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Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 01:39 PM
Sorry if it's a repost.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18568906

Is this fluff for trade stock, or is it for real? It's only the first day of practice.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 01:41 PM
So when Orton inevitably has a bad practice and Tebow has a good one are we going to have a full article on it?

RaiderH8r
07-28-2011, 01:41 PM
Yes. The Broncos PR office has been saying this stuff since the final whistle of last season. I love it but I'm not banking it.

Stagger Lee
07-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Kyle's always been great in practice. It's 3rd downs and 4th quarters that he struggles with.

strafen
07-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Smoke screen.
They're trying to uphold his value as much as they can.
Having Tebow take snaps with the first unit, sends the wrong message and we'd lose leverage, especially when the Broncos are rumored to be asking a 2nd for Orton... ;)

Rabb
07-28-2011, 01:42 PM
So when Orton inevitably has a bad practice and Tebow has a good one are we going to have a full article on it?

except a certain crowd here will say it was only one practice...even though they won't say that today

let the better man win, it's our D that concerns me....we don't get on the DT train soon, it won't matter who our QB is

TDmvp
07-28-2011, 01:43 PM
Yea Orton's great in practice , it's when there is actual tacklers around him is when he seems to have issues.

Dedhed
07-28-2011, 01:44 PM
This is less surprising than the sun coming up this morning. Bodes well for trade negotiations.

Quoydogs
07-28-2011, 01:44 PM
Sorry if it's a repost.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18568906

Is this fluff for trade stock, or is it for real? It's only the first day of practice.

Orton is fine when the game is not on the line. He is good between the 40's but that is it.

He folds under pressure, he can't escape a defender in fact I heard the other teams were practicing making scary faces in the mirror so they could just scare him into a sack. I think they have a bet going.

Plain and simple, he is not a leader. He is a game manager and the broncos are not that team. Never have been until stupid Mcdushbag came here. I want the old Broncos back. You know the ones that were always in the game no matter how bad it got. The ones were people were afraid of coming to our house. Smash mouth football is what we need and Orton is not that.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 01:46 PM
except a certain crowd here will say it was only one practice...even though they won't say that today

let the better man win, it's our D that concerns me....we don't get on the DT train soon, it won't matter who our QB is

Exactly! enough with signing scrubs get us some studs on the D line

Mountain Bronco
07-28-2011, 01:50 PM
Practice, we talkin about practice?????? Seriously though, Kyle Orton is an exceptional practice player and a decent game day player (yes, he is a decent QB and with the proper running game and D he can be a winning QB). Tebow is probably never going to be a practice machine because it is a controlled setting and doesn't let him show his intangibles.

I would prefer to see Tebow start because I want to see more of what he has as I already know what Orton has.

MVP-06
07-28-2011, 01:52 PM
We all know that Orton is a accurate passer when nobody is rushing him. The second someone penetrates the line he folds like a lawn chair. I'll ride with Tebow, he's a gamer.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 01:52 PM
So basically there have been no 3rd / 4th downs, no redzone situations, and no need to scramble. Yay.

Peoples Champ
07-28-2011, 01:53 PM
i heard the practice was 80% running the ball and 20% passing

PRBronco
07-28-2011, 01:54 PM
Meh, it's just the first day of practice, who cares? Thanks to the DP for "Kolbing" him though :)

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 01:54 PM
He always looks good in practice.

TD30
07-28-2011, 02:01 PM
i heard the practice was 80% running the ball and 20% passing

this ^ they were talking about what a joke some of the hype was they actually said that the best passer out there was Quinn

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 02:01 PM
Orton is fine when the game is not on the line. He is good between the 40's but that is it.


"in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90."

and for all the 3rd down crap he takes:

"Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on)."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 02:03 PM
How many of these great stats have come with the game on the line or "close and late" as they say in baseball?

Not many!

Take your fantasy football hats off, people!

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 02:03 PM
Practice, we talkin about practice?????? Seriously though, Kyle Orton is an exceptional practice player and a decent game day player (yes, he is a decent QB and with the proper running game and D he can be a winning QB). Tebow is probably never going to be a practice machine because it is a controlled setting and doesn't let him show his intangibles.

I would prefer to see Tebow start because I want to see more of what he has as I already know what Orton has.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eGDBR2L5kzI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 02:05 PM
"in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90."

and for all the 3rd down crap he takes:

"Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on)."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

It's all about perception, dude. People perceive Tebow as an Elway type and automatically assume he was better then Orton. They don't look at the stats. As of right now, it sound like Orton is a better QB.

oldustyballs
07-28-2011, 02:07 PM
Wait are they sure it was Brady Quinn that said this?

Quinn also had the first day's best line. Asked if there was any tension between Orton and Tebow, Quinn said: "Look, if you're going to ask questions about football, ask questions about football. I'm not here to talk about anyone's relationship status. Save that for Twitter or Facebook or some message board."

Because that statement was completely non-gay.

zdoor
07-28-2011, 02:08 PM
Since there is no touching a QB in practice, Orton shines. It's his total lack of athletic ability and 6 second 40 that make him crumble under pressure...

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 02:09 PM
Watching NFL network right now... Michelle Beisner just interviewed Orton:

"I'm here to compete for the starting job, and I like my chances if they let me" - Kyle Orton

Lolad
07-28-2011, 02:11 PM
"in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90."

and for all the 3rd down crap he takes:

"Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on)."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

what about red zone efficiency? We already know he doesn't make mistakes in the red zone but he also doesn't do enough to get the TD either. Hence the reason for our ppg the past 2 seasons he's been our starting QB

TailgateNut
07-28-2011, 02:11 PM
Smoke screen.
They're trying to uphold his value as much as they can.
Having Tebow take snaps with the first unit, sends the wrong message and we'd lose leverage, especially when the Broncos are rumored to be asking a 2nd for Orton... ;)

so, will they send this message until the trade deadline, which, in turn, would limit tebows time with the starting line-up?ROFL!

Quoydogs
07-28-2011, 02:12 PM
"in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90."

and for all the 3rd down crap he takes:

"Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on)."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40


I don't care what you say and all the stats you have.

Tebow scores TD's
Orton does not.

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Orton's also gotta be right up there in the league lead for 3rd down sacks taken to knock you out of FG range.

He needs to be traded before some crazed fan goes Jeff Gillooly on his ass at camp.

BMarsh615
07-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Orton trade talks between the Broncos and Dolphins are not dead, but they don't appear to be hot, either. Contrary to reports, the hang up is more about Orton's contract than a disagreement over

draft-pick compensation, according to two NFL sources.



One problem is the new CBA procedures don't allow teams to restructure contracts until 4:01 p.m. MDT today. Orton has one year at roughly $8.829 million left on his contract. Perhaps when the transition contract period opens at 4:01, Orton trade talks will heat up.


Would Klis get better info than John Clayton?

Pick Six
07-28-2011, 02:13 PM
so, will they send this message until the trade deadline, which, in turn, would limit tebows time with the starting line-up?ROFL!

This year doesn't matter. Didn't you get the memo? It's all about giving Tebow the reins, so that we can draft someone even MORE inexperienced, next year (Luck)...Hilarious!

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 02:14 PM
"Denver is not going to vy for a playoff spot this year in my humble opinion. They played horrible defense, they can't run the ball - they'll improve on both fronts this year. John Fox needs to make a decision - he needs to ask himself, 'Are we better off with Tim Tebow in there at 6-10, or are we better off with Orton in there and going 8-8.'"

- Tom Waddle on NFLN

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 02:14 PM
Watch Orton's redzone production against Indy last year. All you need to know.

mkporter
07-28-2011, 02:15 PM
Orton is fine when the game is not on the line. He is good between the 40's but that is it.

He folds under pressure, he can't escape a defender in fact I heard the other teams were practicing making scary faces in the mirror so they could just scare him into a sack. I think they have a bet going.

Plain and simple, he is not a leader. He is a game manager and the broncos are not that team. Never have been until stupid Mcdushbag came here. I want the old Broncos back. You know the ones that were always in the game no matter how bad it got. The ones were people were afraid of coming to our house. Smash mouth football is what we need and Orton is not that.

Did you forget Brian Griese?

cutthemdown
07-28-2011, 02:17 PM
I don't doubt it. Orton will probably always look better in practice then Tebow. Its the toughness Tebow adds while game is being played Orton lacks. Also though this is why we have to hold firm on a high pick for Orton.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 02:18 PM
"in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90."

and for all the 3rd down crap he takes:

"Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on)."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

Um...I'd hate to be the one to break it to you, but most QB's have lower averages in the red zone.

The simple fact that Tebow was able to produce points in the red zone at all as an unpolished rookie playing in vanilla sets speaks more about him than does a slight dip in numbers.

SouthStndJunkie
07-28-2011, 02:18 PM
That's why we needed to trade Orton before camp.

Orton is a guy that will always look good in camp....no game pressure and it's nice and familiar for him.

Tebow is a gamer who will never look great in training camps and practices, but put him in the game and he produces.

The media is going to eat this **** up.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 02:20 PM
I don't get it! Football is a team sport which includes kicking game, defense, special teams and offensive line. How can a QB (sans John Elway) win a game on his own? Tebow is not the answer this year. Our season will be dismal with either QB. I think KO gives us the best chance of at least a .500 season.

The rest of the team needs work. I think it's a good move by the FO to "gear him up" to start. Tim is a long way off yet.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 02:21 PM
That's why we needed to trade Orton before camp.

Orton is a guy that will always look good in camp....no game pressure and it's nice and familiar for him.

Tebow is a gamer who will never look great in training camps and practices, but put him in the game and he produces.

The media is going to eat this **** up.

This is the first mistake of the FO.

The Broncos were better off cutting the guy than going to camp with him.

PRBronco
07-28-2011, 02:21 PM
"Denver is not going to vy for a playoff spot this year in my humble opinion. They played horrible defense, they can't run the ball - they'll improve on both fronts this year. John Fox needs to make a decision - he needs to ask himself, 'Are we better off with Tim Tebow in there at 6-10, or are we better off with Orton in there and going 8-8.'"

