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vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 12:47 PM
I can read thecumdumpstertokyleorton, that's how I know that Tebow led the team to 25 ppg and the offense performed better under him.

It's also how I learned that Kyle Orton is absolute embarrass on third downs.

(raises hand quietly)

Tebow went 2-12 in the Oakland game
5-14 against the Chargers

(sits back down in the back of the auditorium)

jhns
08-02-2011, 12:52 PM
The thing is, and I've been a big TT supporter, why is TT not doing well in practice? You have to practice well if you expect to play, that's all there is to it.

Dude will have to step it up in practice, and that's all there is to it. TT is a professional, and that means helping your teammates by putting your best effort forward in practice. I've played on many a team, and nobody likes a guy that f's things up in practice, but expects to start.

Of course, AND I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THIS, they've only had a few practices, and haven't seen any live action. Also, somebody reported the staff was telling TT to just relax and play, so it's possible he's just not relaxed yet. And that is pretty important, to be relaxed. So we'll just have to see how it plays out over the next 5 weeks.

Orton IS NOT guaranteed the starting job, he's just more polished than TT right now. BUT - TT will have to start hitting the passes he's expected to make in practice. No coach is gonna start a guy that can't hit the bread-and-butter passes in practice just because he can run around a little bit.

And no fan should expect that either. They should be expecting TT to EXECUTE in practice to EARN THE DANG JOB!

Now, it's possible that TT will shine like gold in live PS games, hit the bread-and-butter passes. But that still leaves a problem where he has to perform in practice in order for the rest of the O to learn the plays properly. Practice is for EVERYBODY to learn the gameplan and execute the plays, and if the QB is f'ing them up, then that hurts the ENTIRE O.

For one, Tebows style isn't meant for practice. They are not in live game type situations. The QBs can't get hit, which makes practice a joke. It may be that Tebow is practicing like he plays, while Orton is goid in practice and sucks wben the pressure is on.

Here are the facts. In live games, the Tebow led Broncos were seventh in the league in points per game. The Orton led Bronvos were 20th in the league in PPG. Tebow had less help from RBs than Orton did.

Now for the, "It was only three games!" argument. It was only three games. Tebow did play two teams that Orton played though. This team scored a lot more with Tebow in both games. The lack of excessive three and outs also contributed to much better defensive performances. All three games that Tebow started saw at least 20 points scored. Orton doesn't have a three game stretch of 20+ point games in his two years here. Only one time last season did the Orton led Broncos have a stretch of three games that averaged the 25 ppg the Tebow led Broncos had. This three game stretch is all from a single 49 point game. In that game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter returned a 75 yard fumble for a TD.

It would be very dissapointing to learn that the FO thinks practices are more important than games.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 12:54 PM
(raises hand quietly)

Tebow went 2-12 in the Oakland game
5-14 against the Chargers

(sits back down in the back of the auditorium)


Orton went 6 for 27 in the Az and KC games.

Apparently 3rd down is a problem...

:Broncos:

bendog
08-02-2011, 12:55 PM
They're holding THE MAN BACK!

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 12:58 PM
Orton went 6 for 27 in the Az and KC games.

Apparently 3rd down is a problem...

:Broncos:

oh, no doubt...but its not all on the QB

our offensive line playing the cast of the Smurfs movie, Mr. Glass in the backfield and having your playbook written down on an Applebee's napkin are all contributing factors

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 01:00 PM
Wow, look how upset you are! Calm, my son. Calm.

As for what you posted, GOOD. I'm happy to see that he's improving. I'd like to see more of that. See, he plays for my favorite team, so I WANT HIM TO BE SUCCESSFUL. Do you really not get that?

I want him to be the best player we have at the position. Doesn't sound like he's been that yet. Why is that so hard for your steroid-addled mind to wrap around?

I agree with you. TT has to get it done better than he has so far from what I'm hearing, and I've been a BIG TT supporter.

I'm fine with TT being a gamer, I can see that, but he HAS TO GET IT DONE IN PRACTICE ALSO!!!!! I just can't see any reason to hand TT the starting job if he's lousy in practice.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:02 PM
Of course in the AZ and Kc games Orton went 28-69(40.5%) for 283 yds, 0 tds 3 ints. So when people tell me he looks good in camp...I just look at what he did late in the year...

I weep for the immediate future.

:Broncos:

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:04 PM
oh, no doubt...but its not all on the QB

our offensive line playing the cast of the Smurfs movie, Mr. Glass in the backfield and having your playbook written down on an Applebee's napkin are all contributing factors

Mr. Glass would be on the QB. That is unless you are talking about the RB that went for 242 yards in those two games...

Popps
08-02-2011, 01:05 PM
Orton went 6 for 27 in the Az and KC games.

Apparently 3rd down is a problem...

:Broncos:

When you can't run the ball, you're consistently forced into 3rd and long situations, and even your 3rd and mediums are more difficult because opposing defenses know you in pass-only mode.

Any QB is going to struggle on 3rd downs when they are consistently 3rd and long... and there's never a real threat to run.

I find it interesting that our best receiver would be "pissed" if we traded Orton...

“Viewed strictly through an on-field prism, the Broncos’ best chance to compete for their first winning season since 2006 is with Orton, based on his experience and production. Yet around town he is treated as if he has leprosy. Callers to sports talk radio want him out of town sooner than later, a reaction that causes many Broncos veterans to shake their heads — just as they shake their heads at the idea of trading him.
“It’s the Tebow Thing,” says leading receiver Brandon Lloyd. “They’ll put Kyle on the trading block because they don’t want to deal with the Tebow Thing. But it’s not going to end until (Tebow) plays. The faster they get this Tebow Thing over with, one way or the other …”
Lloyd paused. He acknowledged he would be “pissed” if Orton were traded, because the two of them developed a formidable bond last season when Lloyd led the league with 1,448 yards on 77 catches and tied for fourth with 11 TD receptions.” – Jim Trotter (Sports Illustrated)

I'm sure that's been posted here many times, but it's just another reminder of how little message board sentiment jives with reality.

I like both QBs, and frankly think both have limitations. No matter which way we go, we'll have to build up a team that can make up for some of those limitations.

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 01:06 PM
Mr. Glass would be on the QB. That is unless you are talking about the RB that went for 242 yards in those two games...

I was talking about the entire season

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:06 PM
I agree with you. TT has to get it done better than he has so far from what I'm hearing, and I've been a BIG TT supporter.

I'm fine with TT being a gamer, I can see that, but he HAS TO GET IT DONE IN PRACTICE ALSO!!!!! I just can't see any reason to hand TT the starting job if he's lousy in practice.

You don't see a reason? The team performing much better with Tebow on game day isn't a reason?

Practice means nothing...

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 01:09 PM
Cito is correct. Tebow just came off his rookie season with 3 games under his belt. These first few practices are basic and if Tebow is having trouble handling the basics at this moment and two other QBS know how to do it (more) correctly, then Tebow made his bed and now he must lie in it. There are enough days between now and the first preseason game to see the improvements. If Tebow struggles with the basics against the 2nd and/or 3rd defenders, he has no one to blame but himself.
I want Tebow in there to start this year but if he is struggling bad enough to be behind both Orton and Quinn then we go with those two until we see the Tebow we saw last year.

Agreed.

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 01:13 PM
That's extreme. A few weeks of camp, a few games and his handling of the offense will be fine.

:Broncos:

Well, let's hope that's the case. If not, will you still be hollering for TT?

bendog
08-02-2011, 01:16 PM
You guys just don't get it. Practice means nothing to Tim's game, and in fact practice HURTS his effectiveness. See, in practice the game is slower than it is in real games. Tim is hurt by this, because on game day his catlike reflexes take over, and he sees the defensive end closing on him, so he knocks the guy to the ground, but then it's too late for the read thing, and he can freelance and get outside so the recievers can break off routes, which confuses defenses, and Tim can complete passes or run for touchdowns. Fox and Elway are CHAINING HIM by forcing him to play like "normal" quarterbacks. Tim's something no one's ever seen. His game is totally different.

Mogulseeker
08-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Cito is correct. Tebow just came off his rookie season with 3 games under his belt. These first few practices are basic and if Tebow is having trouble handling the basics at this moment and two other QBS know how to do it (more) correctly, then Tebow made his bed and now he must lie in it. There are enough days between now and the first preseason game to see the improvements. If Tebow struggles with the basics against the 2nd and/or 3rd defenders, he has no one to blame but himself.
I want Tebow in there to start this year but if he is struggling bad enough to be behind both Orton and Quinn then we go with those two until we see the Tebow we saw last year.

Rep.

I still think Tebow can earn the starting spot, and I still think he can be a perineal pro bowler. But right now, if we trade Orton, there will be a starting QB battle that Brady Quinn is likely to win in camp.

Lev Vyvanse
08-02-2011, 01:19 PM
You guys just don't get it. Practice means nothing to Tim's game, and in fact practice HURTS his effectiveness. See, in practice the game is slower than it is in real games. Tim is hurt by this, because on game day his catlike reflexes take over, and he sees the defensive end closing on him, so he knocks the guy to the ground, but then it's too late for the read thing, and he can freelance and get outside so the recievers can break off routes, which confuses defenses, and Tim can complete passes or run for touchdowns. Fox and Elway are CHAINING HIM by forcing him to play like "normal" quarterbacks. Tim's something no one's ever seen. His game is totally different.

MacBendog?

bowtown
08-02-2011, 01:19 PM
You don't see a reason? The team performing much better with Tebow on game day isn't a reason?

Practice means nothing...

Well actually practice is also the time when QBs develop chemistry and timing with their receivers. If Tebow can't throw the passes in practice it's going to lead to more incorrectly run routes and ill timed throws in games. Practice does mean something or they wouldn't do it.

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:20 PM
For one, Tebows style isn't meant for practice. They are not in live game type situations. The QBs can't get hit, which makes practice a joke. It may be that Tebow is practicing like he plays, while Orton is goid in practice and sucks wben the pressure is on.

Here are the facts. In live games, the Tebow led Broncos were seventh in the league in points per game. The Orton led Bronvos were 20th in the league in PPG. Tebow had less help from RBs than Orton did.

Now for the, "It was only three games!" argument. It was only three games. Tebow did play two teams that Orton played though. This team scored a lot more with Tebow in both games. The lack of excessive three and outs also contributed to much better defensive performances. All three games that Tebow started saw at least 20 points scored. Orton doesn't have a three game stretch of 20+ point games in his two years here. Only one time last season did the Orton led Broncos have a stretch of three games that averaged the 25 ppg the Tebow led Broncos had. This three game stretch is all from a single 49 point game. In that game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter returned a 75 yard fumble for a TD.

It would be very dissapointing to learn that the FO thinks practices are more important than games.

This is the only post in this argument that is based on facts. I would love to see an argument made for Orton, using facts. That seems to be too much to ask from the Orton supporters.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:20 PM
Well, let's hope that's the case. If not, will you still be hollering for TT?


I'm not exactly hollering now. We know what Orton is. We dont know what Tebow is. If he does well in preseason, people will say well its just preseason. We should still start Orton. If he does poorly they will say see? He is not the answer...even though its just preseason. I want to see him play over an entire regular season. I want to get a feel for what he can do. If this is a season of low expectations and its a virtual toss up between the "starter" Orton and Tebow, put Tebow in. He honestly could not do any worse.

:Broncos:

alkemical
08-02-2011, 01:21 PM
Did you ever **** in public?

Like off the edge of a 6 story building?

OABB
08-02-2011, 01:24 PM
tebow needs to improve. i have no doubt he will. however as a raw and innacurate passer he still gives us the best chance to win. why is that so hard to understand?

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 01:24 PM
For one, Tebows style isn't meant for practice. They are not in live game type situations. The QBs can't get hit, which makes practice a joke. It may be that Tebow is practicing like he plays, while Orton is goid in practice and sucks wben the pressure is on.

Here are the facts. In live games, the Tebow led Broncos were seventh in the league in points per game. The Orton led Bronvos were 20th in the league in PPG. Tebow had less help from RBs than Orton did.

Now for the, "It was only three games!" argument. It was only three games. Tebow did play two teams that Orton played though. This team scored a lot more with Tebow in both games. The lack of excessive three and outs also contributed to much better defensive performances. All three games that Tebow started saw at least 20 points scored. Orton doesn't have a three game stretch of 20+ point games in his two years here. Only one time last season did the Orton led Broncos have a stretch of three games that averaged the 25 ppg the Tebow led Broncos had. This three game stretch is all from a single 49 point game. In that game, Tebow scored two TDs and Hunter returned a 75 yard fumble for a TD.

It would be very dissapointing to learn that the FO thinks practices are more important than games.

I see the "gamer" argument, have used it myself. BUT, TT is supposed to be a pro now, not a rookie, he's supposed to be able to EXECUTE the plays as they are designed by the staff.

We'll see what happens, that's about all I can say at this point. We'll see if TT can start to execute the plays consistently.

HorseHead
08-02-2011, 01:25 PM
a couple of things:

stop calling him "TT"..its fu--ing obnoxious...

he may be our best right now, but who gives two dookies what B Lloyd thinks and tweets.., he's a knucklehead who has had one great year, chill on him..do you trust that guy? He's a true Bronco? (Rod Smith, Mecklenberg, Ed, TD, Gradishar et. all)

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:25 PM
Well actually practice is also the time when QBs develop chemistry and timing with their receivers. If Tebow can't throw the passes in practice it's going to lead to more incorrectly run routes and ill timed throws in games. Practice does mean something or they wouldn't do it.

