seven districts with major agricultural sectors, the report said.

Manufacturing output rose overall. But many districts reported only "steady or slowing" growth, the Fed's report said. Only two districts -- Kansas City and Cleveland -- reported rising manufacturing activity. Companies in three districts -- Philadelphia, Richmond and Atlanta -- reported slower growth.

Manufacturers in the Philadelphia region reported a lull in demand, the report said. Companies that make clothing, food, steel and other metals, and electronics reported slower sales, while furniture makers, printers and publishers said demand rose.

The overall dim picture of the national economy echoes recent data on hiring and manufacturing. Economists expect growth for the April-June quarter, which will be reported Friday, will be only 1.7 percent, the second straight quarter of anemic expansion.

In June, employers added only 18,000 jobs, the fewest in nine months. And the unemployment rate rose to 9.2 percent, the highest in a year.

The report, known as the "Beige Book," is based on anecdotal information gathered by officials at the 12 Fed regional banks. It's released eight times a year and provides an on-the-ground snapshot of the economy. Wednesday's report covered the roughly seven weeks between May 28 and July 15.

baja
07-29-2011, 08:33 AM
It's a big reason i started transitioning things over to "sustainable" measures.

I myself don't need a 2500sq/ft house, etc. I live very modestly. (even when I do make bank).

I'm also looking at buying some property and putting up some shipping container houses:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/latest/shipping-container-homes-460309

That link would give you the concept of how they can be used. Land and land use is far more important to me than "house". As long as it can be comfortable (interestingly, this platform is "scalable").

Not for everyone, but i think it's pretty cool.

I'm also gearing up for food production out of my current apartment.

I'm going to be growing 4 tomato plants (beefsteak, roma) - a few pepper, cuke plants, and some spinach and lettuces.

My Electric bill will go up a little bit, but if I lived in a different place I could have some solar/battery solution to augment the setup (if i had land, i'd have a greenhouse).

It's going to be vastly different - and I've been investing my time in my network and my location for some of the bumps.

I have been wanting to buy a few shipping containers for years now but alas not available here in baja.

OABB
07-29-2011, 08:34 AM
im hopefull the system crashes and we all go madmax. then i wont have to watch an orton led broncos team.

Meck77
07-29-2011, 08:39 AM
Reality. The market is moving quickly! Deals are getting done. Contractors are busy again with home renovations. Jobs are being created. Banks are reworking mortgages. First time home buyers are stepping in for an opportunity of a lifetime.

I just hooked a home in Tucson that sold for 345k in 2006. Paid 70k for it.

Opportunity is passing you by as you hide in Mexico with your head buried in the sand waiting for death and destruction of the world.

I agree though. Phoenix blows. ASU SUCKS! GO CATS!

alkemical
07-29-2011, 08:39 AM
During my last deployment to Iraq, the show Jericho went around and it often spurred many "Are you prepared?" type discussions. I always thought it was interesting how much the conversations revolved around guns and ammo and not around food storage and sustainable necessities.

It sounds like what you've got going might be a good start and the mentality sound solid but then you think about eating just veggies... ack!

It's a little hard to raise chickens in an apartment. Where i'm living currently though, I have a large Amish community, lots of local/sustainability farms. So I have access to sheep/lamb, chicken (i barter for chicken), and beef. I'm not a large meat eater (i prefer fishes & fowl).

My best friend also has a hunting dog, and she and I go out and go for duck now and then.

Guns and Ammo are all well and good, but at the same time - being able to provide food is a big thing.

I'm beta testing out my indoor garden this year, and if goes well - i'm going to be stacking vertical racks in the spare room and will easily have 6x more food than my "salad table" will.

Doing that, i'll be able to provide my friends a FSA (friend share). Where I produce X things, they produce X things, etc, etc - therefore - we all have things we want and need.

If I had a greenhouse, I could do bananas and avocados! that would be killer!

I also spent two years as a vegetarian, so JUST eating veggies isn't a big deal (to me). Like I said though, where I picked to live right now - was based upon a level of sustainability.