- Tom Waddle on NFLN

Bingo.

RaiderH8r
07-28-2011, 02:21 PM
That's why we needed to trade Orton before camp.

Orton is a guy that will always look good in camp....no game pressure and it's nice and familiar for him.

Tebow is a gamer who will never look great in training camps and practices, but put him in the game and he produces.

The media is going to eat this **** up.

If the media can give Orton a good Kolbing I'm all for it. Hell, Philly just got a starting CB and a second rounder for a guy who spent less time on the field than the grounds crew. Orton should be Kolbed so that we may benefit.

Quoydogs
07-28-2011, 02:23 PM
Did you forget Brian Griese?

I'm trying to.

SouthStndJunkie
07-28-2011, 02:24 PM
The other thing that sucks about Kyle Orton still being a Bronco is that he is taking away valuable 1st team reps that Tim Tebow needs....if they want to start Tim Tebow, he should be taking every rep possible with the 1st team in training camp.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Bingo.

Well if you ask that question, I think the clear answer is Tebow, even if Orton is a better QB (he is).
- Orton is not the answer, Tebow might be.
- Tebow has more upside.
- Tebow is more marketable for the FO.
- Tebow is younger.
- Starting him in this, a non-payoff year, will give him necessary experience for a run next year.
- 6-10 gives us a better draft pick than 8-8, a plus with the new rookie wage scale.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Watch Orton's redzone production against Indy last year. All you need to know.

1st redzone trip
he got us to first and goal at the one
Maroney got stuffed three times - not Orton's fault

2nd redzone trip
penalty on Royal on third down - not Orton's fault
field goal

3rd redzone trip got to the 16
field goal

4th trip

ended in an incompletion - I don't remember the play

Pony Boy
07-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Orton's not usually hung-over till Sunday

bendog
07-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Orton's like the chick your mom loves, but long term she'd wreck your life and you'd be paying support living in a efficiency apt, while Tebow's like the chick who has you still up and going at sunrise ..... wait, nevermind.

bronclvr
07-28-2011, 02:26 PM
I don't get it! Football is a team sport which includes kicking game, defense, special teams and offensive line. How can a QB (sans John Elway) win a game on his own? Tebow is not the answer this year. Our season will be dismal with either QB. I think KO gives us the best chance of at least a .500 season.

The rest of the team needs work. I think it's a good move by the FO to "gear him up" to start. Tim is a long way off yet.

I was just going to post something along these lines ^5-if Timmy isn't ready this Year, why not put Orton in? No, he isn't the sexy pick, and I know he will not have a Contract next Year, and that Tebow needs the reps, but do we want another mediocre Year when maybe (I did say maybe) we could possibly win our Division with Orton in there-we really don't know of Fox's plans on Offensive scheme (other than history)-

Maybe (again, I said maybe), Fox might have a plan utilizing Orton's ability to excel in the short game this Year. I would hate to see Tebow go down in flames because he is so raw-

TailgateNut
07-28-2011, 02:27 PM
The other thing that sucks about Kyle Orton still being a Bronco is that he is taking away valuable 1st team reps that Tim Tebow needs....if they want to start Tim Tebow, he should be taking every rep possible with the 1st team in training camp.


Didn't you get the memo from the likes of strafen and co that the broncos are just trying to jack up Ortons trade value. It has nothing to do with the chosen one being a dud.

jhns
07-28-2011, 02:27 PM
It's all about perception, dude. People perceive Tebow as an Elway type and automatically assume he was better then Orton. They don't look at the stats. As of right now, it sound like Orton is a better QB.

LOL

Wtf? It is very obvious that you are the one that hasn't checked the stats.

With Tebow starting, this teams average points scored was good for around 7th in the league. With Orton, we werr 20th...

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 02:27 PM
Miami Herald reporting that Orton to be the starter for the Broncos until August 4.

Lolad
07-28-2011, 02:27 PM
The other thing that sucks about Kyle Orton still being a Bronco is that he is taking away valuable 1st team reps that Tim Tebow needs....if they want to start Tim Tebow, he should be taking every rep possible with the 1st team in training camp.

this is EXACTLY why I can't understand why the FO is doing this.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 02:28 PM
With all the time and effort Tebow has put in since the Season was over you'd think he would be up there competing closer with Orton. If he's that far behind then maybe their better off starting Orton

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 02:28 PM
Didn't you get the memo from the likes of strafen and co that the broncos are just trying to jack up Ortons trade value. It has nothing to do with the chosen one being a dud.

Give it a rest. Your hate for Tebow is even more irrational than the undying love some people give him.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 02:28 PM
"Denver is not going to vy for a playoff spot this year in my humble opinion. They played horrible defense, they can't run the ball - they'll improve on both fronts this year. John Fox needs to make a decision - he needs to ask himself, 'Are we better off with Tim Tebow in there at 6-10, or are we better off with Orton in there and going 8-8.'"

- Tom Waddle on NFLN

An 8-8 team, however unlikely, CAN make the playoffs. A 6-10 team can't.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 02:29 PM
I don't get it! Football is a team sport which includes kicking game, defense, special teams and offensive line. How can a QB (sans John Elway) win a game on his own? Tebow is not the answer this year. Our season will be dismal with either QB. I think KO gives us the best chance of at least a .500 season.

The rest of the team needs work. I think it's a good move by the FO to "gear him up" to start. Tim is a long way off yet.

Everything in this post is correct, except Tebow is a better long-term option.

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 02:29 PM
I don't even like Teboz and the offense seemed to be better with him.

Doesn't really say much though.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 02:29 PM
With Tebow starting, this teams average points scored was good for around 7th in the league. With Orton, we werr 20th...

Call me when the sample size is a little closer.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 02:30 PM
With all the time and effort Tebow has put in since the Season was over you'd think he would be up there competing closer with Orton. If he's that far behind then maybe their better off starting Orton

Its one thing to be working hard on your own game it's an entirely different thing working with 20 guys running around the field with you (hard to replicate that in a lockout). Of course Orton is more comfortable in practice right now.

Black96WS6
07-28-2011, 02:30 PM
I want the old Broncos back. You know the ones that were always in the game no matter how bad it got. The ones were people were afraid of coming to our house. Smash mouth football is what we need and Orton is not that.

If that's what you want why go with Fox and not Marty Schottenheimer?

And he hates the Raiders with a passion and also destroys them whenever he plays them :strong:.

TailgateNut
07-28-2011, 02:32 PM
Give it a rest. Your hate for Tebow is even more irrational than the undying love I show him.


fixed it for you.

....and FYI I'm from the "show me state" and Teebow hasn't shown me squat!

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 02:32 PM
1st redzone trip
he got us to first and goal at the one
Maroney got stuffed three times - not Orton's fault

2nd redzone trip
penalty on Royal on third down - not Orton's fault
field goal

3rd redzone trip got to the 16
field goal

4th trip

ended in an incompletion - I don't remember the play

Orton was obviously just a bystander.

It would be different if Orton's career wasn't marked by the same repeated terrible red zone results.

Orton is a game manager.

A game manager who cannot put the ball over the goal line under pressure.

The Broncos do not need one of those.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 02:33 PM
Its one thing to be working hard on your own game it's an entirely different thing working with 20 guys running around the field with you (hard to replicate that in a lockout). Of course Orton is more comfortable in practice right now.

Wasn't he working out with most of the offense?

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 02:34 PM
fixed it for you.

....and FYI I'm from the "show me state" and Teebow hasn't shown me squat!

I've been as realistic about Tebow as anybody so you can keep your "fix". He's not much more than a rookie. What the **** do you want him to show in that time span? You just hate him and always have. You're as one sided as epic.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 02:35 PM
An 8-8 team, however unlikely, CAN make the playoffs. A 6-10 team can't.

The Broncos were 4-12 last season.

Let me repeat: four-and-twelve. 4 wins out of 16 games = "4-12"

Good for the second-worst record in the NFL.

I see no indications that porcelain Kyle and the no-D Broncos have an 8-8 season in front of them.

OABB
07-28-2011, 02:35 PM
fixed it for you.

....and FYI I'm from the "show me state" and Teebow hasn't shown me squat!

which is why you get teased. If Tebow didn't show you squat as a rookie last year than you deserve much more ridicule. If you had said he is overrated by some, i'd give you that. but if he didn't show you squat than you are clearly biased or stupid. which is it?

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Wasn't he working out with most of the offense?

No. A few receivers. We haven't had any full scale team practices with lots of plays being run.

Rabb
07-28-2011, 02:38 PM
It's sad to me that as a fanbase, we are reduced to rooting for the other side to fail so we can get all uppity about it...even though it's all on the same team that is presumably our favorite.

I just don't get it.

HILife
07-28-2011, 02:38 PM
"I've said this before, when you play this position, there's always something going on," Orton said. "I'm here. My mindset is I'm going to be here. I've let the team know I want to be here. I plan on playing my best ball."

So glad we have Orton instead of Cutler.

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 02:41 PM
It's sad to me that as a fanbase, we are reduced to rooting for the other side to fail so we can get all uppity about it...even though it's all on the same team that is presumably our favorite.

I just don't get it.

http://img0.yardbarker.com/media/1/8/18fda9dc22d60635dd3591b3a6cd3280ba6261eb/medium/josh.jpg?stamp=1311711193

TailgateNut
07-28-2011, 02:41 PM
which is why you get teased. If Tebow didn't show you squat as a rookie last year than you deserve much more ridicule. If you had said he is overrated by some, i'd give you that. but if he didn't show you squat than you are clearly biased or stupid. which is it?


Let me re-phrase; He didn't show me enough to warrant the starting position, nor warrant me kissing his ass, which seems to be the tendency on this board.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2011, 02:42 PM
So glad we have Orton instead of Cutler.