That is true. Practice is important. I should have said: performance in practice doesn't mean much compared to performance in games.

Orton is in what? His seventh year? He couldn't perform better in games than an extremely raw rookie. I don't know if Tebow is the answer, I just know he is a better option than Orton. The facts back this conclusion.

Rigs11
08-02-2011, 01:26 PM
I'm not exactly hollering now. We know what Orton is. We dont know what Tebow is. If he does well in preseason, people will say well its just preseason. We should still start Orton. If he does poorly they will say see? He is not the answer...even though its just preseason. I want to see him play over an entire regular season. I want to get a feel for what he can do. If this is a season of low expectations and its a virtual toss up between the "starter" Orton and Tebow, put Tebow in. He honestly could not do any worse.

:Broncos:

a qb has to produce over an entire season, anytime teams start losing games the qb is the first guy questioned and benched. this will not change for tebow even if he does become the starter.

snowspot66
08-02-2011, 01:28 PM
If Orton doesn't start the season on fire and tearing it up this is going to quickly devolve into a horrible mess. Worse than it already is.

bendog
08-02-2011, 01:28 PM
MacBendog?

sarcasm. LOL

But yah see, Tim doesn't need a playbook, or plays really. Oh, maybe running plays where he isn't the runner. But his game is improvisation. Actual plays hold him back, or actually trying to run a play like it's diagramed holds him back. Tim's gotta react. He's like a tiger stalking a deer or something in the jungle. He has to react and then pounce!!

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 01:28 PM
When you can't run the ball, you're consistently forced into 3rd and long situations, and even your 3rd and mediums are more difficult because opposing defenses know you in pass-only mode.

Any QB is going to struggle on 3rd downs when they are consistently 3rd and long... and there's never a real threat to run.

I find it interesting that our best receiver would be "pissed" if we traded Orton...

“Viewed strictly through an on-field prism, the Broncos’ best chance to compete for their first winning season since 2006 is with Orton, based on his experience and production. Yet around town he is treated as if he has leprosy. Callers to sports talk radio want him out of town sooner than later, a reaction that causes many Broncos veterans to shake their heads — just as they shake their heads at the idea of trading him.
“It’s the Tebow Thing,” says leading receiver Brandon Lloyd. “They’ll put Kyle on the trading block because they don’t want to deal with the Tebow Thing. But it’s not going to end until (Tebow) plays. The faster they get this Tebow Thing over with, one way or the other …”
Lloyd paused. He acknowledged he would be “pissed” if Orton were traded, because the two of them developed a formidable bond last season when Lloyd led the league with 1,448 yards on 77 catches and tied for fourth with 11 TD receptions.” – Jim Trotter (Sports Illustrated)

I'm sure that's been posted here many times, but it's just another reminder of how little message board sentiment jives with reality.

I like both QBs, and frankly think both have limitations. No matter which way we go, we'll have to build up a team that can make up for some of those limitations.

Yup.

OABB
08-02-2011, 01:28 PM
That is true. Practice is important. I should have said: performance in practice doesn't mean much compared to performance in games.

Orton is in what? His seventh year? He couldn't perform better in games than an extremely raw rookie. I don't know if Tebow is the answer, I just know he is a better option than Orton. The facts back this conclusion.

this. anyone arguing different has a personal issue with tebow. based on football, the better qb is Tebow. he may not hit 5 yard outs as well but he scores more.

end. of. story.

keeping stone shoes is delaying the inevitable. i am prepared to not watch many games this year. ortons so ****ing average, so ****ing boring and he doesnt score as much.

wtf?

bendog
08-02-2011, 01:30 PM
If Orton doesn't start the season on fire and tearing it up this is going to quickly devolve into a horrible mess. Worse than it already is.

It's already a mess. It'll be a few years in the fixing. Tebow may or may not be in the picture.

Rigs11
08-02-2011, 01:30 PM
That is true. Practice is important. I should have said: performance in practice doesn't mean much compared to performance in games.

Orton is in what? His seventh year? He couldn't perform better in games than an extremely raw rookie. I don't know if Tebow is the answer, I just know he is a better option than Orton. The facts back this conclusion.

your facts are tainted. tebow played against the woeful texans d, and 2 other teams whose post seasons were non existant.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:30 PM
a qb has to produce over an entire season, anytime teams start losing games the qb is the first guy questioned and benched. this will not change for tebow even if he does become the starter.


No kidding...an entire season you say?

If you look at Orton's numbers you could say wow. That guy produced for his team. Then you look at wins. He had 3. Now lets say Tebow has ups and downs (like any QB with 3 career starts would) but by pure craziness gets Denver to win 6 to 8 games. Would you care that he had an up and down season or would you focus on his getting the team wins when it mattered?

Denver fans remember wins, not pretty passing statistics.


:Broncos:

Dagmar
08-02-2011, 01:32 PM
I'm not exactly hollering now. We know what Orton is. We dont know what Tebow is. If he does well in preseason, people will say well its just preseason. We should still start Orton. If he does poorly they will say see? He is not the answer...even though its just preseason. I want to see him play over an entire regular season. I want to get a feel for what he can do. If this is a season of low expectations and its a virtual toss up between the "starter" Orton and Tebow, put Tebow in. He honestly could not do any worse.

:Broncos:

Rep. (I can't actually rep from my phone)

OABB
08-02-2011, 01:33 PM
No kidding...an entire season you say?

If you look at Orton's numbers you could say wow. That guy produced for his team. Then you look at wins. He had 3. Now lets say Tebow has ups and downs (like any QB with 3 career starts would) but by pure craziness gets Denver to win 6 to 8 games. Would you care that he had an up and down season or would you focus on his getting the team wins when it mattered?

Denver fans remember wins, not pretty passing statistics.


:Broncos:

when people dont care as much about points as they do qb ratings, you cant realky expect it. i for one like winning. i dont care if its ugly.

many people here would prefer to lose pretty than win ugly.

Rigs11
08-02-2011, 01:34 PM
No kidding...an entire season you say?

If you look at Orton's numbers you could say wow. That guy produced for his team. Then you look at wins. He had 3. Now lets say Tebow has ups and downs (like any QB with 3 career starts would) but by pure craziness gets Denver to win 6 to 8 games. Would you care that he had an up and down season or would you focus on his getting the team wins when it mattered?

Denver fans remember wins, not pretty passing statistics.


:Broncos:

yeah and people last year were calling for tebow, did you forget?you said in your previous post that you wanted to see tebow play an entire year, if he stinks it up, expect fans to turn on him and call for someone else.

broncocalijohn
08-02-2011, 01:35 PM
This is the only post in this argument that is based on facts. I would love to see an argument made for Orton, using facts. That seems to be too much to ask from the Orton supporters.

Can a person digress from a year ago? How much time did he practice with hurt guys like Decker when Tebow started those three games? It isnt so much about being an Orton supporter as it is about being a Bronco homer. I want the best out there as of right now. In fact, as a Tebow fan, I am kind of pissed off he isnt doing well in practice. As Vance said before, timing happens in practice. Shooting from the hip works in some cases like his 40 yard run but many times it leads to INTs and incomplete passes. If you can't hit a receiver on a slant pass with no pressure, then how can we just hand him the reigns in a real game? As Tebow fans, we should be asking "What the **** is wrong with Tebow?" Instead, we offer up excuses of stats from last year. Is he hurt? Is he retarded? Who knows and no one asks any questions. We kid about Tebow being "God like" but if you want to go the way of MacGruber and think it is all on everyone else and Tebow is perfect, then we will disagreeing. The thing that bothers me is the attitude of "**** practice, it isnt worth a damn!" Yet, every football season has had training camp and practice in between games. Maybe Tebow is God Like and should just sit out this portion of the season.

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 01:36 PM
I'm not exactly hollering now. We know what Orton is. We dont know what Tebow is. If he does well in preseason, people will say well its just preseason. We should still start Orton. If he does poorly they will say see? He is not the answer...even though its just preseason. I want to see him play over an entire regular season. I want to get a feel for what he can do. If this is a season of low expectations and its a virtual toss up between the "starter" Orton and Tebow, put Tebow in. He honestly could not do any worse.

:Broncos:

Agreed with the bold. But apparently, SO FAR, it is not a virtual toss up between Orton and Tebow. Of course, that can change a lot in the next 5 weeks.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:36 PM
when people dont care as much about points as they do qb ratings, you cant realky expect it. i for one like winning. i dont care if its ugly.

many people here would prefer to lose pretty than win ugly.


Fantasy football is destroying Amurrica...


Seriously. Elway is remembered for superbowl titles. His stats were ugly, especially early on in the career. He won though. That's all that matters.


:Broncos:

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:37 PM
your facts are tainted. tebow played against the woeful texans d, and 2 other teams whose post seasons were non existant.

Umm, Orton played two of those teams. Two of those teams were some of the better defenses in the league.

My facts are facts. They show just how pathetic Orton is.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:39 PM
yeah and people last year were calling for tebow, did you forget?you said in your previous post that you wanted to see tebow play an entire year, if he stinks it up, expect fans to turn on him and call for someone else.


Yes I did. And the type of fans who would be hollering about his lack of "pretty" stats are either 1. stupid or 2. bandwagoners. If Tebow has rough games, but shows he learned from the rough games; would you bench him because of BS fan reaction?

Like oh the horror. A young Qb plays badly sometimes...lets bench him because he is young.

**** that.

:Broncos:

bendog
08-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Fantasy football is destroying Amurrica...


Seriously. Elway is remembered for superbowl titles. His stats were ugly, especially early on in the career. He won though. That's all that matters.


:Broncos:

But Elway executed the offenses. R66v6s', Fassell's and Shanny's schemes. Until Tebow shows he can do that, or until Den's eliminated mathmatically, he rides the bench. That's how it works for EVERY quarterback in the NFL.

OABB
08-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Can a person digress from a year ago? How much time did he practice with hurt guys like Decker when Tebow started those three games? It isnt so much about being an Orton supporter as it is about being a Bronco homer. I want the best out there as of right now. In fact, as a Tebow fan, I am kind of pissed off he isnt doing well in practice. As Vance said before, timing happens in practice. Shooting from the hip works in some cases like his 40 yard run but many times it leads to INTs and incomplete passes. If you can't hit a receiver on a slant pass with no pressure, then how can we just hand him the reigns in a real game? As Tebow fans, we should be asking "What the **** is wrong with Tebow?" Instead, we offer up excuses of stats from last year. Is he hurt? Is he retarded? Who knows and no one asks any questions. We kid about Tebow being "God like" but if you want to go the way of MacGruber and think it is all on everyone else and Tebow is perfect, then we will disagreeing. The thing that bothers me is the attitude of "**** practice, it isnt worth a damn!" Yet, every football season has had training camp and practice in between games. Maybe Tebow is God Like and should just sit out this portion of the season.


heres the thing. tebow has never been a polished passer. hes the greatest college player of all time and we got laughed at for.drafting him late in the first.

he struggled in the intermediate game last year too. he played the spread in florida...

what all this means is no one should be surprised that hes struggling in practice. of course he is. he is raw. he has poor mechanics. is this new to anyone? really?

he scores more than orton. even as a poor intermediate passer. we believe that if he started now even with these faults the team would fare better.

we have facts to back this up.

we also know the more he plays the better he will get.

and most importantly, if he plays, the broncos.will be exciting again. at the end of the day the nfl is an entertainment league. i want to be entertained. i want to look forward to sundays again. i want to score 25 ppg.

i want tebow. and i want orton gone. iys too bad every other nfl team knows orton is average.

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Can a person digress from a year ago? How much time did he practice with hurt guys like Decker when Tebow started those three games? It isnt so much about being an Orton supporter as it is about being a Bronco homer. I want the best out there as of right now. In fact, as a Tebow fan, I am kind of pissed off he isnt doing well in practice. As Vance said before, timing happens in practice. Shooting from the hip works in some cases like his 40 yard run but many times it leads to INTs and incomplete passes. If you can't hit a receiver on a slant pass with no pressure, then how can we just hand him the reigns in a real game? As Tebow fans, we should be asking "What the **** is wrong with Tebow?" Instead, we offer up excuses of stats from last year. Is he hurt? Is he retarded? Who knows and no one asks any questions. We kid about Tebow being "God like" but if you want to go the way of MacGruber and think it is all on everyone else and Tebow is perfect, then we will disagreeing. The thing that bothers me is the attitude of "**** practice, it isnt worth a damn!" Yet, every football season has had training camp and practice in between games. Maybe Tebow is God Like and should just sit out this portion of the season.

1) It might not be Tebow at all. Maybe he looks just like he did playing in those games. Maybe it is that Orton looks that much better when not in live games.

2) Practice is nothing like a live game. The QBs are not getting hit. Games are not on the line. Tebows skill sets are not easily seen in this environment.

3) I showed the facts of the situation. Your argument is based on ifs and maybes.

bendog
08-02-2011, 01:44 PM
heres the thing. tebow has never been a polished passer. hes the greatest college player of all time and we got laughed at for.drafting him late in the first.

he struggled in the intermefiate game last year too. he played the spread in florida...

what all this means is no one should be surprised that hes struggling in practice. of course he is. he is raw. he has poor mechanics. is this new to anyone? really?

he scores more than orton. even has a poor intermediate passer. we believe that if he started now even with these faulys the team would are better.

we have facts to back this up.

wr also know the more he plays the better he will get.

and most importantly, if he plays, the broncos.will be exciting again. at the end of the day the nfl is an entertainment league. i want to be entertained. i want to look forward to sundays again. i want to score 25 ppg.

i want tebow. and i want orton gone. iys too bad every other nfl team knows orton is average.

i wish u wer coaching the team

alkemical
08-02-2011, 01:46 PM
I think we need some TE's on the roster to help out Tebow.