I also suspect that due to your situation, and whom you were with focused more on "guns & ammo".

But really, without agriculture - civilization wouldn't have been built to the levels it has. (good & bad points).

alkemical
07-29-2011, 08:40 AM
I have been wanting to buy a few shipping containers for years now but alas not available here in baja.

really, what's the difficulty?

baja
07-29-2011, 08:42 AM
im hopefull the system crashes and we all go madmax. then i wont have to watch an orton led broncos team.

Careful what you wish for. ;D

baja
07-29-2011, 08:43 AM
really, what's the difficulty?

None available here everything is trucked by standard trucking.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 08:47 AM
None available here everything is trucked by standard trucking.

Gotchya - totally understand.

baja
07-29-2011, 08:54 AM
Reality. The market is moving quickly! Deals are getting done. Contractors are busy again with home renovations. Jobs are being created. Banks are reworking mortgages. First time home buyers are stepping in for an opportunity of a lifetime.

I just hooked a home in Tucson that sold for 345k in 2006. Paid 70k for it.

Opportunity is passing you by as you hide in Mexico with your head buried in the sand waiting for death.

I agree though. Phoenix blows. ASU SUCKS! GO CATS!

If everyone had your resources we wouldn't have a problem but you don't see it that way do.

Everything is great because you snapped up a house for 70 grand.

No consideration for the impact on the family that paid the 360 grand and lost the house, maybe they are living in their car but not concern of yours you gat a bargin.

You are a hypocrite mister brotherly love.

Opportunity abounds for the already rich ass . hole.

"F" off Muck

Meck77
07-29-2011, 09:04 AM
If everyone had your resources we wouldn't have a problem but you don't see it that way do.

Everything is great because you snapped up a house for 70 grand.

No consideration for the impact on the family that paid the 360 grand and lost the house, maybe they are living in their car but not concern of yours you gat a bargin.

You are a hypocrite mister brotherly love.

Opportunity abounds for the already rich ass . hole.

"F" off Muck

Yeah it sucks for some families. The reality is thousands of homes were snatched up by "Greedy" rich aholes as investments and they are tossing them in. Yes there are winners and losers. I know people in Tucson who foreclosed for 300k and are now buying in at 100k.

The people that owned my home lived there for forever. Died peacefully of old age. Probably did a cash out refi on their way out. The kids were too lazy to even rent their house and it went into foreclosure.

Like you really give a **** about anyone in America. You left here to go hide in Mexico.

Steve Sewell
07-29-2011, 09:23 AM
I think in our lifetimes, things will change drastically. I mentioned a standard of living bubble and someone scoffed pretty hard at it but I really think we have one. When the time comes to pay the piper, it'll be interesting to see what's on the other side.

It seems like prices and general cost of living nowadays are based on the assumption that average families have two incomes and a bunch of credit cards. While this might be seen as a positive as it relates to equality in the workforce, I think it is having an incredibly damaging impact on the overall family dynamic in this country.

I'm only 34 years old, but I can count on one hand the number of kids I grew up with that didn't have a stay at home parent...and this is just from a little over 20 years ago.

I think the general feeling for people right now is that they're working their asses off at the expense of their quality of life. Its very depressing to look at my own families situation and see no end in sight because bills and expenses are just through the roof. And this is coming from someone who has very little debt other than my mortgage. I can't imagine what it must be like for folks in heavy credit card debt (we don't even have a credit card!) For my wife to quit her (low paying) job to stay home with our kids, we would have to make pretty severe changes to our standard of living...and it just shouldn't be this way. This is not the "American Dream"...it is more of a nightmare if you ask me.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 09:24 AM
If everyone had your resources we wouldn't have a problem but you don't see it that way do.

Everything is great because you snapped up a house for 70 grand.

No consideration for the impact on the family that paid the 360 grand and lost the house, maybe they are living in their car but not concern of yours you gat a bargin.

You are a hypocrite mister brotherly love.

Opportunity abounds for the already rich ass . hole.