Orton says stuff like that all the time and then he gets out on the field and plays like a limp, deflated balloon when it matters the most.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 02:42 PM
Orton was obviously just a bystander.

It would be different if Orton's career wasn't marked by the same repeated terrible red zone results.

Orton is a game manager.

A game manager who cannot put the ball over the goal line under pressure.

The Broncos do not need one of those.

So how do these failures fall on Orton? Last year Orton was 3-3 in 4th down conversions of 8-10 yards. He doesn't run the ball and he doesn't play on defense.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 02:43 PM
It's sad to me that as a fanbase, we are reduced to rooting for the other side to fail so we can get all uppity about it...even though it's all on the same team that is presumably our favorite.

I just don't get it.

Rep!

jhns
07-28-2011, 02:43 PM
Call me when the sample size is a little closer.

Good excuse. How about this. The Tebow led Broncos averaged 25 points per game. They didn't score below 23 points. The orton led Broncos only had one three game stretch that could match that total. That is around the 49 point KC game, and does include a game of only 14 points. In that 49 point game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter had a 75 yard fble return for a TD.

The sample size argument is a joke. Orton has never done as well as Tebow did.

Steve Prefontaine
07-28-2011, 02:44 PM
1st redzone trip
he got us to first and goal at the one
Maroney got stuffed three times - not Orton's fault

2nd redzone trip
penalty on Royal on third down - not Orton's fault
field goal

3rd redzone trip got to the 16
field goal

4th trip

ended in an incompletion - I don't remember the play
And now reality...

1st trip: Maroney stuffed on 1st and 2nd down. Orton incomplete pass on 3rd down. Maroney stuff on 4th down. No points. Maroney is a b****.

2nd trip: 1st down 9 yard completion. 2nd down incomplete. 3rd down incomplete. The penalty on Royal was declined and irrelevant. Field Goal.

3rd trip: 1st and 2nd down incomplete. 3rd down was a 1 yard completion. Field Goal.

4th trip: 1st down run. 2nd down incomplete. 3rd down 4 yard completion. 4th down incomplete.

That's effective QB play? 3 for 8 for 14 yards and 0 TD in the red zone.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 02:44 PM
The Broncos were 4-12 last season.

Let me repeat: four-and-twelve. 4 wins out of 16 games = "4-12"

Good for the second-worst record in the NFL.

I see no indications that porcelain Kyle and the no-D Broncos have an 8-8 season in front of them.

Tell Tom Waddle from nflnetwork. It was his prediction, not mine.

TailgateNut
07-28-2011, 02:45 PM
So how do these failures fall on Orton? Last year Orton was 3-3 in 4th down conversions of 8-10 yards. He doesn't run the ball and he doesn't play on defense.


They shouldn't, but most of the tebownites can't see **** because tebows pubic hair is poking them in the eyes.

Flex Gunmetal
07-28-2011, 02:46 PM
The guys on the FAN (who are at dove valley) were bashing klis and/or whoever writes his headlines. They said there was virtually no passing today and only someone throwing sht against the wall could come to any conclusion about the qb battle.

Disregard.

jhns
07-28-2011, 02:46 PM
So glad we have Orton instead of Cutler.

Yeah, Elway isn't.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 02:47 PM
Good excuse. How about this. The Tebow led Broncos averaged 25 points per game. They didn't score below 23 points. The orton led Broncos only had one three game stretch that could match that total. That is around the 49 point KC game, and does include a game of only 14 points. In that 49 point game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter had a 75 yard fble return for a TD.

Tell me about Tebow when he wasn't facing the #32 ranked pass defense.

Stagger Lee
07-28-2011, 02:47 PM
The guys on the FAN (who are at dove valley) were bashing klis and/or whoever writes his headlines. They said there was virtually no passing today and only someone throwing sht against the wall could come to any conclusion about the qb battle.

Disregard.

Klis is a tool.

RaiderH8r
07-28-2011, 02:47 PM
They shouldn't, but most of the tebownites can't see **** because tebows pubic hair is poking them in the eyes.

So you're pretty much going all in on the Tebow sucks position then. Okey dokey.

Lolad
07-28-2011, 02:48 PM
The guys on the FAN (who are at dove valley) were bashing klis and/or whoever writes his headlines. They said there was virtually no passing today and only someone throwing sht against the wall could come to any conclusion about the qb battle.

Disregard.

can we move this post to the OP please. Calm down and relax!

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 02:48 PM
That's effective QB play? 3 for 8 for 14 yards and 0 TD in the red zone.

Context please. Dropped passes, no WRs open, bad passes, deflections, wrong routes run by the receiver?

jhns
07-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Good excuse. How about this. The Tebow led Broncos averaged 25 points per game. They didn't score below 23 points. The orton led Broncos only had one three game stretch that could match that total. That is around the 49 point KC game, and does include a game of only 14 points. In that 49 point game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter had a 75 yard fble return for a TD.

The sample size argument is a joke. Orton has never done as well as Tebow did.

I forgot one other thing that makes the sample size argument a joke. They played two common opponents. The Tebow led Broncos did far better against both.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Good excuse. How about this. The Tebow led Broncos averaged 25 points per game. They didn't score below 23 points. The orton led Broncos only had one three game stretch that could match that total. That is around the 49 point KC game, and does include a game of only 14 points. In that 49 point game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter had a 75 yard fble return for a TD.

The sample size argument is a joke. Orton has never done as well as Tebow did.

This is your opinion Jhz, not fact!

Steve Prefontaine
07-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Context please. Dropped passes, no WRs open, bad passes, deflections, wrong routes run by the receiver?

You started the discussion by throwing out some stats, so I thought that was your baseline.

Be my guest to break down the tape.

jhns
07-28-2011, 02:52 PM
Tell me about Tebow when he wasn't facing the #32 ranked pass defense.

LOL

Two of the three defenses were two of the best in the league. Wtf?

crawdad
07-28-2011, 02:56 PM
Yep, last game of the season, Tebow was a whopping 16-36 with two TD and 2 Int.

jhns
07-28-2011, 02:58 PM
This is your opinion Jhz, not fact!

The stats say you are a dumbass.

jhns
07-28-2011, 03:03 PM
Yep, last game of the season, Tebow was a whopping 16-36 with two TD and 2 Int.

Wrong. He had 300 yards, 3 TDs, and 2 ints.

You want to know what Orton did against that same team last season? 200 yards, 1 TD, and 1 int.

Great argument...

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 03:03 PM
I forgot one other thing that makes the sample size argument a joke. They played two common opponents. The Tebow led Broncos did far better against both.

That 97 yd kickoff return for the Broncos against SD was clearly all Tebow.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:04 PM
Your reputation precedes you, assclown!

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Yep, last game of the season, Tebow was a whopping 16-36 with two TD and 2 Int.

And we had a chance to win. Jesus, get passed the stats. Did you watch the game? Apparently not.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:06 PM
Wrong. He had 300 yards and 3 TDs.

You want to know what Orton did against that same team last season? 200 yards, 1 TD, and 1 int.

Great argument...

In game 17 last year against SD, Tebow was 16-36 with 2 TD and 2 int.

CEH
07-28-2011, 03:07 PM
LOL

Wtf? It is very obvious that you are the one that hasn't checked the stats.

With Tebow starting, this teams average points scored was good for around 7th in the league. With Orton, we werr 20th...

Tim said Orton is free to keep his 5 TDs in the 1st 13 games as well

TonyR
07-28-2011, 03:07 PM
Here's PFT's take.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/28/kyle-orton-outplays-tim-tebow-at-broncos-practice/

SouthStndJunkie
07-28-2011, 03:07 PM
With all the time and effort Tebow has put in since the Season was over you'd think he would be up there competing closer with Orton. If he's that far behind then maybe their better off starting Orton

Let's not all freak out, it's been one day of practice.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:07 PM
And we had a chance to win. Jesus, get passed the stats. Did you watch the game? Apparently not.

Hop in there anytime! The point is Orton gives us a better chance right now! My opinion but backed by good stats. Read the thread. The game is not completely on Orton!

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 03:08 PM
In game 17 last year against SD, Tebow was 16-36 with 2 TD and 2 int*

*As a rookie, against the number 1 defense, with a team in shambles, and an interim head coach.

Lolad
07-28-2011, 03:09 PM
In game 17 last year against SD, Tebow was 16-36 with 2 TD and 2 int.

Who cares about STATS! If we would go off of STATS Kyle Orton is a top 10 QB in this league his TD/INT ratio is good. His win/loss record is decent. But if you look at the intangibles like making a 1st down happen when a play is broken, he couldn't chuck a rock in the water standing in front of an ocean.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-28-2011, 03:11 PM
That's the funniest thing I've read all day....

Welcome to the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, Donks!

Steve Prefontaine
07-28-2011, 03:15 PM
Who cares about STATS! If we would go off of STATS Kyle Orton is a top 10 QB in this league his TD/INT ratio is good. His win/loss record is decent. But if you look at the intangibles like making a 1st down happen when a play is broken, he couldn't chuck a rock in the water standing in front of an ocean.
Remember when Orton was a "winner" because of his record. I don't hear that much anymore.

jhns
07-28-2011, 03:16 PM
In game 17 last year against SD, Tebow was 16-36 with 2 TD and 2 int.

Again, you are an idiot. He had 3 TDs. Orton played that same team and had far worse stats. How is that an argument that favors Orton?

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:17 PM
Who cares about STATS! If we would go off of STATS Kyle Orton is a top 10 QB in this league his TD/INT ratio is good. His win/loss record is decent. But if you look at the intangibles like making a 1st down happen when a play is broken, he couldn't chuck a rock in the water standing in front of an ocean.

Another one steps in to talk about something he hasn't read!

Tim Tebow was 1-2 last years as a starter.

I'll paste my post from early on so you can read it!

I don't get it! Football is a team sport which includes kicking game, defense, special teams and offensive line. How can a QB (sans John Elway) win a game on his own? Tebow is not the answer this year. Our season will be dismal with either QB. I think KO gives us the best chance of at least a .500 season.