OABB
08-02-2011, 01:47 PM
i wish u wer coaching the team

tanks. mee to.

broncocalijohn
08-02-2011, 01:48 PM
1) It might not be Tebow at all. Maybe he looks just like he did playing in those games. Maybe it is that Orton looks that much better when not in live games.

2) Practice is nothing like a live game. The QBs are not getting hit. Games are not on the line. Tebows skill sets are not easily seen in this environment.

3) I showed the facts of the situation. Your argument is based on ifs and maybes.

My post is based on what others (including Maners) and the media have stated. Practice isnt a live game but if there is no pressure and you get to do the same drill over and over, why is he ****ing up?
Jizz, I want Tebow to be the man. I just think (from what others have stated) that he is not up to par at all. Par is average. He was so gungho in the offseason working out with receivers. I thought he would be tearing it up in TC yet he seems to be mediocre. It is bad enough that Quinn is ahead of him yet hardly any concern from the Tebowites.

As for OABB, you type worse on your smart phone than I do. Hope you are not driving!

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:48 PM
But Elway executed the offenses. R66v6s', Fassell's and Shanny's schemes. Until Tebow shows he can do that, or until Den's eliminated mathmatically, he rides the bench. That's how it works for EVERY quarterback in the NFL.



Which would happen how if Orton starts?

What if Tebow is a poor practice player, but a good game day player? You go with the less able QB in Orton because Tebow doesnt execute BS 7 on 7 drills with a precision of a nazi wristwatch? Seems silly. And early Elway did not exactly execute offenses. He did what he was told until the team was down late and Reeves just let him play.

:Broncos:

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:50 PM
But Elway executed the offenses. R66v6s', Fassell's and Shanny's schemes. Until Tebow shows he can do that, or until Den's eliminated mathmatically, he rides the bench. That's how it works for EVERY quarterback in the NFL.

Actually, Bowlen had to fire a coach for wanting to replace Elway.

oubronco
08-02-2011, 01:52 PM
this. anyone arguing different has a personal issue with tebow. based on football, the better qb is Tebow. he may not hit 5 yard outs as well but he scores more.

end. of. story.

keeping stone shoes is delaying the inevitable. i am prepared to not watch many games this year. ortons so ****ing average, so ****ing boring and he doesnt score as much.

wtf?

Tebow is the better running QB

Orton is the better throwing QB

Quinn might sneakup and be the better at both before it's all over with

Who knows this shyt is wacky

Rigs11
08-02-2011, 01:52 PM
Yes I did. And the type of fans who would be hollering about his lack of "pretty" stats are either 1. stupid or 2. bandwagoners. If Tebow has rough games, but shows he learned from the rough games; would you bench him because of BS fan reaction?

Like oh the horror. A young Qb plays badly sometimes...lets bench him because he is young.

**** that.

:Broncos:

of course they would bench him, you said that fans were worried about wins not stats. what do you think bowlen is worried about?

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 01:54 PM
Tebow went 1-2 in his starts...

carry that over the course of the season and we go 5-11....so we do improve

thats what the "facts" tell us

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:54 PM
My post is based on what others (including Maners) and the media have stated. Practice isnt a live game but if there is no pressure and you get to do the same drill over and over, why is he ****ing up?
Jizz, I want Tebow to be the man. I just think (from what others have stated) that he is not up to par at all. Par is average. He was so gungho in the offseason working out with receivers. I thought he would be tearing it up in TC yet he seems to be mediocre. It is bad enough that Quinn is ahead of him yet hardly any concern from the Tebowites.

As for OABB, you type worse on your smart phone than I do. Hope you are not driving!

Again, it was the same thing last year. Tebow looks flawed and Orton looks amazing. Then games come and Tebow completely outplays Orton. So, again, why does practice mean more to you than live games?

bendog
08-02-2011, 01:54 PM
Actually, Bowlen had to fire a coach for wanting to replace Elway.

actually R66v6s was not fired for considering trading Elway.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:55 PM
of course they would bench him, you said that fans were worried about wins not stats. what do you think bowlen is worried about?


Money, because he is an owner.

If Tebow plays erratically, but Denver still wins. Stats wont matter. Wins = money. Bowlen, despite what some say here is not a stupid man.


:Broncos:

Archer81
08-02-2011, 01:56 PM
actually R66v6s was not fired for considering trading Elway.

Sure he wasnt...*wink wink, nod nod*

:Broncos:

bendog
08-02-2011, 01:57 PM
I think we need some TE's on the roster to help out Tebow.

I'm thinking Tebow needs to pick it up if he doesn't want to to get a looksee as a TE.

Still early days, but these guys thinking they know better than fox who is more likely to win, or not lose, a game is a hoot ... to toot ... or a poot.

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:57 PM
actually R66v6s was not fired for considering trading Elway.

Whatever you say. He didn't want Elway. Why would he not want a Qb that is executing his offense so well?

Fedaykin
08-02-2011, 01:57 PM
We're rebuilding -- I say give Tebow a shot if he fits with our strategy.

That said, Orton is still a much superior modern NFL QB. Just realize, that statement says more about Tebow's failings rather than anything particularly good about Orton.

And, all this bull**** about Orton being the cause of our dismal record last year is the inane chattering of people who seem to think the other 21 players on the field and the coaching staff are meaningless. There's only been maybe 3 QBs who have ever been able to carry a team on their shoulders -- we're spoiled here in Denver because of Elway.

The thing we should be focusing on is developing a QB strategy and sticking to it! If our strategy is going to be pass first, pass often then stick with Orton and look for the QBOF. If our strategy is going to call for a running QB and a run first mentality, then toss in Tebow and see if he works out.

What would be utter failure is trying to develop a pass heavy offense with a guy who's never demonstrated an ability to run that type of offense at any level.

jhns
08-02-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm thinking Tebow needs to pick it up if he doesn't want to to get a looksee as a TE.

Still early days, but these guys thinking they know better than fox who is more likely to win, or not lose, a game is a hoot ... to toot ... or a poot.

Have you seen the Panthers QB situation? Someone claiming the coach knows all, after the past two years, is not living in reality.

Houshyamama
08-02-2011, 02:00 PM
Tebow went 1-2 in his starts...

carry that over the course of the season and we go 5-11....so we do improve

thats what the "facts" tell us

Extrapolation from 1-2 to 5-11 isn't a fact. It's an extrapolation.

oubronco
08-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Extrapolation from 1-2 to 5-11 isn't a fact. It's an extrapolation.

Well extrapolate on my man

broncocalijohn
08-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Again, it was the same thing last year. Tebow looks flawed and Orton looks amazing. Then games come and Tebow completely outplays Orton. So, again, why does practice mean more to you than live games?

Where did people state that? And, that is his first TC so there would be some learning curves expected. He doesn't have that excuse anymore. Yet, so many want to make the excuses for him. If he was to be interviewed and Tebow stated that he was playing like ****, somehow you and others would make an excuse that isn't what he meant.

Houshyamama
08-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Well extrapolate on my man

I think I just like that word.

Extrapolate.

Fedaykin
08-02-2011, 02:03 PM
Which would happen how if Orton starts?

What if Tebow is a poor practice player, but a good game day player?
:Broncos:

We're rebuilding -- we need to think overall team development, not necessarily who is overall better at a particular position.

If we want a pass heavy offense, it would be counter-productive to toss in Tebow instead of Orton -- even if we got a couple more wins because he was in there. The same could be said for the reverse.

"Win now" isn't an option -- McD assured us of that with his bumbling stewardship.

bendog
08-02-2011, 02:03 PM
Have you seen the Panthers QB situation? Someone claiming the coach knows all, after the past two years, is not living in reality.

he knows more than you and skinnyhawk, that's for certain

Nobody starts in the NFL until they show the coach they can execute the plays. Tebow's struggling with the second pro offense in two years after playing in a college system that has NEVER trained a pro qb successfully. Not to say Tebow won't be the first, but you two madden franchise guys are .... NUTS

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 02:04 PM
I think I just like that word.

Extrapolate.

I think I just extrapolated in my pants

broncocalijohn
08-02-2011, 02:05 PM
I think I just extrapolated in my pants

No you Fonecoed in your pants. Don't get the two mixed up.

oubronco
08-02-2011, 02:05 PM
I think I just extrapolated in my pants

Well extrapolate on my man

Archer81
08-02-2011, 02:06 PM
We're rebuilding -- we need to think overall team development, not necessarily who is overall better at a particular position.

If we want a pass heavy offense, it would be counter-productive to toss in Tebow instead of Orton -- even if we got a couple more wins because he was in there. The same could be said for the reverse.

"Win now" isn't an option -- McD assured us of that with his bumbling stewardship.


I agree on the win now; short of a miracle that wont happen. I also agree on developing the entire team. There are alot of young guys out there. Fox is a defensive coach. I dont see the man wanting to throw the ball 65-70% of the time. If our primary offense is a 2 TE set under Fox...that screams running the ball to me. Tebow seems to be better suited IMO to that type of offense.

I trust Tebow on bootlegs and rollouts and getting 2nd and 3rd and shorts over Orton. I also see the running game just working better under Tebow.

:Broncos:

Archer81
08-02-2011, 02:07 PM
he knows more than you and skinnyhawk, that's for certain

Nobody starts in the NFL until they show the coach they can execute the plays. Tebow's struggling with the second pro offense in two years after playing in a college system that has NEVER trained a pro qb successfully. Not to say Tebow won't be the first, but you two madden franchise guys are .... NUTS


This isnt me, is it?

:Broncos:

jhns
08-02-2011, 02:08 PM
Where did people state that? And, that is his first TC so there would be some learning curves expected. He doesn't have that excuse anymore. Yet, so many want to make the excuses for him. If he was to be interviewed and Tebow stated that he was playing like ****, somehow you and others would make an excuse that isn't what he meant.

Umm, evetyone stated that. Were you around last offseason?

What excuse? If he looked worse in practice last season, but played better in games, why would there need to be an excuse? Why would you think that will suddenly change now? Orton has been in the league for years. What is his excuse for being completely outplayed by such a raw rookie? Why would you want him to start over a guy that did better based only on practice?

If Tebow stated that, I may agree with him. I then would point out that Tebow playing like **** is still better than what we are getting from Orton.

jhns
08-02-2011, 02:12 PM
he knows more than you and skinnyhawk, that's for certain

Nobody starts in the NFL until they show the coach they can execute the plays. Tebow's struggling with the second pro offense in two years after playing in a college system that has NEVER trained a pro qb successfully. Not to say Tebow won't be the first, but you two madden franchise guys are .... NUTS

LOL

You have yet to use a single fact. My entire argument is based on facts. Madden Franchise guys? You are the one claiming practice means more than games. I don't give a crap what Tebow is executing. If it leads to better performances by the Broncos, I am happy. You fantasy football dorks wouldn't understand.

broncocalijohn
08-02-2011, 02:14 PM
I guess we should lock down this thread until either a scrimmage or preseason game. No way we are going to agree concerning his practice performance.

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:15 PM
(raises hand quietly)

Tebow went 2-12 in the Oakland game
5-14 against the Chargers

(sits back down in the back of the auditorium)

FTR, 5-14 is 36%, which is a decent 3rd down conversion rate and better than SD's season average allowed and then there's also them being the #1 defense in the league.

Also, Orton went for 1/12 against SD in their previous matchup

Third Down Efficiency 1/12 - 8%

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010112200/2010/REG11/broncos@chargers#tab:analyze

But whatever. :wiggle:

enjolras
08-02-2011, 02:22 PM
This thread is officially when the mane died.

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:24 PM
This thread is officially when the mane died.

It's a reflection of the team's success.

They start winning, things get better.

They maintain the status quo, we keep eating each other alive OR eventually subjugate to sucking.

uplink
08-02-2011, 02:25 PM
If broncos don't look like they are going to the playoffs during the season they should pull Orton right away and let Tebow and Quinn play. Have to see what they have in these guys to make plans going forward.

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:28 PM
If broncos don't look like they are going to the playoffs during the season they should pull Orton right away and let Tebow and Quinn play. Have to see what they have in these guys to make plans going forward.

http://www.onebigdog.net/wp-images/moneyburn.jpg

Dedhed
08-02-2011, 02:28 PM
FTR, 5-14 is 36%, which is a decent 3rd down conversion rate and better than SD's season average allowed and then there's also them being the #1 defense in the league.

Also, Orton went for 1/12 against SD in their previous matchup

Third Down Efficiency 1/12 - 8%

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010112200/2010/REG11/broncos@chargers#tab:analyze

But whatever. :wiggle:

But Orton still looks better when they're not allowed to pressure the QB.

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 02:29 PM
this is like the Varsity Blues QB controversey but less exciting

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 02:31 PM
FTR, 5-14 is 36%, which is a decent 3rd down conversion rate and better than SD's season average allowed and then there's also them being the #1 defense in the league.

Also, Orton went for 1/12 against SD in their previous matchup

Third Down Efficiency 1/12 - 8%

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010112200/2010/REG11/broncos@chargers#tab:analyze

But whatever. :wiggle:

what about the Raiders game? the team all around blew proverbial chunks on third downs all year

RaiderH8r
08-02-2011, 02:32 PM
Are you attempting to say that Tebow cannot be taught how to make reads and plays from the pocket and only ad lib when the play's not there and it's time to "do a helicopter?"