"F" off Muck

I believe I saw that a big problem with the housing market right now is people don't want to pay off that mortgage they got for $300K if the house is only worth $160K now. They'd rather ruin their credit than waste $140K.

As he mentioned, there's also all the investment that skyrocketed housing prices and they threw them back in when the investment wasn't there. Everyone who ever read 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' was a real estate investor so there's a lot of houses out there for various reasons.

And, finally, I think it was one of your links that said Americans pre-bust were up to a 3 or 4 to 1 salary to home value ratio when the national average for quite some time had been 1.5-2 to 1. It's not hard to see there that house prices were going up too fast. You take risk in investments and sometimes you lose.

Carmelo15
07-29-2011, 09:58 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1Y2lHx-Kr8s/Tf7GF85G6HI/AAAAAAAADVk/QGK4copY49k/s1600/mccain%2Bpuppet.jpg

TailgateNut
07-29-2011, 10:06 AM
I believe I saw that a big problem with the housing market right now is people don't want to pay off that mortgage they got for $300K if the house is only worth $160K now. They'd rather ruin their credit than waste $140K.

As he mentioned, there's also all the investment that skyrocketed housing prices and they threw them back in when the investment wasn't there. Everyone who ever read 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' was a real estate investor so there's a lot of houses out there for various reasons.

And, finally, I think it was one of your links that said Americans pre-bust were up to a 3 or 4 to 1 salary to home value ratio when the national average for quite some time had been 1.5-2 to 1. It's not hard to see there that house prices were going up too fast. You take risk in investments and sometimes you lose.


Many of those who are "upside down" are just walking away even if they can afford the monthly payments. Rent for a few years, and your credit ratings are restored with an *.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 10:07 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1Y2lHx-Kr8s/Tf7GF85G6HI/AAAAAAAADVk/QGK4copY49k/s1600/mccain%2Bpuppet.jpg

Thanks?

alkemical
07-29-2011, 10:18 AM
It seems like prices and general cost of living nowadays are based on the assumption that average families have two incomes and a bunch of credit cards. While this might be seen as a positive as it relates to equality in the workforce, I think it is having an incredibly damaging impact on the overall family dynamic in this country.

I'm only 34 years old, but I can count on one hand the number of kids I grew up with that didn't have a stay at home parent...and this is just from a little over 20 years ago.

I think the general feeling for people right now is that they're working their asses off at the expense of their quality of life. Its very depressing to look at my own families situation and see no end in sight because bills and expenses are just through the roof. And this is coming from someone who has very little debt other than my mortgage. I can't imagine what it must be like for folks in heavy credit card debt (we don't even have a credit card!) For my wife to quit her (low paying) job to stay home with our kids, we would have to make pretty severe changes to our standard of living...and it just shouldn't be this way. This is not the "American Dream"...it is more of a nightmare if you ask me.


I want to address the "American Dream". The American Dream was: Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

But something happened along the way, and that dream was replaced by advertisements.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 10:42 AM
It seems like prices and general cost of living nowadays are based on the assumption that average families have two incomes and a bunch of credit cards. While this might be seen as a positive as it relates to equality in the workforce, I think it is having an incredibly damaging impact on the overall family dynamic in this country.

I'm only 34 years old, but I can count on one hand the number of kids I grew up with that didn't have a stay at home parent...and this is just from a little over 20 years ago.

I think the general feeling for people right now is that they're working their asses off at the expense of their quality of life. Its very depressing to look at my own families situation and see no end in sight because bills and expenses are just through the roof. And this is coming from someone who has very little debt other than my mortgage. I can't imagine what it must be like for folks in heavy credit card debt (we don't even have a credit card!) For my wife to quit her (low paying) job to stay home with our kids, we would have to make pretty severe changes to our standard of living...and it just shouldn't be this way. This is not the "American Dream"...it is more of a nightmare if you ask me.