The rest of the team needs work. I think it's a good move by the FO to "gear him up" to start. Tim is a long way off yet

bendog
07-28-2011, 03:17 PM
Remember when Orton was a "winner" because of his record. I don't hear that much anymore.

He's gone from being ProBowl to last week's chipped beef. lol

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 03:19 PM
How did Orton fare with the interim head coach / imploding team against Arizona's 29th ranked defense?

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Again, you are an idiot. He had 3 TDs. Orton played that same team and had far worse stats. How is that an argument that favors Orton?

You're an idiot. Tebow had 5 TD's in 4 games and never had 3 TD's in any game. Put your money where your mouth is, assclown!

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Hop in there anytime! The point is Orton gives us a better chance right now! My opinion but backed by good stats. Read the thread. The game is not completely on Orton!

Good stats like 3-10? Yeah, Orton gave us a great chance to win. I don't know how anyone who is a fan of this club didn't feel a level of unprecedented excitement during the last 3 games that hasn't been felt in Orton's entire time here.

Tebow showed me he deserves a chance to show what he can do as a first round draft pick. Are just supposed to compeletly piss that pick away?

We will never go anywhere with Orton, except maybe a first round playoff exit if everything falls into place perfectly.

Gort
07-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Yea Orton's great in practice , it's when there is actual tacklers around him is when he seems to have issues.

to be fair, Orton has mastered the "stop, drop, and roll" technique for avoiding would-be sackers. so he's got that going for him.

NUB
07-28-2011, 03:20 PM
The guys on the FAN (who are at dove valley) were bashing klis and/or whoever writes his headlines. They said there was virtually no passing today and only someone throwing sht against the wall could come to any conclusion about the qb battle.

Disregard.

Denver has to have the worst sports writers in the country.

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 03:21 PM
You're an idiot. Tebow had 5 TD's in 4 games and never had 3 TD's in any game. Put your money where your mouth is, assclown!

Wow. Are you kidding or serious?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos

oubronco
07-28-2011, 03:23 PM
Remember when Orton was a "winner" because of his record. I don't hear that much anymore.

32-29 will do that to you

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:24 PM
I guess we don't count rushing TDs? And Crawdad considers himself the master of stats evaluation.

jhns
07-28-2011, 03:24 PM
You're an idiot. Tebow had 5 TD's in 4 games and never had 3 TD's in any game. Put your money where your mouth is, assclown!

Okay, I bet you $5,000 that Tebow had three TDs in week 17.

Do you always just throw **** against the wall and hope it sticks? Again, youare an idiot. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't chime in. Now go check NFL.com and see what a dumbass you are being. While you are there, look what Orton did against the same team. Try explaining how that argument favors Orton...

Steve Prefontaine
07-28-2011, 03:25 PM
Wow. Are you kidding or serious?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010213/2010/REG17/chargers@broncos

LOL

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:26 PM
We are talking about passer ratings!

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 03:27 PM
19 / 41 166 yds 0 TD 3 Int

Kyle Orton's incredible stats against the 29th ranked Cardinals defense.

Edit: 0 rushing TD's, but they wouldn't count anyway according to some.

Steve Prefontaine
07-28-2011, 03:27 PM
The guys on the FAN (who are at dove valley) were bashing klis and/or whoever writes his headlines. They said there was virtually no passing today and only someone throwing sht against the wall could come to any conclusion about the qb battle.

Disregard.

Don't let the Dophins read this.

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:28 PM
We are talking about passer ratings!

WTF cares about passer ratings? Not me.

Jay3
07-28-2011, 03:28 PM
Orton's strengths as a quarterback:

1. He has a nice, decisive way of throwing the ball. It looks really snappy and spins out well.
2. He pulls the trigger decisively, in rhythm. Great release.
3. He sees things well when the play goes as it's supposed to go -- good vision to read the coverage and throw to the right guy, on time.

Orton's weaknesses as a quarterback:

1. Does not do well under a rush pressure.
2. Does not throw as well when he has to reset his feet.
3. Does not do well after there has been something bad, like a sack or an interception.
4. Does not hold up well for a whole game or season -- I think his body or overall strength are not high enough to take a whole game pounding and still play well in the third hour. Ditto for the latter part of the season.


When you add it all up, he's the perfect practice player -- everything he does the best, is what you are looking at in 7 on 7 and in practice generally.

That's not to knock the importance of his strengths. Strengths are strengths. But it invariably makes him seem better than he really is for crunch time. He's got a little bit of a "fool's gold" quality about him.

broncocalijohn
07-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Watching NFL network right now... Michelle Beisner just interviewed Orton:

"I'm here to compete for the starting job, and I like my chances if they let me" - Kyle Orton

I like the attitude. Broncos would need to see something exceptional to know that there is something different about Orton that would put him over Tebow. Orton wont get faster and we know Tebow is a beast. I want Orton to shine so he looks great for trade bait or he tries to get the starting job and stays here.
All I know is MacGruder does not approve of this thread.

broncocalijohn
07-28-2011, 03:29 PM
WTF cares about passer ratings? Not me.

we sure didnt when Elway was QB under Reeves. Sure we wanted more but we were happy we had a winner for a QB.

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 03:31 PM
We are talking about passer ratings!

Oh we are?

That's odd. Passer ratings haven't been mentioned since page 1.

And not at all by you.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 03:31 PM
Orton's strengths as a quarterback:

1. He has a nice, decisive way of throwing the ball. It looks really snappy and spins out well.
2. He pulls the trigger decisively, in rhythm. Great release.
3. He sees things well when the play goes as it's supposed to go -- good vision to read the coverage and throw to the right guy, on time.

Orton's weaknesses as a quarterback:

1. Does not do well under a rush pressure.
2. Does not throw as well when he has to reset his feet.
3. Does not do well after there has been something bad, like a sack or an interception.
4. Does not hold up well for a whole game or season -- I think his body or overall strength are not high enough to take a whole game pounding and still play well in the third hour. Ditto for the latter part of the season.


When you add it all up, he's the perfect practice player -- everything he does the best, is what you are looking at in 7 on 7 and in practice generally.

That's not to knock the importance of his strengths. Strengths are strengths. But it invariably makes him seem better than he really is for crunch time. He's got a little bit of a "fool's gold" quality about him.

You could describe a Juggs machine in the exact same manner.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Okay, I am rebutting your statement that Orton did worse than Tebow. Passer rating dictates QB worth, correct! And once again all of you are ignoring the fact that Orton and Tebow for that matter, played behind a terrible offensive line. Orton had a 76.3 passer rating against SD defense and Tebow had like a 58. Come on, get Tebow's cock out of your mouth!

LetsGoBroncos
07-28-2011, 03:32 PM
That's the funniest thing I've read all day....

Welcome to the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, Donks!

You guys haven't won a playoff game in almost 20 years!!

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:33 PM
we sure didnt when Elway was QB under Reeves. Sure we wanted more but we were happy we had a winner for a QB.

Yeah, god forbid someone goes back and evaluates Elway on his sometimes ****ty passer stats. It's what happens when the **** hits the fan that counts. And I saw way MORE than enough from Tebow to give me a lot of hope for the future.

Let's not mention the scrambles on 3rd and 10 that Tebow has and can make that keep drives alive.

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 03:33 PM
Okay, I am rebutting your statement that Orton did worse than Tebow. Passer rating dictates QB worth, correct! And once again all of you are ignoring the fact that Orton and Tebow for that matter, played behind a terrible offensive line. Orton had a 76.3 passer rating against SD defense and Tebow had like a 58. Come on, get Tebow's cock out of your mouth!

Hilarious!

So this guy is a lock for the HoF, eh?

http://www.nfl.com/player/tonyromo/2505354/profile

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:34 PM
Okay, I am rebutting your statement that Orton did worse than Tebow. Passer rating dictates QB worth, correct! And once again all of you are ignoring the fact that Orton and Tebow for that matter, played behind a terrible offensive line. Orton had a 76.3 passer rating against SD defense and Tebow had like a 58. Come on, get Tebow's cock out of your mouth!

Only if you get Orton's out of your A$$.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 03:34 PM
Orton's strengths as a quarterback:

1. He has a nice, decisive way of throwing the ball. It looks really snappy and spins out well.
2. He pulls the trigger decisively, in rhythm. Great release.
3. He sees things well when the play goes as it's supposed to go -- good vision to read the coverage and throw to the right guy, on time.

Orton's weaknesses as a quarterback:

1. Does not do well under a rush pressure.
2. Does not throw as well when he has to reset his feet.
3. Does not do well after there has been something bad, like a sack or an interception.
4. Does not hold up well for a whole game or season -- I think his body or overall strength are not high enough to take a whole game pounding and still play well in the third hour. Ditto for the latter part of the season.


When you add it all up, he's the perfect practice player -- everything he does the best, is what you are looking at in 7 on 7 and in practice generally.

That's not to knock the importance of his strengths. Strengths are strengths. But it invariably makes him seem better than he really is for crunch time. He's got a little bit of a "fool's gold" quality about him.

Well be fair and do one on Tebow

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 03:35 PM
This is just a MacGruder-esque gang beat-down lol

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:35 PM
Hey, don't get me wrong! I like the kid but I don't think we throw away all the experience he can get for one more year under Orton. After all we do have a new coach! If any of you think we are playoff bound this year (Orton or Tebow) you're nuts!

jhns
07-28-2011, 03:35 PM
We are talking about passer ratings!

You haven't shown a single passer rating. What kind of retarded argument is that anyways? "I know he scored but we can't count that because...?"

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 03:38 PM
Hey, don't get me wrong! I like the kid but I don't think we throw away all the experience he can get for one more year under Orton. After all we do have a new coach! If any of you think we are playoff bound this year (Orton or Tebow) you're nuts!

Wtf are you even TRYING to say...?