I think he's trying to learn. He can learn to play Orton's style and grow as a QB but Orton can't learn speed, or athleticism, or faith healing.

Dedhed
08-02-2011, 02:33 PM
what about the Raiders game? the team all around blew proverbial chunks on third downs all year

So you want to compare Tebow Vs the Raiders and Orton vs The Raiders?

I seem to remember Orton vs the Raid as one of the worst days in Broncos History.

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:35 PM
what about the Raiders game? the team all around blew proverbial chunks on third downs all year

The Raider game where McCoy ran it or called a screen on every 3rd and long to "protect" Tim?

Find one thread that week not raging about the play calling and I'll entertain it for discussion.

OABB
08-02-2011, 02:36 PM
My post is based on what others (including Maners) and the media have stated. Practice isnt a live game but if there is no pressure and you get to do the same drill over and over, why is he ****ing up?
Jizz, I want Tebow to be the man. I just think (from what others have stated) that he is not up to par at all. Par is average. He was so gungho in the offseason working out with receivers. I thought he would be tearing it up in TC yet he seems to be mediocre. It is bad enough that Quinn is ahead of him yet hardly any concern from the Tebowites.

As for OABB, you type worse on your smart phone than I do. Hope you are not driving!

what's funny is that I am sitting next to my computer at work that has a 46 inch monitor. I just love my droid..

but yeah, I went from a bad speller to retard level grammar.

Archer81
08-02-2011, 02:37 PM
this is like the Varsity Blues QB controversey but less exciting

And without the eyecandy that is Scott Caan's ass.

Boo I say.


:Broncos:

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 02:38 PM
The Raider game where McCoy ran it or called a screen on every 3rd and long to "protect" Tim?

Find one thread that week not raging about the play calling and I'll entertain it for discussion.

if only there wasn't a conspiracy to hold Tebow back we could finally get some answers

this conspiracy goes deep, MAAAN....like Sandra Bullock in "The Net" deep...

Lev Vyvanse
08-02-2011, 02:38 PM
3rd and 24.
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uO3jF6p_2aU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TD!!!!

OABB
08-02-2011, 02:39 PM
FTR, 5-14 is 36%, which is a decent 3rd down conversion rate and better than SD's season average allowed and then there's also them being the #1 defense in the league.

Also, Orton went for 1/12 against SD in their previous matchup

Third Down Efficiency 1/12 - 8%

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010112200/2010/REG11/broncos@chargers#tab:analyze

But whatever. :wiggle:

I imagine theelusivekyleorton is gonna have to go take a break for a bit after this one.


how can anyone argue for Orton? really?

jhns
08-02-2011, 02:40 PM
if only there wasn't a conspiracy to hold Tebow back we could finally get some answers

this conspiracy goes deep, MAAAN....like Sandra Bullock in "The Net" deep...

Wait, you are saying he is wrong?

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:41 PM
Tebow is the better running QB

Orton is the better throwing QB

Quinn might sneakup and be the better at both before it's all over with

Who knows this shyt is wacky

http://graphics.desivalley.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/lol.jpg

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:43 PM
I imagine theelusivekyleorton is gonna have to go take a break for a bit after this one.


how can anyone argue for Orton? really?

...Klis wrote an article?

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:43 PM
if only there wasn't a conspiracy to hold Tebow back we could finally get some answers

this conspiracy goes deep, MAAAN....like Sandra Bullock in "The Net" deep...

Okay, so no serious response?

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:44 PM
3rd and 24.
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uO3jF6p_2aU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TD!!!!

FYI, a Knowshon penalty put them into that 3rd and forever down and distance.

OABB
08-02-2011, 02:46 PM
FYI, a Knowshon penalty put them into that 3rd and forever down and distance.

also it was a broken play iirc.

mkporter
08-02-2011, 02:48 PM
FYI, a Knowshon penalty put them into that 3rd and forever down and distance.

Also, Timmy would've gotten ripped in practice for ****ing this play up.

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 02:53 PM
Okay, so no serious response?

I've given up on honest responses after I posted the ESPN Insider article about the statistical difference between Tebow and Orton....an article that debunked a lot of what MacDoucher and the rest of the Get a Clue Clutz Tebow Clan had been ripping on Orton for

now its just pictures and movie references from me

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 02:57 PM
I've given up on honest responses after I posted the ESPN Insider article about the statistical difference between Tebow and Orton....an article that debunked a lot of what MacDoucher and the rest of the Get a Clue Clutz Tebow Clan had been ripping on Orton for

now its just pictures and movie references from me

Well all you have to do debunk MacGruder is mention the SEC > NFL...

Don't see why that carries over into real conversation.

bendog
08-02-2011, 03:02 PM
you guys just don't see it. Tim sees stuff that nobody else can see. Man, he could just draw up plays in the dirt, and tell Lloyd to go deep and then sneak back cause Tim planned to roll right, and pull the defense his way, but then cut back and sprint back left and nail a strike right to Lloyd on the left sideline as he came back for the ball leaving the corner still covering deep ..... Fox is just too incompetent to grasp this stuff. Tim's been doing this his whole life. Nobody can possibly grasp Tim's unique style of play.

CEH
08-02-2011, 03:02 PM
3rd and 24.
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uO3jF6p_2aU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TD!!!!

Did you see him fire up his teammates? Now where in camp and practice is that going to happen. It won't . Tim needs to learn how to practice better no doubt but when you talk about the other things that Tebow brings game day you can't simulate that in practice

bendog
08-02-2011, 03:03 PM
Also, Timmy would've gotten ripped in practice for ****ing this play up.

If Tim had been in, Knowshow wouldn't have messed up!

Dedhed
08-02-2011, 03:12 PM
I've given up on honest responses after I posted the ESPN Insider article about the statistical difference between Tebow and Orton....an article that debunked a lot of what MacDoucher and the rest of the Get a Clue Clutz Tebow Clan had been ripping on Orton for

now its just pictures and movie references from me

What did it say about Tebow's PPG vs Orton's?

IHaveALight
08-02-2011, 03:14 PM
TheElusiveKyleOrton on youtube...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jt7n6R4ISms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Broncos go 5 of 13 on 3rd down but yet it's not Orton's fault and he had a great day despite the fact that they lost 17-31. Oh, and Orton's a top 12 QB in the league.

bendog
08-02-2011, 03:15 PM
Tim makes the players around him better. He's like Michael Jordan. That's why he scores more points.

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 03:23 PM
TheElusiveKyleOrton on youtube...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jt7n6R4ISms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Broncos go 5 of 13 on 3rd down but yet it's not Orton's fault and he had a great day despite the fact that they lost 17-31. Oh, and Orton's a top 12 QB in the league.

in another thread i was told that 5-14 on 3rd down was a good number

but that was a Tebow stat so I guess its graded on a curve

vancejohnson82
08-02-2011, 03:25 PM
It's something of a mystery why two teams (first the Chicago Bears (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bears) and now the Broncos) haven't been satisfied with Orton's performance.


All he did last year was rank tied for ninth in overall YPA (7.5), 10th in vertical YPA (11.5) and tied for 12th in stretch vertical YPA (13.3). (Note: Vertical passes are those thrown 11 or more yards downfield; stretch vertical are thrown 20 or more yards).


Orton also did quite well in the bad decision category, tying for eighth lowest with a 1.9 percent mark.


This might end up proving the old adage that sometimes the best move a team can make is to make no move at all. Denver might end up starting Tim Tebow (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=13200), but having Orton as a backup plan is a huge plus for the Broncos. (Having him as a starter is probably better, however.)

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 03:32 PM
in another thread i was told that 5-14 on 3rd down was a good number

but that was a Tebow stat so I guess its graded on a curve

It is. 5-13 is 38.5%. The Ravens average last year was 38%, so it was a minorly better than average conversion rate.

Here's where it gets cute:

Orton for the first 3 quarters: 13/22 - 177yards 1 TD
Orton for the 4th quarter in garbage time: 10/16 - 137yards 1 TD

Yikes! Almost half of his production came in garbage time with the game out of reach!

Now would you care to stop being intellectually dishonest and have a discussion like a grown up, or not?

jhns
08-02-2011, 03:36 PM
It's something of a mystery why two teams (first the Chicago Bears (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bears) and now the Broncos) haven't been satisfied with Orton's performance.


All he did last year was rank tied for ninth in overall YPA (7.5), 10th in vertical YPA (11.5) and tied for 12th in stretch vertical YPA (13.3). (Note: Vertical passes are those thrown 11 or more yards downfield; stretch vertical are thrown 20 or more yards).


Orton also did quite well in the bad decision category, tying for eighth lowest with a 1.9 percent mark.


This might end up proving the old adage that sometimes the best move a team can make is to make no move at all. Denver might end up starting Tim Tebow (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=13200), but having Orton as a backup plan is a huge plus for the Broncos. (Having him as a starter is probably better, however.)

Wtf kind of analysis is that? You can't figure it out because of two random stats?

Here is a stat for you. 58 QB rating when behind by 7 or less. 58 QB rating when his team is within 7(winning or losing), in the fourth. QB ratings in the high 90s while on his side of the field. QB ratings in the 70s on the other side of the field.

A QB that can't handle pressure(physical or mental) is worthless.

There is no mystery as to why all of his coaches are always looking to replace him.

TheChamp24
08-02-2011, 03:40 PM
It is. 5-13 is 38.5%. The Ravens average last year was 38%, so it was a minorly better than average conversion rate.

Here's where it gets cute:

Orton for the first 3 quarters: 13/22 - 177yards 1 TD
Orton for the 4th quarter in garbage time: 10/16 - 137yards 1 TD

Yikes! Almost half of his production came in garbage time with the game out of reach!

Now would you care to stop being intellectually dishonest and have a discussion like a grown up, or not?

Seriously, people see his gaudy stats and think he is our franchise QB but he got a lot of stats in meaningless time, especially the Baltimore game.

IHaveALight
08-02-2011, 03:41 PM
There is no mystery as to why all of his coaches are always looking to replace him.

Only for the stat boys.

TheReverend
08-02-2011, 03:44 PM
Seriously, people see his gaudy stats and think he is our franchise QB but he got a lot of stats in meaningless time, especially the Baltimore game.

He threw for 370 yards in our debacle on foreign soil where we lost to 3rd string QB of the 49ers WHILE CHEATING.

476 yards against Indy... if only some of those throws were for points, we'd have fared better than 1 TD ROFL!

Etc

bendog
08-02-2011, 03:46 PM
Satan posses Fox ... it's the only rational explanation.

bombay
08-02-2011, 04:07 PM
Maybe they can get a 4th or 5th for Tebow before he shows he can't play QB in the big leagues.

ghwk
08-02-2011, 04:08 PM
It's a reflection of the team's success.

They start winning, things get better.

They maintain the status quo, we keep eating each other alive OR eventually subjugate to sucking.

Sort of mirrors our political system doesn't it?

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 04:11 PM
I think the bottom line is there is still 5 weeks to go until the reg season starts.

bendog
08-02-2011, 04:16 PM
I think the bottom line is there is still 5 weeks to go until the reg season starts.

yeah, but the thread's still hysterical. still, the liklihood of Tebow getting a second pro offense down in five weeks is pretty slim. And they can't cut Orton after paying him the roster bonus, which they had to do with Tebow not having a grasp, which isn't surprising to anyone, who actually follows the game, because with the lock out he couldn't be in dove valley working on the new offense.

ghwk
08-02-2011, 04:18 PM
you guys just don't see it. Tim sees stuff that nobody else can see. Man, he could just draw up plays in the dirt, and tell Lloyd to go deep and then sneak back cause Tim planned to roll right, and pull the defense his way, but then cut back and sprint back left and nail a strike right to Lloyd on the left sideline as he came back for the ball leaving the corner still covering deep ..... Fox is just too incompetent to grasp this stuff. Tim's been doing this his whole life. Nobody can possibly grasp Tim's unique style of play.

My point exactly! He's uncoachable! ROFL!

MacGruder
08-02-2011, 04:27 PM
Jimmy Johnson said before Tebow was drafted that you'd have to be crazy to draft Tebow because you would have to get all new coaches and players and have to make an entirely new system.

Now with what we have heard about how conservative John Fox is.. you see any of that happening?

ghwk
08-02-2011, 04:29 PM
Jimmy Johnson said before Tebow was drafted that you'd have to be crazy to draft Tebow because you would have to get all new coaches and players and have to make an entirely new system.

Now with what we have heard about how conservative John Fox is.. you see any of that happening?

Of course not how can it when you are 20 years behind the SEC?

Mat'hir Uth Gan
08-02-2011, 04:31 PM
It's something of a mystery why two teams (first the Chicago Bears (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bears) and now the Broncos) haven't been satisfied with Orton's performance.


All he did last year was rank tied for ninth in overall YPA (7.5), 10th in vertical YPA (11.5) and tied for 12th in stretch vertical YPA (13.3). (Note: Vertical passes are those thrown 11 or more yards downfield; stretch vertical are thrown 20 or more yards).


Orton also did quite well in the bad decision category, tying for eighth lowest with a 1.9 percent mark.


This might end up proving the old adage that sometimes the best move a team can make is to make no move at all. Denver might end up starting Tim Tebow (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=13200), but having Orton as a backup plan is a huge plus for the Broncos. (Having him as a starter is probably better, however.)