It really shouldn't be that hard though, honestly. It's obviously dependent upon what the first paycheck is and I think once you move up the standard of living ladder, it may feel impossible to move back down, but it's all about living within your means. Then, once you get everything settled, you can try saving some and getting those nicer things. Currently there's so many credit options that we decide on a whim we want a new car, boat, or bigger house and can have it. Then we're indebted to the lifestyle.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 10:45 AM
It really shouldn't be that hard though, honestly. It's obviously dependent upon what the first paycheck is and I think once you move up the standard of living ladder, it may feel impossible to move back down, but it's all about living within your means. Then, once you get everything settled, you can try saving some and getting those nicer things. Currently there's so many credit options that we decide on a whim we want a new car, boat, or bigger house and can have it. Then we're indebted to the lifestyle.


Things change man. What "used to be easy", isn't.

Everything's going up, but pay.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 10:47 AM
I want to address the "American Dream". The American Dream was: Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

But something happened along the way, and that dream was replaced by advertisements.

But if YOU believe, your dreams are there for the taking. You can only control yourself and you alone can choose who can control you.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 10:48 AM
But if YOU believe, your dreams are there for the taking. You can only control yourself and you alone can choose who can control you.

Dreams don't pay the rent. You don't control other people.

It's that dream that keeps ya taking it in the ass from the government, your boss, etc.

I think it's called "Kick the cat syndrome"

Requiem
07-29-2011, 10:49 AM
Another fag thread.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 10:51 AM
Another fag thread.

Wow, you came out of the closet!!

Congrats Req!

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 10:55 AM
Dreams don't pay the rent. You don't control other people.

It's that dream that keeps ya taking it in the ass from the government, your boss, etc.

I think it's called "Kick the cat syndrome"

My uncle is a carpenter of 30+ years. He still makes $9 an hour. I cringe when I go to his house (or did before it burnt down) because his conditions weren't what I was used to. He was used to it though. His wife usually doesn't work. He sells chickens, ducks, and goats that he raises in his backyard.

His cars suck, his house sucks, his health pretty much sucks... but he's the most laid back person I've ever known, everyone enjoys his presence, and I believe he's genuinely happy. Sometimes he needs to borrow money, sure, but I'm always willing to help because I'm more capable than he is financially and I'm willing to help because I know there isn't a thing in the world I could ask of him that he wouldn't try to help in return.

To me, he lives his dreams. They may not be MY dreams. But that just tells me my dreams are more than are necessary.

Requiem
07-29-2011, 10:56 AM
Wow, you came out of the closet!!

Congrats Req!

http://files.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/11_Blogs/110728_franklin_blog.jpg

This guy is going to eat you.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 10:58 AM
My uncle is a carpenter of 30+ years. He still makes $9 an hour. I cringe when I go to his house (or did before it burnt down) because his conditions weren't what I was used to. He was used to it though. His wife usually doesn't work. He sells chickens, ducks, and goats that he raises in his backyard.

His cars suck, his house sucks, his health pretty much sucks... but he's the most laid back person I've ever known, everyone enjoys his presence, and I believe he's genuinely happy. Sometimes he needs to borrow money, sure, but I'm always willing to help because I'm more capable than he is financially and I'm willing to help because I know there isn't a thing in the world I could ask of him that he wouldn't try to help in return.

To me, he lives his dreams. They may not be MY dreams. But that just tells me my dreams are more than are necessary.


Once I woke up, i gave up dreaming.... ;)

alkemical
07-29-2011, 10:58 AM
http://files.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/11_Blogs/110728_franklin_blog.jpg

This guy is going to eat you.

I must be blocked from the gay.

(filters)

hahahaha

alkemical
07-29-2011, 11:07 AM
Baja,

Have you ever seen 'Fight Club'?

You should. :D

Meck77
07-29-2011, 11:44 AM
Many of those who are "upside down" are just walking away even if they can afford the monthly payments. Rent for a few years, and your credit ratings are restored with an *.

Exactly and why wouldn't they. Mexican boy doesn't realize that for everyone that walks away willingly there is another family to step who gets a screaming deal. Preference is being given to people who will occupy these homes over investors/bidders who want to flip.