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:40 PM
And what have you shown besides your ass on a constant basis?

jhns
07-28-2011, 03:40 PM
Okay, I am rebutting your statement that Orton did worse than Tebow. Passer rating dictates QB worth, correct! And once again all of you are ignoring the fact that Orton and Tebow for that matter, played behind a terrible offensive line. Orton had a 76.3 passer rating against SD defense and Tebow had like a 58. Come on, get Tebow's cock out of your mouth!

Wtf? I think you need to work on graduating the third grade before trying to argue with the big boys. This is getting so dumb that I'm not even sure how to respond anymore.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 03:40 PM
Wtf are you even TRYING to say...?

Word salad.

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:40 PM
Wtf are you even TRYING to say...?

Yeah, I am now officially confused.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:41 PM
Wtf are you even TRYING to say...?

It is a re-building year, open your eyes!

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 03:41 PM
Hey, don't get me wrong! I like the kid but I don't think we throw away all the experience he can get for one more year under Orton. After all we do have a new coach! If any of you think we are playoff bound this year (Orton or Tebow) you're nuts!

It's highly likely we will not be in the playoffs. We would all rather enjoy watching Tebow and hoping for the best as opposed to watching Orton be his solid but boring self. It's time to roll with Tebow and see what we have.

MplsBronco
07-28-2011, 03:42 PM
Crawdad, if we are going nowhere WITH Orton, then why play him? Why not then unleash Tebow and see what we have.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:44 PM
Apparently none of you are old enough to have suffered through the lean years when Elway couldn't do sh*t with the crap teams we had. Just saying Tebow needs more tutoring. I know it is hard for you to understand!

Flex Gunmetal
07-28-2011, 03:44 PM
To be fair crawdad is almost 90 years old.

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:47 PM
I am still stuck on the idea that "it is a team effort dudes"! I don't see alot of improvement when Tebow came in last year. Yeah we had alot of hope but Tim still has alot to learn and I believe he can learn from KO. It's my opinion, I don't care if you don't like it!

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:48 PM
To be fair crawdad is almost 90 years old.

So! What's your point!

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 03:50 PM
I am still stuck on the idea that "it is a team effort dudes"! I don't see alot of improvement when Tebow came in last year. Yeah we had alot of hope but Tim still has alot to learn and I believe he can learn from KO. It's my opinion, I don't care if you don't like it!

We scored 5 more points per game. That not big enough for you?

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 03:50 PM
I am still stuck on the idea that "it is a team effort dudes"! I don't see alot of improvement when Tebow came in last year. Yeah we had alot of hope but Tim still has alot to learn and I believe he can learn from KO. It's my opinion, I don't care if you don't like it!

Holy balls.

Did you watch the Cardinals game? Did you happen to notice the completely hapless and hopeless effort the entire team put forth? And no improvement of the team effort once Tebow took over?

TheReverend
07-28-2011, 03:51 PM
So! What's your point!

...............Are YOU MacGruder?

Pick Six
07-28-2011, 03:51 PM
Orton's strengths as a quarterback:

1. He has a nice, decisive way of throwing the ball. It looks really snappy and spins out well.
2. He pulls the trigger decisively, in rhythm. Great release.
3. He sees things well when the play goes as it's supposed to go -- good vision to read the coverage and throw to the right guy, on time.

Orton's weaknesses as a quarterback:

1. Does not do well under a rush pressure.
2. Does not throw as well when he has to reset his feet.
3. Does not do well after there has been something bad, like a sack or an interception.
4. Does not hold up well for a whole game or season -- I think his body or overall strength are not high enough to take a whole game pounding and still play well in the third hour. Ditto for the latter part of the season.




Peyton Manning wouldn't do well, with the offensive line we had...

Lolad
07-28-2011, 03:52 PM
Apparently none of you are old enough to have suffered through the lean years when Elway couldn't do sh*t with the crap teams we had. Just saying Tebow needs more tutoring. I know it is hard for you to understand!

in an interview Tebow said he can have all the mental reps he wants but it does NOT help once the game is live. I think this preseason he need should be playing all 3 quarter reps. Put Quinn in the 4th

oubronco
07-28-2011, 03:52 PM
Peyton Manning wouldn't do well, with the offensive line we had...

Don't leave out the not so special teams and efense

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 03:52 PM
Holy balls.

Did you watch the Cardinals game? Did you happen to notice the completely hapless and hopeless effort the entire team put forth? And no improvement of the team effort once Tebow took over?

It's pretty mind boggling isn't it? And here I was thinking it was so obvious a blind man would've seen it...

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Apparently none of you are old enough to have suffered through the lean years when Elway couldn't do sh*t with the crap teams we had. Just saying Tebow needs more tutoring. I know it is hard for you to understand!

But with Elway there was always hope. That's what makes the down times bearable. There is none with Orton behind center.

jhns
07-28-2011, 03:54 PM
I am still stuck on the idea that "it is a team effort dudes"! I don't see alot of improvement when Tebow came in last year. Yeah we had alot of hope but Tim still has alot to learn and I believe he can learn from KO. It's my opinion, I don't care if you don't like it!

It is fine that you have that opinion. What makes you a joke is arguing with "facts" when you clearly haven't put in the work to learn what you are talking about. Then in multiple attempts to spin that stupid ****, you end up saying dumber ****. If you just said this to start with, none of this argument would have happened.

broncocalijohn
07-28-2011, 03:54 PM
Wtf? I think you need to work on graduating the third grade before trying to argue with the big boys. This is getting so dumb that I'm not even sure how to respond anymore.

You might not agree with him but I think your comment towards Mike is pretty lame. This (his) is far from MacGruder type responses. Grow up and if you think he is wrong, which I think going by passing rating is not the end all, then nail him on it. Crawdad IMO, is wrong on it, but I will respect his wrong opinion.

BTW Mike, those Elway lean years? How many were there because I remember mostly our mediocricy in the early to mid 90s. When Phillips took over, your passing rating went way up for Elway yet we couldnt win many games. There are some players were P.R. is overhype.

Archer81
07-28-2011, 03:57 PM
First practice session of the first day of camp with no OTA's nor working with coaches for the last 5 months. Orton is gone one way or another.


:Broncos:

crawdad
07-28-2011, 03:58 PM
I don't get it! Football is a team sport which includes kicking game, defense, special teams and offensive line. How can a QB (sans John Elway) win a game on his own? Tebow is not the answer this year. Our season will be dismal with either QB. I think KO gives us the best chance of at least a .500 season.

The rest of the team needs work. I think it's a good move by the FO to "gear him up" to start. Tim is a long way off yet.

This post was on page 2, Jhz! Keep up will ya?

jhns
07-28-2011, 03:58 PM
You might not agree with him but I think your comment towards Mike is pretty lame. This (his) is far from MacGruder type responses. Grow up and if you think he is wrong, which I think going by passing rating is not the end all, then nail him on it.

Sorry, he doesn't deserve anything other than a MacGruder type response. First, he was **** talking me long before I started doing it back. Second, he insults everyones intelligence by not even trying to figure out what he is talking about as people like me have actually put in the work.

If you don't want to be ridiculed on the mane, don't paint a giant target on your back.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 04:04 PM
Quinn also had the first day's best line. Asked if there was any tension between Orton and Tebow, Quinn said: "Look, if you're going to ask questions about football, ask questions about football. I'm not here to talk about anyone's relationship status. Save that for Twitter or Facebook or some message board."

Poor old Brady is probably pissed is name isn't in the fold.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 04:05 PM
John Madden once said John Elway was the closest thing he's seen to a one-man team.

Rigs11
07-28-2011, 04:05 PM
if you guys don't support the great tebow you are not broncos fans and you are hoping that he fails miserably!:clown:

Bob's your Information Minister
07-28-2011, 04:05 PM
Orton's going to get soooooo ****ing drunk

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-28-2011, 04:06 PM
Quinn also had the first day's best line. Asked if there was any tension between Orton and Tebow, Quinn said: "Look, if you're going to ask questions about football, ask questions about football. I'm not here to talk about anyone's relationship status. Save that for Twitter or Facebook or some message board."

Read more: Broncos' Orton shows he's way ahead of Tim Tebow in QB duel - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18568906?utm_medium=facebook#ixzz1TRLneKbR
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but...

Right the **** on, Brady.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-28-2011, 04:08 PM
You guys haven't won a playoff game in almost 20 years!!

The Broncos only have 15 years to go to equal that embarrassment!

oubronco
07-28-2011, 04:09 PM
if you guys don't support the great tebow you are not broncos fans and you are hoping that he fails miserably!:clown:

Same could be said about Orton seeing he's still on the team

Garcia Bronco
07-28-2011, 04:15 PM
Sorry if it's a repost.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18568906

Is this fluff for trade stock, or is it for real? It's only the first day of practice.

I would expect this to be the case as Orton has a **** ton more experience. The only this is bad at this stage is if Tim IS outperforming Orton.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 04:24 PM
Same could be said about Orton seeing he's still on the team

No it couldn't. He gave up last year, moping off the field, head hung low, after 3 and out after 3 and out. We all saw it. As far as I'm concerned, he stopped being a Bronco at that point. For me it isn't about his quality of play or lack thereof, it's about his complete lack of heart and competitive fire. He's just a parasite as far as I'm concerned at this point.

That's why I actually start getting angry when I think of him starting again this year. All I can see is red at the very notion.

Ironlung
07-28-2011, 04:30 PM
The Broncos only have 15 years to go to equal that embarrassment!

Atleast you admit your team is an embarrassment

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-28-2011, 04:31 PM
No it couldn't. He gave up last year, moping off the field, head hung low, after 3 and out after 3 and out. We all saw it. As far as I'm concerned, he stopped being a Bronco at that point. For me it isn't about his quality of play or lack thereof, it's about his complete lack of heart and competitive fire. He's just a parasite as far as I'm concerned at this point.

That's why I actually start getting angry when I think of him starting again this year. All I can see is red at the very notion.

Yeah, let's start the guy that can't beat out Orton... OR Quinn.