There is no mystery to me. I think everyone realizes Orton is just good enough to get you to the playoffs and lose in the early rounds. He'll choke. He can't improvise plays with his feet. He appears to the lack any type of special leadership quality where you believe this guy will put the team on his back and win the game all by his ****ing self if he needs to.

oubronco
08-02-2011, 04:31 PM
Tell you the truth i'm not jumping up and down over either of the QB's

TailgateNut
08-02-2011, 04:54 PM
you guys just don't see it. Tim sees stuff that nobody else can see. Man, he could just draw up plays in the dirt, and tell Lloyd to go deep and then sneak back cause Tim planned to roll right, and pull the defense his way, but then cut back and sprint back left and nail a strike right to Lloyd on the left sideline as he came back for the ball leaving the corner still covering deep ..... Fox is just too incompetent to grasp this stuff. Tim's been doing this his whole life. Nobody can possibly grasp Tim's unique style of play.

:notworthy

MacGruder
08-02-2011, 04:57 PM
Of course not how can it when you are 20 years behind the SEC?

Exactly.

Garcia Bronco
08-02-2011, 05:00 PM
yeah, but the thread's still hysterical. still, the liklihood of Tebow getting a second pro offense down in five weeks is pretty slim. And they can't cut Orton after paying him the roster bonus, which they had to do with Tebow not having a grasp, which isn't surprising to anyone, who actually follows the game, because with the lock out he couldn't be in dove valley working on the new offense.

Well done.

I'll also add that this does not preclude Tim from being able to be coached. Good grief.

OABB
08-02-2011, 05:12 PM
Maybe they can get a 4th or 5th for Tebow before he shows he can't play QB in the big leagues.

your whining is better suited for the nba refs conspiracy against the nuggets.

Cito Pelon
08-02-2011, 05:27 PM
There is no mystery to me. I think everyone realizes Orton is just good enough to get you to the playoffs and lose in the early rounds. He'll choke. He can't improvise plays with his feet. He appears to the lack any type of special leadership quality where you believe this guy will put the team on his back and win the game all by his ****ing self if he needs to.

And OTOH, Tebow has to MAKE his case to be the starter, IMO. Well, it's gonna be interesting over the next 5 weeks . . . . .

elsid13
08-02-2011, 05:32 PM
Tell you the truth i'm not jumping up and down over either of the QB's


I don't think anyone is.

Circle Orange
08-02-2011, 07:25 PM
This place is officially out of control.

Even so. I'm headed back to earth, which hangs suspended in space by staples.;D

Broncos4Life
08-02-2011, 07:59 PM
Good god man! Sure Orton-ary looks great in practice and 7 on 7. No suprise there. Sure there is a gap between Orton and Tebow. Its practice. Orton is pretty good at practice. Some guys are great at practice. When it comes down to the real thing, not so much.....

I mean with all the media reports of how well Orton-ary looks in practice, you would think the guy was all-pro. More like all joke. His interview was pretty funny. All that cockyness and now the media stroking him. Come next year when hes no longer a Bronco(thank God,I hope it happens sooner personally)he'll be lucky to make about half of what hes collecting this year.

I look forward to booing this POS. And If i make it to a game this season I'll look forward to booing that POS with some of the posters here.

Agamemnon
08-02-2011, 09:48 PM
Good god man! Sure Orton-ary looks great in practice and 7 on 7. No suprise there. Sure there is a gap between Orton and Tebow. Its practice. Orton is pretty good at practice. Some guys are great at practice. When it comes down to the real thing, not so much.....

I mean with all the media reports of how well Orton-ary looks in practice, you would think the guy was all-pro. More like all joke. His interview was pretty funny. All that cockyness and now the media stroking him. Come next year when hes no longer a Bronco(thank God,I hope it happens sooner personally)he'll be lucky to make about half of what hes collecting this year.

I look forward to booing this POS. And If i make it to a game this season I'll look forward to booing that POS with some of the posters here.

You bring up an interesting point. Aside from the first practice, I really haven't seen reports that have been that glowing for Orton. In fact I'm pretty sure he's leading all QBs in interceptions at this point, and has the fewest big plays. So really he isn't doing all that great in practice and that's his strength...

maher_tyler
08-02-2011, 11:42 PM
Good god man! Sure Orton-ary looks great in practice and 7 on 7. No suprise there. Sure there is a gap between Orton and Tebow. Its practice. Orton is pretty good at practice. Some guys are great at practice. When it comes down to the real thing, not so much.....

I mean with all the media reports of how well Orton-ary looks in practice, you would think the guy was all-pro. More like all joke. His interview was pretty funny. All that cockyness and now the media stroking him. Come next year when hes no longer a Bronco(thank God,I hope it happens sooner personally)he'll be lucky to make about half of what hes collecting this year.

I look forward to booing this POS. And If i make it to a game this season I'll look forward to booing that POS with some of the posters here.

I don't know how anyone here could stand watching Orton take another snap! We know what he brings to the table. Unless we have the 2000 Ravens D and a great run game, starting Orton is just stupid. We need to see what we have with Tebow. In the 3 games Tebow played in last year, he showed us he can lead the team, put them on his shoulders and win a game. Orton ****s the bed. If Orton starts, all its gonna take for everyone to call for Tebow is a INT or the all to failure pressure in the face, scrambling only to run into an olinemen fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position. The fact that if he don't win the job, he won't be willing to mentor Tebow rubs me the wrong way. The fact he wore a Captain patch last season is a joke!

Agamemnon
08-02-2011, 11:50 PM
I don't know how anyone here could stand watching Orton take another snap! We know what he brings to the table. Unless we have the 2000 Ravens D and a great run game, starting Orton is just stupid. We need to see what we have with Tebow. In the 3 games Tebow played in last year, he showed us he can lead the team, put them on his shoulders and win a game. Orton ****s the bed. If Orton starts, all its gonna take for everyone to call for Tebow is a INT or the all to failure pressure in the face, scrambling only to run into an olinemen fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position. The fact that if he don't win the job, he won't be willing to mentor Tebow rubs me the wrong way. The fact he wore a Captain patch last season is a joke!

If we lose at home against the Raiders and Orton's typical weak play in close games affects the result, I expect booing at Invesco the likes of which we've never heard. Honestly I expect a fair amount of booing for Orton no matter what. All he has to do is what he's best at, or as you say "**** the bed".

myMind
08-03-2011, 12:15 AM
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v5NeyI4-fdI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Broncos4Life
08-03-2011, 12:26 AM
You bring up an interesting point. Aside from the first practice, I really haven't seen reports that have been that glowing for Orton. In fact I'm pretty sure he's leading all QBs in interceptions at this point, and has the fewest big plays. So really he isn't doing all that great in practice and that's his strength...


Seriously though. Even with all the picks Orton is throwing in camp, its still all overshadowed by the fact that hes outplaying Tebow. I don't think anyone here is suprised that Kyle is outplaying Tebow in practice. The guy has 61 career starts to Tebow's 3.

Ortons career compl % is 58.

His rookie year % was 51


From what I've read, he has only won 2 games when scoring 3 or more touchdowns in a game. This includes rushing TDs, granted hes only done it 5 times...

Out of 61 games Orton has thrown at least a pick in 31 of them. Out of those 31 games hes lost 16 of them. About six of those games were decided by 8 points or less. In games that he threw at least 1 pick and had no TDs he only won 3 times and all 3 games were with Chicago. Defense....


I know most of us here don't need to see a bunch of stats to know what we have with Orton-ary. I just wanted to point out again that beating out a 3 game starter is nothing to be excited about when you have 6 years of experience and you can't perform well after you throw an INT.

Anyone remember that 1st preseaon game Denver had with Orton where he led that long drive against SF down to the red zone and threw a pick? It made me sick. And so does every other time since, when he gets down there...

Broncos4Life
08-03-2011, 12:34 AM
I don't know how anyone here could stand watching Orton take another snap! We know what he brings to the table. Unless we have the 2000 Ravens D and a great run game, starting Orton is just stupid. We need to see what we have with Tebow. In the 3 games Tebow played in last year, he showed us he can lead the team, put them on his shoulders and win a game. Orton ****s the bed. If Orton starts, all its gonna take for everyone to call for Tebow is a INT or the all to failure pressure in the face, scrambling only to run into an olinemen fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position. The fact that if he don't win the job, he won't be willing to mentor Tebow rubs me the wrong way. The fact he wore a Captain patch last season is a joke!

Word!

How did he earn that captain patch anyway? By drinking the most Whiskey shots??? He couldn't even lead the team to play for respect against Chokeland in that blowout! And like I've heard other poster say, insert him into the starting position against the Fade in Chokeland last season and you have the same result, except 2 or 3 more ints, and a larger margin of defeat. We would have never been in any position to win that one....With that blowout Fade loss alone at home, he should have been striped of his captaincy!

alkemical
08-03-2011, 06:36 AM
Kyle Orton = Keanu Reeves.

2KBack
08-03-2011, 06:38 AM
Seriously though. Even with all the picks Orton is throwing in camp, its still all overshadowed by the fact that hes outplaying Tebow. I don't think anyone here is suprised that Kyle is outplaying Tebow in practice. The guy has 61 career starts to Tebow's 3.

Ortons career compl % is 58.

His rookie year % was 51


From what I've read, he has only won 2 games when scoring 3 or more touchdowns in a game. This includes rushing TDs, granted hes only done it 5 times...

Out of 61 games Orton has thrown at least a pick in 31 of them. Out of those 31 games hes lost 16 of them. About six of those games were decided by 8 points or less. In games that he threw at least 1 pick and had no TDs he only won 3 times and all 3 games were with Chicago. Defense....


I know most of us here don't need to see a bunch of stats to know what we have with Orton-ary. I just wanted to point out again that beating out a 3 game starter is nothing to be excited about when you have 6 years of experience and you can't perform well after you throw an INT.

Anyone remember that 1st preseaon game Denver had with Orton where he led that long drive against SF down to the red zone and threw a pick? It made me sick. And so does every other time since, when he gets down there...

losing games where you personally scored 3 or more TD's isn't usually on the QB at that point. If you are leading the team to at least 21 points yourself, you'd expect a little help from a running game or the defense....maybe the kicker.

I find it funny that you will use the excuse of Defense being why Orton won when he was a greenhorn, but now that he is on a team with a historically bad defense he doesn't get any slack for that.

bendog
08-03-2011, 08:25 AM
this is patently FALSE

The NFL is a different game than college football. There is more speed on defense in the NFL. Offensive and defensive playbooks are more complicated.

Quarterbacks in the NFL can't make a living by running their way out of trouble. Not over the long haul. Not when they want to win the biggest games. Look at Steve Young, you say? Young won six NFL passing titles, including four in a row.



Read more: Analysis: Tim Tebow clearly isn't Denver Broncos' best QB at training camp - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18602797#ixzz1TyYQEF4G
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

There's NEVER been anyone close to Tebow's unique talents. He can succed where others have consistently failed. Do not doubt this!

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 08:31 AM
The author used Steve Young as an example.. but Young isn't playing in this era. QBs cannot stay healthy in this era whether they are in the pocket or running. Tebow would be a fool not to use his athleticism.

Cam Newton was drafted number one overall based on his athletic ability and he played worse as a passer in the same conference Tebow played in. Why aren't they dissing Cam as well as Tebow? Why didn't they diss who ever drafted Cam?

bendog
08-03-2011, 08:35 AM
The author used Steve Young as an example.. but Young isn't playing in this era. QBs cannot stay healthy in this era whether they are in the pocket or running. Tebow would be a fool not to use his athleticism.

Cam Newton was drafted number one overall based on his athletic ability and he played worse as a passer in the same conference Tebow played in. Why aren't they dissing Cam as well as Tebow? Why didn't they diss who ever drafted Cam?

Maybe because this is a denver forum and Legwald is a denver writer and Tim is in Denver......

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/08/02/2499255/cam-newton-is-impressing-carolina.html

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 08:38 AM
Maybe because this is a denver forum and Legwald is a denver writer and Tim is in Denver......

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/08/02/2499255/cam-newton-is-impressing-carolina.html

It's not just Denver writers spouting this nonsense though.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-03-2011, 08:39 AM
From a marketing perspective, Tebow is solid gold for the Broncos. But choosing the starting quarterback of an NFL team is a football decision, not a marketing decision. For anyone who wants to know why the Broncos haven't handed the starting job to Tebow by now, here's why: Coach John Fox told his team before training camp started that "the best players will play."

Tebow hasn't been the Broncos' best quarterback at training camp. He's behind veteran Kyle Orton, and the gap isn't small.


The NFL is a different game than college football. There is more speed on defense in the NFL. Offensive and defensive playbooks are more complicated.

Tim Tebow was a great college football player. But in the NFL, that doesn't count for much. Tebow still needs to develop as an NFL quarterback.

bendog
08-03-2011, 08:41 AM
From a marketing perspective, Tebow is solid gold for the Broncos. But choosing the starting quarterback of an NFL team is a football decision, not a marketing decision. For anyone who wants to know why the Broncos haven't handed the starting job to Tebow by now, here's why: Coach John Fox told his team before training camp started that "the best players will play."

Tebow hasn't been the Broncos' best quarterback at training camp. He's behind veteran Kyle Orton, and the gap isn't small.


The NFL is a different game than college football. There is more speed on defense in the NFL. Offensive and defensive playbooks are more complicated.

Tim Tebow was a great college football player. But in the NFL, that doesn't count for much. Tebow still needs to develop as an NFL quarterback.

YOU LIE! (-;

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 08:46 AM
Tim Tebow was a great college football player. But in the NFL, that doesn't count for much. Tebow still needs to develop as an NFL quarterback.

Tebow has already shown he can play in the NFL. Where were you? LOL

He performed better against the same competition in a worse situation than Orton.

Tebow does need to develop though.. and it makes no sense to not do that and play Orton because the whole reason Tebow was drafted was because Orton sucks in actual games.