The American dream is happening each day. As Amesj pointed out the deflation is exactly what America needs to stabilize this economy. The values were just not sustainable. The more the government has tried to prop them up it just delays the inevitable. The market is sifting itself out.

alkemical
07-29-2011, 11:46 AM
Exactly and why wouldn't they. Mexican boy doesn't realize that for everyone that walks away willingly there is another family to step who gets a screaming deal. Preference is being given to people who will occupy these homes over investors/bidders who want to flip.

The American dream is happening each day. As Amesj pointed out the deflation is exactly what America needs to stabilize this economy. The values were just not sustainable. The more the government has tried to prop them up it just delays the inevitable. The market is sifting itself out.


I don't know how it works in other states, but the state I'm living in at present has a ****ed up little game:

The school boards basically "set" the school tax/property tax rates for each "town".

So, they constantly reassess (increasing value) properties, so they can increase the taxes.

Pontius Pirate
07-29-2011, 12:29 PM
Wanna know why the housing market is worse off in Phoenix than other parts of the country? I'll tell you:

Politics.

Specifically, AZ politics. As others have alluded to, the elected officials in AZ have been too busy with xenophobia & isolationism to really address the housing market issue. While the Phoenix housing inventory bloomed under their eyes, and then busted, people like Jan Brewer, John McCain, Jon Kyl, Andy Biggs, Joe Arpaio, Jon Kavanaugh, Russell Pearce etc. - they have all been busy trying to make it illegal to be brown, trying to kill off Medicaid, trying to pass laws requiring Presidential candidates to provide proof of circumcision, etc.

What they SHOULD have been doing is figuring out how to get jobs into the state, which would help the economy there + help the housing market. But big national corporations typically don't like to set up shop in an environment where the politicians are inept and insane.

Put succintly, in the words of gawker.com, AZ is a "foreclosed stucco race-warring hellscape, a bitterly dystopian prank from God where the only laws that exist are ones that Steven Seagal can enforce from a tank for his dumb reality TV show"

alkemical
07-29-2011, 12:40 PM
Wanna know why the housing market is worse off in Phoenix than other parts of the country? I'll tell you:

Politics.

Specifically, AZ politics. As others have alluded to, the elected officials in AZ have been too busy with xenophobia & isolationism to really address the housing market issue. While the Phoenix housing inventory bloomed under their eyes, and then busted, people like Jan Brewer, John McCain, Jon Kyl, Andy Biggs, Joe Arpaio, Jon Kavanaugh, Russell Pearce etc. - they have all been busy trying to make it illegal to be brown, trying to kill off Medicaid, trying to pass laws requiring Presidential candidates to provide proof of circumcision, etc.

What they SHOULD have been doing is figuring out how to get jobs into the state, which would help the economy there + help the housing market. But big national corporations typically don't like to set up shop in an environment where the politicians are inept and insane.

Put succintly, in the words of gawker.com, AZ is a "foreclosed stucco race-warring hellscape, a bitterly dystopian prank from God where the only laws that exist are ones that Steven Seagal can enforce from a tank for his dumb reality TV show"

Sounds like MX...

:D

baja
07-29-2011, 03:15 PM
Another fag thread.


Ya know I once saw you as a promising young man, not any more.

baja
07-29-2011, 03:30 PM
Wanna know why the housing market is worse off in Phoenix than other parts of the country? I'll tell you:

Politics.

Specifically, AZ politics. As others have alluded to, the elected officials in AZ have been too busy with xenophobia & isolationism to really address the housing market issue. While the Phoenix housing inventory bloomed under their eyes, and then busted, people like Jan Brewer, John McCain, Jon Kyl, Andy Biggs, Joe Arpaio, Jon Kavanaugh, Russell Pearce etc. - they have all been busy trying to make it illegal to be brown, trying to kill off Medicaid, trying to pass laws requiring Presidential candidates to provide proof of circumcision, etc.