Championship.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 04:36 PM
Yeah, let's start the guy that can't beat out Orton... OR Quinn.

Championship.

In three games of fiery, never say die football, Tebow beat out Orton and then some. At least as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a **** who throws better in meaningless practices with no pressure, no contact, and no scrambling. Tebow >>>>>>>> Orton.

ant1999e
07-28-2011, 04:39 PM
Yeah, let's start the guy that can't beat out Orton... OR Quinn.

Championship.

Get over it, you're gonna have to change your name.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 04:39 PM
No it couldn't. He gave up last year, moping off the field, head hung low, after 3 and out after 3 and out. We all saw it. As far as I'm concerned, he stopped being a Bronco at that point. For me it isn't about his quality of play or lack thereof, it's about his complete lack of heart and competitive fire. He's just a parasite as far as I'm concerned at this point.

That's why I actually start getting angry when I think of him starting again this year. All I can see is red at the very notion.

So if Orton wins the starting job you aren't going to support the team

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-28-2011, 04:39 PM
In three games of fiery, never say die football, Tebow beat out Orton and then some. At least as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a **** who throws better in meaningless practices with no pressure, no contact, and no scrambling. Tebow >>>>>>>> Orton.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world relies on practice to see what players do and don't have in the tank, what they bring to the table, etc.

"Well, Bob really sucked in that run through with the presentation. Let's have him present to the shareholders though... he will definitely perform when the spotlight is on him! Durrrrrp!"

Thank god you don't run any business I've ever been associated with.

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 04:41 PM
We've already had almost two seasons to see what Orton can and can not do.

Do we need to suffer anymore?

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 04:42 PM
This is just a MacGruder-esque gang beat-down lol

Ironic considering you are all using arguments I made first... long before you halfwits even knew who Tebow was.. LOL Like when guys were saying the Broncos would be better last season because Orton looked so good in practice.

So in the end to win an argument as a group you STILL need my arguments to do it. LOL

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 04:43 PM
If Orton starts it will probably be the most depressing year in Broncos football history. Even if we win a few more games it will be a season with no hope or interest.

TDmvp
07-28-2011, 04:43 PM
We've already had almost two seasons to see what Orton can and can not do.

Do we need to suffer anymore?


Pls no...
http://liz-green.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/FreedomBraveheart.jpg

oubronco
07-28-2011, 04:44 PM
If Orton starts it will probably be the most depressing year in Broncos football history. Even if we win a few more games it will be a season with no hope or interest.

If they don't field a competent defense it won't matter who starts at QB

Gutless Drunk
07-28-2011, 04:44 PM
28926

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 04:45 PM
If they don't field a competent defense it won't matter who starts at QB

We can at least enjoy watching Tebow regardless of how bad the defense is. Anybody honestly jazzed up about watching Orton?

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 04:45 PM
When anti-Teboz people (like me) are calling for Teboz, Orton's gotta go.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-28-2011, 04:46 PM
The Broncos only have 15 years to go to equal that embarrassment!

Not when the two prior years they won the Super Bowl, something your team hasn't done in 2 generations.

For as hard as you try, you really aren't that good at this stuff.

CEH
07-28-2011, 04:47 PM
If they don't field a competent defense it won't matter who starts at QB

Fox, Doom and Miller 3 quality pieces not here last year. It's a start

BTW, what is the definition of "gamer". Really good at practice or just finds a way when the play goes off schedule?

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 04:48 PM
I hate to break it to you guys but there are probably about 20,000 college QBs that would LOOK better than Tebow in training camp practices... Orton and Quinn are not special in this regard. The same was really true of Cam Newton too... he has been regarded as a better prospect than Tebow for the same reason.

It's because QB prospects today are MOLDED to look like this even at the expense of their play on the field. In the end looking polished in practice really has nothing to do with success in games. Which is why Tebow outperformed Sam Bradford in his first 3 games. And why real NFL coaches always pick Tebow and scouts pick guys who could never outperform him.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 04:48 PM
So if Orton wins the starting job you aren't going to support the team

I can't even put into words what my response will be. I know I can't watch another season of Orton moping off the field over and over again as we get blown out.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 04:51 PM
28926

I knew that was likely what is killing his value, and why Miami is so hesitant. It's also why we have to get rid of the guy. By the way, Tebow killed it in those situations comparatively.

oubronco
07-28-2011, 04:51 PM
Fox, Doom and Miller 3 quality pieces not here last year. It's a start

BTW, what is the definition of "gamer". Really good at practice or just finds a way when the play goes off schedule?

Who knows if Doom will have an impact coming back from pec injury and Miller was great in college but who knows how he'll do in the pro's

They need DT's and they need stud's on the line or it will be same ol same ol watching teams run all over them

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 04:52 PM
28926

BS. As I showed earlier, Orton's red zone rating is in the 90s with 30 TDs to 1 INT.

Jay3
07-28-2011, 04:53 PM
I had a friend once (not a hater) who went to watch his team play the Gators in Gainesville.

He said they were sitting there watching Tebow in warmups, and they thought he looked really ho-hum, like the trainer he was throwing with looked better throwing the ball.

Then Tebow went out and laid the lumber to his team, really took it to them, in the air.

It was the darnedest thing. For some reason, Tebow don't look pretty. But the chains move and the scoreboard grows.

jhns
07-28-2011, 04:53 PM
Yeah, let's start the guy that can't beat out Orton... OR Quinn.

Championship.

Wow, you sure are making a lot of dumb statements today. He can't beat out the guy he started over? Interesting take.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 04:54 PM
If Orton starts it will probably be the most depressing year in Broncos football history. Even if we win a few more games it will be a season with no hope or interest.

Precisely. Gotta say that if it happens I will immediately go from Fox supporter to wanting the guy fired. Orton does not give us a better chance to win no matter how well he practices. 3-10 last year with multiple chokes in close games proves that. Any coach that doesn't understand that has no business running this team.

CEH
07-28-2011, 04:55 PM
Who knows if Doom will have an impact coming back from pec injury and Miller was great in college but who knows how he'll do in the pro's

They need DT's and they need stud's on the line or it will be same ol same ol watching teams run all over them

Baby steps. This team is starting over . Studs aren't in FA. They are in the draft. Denver will start 2-3 vetern DTs come Opening night and no they will not get run on like last year. Fox alone will take this defense from 29th to around 17th. I'll bet on that

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 04:56 PM
I knew that was likely what is killing his value, and why Miami is so hesitant. It's also why we have to get rid of the guy. By the way, Tebow killed it in those situations comparatively.

Ummmm, he's statistically WORSE than Orton in those exact circumstances:


http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 04:58 PM
BS. As I showed earlier, Orton's red zone rating is in the 90s with 30 TDs to 1 INT.

It's not BS. All that proves is that he protects the ball in red zone. It certainly doesn't prove he scores TDs consistently. I know for a fact he doesn't.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-28-2011, 04:58 PM
Wow, you sure are making a lot of dumb statements today. He can't beat out the guy he started over? Interesting take.

LOL

oubronco
07-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Baby steps. This team is starting over . Studs aren't in FA. They are in the draft. Denver will start 2-3 vetern DTs come Opening night and no they will not get run on like last year. Fox alone will take this defense from 29th to around 17th. I'll bet on that

I hope so, but i'm not buying there isn't any studs in FA Mebane, Jenkins, Cofield?

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Ummmm, he's statistically WORSE than Orton in those exact circumstances:


http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

What exactly am I supposed to be looking at? That page is a mess.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 05:00 PM
I had a friend once (not a hater) who went to watch his team play the Gators in Gainesville.

He said they were sitting there watching Tebow in warmups, and they thought he looked really ho-hum, like the trainer he was throwing with looked better throwing the ball.

Then Tebow went out and laid the lumber to his team, really took it to them, in the air.

It was the darnedest thing. For some reason, Tebow don't look pretty. But the chains move and the scoreboard grows.

Another thing too is that I have notived Tebow is very deliberate when preparing.. I honestly think it has to do with focus or something... I don't know if it is because he is working on certain small aspects or what... but he always looks like he is progressing slow but when it matters most he delivers the most.

I also think it has to do with instincts. I think a lot of guys who came out of lesser conferences than the SEC have bad habits in many ways. They are USED to the guy who should be open being open in games. But guys like Tebow and Peyton Manning coming out of the SEC have instincts geared to playing great defenses.

So it looks like Tebow is holding on to the ball too long.. but it is because that is really how you function in a game against a good defense. Tebow also can afford to hold onto the ball where an Orton couldn't because when Orton gets hit his game falls apart.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 05:06 PM
What exactly am I supposed to be looking at? That page is a mess.

June 7th, 11:18AM

Orton's 3rd down and red zone performance were not strong last year, but in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90.

Plus, Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on). An improved running game should help Orton significantly in both areas if he is named starter.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 05:09 PM
Another thing too is that I have notived Tebow is very deliberate when preparing.. I hinestly think it has to do with focus or something... I don't know if it is because he is working on certain small aspects or what... but he always looks like he is progressing slow but when it matters most he delivers the most.

I also think it has to do with instincts. I think a lot of guys who came out of lesser conferences than the SEC have bad habits in many ways. They are USED to the guy who should be open being open in games. But guys like Tebow and Peyton Manning coming out of the SEC have instincts geared to playing great defenses.

So it looks like Tebow is holding on to the ball too long.. but it is because that is really how you function in a game against a good defense. Tebow also can afford to hold onto the ball where an Orton couldn't because when he gets hit his game falls apart.

They were saying he was holding the ball too long last year in practice as well. Then he actually plays and teams have fits trying to take him down. Meanwhile Orton has to get rid of the ball as fast as he can because in actual games even a bump throws off his accuracy and he has almost zero escapability.

This is what drives me crazy about practice situations between Tebow and Orton. They both drop back and throw from the pocket and people act like that's all they should be judged by. Meanwhile Tebow's strength, mobility, fire, and ability to throw on the run aren't taken into account. Nor is Orton's lead feet or tendency to take phantom sacks. It's infuriating.