If Orton wanted to start he should have played better in the games. Now it's time to move on.

baja
08-03-2011, 08:59 AM
Tebow has already shown he can play in the NFL. Where were you? LOL

He performed better against the same competition in a worse situation than Orton.

Tebow does need to develop though.. and it makes no sense to not do that and play Orton because the whole reason Tebow was drafted was because Orton sucks in actual games.

If Orton wanted to start he should have played better in the games. Now it's time to move on.

What will you do if the Broncos decide to trade Tebow? Honest question.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:14 AM
What will you do if the Broncos decide to trade Tebow? Honest question.

I would be thankful and move on to his new team and try to educate the next set of fans that would probably be ignorant about Tebow as well.

I just don't want to see the Broncos keep Tebow if they don't fully back him and especially if they are just using him.

I might come around and see how the team continued on though. Especially if they kept Orton. I would want to see him tank just out of spite.

Just being honest. :D

maher_tyler
08-03-2011, 09:15 AM
Shefter just reported on ESPN we won't be trading Orton and that he will be the starter week 1. Only way we win more than 8 games is if we have a good D and an above average run game!

ghwk
08-03-2011, 09:15 AM
What will you do if the Broncos decide to trade Tebow? Honest question.

Hopefully follow Tebow to whereever he goes

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:16 AM
Shefter just reported on ESPN we won't be trading Orton and that he will be the starter week 1. Only way we win more than 8 games is if we have a good D and an above average run game!

And if Orton manages to get hurt ahead of schedule

Anyway good to know we've hired another retard as a head coach. Yay!!!

bendog
08-03-2011, 09:16 AM
Tebow has already shown he can play in the NFL. Where were you? LOL

He performed better against the same competition in a worse situation than Orton.

Tebow does need to develop though.. and it makes no sense to not do that and play Orton because the whole reason Tebow was drafted was because Orton sucks in actual games.

If Orton wanted to start he should have played better in the games. Now it's time to move on.

He was given a dumbed down play set giving him simple reads. That is hardly soemthing unique with young qbs, but to play an entire season, he's got to grasp an entire scheme. The scary thing about this is that Alex Smith is still struggling. However, until the lockout, I was pretty convinced that no rookie qb ever had the work ethic tebow has. Now i'm unsure.

baja
08-03-2011, 09:19 AM
I would be thankful and move on to his new team and try to educate the next set of fans that would probably be ignorant about Tebow as well.

I just don't want to see the Broncos keep Tebow if they don't fully back him and especially if they are just using him.

I might come around and see how the team continued on though. Especially if they kept Orton. I would want to see him tank just out of spite.

Just being honest. :D

Thanks for your honesty ;D

Interesting that most here want to see what Tebow can do as well. Also most here hated the draft pick at first.

In fact I was accused of being a front runner by the board owner for saying after the draft that Tebow could revolutionize the position of QB.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:20 AM
He was given a dumbed down play set giving him simple reads. That is hardly soemthing unique with young qbs, but to play an entire season, he's got to grasp an entire scheme. The scary thing about this is that Alex Smith is still struggling. However, until the lockout, I was pretty convinced that no rookie qb ever had the work ethic tebow has. Now i'm unsure.

Not sure what you think Tebow could've done to become more acclimated to the playbook. It's not like he could simulate actual practices with between 14 and 22 NFL players. Reading the playbook ain't gonna cut it. Especially for a guy that reportedly has to do something to learn it.

WolfpackGuy
08-03-2011, 09:23 AM
Shefter just reported on ESPN we won't be trading Orton and that he will be the starter week 1. Only way we win more than 8 games is if we have a good D and an above average run game!

Hello, yard work!

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:23 AM
He was given a dumbed down play set giving him simple reads.

Yes.. that's called experience.. Tebow dominated with a small amount of experience in the offense.. that is amazing! That's the point.

That is really the thing about being a dominant player.. when you dominant player you don't need to make the game complex. All that complexity is used to get an edge. People used ot make fun of how simple Florida's offense looked.. it wasn't.. but Tebow makes it look simple because the defense is totally F'ed.

That is hardly soemthing unique with young qbs, but to play an entire season, he's got to grasp an entire scheme. The scary thing about this is that Alex Smith is still struggling. However, until the lockout, I was pretty convinced that no rookie qb ever had the work ethic tebow has. Now i'm unsure.

I think Tebow just didn't know how to set up workouts.. plus having 2 different Qbs seemed to divide the practice players and screw up the off season workouts. This is really about Orton IMO. He is the guy making waves.

As for Alex Smith.. Smith was not an SEC player. HE was MASSIVELY overrated. NOT unlike Andrew Luck ironically. That is why it will be such a comical disaster if Tebow gets the boot for Luck.

vancejohnson82
08-03-2011, 09:24 AM
it's nice that MacGruber is "educating" a fan base that has never seen a good QB before

hit the bricks nerd

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:27 AM
Thanks for your honesty ;D

Interesting that most here want to see what Tebow can do as well. Also most here hated the draft pick at first.

In fact I was accused of being a front runner by the board owner for saying after the draft that Tebow could revolutionize the position of QB.

Isn't it weird how negativity and skepticism seems to be rewarded and respected... but optimism or a wildly positive view makes you a nut and a groupie or people claim you don't know anything about football or the NFL? haha

Why is that?

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:30 AM
it's nice that MacGruber is "educating" a fan base that has never seen a good QB before

hit the bricks nerd

Tebow is unlike any other player.. that's the problem. Especially in this era. I think the more you know actually hinders you because Tebow's development was so unorthodox. I think McD even fell into this trap and he was pro Tebow. But he thought he could "fix" him.

Tebow isn't really what needs to be fixed.. it's the NFL. They can't adapt to his abilities. McD and Belli have a similar offense to him which made them a good fit. But no one else is capable of it it seems.

BabyTO
08-03-2011, 09:35 AM
Tebow is unlike any other player.. that's the problem. Especially in this era. I think the more you know actually hinders you because Tebow's development was so unorthodox. I think McD even fell into this trap and he was pro Tebow. But he thought he could "fix" him.

Tebow isn't really what needs to be fixed.. it's the NFL. They can't adapt to his abilities. McD and Belli have a similar offense to him which made them a good fit. But no one else is capable of it it seems.

you dumbass mcdaniels is one of the best qb evaluators and coaches in the league. name me one rookie QB that was able to score 7 touchdowns in his first 3 starts

Rabb
08-03-2011, 09:36 AM
so, there are actually people that will either boo Orton or not support the team if he starts?

I don't really have a horse in the race, but come on

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:37 AM
Got to say, MacGruber admitting that he has no real interest in the Broncos should have everyone putting him on ignore. I just don't see a reason anyone would want to respond to his asinine posts now.

TheReverend
08-03-2011, 09:37 AM
so, there are actually people that will either boo Orton or not support the team if he starts?

I don't really have a horse in the race, but come on

I'll bet that Monday opener you'll see/hear thousands of them.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:38 AM
so, there are actually people that will either boo Orton or not support the team if he starts?

I don't really have a horse in the race, but come on

I'm not a booer. Never have been. But man I would be tempted if I had tickets to any games this year.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-03-2011, 09:38 AM
Got to say, MacGruber admitting that he has no real interest in the Broncos should have everyone putting him on ignore. I just don't see a reason anyone would want to respond to his asinine posts now.

Already done. It's been pretty obvious from day one that the guy is a Tebow homer, nothing more.

Rabb
08-03-2011, 09:39 AM
I'll bet that Monday opener you'll see/hear thousands of them.

yes I have no doubt, I mean I want to see what Tebow has to offer don't get me wrong, but this just seems like Punisher level fandom

who knows, I guess I will be drinking a lot more on game days to cope with the behavior one way or another

OABB
08-03-2011, 09:39 AM
so, there are actually people that will either boo Orton or not support the team if he starts?

I don't really have a horse in the race, but come on

not only am I going to boo him, im planning on pulling a jeff galooly.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-03-2011, 09:39 AM
I'll bet that Monday opener you'll see/hear thousands of them.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/up4LTKxe0PA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:39 AM
you dumbass mcdaniels is one of the best qb evaluators and coaches in the league. name me one rookie QB that was able to score 7 touchdowns in his first 3 starts

I think you are misunderstanding my point.

I am as pro Tebow as it gets. The problem is that NFL organizations and coaches are designed to run certain offenses.. and QBs are trained for these systems.

Mcd and Belichick run offenses that are designed after the one Tebow ran in college and fit in so well. This is why McD was willing to draft Tebow so high.

Problem is Fox and other don't know how or don't want to adapt to Tebow.

I think even McD fell into this thinking a little bit because I think even he wanted to make Tebow more conventional - his throwing motion etc. If Tebow is struggling (which I am not at all convinced of) then this is why.

TailgateNut
08-03-2011, 09:41 AM
I can't even imagine how many Tebonites who would jump over a cliff if he were traded.

Rabb
08-03-2011, 09:42 AM
it's no wonder the new Mile High sucks...it's not the stadium

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:43 AM
Got to say, MacGruber admitting that he has no real interest in the Broncos should have everyone putting him on ignore. I just don't see a reason anyone would want to respond to his asinine posts now.

Now I know why I dislike you... You are just a homer..

Nice little witch hunt you are brewing though. I see why you love the people here...

Why the **** would anyone be a fan of this god awful team if not for some player? LOL

You people need a serious reality check. It's even more preposterous that these are the same kinds of people mocking "Tebow groupies" lol

baja
08-03-2011, 09:43 AM
Isn't it weird how negativity and skepticism seems to be rewarded and respected... but optimism or a wildly positive view makes you a nut and a groupie or people claim you don't know anything about football or the NFL? haha

Why is that?

You answered that in our infamous 100 page thread. Herd mentality

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:43 AM
yes I have no doubt, I mean I want to see what Tebow has to offer don't get me wrong, but this just seems like Punisher level fandom

who knows, I guess I will be drinking a lot more on game days to cope with the behavior one way or another

For a lot of us this isn't simply about Tebow. This about a hopeless feeling in the pit of our stomachs when Orton is on the field. The possibility of Tebow only exasperates it.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:45 AM
I can't even imagine how many Tebonites who would jump over a cliff if he were traded.

Cliff? They'd be happy. This organization has fail written all over it from top to bottom. This is probably why their fanbase is fail-a-palooza too. lol

Any fanbases that wants Orton over Tebow has some serious problems. How could any decent fanbase or media even let that happen?

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:45 AM
it's no wonder the new Mile High sucks...it's not the stadium

It's a lot easier to be loud when you don't suck and your QB is Elway. As it is we do suck, and our QB is Orton.

baja
08-03-2011, 09:45 AM
<b>Why the **** would anyone be a fan of this god awful team if not for some player? LOL</b>



I have been a Bronco fan for 40 years so we differ there.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:47 AM
I have been a Bronco fan for 40 years so we differ there.

But that is a good reason to be a fan.

Someone is blaming me for not wanting to be a fan if Tebow is not here.. there isn't a good reason for that. at least not yet.

And I don't mean to offend anyone not on a witch hunt.. but that's just the reality.

Rabb
08-03-2011, 09:48 AM
For a lot of us this isn't simply about Tebow. This about a hopeless feeling in the pit of our stomachs when Orton is on the field. The possibility of Tebow only exasperates it.

I feel you and think I am partially in that camp also...I really have nothing against Orton although I am not sure he is our answer, then again we have no idea what Tebow brings yet on a consistent basis yet either.

The FO muffed this for sure, that is what frustrates me. Right or wrong I wish they would have just made a decision and stuck with it.

I am too much of an optimist I guess...I just can't boo the team. Not to mention, I don't think QB is our real problem so if anything I get a feeling in the pit of my stomach when I see any opposing running back touch the rock.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:49 AM
I really wish you guys would stop quoting MacGruder. He's actually starting to piss me off and I have him on ignore.

baja
08-03-2011, 09:50 AM
But that is a good reason to be a fan.

Someone is blaming me for not wanting to be a fan if Tebow is not here.. there isn't a good reason for that. at least not yet.

And I don't mean to offense anyone not on a witch hunt.. but that's just the reality.

Oh I don't take offense, you are a Tebow fan and you are here because he happened to get drafted by my Broncos. Nothing wrong with that.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:51 AM
I really wish you guys would stop quoting MacGruder. He's actually starting to piss me off and I have him on ignore.

LOL

Control freaks.. gotta hate em.

OABB
08-03-2011, 09:52 AM
For a lot of us this isn't simply about Tebow. This about a hopeless feeling in the pit of our stomachs when Orton is on the field. The possibility of Tebow only exasperates it.

this. i like orton. but I really have a hard time watching this team with him at the helm. its a slow death the way we play. little mistakes add up, there is no heart, and it doesnt feel like broncos football. it looks like the cardinals from the 90s.

tebow plays with fire. when you watch him you feel football. you feel the denver broncos. you also score more and the defense causes turnovers and the fans are awake.

orton makes me apathetic not just to the broncos but to football. ive never been apathetic about the broncos. I used to sleep next to my broncos helmet. I still have an unopened coke from superbowl 32.

now, i would rather play fifa than watch the broncos. its like a divorce for me. painfull and sad.

tebow brings me back. when he started, i was unable to.sleep saturday nights oit of excitement. with orton I had to set an alarm.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:53 AM
Oh I don't take offense, you are a Tebow fan and he happened to get drafted by my Broncos. Nothing wrong with that.

Honestly though.. I do not consider myself a Tebow fan.