What they SHOULD have been doing is figuring out how to get jobs into the state, which would help the economy there + help the housing market. But big national corporations typically don't like to set up shop in an environment where the politicians are inept and insane.

Put succintly, in the words of gawker.com, AZ is a "foreclosed stucco race-warring hellscape, a bitterly dystopian prank from God where the only laws that exist are ones that Steven Seagal can enforce from a tank for his dumb reality TV show"

Not that I disagree with you but Los Vegas and parts of Florida are in even worse shape, how do you explain that?

Perry1977
07-29-2011, 03:37 PM
Guns and Ammo are all well and good, but at the same time - being able to provide food is a big thing.

Yes. Someone with a gun can just kill you and take your food. So you need both.

baja
07-29-2011, 03:41 PM
Exactly and why wouldn't they. <b>Mexican boy </b>doesn't realize that for everyone that walks away willingly there is another family to step who gets a screaming deal. Preference is being given to people who will occupy these homes over investors/bidders who want to flip.

The American dream is happening each day. As Amesj pointed out the deflation is exactly what America needs to stabilize this economy. The values were just not sustainable. The more the government has tried to prop them up it just delays the inevitable. The market is sifting itself out.

Unfortunately you are obtuse enough to buy into nationalism which precludes any intelligent conversation about the problems we all share. This financial situation is a global problem and will only be solved when we the people come together and solve it. All you can manage is to insult me because of my mailing address. Sad really.

This is not a political issue it's a people issue. Until we all realize this we will continue to spiral down the tube.

Don't believe me read the history of the Roman empire, The British Empire, France and Spain. This is not a new event we are experiencing.

REMEMBER THIS;

"We are the ones we have been waiting for"

Pontius Pirate
07-29-2011, 07:57 PM
Not that I disagree with you but Los Vegas and parts of Florida are in even worse shape, how do you explain that?

I don't know Las Vegas and Florida as well as AZ so you should ask someone from those states.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 08:23 PM
Not that I disagree with you but Los Vegas and parts of Florida are in even worse shape, how do you explain that?

Just a theory:

Both Florida and LV are based on successful economies everywhere else.

Florida: People who previously lived in misery in BFE and had owned their homes for 30 years were able to sell them for a major profit and buy condos in FL where they were being built as fast as they could be made. Condos were quite literally being built on every corner. When those other markets go down and those houses aren't bringing such a profit, you can't do that anymore. Also, a LOT of old folks buy houses for the winter and when things went south, the second house was a luxury. Finally, when housing prices were relatively higher, immigrants were confined to their enclaves of cheap housing and dangerous neighborhoods. When the boom happened, housing went up in areas away from those dangerous neighborhoods and the prices prevented the immigrants from spreading. Once the prices dropped, suddenly everyone was "movin' on up" and the immigrants spread. There's entire areas that used to be $300K homes now down in the $100K level because the people that could afford more wont move in since the immigrants have taken over. As the immigrants move in, they ruin the school districts, and everyone within the entire district flees as the school grades fall. This cycle just keeps going as the better off people try to run from the worse off. Eventually, they just leave Florida when they realize the immigrants will chase you in circles but there's more of them than you can outrun.

LV: LV is similar in that money is brought in from elsewhere. There's money moving around in Vegas but it comes from elsewhere. When those others don't have the spare money to go blow, it falls apart. It's just like any tourist destination when the usual customers fall on hard times. Look at just how bad some Vegas casino stocks did and you'll see just how hard the city was hit. (I've never been to Vegas but I was into casino stocks for some time so that's the basis of this theory.)

alkemical
07-29-2011, 09:12 PM
now would be a good time to open a dehydrated water company in the southwest.

That One Guy
07-29-2011, 09:20 PM
now would be a good time to open a dehydrated water company in the southwest.

dehydrated water?

You mean oxygen?

baja
07-29-2011, 10:25 PM
Clouds?

alkemical
07-30-2011, 07:05 AM
hahaha, no. i guess the idea of dehydrated water is only funny to me.

usually you have to rehydrate (just add water!) dehydrated things. ;)