Tebow does not need to be the better pocket passer to be our better option. He is worlds better in every other way and despite what some fools think (namely that all QBs need to be good at is passing from the pocket) those other things really do matter as well.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 05:13 PM
All I know is Jake Plummer has been the best QB we've had since Elway and he couldn't hit a barn unless he was on the bootleg.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 05:13 PM
June 7th, 11:18AM

Orton's 3rd down and red zone performance were not strong last year, but in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90.

Plus, Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on). An improved running game should help Orton significantly in both areas if he is named starter.

Please provide some stats not just someone saying it. Also I'm really not interested in what Orton did the year before. How did he do last season? Let's only compare the two based on the same season with the same team. And keep in mind that as far as I'm concerned Tebow's red zone TD rushes and rushes for first downs on 3rd down have to be taken into account. Orton is absolutely no threat to ever run for a TD in the redzone or a first down so he needs to compensate for that by passing for more (something I maintain he sucks at).

At a glance, looking at pure scoring alone we see that Tebow scored a total of 11 TDs to Orton's 20 with far, far less playing time. That alone seems to show who should be our starter.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 05:18 PM
They were saying he was holding the ball too long last year in practice as well. Then he actually plays and teams have fits trying to take him down. Meanwhile Orton has to get rid of the ball as fast as he can because in actual games even a bump throws off his accuracy and he has almost zero escapability.

This is what drives me crazy about practice situations between Tebow and Orton. They both drop back and throw from the pocket and people act like that's all they should be judged by. Meanwhile Tebow's strength, mobility, fire, and ability to throw on the run aren't taken into account. Nor is Orton's lead feet or tendency to take phantom sacks. It's infuriating.

Tebow does not need to be the better pocket passer to be our better option. He is worlds better in every other way and despite what some fools think (namely that all QBs need to be good at is passing from the pocket) those other things really do matter as well.

The sad thing is this all happened last year in training camp. I saw the writing on the wall then. Like I was saying.. MOST QBS now are polished in all these ways.. they are really show ponies. This iw why so many guys LOOK like great QBs in college and when they go pro they have nothing. Like Clausen.. what scout would have said Tebow would be better than clausen. They just can't comprehend it.

Tebow not going to show pony route his whole football career has really helped him IMO.

It's like how people are more concerned with the throwing motion than a guys actual ability to pass. This is what happened with Cam Newton last year. He spent a year at a junior college polishing his throwing motion just for that reason.. and he was rewarded by people saying he LOOKED like a better passer than Tebow and got the number one pick. Regardless of how he actually plays.

QBs are pumped out like this now.. like a cookie cutter. And this is what QB evaluation has become all about.. not how they actually play.. and they aren't allowed to develop their own style of play either. This is why Tebow was so criticized.

I also think a lot of the reason guys are forced into this cookie cutter mold is because they don't have all the tools Tebow does.. so when a guy like Tebow comes along with all his tools they still think he should fit in that mold regardless of if it is even necessary. In the end it;s all about perception not reality.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 05:28 PM
The sad thing is this all happened last year in training camp. I saw the writing on the wall then. Like I was saying.. MOST QBS now are polished in all these ways.. they are really show ponies. This iw why so many guys LOOK like great QBs in college and when they go pro they have nothing. Like Clausen.. what scout would have said Tebow would be better than clausen. They just can't comprehend it.

Tebow not going to show pony route his whole football career has really helped him IMO.

It's like how people are more concerned with the throwing motion than a guys actual ability to pass. This is what happened with Cam Newton last year. He spent a year at a junior college polishing his throwing motion just for that reason.. and he was rewarded by people saying he LOOKED like a better passer than Tebow and got the number one pick. Regardless of how he actually plays.

QBs are pumped out like this now.. like a cookie cutter. And this is what QB evaluation has become all about.. not how they actually play.. and they aren't allowed to develop their own style of play either. This is why Tebow was so criticized.

I also think a lot of the reason guys are forced into this cookie cutter mold is because they don't have all the tools Tebow does.. so when a guy like Tebow comes along with all his tools they still think he should fit in that mold regardless of if it is even necessary. In the end it;s all about perception not reality.

I tend to agree. There's this faulty notion that a QB should only be judged by what kind of pocket passer he is and nothing else. And to be honest I think it's ridiculous to expect Tebow to be a better pocket passer than Orton with only one season under his belt. That's Orton's one strength: passing from a perfectly shaped and long-lasting pocket. It's ridiculous honestly.

Orton starting last year was a long, painful abortion. At least with Tebow we would've had some competitive fire (probably still have a bad record mind you seeing as that defense was soooo bad). Now I'm watching it happen all over again and I want to rip my eyes out.

Garcia Bronco
07-28-2011, 05:34 PM
I tend to agree. There's this faulty notion that a QB should only be judged by what kind of pocket passer he is and nothing else. And to be honest I think it's ridiculous to expect Tebow to be a better pocket passer than Orton with only one season under his belt. That's Orton's one strength: passing from a perfectly shaped and long-lasting pocket. It's ridiculous honestly.

Orton starting last year was a long, painful abortion. At least with Tebow we would've had some competitive fire (probably still have a bad record mind you seeing as that defense was soooo bad). Now I'm watching it happen all over again and I want to rip my eyes out.

This

And we're about to take the two year rebuild.

DBroncos4life
07-28-2011, 05:36 PM
I hate to break it to you guys but there are probably about 20,000 college QBs that would LOOK better than Tebow in training camp practices... Orton and Quinn are not special in this regard. The same was really true of Cam Newton too... he has been regarded as a better prospect than Tebow for the same reason.

It's because QB prospects today are MOLDED to look like this even at the expense of their play on the field. In the end looking polished in practice really has nothing to do with success in games. Which is why Tebow outperformed Sam Bradford in his first 3 games. And why real NFL coaches always pick Tebow and scouts pick guys who could never outperform him.

That's a odd number considering there is less then 500 QB's in Division I schools right now. Do you even know how many college football teams are out there?

Bob's your Information Minister
07-28-2011, 05:37 PM
Not when the two prior years they won the Super Bowl, something your team hasn't done in 2 generations.

For as hard as you try, you really aren't that good at this stuff.

Sorry what, the Broncos won the Super Bowl in 2004? LOL

Last Broncos playoff win was 5 years ago.

You guys are on your way to becoming the Chiefs. About five more years of missing the playoffs under John Fox and Tim Teboner should really start to make you nauseous.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 05:39 PM
That's a odd number considering there is less then 500 QB's in Division I schools right now. Do you even know how many college football teams are out there?

I wasn't talking about JUST this year you halfwit. LOL

I was talking about past QB prospects in general.

My god you are a myopic twit.

broncosteven
07-28-2011, 05:39 PM
Sorry what, the Broncos won the Super Bowl in 2004? LOL

Last Broncos playoff win was 5 years ago.

You guys are on your way to becoming the Chiefs. About five more years of missing the playoffs under John Fox and Tim Teboner should really start to make you nauseous.

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DBroncos4life
07-28-2011, 05:55 PM
I wasn't talking about JUST this year you halfwit. LOL

I was talking about past QB prospects in general.

My god you are a myopic twit.

Oh so if you place the words "current" and "former" college QBs in front of that **** you spewed it would help your cause. Just so you know there are 625 colleges that play football. Just giving you info.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Oh so if you place the words "current" and "former" college QBs in front of that **** you spewed it would help your cause. Just so you know there are 625 colleges that play football. Just giving you info.

The point is there are a **** load of guys who would look better ina passing practice than Tebow.. yet they couldn't do what he did in college.. and they couldn't do what he did in his first 3 games as a rookie.

Playing these guys over Tebow would be like starting Steve Kerr over Michael Jordan because Kerr hit more of his three pointers in practice with no real defense against him.

Eldorado
07-28-2011, 06:07 PM
OMFG.

go_broncos
07-28-2011, 06:10 PM
When the real game starts..Orton sucks.
need to trade orton to avoid QB controversy.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 06:10 PM
Please provide some stats not just someone saying it.

I provided my rebuttal source. I'm still waiting for you to actually provide some stats to back up your statement. You were the one to actually say that Tebow killed Orton in those situations. I was simply rebutting it. Please provide evidence and not some vague feeling of how they played.

And keep in mind that as far as I'm concerned Tebow's red zone TD rushes and rushes for first downs on 3rd down have to be taken into account. Orton is absolutely no threat to ever run for a TD in the redzone or a first down so he needs to compensate for that by passing for more (something I maintain he sucks at).

More myth perpetuation. Orton is slow, but plenty mobile when healthy. Go look at the top 10 QBs in the league last year and Orton actually out rushed 7 or 8 of them.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 06:14 PM
More myth perpetuation. Orton is slow, but plenty mobile when healthy. Go look at the top 10 QBs in the league last year and Orton actually out rushed 7 or 8 of them.

He of the 261 career rushing yards and 2.6 YPC average...

As far as the other goes I can't find those situational stats and neither can you apparently so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 06:16 PM
As far as the other goes I can't find those situational stats and neither can you apparently so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'll agree that you made your statement up.

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 06:16 PM
When the real game starts..Orton sucks.
need to trade orton to avoid QB controversy.

A QB controversy certainly isn't going to be good for this team. Especially for a guy who's contract expires after the season anyway (****ing McD and his ****ing contract extension to Orton).

Agamemnon
07-28-2011, 06:17 PM
I'll agree that you made your statement up.

And you haven't provided any actual stats so the same goes for you I guess. I watched every game last year and there's no question who was better in said situations as far as I'm concerned.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 06:23 PM
And you haven't provided any actual stats so the same goes for you I guess. I watched every game last year and there's no question who was better in said situations as far as I'm concerned.

I provided the link to an in depth Woody Paige analysis of the QB play last year and he came away with the statement I quoted. I made nothing up.