If Tebow was not such a truly great player I wouldn't have an interest in him. I'm not religious.. I'm not from Florida.. I have no ties to the SEC.. or even college football or any NFL team. I became a "fan" of Tebow because he is a transcendent talent.

It's just about interest in this amazing story...

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:53 AM
I feel you and think I am partially in that camp also...I really have nothing against Orton although I am not sure he is our answer, then again we have no idea what Tebow brings yet on a consistent basis yet either.

The FO muffed this for sure, that is what frustrates me. Right or wrong I wish they would have just made a decision and stuck with it.

I am too much of an optimist I guess...I just can't boo the team. Not to mention, I don't think QB is our real problem so if anything I get a feeling in the pit of my stomach when I see any opposing running back touch the rock.

Watching Tebow's three starts I completely ceased to doubt that QB is a major problem for us. It was crystal clear at that point. Orton's stats, though relatively good, will never overcome Orton's lack of leadership or intensity. He is a waste of flesh in a Broncos uniform draining every ounce of competitive fire from our team. And no that is not hyperbole.

baja
08-03-2011, 09:55 AM
this. i like orton. but I really have a hard time watching this team with him at the helm. its a slow death the way we play. little mistakes add up, there is no heart, and it doesnt feel like broncos football. it looks like the cardinals from the 90s.

tebow plays with fire. when you watch him you feel football. you feel the denver broncos. you also score more and the defense causes turnovers and the fans are awake.

orton makes me apathetic not just to the broncos but to football. ive never been apathetic about the broncos. I used to sleep next to my broncos helmet. I still have an unopened coke from superbowl 32.

now, i would rather play fifa than watch the broncos. its like a divorce for me. painfull and sad.

tebow brings me back. when he started, i was unable to.sleep saturday nights oit of excitement. with orton I had to set an alarm.

Excellent post. Well said, I agree 100%

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 09:57 AM
this. i like orton. but I really have a hard time watching this team with him at the helm. its a slow death the way we play. little mistakes add up, there is no heart, and it doesnt feel like broncos football. it looks like the cardinals from the 90s.

tebow plays with fire. when you watch him you feel football. you feel the denver broncos. you also score more and the defense causes turnovers and the fans are awake.

orton makes me apathetic not just to the broncos but to football. ive never been apathetic about the broncos. I used to sleep next to my broncos helmet. I still have an unopened coke from superbowl 32.

now, i would rather play fifa than watch the broncos. its like a divorce for me. painfull and sad.

tebow brings me back. when he started, i was unable to.sleep saturday nights oit of excitement. with orton I had to set an alarm.

We feel the exact same way. Orton as a human being may be great. I don't know. Orton as a football player I hate. I don't like hating the QB of the Broncos. It's a painful experience.

baja
08-03-2011, 09:57 AM
Honestly though.. I do not consider myself a Tebow fan.

If Tebow was not such a truly great player I wouldn't have an interest in him. I'm not religious.. I'm not from Florida.. <b>I have no ties to the SEC.. or even college football or any NFL team. </b> I became a "fan" of Tebow because he is a transcendent talent.

It's just about interest in this amazing story...

You're going to catch hell for this post. ;D

BabyTO
08-03-2011, 09:58 AM
I think you are misunderstanding my point.

I am as pro Tebow as it gets. The problem is that NFL organizations and coaches are designed to run certain offenses.. and QBs are trained for these systems.

Mcd and Belichick run offenses that are designed after the one Tebow ran in college and fit in so well. This is why McD was willing to draft Tebow so high.

Problem is Fox and other don't know how or don't want to adapt to Tebow.

I think even McD fell into this thinking a little bit because I think even he wanted to make Tebow more conventional - his throwing motion etc. If Tebow is struggling (which I am not at all convinced of) then this is why.

tebow was able to produce in kyle ortons offense and actually be even more productive than orton. those dumbasses (fox & elway) are gonna play orton again because hes the safest bet instead of giving this franchise a new face and begin a new era. orton cant take this team anywhere. hes proven it last year, hes proven it his entire career. he was born a bum and he will die a bum. he's the retarded version of chad pennington.

he's good enough to not throw 5 interceptions each game and be somewhat solid for the most part, but thats about it. he cant win ****, he cant take this team anywhere. if thats what fox & elway are shooting for then i hope orton fails as hard as possible so that these two idiots get fired again

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 09:59 AM
You're going to catch hell for this post. ;D

Why? haha

vancejohnson82
08-03-2011, 10:00 AM
Cliff? They'd be happy. This organization has fail written all over it from top to bottom. This is probably why their fanbase is fail-a-palooza too. lol

Any fanbases that wants Orton over Tebow has some serious problems. How could any decent fanbase or media even let that happen?

this is a BRONCOS message board, you twit

I'm positive there is a Tebow board out there....and if there isn't, you should start one...you can post and look at horse porn the entire time without having to deal with the "uneducated" people from this board

"its not Tebow that needs to change, its the NFL"

you are a ****ing joke

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 10:02 AM
tebow was able to produce in kyle ortons offense and actually be even more productive than orton. those dumbasses (fox & elway) are gonna play orton again because hes the safest bet instead of giving this franchise a new face and begin a new era. orton cant take this team anywhere. hes proven it last year, hes proven it his entire career. he was born a bum and he will die a bum. he's the retarded version of chad pennington.

he's good enough to not throw 5 interceptions each game and be somewhat solid for the most part, but thats about it. he cant win ****, he cant take this team anywhere. if thats what fox & elway are shooting for then i hope orton fails as hard as possible so that these two idiots get fired again

I agree with you 100%

I hope they are just doing this Orton thing as a little stop gap because Tebow is rusty from the lockout. Hopefully Tebow is in by game 6 at the latest and will look like a hero after Orton's fail.

vancejohnson82
08-03-2011, 10:02 AM
and if you havent watched football before Tebow you should maybe go back and check out a few "amazing" stories brosef

jesus christ, im absolutely disgusted with this poster....says he doesnt watch football, doesnt like the organization, has no ties to ANY football team, yet posts like he's a goddamn prophet on this board

ban?

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 10:03 AM
this is a BRONCOS message board, you twit

I'm positive there is a Tebow board out there....and if there isn't, you should start one...you can post and look at horse porn the entire time without having to deal with the "uneducated" people from this board

"its not Tebow that needs to change, its the NFL"

you are a ****ing joke

Hey.. someone asked so I answered..

Another nice little witch hunt though.

Tombstone RJ
08-03-2011, 10:05 AM
and if you havent watched football before Tebow you should maybe go back and check out a few "amazing" stories brosef

jesus christ, im absolutely disgusted with this poster....says he doesnt watch football, doesnt like the organization, has no ties to ANY football team, yet posts like he's a goddamn prophet on this board

ban?

and he even talks to himself... oh the humanity! :yayaya:

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 10:06 AM
and if you havent watched football before Tebow you should maybe go back and check out a few "amazing" stories brosef

jesus christ, im absolutely disgusted with this poster....says he doesnt watch football, doesnt like the organization, has no ties to ANY football team, yet posts like he's a goddamn prophet on this board

ban?

Why do you have to have a tie to some conference or team to watch football? LOL

Listen to what you are saying.. you people are zealots!

YOU are the fanatics.. that is the problem. You are fans of a team that is garbage and support it blindly.. and you claim I am blindly supporting a GREAT player in Tebow that actually DESERVES support..

Pick Six
08-03-2011, 10:06 AM
tebow was able to produce in kyle ortons offense and actually be even more productive than orton. those dumbasses (fox & elway) are gonna play orton again because hes the safest bet instead of giving this franchise a new face and begin a new era. orton cant take this team anywhere. hes proven it last year, hes proven it his entire career. he was born a bum and he will die a bum. he's the retarded version of chad pennington.

he's good enough to not throw 5 interceptions each game and be somewhat solid for the most part, but thats about it. he cant win ****, he cant take this team anywhere. if thats what fox & elway are shooting for then i hope orton fails as hard as possible so that these two idiots get fired again

If the defense can learn how to produce 3 and outs, Orton may have a chance to succeed...

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 10:07 AM
and he even talks to himself... oh the humanity! :yayaya:

People can't handle the truth...

baja
08-03-2011, 10:09 AM
Why? haha

Because you admitted you really do not know much about the SEC which was the bases for your tebow arguments in the 100 page thread.

strafen
08-03-2011, 10:13 AM
If the defense can learn how to produce 3 and outs, and score Orton may have a chance to succeed...

Fixed

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 10:13 AM
Because you admitted you really do not know much about the SEC which was the bases for your tebow arguments in the 100 page thread.

Why do you have to have ties to be knowledgeable about something?

If I had ties then someone could say I am biased because I lack objectivity.

That's my point.. I have no bias towards any teams, conferences or even players.

I am just objectively looking at everything. I moved around A LOT. So I had no ties to anything really.. and I don't even understand "fanaticism" towards teams or players.

This is why I think it's so hilarious when people act as if I am some Tebow groupie... simply because I think he is greatness.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 10:20 AM
Fixed

Your fix involves an oxymoron unfortunately.

baja
08-03-2011, 10:20 AM
Why do you have to have ties to be knowledgeable about something?

If I had ties then someone could say I am biased because I lack objectivity.

That's my point.. I have no bias towards any teams, conferences or even players.

I am just objectively looking at everything. I moved around A LOT. So I had no ties to anything really.. and I don't even understand "fanaticism" towards teams or players.

This is why I think it's so hilarious when people act as if I am some Tebow groupie... simply because I think he is greatness.

OK I get your point.

Dedhed
08-03-2011, 10:29 AM
If the defense can learn how to produce 3 and outs, Orton may have a chance to succeed...

I think Tebow's greatest asset last year was his ability to inspire the defense; they were noticeably inspired by both Tebow's attitude and play.

With Orton the defense seemed demoralized and lackluster. With Tebow I thought it was clear that the defense (and the team in general) had the belief that Tebow gave them a chance regardless of the current score.

Anyone will fight harder if all hope is not lost. With Orton there was a sense of resignation when things weren't going well. That feeling was very different with Tebow, and I thought the passion with which the defense played was at a different level when Tebow was the starter.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 10:32 AM
I think Tebow's greatest asset last year was his ability to inspire the defense; they were noticeably inspired by both Tebow's attitude and play.

With Orton the defense seemed demoralized and lackluster. With Tebow I thought it was clear that the defense (and the team in general) had the belief that Tebow gave them a chance regardless of the current score.

Anyone will fight harder if all hope is not lost. With Orton there was a sense of resignation when things weren't going well. That feeling was very different with Tebow, and I thought the passion with which the defense played was at a different level when Tebow was the starter.

Like everything else about Tebow vs. Orton all of this readily apparent to anyone with eyes and a brain.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 10:35 AM
I think Tebow's greatest asset last year was his ability to inspire the defense; they were noticeably inspired by both Tebow's attitude and play.



I thought someone on defense said this after that stink about Tebow getting the bruise in his rib area in that preseason game. One of the defenders said when you see your QB putting everything on the line for you you feed off that as a defender because a lot of QBs don't play with that fire. Hint?

Dedhed
08-03-2011, 10:35 AM
Like everything else about Tebow vs. Orton all of this readily apparent to anyone with eyes and a brain.

That's the problem with common sense. It's all too uncommon.

Rigs11
08-03-2011, 10:37 AM
this. i like orton. but I really have a hard time watching this team with him at the helm. its a slow death the way we play. little mistakes add up, there is no heart, and it doesnt feel like broncos football. it looks like the cardinals from the 90s.

tebow plays with fire. when you watch him you feel football. you feel the denver broncos. you also score more and the defense causes turnovers and the fans are awake.

orton makes me apathetic not just to the broncos but to football. ive never been apathetic about the broncos. I used to sleep next to my broncos helmet. I still have an unopened coke from superbowl 32.

now, i would rather play fifa than watch the broncos. its like a divorce for me. painfull and sad.

tebow brings me back. when he started, i was unable to.sleep saturday nights oit of excitement. with orton I had to set an alarm.

i still have a couple of those cokes.And an unopened wheaties box.

OrangeSe7en
08-03-2011, 10:43 AM
Wait until they're allowed to actually tackle Orton. I guess people are forgetting that's a big part of tackle football.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 10:47 AM
Wait until they're allowed to actually tackle Orton. I guess people are forgetting that's a big part of tackle football.

People are forgetting a lot of things apparently. The people in charge most of all...

baja
08-03-2011, 11:02 AM
People are forgetting a lot of things apparently. The people in charge most of all...

Or maybe we are only a few days into training camp and most everyone here is making huge assumptions?

I was just a couple of days ago all here said we were doomed at DT now with a couple of signings all of a sudden everyone agrees we are solid on D. Humorous really

Dedhed
08-03-2011, 11:06 AM
Or maybe we are only a few days into training camp and most everyone here is making huge assumptions?


On the OM? Never!

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Or maybe we are only a few days into training camp and most everyone here is making huge assumptions?


If we weren't going off a Schefter report, I'd agree. But when it comes to him reporting on the Broncos, he's pretty much always right.

baja
08-03-2011, 11:23 AM
If we weren't going off a Schefter report, I'd agree. But when it comes to him reporting on the Broncos, he's pretty much always right.

I doubt if even Fox/Elway know who will start game 1 at this point. Unlike people here they are smart enough to know there is a lot to be reveled in the next few weeks.

But carry on with the panic it's fun to watch.

broncocalijohn
08-03-2011, 11:25 AM
Honestly though.. I do not consider myself a Tebow fan.