Here's a stat for you: in three games last year, Tebow threw AT LEAST one redzone pick (first drive against Houston I believe). Orton threw one in two seasons of play for us.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 06:24 PM
And you haven't provided any actual stats so the same goes for you I guess. I watched every game last year and there's no question who was better in said situations as far as I'm concerned.

"in his 2 years in Denver he has thrown 30 touchdowns to 1 interception in the red zone and has a passer rating over 90."

and for all the 3rd down crap he takes:

"Tebow's passing stats were actually worse on both 3rd down and in the red zone in the 3 games he started (though 3 games is admittedly not much to go on)."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18219887&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

I still say we start Tebow.

mwill07
07-28-2011, 06:27 PM
Guys, it's time to warm up to the notion that the opening day starter for the Broncos will be Kyle Orton.

I'm seeing kind of a Montana/Young dynamic here...that worked out pretty well for them, I think.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 06:28 PM
I still say we start Tebow.

And I'd be fine with that too if he shows growth in the actual preseason games. I just have to call people out when they make statements that are completely false when they feel the need to prop up Tebow and make Orton look worse than he is. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Orton's game that one could attack. It strikes me as very odd that people bypass those easy arguments and constantly have to go into other areas and just make up things that aren't true.

Taco John
07-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Holy hell it's been so much fun to read the Mane today!

Archer81
07-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Guys, it's time to warm up to the notion that the opening day starter for the Broncos will be Kyle Orton.

I'm seeing kind of a Montana/Young dynamic here...that worked out pretty well for them, I think.


Orton led Denver to NFL titles?

:Broncos:

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Orton's 11-18 record and generally not being up to the task when it counted is all I saw.

And that record could've very easily been worse outside a couple fluky plays and individual efforts by others.

mwill07
07-28-2011, 06:30 PM
Orton led Denver to NFL titles?

:Broncos:

ok, it's not a perfect analogue.

Archer81
07-28-2011, 06:32 PM
ok, it's not a perfect analogue.



We had a DAY of camp. If this situation is the same a month from now, then I will seriously consider bracing myself for having Orton as Denver's '11 starter.


:Broncos:

FADERPROOF
07-28-2011, 06:33 PM
Orton's 11-18 record and generally not being up to the task when it counted is all I saw.

And that record could've very easily been worse outside a couple fluky plays and individual efforts by others.

Like the deflected pass into Stokley's hands against Cincy and the Brandon Marshall catch and run against the Cowboys, hell even toss in the couple unreal grabs that Marshall had against the NY Giants on Thanksgiving night.

Steve Prefontaine
07-28-2011, 06:34 PM
Published Thu Jul 28 6:11:00 p.m. ET 2011
(Rotoworld) According to the Arizona Republic, the Cardinals identified Kevin Kolb as their quarterback priority due to concerns about Kyle Orton on third downs and in the red zone.

Analysis: Orton finished at the bottom of the pack in passer rating in both situations, usually a sign of poor arm strength and questionable decision-making. The Cardinals believe Orton has proven to be a mediocre starter, more of a place-holder than a solution. It's quite possible that Kevin Kolb will have similar issues of his own.

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 06:34 PM
It's a good thing no other QBs benefit from nice catches.

MacGruder
07-28-2011, 06:34 PM
Published Thu Jul 28 6:11:00 p.m. ET 2011
(Rotoworld) According to the Arizona Republic, the Cardinals identified Kevin Kolb as their quarterback priority due to concerns about Kyle Orton on third downs and in the red zone.

Analysis: Orton finished at the bottom of the pack in passer rating in both situations, usually a sign of poor arm strength and questionable decision-making. The Cardinals believe Orton has proven to be a mediocre starter, more of a place-holder than a solution. It's quite possible that Kevin Kolb will have similar issues of his own.

Where do you edit your signature on here? This is my new sig.

TonyR
07-28-2011, 06:36 PM
And you haven't provided any actual stats so the same goes for you I guess. I watched every game last year and there's no question who was better in said situations as far as I'm concerned.

Orton had a 91.5 rating in the red zone. and a 58.0 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8520/kyle-orton

Tebow had a 39.6 rating in the red zone, and a 77.1 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

So Orton was better in the red zone, Tebow was better on 3rd down.

Lolad
07-28-2011, 06:36 PM
If we don't trade Orton he will start and he will be benched mid season. Our FO will then re-evaluate Tebow again... and see if we need to draft another QB next year

Beantown Bronco
07-28-2011, 06:37 PM
Thank you, sir.

CEH
07-28-2011, 06:38 PM
Orton had a 91.5 rating in the red zone. and a 58.0 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8520/kyle-orton

Tebow had a 39.6 rating in the red zone, and a 77.1 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

So Orton was better in the red zone, Tebow was better on 3rd down.

First thing first I think you have to be better on 3rd down otherwise you never get to the red zone.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-28-2011, 06:40 PM
Orton had a 91.5 rating in the red zone. and a 58.0 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8520/kyle-orton

Tebow had a 39.6 rating in the red zone, and a 77.1 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

So Orton was better in the red zone, Tebow was better on 3rd down.

Passer rating does not equate to red zone production. Especially with a guy who is a running threat.

FADERPROOF
07-28-2011, 06:40 PM
It's a good thing no other QBs benefit from nice catches.

Yeah Tom Brady has made a career out of throwing the ball up so it can get deflected and caught by a different WR who then runs untouched for a TD.

mwill07
07-28-2011, 06:41 PM
We had a DAY of camp. If this situation is the same a month from now, then I will seriously consider bracing myself for having Orton as Denver's '11 starter.


:Broncos:

I don't see it changing.

Given the Kolb contract, I don't think Orton is willing to take a pay-cut for more years, especially considering he will be a free agent next year, and will be able to name his price. Orton really has no incentive to take a reduction, and frankly, I don't blame him.

So, Miami won't trade for Orton, I think that after the Bush deal they are pressed up against the cap and won't have room to do the deal otherwise.

Denver won't cut him, because if they do that, they would only save $4m (I think)...rest is in guaranteed money. So, no real significant cost savings.

So, I assume Orton stays under contract in Denver. I think he will start - he always looks great in practice and he looked good at the start of the year last year...(did people forget already how he was on pace to break Marino's passing yards record?) Tebow may be an overall better, grittier player, but I think Fox prefers an experienced QB with a little bit of moxie. Orton will do everything right in practice.

Now, that being said, I think Tebow will finish the season (again), either by way of injury or fan pressure.

snowspot66
07-28-2011, 06:42 PM
Orton had a 91.5 rating in the red zone. and a 58.0 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8520/kyle-orton

Tebow had a 39.6 rating in the red zone, and a 77.1 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

So Orton was better in the red zone, Tebow was better on 3rd down.

Is there a way to determine TD% on those trips to the red zone? It sure felt like we scored more in the red zone with Tebow even if he didn't throw a single pass.

Lolad
07-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Orton had a 91.5 rating in the red zone. and a 58.0 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8520/kyle-orton

Tebow had a 39.6 rating in the red zone, and a 77.1 rating on 3rd down, last season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

So Orton was better in the red zone, Tebow was better on 3rd down.

You can't compare Tebow in situations last year in the red zone when our Offense was basically vanilla and the only time tebow was told to throw was when it was obvious. Red zone efficiency will get better with time and a good game plan. Him being better on 3rd down says a lot about the type of player we want.

This should be indicative of how terrible Orton is, in the red zone he was 38-89 42%, he averaged a poultry 3.31 yds while inside the 20

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 06:46 PM
Orton led Denver to NFL titles?

:Broncos:

I drew the exact same conclusions... Orton is our Montana, Tebow is our Young. Neither are as good, but I think Tebow has the potential to at least be a poor man's Steve Young.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 06:47 PM
mmmmmmmm, poultry

Broncos4tw
07-28-2011, 06:49 PM
Can Orton win us 10 games? If not, there should be no reason to keep him on the team at all. I am not sold on Tebow at all, but at least he has the upside of potential. Orton does not. Even after his "best" year, he can't get to / win playoff games, and imo, never will. And in the NFL, that's all the matters.

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 06:49 PM
Like the deflected pass into Stokley's hands against Cincy and the Brandon Marshall catch and run against the Cowboys, hell even toss in the couple unreal grabs that Marshall had against the NY Giants on Thanksgiving night.

Eddie Royal exploding for 2 returns TD's @ SD in 2009.

Last year against the Titans when he underthrew an easy TD to Gaffney late that fortunately resulted in like a 40 yard pass interference on the 1. The Broncos went ahead for good a couple plays later.

There's a lot more to the games than just stats.

But what did we expect trying to make a backup into a starter for two seasons?

DBroncos4life
07-28-2011, 06:51 PM
Can Orton win us 10 games? If not, there should be no reason to keep him on the team at all. I am not sold on Tebow at all, but at least he has the upside of potential. Orton does not. Even after his "best" year, he can't get to / win playoff games, and imo, never will. And in the NFL, that's all the matters.

I think our FO is doing it's best to make sure we can't win 4 games.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 06:51 PM
Can Orton win us 10 games? If not, there should be no reason to keep him on the team at all. I am not sold on Tebow at all, but at least he has the upside of potential. Orton does not. Even after his "best" year, he can't get to / win playoff games, and imo, never will. And in the NFL, that's all the matters.

Well he did lead the Bears to a Super Bowl in 2005 only to be unseated by Rex Grossman.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 06:53 PM
Right now, Kyle Orton is the most underrated Broncos player... Tebow is the most overrated Broncos player. Orton is a better QB.

I still say start Tebow.

WolfpackGuy
07-28-2011, 06:57 PM
Well he did lead the Bears to a Super Bowl in 2005 only to be unseated by Rex Grossman.

No he didn't.

The year Da Bers DID go to the Super Bowl, he was behind Grossman AND Griese.

Mogulseeker
07-28-2011, 06:58 PM
No he didn't.

The year Da Bers DID go to the Super Bowl, he was behind Grossman AND Griese.

Whoops, you're right.