If Tebow was not such a truly great player I wouldn't have an interest in him. I'm not religious.. I'm not from Florida.. I have no ties to the SEC.. or even college football or any NFL team. I became a "fan" of Tebow because he is a transcendent talent.

It's just about interest in this amazing story...

No! Not macgruder being an apologetic human for Tebow! Here is proof positive why. Posters can't stand you. You are so full of **** more than this side of Bronco Warrior. Dude, you are here beccause of Tebow and no one else. You even admit it on this page. ****ing moron.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 11:28 AM
I doubt if even Fox/Elway know who will start game 1 at this point. Unlike people here they are smart enough to know there is a lot to be reveled in the next few weeks.

But carry on with the panic it's fun to watch.

I hope you are right. But it's hard to ignore a Schefter report.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 11:29 AM
No! Not macgruder being an apologetic human for Tebow! Here is proof positive why. Posters can't stand you. You are so full of **** more than this side of Bronco Warrior. Dude, you are here beccause of Tebow and no one else. You even admit it on this page. ****ing moron.

What is wrong with that?

Is it better to be here because I am a Broncos homer?

Do you know what a witch hunt is?

Tebow has nothing to apologize for. He had the best performance by a rookie QB in the time he was given.

If people were not blinded by their homerism/small mindedness I wouldn't have to explain it to people.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 11:30 AM
No! Not macgruder being an apologetic human for Tebow! Here is proof positive why. Posters can't stand you. You are so full of **** more than this side of Bronco Warrior. Dude, you are here beccause of Tebow and no one else. You even admit it on this page. ****ing moron.

Gah! Stop quoting him!

My eyes!!!!

baja
08-03-2011, 11:34 AM
I hope you are right. But it's hard to ignore a Schefter report.

Schefter's inside track to Dove Valley ended when Shanny left. Even if it didn't how can he know what even the HC doesn't know at this time?

bendog
08-03-2011, 11:51 AM
Well, if the difference between Orton's performance and Tebow's is as great as is being reported both in the media and people at camp, it's less "news" than "observation of the obvious." Elway's hands down the best ever to be able to take a play that isn't going anywhere because it was called against the wrong defense, but even he was only making a few of those plays a game.

broncocalijohn
08-03-2011, 11:51 AM
Macgruber, when you tell us that you are not a tebow fanatic, you are being dishonest and it will be hard for anyone to believe anything you say. Being a fan of the broncos doesn't mean you agree with everything the front office or head coach tells us. We let Popps be that puppet. I have changed courses of being a McD supporter to seeing his huge mistakes and became one of his biggest haters. I like to go in with half full attitude and adjust it as time and situations arise. You can't fault Tebow for anything and that is where your credibility is shot. You are a blinded homer and those are the worst in a fan because logic has no business in your opinion.

Jimmy
08-03-2011, 11:57 AM
No! Not macgruder being an apologetic human for Tebow! Here is proof positive why. Posters can't stand you. You are so full of **** more than this side of Bronco Warrior. Dude, you are here beccause of Tebow and no one else. You even admit it on this page. ****ing moron.

Ignore feature pretty crazy.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 11:58 AM
Macgruber, when you tell us that you are not a tebow fanatic, you are being dishonest and it will be hard for anyone to believe anything you say.

You are projecting your own BS on me.

If people weren't so vastly underrating Tebow then it wouldn't appear that way. You aren't considering context. it's that simple. I ahve never said Tebow is perfect.. far from it. But the thing is that he plays the game in such a way that is ahead of it's time. The NFL is behind the time sin the QB department. They are living in a past era that is no longer relevant. Tebow just stumbled on this by accident and through sheer will. He's not perfect.. but that's the beauty of it.. he doesn't have to be.

Being a fan of the broncos doesn't mean you agree with everything the front office or head coach tells us. We let Popps be that puppet. I have changed courses of being a McD supporter to seeing his huge mistakes and became one of his biggest haters. I like to go in with half full attitude and adjust it as time and situations arise. You can't fault Tebow for anything and that is where your credibility is shot. You are a blinded homer and those are the worst in a fan because logic has no business in your opinion.

Again.. homer fans calling Tebow groupies biased is preposterous.. half these dip****s are touting Orton as if he has a chance of hell of doing anything.. that should tell you all you need to know.

Your own issues cause you to witch hunt people who appear to have the same issues you do.

It's like guy beating up gay people because he has his own homosexual desires. lol

bendog
08-03-2011, 12:01 PM
it's true: rodgers and manning and brees are all relics about to be replaced a new breed of quarterbacks.

baja
08-03-2011, 12:04 PM
it's true: rodgers and manning and brees are all relics about to be replaced a new breed of quarterbacks.

Two of those three are Tebowisk and the other (Manning) has the same work ethic

broncocalijohn
08-03-2011, 12:05 PM
Well, I tried calm and reasoning with him.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 12:09 PM
it's true: rodgers and manning and brees are all relics about to be replaced a new breed of quarterbacks.

Mike Vick outplayed all those guys. Pocket QBs cannot be protected in this era. I think running Qbs actually help to protect themselves.

The QB position is the only position not to advance athletically along with the rest of the NFL.

If the refs didn't protect pocket QBs to maintain the NFL of the past this would be even more obvious.

TailgateNut
08-03-2011, 12:21 PM
Well, I tried calm and reasoning with him.

I tried that with the stupid tebonite biatch sitting next to me at the last game last year who keep screaming and yelling when we had the ball. Dumbass wench replied: "I can't control myself, I'm just sooo exited".

There's a pattern!

TheReverend
08-03-2011, 12:23 PM
Mike Vick outplayed all those guys. Pocket QBs cannot be protected in this era. I think running Qbs actually help to protect themselves.

The QB position is the only position not to advance athletically along with the rest of the NFL.

If the refs didn't protect pocket QBs to maintain the NFL of the past this would be even more obvious.

http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

In 13 years Manning has never missed a start (probably about to change this year).

In only 8 seasons, Mike Vick has played all 16 games once.

bendog
08-03-2011, 12:34 PM
Mike Vick outplayed all those guys. Pocket QBs cannot be protected in this era. I think running Qbs actually help to protect themselves.

The QB position is the only position not to advance athletically along with the rest of the NFL.

If the refs didn't protect pocket QBs to maintain the NFL of the past this would be even more obvious.

Absolutely, Vick suffers fewer injuries than guys like Rogers and Brees. It's statisitcally proven. No one doubts this.

Dedhed
08-03-2011, 12:36 PM
I tried that with the stupid tebonite biatch sitting next to me at the last game last year who keep screaming and yelling when we had the ball. Dumbass wench replied: "I can't control myself, I'm just sooo exited".

There's a pattern!

Imagine the nerve of someone cheering for their team at a game. Awful!

Dedhed
08-03-2011, 12:38 PM
Mike Vick outplayed all those guys.

I think Vick brings up an interesting comparison. Kolb beat out Vick in Camp, but I think it's fairly obvious that there's no way Kolb would have won as many games as Vick did.

TailgateNut
08-03-2011, 12:47 PM
Imagine the nerve of someone cheering for their team at a game. Awful!


Imagine the lack of intelligence to make a bunch of noise when the offense is in control of the rock.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 12:48 PM
http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

In 13 years Manning has never missed a start (probably about to change this year).

In only 8 seasons, Mike Vick has played all 16 games once.

He also only has one championship and is arguably the greatest pocket passer ever.

He's considered a regular season QB by many.

Manning is also so durable that he is immobile. That is not the prototype for this era. He is also maybe the only guy in the NFL that can take the punishment and still deliver the ball well.

And the other thing is that running QBs have not been used well.. and Vick is not the prototype either. He is too extreme the other way. This is why Tebow is superior and yet no one realized it.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 12:49 PM
I think Vick brings up an interesting comparison. Kolb beat out Vick in Camp, but I think it's fairly obvious that there's no way Kolb would have won as many games as Vick did.

Absolutely. Great point. Orton probably would have beat Vick in training camp too. ANY pure pocket QB likely would

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 12:51 PM
Absolutely, Vick suffers fewer injuries than guys like Rogers and Brees. It's statisitcally proven. No one doubts this.

Again.. Vick is not the prototype either... he is too small. Doesn't matter how fast you are you will get hit.

Matt Stafford is a pocket QB and has been injured his entire career.

TheReverend
08-03-2011, 12:52 PM
He also only has one championship and is arguably the greatest pocket passer ever.

He's considered a regular season QB by many.

Manning is also so durable that he is immobile. That is not the prototype for this era. He is also maybe the only guy in the NFL that can take the punishment and still deliver the ball well.

And the other thing is that running QBs have not been used well.. and Vick is not the prototype either. He is too extreme the other way. This is why Tebow is superior and yet no one realized it.

Totally true.

I mean the Colts offense has been so poor with Manning at the helm.

bendog
08-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Again.. Vick is not the prototype either... he is too small. Doesn't matter how fast you are you will get hit.

Matt Stafford is a pocket QB and has been injured his entire career.

hey, YOU are the one who asserted vick got hurt less. You're the everready bunny, dude, I give you cred for that. But don't try spinning out of your idiot notions once you've been outed.

And Orton probably would have beat out vick last year, as vick had that prison thing. Vick's back to playing at the level he played before jail. But he's still an injury magnet, as Tebow would be if he tries running more than a few scrambles and out of bounds or feet first. He's not "reinveinting" the qb position. That **** went out with "josh."

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Totally true.

I mean the Colts offense has been so poor with Manning at the helm.

Where are the dominant QBs in this era? There are a lot of good ones but no one has separated themselves from the pack.

It's not about numbers either.. at least surface numbers. That's the issue.

In this era it's about the defenses even more so than in the past.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 01:01 PM
hey, YOU are the one who asserted vick got hurt less.

No I didn't! I siad running Qbs were more successful if used properly. Vick is too small and not the brigthest bulb.. and is not being used well.

My point was that IF running QBs are used well they will be both relatively more successful and not get injured the same or less than pocket QBs. The point is NO QBs can be protected. And they are getting hurt and not effective offensively. Certainly not dominant

You're the everready bunny, dude, I give you cred for that. But don't try spinning out of your idiot notions once you've been outed.

You are doing what you guys always do and knee jerking and making a strawman argument that isn't the one I actually have...

And Orton probably would have beat out vick last year, as vick had that prison thing. Vick's back to playing at the level he played before jail. But he's still an injury magnet, as Tebow would be if he tries running more than a few scrambles and out of bounds or feet first. He's not "reinveinting" the qb position. That **** went out with "josh."

But ALL QBs are injury magnets.. and I think the injuries and hits they take running are LESS dangerous than in the pocket.. Tebow had his worst injury in college in the pocket.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 01:04 PM
hey, YOU are the one who asserted vick got hurt less. You're the everready bunny, dude, I give you cred for that. But don't try spinning out of your idiot notions once you've been outed.

And Orton probably would have beat out vick last year, as vick had that prison thing. Vick's back to playing at the level he played before jail. But he's still an injury magnet, as Tebow would be if he tries running more than a few scrambles and out of bounds or feet first. He's not "reinveinting" the qb position. That **** went out with "josh."

Vick has never played at the level he played last year. Not even close. Just saying.

Agamemnon
08-03-2011, 01:05 PM
http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

In 13 years Manning has never missed a start (probably about to change this year).

In only 8 seasons, Mike Vick has played all 16 games once.

To be fair, Manning is kind of a freak with that quick release of his. The guy is nearly impossible to sack even when his line sucks. I mean seriously, how many hits does he even take in a game? Six?

Blueflame
08-03-2011, 01:54 PM
Imagine the nerve of someone cheering for their team at a game. Awful!

I thought home game etiquette was to make as much noise as possible when the other team has the ball; making it difficult for them to hear their signals, etc. Yeah you're supposed to cheer for the home team after they've made a good play, but not while they're trying to set up the play or execute it.

TheReverend
08-03-2011, 02:03 PM
Where are the dominant QBs in this era? There are a lot of good ones but no one has separated themselves from the pack.

It's not about numbers either.. at least surface numbers. That's the issue.

In this era it's about the defenses even more so than in the past.

http://newsesource.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Peyton-Manning.jpg

http://everyjoe.com/files/144/2008/01/tom-brady.jpg

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 02:13 PM
Brady has Bellichick, his defenses and the best protection provided by Belli that no other coach can provide.

Peyton has one championship. In another era I think he would have much more. With the parity now he should have much more.

The parity is likely why Bellichick stands out so much in this era.

bowtown
08-03-2011, 02:21 PM
http://newsesource.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Peyton-Manning.jpg

http://everyjoe.com/files/144/2008/01/tom-brady.jpg

Both probably in the conversation for top 10 GOAT.

bowtown
08-03-2011, 02:21 PM
Brady has Bellichick, his defenses and the best protection provided by Belli that no other coach can provide.

Peyton has one championship. In another era I think he would have much more. With the parity now he should have much more.

The parity is likely why Bellichick stands out so much in this era.

You can go through every QB in history and make excuses.

TheReverend
08-03-2011, 02:24 PM
Both probably in the conversation for top 10 GOAT.

At LEAST. They'll probably both go down in extensive arguments over who the GOAT of those two was.

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 02:26 PM
Both probably in the conversation for top 10 GOAT.

Ben Rothlisberger has as many championships as they average together.. why isn't he on your list?

MacGruder
08-03-2011, 02:28 PM
At LEAST. They'll probably both go down in extensive arguments over who the GOAT of those two was.

If Bellchick wasn't Brady's coach would he do the same? What if Brady was on the Colts and Peyton was on the Pats? Then what happens?

extralife
08-03-2011, 02:29 PM
I don't even think you know what you're trying to argue any more